s/o Autism Vaccine Link

[Embassy]

What says the hive? I have read a few articles lately that talk about a possibility of a link between vaccines and autism and it has nothing to do with thimerosal.

 

An article titled "Groups Call for Federal Investigation of Human Fetal DNA/Autism Link in Vaccines" can be found here

 

ETA: I was wondering what others here thought of the information in the linked article. Is it plausible?

Edited June 10, 2011 by Wehomeschool

[Tohru]

I don't know if there is a link, but it seems logical that anytime one is attacking the developing brain of a child with meds or vaccines, the chances of something going wrong during development increase.

 

ETA:

I vaguely remember a news story from many years ago Dr's were treating dwarfism with some human growth cells and the dwarves grew, however developed serious mental conditions that was fatal by their 20's.

Edited June 10, 2011 by jadedone80

[Spy Car]

There is NO LINK between autism and vaccines.

 

I can't believe that there are people who still believe this nonsense. It is a "link" that has been throughly disproven. This is really dangerous disinformation.

 

Bill

[staceyobu]

There is NO LINK between autism and vaccines.

 

I can't believe that there are people who still believe this nonsense. It is a "link" that has been throughly disproven. This is really dangerous disinformation.

 

Bill

 

Can you really trust this when the government, vaccine makers, and researchers are all in bed together and making tons of money off of vaccinating every child in the country? Like, I get the research... but can you really believe the research? I was just reading about how deadly lead was for so long and how long it took to get it pulled out of food containers. There were definite steps taken to hide the danger.

 

I work hard not to be a conspiracy theorist. But then, I sit up late at night with a computer in a dark room and start to think the government really is out to get us....

[5LittleMonkeys]

Wasn't there an extensive study done in Sweden or Denmark totally disproving a link between vacinnes and Autism? I watched a documentary about it not to long ago and have also read several studies from various sources reporting the same conclusions. Hmmm...hopefully someone will know what I'm talking about (the documentary) and might be able to link to information about it. I'm too tired and going to bed soon. I know I'll end up missing a heated debate though. ;)

[staceyobu]

I know I'll end up missing a heated debate though. ;)

 

Meh. Maybe not. I think I'm too tired to stay awake to watch one, much less participate in one.

[asta]

Can you really trust this when the government, vaccine makers, and researchers are all in bed together and making tons of money off of vaccinating every child in the country? Like, I get the research... but can you really believe the research? I was just reading about how deadly lead was for so long and how long it took to get it pulled out of food containers. There were definite steps taken to hide the danger.

 

I work hard not to be a conspiracy theorist. But then, I sit up late at night with a computer in a dark room and start to think the government really is out to get us....

 

If you've been around the govt for any length of time, you realize just how hard it is to get 3 people to agree to one thing. The idea that entire agencies of people, in conjunction with private industries, would all decide to agree on the same, evil thing (with no one "letting the real story out" as a "leak") is just... statistically improbable.

 

It's like the whole 9/11 thing. If you've ever met the kind of people who do the State Department/Homeland Security/Dept. of Defense intel bit... no one person has more than a mere sliver of the information that goes into the making of the entire "pie". A "grand conspiracy" not only can't happen under that model, there are simply too many people (with human nature, which, unfortunately is sometimes "oooo, I *know* something, surely it's ok if I *just* tell my wife") to KEEP "grand secrets".

 

I am totally, utterly with Spy Car.

 

My first MMR, in the 70s, was found to be a completely invalid vaccine. Completely. A warning went out in the 80s that anyone who had received it needed a new one. I've been Aspie my entire life (born in the 60s). That simply doesn't wash. And it REALLY doesn't wash for all of the older Aspies and Auties (those in their 50s, 60s, 70s, etc.).

 

Yes, we do grow up. ASDs aren't terminal, just a pain in the @ss.

 

 

asta

[Spy Car]

Wasn't there an extensive study done in Sweden or Denmark totally disproving a link between vacinnes and Autism? I watched a documentary about it not to long ago and have also read several studies from various sources reporting the same conclusions. Hmmm...hopefully someone will know what I'm talking about (the documentary) and might be able to link to information about it. I'm too tired and going to bed soon. I know I'll end up missing a heated debate though. ;)

 

There have been multiple studies show NO LINK between autism and vaccines. The one study in England that did suggest a link turned out to be a fraud.

