What do you all LOVE so much about Rod & Staff?

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I see the books at the displays, and they look so dry from a distance that I can't even approach them! I shudder at the sight!!!

BUT, everyone here seems to LOVE them and raves about them! What is it that makes them so wonderful? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really am curious! You have piqued my curiousity and now I really want to know....so tell me.....what makes them special?

Thanks!

[SilverMoon]

They're efficient, thorough, solid, and do the job remarkably well. The student texts explain new concepts clearly. They keep old concepts reviewed often enough to keep them fresh, while working on the new concepts. The TEs hold your hand as much as you need it, right down to scripted teaching (which can be skipped entirely if you don't want it). The TEs also include extra oral review, common mistakes, and a complete copy of the students page.

 

They are old fashioned. They also have no fluff, fuss or gimmicks. :)

[JadeOrchidSong]

They're efficient, thorough, solid, and do the job remarkably well. The student texts explain new concepts clearly. They keep old concepts reviewed often enough to keep them fresh, while working on the new concepts. The TEs hold your hand as much as you need it, right down to scripted teaching (which can be skipped entirely if you don't want it). The TEs also include extra oral review, common mistakes, and a complete copy of the students page.

 

They are old fashioned. They also have no fluff, fuss or gimmicks. :)

:iagree:Well said!!!

I don't use the TM, but the student text is very good and solid. I don't need to worry about any gaps in dc's grammar.

[Jean in CA]

Thoroughness. Challenging.

 

I've used these programs throughout the years... Easy Grammar, Winston Grammar, ABEKA Grammar, Sonlight LA K, 1, 2 and FLL.

 

My favorite are FLL and R&S. Many programs don't teach diagramming. Many programs use the same sentence structure for their examples. So that you don't even have to know what a verb is, just that every 3rd word in every sentence turns out to be the verb!

 

R&S builds year after year. (We've used 3rd-7th grade levels.) Nothing else we've used comes close to its thoroughness. My kids agreed. We do everything orally, if possible, and only half the exercises. It goes quickly.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Jean in CA

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Is it good at helping you, as the teacher, understand the concepts? Is it as dry as it seems? Do you need to start at 3rd grade to be able to follow it?

[Chris in VA]

LOVE Rod and Staff, for reasons already articulated (very well).

Yes, it helps me understand the concepts, because they are explained so well to the kiddos. Yeah, it's a little dry--if you mean dry as in no chanting, no color, no puzzles or games. Doesn't bother me at all.

No, you don't need to start at Grade 3, but it does run a bit ahead of some programs--it's that thorough and good.

[simka2]

I am a mom who doesn't have a strong background in grammar. I love how thorough these programs are. Also, I have a boy who is very easily distracted and tne simplicity of the layout is really helpful.

[Jean in CA]

Is it good at helping you, as the teacher, understand the concepts? Is it as dry as it seems? Do you need to start at 3rd grade to be able to follow it?

 

 

Having used 3-7th grades, I'd say 5th grade is the last "entry" level you'd be able to jump into R&S without too much trouble. 6th is quite a bit harder and 7th, oy vey! it had my head spinning at times, if it weren't for the teacher's manual. I had never heard of intransitive linking and intransitive complete verbs until now! DD says she learned about them in Latin and it helped solidify her understanding of both English grammar as well as Latin!

 

I also think the writing exercises, interspersed throughout the grammar books, if used consistently over the years are fantastic! I used to think they were too easy or incomplete, but after comparing their exercises to other expensive and extensive separate writing programs, I was very surprised to see the R&S matches in rigor and depth. It might not contain "enough" practice, but once you learn the concepts, I have my children practice what they've learned across the curriculum.

 

And they have an annual 15% off sale every April, making the TM/Student text combo under $30 for almost all grades. That is hard to beat... considering you get grammar, diagramming, and solid writing instruction!

Edited June 3, 2011 by Jean in CA

[mom2jjka]

All of the above plus....it is reusable!

 

The hardcover textbooks are long-lasting, making it very affordable for those with larger families.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I also love the teaching section in the TM. There is a review, then the lesson. It is laid out well, so that you are always reviewing material and know what points need to be covered. R&S makes teaching 5 kids easier, the prep is done and I'm not worried that I'm missing anything.

 

We've used the English, math, social studies, and science. I have not used their reading (we've always done our own thing for that).

 

I can seem dry, but it gets the job done. We save the exciting for elsewhere. :001_smile:

[Jean in CA]

Here's an idea to spice up R&S if you think it's too dry... my 10ds just did this this morning.

 

Instead of giving the correct answer, I ask him to give me the WRONG answer and he can say it in a dorky voice.

 

So imagine this: "Joseph drug his feet when he walked, until his mother learned him to walk right."

 

Or "Are you feeling more better again?"

 

His older sister likes to listen in, just for a few laughs...

[Ellie]

So, you haven't actually picked up any of the books and read through them? If not, that's what you have to do. That's what will hook you (if you tend to like textbooks, that is).:001_smile:

[robsiew]

I agree with everything already written! I also couldn't approach it for a couple years. Finally I broke down last year and dove in... my older two loved it! They are getting a really good grounding in grammar! Next year my 5th grader will use the writing portions in addition to WTM style writing for his writing program. Easy peasy!

[lovelaughs_times_three]

No, I confess, I haven't been able to bring myself to open the books. I did look at Math once, but felt so fast like I was suffocating that I quickly put it down and walked away. :willy_nilly:

But, I have so much respect for all you here, and you all love it so much! I tend towards the Charlotte Mason approach, more than I do the traditional Classical approach. Would that make any difference?

I do need to open the grammar books and see what I think. You all have definitely made me think I need to open my mind.

I have to confess another "prejudice" of mine. The amish style of dress and bonnets of those who sell the products have always made me wonder how they could be up to date on teaching these subjects.

Now don't crucify me here, just being honest. I admit, freely, that I am being narrow-minded and I need to open my mind up!! :D

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I've been leaning towards Analytical Grammar. Do you think the approach is similar?

[boscopup]

Look at the samples on http://rodandstaffbooks.com. You can see what the lessons are like. In the lower levels, one lesson is 2 pages, and they're fairly short. The writing involved is very age appropriate. I used FLL for a bit, but have switched back to R&S because I like that they are using the grammar by copying the exercises out of the book (I don't assign every exercise... Probably every other one if there is a sentence involved). Some people use it orally, and I've done that too.

 

My 6 year old actually likes R&S better than FLL. That surprised me.

 

It is very thorough, and it had plenty of opportunity for review that you can use our not use dependent upon need. From grade 3 on up, there are worksheets available. There is oral review in the TM and sometimes in the book, plus about every 5 lessons our so is a review lesson.

 

The TM tells you what to do without actually being scripted (it doesn't give you an exact script to say word for word, but it tells you what to talk about).

 

It's designed to be usable in a one room school house, so that also makes it nice for teaching multiple grades at one time (though I haven't tried that aspect myself yet).

 

Please excuse swype errors...

[MyLittleBears]

No, I confess, I haven't been able to bring myself to open the books. I did look at Math once, but felt so fast like I was suffocating that I quickly put it down and walked away. :willy_nilly:

But, I have so much respect for all you here, and you all love it so much! I tend towards the Charlotte Mason approach, more than I do the traditional Classical approach. Would that make any difference?

I do need to open the grammar books and see what I think. You all have definitely made me think I need to open my mind.

I have to confess another "prejudice" of mine. The amish style of dress and bonnets of those who sell the products have always made me wonder how they could be up to date on teaching these subjects.

Now don't crucify me here, just being honest. I admit, freely, that I am being narrow-minded and I need to open my mind up!! :D

 

I also admit bias to the blandness. BUT.... I eventually learned that they teach with very traditional methods (I've only used the grammar and math) and those methods work very,very well!

BTW- HOD uses the R&S grammar books and they are CM-I think they tweak it a bit in the earlier grades, though.

[AHASRADA]

2nding everything already mentioned here. We love the simplicity, the thoroughness, and the wholesome, old-fashioned drawings.

 

I use R&S with my dyslexic dd, who needs an enormous amount of repetition to retain concepts, particularly labels (verb, adjective, etc.) and very simple explanations. She is very successful with R&S, and particularly enjoys the diagramming.

 

I thought I would address the religious content, though, since this could turn off some secular families. While it is true that several of the practice sentences contain strong Christian content, there are also plenty that don't (I'd say the religious content represents about 1/3 of the book). We do most of the exercises orally, but each lesson contains both oral and written lessons, meaning there are double exercises covering the same content for each lesson. Therefore, even though we skip the majority of the exercises with Christian references, there are still plenty of others in order to drive the points home.

 

All that said, if you have looked inside some R&S books and have a great aversion to them, maybe they just aren't right for your family. Don't just take our word for it! Every textbook, even a great one, isn't right for every student and/or teacher! Before deciding, though, I would recommend looking through the online samples very thoroughly to make sure.

 

HTH,

[lmrich]

I do a lot of it orally. She also does the diagramming on the white board. I let her work in the book sometimes (I buy used). We take turns doing the excercises - she does the first then I do the next and she has to make sure I get it right. My oldest just do it on their own through their hybrid school. Although it is dry - it is quick! 15 minutes tops.

[NittanyJen]

Call me strange, and for certain, we are only about 2 1/2 weeks into the 3rd grade Grammar book, but so far we are not finding it dry. When I hear dry, I am thinking dull, boring, sandpaper-to-my-teeth-when-I-think-about-getting-it-out.

 

The lessons are so short and efficient, it doesn't have time to get dry. My 7YO appreciates the lack of bells and fluff that he had in his PS books; it was hard for him to drill down to what exactly he was supposed to be learning and ignore all the silly garbage peppering his books. In the R&S 3rd grade Grammar so far, the writing isn't boring at all, but it also isn't fluffy; it's very clear, concise, and they tell you what they want you to know so that you can understand the lesson, do the lesson, and move on to another subject. He is actually enjoying diagramming his sentences and thinks it's kind of fun!

 

To us, that is the opposite of dry.

 

It may not suit everyone; we are in fact doing a side-by-side comparison (my DS10 is trying out Growing With Grammar while DS7 uses Rod and Staff Grammar) to see which program we like better; no votes in yet, as both boys are quite pleased with the subject so far.

 

I'd advise not judging a book by its cover :)

 

Jen

http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/

(plug! My husband just guest-blogged for me on what it's like to be the non-teaching spouse of a homeschool family!)

[morosophe]

I have to admit, I am a person who is almost allergic to textbooks. I hate them. Hate them, hate them, hate them.

 

Except for when it comes to grammar, apparently. The first time I checked out Rod & Staff's grammar series, (which starts with their second-grade text Preparing to Build,) I knew this was exactly what I wanted. I even told my husband that I was pathetically excited over a very textbooky textbook.

 

Sadly, in my opinion, grammar is meant to be kind of boring. Once you get up to diagramming sentences, it can get a lot more fun. (I agree with a previous poster's son on that point.) Despite the success of Schoolhouse Rock for pounding some beginning grammar knowledge into a child's head, however, the best way to really learn about it is to do the boring exercises. Therefore, in my opinion, a grammar might as well be complete if it has to be boring. (As long as it's not completely boring. :p)

 

And Rod & Staff seems to be exactly what I want to use for my child. It lets me take a short time each day to cover a topic. It allows my child to read about it along with me. This is important to me because my child appears to be a visual learner, so oral grammar approaches such as First Language Lessons would be a complete flop for him. It is well-organized enough that if my son wanted to go back for a refresher course on whatever he'd forgotten from a previous lesson, it would be fairly easy to find. And it provides plenty of exercises. (In fact, it provides so many exercises that I feel perfectly justified only requiring my son to do a certain amount unless he's struggling with whatever concept is being taught.)

 

Now, since my son is a visual learner, I'm sure the black and white will be a disappointment to him. But that's where I'm glad I'm a homeschooler--like many others here have done, I'm planning on using a whiteboard for the exercises, and will probably play with different colored pens to do different things. (For instance, I might have him write with a different color instead of underlining something, or cross wrong things out with the red marker, like any good proofreader has fun doing.) That way, I hope that the "fun" of grammar will be essentially linked to the actual subject matter: understanding words and how they properly work together to communicate information.

 

Plus, I got both student's book and teacher edition at the local used homeschooling store for a combined total of $7.00. That sturdy binding really does make a difference!

[silliness7]

I see the books at the displays, and they look so dry from a distance that I can't even approach them! I shudder at the sight!!!

BUT, everyone here seems to LOVE them and raves about them! What is it that makes them so wonderful? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really am curious! You have piqued my curiousity and now I really want to know....so tell me.....what makes them special?

Thanks!

 

They are solid, no nonsense, get the job done. They are logical, sequential and efficient. They just make sense to my brain. I no longer have to wonder and worry if their grammar book is covering all the bases adequately. I love that confidence!! The lovely hardcover non-consumable pass it down through 7 kids kind of a book is a bonus!

[silliness7]

Is it good at helping you, as the teacher, understand the concepts? Absolutely! I have learned more grammar with R&S for this one school year than all my years of homeschooling. Is it as dry as it seems? I don't find it dry. But that's possibly because I don't expect it to be exciting. Although we get a certain amount of satisfaction from conquering a challenge. And I personally like the religious nature of the sentences. Do you need to start at 3rd grade to be able to follow it? I started my 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 8th graders in R&S for the first time this year at grade level. They all did fine although we didn't get started with it until Oct./Nov. and so did not get our books finished. We will just pick up with where we left off when fall comes.

.

[silliness7]

I've been leaning towards Analytical Grammar. Do you think the approach is similar?

 

No, NO, No!! We used AG the year before this one and the one before that. AG is not half as thorough as R&S. And frankly, the endless parsing and diagramming gets really old. Now we did not do the lesson on day 4. That was a writing lesson or editing or something? We did IEW for writing those years and skipped that. So for us, it was just parsing and diagramming, parsing and diagramming. R&S is EXCITING compared to that. Plus you learn more grammar. ;)

[laughing lioness]

I am a recovering grammar-phobe. I avoided grammar for many years (I seriously thought I didn't have the grammar gene-and I'd already written a 93 page thesis without really knowing the 8 parts of speech so I figured, "how badly does one need grammar anyway?". Finally got my feet wet with Our Mother Tongue about 6 years ago and discovered that grammar was do-able, and actually fun;). And I can really tell a difference in my writing. And it's actually increasing my understanding of things- like in Bible Study a couple weeks ago we had a 1/2 discussion on the grammar of a passage!!

 

Just this year took the plunge with R & S and am regretting not getting them 2 decades ago!! It is solid as a rock.

I haven't found it dry. The lessons are concise. we are doing 3rd, 5th and 9th grade thsi year.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Hmmmmm.......Sounds like I should give it a try!!! ;)

[Nestof3]

The Rod and Staff Grammar is impressive, IMO. I used Easy Grammar with my eldest, and even when I heard of diagramming, I refused to jump on board. Well, I finally did! I've only used through Grade 5, though. I really like it so far.

[KeriJ]

For what it's worth, I think R&S grammar is CM'ish. There was thread awhile back that quoted from her grammar lessons and they sounded very similar to R&S. I have found it to be very "conversational" rather than too much of a text book feel.

 

We are another family that was skeptical but ended up loving it. We do about half orally and pick a few of the written assignments to do. 2nd grade dd learned so much from this book and ended up loving it by the end of the year!

Edited June 4, 2011 by KeriJ

[KeriJ]

I also wanted to add that after using R&S English 2, we dabbled in FLL2 for a little while. It really threw me off for some reason. R&S had moved along so steadily and sequentially. FLL felt like it was jumping all around and barely touching on each topic. Maybe it's just me, but I felt like we weren't understanding anything in FLL.

[ryyans]

Could not be happier with our decision to use Rod and Staff year :001_smile:

[2_girls_mommy]

R&S is all we have ever used for L.A. and math. I have not even had a desire or need to look at anything else. As to what do I LOVE about it, well everyone else has given my educational reasons.

 

But nobody said this: I actually love the pastel, soft colors and the simple line drawing (no color) illustrations. When I look at other products now that are covered in cartoons I find them very distracting. There is more ink wasted on the colorful pages that only have 2 or 3 real problems on some of the math worksheets I have seen. So what others might think is dry, I find calming and efficient.

[coralloyd]

For what it's worth, I think R&S grammar is CM'ish. There was thread awhile back that quoted from her grammar lessons and they sounded very similar to R&S. I have found it to be very "conversational" rather than too much of a text book feel.

 

We are another family that was skeptical but ended up loving it. We do about half orally and pick a few of the written assignments to do. 2nd grade dd learned so much from this book and ended up loving it by the end of the year!

 

:iagree: We are a very CM family, and we love R&S because it is very conversational. This makes it ingaging and not dry. You know how some living books look dry because there are no pictures or bells and whistles, it's the same way with R&S. If you do most of it orally like we do it can be very enjoyable.

Edited June 4, 2011 by coralloyd

[m0mmaBuck]

I love it for all of the reasons stated above and for the fact that I've finally found a LA program that doesn't make my son cry. LA is definitely not his favorite topic, but at least Rod and Staff is gentle and engaging enough that he doesn't completely disintegrate at the thought of doing LA.

[Finnella]

I'm the only one in the family that loves and understands grammar. (Probably the love comes from the understanding.) Therefore, I wanted my son to learn the grammar he hadn't been getting in ps. R&S does just that.

 

I'll admit that the cover isn't pretty, but I find the interior clean and well laid out. The lessons are systematic and logical. I love the frequent review as it's very helpful for my son. And when it comes to basic building blocks of knowledge (grammar included), I'll choose effective over fun every time. My son isn't any more unhappy with R&S than with anything else that covers grammar, and he's actually learning it with R&S. It's also been helpful with my older son (still in ps) and my husband. They've often listened in and learned something from a lesson.

 

My only off-putting experience was a religious brochure I got when I ordered directly from them. I didn't care for it all; it was far more conservative than we are. While many of the practice sentences in R&S use Christian subject matter, I haven't seen anything approaching the radicalism from their brochure in the textbook.

[Maverick_Mom]

I don't know if you're talking about a particular subject or R & S in general, but I'll answer in regard to math.

 

It worked. :)

 

It went at just the right pace for dd, with just the right amount of review, and just the right teacher helps for me.

 

I liked the wholesomeness of it. Dd, however, thought it was "corny." She referred to it as "Rotten Staff." :rolleyes: We stopped using it when she went back to school. But her performance in math there showed that R & S had served her well.

 

My only problem with it was that it was nonconsumable. If it didn't have some much copying, I would've used it with my (pencil-phobic) sons.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Do you think this is a program that I could/should use as a spine, but use other more fun workbooks (like Scholastic Grammar Games) as the practice? Or is it not well-suited for that? In other words, use this book as the explanationteaching to my kids of what an adjective is, but use other workbooks for the practice in finding the adjectives? Do the lessons lend themselves to this, or is the practice in the books inherent and necessary for the teaching/explanation?

Or, am I better off to stick with Analytical Grammar or Grammar Ace if I'm using it only as a spine?

[TexasRachel]

They're efficient, thorough, solid, and do the job remarkably well. The student texts explain new concepts clearly. They keep old concepts reviewed often enough to keep them fresh, while working on the new concepts. The TEs hold your hand as much as you need it, right down to scripted teaching (which can be skipped entirely if you don't want it). The TEs also include extra oral review, common mistakes, and a complete copy of the students page.

 

They are old fashioned. They also have no fluff, fuss or gimmicks. :)

 

:iagree: plus the diagramming. We do it orally because dd is strong in grammar and that helps with the dryness.

[Jean in CA]

Do you think this is a program that I could/should use as a spine, but use other more fun workbooks (like Scholastic Grammar Games) as the practice? Or is it not well-suited for that? In other words, use this book as the explanationteaching to my kids of what an adjective is, but use other workbooks for the practice in finding the adjectives? Do the lessons lend themselves to this, or is the practice in the books inherent and necessary for the teaching/explanation?

Or, am I better off to stick with Analytical Grammar or Grammar Ace if I'm using it only as a spine?

 

I don't know you that you'll get the full benefit of R&S, if you don't do the exercises. They progress in difficulty. Usually the exercises are categorzied into several sections. The class practice (2 sections) and the written (2-4 sections) all progress in level of difficulty, ending with a comprehensive review of lessons learned thus far.

 

If you are only going to use R&S for the explanation, I would not bother using it at all. If you listen to SWB speak on grammar stage learning... kids at this age thrive on repetition, memory work and simple quesion and answer method of learning. THEY do not find it boring. So, I think while the adults are worried that grammar in general and R&S is not "exciting," unless the adults convey this attitude to their kids, you should be just fine!

 

Good luck!

[Susie in MS]

Oh your other thread about not liking R&S I agreed that I didn't like the English and how it takes so long to just read through the lessons and that there are other good programs out there that get the job done much faster. Of course I am not talking about the 2nd grade book that has short and sweet lessons.

 

But I would like to balance it out with what I like about R&S. We are using more and more of the 1st grade math. I have up to the 3rd. I like that the lessons are easy to teach. I like that the math facts are the focus of the lower grades. The price is right too. But what I like first and fore most in all of the books that I have read through is the strong Christian content. I like that the 1-4 readers are Bible readers, some of the best that I have seen.

[ChrissySC]

R&S slowly increases the complexity or structure of the sentence through the grades. Each POS is addressed singularly in the beginning. The sentences are simple enough that the POS can be found easily. The progression of sentence depth, or complexity, becomes more challenging to identify the POS. The progression is something that I find is an asset.

 

Each lesson has a detailed explanation with examples presented. The 5W's and H are always explained. This will allow an older student to complete work independently. My dd10 completes much of the lessons in this way.

 

Each lesson has an oral exercise. If you feel that you need to be involved, you could complete the oral to reinforce the material. I will have dd look at the oral and use the TM to help determine the correct answer. One of the reasons I am so fond of this books is that you could complete the lesson orally, except for the diagramming and writing portions (which you could skip). It is not always necessary to complete each written exercise. You can judge the depth of understanding from the oral exercises.

 

Too, I think that it is great to have worksheets for review and reinforcement. The tests are there and ready for the end of each unit. Both of these make great additions to a portfolio. I like that I can 3-hole punch these and insert to demonstrate the depth of grammar covered for the year.

 

The tone of the writing is appropriately geared to the student as well.

 

I look at R&S as an excellent tool, a means to an end. If you want to have a great writer, they will need structured grammar

 

While not the most organized reasoning, I hope that helps some.

 

Edit: My dd10 enjoys the books. It was a difficult switch from ps style LA to R&S and the structure. She states that she likes being able to do actual work. She likes knowing the answer. She likes that she does it and gets it done. I think she feels a great deal of pride in finishing a lesson. Actually, to her it is easy and a fun activity in which she can succeed without me. Yes, I know. It is grammar, and that isn't supposed to be fun. I think it is the ease of which she can complete the lessons that make them enjoyable. There are not any complicated pictures or fonts or abastract directions - the book gets down to business.

Edited June 7, 2011 by ChrissySC

[SnMomof7]

We aren't textbook people, but I am enjoying R&S English 2. The lessons are short. We can do most of the work orally. I feel like we don't have gaps because it is VERY thorough. It is also incremental, and therefore, is a gentle approach to learning. I have 3 purchased already :)!