Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110606/ap_on_re/us_rel_episcopal_catholic We are becoming one. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 There is a parish near me that has been waiting for the ordinariate to be implemented. They hope to cross over soon. I am very interested to see what happens, as I love my Anglican heritage, and also the worldwide historic nature of my Catholic church. This may impact me in a personal way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Isn't it amazing? It's very strange to be going backwards-meaning, when I was a Protestant, everyone was splitting. That was the news, who split and where their new church was. Now as a Catholic they're joining and becoming one. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm sure everyone will be watching closely to see the transition. Sounds like it's coming to a church near you soon! I think it's so cool to think that we can soon go to Mass in the beautiful old stone Episcopal and Anglican churches. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Yes it is amazing for sure!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What's the opposite of Reformation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamee Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Don't tell my dad. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 What's the opposite of Reformation? Unification? :D Don't tell my dad. ;) Not a word. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Welcome!!! :grouphug: "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. " John 17:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What's the opposite of Reformation? ConFORMation?:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Then of course there are the Episcopalians who are of no such mind. I much prefer the latter. To each her /his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Yeah, this overture was made by the Pope a few years ago, to the CoE. I think a mere trickle of maybe 50 priests went over? There will be a few Episcopal churches that will join, but Episcopalians are highly unlikely to move en masse (heh, pun intended) to Rome. If they were, I'd be converting. I appreciate the Anglican heritage, and I'm not Roman at all in my spiritual identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The homophobia, pederasty and lack of transparency will pollute the Episcopalian church. Swell. This is a fringe of a fringe movement. I have always thought of the Episcopal church as the last sane voice before I jumped ship on the whole mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It's just one parish, right? I ask because I had first read it to be that the Episcopalian church (as a whole) was merging with the Roman Catholic church, and then I read it more closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The homophobia, pederasty and lack of transparency will pollute the Episcopalian church. Swell. This is a fringe of a fringe movement. I have always thought of the Episcopal church as the last sane voice before I jumped ship on the whole mess. No, it won't. See my post above. :001_smile: A few trad. churches will swim the Tiber, but most are not going to be interested. Even if ECUSA did go by the wayside, there's always the Quakers (a.k.a., Friends). They're pretty accepting and even-keeled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 It's just one parish, right? I ask because I had first read it to be that the Episcopalian church (as a whole) was merging with the Roman Catholic church, and then I read it more closely. So far, it's just one church. And as has been expressed here, there are some which won't even consider joining at this time. To those who are less than thrilled, I have nothing at all against the Episcopal Church, I'm just so happy to see that we are finally beginning the process of becoming one as we were always meant to be. :) I went to a wedding at an Episcopal Church many years ago, and I remember thinking then how much of the service was the same as the Catholic Mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm not sure if it's a better or worse option that the "alternative oversight" from the Nigerian bishop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What's the opposite of Reformation? The Orthodox Church, which just kept on keeping on while that whole reformation-thingy played out over there in the West. No need to re-form the original form. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerkaza Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 There is a parish near me that has been waiting for the ordinariate to be implemented. They hope to cross over soon. I am very interested to see what happens, as I love my Anglican heritage, and also the worldwide historic nature of my Catholic church. This may impact me in a personal way. Dumb question. Is the Episcopal Church similar to The Church of England (Prince William's church)? Is that Anglican? I really enjoyed the lovely service when Will and Kate were married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 As best I can tell, Episcopalian is the same as Anglican, but the US version. Anglican is the same as the Church of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Dumb question. Is the Episcopal Church similar to The Church of England (Prince William's church)? Is that Anglican? I really enjoyed the lovely service when Will and Kate were married. It was the Church of England but after the American revolution there was a split (obviously. :)) and most of the Anglican churches moved to the Episcopal church of Scotland for ordination. The Episcopal church is now in communion with the CoE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) The homophobia, pederasty and lack of transparency will pollute the Episcopalian church. Swell. This is a fringe of a fringe movement. I have always thought of the Episcopal church as the last sane voice before I jumped ship on the whole mess. Really? We're in the middle of a worldwide conflict in the Anglican communion on issues of homesexuality and women being ordained and it's appropriate to go off on Catholicism? I love the Anglican church but we're not so perfect that we can be contemptuous of other denominations. Edited June 8, 2011 by WishboneDawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It's just one parish, right? I ask because I had first read it to be that the Episcopalian church (as a whole) was merging with the Roman Catholic church, and then I read it more closely. Yup, just one. Waaay too much is being made of this. Best to get informed about what's going on with the worldwide Anglican communion before celebrating this or hailing it as some sign of things to come. There's currently some conflict between conservative and liberal elements, mostly in regards to the ordination of women and homosexuals. Most of the conflict is between western churches and African churches but there's also some within western nations and as a result some parishes have left the communion and a few have gone the the RC. The vast majority of us however are committed to staying, to working out our issues and aren't going anywhere (except the occasional RC or EO mass because of current efforts to seduce us by WTM members :D). There are some very fundamental issues that will ensure most Anglican and Episcopalians won't be going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hope their pension plan is as good as ECUSA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The homophobia, pederasty and lack of transparency will pollute the Episcopalian church. Swell. This is a fringe of a fringe movement. I have always thought of the Episcopal church as the last sane voice before I jumped ship on the whole mess. [since things don't transfer well over the net, I'm going to preface this with a statement that it is heartfelt and not sarcastic] Oh, Elizabeth - I'm so sorry that the church you knew is being split up. When pedophile-a-rama finally hit the major news during Pope John Paul's papacy, I just... threw up. I mean, we'd been pretty hit or miss Catholics anyway, but that was just a step too far. I'd been teaching kid all about the concept of hypocrisy (!) - about how saying nothing was tacit agreement - and there we were, standing in Church. I still remember the day. There was sun streaming in through the left side of the chapel (pretty colors! she says in her best Ralph voice), and we stood up to say the Nicene Creed. I got as far as "We believe in one..." and then - bubkus. I just sat down and cried. I stared at that beautiful Mary statue and cried and cried and cried. Now, I know "holy catholic and apostolic" means "holy universal and from the apostles", but you know what? Peter was an apostle, and he was the first pope. And the current pope, as popular as he was, wasn't doing a d@mn thing to put all of those bastards in prison. And I got up and left. My mother was horrified. I told her I'd be back when I saw smoke. And got an apology. And people in jail. Maybe. So, fast forward. We got the man whom I dubbed the "Evil Santa". I was not convinced. (everyone I knew loved him - funnily enough, they now can't stand him, but I digress...) There were no press releases. No apologies. I kept checking the Vatican's website. And then a strange thing happened. Deep in the heart of google, on little blogs and hometown newspapers, I started to read about priests going to jail. Now, one would think being de-frocked first would be better, but actually, it isn't: as long as you have the collar, the Vatican owns your @ss. Funny thing about this Pope Benedict: he's not into pressers. The big Irish thing? It was in the works for 2 years before it hit the press. And so it goes, all around the world. The former "papal bulldog" is now off the leash and has slowly been talking to victims, ordering priests turned over to authorities (no matter the statute of limitations), instituting massive programs for youth safety that organizations worldwide are emulating, and has completely over-hauled the seminary system. All without fanfare. Because what's the point in doing it if you're doing it for a pat on the back? Oh, and he apologized. Repeatedly. Acknowledging that there is no apology on the planet that will ever be good enough. -- I grew up within the "cult of JPII". Never really liked the guy. Now I kinda know why: he had the whole world at his feet, and he looked the other way. Most of the world doesn't like Benedict. They think he's a Nazi. They say he's too smart for his own good, that he's a hard @ss. Yeah, well. He's smart enough to figure out that we can't stop AIDS with a bandaid (we have to get the guys to stop going to the prostitutes and then infecting their wives). We can't stop world poverty with food aid (we have to empower people). We can't survive as a species if we keep killing ourselves. We can't survive as a species if we don't procreate. We all came from somewhere, and none of us can prove where that is, so we might as well have faith. All of us. In my head that had something to do with your post. asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hope their pension plan is as good as ECUSA's. I wonder how they handle all of this with married clergy but they are leaving an Anglican Rite option so they don't have to change their liturgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I heart B16 and Asta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) ... Edited June 8, 2011 