 

There is NO LINK. None!

 

Bill

[Carpe]

I don't think every avenue has been fully explored to declare that there is no link whatsoever. There just isn't one significant enough that it affects everyone, or even most kids.

 

But I am aware of a woman whose son developed "autism" after she finally had him vaccinated at 5 to go to school. However, just because he was diagnosed as autistic does not mean he was. He'd had an adverse reaction to the vaccines that caused brain swelling, which caused autism-like symptoms. It took a couple years before he was back to normal. I vote that he was not actually autistic at any point, but his mother swears by some sort of mud bath detox crazy voodoo program she followed to cure him of his autism.

 

I think most vaccines are safe, but they have never been tested in their current combinations in even a short range study. When they do studies before approving vaccines the children are not following the standard vax schedule to rule out any side effects from other vaccines, so there's no way to know how safe it is until the first group of kids (that were vaccinated with a new schedule) grow up.

 

Full disclosure: My kids don't get the human cell vaccines because it's against my religion, they do however get the others. My sister actually works for a company that makes vaccines in the research department. And I have organized a pox party more than once :)

[Aelwydd]

Meh. I don't believe vaccines cause children to become autistic. There is some hypothesizing going on that, perhaps in some cases, vaccines may act as the inflammatory trigger that sends a previously asymptomatic child into full-blown autism.

 

But actually be the primary underlying cause or reason for autism? No. SpyCar is correct. The body of research (meaning, looking at all the studies as a composite picture) does not bear out anything nearing a statistical significance necessary to establish vaccines as a cause of autism.

 

Personally, I'm far more interested in the research surrounding the use of pitocin (which inhibits a newborn's own production of oxytocin, the so-called bonding and "love" hormone) in as much as 80% of laboring women in the U.S. There have been a few studies showing a strong correlation, although a lot more research is needed before it can be established if pitocin is actually a culprit in the autism epidemic.

[LittleIzumi]

Meh. I don't believe vaccines cause children to become autistic. There is some hypothesizing going on that, perhaps in some cases, vaccines may act as the inflammatory trigger that sends a previously asymptomatic child into full-blown autism.

 

But actually be the primary underlying cause or reason for autism? No. SpyCar is correct. The body of research (meaning, looking at all the studies as a composite picture) does not bear out anything nearing a statistical significance necessary to establish vaccines as a cause of autism.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

There was also a link being investigated between preterm-labor-inhibiting medications and autism/ASD, but I haven't followed up on that. That was of interest to me because my dd with sensory issues was exposed to months of various preterm labor medications. Dh blames the drugs but I'd like to see some hard evidence first.

[Mom-ninja.]

I do an alternative schedule to vaccines. It has nothing to do with fear of autism though. My oldest had a reaction when he was 4 months old, and I decided to do vaccines differently then.

[mamachanse]

4/4 of my siblings reacted to vaccines fairly violently, but none of them developed autism. That's why we (so far) have chosen not to vaccinate. But we constantly reassess.

[kalanamak]

If you've been around the govt for any length of time, you realize just how hard it is to get 3 people to agree to one thing. The idea that entire agencies of people, in conjunction with private industries, would all decide to agree on the same, evil thing (with no one "letting the real story out" as a "leak") is just... statistically improbable.

 

 

 

:iagree:I work in a governmental moshpit, and OMG it is like mudwrestling.

[kalanamak]

I don't know if there is a link, but it seems logical that anytime one is attacking the developing brain of a child with meds or vaccines, the chances of something going wrong during development increase.

 

 

How about including infectious diseases as an attacker, as well?

[asta]

How about including infectious diseases as an attacker, as well?

 

But... but... that doesn't fit the narrative!

 

BAD kalanamak!

 

 

a

[pdalley]

If you've been around the govt for any length of time, you realize just how hard it is to get 3 people to agree to one thing. The idea that entire agencies of people, in conjunction with private industries, would all decide to agree on the same, evil thing (with no one "letting the real story out" as a "leak") is just... statistically improbable.

