Girls and Maths

[engu]

I'm stumped trying to teach maths to dd (turning 5 yo this July). We've tried Miquon and a few other books, but she doesn't seem to readily take to the subject as she does to reading. Yesterday, we were touring a school that we wanted to put her in for next year and I mentioned this problem with maths to the school principle. I was surprised to hear him say that boys generally perform better in maths and science, but not reading. He said it's in our genetics, girls and boys are just "hard-wired" that way.

 

I've ordered a few books from Amazon to help me understand this. But can you tell me what you know, and what you've done to help your dd learn to love maths:confused:

[justamouse]

*said very gently*

 

She's four, turning five. (Unless you were meaning to post on the accelerated board? ) the most she should be doing is counting the spoons needed at the dinner table and adding M& Ms.

 

Maturity, more than anything, enables a child to do math.

 

And tell that principle to shove it. :glare: The fact that he's starting out with some sexist excuse as to why a FOUR year old is having trouble with math?

 

Where's my bat?

[Ester Maria]

Maybe it's not that she's a girl, but that's she not even 5 years old? Relax. :) If it continues when she's 6-7, then start worrying - but you will cross that bridge when you get there.

[regentrude]

At thins age, it has nothing to do with being a girl - she is FOUR years old, will be 5.

In many countries they don't even start any formal schooling until age 6.

Relax.

[Perry]

I was surprised to hear him say that boys generally perform better in maths and science, but not reading. He said it's in our genetics, girls and boys are just "hard-wired" that way.

 

:banghead: I'd cross that school off my list if he said that to me.

The Myth of the Math Gender Gap

[Denise in Florida]

Run away, fast and hard.

 

Students pick up very quickly when adults say those kinds of things. In the principal says it the teachers might have that mind set also.

 

Yes, there are legitimate learning differences between boys and girls. Math is NOT one of them. This really, really does lead to the tyranny of low expectations.

 

Math is very brain development specific it is also a readiness issue. I highly recommend Ruth Beechicks 3 Rs Series (very cheap, very fast to read). She has an excellent two page explanation of the stages of concrete, representational, and abstract understanding of math.

 

Don't let your daughter get pegged as 'not mathy' at this young an age.

[Carrie12345]

My 4yo BOY isn't ready to "do" math. He counts things sometimes, and recognizes most numbers.

 

As far as girls go, I've had one pick it up easily, and one who still struggles. Neither started to "do" math until they were past their 6th birthday.

[kiana]

Honestly, the principal saying that would make me quite worried about the atmosphere of the school.

 

She's only 4, jeeze. There's lots of room for her brain to grow

[LittleIzumi]

Run away, fast and hard.

 

Students pick up very quickly when adults say those kinds of things. In the principal says it the teachers might have that mind set also.

 

Yes, there are legitimate learning differences between boys and girls. Math is NOT one of them. This really, really does lead to the tyranny of low expectations.

 

Math is very brain development specific it is also a readiness issue. I highly recommend Ruth Beechicks 3 Rs Series (very cheap, very fast to read). She has an excellent two page explanation of the stages of concrete, representational, and abstract understanding of math.

 

Don't let your daughter get pegged as 'not mathy' at this young an age.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Chris in VA]

To put it in perspective, where were you about 5 years ago?

Where was she?

:001_smile:

[justasque]

I mentioned this problem with maths to the school principle. I was surprised to hear him say that boys generally perform better in maths and science, but not reading. He said it's in our genetics, girls and boys are just "hard-wired" that way.

 

I've ordered a few books from Amazon to help me understand this. But can you tell me what you know, and what you've done to help your dd learn to love maths:confused:

 

Run. I would not send my daughter to a school where the leadership believed this.

 

I have a degree in engineering. I have done a LOT of math!

 

I have taught math to quite a few homeschooled girls and boys. There has been no gender gap. I've had talented students of both genders, hard working students of both genders, and struggling students of both genders.

 

As to the math - play some games that involve dice or cards, do some cooking that involves "half" of something, play with magnetic shapes, pour water into different sized containers, play "store" with play money, figure out how many sandwiches or forks you need, build with lego, get some paper dolls and figure out how many outfits you can make with three tops and two bottoms, make paper snowflakes, read books that involve math (there are some quite good ones for younger kids).