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Really? We're in the middle of a worldwide conflict in the Anglican communion on issues of homesexuality and women being ordained and it's appropriate to go off on Catholicism? I love the Anglican church but we're not so perfect that we can be contemptuous of other denominations. But... I personally think it is a good thing that there is at least a conversation going on regarding homosexuality and women being ordained. Unlike in the RC Church, where the answer is just no. FTR: I left the Roman Catholic Church for the Episcopalian Church because of some of the issues that divide the two. I *love* the RC Church, and only really ever felt at home there, and really, really miss it. But there were some major theological issues I couldn't pass up. I'd be very upset if all Episcopalian Churches merged with Roman Catholic Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) ... Edited June 8, 2011 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Another Asta fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Another Asta fan. And another.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [In my head that had something to do with your post. asta It was brilliant Asta. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'd be very upset if all Episcopalian Churches merged with Roman Catholic Church. Not going to happen. They might accept our married ministers but I doubt then MANY female ministers in my (Anglican) diocese, never mind our female bishop, would be welcomed with open arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I love this group. I learn something new every day. LOL I don't think people will be coming in droves but its definitely a start. With the millions of different opinions out there, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in NE Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Asta, I just want to say that I appreciate your post. It's a lot to think about. I guess, as a summary, one can say that "There is nothing new under the sun." The world is fallen. Chuck Colson said in one of his books, that as Christians, it is our duty to try to make our existence here as much like "heaven on earth" as possible. (That's obviously a paraphrase). I think that righteous judgement is part of our responsibility. We must protect the weak. Thanks for your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The Orthodox Church, which just kept on keeping on while that whole reformation-thingy played out over there in the West. No need to re-form the original form. ;) Yep :D I'm just waiting for the RC to come back ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reamaria Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The Orthodox Church, which just kept on keeping on while that whole reformation-thingy played out over there in the West. No need to re-form the original form. ;) Orthodox Church had their own little re-formation some 500 years earlier, so not quite the original but at least they kept the Sacraments and most of the Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Really? We're in the middle of a worldwide conflict in the Anglican communion on issues of homesexuality and women being ordained and it's appropriate to go off on Catholicism? I love the Anglican church but we're not so perfect that we can be contemptuous of other denominations. To clarify , raised Catholic. On mother's side, literally several generations of Episcopalian ministers. Thus I do have an insider view on both that forms the basis of my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [since things don't transfer well over the net, I'm going to preface this with a statement that it is heartfelt and not sarcastic] Oh, Elizabeth - I'm so sorry that the church you knew is being split up. When pedophile-a-rama finally hit the major news during Pope John Paul's papacy, I just... threw up. I mean, we'd been pretty hit or miss Catholics anyway, but that was just a step too far. I'd been teaching kid all about the concept of hypocrisy (!) - about how saying nothing was tacit agreement - and there we were, standing in Church. I still remember the day. There was sun streaming in through the left side of the chapel (pretty colors! she says in her best Ralph voice), and we stood up to say the Nicene Creed. I got as far as "We believe in one..." and then - bubkus. I just sat down and cried. I stared at that beautiful Mary statue and cried and cried and cried. Now, I know "holy catholic and apostolic" means "holy universal and from the apostles", but you know what? Peter was an apostle, and he was the first pope. And the current pope, as popular as he was, wasn't doing a d@mn thing to put all of those bastards in prison. And I got up and left. My mother was horrified. I told her I'd be back when I saw smoke. And got an apology. And people in jail. Maybe. So, fast forward. We got the man whom I dubbed the "Evil Santa". I was not convinced. (everyone I knew loved him - funnily enough, they now can't stand him, but I digress...) There were no press releases. No apologies. I kept checking the Vatican's website. And then a strange thing happened. Deep in the heart of google, on little blogs and hometown newspapers, I started to read about priests going to jail. Now, one would think being de-frocked first would be better, but actually, it isn't: as long as you have the collar, the Vatican owns your @ss. Funny thing about this Pope Benedict: he's not into pressers. The big Irish thing? It was in the works for 2 years before it hit the press. And so it goes, all around the world. The former "papal bulldog" is now off the leash and has slowly been talking to victims, ordering priests turned over to authorities (no matter the statute of limitations), instituting