 

It's like the whole 9/11 thing. If you've ever met the kind of people who do the State Department/Homeland Security/Dept. of Defense intel bit... no one person has more than a mere sliver of the information that goes into the making of the entire "pie". A "grand conspiracy" not only can't happen under that model, there are simply too many people (with human nature, which, unfortunately is sometimes "oooo, I *know* something, surely it's ok if I *just* tell my wife") to KEEP "grand secrets".

 

I am totally, utterly with Spy Car.

 

My first MMR, in the 70s, was found to be a completely invalid vaccine. Completely. A warning went out in the 80s that anyone who had received it needed a new one. I've been Aspie my entire life (born in the 60s). That simply doesn't wash. And it REALLY doesn't wash for all of the older Aspies and Auties (those in their 50s, 60s, 70s, etc.).

 

Yes, we do grow up. ASDs aren't terminal, just a pain in the @ss.

 

 

asta

 

 

:iagree:

 

I have many Aspie traits, so does my husband, our three kids are Aspies and I can find you several of my ancestors who would be labeled Aspies - pre Civil War era.

 

It's genetic here. Vaccines had zilch to do with my kid's being Aspies. Diet has zilch to do with my kids being Aspies. (We did GFCF for two years) Only one birth involved pitocin. The other two came on their due dates.

 

And the thought that the government - that can't even agree on one simple thing most of the time - could enact and keep a vast conspiracy going....:lol:

Edited June 10, 2011 by pdalley

[Carrie12345]

I am pretty confident there is no link.

Still, I wouldn't be shocked if one were to be discovered.

 

The genetic component is undeniable, particularly in my family, lol. I do believe there's an additional "switch" that gets flipped, but I'm tired of looking for it, tyvm.

[asta]

I am pretty confident there is no link.

Still, I wouldn't be shocked if one were to be discovered.

 

The genetic component is undeniable, particularly in my family, lol. I do believe there's an additional "switch" that gets flipped, but I'm tired of looking for it, tyvm.

 

I've decided everything is (literally) one big switch. And sometimes, the combinations are... interesting.

 

I mean, otherwise, what is reproduction? Remember learning about meiosis in biology?

[chiguirre]

Here's a link to the Autism Now series by Robert MacNeil:

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/news/autism/

 

Episode 3 touches on the vaccine/autism connection and the interview with Dr. Martha Herbert, a neurology professor at Harvard, goes into a bit more detail. Basically, although the big studies ruled out vaccines as the only cause of autism, there may well be small groups for whom vaccines do trigger the onset of autism because of an underlying genetic or immune system vulnerability. But, vaccines are only one of many new assaults on our immune system, there's so much out there that may be causing the explosion of autism we're living through, so it's not just vaccines, but they may be part of it for some kids.

 

Personally, in just the 10 years I've been living with autism, I've seen many treatments that were dismissed as completely insane become readily accepted by doctors who work with autistic kids. When we started out, the GFCF diet was considered very loopy, now it's a standard suggestion if your child has gi issues on top of autism. Drugs that were being used off label (and with a whiff of quackery) are routinely tried now. They don't always work, but you're no longer considered a drug-happy nut if your kid is on Risperdal and mood stabilizers. People tend to think parents of spectrum kids are so desperate that they'll try any weird concoction. But, our reality is that there is very little guidance about what autism even is, what might help. We end up having to sort through everything on our own and even other parents with asd kids can't really act as guides because each kid is so different. Not even our doctors can give us much information and are willing to give something a try as long as it's not likely to do any irreparable harm.

 

ETA: Here's a link to a brief article about the Hannah Poling case:

 

http://autism.about.com/b/2010/09/10/poling-family-to-receive-1-5-million-from-vaccine-court.htm

 

The Poling case is public, but there may be more children like her who have successfully gotten compensation from VAERS but signed confidentiality agreements. We don't know how many of them there are. Of course, Hannah Poling had an underlying mitochondrial condition, but the problem is that children are vaccinated without knowing if they are vulnerable or not. They're vaccinated first and THEN their parents find out that vaccines cause their child irreparable harm. In the HP case, she received 9 vaccines in one day, would she have been okay if it had been only 1 or 2? We don't know.