 

I know this doesn't sound like serious work, but I have found that kids who have this intentional, play-based preparation as younger kids are in a much better position to learn more formal math as they get older.

 

Here's my long list of

Forty Four Ideas for Mixing Food and Math (and Science)

[mom31257]

Mom with a math degree here, so I can say that there are girls who are "wired" that way. I do believe that some of us are stronger in math than others. I see it in my own children, and it's even the boy that is better in it. I just think I would not respect a school principal who voiced that opinion to me, especially about one as young as yours. If someone is 14 and still not getting math, I think you could say they might not be wired that way, but 4?

[engu]

Thanks for all your replies. As a dad, I was under the impression that the principle knew what he was talking about. This impression was verified when I went online and saw some books on Amazon.com that seems to suggest that girls learn maths differently to boys.

 

I like some of your suggestions about math games and activities. I saw a few games like ThinkFun Zingo, Candyland etc at Amazon.com which sounds fun, and which might encourage math learning. Do you have any suggestions for games and activities?

 

Also, do girls like playing with lego and building blocks?

[In The Great White North]

Also, do girls like playing with lego and building blocks?

 

Some do, some don't. My dds played with Legos, wooden blocks, Brio tracks, etc and their dolls. I had tons of Legos.

 

Liking Legos is not related to whether or not they can do math. :001_smile:

[KidsHappen]

:banghead: I'd cross that school off my list if he said that to me.

The Myth of the Math Gender Gap

 

Thank you. So glad to see some up to date research on this. and :iagree: I would be crossing that school off my list as well.

[nono]

Guess this principal hasn't been to sensitivity training yet... :lol:

 

 

Even if there was a gender skew, to write off an entire gender like that? What if your daughter is in (for argument's sake) the 10% that's brilliant in math? The power of suggestion could diffuse her interest entirely and she'd never fulfill her potential. :(

[justasque]

I don't know that Candyland would be all that useful math-wise. Things like The Squirrel Game, where you do a lot of counting of little pinecones, or Hi Ho Cherry Oh, where you count cherries, or Go Fish where you call out the names of numbers, or any game where you move around a board by counting spaces (Candyland uses colors, so there's no counting, IIRC) might be a better choice, depending on where your child is, math development-wise. Anything using dice is often good at this age. Ravensburger makes some lovely games for this age group. Traditional strategy games like checkers or Nine Mens Morris are also good.

 

You can easily make a "race" game - just draw a board with spaces, make a "start" space and a "finish" space, take turns rolling a die, and use coins or little toys as markers. The fun part would be to make a theme for the game, ideally something that interests your particular child. It could be cars racing to the finish line, or animals going to an animal party, or princesses going to the castle. Along the way, put a little star on some of the spaces, and make cards that you draw when you land on a star space. The cards could say "flat tire, miss a turn", or "you find some acorns to take to the party, move ahead two spaces", or "lose your party shoes, go back three spaces".

 

The game needn't look super-professional, in fact it's better if it doesn't, because the kid can get the idea "hey, I could do that", and soon you'll have "The Even Better Princess Game". It'll probably have rules that don't make sense, but play along anyway, and the child will see the problems and you can work together to improve it.

 

You can also check your library for books on math games for children, family games, historical games, and so on. There are lots of good ideas out there.

[Parrothead]

Thanks for all your replies. As a dad, I was under the impression that the principle knew what he was talking about. This impression was verified when I went online and saw some books on Amazon.com that seems to suggest that girls learn maths differently to boys.

 

I like some of your suggestions about math games and activities. I saw a few games like ThinkFun Zingo, Candyland etc at Amazon.com which sounds fun, and which might encourage math learning. Do you have any suggestions for games and activities?

 

Also, do girls like playing with lego and building blocks?

Mine does. These are about the only "boy" toys that she ever played with. She is a bit of a girly girl.

 

When my dd was that age she didn't do math well. It did not click with her. I went through several math curricula trying to find one that fit her. I eventually settled (when she started 2nd grade) on Math U See. Somehow the way Steve Demme explains math (she watches the video) it clicks for her. This year she will be just shy of 12 starting 7th grade doing pre-algebra.

