GOYB parenting - a question

[blondeviolin]

I'm really attempting to give this style a good valiant attempt. It is very close to how I parent naturally. That being said, how do you require a child to be quiet with such parenting? You can't physically make a 3yo comply when you request for them to be quiet, but there are instances where we require our children to be quiet and/or whisper. My 3yo is also a limit-tester so I cant just tell him to be quiet and expect him to comply.

[Whereneverever]

I offer my children places they can be loud, and times. I think it makes it easier for little kids if they know that this moment is quiet- but that a loud one WILL come.

[eternalknot]

What is GYOB?

[Whereneverever]

What is GYOB?

 

 

Get Off Yer Butt. :D

[blondeviolin]

I offer my children places they can be loud, and times. I think it makes it easier for little kids if they know that this moment is quiet- but that a loud one WILL come.

 

My son couldn't care less if he can be loud in 20 minutes. He gets annoyed that we are requiring he be quiet and deliberately is loud to try and engage us in a tug-o-war for control. Usually I do not engage in control wars. I just need him to be quiet when it is time for that.

 

I guess the issue is also complicated by the fact that he doesn't want to be doing what is requiring him to be quiet (bedtime or church) so even if he is taken out to be disciplined he feels like he has "won" because he left the less-desirable area and/or gotten your attention.

[Joanne]

I'm really attempting to give this style a good valiant attempt. It is very close to how I parent naturally. That being said, how do you require a child to be quiet with such parenting? You can't physically make a 3yo comply when you request for them to be quiet, but there are instances where we require our children to be quiet and/or whisper. My 3yo is also a limit-tester so I cant just tell him to be quiet and expect him to comply.

 

I know the author of that program fairly well. She'd probably say that expecting and enforcing "quiet" of a 3 year old is counter productive. Instead, she'd recommend that increase the chances of a quiet time.

 

You can practice with fun role plays.

You can make sure the 3 year old has eaten

played using big motor movement

Slept well

has something to focus hands, ears, attention

 

When my kids were little little, I ran a daycare. One of the things they did was go a bit nutso when parents came to pick up their kids. I finally realized that the energy/anxiety they had in their bodies at that time was too much for them to handle. So, we talked about that energy, and how it is great at a park, but not when I needed to talk to adults. I gave them each a chance to practice being the "adult at the door" and they practiced not talking to the adults, and practiced "waiting". They got to ring the doorbell and be the adult and also got to be the kids. They learned.

 

One of the cores of positive discipline approaches is being *proactive* instead of *reactive*.

[Joanne]

What is GYOB?

 

From an old, static site that needs to be re-done.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=54

[Momof3littles]

Redirect them somewhere where they can be loud (outside, their room, etc.)

 

Use Playful Parenting (Cohen's book) and make it into a game. Well, you can be loud like a lion, but I had better not catch you using a tiny voice like a mouse! or some variation of a playful game. ITA w/ Joanne's posts above too.

[Paige]

I'm not familiar with the site, but to teach a 3yr old to be quiet, if you really, really, really need to keep him or her quiet, I think you'd go with the dog training style. Practice being quiet when you don't need for him or her to be quiet- Use treats and praise, hand signals, and key words. You will need to get him or her "barking" (loud) so you can then teach the quiet effectively, so the training needs to be done well before you expect the 3yr old to be quiet. Later, you can prepare the child that whenever you do the quiet code words and/or hand signals, he or she should remember and be quiet. Continue with praise and treats after she or he has done well in public as long as you need to.

[Scarlett]

I know the author of that program fairly well. .

 

Hee hee. This made me giggle.

[eternalknot]

Get Off Yer Butt. :D

 

From an old, static site that needs to be re-done.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=54

 

Thanks, ladies! I've always raised my kids the same way my family did, so I'm not terribly familiar with the different parenting style varieties out there. I didn't recognize this acronym, and now I know why - it's a new one to me :D. Catchy name, I'm not likely to forget!

 

I'm really attempting to give this style a good valiant attempt. It is very close to how I parent naturally. That being said, how do you require a child to be quiet with such parenting? You can't physically make a 3yo comply when you request for them to be quiet, but there are instances where we require our children to be quiet and/or whisper. My 3yo is also a limit-tester so I cant just tell him to be quiet and expect him to comply.

