Acquit???? Anyone else following the Casey Anthony trial?

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I turned on the TV to see what was happening, and evidently the judge is deciding on the request by the defense to ACQUIT Casey! Really??? Ok, I'm sure this is just part of the process. And I guess it is based on the amount of circumstantial v. scientific evidence. But...

 

Have you all been following this trial? What are your thoughts?

 

I think it is soooooo horrifically sad. :( Every picture of Caley makes me want to hug her and rescue her... Sooo sad. :crying:

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Ok. He just denied the motion to acquit. That would have really been awful!

[Slartibartfast]

Huh? I guess he HAS to consider it. I have not been watching but that is strange.

[Slartibartfast]

Ok. He just denied the motion to acquit. That would have really been awful!

 

It was likely just parlor tricks on their part. Their case is really bad.

[Mary in VA]

That's a motion that is made by the defense at the end of the prosecution's case in every criminal trail. Basically the defense is arguing the prosecution hasn't presented enough evidence to even rise to the level for a jury to have an issue to decide. It is VERY rare for the motion to be granted. Most of the time the motion sounds really ridiculous, but the defense still makes it.

 

Mary

[lovelaughs_times_three]

That's a motion that is made by the defense at the end of the prosecution's case in every criminal trail. Basically the defense is arguing the prosecution hasn't presented enough evidence to even rise to the level for a jury to have an issue to decide. It is VERY rare for the motion to be granted. Most of the time the motion sounds really ridiculous, but the defense still makes it.

 

Mary

 

I guess I'm just showing how often I acually pay attention to a trial. I figured that was the case. But somehow it still shocked and bothered me. Just the idea of it. You know what I mean??

 

This is the first case I've ever really followed blow. by. blow. I even missed following the O.J. trial.

For some reason, this one has really gotten to me...

[Tree House Academy]

Such a sad case. :(

[Mom in High Heels]

Dh is eternally grateful that we don't have CourtTV because I would watch this case ALL DAY.

I think Jose Baez is a complete idiot and the "theories" they've been throwing out utterly ridiculous. Casey was abused by her brother and her father. Caylee drown. Casey has no sense of right and wrong because of the abuse. Her father found the body, blah, blah, blah.

 

I know it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but I fully believe Casey killed that baby. Whether she did it on purpose or not, I don't know, but I do think she did it.

[Samiam]

The thing is, how sick is she? Let's say Caylee did drown. Let's say Casey's father and she conspired to hide it (why???). But let's just say that is the truth. In the meantime, she moves in with a new boyfriend, goes out partying, participates in bikini contests, etc, etc....just lives life as it is a wonderful, happy, no problems. Really? Who in their right mind would act like that if their daughter just died, or was killed, or lost their life however it happened?

 

She is just truly a sick person. She had an easy out...her mother would have taken Caylee in a heart beat. But she chose death instead. So sad and sick.

[Mom in High Heels]

The thing is, how sick is she? Let's say Caylee did drown. Let's say Casey's father and she conspired to hide it (why???). But let's just say that is the truth. In the meantime, she moves in with a new boyfriend, goes out partying, participates in bikini contests, etc, etc....just lives life as it is a wonderful, happy, no problems. Really? Who in their right mind would act like that if their daughter just died, or was killed, or lost their life however it happened?

 

She is just truly a sick person. She had an easy out...her mother would have taken Caylee in a heart beat. But she chose death instead. So sad and sick.

 

Yes, exactly. She is sick. She's apparently a pathological liar (Zanny, the nanny?) and a thief. She's been convicted of check fraud for stealing her former BFF's checkbook while the friend was away on a cruise (the friend works on the ship) and taking money out of the checking account and writing checks.

Who goes out partying when their child is missing? Who doesn't report it for 31 days???? A guilty person IMO.

[AuntieM]

...her mother would have taken Caylee in a heart beat. But she chose death instead. So sad and sick.

 

We lived a mile or so up the road from them at the time. I would have welcomed that child in my home... most anyone would have. To think that she would rather see the girl dead than to let someone else love her, that is impossible for me to fathom.

 

Who goes out partying when their child is missing? Who doesn't report it for 31 days???? A guilty person IMO.

 

Yea, between this and the duct tape, I think the jury has got to find her guilty. Even if you *really did* think she was abducted by the nanny, what makes that okay to not report???

 

I think this will end Baez's career as an attorney. Just the fact that he's willing to convolute the facts so blatantly... disgusting.

[ereks mom]

An attorney who works as a CNN commentator said earlier today that asking for an aquittal is just a formality that the defense usually performs in cases like these. He said that it's pretty much understood that it's not going to happen, but that you never know unless you try.

[Mom in High Heels]

 

I think this will end Baez's career as an attorney. Just the fact that he's willing to convolute the facts so blatantly... disgusting.

 

There's just...something about him that icks me out. He's so cocky and arrogant. I have to say though, I ADORE the judge. When Baez was trying to get the detective's testimony thrown out because of some comments he made on a chat room that gave absolutely nothing away about the case, I was practically applauding the judge's questions for Baez and his calm demeanor.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I mean, if your going to lie, you can't come up with a better one that Zanny the Nanny? It sounds more like a Dr. Suess book than reality!!!

[Impish]

We lived a mile or so up the road from them at the time. I would have welcomed that child in my home... most anyone would have. To think that she would rather see the girl dead than to let someone else love her, that is impossible for me to fathom.

 

Its unfortunately not an unusual mind set. It happens when someone views another person as a possession, rather than an individual. Happens in domestic violence frequently.

[mom2hancjhe]

I haven't watched the trial but any child death just makes me so sad. We adopted a baby and her birth mother had an older child...the birth mom was 18 at the time and the girls were only 13mos apart. The mother had been on again and off again with the oldest girls dad. She had called me last summer asking for money for a bus ticket b/c he had been abusive to she and the little one. She went back to him and after two weeks of being with him, he killed the little girl. He said she drowned but she had bruises and burns all over her. I went to the funeral and it was the worst thing EVER!! I so wish I could have taken her too and adopted her and saved her. And the birth mom found out she is pregnant again by that guy...she got pregnant a few weeks before the death and didn't know it until after. She wants to keep the baby but I am not sure if CPS will let her. I am hoping we get to adopt him.

 

Some things are so sad. He drove around with her in the trunk of the car and didn't tell the mom until about 8 hours later. Things that make you shake your head in disbelief.

[Joanne]

The thing is, how sick is she? Let's say Caylee did drown. Let's say Casey's father and she conspired to hide it (why???). But let's just say that is the truth. In the meantime, she moves in with a new boyfriend, goes out partying, participates in bikini contests, etc, etc....just lives life as it is a wonderful, happy, no problems. Really? Who in their right mind would act like that if their daughter just died, or was killed, or lost their life however it happened?

 

She is just truly a sick person. She had an easy out...her mother would have taken Caylee in a heart beat. But she chose death instead. So sad and sick.

 

No one in "their right mind". But a sociopath would.

[unsinkable]

No one in "their right mind". But a sociopath would.

 

Can incest be something that might make a person display sociopathic behavior?

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I haven't watched the trial but any child death just makes me so sad. We adopted a baby and her birth mother had an older child...the birth mom was 18 at the time and the girls were only 13mos apart. The mother had been on again and off again with the oldest girls dad. She had called me last summer asking for money for a bus ticket b/c he had been abusive to she and the little one. She went back to him and after two weeks of being with him, he killed the little girl. He said she drowned but she had bruises and burns all over her. I went to the funeral and it was the worst thing EVER!! I so wish I could have taken her too and adopted her and saved her. And the birth mom found out she is pregnant again by that guy...she got pregnant a few weeks before the death and didn't know it until after. She wants to keep the baby but I am not sure if CPS will let her. I am hoping we get to adopt him.

 

Some things are so sad. He drove around with her in the trunk of the car and didn't tell the mom until about 8 hours later. Things that make you shake your head in disbelief.

 

Oh gosh! That's AWFUL! It's hard for me to get my head around that these things really do happen in real life. It's hard for me to comprehend a real human having so little heart or conscience.

[Joanne]

Can incest be something that might make a person display sociopathic behavior?

 

Research has not revealed what makes an Anti-Social/Sociopath. We only know them by behavior and cognition. Current research shows their brain function is literally, physiologically, different.

 

Incest can create (or exacerbate) dissassociative, PTSD, eating disorders, substance abuse disorders, and others.

 

There does seem to be a genetic link of mental illness, so maybe it's possible that incest (pedophelia) is more likely to be found in a family with anti-social.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

latest: Defese is planning to call to the stand an exconvict (kidnapping charges) who claims he spoke with George Anthony a few days before Caylee disapeared. Did I read that right? George is angry and just issued a statement of innocence through his lawyer. Cindy Anthony mouthed I love you to casey today who rolled her eyes and turned away. How awful. :(

 

Her Father Fights Back

Edited June 15, 2011 by JENinOR

[unsinkable]

Research has not revealed what makes an Anti-Social/Sociopath. We only know them by behavior and cognition. Current research shows their brain function is literally, physiologically, different.

 

Incest can create (or exacerbate) dissassociative, PTSD, eating disorders, substance abuse disorders, and others.

 

There does seem to be a genetic link of mental illness, so maybe it's possible that incest (pedophelia) is more likely to be found in a family with anti-social.

 

Thanks! I appreciate it.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

latest: Defese is planning to call to the stand an exconvict (kidnapping charges) who claims he spoke with George Anthony a few days before Caylee disapeared. Did I read that right? George is angry and just issued a statement of innocence through his lawyer. Cindy Anthony mouthed I love you to casey today who rolled her eyes and turned away. How awful. :(

 

Her Father Fights Back

 

Did they say what they claim George Anthony was talking to this guy about? Or just that they have talked?

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Research has not revealed what makes an Anti-Social/Sociopath. We only know them by behavior and cognition. Current research shows their brain function is literally, physiologically, different.

 

Incest can create (or exacerbate) dissassociative, PTSD, eating disorders, substance abuse disorders, and others.

 

There does seem to be a genetic link of mental illness, so maybe it's possible that incest (pedophelia) is more likely to be found in a family with anti-social.

 

I have to admit. I get aggitated about this. It seems like a slippery slope. When we start to talk about their brains being different, it feels almost like its an excuse for their behavior. Like it is something they just can't help, so how in the world can we ever hold them accountable for it? I do believe that their brains are different, but I don't believe that out-ranks their power of choice. And I believe a conscience is not just an intellectual thing, but a spiritual thing. I believe that most people have the sense inside of right and wrong, they just choose to ignore it. Also, if they do NOT have a choice in what they do, they scare me even more. I would not want someone to be acquitted on the basis of "my brain is just different. I can't help it."

I don't mean to sound harsh. I do want these people to find help.

[Mosaicmind]

I have to admit. I get aggitated about this. It seems like a slippery slope. When we start to talk about their brains being different, it feels almost like its an excuse for their behavior. Like it is something they just can't help, so how in the world can we ever hold them accountable for it? I do believe that their brains are different, but I don't believe that out-ranks their power of choice. And I believe a conscience is not just an intellectual thing, but a spiritual thing. I believe that most people have the sense inside of right and wrong, they just choose to ignore it. Also, if they do NOT have a choice in what they do, they scare me even more. I would not want someone to be acquitted on the basis of "my brain is just different. I can't help it."

I don't mean to sound harsh. I do want these people to find help.

 

I don't know if I want to touch this subject. But, I have to step in and tell what is my story. I was horribly abused as a child and in response created other personalities to take the abuse. I have what is known as Dissociative Identity Disorder. I do not know what my other parts do sometimes. Sociopaths do not have a conscience; they do not even know what they are doing is wrong; they don't see it as wrong. There have been things that parts of me have done that I don't know about; things I wish had never happened but I could not help it.

 

I don't believe that she should be acquitted but I do believe she needs to get help. This help may mean that she gets locked up in a mental facility for the rest of her life. I we lived our life scared of things like this all the time we would not be able to live a free life. There are more mentally ill people out there than you realize. Mental illness does not give a person a "right" to do wrong but we have to realize that they cannot help it sometimes. And unfortunately, her abuse probably did create in her a mindset that caused all of this to happen.

 

If you want to know my opinion; her abusers should be locked up as well because in a sense they are part of this horrendous crime. I could have easily been Caley and not one person cared about me. I hate to think of all the people who are feeling survivor's guilty right now for not helping. We need to start getting involved more so things like this won't happen.

 

Stepping down off my soap box.

[unsinkable]

I have to admit. I get aggitated about this. It seems like a slippery slope. When we start to talk about their brains being different, it feels almost like its an excuse for their behavior. Like it is something they just can't help, so how in the world can we ever hold them accountable for it? I do believe that their brains are different, but I don't believe that out-ranks their power of choice. And I believe a conscience is not just an intellectual thing, but a spiritual thing. I believe that most people have the sense inside of right and wrong, they just choose to ignore it. Also, if they do NOT have a choice in what they do, they scare me even more. I would not want someone to be acquitted on the basis of "my brain is just different. I can't help it."

I don't mean to sound harsh. I do want these people to find help.

 

I have no doubt Casey will be convicted. But something about the whoooooooooole sordid situation seems wrong or off to me. This is not an ordinary family. (Not that any of us are.)

 

I am not excusing her behavior if she was molested or if she is a sociopath. I don't think it will have any factor in this trial at all.

[Joanne]

I have to admit. I get aggitated about this. It seems like a slippery slope. When we start to talk about their brains being different, it feels almost like its an excuse for their behavior. Like it is something they just can't help, so how in the world can we ever hold them accountable for it? I do believe that their brains are different, but I don't believe that out-ranks their power of choice. And I believe a conscience is not just an intellectual thing, but a spiritual thing. I believe that most people have the sense inside of right and wrong, they just choose to ignore it. Also, if they do NOT have a choice in what they do, they scare me even more. I would not want someone to be acquitted on the basis of "my brain is just different. I can't help it."

I don't mean to sound harsh. I do want these people to find help.

 

Sociopaths don't have "the same" sense of right and wrong. They have knowledge of what other people - the culture at large - sees as right or wrong. But they don't have that "feeling", "capacity", or depth.

 

The research is important, and I understand your reaction to it. It makes sense, though, of their behavior. Sociopaths are generally born, not made. Their thinking and behavior can usually be traced back to early childhood.

 

I don't want them acquitted, either. Mostly I'd prefer them dead. At least the ones that kill. Not all sociopaths do. Some are right next to you at church, work, Starbucks.

[pdalley]

latest: Defese is planning to call to the stand an exconvict (kidnapping charges) who claims he spoke with George Anthony a few days before Caylee disapeared. Did I read that right? George is angry and just issued a statement of innocence through his lawyer. Cindy Anthony mouthed I love you to casey today who rolled her eyes and turned away. How awful. :(

 

Her Father Fights Back

 

I hope they put her on the stand. I really do. That should prove once and for all she's a deceitful selfish monster.

 

She really pushes my buttons because she acts for the world like my SIL. Nothing is every her fault and she virtually ignored her daughter unless it looked like someone else wanted to take care of her. Nothing gets in the way of what SIL wants and if she has to accuse people of horrible baseless stuff to do it - she has and will.

 

I don't think she was sexually abused. I think she's either a sociopath or just a selfish entitled monster.

 

If these allegations were true the defense would have used them much much sooner than now. It appears this defense team is throwing dung against the wall to see what sticks.

[Mosaicmind]

Sociopaths don't have "the same" sense of right and wrong. They have knowledge of what other people - the culture at large - sees as right or wrong. But they don't have that "feeling", "capacity", or depth.

 

The research is important, and I understand your reaction to it. It makes sense, though, of their behavior. Sociopaths are generally born, not made. Their thinking and behavior can usually be traced back to early childhood.

 

I don't want them acquitted, either. Mostly I'd prefer them dead. At least the ones that kill. Not all sociopaths do. Some are right next to you at church, work, Starbucks.

 

Ummm.....that's a strong statement coming from someone who is going into counseling. What are you going to do when you have to counsel someone who is a sociopath?

[SweetMissMagnolia]

Ok. He just denied the motion to acquit. That would have really been awful!

 

:iagree:

[unsinkable]

I hope they put her on the stand. I really do. That should prove once and for all she's a deceitful selfish monster.

 

She really pushes my buttons because she acts for the world like my SIL. Nothing is every her fault and she virtually ignored her daughter unless it looked like someone else wanted to take care of her. Nothing gets in the way of what SIL wants and if she has to accuse people of horrible baseless stuff to do it - she has and will.

 

I don't think she was sexually abused. I think she's either a sociopath or just a selfish entitled monster.

 

If these allegations were true the defense would have used them much much sooner than now. It appears this defense team is throwing dung against the wall to see what sticks.

 

I actually heard the abuse allegation years ago. I truly don't know what to believe.

[Joanne]

[/b]

 

Ummm.....that's a strong statement coming from someone who is going into counseling. What are you going to do when you have to counsel someone who is a sociopath?

 

LMAO. Do you think all mental health workers should be kind, loving, patient, and sweet to all offenders?

 

*shrug* I probably have sociopaths in my current setting.

 

The mental health field (and human need) casts a wide enough net that I can chose to avoid settings or clients I know to be pedophiles, sociopaths, or violent.

[Jennifer3141]

I'll preface this by saying that I think Casey is guilty based upon the small amount of internet reading I've seen so far.

 

But I can't help but wonder if this is one of those families that looks GREAT on the outside but inside is a total mess. Claiming that the grandparents would have taken the baby... do we KNOW that or do they just tell everyone that?

 

I had a friend in high school whose mom looked totally normal and supportive until one day, I was in the kitchen pantry getting something (mom didn't know I was there) and I was STUNNED by what she was saying to my friend, who wasn't doing anything. We were just hanging out, working on our homework but the Mom walked in and asked her fat%$#! daughter how her day as a <insert worst racial epithet ever here> in school went and asked her if she was the stupidest person in the school or just the ugliest. The mom just walked in the door and popped off like that. My friend stammered and I came out of the pantry and went home and then days later, my mom found out that that mom was running around town telling everyone I was promiscuous. I was 12. I didn't kiss my first boyfriend until I was 17. I was a late bloomer!!!

 

Years later my friend and I reconnected on FB. It turns out that her "father" wasn't her father. It turned out that the mom KILLED a child before my friend was born but got a light sentence because everyone wanted to believe the mother was just depressed or something and the mom eventually committed suicide by shooting at her neighbor who was an off-duty police officer, just sitting on his deck cooking hot dogs for his kids who were playing back there too.

 

She was a PRIZE, let me tell you!!!

 

I just wonder about this family. I'm reasonably sure that no matter how sociopathic/narcissistic/whatever Casey is, she didn't get this idea to kill her child all of a sudden and act on it 5 minutes later. She didn't go from being Parent of the Year to this monster in a day. Where the heck was her family BEFORE this??? She probably wasn't a winner of a parent long before the death. If Casey truly partied for 30 days before telling anyone, was she partying BEFORE that? So why didn't the parents intervene before this?

 

If I ever end up with a pregnant teen, I will be all up in his/her business to make sure my grandchild is ok. Where were they??

[TravelingChris]

Hey Joanne, I am right there with you on the sociopath research and also not treating them. There has been no effective treatment for sociopathy at least at the time I was pursuing a criminal justice doctorate focusing on criminology.

 

Joanne is right= while there often is some other people in the family who are mentally ill, the sociopath is not really mentally ill and so there is nothing to treat. IT is the most extreme form of personality disorder and while sometimes there are some treatments for side effects of these disorders, I have seen very little evidence of any effective treatments for most of these disorders. That is very different from the mental illnesses which most have at least some treatments that are effective for a portion of the ill population. No, none have treatments that work on all but in major depression, about 80% can have some type of success with treatment and about 65% have total success. That still leaves about 20% who aren't able to be treated now (or maybe the right treatment hasn't been tried yet) but that is a long, long way from anti-social personality where there is no treatment at all.

[Samiam]

From my reading, they were ALL up in her business. For goodness sake, it was Casey's mother who reported the child missing, after spending many days trying to get in touch with Casey, trying to check on the child.

 

I think that there is only so much one can do for a grandchild if the adult child is not willing to let the grandparents take the responsibility. Yes, I agree, intervene if the adult child is not doing their parental duty. But Casey lived with her parents, for the most part. So they were helping with Caylee. But Casey is the actual parent, and therefore has the legal right to take the child anywhere she wants to.

 

Now, I do truly believe that Casey's parents are enablers. Casey didn't work, but lied and told her parents she did. But where did she get money from? Probably the parents. I think that they enabled her to become this poor excuse for an adult by taking care of her way too much. But that does not mean they are responsible for her choosing to murder a child, if that is what she is guilty of. Let's say worse case scenario, Casey was molested by her father. That STILL is not an excuse for her actions. I think that there are many people here who had experiences with molestation as children, unfortunately, from reading various posts. Sadly, there are many, many people in the world who were sexually abused. I know that it causes long term scarring. But few choose to murder and then use that as an excuse.

 

I don't think, even if her father is a pedophile, and her parents are the epitome of enabling, that either have to do with her actions as an adult, her choice to "get rid" of a child, or should have anything to do with this case.

[mcconnellboys]

It is standard to request acquittal at this point in the trial. There was no way it was going to be considered....

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Total enablers and more...they could have pressed charges several times for stealing and such before Caylee disapeared...got her counseling...not intimidate her into keeping Caylee instead of giving her up for adoption...they lied to the media and jury trying to cover up for Casey!

 

I'm enjoying this blog focusing on body language about this family and their percieved relationships.

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/gum-chewing-george-and-note-taking-cindy-anthony-in-the-courtroom/

Edited June 16, 2011 by JENinOR

[Mosaicmind]

LMAO. Do you think all mental health workers should be kind, loving, patient, and sweet to all offenders?

 

*shrug* I probably have sociopaths in my current setting.

 

The mental health field (and human need) casts a wide enough net that I can chose to avoid settings or clients I know to be pedophiles, sociopaths, or violent.

 

 

Never said that, but so glad I didn't have someone that has that kind of mindset that, "Oh they have so and so disorder so they are not able to be helped". If that had been the case then I wouldn't have had any help at all either.

 

I know the secular counseling world has such a different view of persons and so glad I am not going there when I get done. No one and I repeat NO ONE is without hope.

[Joanne]

Never said that, but so glad I didn't have someone that has that kind of mindset that, "Oh they have so and so disorder so they are not able to be helped". If that had been the case then I wouldn't have had any help at all either.

 

I know the secular counseling world has such a different view of persons and so glad I am not going there when I get done. No one and I repeat NO ONE is without hope.

 

If you'd like to continue to question my professionalism and integrity, perhaps private messages would be best?

 

The above quote assumes a whole lot.

 

You don't know if I am coming from a so-called "secular" view, a Buddist, Pagan, Wiccan, California woo-woo, or Christian one.

 

You can hold out hope for sociopaths and pedophiles. I'll continue to treat people who respond to treatment. And the people who are victims of sociopaths and pedophiles.

[Jennifer3141]

Jen, that blog is fascinating!!

 

That's another point I wanted to make too... I'm sorry but what NURSE doesn't know what a dead body smells like???!? Wow.

I have visited DH in the hospital a handful of times and I'd know that smell ANYWHERE, just from being in one room with a dead body that had left hours previously.

 

I still think this entire family is nuts. Lock them all up, as far as I'm concerned!!!

[Aelwydd]

Can incest be something that might make a person display sociopathic behavior?

 

If it damaged them enough.

[Aelwydd]

Sociopaths don't have "the same" sense of right and wrong. They have knowledge of what other people - the culture at large - sees as right or wrong. But they don't have that "feeling", "capacity", or depth.

 

The research is important, and I understand your reaction to it. It makes sense, though, of their behavior. Sociopaths are generally born, not made. Their thinking and behavior can usually be traced back to early childhood.

 

I don't want them acquitted, either. Mostly I'd prefer them dead. At least the ones that kill. Not all sociopaths do. Some are right next to you at church, work, Starbucks.

 

What also needs to be understood is that just because someone is mentally ill, does not mean that the law excuses them from committing crimes. In order for the defense to use the insanity clause, for example, they have to be able to prove that the defendant was insane in the moment of the crime. That can be really difficult to do, since many mentally ill people, or even insane people, can be cognizant sometimes, and oblivious of their behavior at other times. So, in the case of Anthony, for example, the defense would have to prove, that even if she was dx'd a sociopath, that she was actually insane at the moment she carried out the murder.

 

I don't think it's an accident that the defense went with the "drowning" story over the insanity clause. It's pretty clear to me, at least, that Anthony is quite "sane" and aware of right and wrong. She just doesn't care. That's sociopathic behavior, but it doesn't meet the requirements for "insanity."

[Mom in High Heels]

 

If you want to know my opinion; her abusers should be locked up as well because in a sense they are part of this horrendous crime.

 

 

 

I agree, however, until she was arrested for this crime, she never made an allegations against her father or brother. There is no proof of it (as of yet). They're trying to use it as a defense for the killing of this child.

 

I hope they put her on the stand. I really do. That should prove once and for all she's a deceitful selfish monster.

 

...SNIP...

 

I don't think she was sexually abused. I think she's either a sociopath or just a selfish entitled monster.

 

If these allegations were true the defense would have used them much much sooner than now. It appears this defense team is throwing dung against the wall to see what sticks.

 

:iagree:

 

I'll preface this by saying that I think Casey is guilty based upon the small amount of internet reading I've seen so far.

 

But I can't help but wonder if this is one of those families that looks GREAT on the outside but inside is a total mess. Claiming that the grandparents would have taken the baby... do we KNOW that or do they just tell everyone that?

 

...SNIP...

 

I just wonder about this family. I'm reasonably sure that no matter how sociopathic/narcissistic/whatever Casey is, she didn't get this idea to kill her child all of a sudden and act on it 5 minutes later. She didn't go from being Parent of the Year to this monster in a day. Where the heck was her family BEFORE this??? She probably wasn't a winner of a parent long before the death. If Casey truly partied for 30 days before telling anyone, was she partying BEFORE that? So why didn't the parents intervene before this?

 

If I ever end up with a pregnant teen, I will be all up in his/her business to make sure my grandchild is ok. Where were they??

 

They could be a family that looks good on the outside, but that does not excuse the murder of a child.

I also don't remember anyone calling her parent of the year. No one has said they ever saw her being a bad parent, but that does not automatically equate to her being a good parent. I'msure the defense is going to trot out a bunch of happy photos of them together to try to show she was a good parent, but how many people who have killed their child have photos of the times they were not happy and smiling? One of her former friends (the one Casey stole from) even testified to the fact that Casey would get upset if she wanted to go out and the grandmother couldn't watch Caylee for her, and had text messages where Casey stated that she would be going out because her mom "owed her" meaning she (the grandmother) would have to take Caylee that night.

As far asI've heard, the grandparents were up in her business about where Caylee was and why they hadn't seen or talked to her, in so long, but Casey wasn't living with them at the time of her disappearance and kept giving them excuses. Of course we can all say we'd be all up in her business if she were our child, but we don't don't know for sure unless we were in that exact situation. Casey was 19 when she got pregnant and in her early 20's at the time of Caylee's death. It wasn't like she was 14 or 15. She was a legal adult and had legal responsibility for Caylee. The grandparents had no legal rights to do anything. Also remember that the grandmother is the one who called the police after she had not seen or talked to Caylee in over a month. The grandparents might well have taken Caylee has Casey offered her to them, but she hadn't (according to testimony) and the grandmother stated that she had told Casey (since Casey was the parent and hadn't asked them to take Caylee on a permanent basis) that Caylee was her responsibility and she needed to take care of her. She (the grandmother) told Casey that she couldn't just drop Caylee off whenever she wanted and then pick her up when it was convenient. This was just before Caylee went missing. Did this contribute to Caylee's disappearance? Probably, but I can't blame the grandparents. Caylee was not their child. My parents adore my children and would take them at the drop of a hat if I couldn't (or didn't want to) care for them any long, but they have their own lives and I could never expect them to change plans or take the kids just so I could go out any time I felt like it and then take them back when I was done.

 

 

 

What also needs to be understood is that just because someone is mentally ill, does not mean that the law excuses them from committing crimes. In order for the defense to use the insanity clause, for example, they have to be able to prove that the defendant was insane in the moment of the crime. That can be really difficult to do, since many mentally ill people, or even insane people, can be cognizant sometimes, and oblivious of their behavior at other times. So, in the case of Anthony, for example, the defense would have to prove, that even if she was dx'd a sociopath, that she was actually insane at the moment she carried out the murder.

