Commitments that come before personal happiness?

[Sputterduck]

So it doesn't make you happy to contribute and live your life in a way that makes sense for you? Are you not happy to serve?

 

You are not being forced to live in a way that you find miserable...

 

I just don't believe you don't find meaning and happiness in your life. No offense, but I don't. :)

 

Even Mother Teresa, no matter what she felt 'called' to do, said she found joy in her life's work.

 

I *could* live in the States making 50 dollars an hour. I could have just about anything I want. I could give my son just about anything he wants. We could take great vacations every year and have all the latest stuff and spend all my free time playing and hanging with people doing fun things. I could make every move based on whether it makes me happy.

 

Instead I am moving into a place with no toilet, no washing machine, no dishwasher, no fridge, no potable water, no electricity, no gas, no air conditioning, no heat, no running water, no shower, etc. The toilet and electricity and running water are a matter of time. We will have that eventually. The water won't ever be potable, though. Living like that isn't for grins and giggles. I promise.

 

I don't enjoy living like that. I don't enjoy many of the things down here. I would love to be able to shower in clean water. Oh how I miss that. I would love to not have to worry about lice. Most of our kids are crawling with it. I could just snap my fingers and live easier without all these worries. But I don't. Why? Because it's not about my own happiness.

 

I have found happiness in my work. In fact, I am profoundly happy. I had no idea it would turn out that way. I came here to do something *other* than live my life for myself. Something *other* than spend 80 years pursuing my own happiness. Along the way, I found happiness, but that wasn't my reason for being here and it never will be.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Sputterduck

[LibraryLover]

I *could* live in the States making 50 dollars an hour. I could have just about anything I want. I could give my son just about anything he wants. We could take great vacations every year and have all the latest stuff and spend all my free time playing and hanging with people doing fun things. I could make every move based on whether it makes me happy.

 

Instead I am moving into a place with no toilet, no washing machine, no dishwasher, no fridge, no potable water, no electricity, no gas, no air conditioning, no heat, no running water, no shower, etc. The toilet and electricity and running water are a matter of time. We will have that eventually. The water won't ever be potable, though. Living like that isn't for grins and giggles. I promise.

 

I don't enjoy living like that. I don't enjoy many of the things down here. I would love to be able to shower in clean water. Oh how I miss that. I would love to not have to worry about lice. Most of our kids are crawling with it. I could just snap my fingers and live easier without all these worries. But I don't. Why? Because it's not about my own happiness.

 

I have found happiness in my work. In fact, I am profoundly happy. I had no idea it would turn out that way. I came here to do something *other* than live my life for myself. Something *other* than spend 80 years pursuing my own happiness. Along the way, I found happiness, but that wasn't my reason for being here and it never will be.

 

 

That's what I thought. :) You are happy. If you weren't, you would find another way to serve.

Edited August 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Sputterduck]

That's what I thought. :)

 

I consider that a gift from God. If it went away it would not change a thing about what I choose to do.

[Mrs Mungo]

This reminds me of the Friends episode in which Phoebe was trying to commit an unselfish act. Linky

[LibraryLover]

I consider that a gift from God. If it went away it would not change a thing about what I choose to do.

 

 

You have chosen happiness. That your happiness comes from service doesn't make it less of a choice. That's good. That's wonderful! :)

[Sputterduck]

Be it homeschooling, a marriage they feel they cannot leave because of a profound convinction that it ties two people for eternity and it is their duty to remain, etc.

 

Staying in a profoundly unhappy marriage would be another one of those situations, yes. I think, though, that our motivations change dramatically when our children enter the situation - I do not find it that hard to believe that many people could be miserable for their children's sake, especially if they thought their children were potentially unsafe with unstable people, etc.

 

 

I stayed in a marriage for a long time because I thought I should. As soon as it was clear to me that I should leave I did! I just wish I had a better understanding of that sooner. But I was very, very young. There was no happiness there, just wifely duty.

[Sputterduck]

You have chosen happiness. That your happiness comes from service doesn't make it less of a choice. That's good. That's wonderful! :)

 

I did not choose happiness. I chose to live a hard life in order to help people who need it. That was the decision. That was the conscious choice I made. My own happiness was never part of the equation. Happiness came later, which is nice, but matters very little.

[LibraryLover]

I did not choose happiness. I chose to live a hard life in order to help people who need it. That was the decision. That was the conscious choice I made. My own happiness was never part of the equation. Happiness came later, which is nice, but matters very little.