 

Can you share an example of some of these instances?

 

My family of origin is large, and so is my extended (close-knit) family. We have a lot of different personality types to contend with, some of which are limit-testers. I wish I could say that the older of these has outgrown the need to test limits, but ... if I did, I'd be lying. Though, in all honesty, I do see that as adults who have learned to use this trait for good instead of evil - it's been a valid, useful life tool. So there's that to look forward to. Way, way, way down the road :D.

 

Limit-testers seem motivated by different things. Is yours motivated by proving something to you (relationship dynamic/hierarchy)? Or maybe motivated by a need to know the hows/whys before agreeing to comply? Or perhaps motivated by impulsivity, as a general show of his personality? I think knowing why he tests your limits is important in knowing how to work around his actions.

 

My general, pat answer, absent knowing his motivation, is to guess that he's just the kind of kid who needs a reason. I know this gets annoying, but I really think that it's a personality quirk some people are just born with. So in the same vein as the GYOB website I just looked at - being proactive is key, IMO.

 

If you're in church, the library, or hospital -- explain before you go in that this is a place to be quiet. And why. Remind him that he'll need to be quiet for x-time. And why. His cue that this time is almost up (and it'll be time to go) is y-indicator. Before entering, get his sillies and wiggles out. When he's out of the door, step to a side area and let him shake them all out again. Explain ahead of time that if he has to say something, he'll need to whisper. If he forgets, gently put a finger to his lips (not to yours), mouth "Shh", and *important part* as soon as you can permit him to share, allow him to.

 

Practice this at home. Play the Quiet game - like if baby brother is napping, or Dad is on a phone call. Create situations and scenarios that he thinks are real, and are designed to basically 'train' him to follow your cue. Hushing his lips gently will give him enough pause to at least -hopefully- remember or be reminded to whisper. (Though, if that fails -and at my house it did initially!- blow gently in his face. He'll have to inhale. That worked on my kids, but always freaked out my neice. My kids would get quiet for a minute, she'd start screaming. YMMV!)

 

The older my kids get, the less I have to explain the why for every last little thing. They've come to realize that I don't make requests for quiet just to get my jollies off, that they can trust there is always a reason why. Having heard the why over the years, they seem more aware of situations calling for quiet and are now able to self-regulate.

 

When all else fails, keep paper and pencils handy. I used to tell my daughter (super loud -which is survival in a family as large as ours!- and extremely talkative) to draw it for me quietly until I was free/available to listen to her. That didn't really take off until she was closer to four, though, now that I think about it ...

 

This was long, and perhaps not even helpful LOL. I'd say the answer to your question lies in recognizing what his motivations are to test limits, and knowing exactly what time of situations you're struggling to keep him quiet/whispering.

[Audrey]

She's a bit too modest to say it, but I'm a big mouth from down South, so I'll tell you that GOYB Parenting is the brilliant brainchild of our own Joanne right here on these boards. :D

[anotherbrother]

Joanne -

 

I read your entire site. I'd love to hear what you have to say about "potty" talk. I have a six year old who loves nothing more than to spew naughty words at people. I think he primarily does it to get a reaction and after awhile there really isn't a choice but to react.

 

Our biggest struggle is that his older brothers are very close and share their best friend in common. They have gotten better about including him, but the age difference is a problem when they go to the park or have sleepovers. He doesn't really have friends his own age since he wasn't ever in school here and the few kids in the neighborhood are little girls who are younger than him.

 

Those certainly aren't an excuse , just an insight into his behavior.

 

Sorry for the thread hijack. The thread just instantly made me think about this issue.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, people often say, it's just not a reasonable request; but fact is, it's life.

 

Our Christian meetings are a little over 1½ hours long. I do expect my preschoolers to manage it and they do beautifully! In fact, we had a convention recently where they had a morning session and an afternoon session and they did better than kids who grew up doing this. This despite the fact that these are not basic level children (meaning they are more challenging than average foster children their age).

 

I remember going to a convention with my children when my son was two. My son had developmental issues that made him quite challenging in general. This older woman came in a little late and was sat down a seat away from my son (and btw, I looked all of 16, if that, and had two very young children with me which probably didn't build her confidence any). After the morning session, she praised us greatly, saying how worried she had been when she had been sat near us. She was so thankful he was so well-behaved.

