Can I have your view of Girl Scouts?

[KristenR]

My daughter will be 5 this summer and my dh and I have been talking about the possibility of joining Girl Scouts. I really don't know much about it other than the cookies. :confused:

My dh said his only concern was that Girl Scouts is not as intensive as Boy Scouts. He claims that he noticed a discrepancy when the Boy Scouts came to his planetarium they had a pretty rigorous set of facts they had to learn and understand before they got their badge. He liked that they really had to work for it. The Girl Scouts recently came in and he said that what they were required to know was substantially less difficult. Having three daughters, he found that a bit disheartening. He said he would rather find something as demanding as Boy Scouts. He also said that for a Boy Scout to become an Eagle Scout is a huge mark of distinction and he didn't think Girl Scouts have anything comparable.

I am ignorant of this and assumed that Boy and Girl Scouts were run by the same "organization" (if that's even the correct term) and would be similar- noting of course the differences in sex.

Is there any truth to these concerns? What are your views of the Scouts- whether girl or boy?

Is it worth the time and money? Or did you find something you like better?

How much time does it take up? I'm assuming that since the majority of its members are in public school everything would take place in evenings and weekends?

Is there some homeschooling equivalent that I don't know about?

[Aurelia]

I don't know too much about them either, though my mom was one. She really enjoyed it, but that was more than half a century ago, so I'm sure things have changed since then. I think both the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts started out as the same organization, but GS changed once it came to the US. (I might be wrong though, I only just started looking into it a couple of months back. Ariel is joining GS in the Fall.) Originally they were the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, and still are in Britain, though they just started letting girls join the Boy Scouts there because they focus on different things. I think you could have your daughter learn more about whatever topic she's trying to earn a badge for if you want. It would probably be even easier to do that if you don't join a troop (though it would have defeated the purpose for us, as I wanted to add ways for Ariel to socialize) or even lead a troop for homeschoolers.

 

As an alternative, Camp Fire USA is similar, but coed. I was a member in kindergarten through second grade, so I don't remember a lot other than we sang a lot, did "outdoor stuff", earned badges for completing certain things, sold candy once a year (actually my brother sold most of mine for me - he was 2 years younger and everyone thought he was adorable) and went camping.

 

HTH, at least a little.

[KarenNC]

GS and BS are very different organizations. Girl Scouts does have a service award similar to Eagle---the Gold Award, which requires at least 50 hours of work. http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/insignia/highest_awards/gold_award.html

 

There are homeschooling GS troops (particularly if you volunteer to lead one as I did ;)), but yes, most of the council level or service unit level activities (ie group activities) happen on the weekend (typically Saturday). GS troops seem, overall, to be more autonomous at the troop level than I've heard Boy Scouts to be. There is typically financial aid available for girls to participate in Scouts (including for books, uniforms, activity fees, etc) and the troops earn money through cookie sales and other fundraisers. GS do not have individual scout accounts from these, all the funds belong to the entire troop, which is, I believe, different than BS. It's been well worth it for our daughter (who was a Brownie, Junior and is now moving to Cadettes as she goes into 6th grade). Our troop meets twice a month, almost year round. Other troops might meet weekly.

 

I've not been involved in BS, so can't say how the requirements differ. The difficulty of the material in GS depends on which badges you want to earn and which of the badge activities are chosen. That said, all the badge books are being updated this fall (as part of the regular updating cycle), so no one really knows exactly what they will look like yet. The newest activities are Journeys, which I am not wild about, honestly, but will be required. As a leader, you would have a fair bit of leeway to interpret and make them into something that can work for your troop.

 

As to alternatives, the ones I know of that have some similarity to Scouting:

4H---can be focused on science, community service, etc as well as farm animals or horses, secular

American Heritage Girls---relatively new, set up as a Christian-specific alternative to Girl Scouts by folks who felt GS was too secular and liberal

Campfire--I think this is co-ed? We don't have this in our area that I know of, but I believe it is more popular in other areas, has been around a long time

Spiral Scouts--relatively new, co-ed, oriented toward Neopagan or other Earth-centered kids, developed as an alternative to Boy Scouts

Y Adventure Princesses--through the YMCA, for dads and girls ages 5-12, not sure of how much of a religious focus there is

 

Some religious denominations have something specific to their denomination:

Unitarian Universalists have Navigators (which is very small and very new)

I believe the Assembly of God and other Pentecostal churches (?) may have Royal Rangers/Missionettes

 

There may be other groups that I don't know about as well.

[ColoNative]

I would do some research first. I don't know what your views are, so if this doesn't apply, you can disregard it. Anyway, as I have reviewed what the GS stands for, it is apparent that they have been moving toward a more feminist approach. As I said, I don't want to offend, so if this is O.K. with you, then disregard.

 

Here is a website to peruse and see what you think regarding the direction GS is heading:

 

http://www.speaknowgirlscouts.com/

 

Again, I'm not trying to spark controversy here because I'm sure others will give a different story. I believe in viewing all sides and being able to make a discerning decision.

[black_midori]

My first thought was... "BORING!!!"

 

I'm afraid I always found Girl Scouts to be dull dull dull - I was NOT a very "girly-girl" and I didn't like crafts very much... seemed like that is pretty much all they did in GS when I was there, so I dropped out before too long. Now, as an adult, I have talked to several ladies with girls in GS and it sounds like it is still pretty much the same.

 

My 7yo is in CubScouts right now, though, and I think that is very cool! They do SO MUCH hands-on stuff (stuff I would have loved to do as a GS) - our pack especially is always doing field trips and building things to race, etc. My friend's 11yo girl comes with her brother to do the "sibling group" (basically the sisters of scouts who want to do the same things as the CS) - she says it is way more fun than the GS group she is in.

 

On a side note - they are implementing trials in a few areas of allowing girls into CubScouts - I think that is GREAT and I really hope they expand it.

 

When kids get a bit older, I think that there is a BS off-shoot that allows girls (I can't remember the name right now).

 

If I had a girl (2 boys, here!) I would go for either the CubScouts sibling group or a 4H group.

[clarkacademy]

I would not take any opinion from a public blog that could have been written by a angry mother period. I had two girls in scouts one for years and her leader was a wonderful Christian woman who had been a leader for over 20 years. Yes they teach girls to stand on their own so to speak but not in the way some people are stating.