Edited June 10, 2011 by chiguirre

[twoforjoy]

The ONE study that showed any link between autism and vaccines was proven to be not just wrong and unreplicable, but actually fraudulent.

 

So, no, I do not believe there is any link between vaccines and autism or a shred of empirical evidence to support such a link. I think there's ample evidence indicating that no such link exists.

[Embassy]

OP here, I was wondering what others here thought of the linked article. Is it plausible? I realize the studies that have been done thus far show no link, but that doesn't mean further studies won't reveal information that is not presently known, does it?

[Michelle My Bell]

There is NO LINK between autism and vaccines.

 

I can't believe that there are people who still believe this nonsense. It is a "link" that has been throughly disproven. This is really dangerous disinformation.

 

Bill

 

Are you a scientist or just someone who likes scientists?

[actuary]

The ONE study that showed any link between autism and vaccines was proven to be not just wrong and unreplicable, but actually fraudulent.

 

So, no, I do not believe there is any link between vaccines and autism or a shred of empirical evidence to support such a link. I think there's ample evidence indicating that no such link exists.

:iagree:

 

Didn't the researcher in the original study in London falsify data or something along those lines?

[Cindyz]

Here's a link to the Autism Now series by Robert MacNeil:

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/news/autism/

 

Episode 3 touches on the vaccine/autism connection and the interview with Dr. Martha Herbert, a neurology professor at Harvard, goes into a bit more detail. Basically, although the big studies ruled out vaccines as the only cause of autism, there may well be small groups for whom vaccines do trigger the onset of autism because of an underlying genetic or immune system vulnerability. But, vaccines are only one of many new assaults on our immune system, there's so much out there that may be causing the explosion of autism we're living through, so it's not just vaccines, but they may be part of it for some kids.

 

Personally, in just the 10 years I've been living with autism, I've seen many treatments that were dismissed as completely insane become readily accepted by doctors who work with autistic kids. When we started out, the GFCF diet was considered very loopy, now it's a standard suggestion if your child has gi issues on top of autism. Drugs that were being used off label (and with a whiff of quackery) are routinely tried now. They don't always work, but you're no longer considered a drug-happy nut if your kid is on Risperdal and mood stabilizers. People tend to think parents of spectrum kids are so desperate that they'll try any weird concoction. But, our reality is that there is very little guidance about what autism even is, what might help. We end up having to sort through everything on our own and even other parents with asd kids can't really act as guides because each kid is so different. Not even our doctors can give us much information and are willing to give something a try as long as it's not likely to do any irreparable harm.

 

ETA: Here's a link to a brief article about the Hannah Poling case:

 

http://autism.about.com/b/2010/09/10/poling-family-to-receive-1-5-million-from-vaccine-court.htm

 

The Poling case is public, but there may be more children like her who have successfully gotten compensation from VAERS but signed confidentiality agreements. We don't know how many of them there are. Of course, Hannah Poling had an underlying mitochondrial condition, but the problem is that children are vaccinated without knowing if they are vulnerable or not. They're vaccinated first and THEN their parents find out that vaccines cause their child irreparable harm. In the HP case, she received 9 vaccines in one day, would she have been okay if it had been only 1 or 2? We don't know.

 

 

:iagree: I think part of the problem with the spectrum designations is that there are most likely many things that can trigger genetic components. It's not going to be the same for everyone. So while the majority may be fine with this or that, there will be that one or two who are damaged. It could be vaccines, chemicals, medications, certain types of food, who knows. My son has never had a vaccine in is life, yet is somewhere on the spectrum. What if we had vaccinated and he had a reaction (similar to what my husband had as a child, and the reason I chose not to in the first place), perhaps his issues would have been worse. Who knows? No study can predict what will happen with my particular child.

 

There are several problems with vaccines. There are too many given all together, they are given too close together, and they are given without any regard to child or family medical history. There is a growing list of one size fits all, and it just doesn't fit all!