 

Yet you did know you had to live your life a certain way. That was a choice. Unless someone put a gun to your head, you knew you wanted to do do something hard, something that would matter, something that mattered to you.

 

I think it's fabulous that you love your life in your service and find happiness in it! Knowing something will be difficult doesn't preclude happiness and reward. Your *desire* to get on that plane is part of your present happiness and satisfaction...and even on the days you wish lice did not exisit, right? If you thought your life did not have meaning, you'd choose a new path -- one that that brought you meaning and joy. Your happiness is not about earning $50/hour.

Edited August 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Sputterduck]

Yet you did know you had to live your life a certain way. That was a choice. Unless someone put a gun to your head, you knew you wanted to do do something hard, something that would matter, something that mattered to you.

 

I think it's great that you love your life in your service and find happiness in it. Knowing something will be difficult doesn't mean one can't find happiness and reward in it.

 

But the OP's questions were about making decisions based on things other than one's own happiness. My point, well one of my points, was that my own happiness doesn't not factor into my decisions generally. It doesn't even occur to me most of the time.

 

If I thought, "Missions will make me happy!" I would have refused to go, knowing that I was wanting to go for the wrong reasons. My point remains that personal happiness is fairly meaningless. Also, I reiterate that living life with that as the *goal* is selfish. I hesitate to say that because I really angered someone once saying so. She went off on how her happiness should be the goal of her life and herself and her own family are all she should have to worry about, etc, etc. It makes me jumpy to open up about this topic. :tongue_smilie:

[LibraryLover]

This reminds me of the Friends episode in which Phoebe was trying to commit an unselfish act. Linky

 

 

HA! Thank you!! Was that show an 90's show or a decade 2000 show? I've seen many episodes, but not when it aired. Do Ross and Rachel end up together after they have the baby?

[LibraryLover]

But the OP's questions were about making decisions based on things other than one's own happiness. My point, well one of my points, was that my own happiness doesn't not factor into my decisions generally. It doesn't even occur to me most of the time.

 

If I thought, "Missions will make me happy!" I would have refused to go, knowing that I was wanting to go for the wrong reasons. My point remains that personal happiness is fairly meaningless. Also, I reiterate that living life with that as the *goal* is selfish. I hesitate to say that because I really angered someone once saying so. She went off on how her happiness should be the goal of her life and herself and her own family are all she should have to worry about, etc, etc. It makes me jumpy to open up about this topic. :tongue_smilie:

 

:) I really am not trying to argue with you! :) However, I do believe that your service does bring you personal happiness. You said so. :) Meaning is happiness. Worth is meaning. You are happy to give of yourself.

 

I believe you are happy because you serve. You may serve out of duty to a greater good, but it still brings you joy to serve that greater good.

 

Would you be happy if you could no longer serve? If something happened where you couldn't do what you are presently doing, wouldn't you find a different way to serve? I am guessing you would not be 'happy' if you could not contribute in a way you believed mattered. You'd be trying to figure out another way that made you feel whole and right (happy? lol)

Edited August 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Mrs Mungo]

HA! Thank you!! Was that show an 90's show or a decade 2000 show? I've seen many episodes, but not when it aired. Do Ross and Rachel end up together after they have the baby?

 

It was from season 5, episode four (the title is, "the one where Phoebe hates PBS").

 

Ross and Rachel end up together at the very end of the show.

[Ester Maria]

My point remains that personal happiness is fairly meaningless. Also, I reiterate that living life with that as the *goal* is selfish. I hesitate to say that because I really angered someone once saying so. She went off on how her happiness should be the goal of her life and herself and her own family are all she should have to worry about, etc, etc. It makes me jumpy to open up about this topic. :tongue_smilie:

You really find that personal happiness as a goal - or, at least, as one of big considerations when making life choices - is a morally objectionable stance? Based on what - is it a personal belief unconnected to other personal beliefs, or stemming from a religious belief, or something else?

 

I am not talking about having a ME, ME, ME attitude towards life, but simply openly admitting that one's personal happines is important to one and is one (not necessarily the exclusive one, and in many cases maybe not even a decisive one, but ONE OF) important considerations when making life choices?

 

(Genuinely interested. :) Not angered or anything - just curious.)

[LibraryLover]

It was from season 5, episode four (the title is, "the one where Phoebe hates PBS").

 

Ross and Rachel end up together at the very end of the show.

 

 

Yeah! I could have looked that up, but I never remembered to! The baby has a science geek dad! Woot! I am so happy! LOL I am now going to look up when the show was on. I know how to use Google and am not afraid to use it!!