 

Additionally, I believe children need to be respectful when I'm talking to adults, talking on the phone, working on something, etc.

 

BTW, that isn't a one way street. I try very hard to be respectful of them also. I make a point so they can see their favorite show. I ask them if they will X after they get to a stopping point in their project. I don't interrupt them on the phone. And the list goes on.

 

The biggest thing I do is set them up for success.

 

I make the standard of behavior CLEAR. I give them things they MAY do rather than just telling them what NOT to do. For example, my son was not just sitting there super still and quiet. He and I signed a couple times for direction, redirection, help, etc. He was moving in his own ways we had worked on. He had tongue aerobics and toe wiggles going like crazy. He had learned to move parts of his body (legs, change positions) in ways that seem natural to adults, not out of control like many toddlers. He was still tapping and nodding (he's on the spectrum), just in ways not bothersome to others around him.

 

One thing that happened when we started fostering that drove me absolutely batty was that the children went NUTS when someone new (like a lawyer) came over. Absolutely bonkers. What I did to extinguish this behavior was to give them choices about what they could be doing during that time. When it didn't feel "right," I'd just have my ds or dd take them outside to play. Lawyers expect kids to be wild outside :) With my fd, I just let her know who the person is coming to see (not her) and that it would be respectful for her to say hello and answer her name and such, but that she is to then go X (whatever we decided she would do when this person is here). In addition, we set up a cue so I can direct her if she misses the social cues or whatever. We also don't expect their routine to be ruined. The show my kids like to watch comes on once per day. It's 22 minutes long (no commercial). When our coordinator is here, I still turn it on for them. Why should they have to miss their one show because of adult business?

 

Anyway, so the idea isn't just to squash naughtiness (though I do think sometimes there is a place for that), but to give kids what they CAN do.

 

My 3yr old is very very tough. He isn't going to listen just because I want him to; and in fact, that is probably a pretty good reason to drive me batty. But when the expectation is super-clear and he is given ways to succeed, he's amazingly capable of living up to pretty high standards. He's actually MORE capable than the other children as long as I manage to communicate well and help him succeed.

 

I hope this helps a little. Routines, practice, role playing, etc all do work. It just takes a bit of effort. The pay off is that as you're doing the work for many things with a 3 yr old, you can start teaching him over the next couple years how to do the work himself. You're giving him skills and tools for a lifetime rather than just asking him to figure it out on his own or get in trouble like so many people do. (And it's here that I often recommend the book, Raising a Thinking Child by Myrna Shure.)

Edited July 12, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[Princess Peach]

Joanne - I bookmarked your site and need to pour over it later when I have the time. I love the simplicity of it - so many parents need to get off their butts and actively parent their children. I'm talking to myself here! THANK YOU! :)

[twoforjoy]

Joanne - I bookmarked your site and need to pour over it later when I have the time. I love the simplicity of it - so many parents need to get off their butts and actively parent their children. I'm talking to myself here! THANK YOU! :)

 

:iagree: I love that site, even though right now, at 36-1/2 weeks pregnant, I'm kind of struggling with the actual getting off of my butt. ;)

[Pamela H in Texas]

I've gone to Joanne's site a few times in the past couple months. She and I were talking about this topic before she had the site, but...parenting is hard work sometimes (with awesome rewards).

[Trish]

I'm not familiar with the site, but to teach a 3yr old to be quiet, if you really, really, really need to keep him or her quiet, I think you'd go with the dog training style. Practice being quiet when you don't need for him or her to be quiet- Use treats and praise, hand signals, and key words. You will need to get him or her "barking" (loud) so you can then teach the quiet effectively, so the training needs to be done well before you expect the 3yr old to be quiet. Later, you can prepare the child that whenever you do the quiet code words and/or hand signals, he or she should remember and be quiet. Continue with praise and treats after she or he has done well in public as long as you need to.

 

Yeah, and make it sound cool, like "We're going into Secret Agent Mode" now!

