s/o guns & boys: Is there anything you don't let your girls play with?

[Jenny in Florida]

I know white sugar is evil, which I why I don't use it, but I'm curious what makes it not vegan, specifically?

 

Many manufacturers use bone char in the processing. Some don't, but unless I know what brand of sugar was used, my vegan kids don't eat it.

 

If someone brought something to a party I hosted, I might ask what their restriction was and if it wasn't too bad offer to try to make something acceptable next time. If it truly was too difficult for me to accommodate (I might be a bit worried about making something for a kid with a really life-threatening allergy), I'd be happy to have them bring something, but if it was something more straightforward that just required a bit of ingredient jiggling, there's a good chance I'd be happy to accommodate.

 

Again, neither of my kids just "shows up" with food. We always discuss with the hosts first. The vast majority of people with whom we've had those discussions are happy to have me provide something.

 

The exception is my son's best friend's parents. Their son has multiple, severe food allergies. The boys have known each other since preschool age and have attended each other's birthday parties for something like eight or nine years. They also get together regularly year round. Within a few years, we mostly learned to cook for the other kid as well as our own. So, neither one has to send food anymore, because we all know how to deal.

 

But... there are lots of people whose cooking style is so far removed from organic or vegan or gluten or dye-free that they couldn't wrap their heads around trying to cook/bake that way (or they buy store-bought and have no interest in baking).

 

Exactly. Most parties my kids have attended have featured store-bought cakes, which offers parents/hosts little opportunity to accomodate dietary restrictions.

[Jenny in Florida]

One young boy gave a gift of the current popular action figure of the time and the birthday child's mother got down in front of him (and in front of everyone else) and explained that her family didn't allow such violent toys in their house because they only allowed peaceful toys. She told him why it was such a bad toy and said that he needed to take it home. The little boy was crushed and embarrassed and I've never forgotten how hurt he looked. I was so angry and upset and wondered why she didn't just thank the boy and then get rid of it later or even quietly mention to the parent and ask it they would want it back.

 

Ugh. Now that's rude. And cruel.

 

My daughter once received a Barbie at a birthday party. We thanked the guest and waited until after the party to discuss it with our daughter. We ended up donating the Barbie to a local charity and allowing our daughter to select a toy of roughly the same value from a store.

 

I also spoke to the child's parent privately and let her know it wasn't a big deal and that I didn't want her daughter to have her feelings hurt. (I wanted the mom the be prepared in case her daughter investigated or mine--who was about 5 at the time and not always as diplomatic as one might wish--let something slip.)

[Lovedtodeath]

?

:grouphug:

[Crimson Wife]

Question: what if it's a situation of severe allergies? If a mom provided a safe snack/meal for her child because eating something at your home that contained the allergen could potentially be fatal to that child --- would you still see that as rude?

 

What's so tough about letting the hostess know ahead of time about the restriction(s) and politely mentioning that you'd be willing to provide a "safe" snack if it would be easier on her?

 

Unexpectedly showing up with your own food is as rude as surprising the hostess with an uninvited dinner guest, if not more so. The message you're sending is that you don't care about all the trouble the hostess has gone to in preparing the meal. You know all the talk about the various "love languages"? Well, cooking is one of mine.

 

I've got organic maple syrup in my fridge and a package of organic "raw" sugar in my pantry. I could also use an organic fruit puree as a sweetener if that would be someone's preference. As a hostess, I *want* to serve dishes my guests will enjoy.

 

It's one thing to politely decline a particular dish, but quite another to quite publicly insult the hostess by bringing your own one in its stead. :glare:

[jewellsmommy]

Dd has always been into animal toys. She loves littlest pet shop, stuffed animals, and plastic animals. She has barbies, but rarely plays them. We never bought bratz because I ddn't like the way they looked. She never asked for one. She has always been a collector. As a 4/5 yr old it was rocks and buttons! Our pastor told us once that some people (who didn't know us well), at church, thought we were poor because dd always had rocks and buttons as her 'treasures.' :lol:

 

Dd always played her own way with things. We bought her Mr Potato head at 2, but she baked him in her toy oven and served him to a stuffed cat for lunch :001_huh:.

 

At 9 her obsession is hippos and Mr potato head (yep, still have one) is a hippos favorite dinner.

 

The only thing I have ever tried to block is stuffed animals. She has waaay too flippin many!

[Jenny in Florida]

Unexpectedly showing up with your own food is as rude as surprising the hostess with an uninvited dinner guest, if not more so. The message you're sending is that you don't care about all the trouble the hostess has gone to in preparing the meal. You know all the talk about the various "love languages"? Well, cooking is one of mine.

 

One. More. Time: They don't show up "unexpectedly" with their own food in order to insult the hostess. I communicate with the hosts in advance and make the offer. With the exception of the one family I mentioned in an earlier post, no one has ever told me they would rather go to the trouble of preparing something specific for either of my children. Everyone has graciously accepted my offer to send or bring something.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

No Bratz dolls or anything similiar. Also, never allowed her to watch or have any of the Disney show "stuff" like Hannah Montana etc...

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I don't allow Bratz dolls either.

 

If I had a younger dd, those would not be an option either.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I have vegan friends and make sure to serve animal product-free dishes when they eat at my house. But if someone rudely showed up to a party I was hosting with their own food, I wouldn't be inviting them again. Didn't anybody teach them any manners? :glare:

 

I can't even imagine thinking that was lacking in manners. People have food allergies, period. That is the type of thing I don't have time to let my feathers get ruffled over. I'd rather be understanding about people's food sensitivities.

[Haiku]

I'm curious what makes it not vegan, specifically?

 

 

 

Some white sugar (not all) is filtered through bone char.

 

There is no way of knowing whether the sugar you buy has been through bone char. Often the companies selling it don't know. And the bone-char sugar gets mixed with non-bone-char sugar and sold in the same package. There's no way to ensure vegan white sugar unless there is some specialty vegan white sugar company out there that I don't know about.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

Would you be interested in hearing about the many, many hours I spent working in the kitchens when my kids attended Camp Fire programs?

 

Or how about me, whose kids attend a free summer camp for children with medical issues, and who has to send along an entire weeks' worth of food for the kids because the camp won't feed kids who can't/don't eat dairy?

 

I don't send food along to places out of rudeness. I send it out of practicality.

 

Tara

[DarcyB]

Take this with the grain of salt you need since it's coming from a woman who dislikes most things 'girlie' and who only had boys.... We probably wouldn't have Barbies (and the like toys), nor make-up centric toys in our house.

[Haiku]

The message you're sending is that you don't care about all the trouble the hostess has gone to in preparing the meal.

 

No, that's the message you're choosing to interpret. We've all assured you that that's not the case. It's up to you if you continue to view it as a personal affront.

 

Tara

[Nakia]

We've never forbid any toys. Our girls have Barbies that they almost never play with, but they've never asked for a Bratz doll. They much prefer dress up clothes (some Disney!), stuffed animals, their play barn and animals, art and crafts, trampoline, and playing with their 21 real pets including a snake.

[4wildberrys]

Or how about me, whose kids attend a free summer camp for children with medical issues, and who has to send along an entire weeks' worth of food for the kids because the camp won't feed kids who can't/don't eat dairy?

 

I don't send food along to places out of rudeness. I send it out of practicality.

 

Tara

 

You too, huh? BTDT many many times! In fact, our kids just got back from a weekend trip with family---including their HUGE cooler of 3 meals a day PLUS snacks for the entire trip of 3 days. It's just what we have to do to ensure health, especially if we are unsure of 'safe' eating establishments or short on $$$. :001_huh:

[angela in ohio]

It's actually much better manners to bring a snack if you know your dc can't eat what is served, rather than asking the hostess to learn about your child's needs and prepare something separate. It shows concern for her time.

 

We know many children with allergies, etc. When we see them frequently, I take the initiative to learn about their needs and prepare things they can have for everybody, so that they can have the "normal" snack. We have a relationship, and their parents can trust me. But if it was a one-time thing like a party, I would appreciate someone bringing their own, and I wouldn't expect their parents to trust me to be diligent if they don't know me.

[Sahamamama]

We don't do Barbies or Bratz dolls -- just not the style of playing I want to see in my little girls. I can't think of anything else we don't allow in the house.

 

This. No Barbie dolls and no Bratz dolls.

[unsinkable]

"White sugar is evil."

 

Is that hyperbole? :confused:

[Crimson Wife]

It's actually much better manners to bring a snack if you know your dc can't eat what is served, rather than asking the hostess to learn about your child's needs and prepare something separate. It shows concern for her time.

 

Not according to Emily Post:

"Upon accepting an invitation, mention any allergy that could cause a serious reaction. Explain to your hostess, 'We’d love to come for dinner, but I must tell you that Bob is deathly allergic to shellfish.'

 

Dietary preferences, such as vegetarianism, should be handled on a more individual basis, depending upon the event. If it is a large party or a buffet, the guests should try and 'make do' since a variety of foods will be served. If the gathering is small, the dinner is in your honor or your going to be an overnight houseguest, you should mention your restrictions to the host and offer to bring a dish to share. Say, 'Thanks so much for the invitation, Joan. I should let you know that I am a vegetarian. I’d love to bring a zucchini casserole if that’s ok with you.'â€

It's very rude to the hostess for a guest to unexpectedly show up with his/her own separate food.

[Joker]

Not according to Emily Post:

 

"Upon accepting an invitation, mention any allergy that could cause a serious reaction. Explain to your hostess, 'We’d love to come for dinner, but I must tell you that Bob is deathly allergic to shellfish.'

 

Dietary preferences, such as vegetarianism, should be handled on a more individual basis, depending upon the event. If it is a large party or a buffet, the guests should try and 'make do' since a variety of foods will be served. If the gathering is small, the dinner is in your honor or your going to be an overnight houseguest, you should mention your restrictions to the host and offer to bring a dish to share. Say, 'Thanks so much for the invitation, Joan. I should let you know that I am a vegetarian. I’d love to bring a zucchini casserole if that’s ok with you.'â€

 

It's very rude to the hostess for a guest to unexpectedly show up with his/her own separate food.

 

The pp has said several times that it is not done unexpectedly. She said they communicated beforehand and the hostess never offered to change the food but said it was fine to bring their own.

[DarcyB]

I don't think so at all. And I think days have changed since Emily Post could consider this.

 

I would much rather a friend bring their own food if it mean they could come and be with us without worry and have fun, than to not eat while everyone else is eating because they couldn't be comfortable in the fact that the food was safe for them. But then, I suppose, a phone call to talk about it first is always the proper thing to do.

[Orthodox6]

I

 

I know white sugar is evil, which I why I don't use it, but I'm curious what makes it not vegan, specifically?

 

.

 

I find it a creative stretch to call white sugar "evil" ! :)

 

To answer your question, though, there are vegans who will not use any sugar which was whitened by use of bone char.

 

OOPS. Tara already addressed that point. I should have read the entire thread first.

 

I don't remember the brand, but I have in past located sugar that did not go through bone char. It was labeled on the package. Again, though, I don't recall what it was.

[Jenny in Florida]

So far, I've said:

 

First of all, I've never sent either of my kids to a birthday party for a child we didn't know well enough for this not to be a surprise. Without exception, I've spoken to the parents in advance and made the offer, which has always been accepted gratefully and graciously.

 

Does it help to know that I always consult with the hosting parents first? That I do my best to provide a treat that looks as much as possible like what they are serving and that, when the kids were younger, I always offered to stay and help serve not only my own child but others?

 

Again, neither of my kids just "shows up" with food. We always discuss with the hosts first. The vast majority of people with whom we've had those discussions are happy to have me provide something.

 

One. More. Time: They don't show up "unexpectedly" with their own food in order to insult the hostess. I communicate with the hosts in advance and make the offer.

 

Then you said:

 

It's very rude to the hostess for a guest to unexpectedly show up with his/her own separate food.

 

What we have here is failure to communicate.

 

I'll try one last time, and then I give up:

 

We're talking about children's birthday parties, not formal dinners.

 

I always consult with the parents/hosts first. Thus far, no one (with the exception of the one family I mentioned before) has said they would rather take on the responsibility of feeding my kids. I bake something for my child that matches the birthday child's cake as closely as possible and always offer to stay and help serve so as to make the process as smooth and unobtrusive as I can manage.

 

For the most part, I don't provide entire separate meals. If I know food will be served and that there is not likely to be much my children can eat, I feed them before and/or after the party and coach them not to make a big deal about not eating while there.

 

The cake, in my experience, is different. At children's parties, the cake is often a big event. Having one child not participate can cause comment and discomfort for the birthday child and the parent hosts. Working with the parents in advance and making sure my child has something that allows him or her to eat dessert along with the rest of the guests has always felt to me like a polite thing to do.

 

And it has always been received as such.

 

In the single case of the family we've known for a long time, I do not send anything special with my son for parties, although the mom often asks/suggests that I send snacks with him if the boys are just hanging out and swimming or playing games or whatever. She does the same when her son comes over here.

 

We have a long-term relationship with that family and have learned to accomodate my kids' ethical dietary restrictions and her son's allergies.

 

In that case, they always make a birthday cake that works for both boys. I'll be very honest and admit that my son rarely eats it, because he doesn't care for it. But, since that's a personal preference thing and not a conviction thing, he has to deal with it.

 

Since her son is allergic to a couple of the things that I usually use to bake, when he comes for my son's parties, I make him his own small cake. (This past year, I did big cupcakes for everyone. So, it allowed me to make things that worked for everyone and didn't look too different to the naked eye.)

 

Also, both of mine are older now and don't go to those kinds of parties any longer. So, it hasn't been an issue in a long time.

 

If we had friends who felt as strongly about this as you do, we would, of course, honor their wishes. I've just never met anyone who objected.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Haiku]

If it is a large party or a buffet, the guests should try and 'make do' since a variety of foods will be served.

 

Oh, wow, that's awesome. Come and "make do." How festive. :glare:

 

I guess that's what I was supposed to do when I was a social worker and went to quarterly meetings where the "vegetarian option" for lunch was an iceberg lettuce salad with some tomato slices.

 

Um, no. I brought my own lunch.

 

It sounds to me like Emily Post want to punish people for having preferences she doesn't approve of.

 

Tara

[Caroline]

Oh, wow, that's awesome. Come and "make do." How festive. :glare:

 

I guess that's what I was supposed to do when I was a social worker and went to quarterly meetings where the "vegetarian option" for lunch was an iceberg lettuce salad with some tomato slices.

 

Um, no. I brought my own lunch.

 

It sounds to me like Emily Post want to punish people for having preferences she doesn't approve of.

 

Tara

 

I cannot imagine my dd with celiac making do at a buffet. We would have to assume everything has been cross contaminated.

[Jenny in Florida]

Oh, wow, that's awesome. Come and "make do." How festive. :glare:

 

I guess that's what I was supposed to do when I was a social worker and went to quarterly meetings where the "vegetarian option" for lunch was an iceberg lettuce salad with some tomato slices.

 

Um, no. I brought my own lunch.

 

It sounds to me like Emily Post want to punish people for having preferences she doesn't approve of.

 

Tara

 

See, I even object to the term "preferences."

 

Is keeping kosher considered a "preference?"

 

Our veganism stems from our ethical/religious/spiritual beliefs. It's not about personal health. It's not a political statement. And it's not a "preference."

 

It's important to us. Very.

 

And, yes, I agree that Ms. Post sounds like she's a little snitty about those pesky vegetarians ruining her dinner party.

[Jenny in Florida]

I just realized that I've managed to participate in completely derailing this thread.

 

I apologize, and I promise to get out of the way now and let the conversation get back to its original intent.

[Crimson Wife]

I guess that's what I was supposed to do when I was a social worker and went to quarterly meetings where the "vegetarian option" for lunch was an iceberg lettuce salad with some tomato slices.

 

:ack2::ack2::ack2:

 

FWIW, I've got a subscription to Vegetarian Times (we're "flexitarians"), which always has plenty of tasty vegan dishes. I would never relegate a vegetarian to just an icky salad.

 

OTOH, I did have to pass up a preschool co-op program I wanted to do for my DS because some Food Nazi mom insisted on a 3 page list of dietary restrictions. And I'm not talking about reasonable stuff like avoiding a particular allergen or having a vegan option or saying no HFCS & chemical preservatives, etc. It was *WAY* over-the-top and I would be willing to bet this particular mom has orthorexia.

[Haiku]

See, I even object to the term "preferences."

 

Is keeping kosher considered a "preference?"

 

 

 

I'd say that yes, it is. People keep kosher because they choose to. I am vegan because I choose to be. When I looked up "preference" in the dictionary, "choice" was one of the definitions. There needn't be an implication that a preference is somehow not to be taken seriously or inferior to the standard way of doing things. In fact, I am very careful, when people say things like, "You have dietary restrictions" or "You can't eat that" to say, "I can eat anything I choose, but I choose not to eat animal products." I want people to know that they have a choice in the matter.

 

Tara

[Jenny in Florida]

FWIW, I've got a subscription to Vegetarian Times (we're "flexitarians"), which always has plenty of tasty vegan dishes. I would never relegate a vegetarian to just an icky salad.

 

And, just to give you an understanding of my outlook, I would have eaten the plain iceberg and tomato salad. However, I cancelled my subscription to Vegetarian Times in large part because I found the recipes for vegan dishes to be so limited.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is that there are many different ways to be vegan. Just because you have some vegan friends ("Some of my best friends are vegan!") and have found ways to cook for them that work for all of you doesn't mean you know enough all about how to feed me and my children, too.

 

Which is why, if you invited one of my kids to a party, I'd call you in advance and have a chat during which I offered to bring a treat for my child. If you brushed off that offer, I would respect your wishes. But, unless I knew for sure what was in the cake you tried to serve my kiddo and I had told said kiddo in advance that it was okay, both of my kids would probably decline it.

 

Doesn't my way seem simpler?

Edited July 18, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Jenny in Florida]

I'd say that yes, it is. People keep kosher because they choose to. I am vegan because I choose to be. When I looked up "preference" in the dictionary, "choice" was one of the definitions. There needn't be an implication that a preference is somehow not to be taken seriously or inferior to the standard way of doing things. In fact, I am very careful, when people say things like, "You have dietary restrictions" or "You can't eat that" to say, "I can eat anything I choose, but I choose not to eat animal products." I want people to know that they have a choice in the matter.

 

Tara

 

I try to avoid "can't," too. However, I do think there's a difference between vegans who avoid animal products for health reasons and those who make the choice for ethical/spiritual reasons.

 

The first ones might be just fine with their children eating the occasional cupcake at a party, since one cupcake every few months is unlikely to make a significant impact on a child's health. Folks in the second category, though, are likely to be appalled at the idea of eating anything that came from one of their fellow creatures.

[mommymilkies]

We don't play with Bratz (and anything like them) or play baby bottles. I keep them out of the house and tell family not to buy them. When they are old enough, I explain why.

[Haiku]

The first ones might be just fine with their children eating the occasional cupcake at a party, since one cupcake every few months is unlikely to make a significant impact on a child's health. Folks in the second category, though, are likely to be appalled at the idea of eating anything that came from one of their fellow creatures.

 

I see what you mean. I wouldn't consider folks in the second category vegan. I would call them strict vegetarians. Veganism, as I know you know ;) , is a lifestyle encompassing more than just not eating animal products. If you don't eat animal products but wear leather or use beeswax, you aren't vegan. If you don't worry about carmine/cochineal because it doesn't raise your cholesterol, you aren't vegan.

 

Tara

[angela in ohio]

Not according to Emily Post:

"Upon accepting an invitation, mention any allergy that could cause a serious reaction. Explain to your hostess, 'We’d love to come for dinner, but I must tell you that Bob is deathly allergic to shellfish.'

 

Dietary preferences, such as vegetarianism, should be handled on a more individual basis, depending upon the event. If it is a large party or a buffet, the guests should try and 'make do' since a variety of foods will be served. If the gathering is small, the dinner is in your honor or your going to be an overnight houseguest, you should mention your restrictions to the host and offer to bring a dish to share. Say, 'Thanks so much for the invitation, Joan. I should let you know that I am a vegetarian. I’d love to bring a zucchini casserole if that’s ok with you.'”

It's very rude to the hostess for a guest to unexpectedly show up with his/her own separate food.

 

That's great advice for an adult at a party. Who wants a kid to "make do" at a party?

 

I kind of think she agrees with me: she said to ask them if you could bring something ahead of time, which is exactly what the pp said she does. There is no showing up unexpectedly. According to Mrs. Post, she could bring enough vegan cupcakes to share though. ;)

Edited July 18, 2011 by angela in ohio

[angela in ohio]

What we have here is failure to communicate.

 

:D

[angela in ohio]

If the only thing a vegetarian can eat on a table full of food is an iceberg salad with sliced tomatoes, I'm not sure anyone should be eating that meal. :lol:

Edited July 18, 2011 by angela in ohio

[Mommy22alyns]

I've refused to buy Bratz, and when asked, let ppl know that I'd prefer they weren't given as a gift. Same with Hannah Montana/Justin Bieber/whatever else is floating around in the teen category in Disney.

 

 

We don't do birthday parties for the girls and this is one reason - I would HATE for them to get HM/JB/whatever as a gift! :001_huh:

[justamouse]

hypersexualized dolls