 

We had no TV for many years. Well..we had a tiny TV and crap reception. We are still too cheap to get cable. However...I have seen TLC!! Yeah Internet! lol And more that I don't care to admit. :tongue_smilie: Dance Moms, anyone? I shame myself. lol

[Sputterduck]

:) I really am not trying to argue with you! :) However, I do believe that your service does bring you personal happiness. You said so. :) Meaning is happiness. Worth is meaning. You are happy to give of yourself.

 

I believe you are happy because you serve. You may serve out of duty to a greater good, but it still brings you joy to serve that greater good.

 

Would you be happy if you could no longer serve? If something happened that you couldn't do what you are presently doing, you would find a different way to serve. I am guessing you would not be 'happy' if you could not contribute in a way you believed mattered. You'd be trying to figure out another way that made you feel whole and right (happy? lol)

 

It might be easier if I just use my marriage as an example. :lol: There was no happiness there but I was a dutiful wife and I stayed in ridiculous circumstances. I was quite unhappy and decided to stay out of duty.

 

Would I find another way to serve if I couldn't in this capacity anymore? If God wanted me to. My loyalty is His and my duty is only to Him. Me feeling "whole and right" isn't a factor. Emotions are fleeting, fickle things. Perhaps Spock and I would get along.

 

I'll say, though, that it's not right to let people suffer when you can do something about it. Most people though are so wound up in their own lives that they don't really do anything about it. I think *that* is one of the greatest tragedies of a world where people are concerned first and foremost about their own happiness. Even aside from that I can think of many things that are more important than personal happiness. Integrity, honor, honesty, faithfulness, courage, empathy, and many other things are far more important! If any of those are sacrificed for happiness, it is sad.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Sputterduck

[LibraryLover]

Well! There's an idea! Can we love what we do, contribute *and* be happy? Is misery a requirement?

 

You really find that personal happiness as a goal - or, at least, as one of big considerations when making life choices - is a morally objectionable stance? Based on what - is it a personal belief unconnected to other personal beliefs, or stemming from a religious belief, or something else?

 

I am not talking about having a ME, ME, ME attitude towards life, but simply openly admitting that one's personal happines is important to one and is one (not necessarily the exclusive one, and in many cases maybe not even a decisive one, but ONE OF) important considerations when making life choices?

 

(Genuinely interested. :) Not angered or anything - just curious.)

Edited August 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[The Governess]

This reminds me of the Friends episode in which Phoebe was trying to commit an unselfish act. Linky

 

:lol: I was just thinking the same thing! I looked up the episode too, haha.

 

Phoebe: "I cannot believe I can't find a selfless good deed! Y'know that old guy that lives next to me? Well, I snuck over there and-and raked up all the leaves on his front stoop. But he caught me and force-fed me cider and cookies. Then I felt wonderful. That old jacka**!"

[Ester Maria]

But...doesn't doing one's duty ultimately make such a person happy in the end, because that person's values have been lived out?

 

I was just discussing with my parents paying taxes on items purchased out of state. Does it make me "happy" to do so? Only insofar as I think it is the right thing to do. Not because it's somehow fun to surrender money.

 

I think happiness has many layers, one of which is fun and short-lived, and another which is not. Is marriage itself (a happy marriage!) a situation in which one is happy all the time? How about having kids? It's not fun to be pregnant, give birth, change dirty diapers, but it is usually nice to have a child. And so on.

I agree, and also with zenjenn's distinction between pleasure and happiness. I do think we are talking about a multi-layer thing - I usually use "joy" for sort of short term feelings and "happiness" for a kind of long term 'state' rather than an emotion with 'duration', if you get what I mean.

 

Regarding the bolded - I do wonder about the sort of paradox in those situations, yes. It is a bit like, I know that I would happy in a totally different situation - but does not being away from that situation, because I judge it unfavorably, in some weird way also make me "happy", albeit by an absense of that happiness? If that makes sense, LOL.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well! There's an idea! Can we love what we do, contribute *and* be happy? Is misery a requirement?

 

Misery is not a requirement. People who wallow in their misery have a martyr syndrome.

[Sugarfoot]

I know a person who is divorced and chooses to remain unmarried because of religious conviction, even though it makes him/her very unhappy. The marriage was a valid one in the Catholic church, and this person refuses to even pursue an annulment because of the moral conviction that doing so would be wrong. It's a decision that goes against the pursuit of happiness with very, very long-lasting consequences.