[blondeviolin]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies! I do give options for him to do while I'm expecting him to be quiet. (Usually he gets to play an iPod touch, which is a BIG DEAL.) He WILL NOT be quiet, though, at the start of the meeting... (I'm talking mostly at church.) It's because he does not want to be there. I think he thinks that either he is winning by talking loudly and disturbing others around him or winning when I take him out because he isn't being quiet (and out is NOT FUN. AT ALL.).

 

The quiet required at bedtime is more defined as "not yelling". LOL Our rule at bedtime is that they are in their beds and they are (semi)quiet. We've told them several times that they don't have to go to sleep. They can stay up and read or look at pictures or have a quiet(ish) conversation with their stuffed animal/imaginary friend. What does he do? He yells. For this situation it is best to ignore the behavior, but then it feels like I'm allowing that rule to slide to my oldest, I think.

[LittleIzumi]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies! I do give options for him to do while I'm expecting him to be quiet. (Usually he gets to play an iPod touch, which is a BIG DEAL.) He WILL NOT be quiet, though, at the start of the meeting... (I'm talking mostly at church.) It's because he does not want to be there. I think he thinks that either he is winning by talking loudly and disturbing others around him or winning when I take him out because he isn't being quiet (and out is NOT FUN. AT ALL.).

 

I make out not fun at church as well, just by having the dc sit still on my lap just like in the meeting (which is piped in) but no one can hear them complaining. :tongue_smilie:

[anotherbrother]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies! I do give options for him to do while I'm expecting him to be quiet. (Usually he gets to play an iPod touch, which is a BIG DEAL.) He WILL NOT be quiet, though, at the start of the meeting... (I'm talking mostly at church.) It's because he does not want to be there. I think he thinks that either he is winning by talking loudly and disturbing others around him or winning when I take him out because he isn't being quiet (and out is NOT FUN. AT ALL.).

 

The quiet required at bedtime is more defined as "not yelling". LOL Our rule at bedtime is that they are in their beds and they are (semi)quiet. We've told them several times that they don't have to go to sleep. They can stay up and read or look at pictures or have a quiet(ish) conversation with their stuffed animal/imaginary friend. What does he do? He yells. For this situation it is best to ignore the behavior, but then it feels like I'm allowing that rule to slide to my oldest, I think.

 

Apologizing for the hijack above again. This again made me think of my now six year old. It isn't something that happens often anymore but a problem that we used to have frequently.

 

Why should I leave the store because he is misbehaving? He is misbehaving because he doesn't want to be there, therefore leaving is rewarding the behavior.

 

I'm not sure if I ever solved the problem or if he just outgrew it. I did walk through stores on more than one occasion with a not so happy or quiet baby, toddler, or older child, and sometimes all three. It helps to not worry what other people are thinking as they are walking by.

 

If I had to leave a place like church I would probably take them out to the car and put them in their car seat. I have been know to do that and stand right outside the car so that I was not interacting with them and they weren't receiving any feedback one way or the other. This almost always worked.

[LidiyaDawn]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies! I do give options for him to do while I'm expecting him to be quiet. (Usually he gets to play an iPod touch, which is a BIG DEAL.) He WILL NOT be quiet, though, at the start of the meeting... (I'm talking mostly at church.) It's because he does not want to be there. I think he thinks that either he is winning by talking loudly and disturbing others around him or winning when I take him out because he isn't being quiet (and out is NOT FUN. AT ALL.).

 

The quiet required at bedtime is more defined as "not yelling". LOL Our rule at bedtime is that they are in their beds and they are (semi)quiet. We've told them several times that they don't have to go to sleep. They can stay up and read or look at pictures or have a quiet(ish) conversation with their stuffed animal/imaginary friend. What does he do? He yells. For this situation it is best to ignore the behavior, but then it feels like I'm allowing that rule to slide to my oldest, I think.

 

can i make a suggestion? rather than focusing on what he's NOT supposed to be doing (negatives), focus on what he IS supposed to be doing (positive) ….

 

my ds12 (special needs) doesn't respond to "punishment" - never has. he'll just escalate - and he.will.win. :tongue_smilie:

 

my sneakiness? praise & rewards for the GOOD behaviour. he LOVES being told that he "impressed" me (with various adjectives -- "how impressed are you mom?" "i'm super 250 impressed!" --- the 250 is a special number to him -- *high five* ….