 

All this to say, it will come. Give it time and find something (even if you aren't homeschooling) that will work with her strengths.

[Ellie]

I'm stumped trying to teach maths to dd (turning 5 yo this July). We've tried Miquon and a few other books, but she doesn't seem to readily take to the subject as she does to reading. Yesterday, we were touring a school that we wanted to put her in for next year and I mentioned this problem with maths to the school principle. I was surprised to hear him say that boys generally perform better in maths and science, but not reading. He said it's in our genetics, girls and boys are just "hard-wired" that way.

 

I've ordered a few books from Amazon to help me understand this. But can you tell me what you know, and what you've done to help your dd learn to love maths:confused:

Seriously? He actually said that out loud? In front of another person?!??

 

:banghead: :boxing_smiley:

 

Under no circumstances would I ever enroll my dc in that school, boy or girl.

 

Furthermore, your dd is young, too young, IMHO, to have already "tried" Miquon and decided that because it doesn't work for her she's doomed to future failure in math, definitely too young to be looking for books on Amazon to help you understand anything about your dd and learning math.

 

How I "helped" my dds "love maths" is that I taught them to do math. I never equated any of their challenges to liking or not liking math or to their gender. Math is what it is. Not all children love it, nor should they. They just need to learn to do it.

 

My grandparents and teachers held me back in developing math skills because I was a girl. I remember so clearly asking my grandmother to help me with a page of mixed fractions when I was 10, and she said, "Oh, you'll have to have your grandfather help you when he gets home. I'm not any good at math either." I went to live with my mother and step-father the following year; my math teacher was a man, who didn't believe that girls were less capable of math just because they were girls, and my math skills improved greatly. In seventh grade my male math teacher never knew that I'd had any problems with math, and I earned A's and B's all year. I still don't love algebra, but OTOH, I have a significant number of women friends (including Jann in TX) who are definitely much more math than English types.

 

Do not, when your dd is so young, even allow the tiniest thought into your brain that your dd has any sort of problem with math, especially not that it is so because she's a girl. Just don't.

[Denise in Florida]

Thanks for all your replies. As a dad, I was under the impression that the principle knew what he was talking about. This impression was verified when I went online and saw some books on Amazon.com that seems to suggest that girls learn maths differently to boys.

 

I like some of your suggestions about math games and activities. I saw a few games like ThinkFun Zingo, Candyland etc at Amazon.com which sounds fun, and which might encourage math learning. Do you have any suggestions for games and activities?

 

Also, do girls like playing with lego and building blocks?

 

My girls loved lego and other building type toys. And yes, blocks and building help with math skills.

 

There are a lot of simple games on the market that would help. Chutes and Ladders, Sorry, Dominos, etc. Whatever she likes to play with. One of my girls loved playing with the domino blocks (not the game, just building things) later she explained that she 'saw' numbers as 'dot patterns' and this helped with the grouping concepts. (3 plus 7 = 10).

 

At this age she just needs lots of fun experiences. DO NOT get concerned with 'counting to ten' or knowing numerals. She needs to grasp the number concept, e.g. three people at the table means 3 plates and 3 forks.

[Ellie]

Thanks for all your replies. As a dad, I was under the impression that the principle knew what he was talking about. This impression was verified when I went online and saw some books on Amazon.com that seems to suggest that girls learn maths differently to boys.

Although that may be true, I think it's a big jump from a 4yo not taking to Miquon to her not doing well at math in the future just because she's a girl. Also, this is an object lesson in not thinking that someone knows so much more than you just because he has a title.

 

Also, do girls like playing with lego and building blocks?

You bet. They were my favorite when I was a child. :D

[angela in ohio]

The principal is incorrect. In elementary school, studies have shown that girls get higher grades than boys in both math and reading. By middle and high school, though, girls begin to lose interest in math and take fewer advanced math courses. Many people (myself included) believe that this is more about a cultural expectation than a biological one.

 

I agree with pp that I would have serious second thoughts about that school. His opinion is incredibly outdated.