massive programs for youth safety that organizations worldwide are emulating, and has completely over-hauled the seminary system. All without fanfare. Because what's the point in doing it if you're doing it for a pat on the back? Oh, and he apologized. Repeatedly. Acknowledging that there is no apology on the planet that will ever be good enough. -- I grew up within the "cult of JPII". Never really liked the guy. Now I kinda know why: he had the whole world at his feet, and he looked the other way. Most of the world doesn't like Benedict. They think he's a Nazi. They say he's too smart for his own good, that he's a hard @ss. Yeah, well. He's smart enough to figure out that we can't stop AIDS with a bandaid (we have to get the guys to stop going to the prostitutes and then infecting their wives). We can't stop world poverty with food aid (we have to empower people). We can't survive as a species if we keep killing ourselves. We can't survive as a species if we don't procreate. We all came from somewhere, and none of us can prove where that is, so we might as well have faith. All of us. In my head that had something to do with your post. asta I agree. This pope has a spine and is a man of great courage . I appreciate your thoughtful and soul-baring post. You are what the Church should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Orthodox Church had their own little re-formation some 500 years earlier, so not quite the original but at least they kept the Sacraments and most of the Truth. We could debate that one all day long (as both sides say the other left)...but the difference is, even the RC admits to being the one to make changes. Therefore, the EO DID stay the same (we didn't add anything to the Creed, we didn't change the Baptism/Chrismation/Eucharist being done at once and served to infants, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Asta, I just want to say that I appreciate your post. It's a lot to think about. I guess, as a summary, one can say that "There is nothing new under the sun." The world is fallen. Chuck Colson said in one of his books, that as Christians, it is our duty to try to make our existence here as much like "heaven on earth" as possible. (That's obviously a paraphrase). I think that righteous judgement is part of our responsibility. We must protect the weak. Thanks for your post. Charles Colson, when in a position of power, abused his position, committed felonies, undermined the Constitution and helped put the United States through hell. His actions were as far away from creating a "heaven on earth" as possible. For me that history doesn't get washed away by his claim of being born again. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 We could debate that one all day long (as both sides say the other left)...but the difference is, even the RC admits to being the one to make changes. Therefore, the EO DID stay the same (we didn't add anything to the Creed, we didn't change the Baptism/Chrismation/Eucharist being done at once and served to infants, etc). Or, one could just sit back and recognize that the Holy Spirit worked all of this out eons before any of us were born... and that we all just have a different role to play for the plan to come to fruition. a (who had a rather large shakabuku moment this week) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Re: the pope- I don't understand the hatred of him, I think he's amazing. Utterly amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I don't hate the pope. He's simply irrelevant to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Charles Colson, when in a position of power, abused his position, committed felonies, undermined the Constitution and helped put the United States through hell. His actions were as far away from creating a "heaven on earth" as possible. For me that history doesn't get washed away by his claim of being born again. Bill Blech. I'd never heard of him. I just looked him up. I'm all for reforming oneself, but I don't buy the heaven on earth thing from someone who was essentially a US version (born again!) of Adolf Eichmann. Ya gotta have a center. As Minnie Driver's character says in Grosse Pointe Blank: "There are things you do not do." a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I don't hate the pope. He's simply irrelevant to me. I would hope so! It would be weird if he was! :001_smile: a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Re: the pope- I don't understand the hatred of him, I think he's amazing. Utterly amazing. I agree. And I feel the same about Blessed John Paul. I'm at a loss for how to respond to anything in this thread. If either of them were political figures instead of religious ones, some of these posts probably wouldn't be acceptable. It seems the Catholic Church is fair game for anything. And it's not only people outside the faith, as many of us within do a pretty good job too. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I would hope so! It would be weird if he was! :001_smile: a Well, to some people, he's a Big Deal. Especially, weirdly enough, to many non-Catholics. I have a few Baptist friends, who are always going on about the Pope and how he's the anti-Christ and all that. It's kind of funny how they feel so strongly about him, that they end up giving him a great deal of relevance by virtue of all the energy and emotion they spend hating him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerkaza Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 As best I can tell, Episcopalian is the same as Anglican, but the US version. Anglican is the same as the Church of England. Thanks, that's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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