 

I no longer do scouts as I got tired of selling stuff. My oldest lost interest after becoming older and my youngest didn't want to new troop in the place we moved. She is very shy so that has alot to do with it. The gs had been in the media as of last year and when the gs council had been questioned they had no idea of what statements others had made in their name.

 

If your interested I suggest finding a troop and trying it out. Your girls may enjoy it. I would not be reading blogs from a parent who might have been having a fit over her kid not selling enough cookies. I also wouldn't worry about it being rigorous or whatever as it is meant to be fun and I know the bs around here have a time keeping people because their kids say it is no fun. Which is why the 4H is huge.

 

I also know that if you research bs you can find plenty of questionable things about them as everything else you research. We are probally done with scouts but I look back and the girls have nothing but great memories including praying before meals and such. I find it sad when people put down organizations on a public blog.

[Burger]

My daughter has been in girl scouts, and it is much different than boy scouts. Imo, gs has been a fun time for dd, not so much about educational experiences. She loves it. They sing songs, do crafts, and go on a campout 3 times/year. We also had an end of the year party with the leftover cookie money at a waterpark.

 

It is also MUCH cheaper (again, my experience only) than boy scouts. We paid $12 to join, and my total at the girl scout shop for her sash and badges I had to purchase was less than $30. This past year we earned so much from cookie sales that our leader paid everyone's fees for next year.

 

You can always go sit in on a troop meeting and see if it's something your daughter would enjoy.

 

This is the girl scout promise/law. When we were EC's, the church did not want us to participate, and I think this had something to do with it:

 

The Girl Scout Promise

On my honor, I will try:

To serve God and my country,

To help people at all times,

And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

 

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be

honest and fair,

friendly and helpful,

considerate and caring,

courageous and strong, and

responsible for what I say and do,

and to

respect myself and others,

respect authority,

use resources wisely,

make the world a better place, and

be a sister to every Girl Scout.

[calandalsmom]

The trumped up "christian" (anything but, really) reactionary nonsense about GS promoting abortion and "feminism" (ie allowing girls have an interest in things other than cookery and babysitting) is exactly that- nonsense.

 

I have found Daisies to be a very gently educational little program, with cute field trips and projects and general knowledge and confidence building. My dd loves the sings and the crafts.

 

My boys were/ are heavily involved with BSA, as well. I expect my oldest to be an Eagle Scout. My younger is sports oriented and scouts became too much.

 

Everything depends on leadership with GSA. If you have a quality leader you will have a good experience.

 

I do prefer the organization of Cubs/ BSA- pack, den/ troop patrol etc. GSA has each troop independent and unconnected it seems.

[lmrich]

It ALL depends on your leader and troop. GS is not nearly as strict as Boy Scouts. (My mom worked for GS and brother -in-law for BS). I view GS as a social activity and not to teach them anything. If they learn something in the process - great - but I would not be worried that the Boy Scouts have more requirements to earn badges. Aren't you going to ensure that your dd learns what she needs to, regardless if she earns a badge?

[lisak]

Another new organization popping up is called Frontier Girls. You might take a look at it.

 

My daughters have been in Girl Scouts for 10 years now. My oldest stopped after her Junior experience. She loved it, learned many new things, tried new things, made friends, and it was great. My younger daughter is a Cadette now. I am not as thrilled with this program as the younger ones. Last year her group spent the entire year working toward the Silver Award and it has a requirement of a Journey and the one they did had to do with smoking. It seemed to drag on forever. But on the other hand, I was simply dropping her off and not very involved. Our troops are all homeschoolers and homeschool mom's teaching and leading the girls. We typically have an organizational meeting in August to plan the new year. Our troops have all of their monies together in one account and group activities are paid for out of those monies. Also, our activities are family oriented for the most part.

 

There are a lot of changes coming up with the Journey books and badges changing. I don't have a good handle on the changes, but the local council shop has a picture of the new books and will discuss the changes. Maybe you can contact your nearest council and discuss with them the changes and see if you will like the program and if it will be a good fit for your family.

[WiseOwlKnits]

It totally depends on your troop leader. My DD has been in GS for 2 years - she started as a Daisy and is moving to Brownie this next year. I'm a GS leader and I think we have a GREAT troop and the girls definitely learned a lot. We go camping twice a year. The girls have learned how to build campfires, have planned and cooked their own meals, etc. We're also a very service-oriented troop. Over the last year, our troop of 9 girls who were all 6/7 visited nursing homes. We collected 400 pounds of food for our local food pantry. We adopted a family at Christmas - all the girls bought a present for a child in the family, we wrapped them, and delivered them to the family. We cleaned up a riverbed that runs through a park that we play at often because it was full of bottles, plastic bags, etc.

 

There is an Eagle Scout level award for Girl Scouts - it's the Gold Award. Like the Eagle Scout, it allows you to enter the military at a higher rank simply because you have it. I've been told there are scholarships given by universities that are only available to GS who have their Gold Award.

 

The amount of money it costs depends on the troop. National dues are $12/girl/year. For our troop, dues, are $15/year. Other than that, the only fees are the vest...which runs about $35 when they change levels. I know other troops that charge a LOT more than that for dues so again it's something that varies by troop.

 

Our troop meets 3 times per month - once for a meeting, once for a fun activity (park day, roller skating, pottery painting, etc.), and once for a service project. Our monthly meeting lasts about an hour. Our fun activity and service project are about 2 hours each. We have 2 homeschoolers in our group and the rest are public schoolers so we do stuff when everyone is out of school. The troop leader decides how often/long you meet.

 

If you're interested, I'd find a few different troops and talk to the leaders about how their troop is run. See if you find one that's a good fit for you. Or, start your own! They're always looking for troop leaders. If you have any more questions, I'm happy to try to answer them. :)

[zenjenn]

I was a Girl Scout as a child and am now entering my 4th year as a Girl Scout leader.

 

Here's my absolutely HONEST assessment, which is not all rosy yet I am still committed to the organization.