 

I could not get a doctor to sit down with me and go over my husband's medical history and vaccination reactions as a child or help me to come up with a vaccination schedule that would would be safe for MY child. I was told that I could come up with my own schedule and they would administer as I requested, but that was the extent. What other medical issue is there when a doctor does not consider a child and family's medical history before prescribing a treatment or medication?? Because of this, I did lots of research, read everything I could and made my decision without the guidance of a doctor (even though we requested help from three different pediatricians).

 

The vaccination system needs an overhaul and until they start taking individuals and their medical background and history into consideration, as well as cutting back on the insane numbers and combination of vaccinations given, more and more parents are going to choose not to vaccinate their children.

[pdalley]

OP here, I was wondering what others here thought of the linked article. Is it plausible? I realize the studies that have been done thus far show no link, but that doesn't mean further studies won't reveal information that is not presently known, does it?

 

 

There may be as many triggers as there are shades of autism. There may be things that cause autism like symptoms when removed appear to be a cure.

 

I'd say it's plausible. However I believe that we come by ours naturally as it showed up in our family before vaccines were even invented.

[Cindyz]

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-02/health/lancet.retraction.autism_1_andrew-wakefield-mmr-vaccine-and-autism-general-medical-council?_s=PM:HEALTH

 

The study that brought all this up in the first place was disproven and, if I recall correctly, the doctor in charge lost his license or something because of egregious misbehavior. These diseases that vaccines usually prevent (and I say that because I know someone will say it didn't work for them, but they work great for most folks) are really horrible and nothing you want your kid to have if you can help it.

 

Do people really believe that because one study was disproven or faked that it means no link exists?

 

I'm not saying that I know or believe that there is a link, because I really don't know. But this study that everyone points to as being faked doesn't mean that the link does not exist. It just means that it was a bad study and we cannot draw conclusions one way or the other about the possibility of a link.

[Spy Car]

Do people really believe that because one study was disproven or faked that it means no link exists?

 

No. But when you combine the fact that the ONLY study that ever showed a "link" was a complete fraud, that there is no evidenced based study that has found a link, and study after study has fairly conclusively proved there is no statistical justification for a link, then the science is quite clear.

 

The evidence for "NO LINK" is exceedingly strong. This is way beyond the fact that study that linked vaccines and autism was a fraud.

 

Unfortunately anti-scientific misinformation and conspiracy theories spread on the internet. But there is NO LINK between vaccines and autism.

 

Bill

[Joanne]

I'll say it again.

 

I believe the thousands of parents who had a normally functioning and developing child, vaccinated them, and the child changed forever.

 

I believe those parents. Nope, I don't believe that the vaccines "corresponded with naturally occuring autistic symtoms". No, I don't believe those parents mis-read their child up until that point.

 

I believe the parents who know vaccines, for their child, caused what we currently call autism.

[asta]

ETA: Here's a link to a brief article about the Hannah Poling case:

 

http://autism.about.com/b/2010/09/10/poling-family-to-receive-1-5-million-from-vaccine-court.htm

 

The Poling case is public, but there may be more children like her who have successfully gotten compensation from VAERS but signed confidentiality agreements. We don't know how many of them there are. Of course, Hannah Poling had an underlying mitochondrial condition, but the problem is that children are vaccinated without knowing if they are vulnerable or not. They're vaccinated first and THEN their parents find out that vaccines cause their child irreparable harm. In the HP case, she received 9 vaccines in one day, would she have been okay if it had been only 1 or 2? We don't know.

 

Hannah Poling is a red herring: she had an acknowledged, pre-existing mitochondrial disorder.

 

 

a

[asta]

And while we're at it...

 

Just how many times is this argument going to be had on this board???

[SailorMom]

And while we're at it...

 

Just how many times is this argument going to be had on this board???

 

:iagree:

 

I'm pro-vaccine and believe the Autism link has been debunked so many times it ridiculous. However, I don't expect to change anyone's mind.

I do see that some kids have allergic reactions, but that is very different from claiming Autism. I think it is because there is a strong correlation between the age of onset of Autism anyway, and the vaccine schedule, that so many still believe this.

