Sputterduck Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 :grouphug: I will pray that you find someone soon and find peace until you do. Denise That's so very sweet. Thank you. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 You really find that personal happiness as a goal - or, at least, as one of big considerations when making life choices - is a morally objectionable stance? LL highlighted this earlier - I'd like to rephrase it (EM, please correct me if I misread you) and see what answers people come up with: Is personal happiness (contentment/fulfillment, as EM has recently clarified) as a big consideration when making life choices a morally objectionable stance? Yes or no? Why or why not? My own answer: No, I don't think it's a morally objectionable stance. For example, deciding to marry someone. That's a big life choice. When I was trying to decide whether or not to marry my husband, you can betcha I was wondering if I would be happy/content/fulfilled in a lifelong relationship with him! Oh sure, I was thinking about him, and his wants and hopes and all that, but I can't deny my own desire for happiness here in this life. It's part of being a human, I think. I think it's good to recognize that part of our humanity. Sure, we need to forgo "happiness" at times (many times! I'm very experienced in this, as I'm sure we all are, lol) in the short term, for the greater good. But to deny that in BIG LIFE CHOICES (marriage, vocation, having children, establishing worldview, etc.) that we are hoping for happiness in some way? I think that is to deny a part of being human (which I think is part of how God created us to be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogMom5 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't think that there are many people who could maintain a lifestyle that felt completely unnatural. You could pay me $1000 and I couldn't go to a party and make small talk, even though I would be motivated. I'm just too big of a chit-chat failure. :D I have tried to push out of my comfort zone with regard to the person that God has called me to be, but I do not maintain it well. :( But you push yourself because you feel it's what God wants from you. So, even though it doesn't feel comfortable, you try anyway. That's sacrificing your happiness for your committments. By the way, I'm a big chit-chat failure too. I'm awkward and tongue tied. Yet, like you I keep trying. I keep at it because it's best for my dc and what God wants of me. Keep trying. And, give yourself some grace. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think while a lot of this does tie to religion (in Hinduism, one's duty, Dharma, is a huge part of the foundation) and related to this is culture. To some cultures, it would be crazy to put your own happiness before your duty. The greater good is emphasized much more than individual happiness. After all, happiness is often fleeting. This is perhaps more customary in Eastern cultures. Individual liberties and individual happiness is much more prevalent in Western thinking and cultures. "The pursuit of happiness" and such. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, it is just a completely different cultural attitude. It's just as difficult for some from Eastern cultures to understand placing ones happiness before one's duties. BTW, I'm not saying there isn't anyone in Western culture that has the "duty first " way of thinking and vice versa, not everyone in Eastern cultures puts their duty before their happiness. My comments are just a generalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yes, though not exclusively: anyone who feels bound to a certain value system which goes against their nature / instincts / call it what you wish and who as a result of conflict opts for the "masochistic" solution. It can be mothers hating homeschooling, but being convinced it is a religious duty. Or quiverful people who would actually be the happiest with one child, but really really feel compelled to let God decide, even if it makes them less happy in many ways. Or people who hate volunteering of any type, but force themselves to do - while disliking it - because they see a value in it. Or homosexuals making mainstream lifestlye choices. People not starting an interfaith relationship even if it literally breaks their hearts. Or people who would have married, and madly love somebody, but put their faith first and cannot go interfaith, and regret that choice consistently, and do what they are "expected" to do in their faith, and find it a just choice, and still hate it, but do it. Things of the kind. Well, my thoughts are that if they are feeling led to do this because of their faith or belief in God, then there is really no arguing with it. I'll use your examples, just for ease: I can't imagine being happy with just one child (I have 3 and part of me would just keep having them!) but in the end God does decide regardless of what we do. I could still get pregnant despite having my tubes tied. So for someone who is a Christian, God decides. A friend of mine had a surprise baby when her next youngest was 7 (her oldest was 15) - sure, maybe at the time one more baby seemed to be insane and the thought of it made her rather unhappy - however the life that this child now has was obviously meant to be, and he's loved just as much as the other 4 (plus he has 4 other 'parents' lol). Short term inconveniences and shallow life goals such as wealth (which are the only reasons I can think of for not wanting more children) actually have nothing to do with personal fulfillment anyway. Regarding volunteering, if people hate it - wow. I mean I don't always love it, but there are so many ways out there to volunteer, I can't imagine there being something that wouldn't be less dislikeable than most everything else. And volunteering is the right thing to do. Regarding the interfaith things, well, I know not everyone would agree, but they shouldn't have been looking outside of their faith anyway. Sorry. :tongue_smilie: Anyway, to me these questions are all matters of integrity. They all just have to do with the way the person feels at the time, imo. What we think determines what we feel over time. Again I don't know if I made sense... I kind of rambled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 a) Happiness is far from the most important thing in life. b) What good is religion if it doesn't matter anymore once it no longer makes us happy? Being in a religion for our own happiness is... well... that's missing the whole point. c) Living life for our own happiness is selfish. I hope I don't offend anyone saying so. If I live my life for *myself*, well, I've gone and wasted my life. d) I think in making decisions, most of the time I'm not even sure if my own happiness enters my mind. It's just not that important. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I haven't read all the posts, but this is a very interesting topic. I am in the middle of choosing. Maybe I should more posts here to help me decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 LL highlighted this earlier - I'd like to rephrase it (EM, please correct me if I misread you) and see what answers people come up with: Is personal happiness (contentment/fulfillment, as EM has recently clarified) as a big consideration when making life choices a morally objectionable stance? Yes or no? Why or why not? No. Because I think it can affect everything you do. If happiness were the *only* consideration, then my answer might be different. That said, the description earlier of someone who is depressed and without sparkle? What makes you think a change in circumstance would change her attitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 No. Because I think it can affect everything you do. Now there's a nice, direct, and simple answer. :D And, I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarfoot Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I don't quite understand this. I mean I understand not feeling that another marriage would be right, but I don't understand why happiness can only be found in getting married. Isn't there happiness in learning to be content in the circumstances in which you find yourself? I don't think it's that happiness can only be found in getting married. There are many other sources of happiness in life. But this is one major thing that definitely affects this particular example. I think for many, yes, never getting married again would be absolutely fine. But in this instance, remarrying would bring happiness, and this person is willfully neglecting themselves of that due to personal/religious conviction. I honestly don't think it's that strange, though. Happiness is a wonderful thing, but it almost seems like a "bonus" to me at times. So it seems that following your moral convictions brings contentment, which for me, brings a certain happiness, so... I don't know... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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