[nd293]

I think I live like this to some extend. Certainly I believe a sense of responsibility has more impact on my decisions than whether an action will make me happy. I rather like Daisy's idea of an "over-inflated sense of duty" - that probably describes me well. I believe in do the right thing above anything else. I'm not suggesting I always get that right, by any means, but it's probably the philosophy that most drives my decisions. If you want examples - well, homeschooling is the most obvious. I definitely don't enjoy homeschooling. I believe it's the right choice to make. I believe that as I made two people, my primary responsibility is to do what I feel is best for them, even if it makes me unhappy. I would certainly aim for a compromise position that would achieve the greatest all-round happiness (that mythical secular, university-model school located within 20 minutes of my home, or, hey, in the same country as me), but with that not an option, I put responsibility and values before what would make me happy. A more trivial example - this weekend I volunteered to help with a fundraising effort - I certainly could have used that time in ways which I would have preferred - I didn't want to help out - but I believe that I have a responsibility to contribute my time. I often find myself in this type of situation regarding co-operative groups, and do get annoyed by it - I guess I never thought of behavior in co-operative situations being influenced by different positions on the happiness-responsibility continuum, but I think it is a valid assessment of how most people operate. Interesting.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know a person who is divorced and chooses to remain unmarried because of religious conviction, even though it makes him/her very unhappy. The marriage was a valid one in the Catholic church, and this person refuses to even pursue an annulment because of the moral conviction that doing so would be wrong. It's a decision that goes against the pursuit of happiness with very, very long-lasting consequences.

 

I don't quite understand this. I mean I understand not feeling that another marriage would be right, but I don't understand why happiness can only be found in getting married. Isn't there happiness in learning to be content in the circumstances in which you find yourself?

[Peela]

Living from the deepest integrity I can, considering the greater good in my decisions as much as possible...being honest, loving unconditionally even in the face of difficult circumstances....trying to make my life be of service to the truth, to love, to the greater good, beyond the personal.....these things do make me happy. Not happy as in rolling around laughing...just deeply happy.

 

Outer circumstances have much less to do with happiness than we tend to think...yet we spend so much time trying to change them.

 

I also see my happiness, and doing what makes me happy and brings me joy, as a way of serving, of being of benefit. I do not think I would be of as much service, as much good, to the world, to my family to life, if I didn't basically do what makes me happy. They are not mutually exclusive things.

 

Ultimately, I think they are the same thing, and living in integrity, thinking of others, etc, as well as basically doing what makes one happy, should not be mutually exclusive. Giving makes people happy. Thinking of others makes people happy. The most unhappy people are generally the most selfish ones, the ones busy trying to be happy by only thinking of themselves. ANd i don't mean one shouldn't do what makes one happy...even if it not of obvious benefit to others.....because we are all miraculous beings and we have amazing capacities....but still, selfishness is not a trait than generally leads to happiness.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't quite understand this. I mean I understand not feeling that another marriage would be right, but I don't understand why happiness can only be found in getting married. Isn't there happiness in learning to be content in the circumstances in which you find yourself?

 

In my years as an Army wife I have learned that there are basically 2 types of people: those are happy pretty much no matter what and those who are unhappy pretty much no matter what.

[LibraryLover]

In my years as an Army wife I have learned that there are basically 2 types of people: those are happy pretty much no matter what and those who are unhappy pretty much no matter what.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Not that I am an Army wife, of course.

[Mrs Mungo]

Exactly.

 

Not that I am an Army wife, of course.

 

:D

 

Also, ime, living life according to your whims is a childish way to live and it ultimately doesn't being happiness. If it did, you'd never see a celebrity die of a drug overdose.

[LibraryLover]

:D

 

Also, ime, living life according to your whims is a childish way to live and it ultimately doesn't being happiness. If it did, you'd never see a celebrity die of a drug overdose.

 

 

And yet...does a person who is not in pain overdose?

 

I don't set out to be contrary...

 

I swear.

[missmoe]

I feel that choosing the right will bring me happiness. That doesn't mean the choice isn't sometimes hard or even painful.

[Heather in Neverland]

 

Also, ime, living life according to your whims is a childish way to live and it ultimately doesn't being happiness. If it did, you'd never see a celebrity die of a drug overdose.

 

:iagree:

 

I think people confuse "happy" with "content". I do not expect life to bring me day after day of delirious joy. I try to do what I think is right, I honor my commitments, and I put others first.

 

So I personally think living a life where you take your OWN PERSONAL happiness as the first/only factor in making decisions is a very selfish way to live.

 

God is not concerned with our happiness as much as our character.

[Mrs Mungo]

And yet...does a person who is not in pain overdose?

 

I don't set out to be contrary...

 

I swear.

 

That is what I am saying. Wealth gives them the ability to do whatever they want, but it doesn't make them happy.

[LibraryLover]

That is what I am saying. Wealth gives them the ability to do whatever they want, but it doesn't make them happy.

 

 

I did eventually realize what you meant...I can be a little slow at times. ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I did eventually realize what you meant...I can be a little slow at times. ;)

 

I tend to be terse, so I don't always explain well. :)

[LibraryLover]

I tend to be terse, so I don't always explain well. :)

 

 

And don't think I don't appreciate you typing slowly for me! :D

[Donna]

I think I live like this to some extend. Certainly I believe a sense of responsibility has more impact on my decisions than whether an action will make me happy. I rather like Daisy's idea of an "over-inflated sense of duty" - that probably describes me well. I believe in do the right thing above anything else. I'm not suggesting I always get that right, by any means, but it's probably the philosophy that most drives my decisions.

 

I also tend to be this way. There are a number of things in my life that I might rather be doing sometimes but there are the things I "must" do that always take precedence. I have a hard time saying no when asked to do something I know would be the "right" thing in my view and my understanding of what is right often keeps me in situations I might be happier being out of.

 

I would rather not share on a message board the big things in my life that explain. But some of the little things...I often end up overscheduled at work because I can't say no when there is a baby/family in need, I will always do for my kids before I will do for myself, and I am willing to live in a smaller, not as nice home so I can do certain things for my kids.

 

I generally chose to be happy in the situations I am in rather than dwell on what "could be" or how I might be happier. I think happiness is a state of mind and I can chose to have it no matter what else is going on. Not saying I am happy all the time but I try to take everything in stride and find happiness with the little things in life. I don't see any need in walking around wishing for things to be different...life is way too short.

 

Before my brother left for Iraq we had a conversation about duty. He was so sad leaving his 2yo dd to go but he felt his men needed him to be in Iraq. Six weeks and counting before he comes home.

[angela in ohio]

Then I am faced with a radically different view on life: personal happiness (within legal reason) is not the supreme good and sometimes even in major life choices one ought to choose the option which, if it were possible to see in the future and prove it, would be the less satisfactory one, simply on the grounds of it being "right".

 

This is my belief. I didn't realize it is unusual. I know quite a few people who believe it (I wish I knew more!)

 

I also seem to know a lot of people who like to say, "Well, I know I should do x, but I feel like doing y, so I will, and I don't care who is hurt, because my feelings are all that matter." I can run from them, but there always seem to be more. :D

 

I'd say my husband and I are both this way. Neither of us tend to make decisions based on what will make us happy but on what we feel is right or best. I tend to call it an overinflated sense of duty. LOL. But we were both raised that "the pursuit of happiness," is a shallow ideal. Better to pursue the right and then decide to be happy.

 

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you a bit because that doesn't seem to be all that uncommon among my immediate family and peers. On a much smaller scale, I often make commitments that are best for my children but are guaranteed not to add to my personal happiness. LOL.

 

I agree completely.

 

I guess it comes down to whether you are looking for immediate happiness or the abiding joy that comes from living a life of virtue.

 

Reading your follow-up about it being bigger than individual choices... that doesn't change it. Maybe it's part of being in the oft-ridiculed Midwest. There are many people all around me who are doing something right that is not who/what they want. My sfil was going to college when his father died. He left college and all future dreams and went home to run the farm so that his mother could eat and have a place to live.

[Ester Maria]

Lots of food for thought there - thanks to everyone for their replies.

I have learned that there are basically 2 types of people: those are happy pretty much no matter what and those who are unhappy pretty much no matter what.

This is interesting. I have observed something similar among people I know: most are genuinely happy even if things are not ideal, but some continue to be miserable regardless of the fact they "have it all" in terms of family, money, professional success, etc.

I think people confuse "happy" with "content". I do not expect life to bring me day after day of delirious joy. I try to do what I think is right, I honor my commitments, and I put others first.

 

So I personally think living a life where you take your OWN PERSONAL happiness as the first/only factor in making decisions is a very selfish way to live.

Okay, we may talk about "content" or "fulfilled" instead. I typically speak of "happiness" when I have in mind the general emotional atmosphere in one's life, a long term thing, as opposed to "joy" which I would apply to most of smaller scale life things. On the other extreme end, opposite to "happiness" I would put a profound depression, resignation, the love of life being sucked out of you, etc. - not in terms of being a bit down now and then, but as a constant in one's life.

 

What I wonder is, if that is the price (i.e. the loss of that "happiness" / content and approaching that other extreme), how many people would be willing to arrange their lives the way they recognize as optimal? I think there is a fundamental difference between what I am trying to talk about (though I may not word it very well!) and "regular" types of sacrifices, even if big ones, that people make in life, but in a content, fulfilled life, even if they may give up on some more immediate and more personal joys along the way.

 

The person I brought up has no energy. I have never seen a person with so little physical energy (no, they are not ill), with the lack of that sparkle in the eyes, somebody who looked so profoundly depressed most of the time (though not clinically depressed, the origin of their problems is, and they say it themselves, in the choices they made - they would not be in such a state had they lived a different life) and really suffering, that it really makes me wonder whether there is something slightly "unnatural" about such choices, going so deeply against your nature.

 

If you consider it from the giving perspective, I think it is nearly paradoxical: I am sure that in such a state I could not give, not nearly to the extent to which I can give and love and contribute when I am okay, content, fulfilled, happy with the life I am leading, even if it is imperfect or hurts sometimes. A state of such deep lethargy and taking in so much suffering seems to me nearly impossible to bring about something so good. And then the person even openly agrees that they know they would be overall more productive, more able to do good things for others and affect the world positivrely, etc., if they lived a different life... but they still find a call of duty exactly in that "misery", even if it goes against everything they personally are. I have really never met another person, now that I think about it, for whom such a profoundly unhappy life is a fully conscious choice.

 

I think that I have it easy: my values are pretty mainstream, my nature is pretty mainstream too, so the conflict, if any, is minimal. A friction now and then - those infelicities along the road which every road has - which I do solve in the direction of duty rather than in the direction of temporary joy, but I am not sure, if had a big conflict, that I would be strong enough to go with duty, even if in many ways a wiser and healthier option, for me and for the world, would be choosing the happier road. Which is weird, because like most people here who affirmed duty feelings, I consider myself a fairly strong personality when it comes to fulfilling what I consider necessary regardless of my momentary whims - yet, if my whole life satisfaction were at a stake, I am honestly not sure I could handle being so faithful and so firm in my values. If I felt the friction between the two was so serious that I would just be an overall miserable person - not a temporary sacrifice, but really something that affects my whole life...

I think what you are talking about is rare. I certainly don't know anyone that I could say has made choices that are contrary to who they essentially are out of duty alone.

Exactly, I also think that level of "extremism" of duty is pretty rare. I think the typical human psychology would be to loosen up when such profound frictions, with so much at stake, occur.

[Tarreymere]

I'd say my husband and I are both this way. Neither of us tend to make decisions based on what will make us happy but on what we feel is right or best. I tend to call it an overinflated sense of duty. LOL. But we were both raised that "the pursuit of happiness," is a shallow ideal. Better to pursue the right and then decide to be happy.

 

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you a bit because that doesn't seem to be all that uncommon among my immediate family and peers. On a much smaller scale, I often make commitments that are best for my children but are guaranteed not to add to my personal happiness. LOL.

 

:iagree:

 

I wish you could be more specific about the situation that prompted your post. All I could think of to say is 'of course I put my principles and my obligations before my personal happiness!' My husband is the same way, he chose to stay with a profoundly mentally ill spouse who later not only would not take her medication but also had become an active addict. He made this choice because he believed in the 'for better or worse' part of the marriage vows and because he believed it was best for the children. He was not a happy man during those years, but he would have been more unhappy and guilty if he had bailed.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Rainefox

[Scarlett]

I don't quite understand this. I mean I understand not feeling that another marriage would be right, but I don't understand why happiness can only be found in getting married. Isn't there happiness in learning to be content in the circumstances in which you find yourself?

 

I agree. My mom was divorced for 28 years. She didn't stay single because of some religious requirement...she was free to remarry....but she was gunshy at first and then there just weren't any decent men handy. ;) She was lonely sometimes, but she made herself a life. She was a good mother to us, a good school teacher, a good friend, and a good grandmother. She entertained, she traveled, she made made friends all over and had a very full life.

 

She has been married for 10 years now and she is happy. However, she never says she was miserable during her single phase.

[Sputterduck]

You really find that personal happiness as a goal - or, at least, as one of big considerations when making life choices - is a morally objectionable stance? Based on what - is it a personal belief unconnected to other personal beliefs, or stemming from a religious belief, or something else?

 

I am not talking about having a ME, ME, ME attitude towards life, but simply openly admitting that one's personal happines is important to one and is one (not necessarily the exclusive one, and in many cases maybe not even a decisive one, but ONE OF) important considerations when making life choices?