 

so let's say we're headed for somewhere that he needs to wait patiently (difficult for him) … i prepare him ahead (details) and tell him how "impressed" [or proud] i'm gonna be when (not "if"!) he shows us his bestest patient waiting ------he gets EXCITED about the waiting then (and we share that with him), and takes pride in doing his best to wait patiently…….i reinforce during the wait, reminding him (if needed) how awesome he's doing. he's tickled pink after, totally proud of himself….sometimes we send a text to dh --- he dictates.. "i did my best super killer dude waiting quietly!!" as he enjoys sharing his success.

 

[killer dude = a phrase from one of his fave toys that he likes to use]

 

punishing doesn't work for him…. he'll "fight back" … flip over the time out chair, yell, hit, kick, do the exact opposite of what he was told not to do (and laugh about it)

 

make sense? i'm one handed pecking with a newbie curled up asleep in my arms so i'm trying to explain with less keystrokes :laugh:

 

that would be my suggestion…try dropping the negative/punishment/NO …and go with positive/praise/encouragement/YES…..

 

also…don't set him up to fail. make sure that he CAN impress you -- don't take him somewhere with 'quiet waiting' when he's overtired, hungry, not feeling well, etc… know what i mean? how well do YOU behave when you're overtired and hungry? ;)

[eternalknot]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies! I do give options for him to do while I'm expecting him to be quiet. (Usually he gets to play an iPod touch, which is a BIG DEAL.) He WILL NOT be quiet, though, at the start of the meeting... (I'm talking mostly at church.) It's because he does not want to be there. I think he thinks that either he is winning by talking loudly and disturbing others around him or winning when I take him out because he isn't being quiet (and out is NOT FUN. AT ALL.).

 

 

I guess I'm not surprised you're having a problem with him being quiet at church or bedtime, if his "usual" treat for being quiet during other times is playing with the iTouch. In his 3 year old world, he's thinking along the lines: you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours! (You treat me to the iTouch, I'll be quiet for you.) When you ask/expect him to be quiet in church or at bedtime, he's thinking you've reneged on your end of the deal! :D I suppose maturity will eventually straighten that out in his mind.

 

Until then, good luck LOL.

[Carol in Cal.]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies! I do give options for him to do while I'm expecting him to be quiet. (Usually he gets to play an iPod touch, which is a BIG DEAL.) He WILL NOT be quiet, though, at the start of the meeting... (I'm talking mostly at church.) It's because he does not want to be there. I think he thinks that either he is winning by talking loudly and disturbing others around him or winning when I take him out because he isn't being quiet (and out is NOT FUN. AT ALL.).

 

 

 

I had this when dd was 3. She had always been able to be quiet in church; I supported her need to move around (as long as it was quietly), and fed her quiet snacks that we only used in church, and let her play with toys that did not crash or tinkle if they hit the floor. I whispered the lessons and prayers into her ears. Sermons were snack time (going back to while she still nursed, so about through age 2 1/3).

 

But at 3, when she started going to Sunday school as well, it was just too much.

 

So I encouraged her to run around the gym in the 15 minutes between Sunday school and church, to get the wiggles out a bit. And I worked hard on figuring out a non-rewarding way for her to leave church if she was too loud. That took some experimentation. Finally what was truly not a reward was she would go outside and sit on a bench and not be able to see me. (I could see her, but she didn't know that.) When she was ready to be quiet she could get up and come back inside, but she had to stay on the bench until then. She would sit out there and make weird noises mostly to prove a point, and then get tired of it and come back inside. I would meet her in the narthex encouragingly and we would go in together.

 

I never took her to the nursery. I felt that that was like saying, "Make noise and you'll be able to go play with toys!" I started out with sitting with her outside, but she thought that that was really fun...having! Mommy! all! to! myself! while everyone else is in church! Once I figured out the bench thing, I would stand in the narthex where I could see her but she couldn't see me, and so things were just kind of bleak for her. I probably wouldn't have done that, though, if she was the type to get up and run off. Still, even if she had done so, the street was very far away, and the playground had a gate, so there really was no danger and no attraction, and I could always see her and catch up with her before she got to either one.