 

I don't think it's an accident that the defense went with the "drowning" story over the insanity clause. It's pretty clear to me, at least, that Anthony is quite "sane" and aware of right and wrong. She just doesn't care. That's sociopathic behavior, but it doesn't meet the requirements for "insanity."

 

There is absolutely no evidence (as of yet) to support that she was mentally ill at the time of the murder or before. I agree that she seems perfectly aware of what's right and wrong, but doesn't care. If you look at the taped conversations while she's in prison she keeps going on and on about how bad it is for "her." She only discusses finding Caylee as it pertains to her getting out, not simply for the sake of finding Caylee (at least IMO). She's incredibly selfish. Her parents may be enablers to her bad behavior, but that doesn't make them guilty of anything with regards to Caylee's death. The whole "accidental drowning" defense is ridiculous IMO. There is even a jailhouse tape of her dismissing the drowning theory long before she went to trial.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Mom in High Heels

[Mosaicmind]

I agree, however, until she was arrested for this crime, she never made an allegations against her father or brother. There is no proof of it (as of yet). They're trying to use it as a defense for the killing of this child

 

That's not true. There had been allegations years before.

[Lady Florida.]

 

You can hold out hope for sociopaths and pedophiles. I'll continue to treat people who respond to treatment. And the people who are victims of sociopaths and pedophiles.

 

Thank you Joanne. :grouphug: I was friends with one of Ted Bundy's victims. While her family will likely never "get over" what happened, they did get counseling. Thanks to a caring counselor they are able to cope even all these years later. The field needs people like you!

[Mom in High Heels]

That's not true. There had been allegations years before.

 

Can you quote a source? I'm genuinely curious, not being snarky. I ask because on CNN, they've made a point several times that there have never been any allegations before.

[Audrey]

If

 

You can hold out hope for sociopaths and pedophiles. I'll continue to treat people who respond to treatment. And the people who are victims of sociopaths and pedophiles.

 

 

I wouldn't hold out a hope in h3ll for convicted sociopaths and pedophiles and I'm grateful that there are people who take a stand and refuse to waste precious resources on "treating" them as if they could ever be allowed to breathe free air again.

 

Some things are wholly unforgiveable. Some people are not rehabilitatable.

 

YOU, Joanne, are exactly the person I would want to help me pick up the pieces if one of those inhuman slime ever perpetrated anything on me or my family.

[JessieC]

Hey Joanne, I am right there with you on the sociopath research and also not treating them. There has been no effective treatment for sociopathy at least at the time I was pursuing a criminal justice doctorate focusing on criminology.

 

Joanne is right= while there often is some other people in the family who are mentally ill, the sociopath is not really mentally ill and so there is nothing to treat. IT is the most extreme form of personality disorder and while sometimes there are some treatments for side effects of these disorders, I have seen very little evidence of any effective treatments for most of these disorders. That is very different from the mental illnesses which most have at least some treatments that are effective for a portion of the ill population. No, none have treatments that work on all but in major depression, about 80% can have some type of success with treatment and about 65% have total success. That still leaves about 20% who aren't able to be treated now (or maybe the right treatment hasn't been tried yet) but that is a long, long way from anti-social personality where there is no treatment at all.

 

:iagree:

 

I've been reading about sociopaths, and it is apparently the one disorder that just does not respond to treatment. If anything, counseling makes the sociopath more dangerous, because they get to practice their lying skills on the therapist.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Thte thing that really bothered me is that Cindy bullied Casey into keeping Caylee. She was aware of what a liar and mess her daughter was. It was selfish of her to want a grandbaby so much. There is such a thing as an open adoption. It reminds me of Andrea Yates. IIRC, she was doing better until her dh talked her into another baby. After the birth and pp depression she went downhill. :glare:

[pdalley]

I wouldn't hold out a hope in h3ll for convicted sociopaths and pedophiles and I'm grateful that there are people who take a stand and refuse to waste precious resources on "treating" them as if they could ever be allowed to breathe free air again.

 

Some things are wholly unforgiveable. Some people are not rehabilitatable.

 

YOU, Joanne, are exactly the person I would want to help me pick up the pieces if one of those inhuman slime ever perpetrated anything on me or my family.

:iagree:

 

They are like rabid dogs.

 

There is no cure for rabies.