[Mama Geek]

There is NO LINK between autism and vaccines.

 

I can't believe that there are people who still believe this nonsense. It is a "link" that has been throughly disproven. This is really dangerous disinformation.

 

Bill

 

I can't believe that there are people out there who trust their government & researchers this much.

 

You can manipulate research and statistic both. There are too many unexplained "coincidences" for there to be no issues with it.

 

I also don't think that all kids that have autism got it from vaccines either.

[mommaduck]

What says the hive? I have read a few articles lately that talk about a possibility of a link between vaccines and autism and it has nothing to do with thimerosal.

 

An article titled "Groups Call for Federal Investigation of Human Fetal DNA/Autism Link in Vaccines" can be found here

 

ETA: I was wondering what others here thought of the information in the linked article. Is it plausible?

Blind posting here:

 

Yes, there is believed to be a link between genetics and vaccination reactions (whether the reactions are autistic in nature, anaphylatic, increase in potential allergies, etc). When we nearly lost our second child to a vaccination, we were told to consider not vaccinating any future children in the sibling group because of a possible genetic connection (this was our family doctor at the time). She also advised that we read what we could on the subject. The next doctor after her agreed on the condition that we continue to read on the subject in case anything new came up. Our last doctor and current doctor also agree that there is a possible genetic connection (as does the family nurse...aka crazy MIL, who is VERY pro-vax, but agrees on this issue).

 

The issue is, no one wants to do a study on it. It doesn't look good, might scare others off of vaccinations, and would cut profits and up liability.

[Joanne]

I think it is because there is a strong correlation between the age of onset of Autism anyway, and the vaccine schedule, that so many still believe this.

 

 

I am not a conspiracy theorist. My kids are vaccinated. I hate extremism on this (and most) topics.

 

But.............

 

Sorry, and with respect, I believe the parents of vaccine-induced changed children. Autism doesn't strike in a 24 hour window.

[Spy Car]

I am not a conspiracy theorist. My kids are vaccinated. I hate extremism on this (and most) topics.

 

But.............

 

Sorry, and with respect, I believe the parents of vaccine-induced changed children. Autism doesn't strike in a 24 hour window.

 

You're right autism doesn't strike in a 24 hour window. And when researchers have investigated the claims of parents who (perhaps sincerely) believed that vaccines "caused" autism to suddenly strike their children the researchers have found clear evidence of autistic behaviors exhibiting themselves prior to vaccinations by looking at things like family home videos.

 

But people will believe what they want to believe. Even things that are patently untrue.

 

Bill

[WishboneDawn]

Do people really believe that because one study was disproven or faked that it means no link exists?

 

I'm not saying that I know or believe that there is a link, because I really don't know. But this study that everyone points to as being faked doesn't mean that the link does not exist. It just means that it was a bad study and we cannot draw conclusions one way or the other about the possibility of a link.

 

The problem is that no other evidence exists. There are anecdotes but there is no situation under which anecdotes equal good data.

 

To be continually asked to entertain a link between autism and vaccines despite the extreme lack of evidence is unreasonable.

[TracieT]

If you are referring to Dr. Andrew Wakefield, do lots of looking into him. Natural News has some GREAT interviews with him. The claims against him and his research have been proven to be false. He is a VERY interesting person to listen to. I think his specialty is actually bowel disorders. He has some interesting research showing the measles virus living in the digestive tract of children with these disorders, so I don't think his link is the thermerisol, but the viruses themselves.

 

From the many moms of children with Autism I've talked to, I'm convinced Autism is not one thing. I absolutely believe mothers who believe their child's Autism was triggered by a vaccine. I absolutely believe the mothers who say they do not believe it was a vaccine. I've read very interesting writings on a link to Vitamin D deficiency. I find the link with leaky gut syndrome and bowel disorders very interesting.

 

So, in my uneducated opinion, I believe in most cases it is a genetic issue triggered by an outside force....whether it's a virus, a chemical, a drug, etc.

[WishboneDawn]

You're right autism doesn't strike in a 24 hour window. And when researchers have investigated the claims of parents who (perhaps sincerely) believed that vaccines "caused" autism to suddenly strike their children the researchers have found clear evidence of autistic behaviors exhibiting themselves prior to vaccinations by looking at things like family home videos.