 

(Genuinely interested. :) Not angered or anything - just curious.)

 

Glad you aren't angered. :tongue_smilie:

 

I am not judging anyone, I promise. Talking about my life and about generic lives in general, I think living primarily for oneself is by definition selfish.

 

I think the root of all evil lies in selfishness. Satan and his pride? His separation from God? That was all about putting himself first. Adam and Eve choosing to eat from a tree they were forbidden from, same thing. They put themselves above obedience, above duty, and above God and His wishes. Corrupt politicians, war, neglectful parents, theft, difficult teens, screaming toddlers... Everything bad, large and small, (aside from natural disaster and illness) is rooted in persons putting themselves first.

 

When it comes to my life, and that's the only life I am comfortable judging right now, I feel that my life is wasted living it for myself. I am not the most important thing in the world, so why should I act like I am? Why should my decisions consider me first? My life is better used on others. I can benefit myself primarily, or I can benefit a whole bunch of people. In my mind, simple math makes that choice obvious. One person gets benefited or many.

 

It's like my friend, who is a missionary elsewhere, said. He said that people who live their lives concerned about their own family who raise kids who grow up to be concerned with their own family etc make a straight line. Those who live their lives to help others and who move others to help others, they don't make a line, they make a many-branched tree. I don't want to go before God knowing I could have done more for Him and those He loves. I would be ashamed.

 

Happiness is not a bad thing. It's a good thing, usually. I do think that the pursuit of happiness often undermines happiness. Happiness comes from many things, but the things we do when pursuing happiness for the sake of happiness often result in the opposite. When we live our lives for something greater, we attain happiness to a depth otherwise not possible. A contentment that runs straight through the depths of the soul...

[Sputterduck]

I don't quite understand this. I mean I understand not feeling that another marriage would be right, but I don't understand why happiness can only be found in getting married. Isn't there happiness in learning to be content in the circumstances in which you find yourself?

 

Some people just aren't very happy single. I'm not. I yearn in my heart for a warm body to cuddle up next to. I want so bad for someone to share life with. I want someone to know my heart in and out. *sigh* I want a partner.

 

And more than any of that, I wish my son had a father who loved him.

 

My heart hurts over this regularly. God said, "It is not good that man should be alone." It's not all that good for this woman, either. :tongue_smilie:

[Alenee]

Glad you aren't angered. :tongue_smilie:

 

I am not judging anyone, I promise. Talking about my life and about generic lives in general, I think living primarily for oneself is by definition selfish.

 

 

 

When it comes to my life, and that's the only life I am comfortable judging right now, I feel that my life is wasted living it for myself.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm in a situation right now where I feel obligated to sit tight and work through my own feelings on the matter, finding contentment where I am. I'm not happy about it, but I do know in my heart, I'm doing the right thing. If I were to put myself first in this particular situation, a lot of people would be hurt for years to come. It would completely change the dynamic of many relationships. So I choose to wait and see.

[Amy in NH]

I often make commitments that are best for my children but are guaranteed not to add to my personal happiness. LOL.

 

DH and I sacrifice a lot of things that would add considerably to our personal happiness in order to do what we consider to be the "right thing" for our children.

 

In fact, just parenting my 14yo does not make me happy. He is a tough nut. But it is my duty to be his parent even though it does not add to my personal happiness.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some people just aren't very happy single. I'm not. I yearn in my heart for a warm body to cuddle up next to. I want so bad for someone to share life with. I want someone to know my heart in and out. *sigh* I want a partner.

 

And more than any of that, I wish my son had a father who loved him.

 

My heart hurts over this regularly. God said, "It is not good that man should be alone." It's not all that good for this woman, either. :tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, I know that. I didn't marry until I was almost 30 and know that achiness in the heart. But I also knew how to enjoy a sunset, enjoy my friends, hobbies and reach out to others in service.

 

I know some people who learned to find happiness in their singleness (while still wanting all of what you mentioned) and eventually when they did get married they knew how to handle the disappointments and heartache that comes even in a good marriage. I know others who were so miserable in their singleness and could never look beyond that. They found someone to marry but unfortunately they've found misery in their marriage - maybe because they married hastily or perhaps because all they expected was a bed of roses. (Obviously these two examples don't encompass every single person I've met. There are multiple variations on each theme.)

[Colleen in NS]

Okay, we may talk about "content" or "fulfilled" instead. I typically speak of "happiness" when I have in mind the general emotional atmosphere in one's life, a long term thing, as opposed to "joy" which I would apply to most of smaller scale life things.

 

I think a lot of N. Americans (Christians, esp., at least in the circles I have been in for most of my life) apply the word "joy" to the bigger things, and downplay "happiness" as less important and maybe shallower or shorter-lived than joy. So this part of your post is a good peek into your mind, I think. And I think I'll bold it, to make it stand out. Although, I am pretty sure I caught the gist of what you were asking about originally, and I am enjoying reading your perspective that is so very different to how I have thought for years (and am being challenged to rethink these days anyway). It's very refreshing to me.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Colleen in NS

[HSMother]

Better to pursue the right and then decide to be happy.

 

Agreed. More specifically, I seek to pursue what's right in the sight of God, and then decide to be happy. I often fail miserably, but I try...

 

Michelle

[Hwin]

But what I have in mind in a sort of... a complete organization of a life... in a way that is not congenial to who you are, simply out of a duty feeling. Not dealing with infelicities of life, as hard as they but - but sort of choosing the downright opposite of "you" and not being fulfilled by it, yet standing by that choice. Do you not think it is an unusal thing? Or I am fooling myself and it is a very normal thing indeed?

 

I don't think that there are many people who could maintain a lifestyle that felt completely unnatural. You could pay me $1000 and I couldn't go to a party and make small talk, even though I would be motivated. I'm just too big of a chit-chat failure. :D

 

I have tried to push out of my comfort zone with regard to the person that God has called me to be, but I do not maintain it well. :(

[LizzyBee]

I grew up in a culture that definitely valued personal integrity above happiness. It wasn't just my family that created this culture; it was the entire community. It wasn't even taught so much as lived out by the parents and grandparents of the area. I can think back to plenty of people I've known who put their happiness above all else, and they left a trail of destruction behind them ~ and it was usually their kids who suffered the most. I think that doing the right thing even when I'd rather not leads to a contentment and satisfaction that goes deeper than "happiness."

[FrogMom5]

I haven't read all the posts but, my first thought was that most of us here are that way. Very few people really love homeschooling yet, we do it. Many of us continue all the way through high school, which is hard work.

 

But then, I thought that maybe I do choose happiness over committment sometimes. In little things. When I say to my kids, "just a minute, Mommy wants to hear the news," or "Mommy needs a few minutes of quiet." I don't know. It's something to think about for a while.

 

I do think with marriage and raising children, you have to put your own happiness aside and meet your committments first, at least most of the time. Otherwise, it doesn't work.

 

So, maybe it's combination? I don't know.

 

I do agree that being happy is a choice. My extended family is full of people who wallow in every little hurt and injustice. Even when shown how to think more positively and let these little things go, they choose to remain negative. Everyone gets hurt, offended, has unfair situations - it's how you handle them, what you choose to do afterwards that determine your happiness. So, yes, happiness is a choice.

Denise

[FrogMom5]

Some people just aren't very happy single. I'm not. I yearn in my heart for a warm body to cuddle up next to. I want so bad for someone to share life with. I want someone to know my heart in and out. *sigh* I want a partner.

 

And more than any of that, I wish my son had a father who loved him.

 

My heart hurts over this regularly. God said, "It is not good that man should be alone." It's not all that good for this woman, either. :tongue_smilie:

 

:grouphug: I will pray that you find someone soon and find peace until you do.

Denise

[Sputterduck]

Oh, I know that. I didn't marry until I was almost 30 and know that achiness in the heart. But I also knew how to enjoy a sunset, enjoy my friends, hobbies and reach out to others in service.

 

I know some people who learned to find happiness in their singleness (while still wanting all of what you mentioned) and eventually when they did get married they knew how to handle the disappointments and heartache that comes even in a good marriage. I know others who were so miserable in their singleness and could never look beyond that. They found someone to marry but unfortunately they've found misery in their marriage - maybe because they married hastily or perhaps because all they expected was a bed of roses. (Obviously these two examples don't encompass every single person I've met. There are multiple variations on each theme.)

 

Actually, my friend sitting next to me right now *loves* his singleness. :lol: He looooooves the bachelor thing. It cracks me up. His "freedom" means more to him than anything, just about.

 

I've had to be very careful to make sure that I'm looking at marriage only if God wants me to marry a certain person. I've certainly had enough people ask me to marry them. I know, though, that I'm at huge risk for marrying to marry instead of marrying for the right reasons. I've had to rip my heart in two just to avoid doing so. Argh. I've known plenty of people to marry just to marry and the results are not pretty.