 

I was sympathetic. Two hours is a long time for a 3 year old! But this was really important to me and to our family, so I persevered. And DD liked church (I always made it fun and grown up for her by teaching her the hymns. We also sang the liturgy in the car together, and enjoyed it.) so it was just a matter of getting past that transition to attending Sunday school as well that was difficult. I think it took about 2-3 months before things settled down again.

[Joanne]

Joanne -

 

I read your entire site. I'd love to hear what you have to say about "potty" talk. I have a six year old who loves nothing more than to spew naughty words at people. I think he primarily does it to get a reaction and after awhile there really isn't a choice but to react.

 

.

 

One valid option is to ignore. This will ultimately extinguish the behavior. What you focus on, you get more of. The problem with ignoring it is that it will make you feel permissive and worry he will grow up talking like that.

 

Another option is to remove any edgy friends, media, games, etc. If something is borderline in terms of attitude (for example, Arthur was an awful influence in our home due to the sibling relationships), you can remove it because *clearly* your son is not able to enjoy that media (or that friend) and still maintain family standards.

 

Finally, potty talk is dirty. Therefore, potty talk needs to be done in the bathroom. I'd escort him to the bathroom each time and let him know he can say WHATEVER he wants in the bathroom, and can come out when he's ready to honor your standards.

[Mommy22alyns]

One valid option is to ignore. This will ultimately extinguish the behavior. What you focus on, you get more of. The problem with ignoring it is that it will make you feel permissive and worry he will grow up talking like that.

 

Another option is to remove any edgy friends, media, games, etc. If something is borderline in terms of attitude (for example, Arthur was an awful influence in our home due to the sibling relationships), you can remove it because *clearly* your son is not able to enjoy that media (or that friend) and still maintain family standards.

 

Finally, potty talk is dirty. Therefore, potty talk needs to be done in the bathroom. I'd escort him to the bathroom each time and let him know he can say WHATEVER he wants in the bathroom, and can come out when he's ready to honor your standards.

 

 

:iagree: Potty talk belongs in the bathroom here. We rarely hear it.

[anotherbrother]

One valid option is to ignore. This will ultimately extinguish the behavior. What you focus on, you get more of. The problem with ignoring it is that it will make you feel permissive and worry he will grow up talking like that.

 

Another option is to remove any edgy friends, media, games, etc. If something is borderline in terms of attitude (for example, Arthur was an awful influence in our home due to the sibling relationships), you can remove it because *clearly* your son is not able to enjoy that media (or that friend) and still maintain family standards.

 

Finally, potty talk is dirty. Therefore, potty talk needs to be done in the bathroom. I'd escort him to the bathroom each time and let him know he can say WHATEVER he wants in the bathroom, and can come out when he's ready to honor your standards.

 

My husband and I will definitely work harder at ignoring the behavior. It doesn't necessarily make me feel permissive. It's more like I want to pull my hair out of my head and run screaming down the street. I do find that the older boys have a difficult time not tattling about the potty talk. Tattling isn't something that I encourage because it creates a huge he said, she said situation that I don't like. I think they do it more because it drives them equally crazy. On the other hand they are old enough to understand that if they ignore it, it should eventually stop.

 

Option two would be difficult, because it would cause the other children to be punished when they don't really deserve it. They also don't really watch anything that I can think of that involves this type of language.

 

Option three is a definite possibility. I'm a little bit afraid that it may turn in to the game that time out used to be as a two year old. He does still find that behavior funny on occasion. I'm not sure that I could keep him in the bathroom unless I locked him in there (which I don't plan on doing).

 

It seems as though for now our best option is number 1, possibly with a side of ear plugs.

 

You didn't exactly tell me something I didn't know, but it helps to be reminded that I need to be consistent with my discipline choices.

 

Thanks for the advice.

[anotherbrother]

:iagree: Potty talk belongs in the bathroom here. We rarely hear it.

 

 

I hate to say it, but that could possibly be a boy vs. girl thing. I know that's quite a stereotype, but I've rarely noticed potty talk problems with girls.

[myfatherslily]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. A lot of it hits home for me. Joanne, I'm reading your site with great interest (I mean, reading the site by the author that you know very well;)) It makes so much sense. And I must say, bedtime went waay more smoothly tonight when I just led the boys to the bathroom and said, "Time to brush your teeth," instead of going in there first and calling for them 4 times! I'll be reading more soon:)

[Mert]

Hee hee. This made me giggle.