 

But people will believe what they want to believe. Even things that are patently untrue.

 

Bill

 

This is the problem with anecdotes and the thing I find very frustrating about this debate. We're asked to ignore real evidence and real statistics with vague, unreasonable assertions (you can't trust them, statisitics can be manipulated) and yet we're asked to accept without question the unexamined and completely subjective anecdotes of parents. We're asked to take the whole matter on faith.

 

Please note that I'm not saying the parents involved are dishonest or inattentive, but they ARE human.

[nmoira]

Bolding mine.

 

If you are referring to Dr. Andrew Wakefield, do lots of looking into him. Natural News has some GREAT interviews with him. The claims against him and his research have been proven to be false.

This is untrue, no matter how personable you may find him. Whatever exonerating evidence he claims to have he did not bother to produce during his extensive (217 day) misconduct hearing.

[WishboneDawn]

Bolding mine.

 

This is untrue, no matter how personable you may find him. Whatever exonerating evidence he claims to have he did not bother to produce during his extensive (217 day) misconduct hearing.

 

He hasn't bothered to present any to this day. He simply travels around claiming there's evidence...Somewhere.

 

It speaks volumes to me that Wakefield continues to be heralded as some sort of leading light in some circles. It simply convinces me that evidence and science is not what the movement is about.

[nd293]

There is NO LINK between autism and vaccines.

 

I can't believe that there are people who still believe this nonsense. It is a "link" that has been throughly disproven. This is really dangerous disinformation.

 

Bill

 

I'm with Bill (or maybe I'll just hide behind him). It seems to me this "link" relies on anecdotal evidence for its continuing existence. Anecdotal evidence, while often emotionally compelling, is not scientific evidence.

 

Nikki

[mommaduck]

I'm with Bill (or maybe I'll just hide behind him). It seems to me this "link" relies on anecdotal evidence for its continuing existence. Anecdotal evidence, while often emotionally compelling, is not scientific evidence.

 

Nikki

 

And no one wants to do the science...that's the issue. WE WANT them to find the connection, because there is strong reason to believe (even DOCTORS have stated such) that there is a genetic connection to vaccination reactions.

[SailorMom]

Interresting aside:

A few nights ago, on PBS News Hour, they had a short feature on the genetic links ot Autism. It does tend to run in fmailies, and they have found solid evidence (actually pinpointing the gene) on chromosomes 16 and 5 that are responsible (out of the 300 families tested) for about 15-20% ( can't remember which) of the Autism cases.

This is after about 5 years of research. The researchers are sure that in the next 10 years they will be able to produce gene connections to at least another 60% -it just takes time to sort through all of the coding.

They did not classify exactly what types of Autism were being researched.

[pdalley]

And while we're at it...

 

Just how many times is this argument going to be had on this board???

:iagree:

 

Probably the same number of times I'm going to be cornered at 'support' groups meetings and grilled as to why my kids aren't being chelated, on the GFCF diet or a zillion other therapies.

 

(That has happened to me quite frequently around our area - at our local 'support' group no less)

 

I went through a spell where I thought our oldest had that sort of reaction to the MMR. However - he was the oldest child and we had tons of pictures and videos of him from birth up. Reviewing those - researching my family history - delaying vaccines for my other two (no reactions at all for either) helped me realize it was genetic in our family.

 

I don't care what therapies other people do for their kids. If it works for their kids then I'm very happy for them. But I am sick and tired of people saying I'm a neglectful parent for acting like autism is just another character trait for my family and accepting it.

 

I think vaccines can cause autistic like symptoms for some kids or maybe even trigger something but autism - for us - is the way we are made. It is in our DNA and it is not some horrid tragedy for us. It is a challenge - every family has one - this is ours. It is a joy - every family has them - this is ours.

[Rivka]

This is the problem with anecdotes and the thing I find very frustrating about this debate. We're asked to ignore real evidence and real statistics with vague, unreasonable assertions (you can't trust them, statisitics can be manipulated) and yet we're asked to accept without question the unexamined and completely subjective anecdotes of parents. We're asked to take the whole matter on faith.