 

- Regarding GSUSA vs BSA: they are two totally different organizations. Some of the differences I like, and some I don't. BSA has a stricter, more centralized and rarely-changing curriculum, while GSUSA is more flexible, has a "pathways" approach that allows many troops to be run in many different ways. I like the freedom that this gives me as a leader, and I think I run a pretty darn AWESOME troop, but, as a parent, you can't always know what you are getting when you sign up quite like you can with BSA. With GSUSA it is imperative that you meet the leader and get to know that particular troop's approach to scouting, because approaches can vary dramatically from troop to troop.

 

GSUSA also encourages more independence of the younger girls, where BSA tends to hand-hold cub scouts. At the older ages, in BSA the expectations shoot up drastically, and GSUSA at that point tends to hold back girls due to more rigorous (too rigorous, IMO) safety policies. Girls scouts with a real thirst for adventure often end up joining Boy Scout Venturing (which is open to girls at age 14) or Sea Scouts or something. You can still do a lot through GSUSA, but finding willing leaders to do such things is difficult, and those leaders have to jump through a lot of hoops to follow all the policies.

 

That said, GSUSA prides itself on having a much lower rate of injury/incident compared to BSA.

 

- Regarding GSUSA's "feminist" or "liberal" curriculum: I won't lie - some of the materials put out by GSUSA are convoluted at best and drivel at worst and has a subtle-to-the-girls but obvious-to-the-adult left-leaning bias. The truth is, many - if not most - leaders are moderate to conservative, or at least want to keep politics out of scouting. And GSUSA at least has enough sense to keep the materials open-ended enough so that girls can do the activities to be consistent with their personal religious beliefs and values (this is also what makes materials somewhat convoluted at times). For example, environmentalism is a recurring theme, and some of the examples are a little bleeding-heart and/or alarmist, but the activities are easily adopted by anyone to be about the kind of responsible environmental stewardship and frugal use of resources that just about anyone values. Again, as said above, scouting activities in GSUSA are flexible and leaders can always approve a modification as long as there is relative equivalence.

 

- Regarding accusations of GSUSA being "anti-Christian": Complete bogus, though the program is more flexibly inclusive of secularists than BSA. "God" is included in the Girl Scout Promise and Law ("On my honor, I will try to serve God and my country"), though girls are invited to replace/omit that section of the Promise to reflect their own religious beliefs (or lack thereof) if they desire. GSUSA recognizes and supports ALL religious scouting awards, and recognizes service to a religious community as viable service hours for any award that requires service (which is virtually all of them.) It is Girl Scout tradition to sing graces/fun prayer songs before eating at camp, for example, and this remains the tradition.

 

There is a scouting program called "American Heritage Girls" that is more similar to BSA in the way it is run, but it is also even LESS inclusive than BSA. I looked into the program because I *do* have my problems with GSUSA, but AHG wouldn't even permit me to be a leader because I am a Jew. Not cool, IMO.

 

I have many religious Christian girls in my troop who have chosen Girl Scouts over AHG because the parents want their girls in an inclusive group, and they are confident that I as a leader am not running a program that is inconsistent with their values. I do not shy away from activities such as Christmas Caroling or an egg hunt if that is what my girls want to do, and I am sure my parents have access to information about religious scouting awards for their denomination that they can earn through their churches if they wish. I do not shy away from doing community service for Christian organizations, and we have every year so far as Christian charities are the most viable charities serving our local area. Some GS leaders, however, take an almost public-school approach to religion. It is not strictly necessary however. Religion does not need to be completely ommitted from Girl Scouts.

 

 

We are a traditional Judeo-Christian troop with Christian, Jewish, and secular scouts, and we do a balance of activities. I work hard to make my scouts educational, a worthwhile use of time as well as a fun social group.

 

So in a nutshell, I do agree it depends on your leader. The inverse of that, if you are willing to lead, you can really make your troop whatever you (and your girls/parents) want it to be. My biggest beef with GSUSA is that if for some reason I became unable or unwilling to lead my daughters' troops, there is absolutely no guarantee I could find another troop that would provide them with an experience I think of as worthwhile. Unlike BSA, where the experience is much more consistent across the nation.

Edited June 19, 2011 by zenjenn

[LadyChadwick]

I have children in both GS and Cubs. I prefer the Cubscouts, but as yet in my area they do not allow girls in.

 

I find running the GS troop makes a huge difference, we require more for our children - though age based. Meaning the daisy group doesn't have very strict requirements to earn a fun badge for going to the observatory. The jr level however does have a stricter list.

 

If you decide to join, know the troop leader in question is far more important than the various national level policies. The new changes they are making (but not sharing with us) will effect things as well.

 

If you join one troop looking for camping, or crafts, or speaking/survival skills - you may find what you want right off the bat. Or you may go through several troops - or need to start your own.

 

I find that the alternatives are not that great of a fit. 4H only goes camping if I choose to lead a camping thing (my kids are in 4H for things like robotics, and public speaking though). the various new super Christian groups tend to be so far on the 'girls are homemakers' side they they turn me off. the Y has a group thing, but it is so expensive. YMMV

 

Instead I bring my whole family on all cub events that I can and we try our best to make our GS troop as much like a Cub pack as we can. If cub Scouting ever goes co-ed we will be switching to a whole family of cubs!

[DaffodilDreams]

Dd tried it and was pretty bummed it wasn't as adventurous as what she imagined scouting should be (she has heard stories of Boy Scouts from her dad and wanted something similar), so she didn't continue after the first year. I think a lot of the feel of each troop depends on the leader, and we seem to have an abundance of very girly leaders here.

 

In our experience, your dh is right about the badges. It was very easy to earn badges in dd's troop.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I was a co-leader for 3 years and a leader for 2 years. I was the registrar and event planner for our service unit for 3 years and now two of my girls are in GS. I'm very happy with one of the troops and very un-happy with the other. Regardless of what you learn about GS through the website or talking to a rep from your local council or people here, the experience your dd has is all going to depend on the troop and troop leader that you end up with. They can be gung ho, taking badge earning seriously and getting their troop involved in lots of council sponsered events and planning lots of troop enrichment activities. Or, you could end up with a troop leader that thinks doing noodle art and taking trips to the local Build-A-Bear are the limit of her capabilities.