 

Me too! ;)

[Joanne]

Apologizing for the hijack above again. This again made me think of my now six year old. It isn't something that happens often anymore but a problem that we used to have frequently.

 

Why should I leave the store because he is misbehaving? He is misbehaving because he doesn't want to be there, therefore leaving is rewarding the behavior.

 

I'm not sure if I ever solved the problem or if he just outgrew it. I did walk through stores on more than one occasion with a not so happy or quiet baby, toddler, or older child, and sometimes all three. It helps to not worry what other people are thinking as they are walking by.

 

 

I personally believe it is courtesy to leave a public place with a loud, continually upset child who is not de-escalating.

 

So much so that I believe it is rude to *stay* in public places with children who are (for whatever reason) having over-expression of their emotion.

 

I have never had a child misbehave to leave a place. I've had some too antsy for the setting, and not able to impose enough impulse control or care to change it. On those occassions, I leave because 1) see above and 2) there are behavioral standards for settings and if you aren't meeting them, you are not welcome in those settings.

 

I don't leave a store and then go to Chuck E. Cheese. :tongue_smilie:

 

I was also careful about stores, shopping, and the timing of shopping with my littles.

[anotherbrother]

I personally believe it is courtesy to leave a public place with a loud, continually upset child who is not de-escalating.

 

So much so that I believe it is rude to *stay* in public places with children who are (for whatever reason) having over-expression of their emotion.

 

I have never had a child misbehave to leave a place. I've had some too antsy for the setting, and not able to impose enough impulse control or care to change it. On those occassions, I leave because 1) see above and 2) there are behavioral standards for settings and if you aren't meeting them, you are not welcome in those settings.

 

I don't leave a store and then go to Chuck E. Cheese. :tongue_smilie:

 

I was also careful about stores, shopping, and the timing of shopping with my littles.

 

I agree to a certain extent about public places. I suppose I have different standards for different places. If it were a library or bank I would definitely leave. Target or Costco where it is already very loud, I probably wouldn't immediately rush out the door.

 

I certainly would never leave and go to Chuck E. Cheese. Home for a nap was always more like it.

[justamouse]

Hee hee. This made me giggle.

:iagree::D

[Joanne]

I certainly would never leave and go to Chuck E. Cheese. Home for a nap was always more like it.

 

:iagree:

[myfatherslily]

Joanne, what do you (or anyone else) suggest for the 3 year old who likes to get up a dozen times after being put to bed? And is very good at thinking of creative reasons to get up? "I'm thirsty" (mommy forgot his cup of water), "I need a diaper change" (potty training, but prefers to wait until he's wearing his night diaper to go), "I just want to give you a kiss!" (:001_wub:), and the more direct "I don't want to go to bed!"

 

I'm not a big fan of putting the same child to bed 6 times every night!

[Joanne]

Joanne, what do you (or anyone else) suggest for the 3 year old who likes to get up a dozen times after being put to bed? And is very good at thinking of creative reasons to get up? "I'm thirsty" (mommy forgot his cup of water), "I need a diaper change" (potty training, but prefers to wait until he's wearing his night diaper to go), "I just want to give you a kiss!" (:001_wub:), and the more direct "I don't want to go to bed!"

 

I'm not a big fan of putting the same child to bed 6 times every night!

 

My answers to the "creative" reasons for getting up are to ignore them. No water, no kisses, no creating reasons for the child to get out of bed. (Potty and water, of course, are assumed to be handled earlier).

 

I escort the child back to bed, with no words or lectures or indulgences or punishments, each and every time.

 

Now, in the background, you may want to consider dropping their nap if they still have one. Or a later bedtime. Or, in some cases, they actually need an earlier bedtime. A temporary "token economy" might be a consideration. 5 gold stars (one for each time bedtime happens without getting up) = some treat. I would encourage you to make the treat quality time, not food or material.

 

I'm not a fan of using a token economy as a rule, but in short term situations, I think they can be helpful.

[myfatherslily]

Thanks:) I'm such a pushover at bedtime. I'm not going to push it this week, cause he just started steroids for a small breathing issue, but next week we really need to buckle down. I often work at night after the kids go to bed and sometimes I get interrupted for up to an hour. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Sarah,

 

I highly suggest an earlier bedtime. Almost every preschooler I've met goes to bed after they get their second wind. Some compliant kids probably can be quiet well enough, but....It's just easier if you get them down before they get hyped back up (btw, every time we try an 8pm bedtime for whatever reason with our crew, we get everyone getting SUPER hyper at 7:30). So even though I know better, we push it sometimes.

 

Anyway, NO attention is the key when putting them back to bed. Escort to bed. The first time, you might say, "goodnight" firmly; but after that, NOTHING. And no squeezing, sighing, whining, yelling, or any other attention. He'll quit because he's not getting ANYTHING from it.

 

I greatly do not suggest losing the nap for a 3yr old. And if you do choose to go that way, there should be a long quiet time. Instead, make sure there is plenty going on during awake times. He needs plenty of mental challenge, sensory play, outside time, etc.

 

As for "token systems" (I don't think I've ever used that phrase) - I agree with Joanne. They are great when used rarely and for specific behaviors. I used one twice with my ds in order to change the ONE thing I wanted to change.

[Sharon H in IL]

From an old, static site that needs to be re-done.

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=54

 

It may be old and need updating, but it sure gets traffic from the ladies in my parenting group. ;)

[Carol in Cal.]

It is rare, almost unheard of, for me to disagree even slightly with Joanne and Pamela H about a parenting issue.

 

But I would add, regarding the sleep issue, that for a very young child, it might be reasonable (or not) to extend the bedtime ritual and help him get more ready to drop off. It depends how much you need him to just go to sleep vs. how much he might need to feel all loved and drowsy to do that easily. I agree that a simple lack of response/reward for getting up would be effective if you conclude that he has all the help he needs and just needs to lie down already, doggone it! But if you both would enjoy a longer routine or if you have reason to think that he genuinely needs one, because he's teething or going through a growth spurt or lacking one on one time, then I hope that you'll give yourself permission to give him that and to enjoy it with him. He is still awfully young.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Carol,

 

I think you're right :) Bedtime routine can be an important component of bedtime. It used to be THE suggestion of bedtime parenting. Though it was regularly in my suggestions, I didn't feel comfy continuing to add it due to people's perception of what it is and my own experience.

 

Now, I guess I'd suggest to people that a bedtime routine doesn't have to be 20 minutes of do this then that then the next thing and bed. Our bedtime "routine" is extremely informal. It starts over an hour before bedtime and is very low key and relaxed. It has the basic components we and our children need; but honestly, by the last hour of the day, I AM DONE. I just do not have a more formal structure in me. Additionally, with more challenging kiddos (my ds and some of my current kiddos), the more formal structure could be problematic. Predictability is the plus.

[Soror]

I love this! I have never seen this site but dh and I always said that we practiced the get off your butt parenting style! Thanks for the motivation- I have not been doing enough of getting off my butt lately! It makes such an absolutely phenomenal difference to be proactive. Another huge thing I have noticed here is modeling the behavior I want to see. My 4 yo whining, yep I whine and complain more than I should. Being respectful, quiet and talking nicely- yep-not always the best at those either. I am not naturally a calm spoken, soft voiced person- I really do have to work at it.

 

I also believe in setting them up for success- I find that warning them ahead of time of the rules, really does make a difference, as well as warning them before we leave. Ignoring has worked well for extinguishing some behaviors here ie if we don't ask nicely or politely I don't comply; ie "give me a cup of water(said very hasty and a bit nasty) is met by silence where as "can you please give me a cup of water mother" is met by "Yes, and thank you for asking so nicely". As a toddler dd1 would just scream like a banshee, she is a screamer, I found that just by taking her to her room, no words, just carry her there and leave she would quiet down. She is very social and if a behavior results in her being taken away from people than it serious motivation to stop.

 

Personally, I need to work on the phone manners here. I think we need to do roleplaying and I don't think I have been explicit enough about the rules. Also, our other big issue right now is sibling fighting, not all the time but it sure can get nasty at times.

Edited July 14, 2011 by soror
edited to make myself more coherent!