 

And, as others have said, she is only 4 years old. Play some pre-math games with her and enjoy this time with her, instead of trying to hurry her along. My 13 yo dd is in Algebra II, but she didn't get there by me cramming math in her at 4 yo. :D

[Matryoshka]

definitely too young to be looking for books on Amazon to help you understand anything about your dd and learning math.

 

 

Well, I'm not sure about this bit - I did much of my best reading about how to teach when my kids were still to young to have to be taught much formally yet (that's when I had the time to do this reading).

 

I just think you're looking at the wrong books. One of the most recommended books about math pedagogy here is by Liping Ma (a woman!) and titled Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics. Try that one. :D

 

You should chat with our resident math dad, Bill. He does have a boy, which is maybe why he hasn't checked in on this thread. He also loves Miquon, but y'know, I never warmed to Miquon (Bill would say it's because I didn't ever manage to read and process the First Grade Diary, which he will assure you is essential to understanding the teaching of Miquon :tongue_smilie:), but there are lots of other great early math programs - Right Start games might be a fun way to "play" math with her.

 

And yeah, she's 4. :)

[Perry]

One of the most recommended books about math pedagogy here is by Liping Ma (a woman!) and titled Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics. Try that one.

:iagree:

 

Great book!

[LittleIzumi]

Girls often learn DIFFERENTLY from boys. They are NOT WORSE at any subject than boys. There is a huge cultural history of girls being encouraged to excel at language arts/arts and boys at math/science and so many girls grow up thinking math isn't even an option! Every child learns differently, even within the same gender. My dd who is 5 does not really care for Legos. My dd who is 3 brought Legos to bed with her last night so she could continue building. Dd5 does quite well at math (with Singapore) and she is very gifted in science, no question. And if any of her teachers try to sway her otherwise I'm pulling her out of that class at her charter school.

When dd was little we would incorporate math everywhere--explaining the math being done in everyday life. If I have five cookies and I give your sister a cookie, how many are left? If I give you one, how many are left? For this recipe I need a cup of sugar, but I only have half a cup! I need two halves to make one whole cup! Now we use Singapore Primary Math plus some math games and she loves it. Neither of my kids worked well with Cuisinaire rods or with Math-U-See. Manipulatives didn't work here.

[JennyD]

Seriously? He actually said that out loud? In front of another person?!??

 

:banghead: :boxing_smiley:

 

Under no circumstances would I ever enroll my dc in that school, boy or girl.

 

Furthermore, your dd is young, too young, IMHO, to have already "tried" Miquon and decided that because it doesn't work for her she's doomed to future failure in math, definitely too young to be looking for books on Amazon to help you understand anything about your dd and learning math.

 

How I "helped" my dds "love maths" is that I taught them to do math. I never equated any of their challenges to liking or not liking math or to their gender. Math is what it is. Not all children love it, nor should they. They just need to learn to do it.

 

My grandparents and teachers held me back in developing math skills because I was a girl. I remember so clearly asking my grandmother to help me with a page of mixed fractions when I was 10, and she said, "Oh, you'll have to have your grandfather help you when he gets home. I'm not any good at math either." I went to live with my mother and step-father the following year; my math teacher was a man, who didn't believe that girls were less capable of math just because they were girls, and my math skills improved greatly. In seventh grade my male math teacher never knew that I'd had any problems with math, and I earned A's and B's all year. I still don't love algebra, but OTOH, I have a significant number of women friends (including Jann in TX) who are definitely much more math than English types.

 

Do not, when your dd is so young, even allow the tiniest thought into your brain that your dd has any sort of problem with math, especially not that it is so because she's a girl. Just don't.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Definitely get the Liping Ma book. And the website livingmath.net has all kinds of fantastic suggestions, especially for the early years.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Without reading others: also agree that due to the fact that she's not even 5, I'd let it pass right out of your awareness. She's not suppose to be doing great at math. She should be counting and becoming aware. She's so terribly young to measure by an "abilities" ruler. Relax. Have fun. You will wish later you had more time for that. :)

[twoxcell]

My oldest dd loves math, in fact it is her favorite school subject. She is much more intuitive about math than my ds, who does pretty well with math. She also loves building toys, puzzles, patterns, etc.