 

Earning badges (or petals at the Daisy level) can be taken seriously or not by the troop leader. You could get a leader that makes sure the girls are fullfilling the requirements 100% or you could get one that just lets the girls skate by doing the bare minimum and still get awarded the achievment. Once you purchase the badge book you could certainly do the activities to earn badges at home but doing them with a group are certainly more fun.

 

 

If you want to get involved my suggestion would be to contact a couple of troops (you can call your local council and request contact information) and talk to the leaders to get an idea of their philosophy in running a troop. Keep in mind that sometimes troops may start out gung ho and then loose steam after a couple of years. You may end up needing to switch troops if your dd wants to stay involved.

 

Good Luck!

[Firestar Academy]

I also, was a scout for a few years as a child and am just finishing up my 6th year as leader. I also hold various positions in my town (called service units) as well as a paid, seasonal staff member of girl scouts. (Just so you know where I am coming from). I have 2 daughters.

 

I want to reiterate what others have said, it TOTALLY depends on the leader for the TROOP experience. While i have always been the troop leader for my older daughter, I have not always been the troop leader for my younger. As a leader, I/the girls plan 2-3 trips a month, a couple service projects a year, sell fall product (nuts/candy/magazines) and cookies in the winter. I never do crafts, I don't know how and i don't own glue. As a mom (for my second daughter) I saw her do nothing but crafts, attend silly workshops, and use cookie money for a trip to NY to the american girl store.

 

Both experiences were different, and my daughters loved both of those experiences.

 

Some troops never camp, some camp every month.

same troops do crafts, some don't

some troops meet after school, some in the evenings, some on weekends.

 

There are as many different troops as there are leaders as girls and not every troop is for every girl. And scouting isn't for everyone.

 

I see a range of girls when I am working for GS. I am a canoe instructor and work on weekends for troops who come to camp and want to learn basics of canoeing. i see girls itching to get in canoes and GO and see (some) moms not willing to let them go without them in the canoe with them. seriously.

 

As for your story of the planetarium, I can compare it to school field trips. The public school kids are there with their list of items to learn about while homeschoolers are there just to learn what they can. Both ways are beneficial; just different. For some girl scout badges, visiting a planetarium is just one requirement out of 6 or 8 total requirements. Maybe they were just there for the experience and not working on a badge at all.

 

Girls in scouting can decide the direction of their troop even at the youngest levels. just like with homeschooling curriculum. We can let the child rule the curriculum or let the cirruculum rule the child. It all depends upon the leader.

 

I really could go on and on about the pros and cons. As for me, I will be working at Girl scout summer camp in a few weeks taking some older girls white water rafting. My older daughter's troop will be using much of their cookie money to take a trip http://www.woodloch.com/home starting next monday. Then I will be stepping down as their leader. (See forum thread http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280909)

 

Robin in NJ

[Firestar Academy]

I was a co-leader for 3 years and a leader for 2 years. I was the registrar and event planner for our service unit for 3 years and now two of my girls are in GS. I'm very happy with one of the troops and very un-happy with the other. Regardless of what you learn about GS through the website or talking to a rep from your local council or people here, the experience your dd has is all going to depend on the troop and troop leader that you end up with. They can be gung ho, taking badge earning seriously and getting their troop involved in lots of council sponsered events and planning lots of troop enrichment activities. Or, you could end up with a troop leader that thinks doing noodle art and taking trips to the local Build-A-Bear are the limit of her capabilities.

 

Earning badges (or petals at the Daisy level) can be taken seriously or not by the troop leader. You could get a leader that makes sure the girls are fullfilling the requirements 100% or you could get one that just lets the girls skate by doing the bare minimum and still get awarded the achievment. Once you purchase the badge book you could certainly do the activities to earn badges at home but doing them with a group are certainly more fun.

 

 

If you want to get involved my suggestion would be to contact a couple of troops (you can call your local council and request contact information) and talk to the leaders to get an idea of their philosophy in running a troop. Keep in mind that sometimes troops may start out gung ho and then loose steam after a couple of years. You may end up needing to switch troops if your dd wants to stay involved.

 

Good Luck!

 

:iagree:

 

robin in NJ

[khall]

There are as many different troops as there are leaders as girls and not every troop is for every girl. And scouting isn't for everyone.

 

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I don't think it is really a difference in whether it's Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts, but more of a difference in who the leader is. Our experience has been that Daisy Scouts was a total joke and DD got nothing out of it, yet "earned" all her petals. A different leader took over for Brownies and the past few years have been excellent. Lots of trips and hands on activities, and girls only are awarded badges when they have actually met all the requirements.

 

Cub Scouts ended up being the opposite. First grade was fantastic, with lots of exploring the community and hands on learning. New leader took over the end of the year and it was terrible. She did NOTHING with the boys, but gave them badges every month. We ended up dropping out partway through third grade. DS dreaded going to the meetings at that point.

 

See if you can sit in on some meetings and see what the troop is doing. Then you should be able to tell what kind of leader you're getting and what kind of activities are being done.

[kristinannie]

I was a girl scout up until the end of the jr high and earned my silver award (which was a lot of work). I think it was a really great experience. That said, I have a lot of Catholic friends from across the country that have pulled their kids from scouting because they have been given pamphlets about Planned Parenthood. Apparently, one friend of mine had her child that earned a badge that required basic sex education (I think it was in junior high). I honestly don't think that people who complain about these things are just "Mom's whose kids didn't sell enough cookies." Just like I think our state superintendent is wrong when she says that "all homeschoolers are just parents who get mad at a teacher and pull their kids out of school."

 

I honestly think that it depends on the leader of the troop you are looking at. I am not sure about putting my daughter into scouts at this point (she is only 3). If I do, I will either be the leader or be very involved to make sure that things are going well. Like anything in life, it is up to each individual parent to make sure that the situation they are sending their kids into is what they want.

[In The Great White North]

The major difference between BSA and GSUSA is the program. Leaders are important in both (in everything!) but in GSUSA, most girls, parents and leaders (that I've met) don't like or use the program materials as written so the experience you get is more dependent on the leader. In fact, they haven't liked the last several iterations of program materials, so the issue is now traditional.

 

The new Journeys are a perfect example. They are overwhelmingly unpopular with girls, parents and leaders. I have heard no positive comments IRL about them at any level, and only read a couple of positive comments here. Leaders have to bend over backwards to make them palatable, let alone interesting for the girls.

 

The "Paths" they talk about sound great, til you read more closely and realize that the girls have to do the Journeys to get any major awards (Bronze, Silver, Gold), no matter what "Path" they are on. The Journeys are the program.

 

So, if you are in a troop that goes camping, hiking, building fires, etc; that is because the leader is focusing on that in spite of the program, not because of the program.

 

If you have a troop that does a lot of field trips, that is because the leader is focusing on that in spite of the program, not because of the program.

 

You can see how important it is to either be the leader or to pick your leader very carefully.

[2_girls_mommy]

That said, I have a lot of Catholic friends from across the country that have pulled their kids from scouting because they have been given pamphlets about Planned Parenthood.

 

I have heard these rumors too, and had moms in our troop question us on this. We have received the scout's official stance on this in writing to give out to our parents of our girls. They do not support PP. They have no affiliation with them, and think it is a family's right to teach what they believe on s*xuality, etc. I could search for the official email, but I do not feel like it right now.

 

I believe any incidents of the kind that have come up have been due to the planning of the leaders.

 

Anyway, I don't have boys in the BSA, but I do know they are very different organizations. I think I personally like how BSA is run better too. But your dh needn't worry about the Eagle scout award. Like others have said, the silver and Gold awards are very good.

Edited June 19, 2011 by 2_girls_mommy
crazy misspellings, as usual :)

[KristenR]

Thank you to everyone that has taken the time to give such heartfelt and honest advice. I think my next step will be to check out some local troop and meet the troop leaders. I think I will also take some time to search for alternatives. I'll have to look into things like 4-h and see if its what I'm searching for.

 

What I envisioned was something that my dc could grow with. That they would have to work hard for to move up on. I would prefer something secular with no political leanings. I would love for my girls to do things like camping and learning to make a fire. I'm also fine with them learning "homemaker" skills like sewing and cooking since that is something they will sorely be lacking in my teaching.

I don't see myself wanting to be a troop leader at this time. With my younger girls right behind my 5 year old, and myself just now starting on my homeschooling adventure I can honestly say I don't see myself being able to commit any additional time and energy. Maybe when I get a few years of homeschooling under my belt, and feel more confident, I will rexamine my position and maybe at that time I will be able to dedicate time to being a troop leader.

[Firestar Academy]

The major difference between BSA and GSUSA is the program. Leaders are important in both (in everything!) but in GSUSA, most girls, parents and leaders (that I've met) don't like or use the program materials as written so the experience you get is more dependent on the leader. In fact, they haven't liked the last several iterations of program materials, so the issue is now traditional.

 

The new Journeys are a perfect example. They are overwhelmingly unpopular with girls, parents and leaders. I have heard no positive comments IRL about them at any level, and only read a couple of positive comments here. Leaders have to bend over backwards to make them palatable, let alone interesting for the girls.

 

The "Paths" they talk about sound great, til you read more closely and realize that the girls have to do the Journeys to get any major awards (Bronze, Silver, Gold), no matter what "Path" they are on. The Journeys are the program.

 

So, if you are in a troop that goes camping, hiking, building fires, etc; that is because the leader is focusing on that in spite of the program, not because of the program.

 

If you have a troop that does a lot of field trips, that is because the leader is focusing on that in spite of the program, not because of the program.

 

You can see how important it is to either be the leader or to pick your leader very carefully.

:iagree: VERY well written

 

robin in nj

[Firestar Academy]

I don't see myself wanting to be a troop leader at this time. With my younger girls right behind my 5 year old, and myself just now starting on my homeschooling adventure I can honestly say I don't see myself being able to commit any additional time and energy. Maybe when I get a few years of homeschooling under my belt, and feel more confident, I will rexamine my position and maybe at that time I will be able to dedicate time to being a troop leader.

 

There are sooooo many other ways to volunteer with a troop besides a leader or co-leader. You could be a snack mom and make sure there was always a healthy snack. you could be cookie mom, very intensive 8 week commitment. you could be the first aider (FA/CPR certified), you get to go on all the trips. You could be trip planner and plan cool places to go. Help with paperwork, forms and permission slips. You could take the camp training and be the camp mom (or have your hubby do it), that way you can be sure the troop goes camping.

 

Robin in NJ

[abbeyej]

Not even remotely the same. I *wish* there were something like Boy Scouts for my dd. I really don't think there's a true equivalent for girls, though certainly *some* GS troops are very good.

[pereztribe]

I really don't know too much about GS other than the cookies, so I can't help you there, however, my daughter is in a scouting troop called American Heritage Girls. They start @ 5yrs. and go all the way to High School. Unlike the GS, we ARE affliated with the Boy Scouts. I love that the troop is very Christ Centered. Many badges are related to God, Country, and Community. Our creed is:

 

"As an American Heritage Girl, I promise to love God, cherish my family, Honor my Country, and serve in my Community."

 

Please check out the website...

www.ahgonline.org

 

Hope this helps. My dd has been in it for a whole year and LOVES it.

[mom2scouts]

As a former Girl Scout and a huge supporter of Boy Scouts, I do NOT plan on putting my daughter in Girl Scouts. The two organizations are very, very different. We've seen many girls leaving Girl Scouts as soon as they turn 14 so they can join the co-ed Boy Scout program called Venturing. I got involved in Boy Scouts over 20 years ago and I'm still very involved. I was shocked at how much better and more demanding the Boy Scout program was compared to what I knew about GS. Of course both programs are led by volunteers and the individual leaders can have a huge impact on your experience, but overall I think Boy Scouts is better run. Lately I have heard many negative comments about Girl Scouts by parents and former leaders. For us personally, we don't like the current extremely feminist slant that Girl Scouts has recently taken, so we'll find other opportunities for our daughter. As a former Girl Scout, it makes me very sad to see the direction of the organization.

[zenjenn]

Unlike the GS, we ARE affliated with the Boy Scouts.

 

That is not true. AHG and Boy Scouts signed "an agreement of mutual support" but they are not technically affiliated organizations. They are separate.

 

AHG is Christian. BSA is God-centered but inclusive of other faiths (and really, IMO, atheists as long as the atheist is willing to respect the idea of "God" as the Judeo-Christian ethic.)

 

AHG very specifically does not allow non-Christian adults to be leaders, and some activities are Christian and not really that adaptable to non-Christian girls.

 

It is AHG's prerogative to discriminate against Jews and non-Christians, I suppose, but I see scouting as something where children of diverse backgrounds come to learn skills and perform community service together. Just my perspective.

 

By the way, there are other options too such as 4-H, Campfire, Native American Daughters (formally Indian Princesses), etc.

Edited June 20, 2011 by zenjenn

[JessieC]

DD6 is in Daisy Scouts, and I don't know that it has been particularly educational, but she has fun. She likes hanging out with a group of girls her age, doing crafts, singing songs, and going on various outings, like camping for the weekend. I think it's a great (and affordable) opportunity to get her to make new friends with other girls just her age in our town. It doesn't seem political to me at all. As a secular mom, I'm not thrilled with "God" in the pledge, but whatever.

[JessieC]

Not even remotely the same. I *wish* there were something like Boy Scouts for my dd. I really don't think there's a true equivalent for girls, though certainly *some* GS troops are very good.

 

I wish there was a boy equivalent of the Girl Scouts for my DS!

 

I'm just not comfortable with the Christian conservative agenda of BSA.

[abbeyej]

...Unlike the GS, we ARE affliated with the Boy Scouts....

?? Don't they just have the same "mutual support" deal that BS has with GS and a number of other organizations?

 

Or are they actually affiliated in some way?

[truebluexf]

I wish there was a boy equivalent of the Girl Scouts for my DS!

 

I'm just not comfortable with the Christian conservative agenda of BSA.

 

Honestly, like anything...check out the troop. They are all different. BSA has religious badges for different religions, and I haven't seen anything offensive (I'm Jewish.)

 

I wish the GS was more like BS, but again, I think different troops are different. DD1 would really like to do something more substantial with her scout time, so we are considering a troop move even though I really like the idea of being in a homeschool troop like we are now.

 

I may be alone, but I don't like the idea of girls being allowed in Cub Scouts. I really like each of my kids to get their own time...girl time and boy time. It's a different dynamic, and I hate to see that destroyed.

[ChiknGirl]

This year my dd's GS troop did a year long service project at an assisted living facility, learned to geocache, camped including learning outdoor skills, practiced leaving no trace and cleaning up local parks, practiced tying knots, had a sleepover at the Pacific Science Center where they learned about robotics and lots more activities. Yes they have also done some cutesy crafts and scrapbooking, but there has been plenty of meat considering the girls are K-3.

 

I would love to find a secular version of the BS for my son to join. I disagree with some of their policies and feel I cannot support their organization.

[Shellydon]

In our experience, the leaders of the troop are what determines how fun, or how rigorous the activities are. My girls have been involved in a homeschool troop for 4 years and they love it. We have girls ranging in age from 5-17, which is great. The activities the leaders plan are fun and we do not focus on constantly earning patches. The goal of our troop is to get our homeschooled girls some regular social interaction in a fun way.

[TracyR]

I'm a Girl Scout leader and honestly I've read posts about GS supporting Pro Choice yet I've not seen anything in what I have or what comes my way from our meetings to say any such thing.

 

I am a GS leader for the Catholic School in our area and honestly its nothing like Boy Scouts. I wish it were a little more sometimes because the girls at a certain point lose interest and its rare you get anyone going past Junior GS. My oldest has been a GS since she was 5 and she is now going to be a 3rd year Cadette. But she was the only Cadette I had. I had two Juniors, 2 Brownies and about 6 Daisies.

GS are just really arts and crafts, and you may find some badge activities that require a field trip or someone to come in and do some speaking on a particular subject. But its still nothing like Boy Scouts.

The curriculum after Juniors is pretty boring and I think that's why the GS's have such a high drop out rate after Juniors. Its rare at all if you get someone to actually go all the way through the program.

I will admit the Bronze , Silver and Gold awards do take some time to complete and can be challenging to do. But other then that GS's is what you make of it. It really is.

I had fun being a leader this year. I plan on doing it again for next year. I'm not sure how long I'll continue to do it but it is fun to see the kids enjoy it. I know the younger ones wanted to have GS's ever week! LOL

[TracyR]

Honestly, like anything...check out the troop. They are all different. BSA has religious badges for different religions, and I haven't seen anything offensive (I'm Jewish.)

 

I wish the GS was more like BS, but again, I think different troops are different. DD1 would really like to do something more substantial with her scout time, so we are considering a troop move even though I really like the idea of being in a homeschool troop like we are now.

 

I may be alone, but I don't like the idea of girls being allowed in Cub Scouts. I really like each of my kids to get their own time...girl time and boy time. It's a different dynamic, and I hate to see that destroyed.

 

The Girl Scouts also have religious awards as well. Its not part of the program per say as you can chose to add it to your troop curriculum or not. I'm not sure if its integrated in the Boy Scouts program. But its an optional thing for the Girl Scouts. For the Girl SCouts they offer religious awards for all different types of faiths. From different Christian denominations , to Muslium to even Buddist.

[Alessandra]

The major difference between BSA and GSUSA is the program. Leaders are important in both (in everything!) but in GSUSA, most girls, parents and leaders (that I've met) don't like or use the program materials as written so the experience you get is more dependent on the leader. In fact, they haven't liked the last several iterations of program materials, so the issue is now traditional.

 

The new Journeys are a perfect example. They are overwhelmingly unpopular with girls, parents and leaders. I have heard no positive comments IRL about them at any level, and only read a couple of positive comments here. Leaders have to bend over backwards to make them palatable, let alone interesting for the girls.

 

The "Paths" they talk about sound great, til you read more closely and realize that the girls have to do the Journeys to get any major awards (Bronze, Silver, Gold), no matter what "Path" they are on. The Journeys are the program.

 

So, if you are in a troop that goes camping, hiking, building fires, etc; that is because the leader is focusing on that in spite of the program, not because of the program.

 

If you have a troop that does a lot of field trips, that is because the leader is focusing on that in spite of the program, not because of the program.

 

You can see how important it is to either be the leader or to pick your leader very carefully.

 

:iagree:I have dc in BS & GS and have volunteered a lot in both. The BS have a rigorous, hands-on program, GS not so much IMO. I think that it is much easier for a BS leader to do a good job, because (in Cub Scouts) there are great manuals, plus lots of supporting materials, even online lesson plans. The GS program is all over the place -- and, like most people, i wish that the Journeys would simply disappear.

 

As a former Girl Scout and a huge supporter of Boy Scouts, I do NOT plan on putting my daughter in Girl Scouts. The two organizations are very, very different. We've seen many girls leaving Girl Scouts as soon as they turn 14 so they can join the co-ed Boy Scout program called Venturing. I got involved in Boy Scouts over 20 years ago and I'm still very involved. I was shocked at how much better and more demanding the Boy Scout program was compared to what I knew about GS. Of course both programs are led by volunteers and the individual leaders can have a huge impact on your experience, but overall I think Boy Scouts is better run. Lately I have heard many negative comments about Girl Scouts by parents and former leaders. For us personally, we don't like the current extremely feminist slant that Girl Scouts has recently taken, so we'll find other opportunities for our daughter. As a former Girl Scout, it makes me very sad to see the direction of the organization.

 

:iagree: But I think you can get a good GS experience anyway.

 

You might want to check out some of the BSA requirements here:

 

http://usscouts.org/advancementTOC.asp

 

and, if you go to a Scout shop (or some outdoor stores) you can look at various manuals and merit badge books. I think that BSA 'curriculum' is well done -- demanding, but also age appropriate.

 

I don't know of a GS site similar to the one above, but you could visit a GS and look through the materials.

 

Compare, say, 4th-5th grade:

 

BSA Webelos level (4-5th grade) -- one Webelos Handbook (leader material mostly online), 20 possible activity pins...

 

GS Juniors -- Journey (choice of several options here, plus leader guides), Handbook (plus leader guide), Badge Book with approx 104 badge choices, many overlapping...

Edited June 20, 2011 by Alessandra

[In The Great White North]

I don't know of a GS site similar to the one above, but you could visit a GS and look through the materials.

Not really. None of the Journeys are online, none of the Studio 2B books were online and only a few of the Interest Projects/Badges (the ones developed after the books went to print) were online.

 

You have to buy the program materials to even check it out (unless you want to spend hours in the GS store reading them:tongue_smilie:)

[tarahillmom]

GSA and BSA are different organizations. I have volunteered with both (more so with BSA). They have very different goals. BSA is much more top down and has almost a military feel to it in the structure. BSA this year has changed to having a list of what to do when and how. It is trying to get each pack to be almost homogenized. GSA is more troop focused and seems to have more freedom to pick what they are doing.

 

I do have to say I have been disappointed with Girl Scouts. They have refocused and changed a lot. I think they are having problems with recruiting. The new Journey books are not doing a lot of teaching, and I think a waste of time. My girls love being with their friends and the outings, so I have kept them in it. We just went to a water park last week and are going to build-a-bear next week and having a camp out. Do they learn a lot? No, but cub scouts at this same age don't either. You need to talk to the leaders and some parents of girls in the troop to get a feel for how active they are and what their goals are.

 

I would recommend also looking at 4-H. It is not just farming and animals. They have lots of different options for your child to get involved in. You do need to be 6 on January 1st to join. As the child gets older they have more things to do. Good luck on your decision.

[LanaTron]

My elder dd is 14, and will be bridging to Senior GS this fall. She has been in GS since she was in K, as Daisy, and her troop is all homeschoolers. She joined not because we were looking for scouts, but because I went to my first homeschool park day when we moved here, and the leader approached me and asked if my dd wanted to join GS. I knew right away that the leader was someone I wanted to have in my dd's life, so we joined, and haven't looked back. Yes, it was all craft-type stuff at the beginning, but that's what my dd liked and what I didn't provide at home. They've also done lots of field trips, too (this past year they saw 3 plays/musicals, and had a backstage tour of one). They've always camped twice a year until the past few years, when they went to NYC, so saved their money for that instead.

 

My dd wants to camp and do more outdoorsy type stuff, but there hasn't been a second leader or volunteer who would do that. I've now volunteerd to be "camping mom," and the leader is open to doing whatever the girls want. So, we'll see if we do more camping or outdoorsy stuff or not. At this point, it is entirely up to the girls.

 

I will say, though, that my sons' Scoutmaster and some of the other adults in our BS troop are starting a Venturing Crew, and my dd is highly interested (4.5 on a scale of 1-5, according to her). But she doesn't want to quit GS, and I don't want her to quit GS--right now we're considering doing both! :willy_nilly:

 

As for the PP and homos*xuality stuff in the link another poster posted--I was wondering if my dd had heard anything about it in the materials or in a meeting, and asked her about this. She said she only ever remembers hearing about PP once, when they were talking about field trips for the year, and the leader threw it out as one possibility. One mom and daughter shot that down, and knowing the other families, there would have been others, and that was the end of it, and it hasn't been mentioned again. My dd didn't even know what the issue with PP was...which means it was a non-issue for her.

[EgoElfWife]

My personal opinion, my daughters will never join Girl Scouts.

 

I do not agree with their view on leaders. I would be way more likely to allow my boys in boys scouts because of their view on leaders.

[zenjenn]

My personal opinion, my daughters will never join Girl Scouts.

 

I do not agree with their view on leaders.

 

What is "their view on leaders"? Just asking because I'm a leader and I have no idea what you're referring to.

 

Regarding Journeys - I agree, I wish they'd drop it! Like everything else Girl Scout, it IS usable into something substantial and fun if highly modified, but their convoluted rickrack just makes a lot more work for a leader who wants to do a quality job.

Edited June 20, 2011 by zenjenn

[justamouse]

I really tried with GS, I did. But we all hated it. HATED IT.

 

Now, if there was an organization for girls like BS, they would join in an instant. But I'm one that doesn't want her girls in Boy Scouts. It's important for them to have that for themselves-as it is for the girls-I just wish the organization were better run with sharper focus. I think in trying to be all inclusive, they weakened their mission.

 

I hated the endless amounts of paperwork I had to do to do *anything*. Our regional leader was a nightmare to deal with. Journeys is ridiculous.

 

Pfffgt. I'm getting miffed just thinking about it. It's NOT The Girl Scouts of my youth, that's for sure.

Edited June 20, 2011 by justamouse

[mom2scouts]

Boy Scouts REALLY ramps up after Cub Scouts. Some of the experiences my sons have had in Boy Scouts were life changing for them. My oldest not only backpacked in the backcountry of Yosemite, but he climbed the back of Half Dome. He canoed past a mother and baby moose in a remote part of Canada. He got certified in lifeguarding, wilderness first aid and CPR. He learned how to shoot rifles and shotguns. He backpacked on Cumberland Island. He learned about rock climbing, sailing, skiing and fishing. He spent a week on a bike trip riding over 30 miles per day and camping at night. He went white water rafting on the New River. He taught younger Scouts about wilderness survival by taking them into the woods and having them build shelters and start fires without matches. With the new high adventure base opening soon, I imagine my younger son will have even more opportunities.

[zenjenn]

The ironic thing is, I think AHG would probably be the more popular scouting organization for girls if they would just drop the "non-Christians not welcome" policy and be more like BSA. I'm really not sure why they don't model their policy more like BSA, which has been successful and inclusive while still having traditional standards.

[pereztribe]

AHG is a Christian based group. However, we wouldn't turn down anyone not a Christian. Like the Boy Scouts, we will accept non-Christians, however we will not change our creed and beliefs to suit a non-believer.

[shinyhappypeople]

I looked into Girl Scouts for my girls and I've been pretty unimpressed. You have to have connections to get into a troop around here. As for starting a troop... meh. Girl Scouts just looks boring. We can do arts and crafts at home, thanks. And I don't want to have to fight the system or tweak their curriculum to death to make GS something worthwhile for my girls. And don't get me started on the cookie sales.

 

I looked into American Heritage Girls and it's closer to what I want, but it's hard to start a troop. I was also disappointed that some of my friends wouldn't be acceptable as volunteers because they weren't mainstream Christians. Loving, committed moms of no faith or so-called minority faiths would not be able to volunteer. They even exclude MORMONS as leaders. But, then again, Mormons have such a bad reputation for partying and funding abortion clinics, I totally understand AHG excluding them... :tongue_smilie: <--- that was sarcasm folks.

 

Seriously, I want a wholesome troop with high moral standards, but my kids get their actual religious instruction from home and church. I also want my girls to have many opportunities to interact with children from many different religious backgrounds, not just evangelical Christians. So AHG, while I'm sure it's a good organization, wasn't a good fit for us.

 

The organization I've settled on is Frontier Girls. It's not perfect, but it's a pretty close match to what I was looking for. The biggest thing is that each local troop is independent, it's very easy to start a troop, it's non-sectarian (similar to boy scouts, girls must believe in God, that's it), there's no national curricula to use (or ignore ;)), all fundraisers are troop-led with ALL proceeds staying with the troop, and it just looks more FUN.

 

Sorry for the novel, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately. :)

[littlebug42]

I just wanted to say that both of my girls are girl scouts and it has been an excellent experience for both of them. We belong to a group of troops (daisy up to cadette) that are primarily homeschooled girls and we have lovely, dedicated leaders. My girls have made wonderful friends and they have learned a lot as well. Cookie selling is not that bad and I would much rather do that than sell overpriced popcorn. They go camping several times a year and the girls love every minute of it.

 

On the other hand, my nephews have been involved with cub/boy scouts and if I had to do that, I would probably poke my eyes out. To each his own, I guess.

[applesing]

I looked into American Heritage Girls and it's closer to what I want, but it's hard to start a troop. I was also disappointed that some of my friends wouldn't be acceptable as volunteers because they weren't mainstream Christians. Loving, committed moms of no faith or so-called minority faiths would not be able to volunteer. They even exclude MORMONS as leaders. But, then again, Mormons have such a bad reputation for partying and funding abortion clinics, I totally understand AHG excluding them... :tongue_smilie: <--- that was sarcasm folks.

 

Seriously, I want a wholesome troop with high moral standards, but my kids get their actual religious instruction from home and church. I also want my girls to have many opportunities to interact with children from many different religious backgrounds, not just evangelical Christians. So AHG, while I'm sure it's a good organization, wasn't a good fit for us.

 

The organization I've settled on is Frontier Girls. It's not perfect, but it's a pretty close match to what I was looking for. The biggest thing is that each local troop is independent, it's very easy to start a troop, it's non-sectarian (similar to boy scouts, girls must believe in God, that's it), there's no national curricula to use (or ignore ;)), all fundraisers are troop-led with ALL proceeds staying with the troop, and it just looks more FUN.

 

Sorry for the novel, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately. :)

 

We have been in a wonderful homeschool GS troop for 3 years. I was the Brownie leader last year, in fact. Our troop has used the badge books mostly, in order to avoid the Journeys, and that has worked well. The badge books are being discontinued, however, and all of the new badges appear to be connected with the Journeys. Also, GS is greatly decreasing the number of badges available at each level. GS has been making these changes in a very secretive way and even pushed us to pre-register for 2011-12 before we had any inkling that the badge books would be discontinued. Most of the GS moms in our area are still unaware of the extent of the curriculum changes that will be rolled out this fall. The GS communication regarding the new curriculum has been poor at best and deceitful at worst.

 

If anyone is interested in checking out the Journeys, this page contains summaries of them: http://www.girlscouts.org/program/journeys/. Click on the headings on the left side of the page to explore the various topics and suggested activities. Better yet, if you have a local GS store, go browse through the actual books. Reading them will give you the flavor of the national organization. The Journeys are all about activism, environmentalism and a rather extreme form of feminism. I am not impressed and do not want to waste our time tweaking these books.

 

My friends and I have been exploring other options and have had much the same thought process as you. Frontier Girls seems to be the best philosophical fit for us, but we are trying to figure out the logistical issues of being an independent troop. We are looking at liability issues and the financial implications of going with a program without a central organization. We have looked at the leader's handbook, though, and are really impressed with the program and its ideals.

 

This has been a very interesting thread, as I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Will be interested to read additional responses.

[JessieC]

The Journeys are all about activism, environmentalism and a rather extreme form of feminism.

.

 

This is actually a selling point for me.