 

Please note that I'm not saying the parents involved are dishonest or inattentive, but they ARE human.

 

I have a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. In my developmental psychopathology course we studied research in which parents of children with and without ADHD were interviewed about possible causes of minor damage to the brain. The parents of kids with ADHD reported significantly more prenatal difficulties, birth complications, medications used at birth, high fevers in infancy, and head trauma (from falls, etc.) than the parents of children without ADHD. But here's the thing: when the researchers went back and compared the actual medical records, they found no differences between the groups at all. It's not that the ADHD group had more problems, it's that they remembered more problems.

 

Human brains are pattern-seekers and meaning-makers. That's what our brains do. It's such a strong tendency that it's well established that we can see patterns and meaning even where it doesn't exist. The parents of the kids with ADHD remembered more problems in pregnancy and infancy because they were trying to make sense out of why their kids were different. It's totally understandable.

 

I'm aware that there are parent accounts of children who were perfectly normal up until they got their MMR, and then suddenly they were autistic. But, as someone else mentioned, retrospective studies of family home videos show that autistic children can be identified long before parents recognize that anything is wrong. (Scroll down here to the section on the timing of development of autism.) Parents' memories are reorganized into a meaningful pattern, because that's what our brains do. With the exception of very rare cases of vaccine-induced encephalitis, there is simply no evidence at all that vaccination can produce a dramatic behavioral change.

 

Finally, there have been huge well-controlled studies of very large numbers of children, which have not found a link between autism and vaccination at all. There is simply no reason to believe that the jury is still out on this question.

 

For those who have invoked a conspiracy of researchers and vaccine manufacturers, I remind you that Andrew Wakefield had a substantial financial interest in his findings. He was hired to conduct his study by lawyers representing parents who wanted to sue vaccine manufacturers. And he also had a patent on an alternative measles vaccine that he could expect would be used much more frequently if the MMR stopped being used. He had a huge amount to gain from his "findings."

[Cindyz]

I don't come down on one side or the other. I think this is still an unknown, and vaccinations should be administered to individuals after reviewing their family history and not based on a one size fits all schedule. My advice to a new parent would be to selectively spread out vaccinations (there are a lot of great schedules out there), as long as there is no family history of vaccination reactions. If a parent or sibling has a history of reactions, then I would be much much more careful.

 

The medical community has some work to do in this area. They need to get out of bed with the pharmaceutical companies, and the health care industry needs to come back to being about helping people and not about making money. Maybe then we can begin to trust them again.

[mommaduck]

I don't come down on one side or the other. I think this is still an unknown, and vaccinations should be administered to individuals after reviewing their family history and not based on a one size fits all schedule. My advice to a new parent would be to selectively spread out vaccinations (there are a lot of great schedules out there), as long as there is no family history of vaccination reactions. If a parent or sibling has a history of reactions, then I would be much much more careful.

 

The medical community has some work to do in this area. They need to get out of bed with the pharmaceutical companies, and the health care industry needs to come back to being about helping people and not about making money. Maybe then we can begin to trust them again.

 

:iagree:

 

 

To a previous poster: I was referring to doing research on finding genetic connections to vaccination reactions, not to simply finding genetic links to Autism. There are many more children that react in other ways that lead to brain damage or death. Also, I would like to see research done on vaccinations and auto-immune disorders.

[kchara]

I agree with the genetic component. We decided not to vaccinate because on both sides, we have family members with neurological difficulties, including autism. I think that for some families, there is a switch, and I think that vaccines can trip that switch. I think there are also many other factors involved, but I don't believe that we should automatically dismiss vaccines as one of them.

 

I also don't trust "unbiased" studies financed by people who are all in bed together and making billions off of the "safety" of vaccines. I just don't think there's enough truly unbiased research out there to know what is going on, and there's too much money to be made for unbiased research to be done, honestly.

[DianeW88]

There have been multiple studies show NO LINK between autism and vaccines. The one study in England that did suggest a link turned out to be a fraud.

 

There is NO LINK. None!

 

Bill

 

:iagree: