Where is Harold Camping now?

[elegantlion]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8139534

 

He raised $100MILLION with this campaign. Hundred million.

 

Also, the fact that he takes no salary could just be financial dancing. As evidenced by major corporations of late, we know that salaries are not the only way people are paid - they get bonuses, gifts, stock payouts, etc. Just because a man isn't getting a salary doesn't mean he's not benefiting financially from his employer.

 

:glare: :glare: :glare:

 

I am starting a new business. I have the power to ward off the impending zombie apocalypse. However, you must send me 19.95 now to protect your family. Even the CDC know about the upcoming attack. My tag line: Don't let your brains goes to waste. ....I take paypal. :tongue_smilie:;)

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/nomanknows/nomanknows.html

 

This has the scripture he uses to justify his May 21, 2011 date.

 

He is working from a Young Earth creation position as well since he lists a specific year for the creation.

 

And again - in case my position isn't clear, I didn't think he was credible. My reasons weren't Biblical though.

 

There was a joking part of me that was hoping he was right - it would mean I wouldn't have to clean house - I could just move next door. She's a way better housekeeper than I am :)

It's important to note that not all Young Earth Creationists would agree with his date of the Flood being 7000 years ago.

[MelanieM]

That's really funny because he forgets to address the one scripture that reeeeeally ousts him as a false prophet.

 

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Matthew 24:36

 

But does it say anything about the Father not telling someone, at some point? I mean, is it possible (according to this scripture everyone keeps quoting) that no one knows until God lets them know? Genuinely curious question (that I'm not really prepared to research for myself ;)).

[amey311]

It's important to note that not all Young Earth Creationists would agree with his date of the Flood being 7000 years ago.

 

Is it the SPECIFIC date that's the problem (that 4990 BC), or is he way off? For example, is it that some YEC will think it's more like 4500BC, or more like 2000BC?

 

One big name YEC says "around 4500" and couldn't find dates from another. The latter also won't name a particular year for the creation, so maybe he's being cautious :)

 

I ask sincerely. I hope my tone doesn't read as flippant. Even if I don't believe it, the YEC position is interesting to me, maybe because it's novel. I was raised Methodist, but it never occurred to me that the earth might not be billions of years old. I always thought of the creation story as allegory, I think. It makes me wonder if there were people in church with me who DID think the earth was only thousands of years old.

[amey311]

:glare: :glare: :glare:

 

I am starting a new business. I have the power to ward off the impending zombie apocalypse. However, you must send me 19.95 now to protect your family. Even the CDC know about the upcoming attack. My tag line: Don't let your brains goes to waste. ....I take paypal. :tongue_smilie:;)

 

There's money to be made in starting a religion (tax free money at that!). Just ask L.Ron Hubbard. :D

[MelanieM]

HOWEVER, if "no one knows the time, etc" and most Christians believe that yes, Jesus will come back, then why is it so ridiculous to think that yesterday couldn't have been the day?

 

I was discussing this very thing with my husband this morning. I thought that most people who found this whole thing bizarre felt that way because of the actual idea of rapture in general, not so much about the when. So I'm not sure why people who *do* believe in the rapture find this whole situation all that 'out there'. Isn't it as likely to be May 21 as any other day? It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me to think that people who truly believe this will happen can find their way around that one passage that says they won't know the exact time and believe someone when he says he has it figured out. I guess I don't see how that particular nugget becomes the one piece that makes this whole thing sound far-fetched.

 

I'm not intending offense here... I'm not a Christian and so these ideas of rapture, hell, etc. simply aren't relevant to how I view the world. I respect others' rights to believe whatever they want to believe.

[TheAutumnOak]

I hope he's somewhere with people who love him and won't make fun of him.

 

:iagree:

[Guest]

So, you take issue with the scripture he cites? Because I don't think it's fair to say that just because it says in one part of the Bible that "no one knows the time" then it means that's the firm statement. There are other contradictions in the Bible. The idea that one book might say "you'll never know - it's a secret!" and that another book (or books) might say "you can find out if you're very clever!" isn't completely strange.

 

No one takes issue with the scripture he cited. The problem is that he twisted scripture to mean what he wanted it to mean. Scripture does not say you can find out if you're very clever. The Bible does not contradict itself.

[LittleIzumi]

How do you all account for Tomas in the Bible calling Jesus "My Lord and My God"

 

And "the Word was God" in this-

 

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

 

There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’â€

 

(I quoted extra to include the part that makes it certain that "the Word" is Jesus)

 

We believe Jesus is a god in his own right, part of the "Godhead" (the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as completely unified in purpose, but not physically). Jesus created the earth and can be considered the father or god of the earth and all living on it. But He is separate from His Father (as in "and the Word was with God").

 

To quote one of our apostles (gotta use sources on this board :tongue_smilie:), "

Under the direction of the Father, Jesus bore the responsibility of Creator. His title was “the Word,†(see John 1:1; JST, John 1:16). In the Greek language of the New Testament, Word was Logos, or “expression.†It was another name for the Master. That terminology may seem strange, but it is appropriate. We use words to convey our expression to others. So Jesus was the Word, or expression, of His Father to the world.

The Gospel of John proclaims that Christ is the Creator of all things: “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made†(John 1:3; see also D&C 93:21)."

http://lds.org/liahona/2000/04/jesus-the-christ-our-master-and-more?lang=eng&query=word+god+jesus

[WishboneDawn]

Even so, the trinity is taught at 3 persons, one God. It doesn't take any effort on my part to wrap my head around that.

 

I finished a course last year where we spent a year, a year, attempting to wrap our heads around just that. The Church itself spent centuries on the issue.

 

I don't think it's so easily dealt with. :)

[Jennifer3141]

Not just you.

 

Or you! Although I'm late because I've been cleaning all day. :D

Opiate of the masses, indeed...

[Sputterduck]

I finished a course last year where we spent a year, a year, attempting to wrap our heads around just that. The Church itself spent centuries on the issue.

 

I don't think it's so easily dealt with. :)

 

I know people struggle with it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I think people get stuck with trying to fit God into our physical world.

[DianeW88]

The LDS view on the trinity.

 

http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=trinity

 

Video version, if you prefer:

 

http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&media=video

Edited May 22, 2011 by DianeW88
to provide another link

[Impish]

:glare: :glare: :glare:

 

I am starting a new business. I have the power to ward off the impending zombie apocalypse. However, you must send me 19.95 now to protect your family. Even the CDC know about the upcoming attack. My tag line: Don't let your brains goes to waste. ....I take paypal. :tongue_smilie:;)

:lol:

[kchara]

Wow. There's a lot of interesting discussion on this thread, but there's some just downright insults to Christians in general. Really? Is that necessary?

[Sputterduck]

Wow. There's a lot of interesting discussion on this thread, but there's some just downright insults to Christians in general. Really? Is that necessary?

 

What particularly bothered you? I thought it was going fairly well.

[amey311]

The Bible does not contradict itself.

 

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you."

 

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

 

~~~~

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

 

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."

[ereks mom]

Well, the Bible has a very clear verse on who gets to know the timing. And we are supposed to take the Bible over a regular man's writing/radio show. I think people were genuinely deceived, but that's what happens when you listen to man over the Bible. It's sad all around, but God does give us the tools to avoid falling into these things. It's our job to use them.

 

:iagree: with you 100%.

 

 

 

Me too. :iagree:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The reason I was willing as a Christian to dismiss him is because I don't think that this is something that you figure out with symbolic math manipulations. Plus his earlier episode of being wrong was pretty telling. There are charletons in every age.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Sebastian (a lady)

[amey311]

There are charlatans in every age.

 

:iagree:

[LauraGB]

I finished a course last year where we spent a year, a year, attempting to wrap our heads around just that. The Church itself spent centuries on the issue.

 

I don't think it's so easily dealt with. :)

 

It is if you were born and raised with it :001_smile:.

 

I think at the end of the day, no matter how many bible verses are quoted, the guy is one of two things; a completely ill fellow who desperately needs help, or an awesomely good con man who gets all the other on-the-fence (or weaker, if I may) people to give him their money and wait for death. So, he's either nuts himself, or taking advantage of those who just. need. something.

 

Makes me sad, from either perspective.

[Sputterduck]

It is if you were born and raised with it :001_smile:.

 

I think at the end of the day, no matter how many bible verses are quoted, the guy is one of two things; a completely ill fellow who desperately needs help, or an awesomely good con man who gets all the other on-the-fence (or weaker, if I may) people to give him their money and wait for death. So, he's either nuts himself, or taking advantage of those who just. need. something.

 

Makes me sad, from either perspective.

 

Well, they weren't waiting for death, they were waiting for rapture. I was kinda hoping they were right because it sounds awesome. :tongue_smilie:

[Lady Florida.]

but then again the second coming and organized religion is a contrived idea to control people...but that's just me.

 

No. Not just you.

[nmoira]

No. Not just you.[/QUOTe]Nor you.

[amey311]

It is if you were born and raised with it :001_smile:.

 

I think at the end of the day, no matter how many bible verses are quoted, the guy is one of two things; a completely ill fellow who desperately needs help, or an awesomely good con man who gets all the other on-the-fence (or weaker, if I may) people to give him their money and wait for death. So, he's either nuts himself, or taking advantage of those who just. need. something.

 

Makes me sad, from either perspective.

 

OR, he was an incredibly faithful man who really believed he was interpreting scripture correctly and thought that he had gotten it right this time.

 

Thinking semi-scientifically about this, he got the date wrong before. So, he spent time checking his methodology, doing further research and came to a new hypothesis, or something. He took the results he has the last time and thought he'd get it right this time.

 

I know there have been others who believed VERY strongly that end times were near. You can argue they were bonkers, but I'm sure some of them believed completely that they had seen the signs and their God was coming (or they were going).

[kchara]

What particularly bothered you? I thought it was going fairly well.

 

Comments like religion being the opiate of the masses, the Second Coming and organized religion being used to control the masses... they have nothing to do with Harold Camping, where he is, or whether or not he was right or wrong. And, frankly, they're insulting. I make a point not to insult the differences I have with other religions, especially on a board such as this one. It's unnecessary and doesn't add to the discussion.

[Rivka]

The website was down for most of the day. It's up again now, and you really have to hunt for any references to Judgment Day. Can he possibly think that he can spin this like it never happened?

[LauraGB]

OR, he was an incredibly faithful man who really believed he was interpreting scripture correctly and thought that he had gotten it right this time.

 

Thinking semi-scientifically about this, he got the date wrong before. So, he spent time checking his methodology, doing further research and came to a new hypothesis, or something. He took the results he has the last time and thought he'd get it right this time.

 

I know there have been others who believed VERY strongly that end times were near. You can argue they were bonkers, but I'm sure some of them believed completely that they had seen the signs and their God was coming (or they were going).

 

I would really like to think this, because it's a genuinely good, sweet thought, but I just don't buy it. Even if he was super faithful and thought for sure he nailed it this time, what would drive someone, considering, to spend oodles and take in oodles to "share" that info with everyone? And, because it is The Rapture and all, wouldn't people's fate already be determined, so what would it matter the date?

 

I like how you think - it sounds like you see the good where you can. But, I think I'm too jaded or skeptical or something...

 

I do wonder what happened to him, though.

[amey311]

The website was down for most of the day. It's up again now, and you really have to hunt for any references to Judgment Day. Can he possibly think that he can spin this like it never happened?

 

I don't think so. There was a quote from his daughter on Saturday (after 6pm) saying he was still waiting.

 

I wonder if it will be a matter of him going back and rereading, praying, etc and wondering if he figured wrong, or if his god is angry at him somehow and therefore didn't rapture him (is that the verb?). Or if his god is giving him more time to convince people to get their lives in order so they will be ready at a later date or what.

 

that seems to be what happens when someone has laid claim to a specific date and the earth keeps turning.

[kitten18]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8139534

 

He raised $100MILLION with this campaign. Hundred million.

 

Also, the fact that he takes no salary could just be financial dancing. As evidenced by major corporations of late, we know that salaries are not the only way people are paid - they get bonuses, gifts, stock payouts, etc. Just because a man isn't getting a salary doesn't mean he's not benefiting financially from his employer.

:iagree:

 

There's money to be made in starting a religion (tax free money at that!). Just ask L.Ron Hubbard. :D

and :iagree:

[Joy at Home]

Comments like religion being the opiate of the masses, the Second Coming and organized religion being used to control the masses... they have nothing to do with Harold Camping, where he is, or whether or not he was right or wrong. And, frankly, they're insulting. I make a point not to insult the differences I have with other religions, especially on a board such as this one. It's unnecessary and doesn't add to the discussion.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Joy at Home]

For me, if the people were seriously following him and truly led to believe that yesterday was "the day", then the last of our worries should be the aftermath because there is something very wrong with these people to begin with. No sane person jumps on that band wagon, but then again the second coming and organized religion is a contrived idea to control people...but that's just me.

 

Whoah Nellie. Let us not use this instance as a springboard for this kind of talk. Because someone twists scripture and got countless to believe him does not mean it's suddenly okay for you to call my faith contrived and insult me for believing it.

 

To all the atheists, agnostics, pagan, witches, and countless others here, i go out of my way to be respectful of beliefs i don't agree with. Do likewise, please.

 

Lisa

[Mama2Many4]

Whoah Nellie. Let us not use this instance as a springboard for this kind of talk. Because someone twists scripture and got countless to believe him does not mean it's suddenly okay for you to call my faith contrived and insult me for believing it.

 

To all the atheists, agnostics, pagan, witches, and countless others here, i go out of my way to be respectful of beliefs i don't agree with. Do likewise, please.

 

Lisa

 

:hurray: :cheers2: :thumbup1:

 

Amen sister!

[Sputterduck]

Comments like religion being the opiate of the masses, the Second Coming and organized religion being used to control the masses... they have nothing to do with Harold Camping, where he is, or whether or not he was right or wrong. And, frankly, they're insulting. I make a point not to insult the differences I have with other religions, especially on a board such as this one. It's unnecessary and doesn't add to the discussion.

 

Okay. I understand. I guess because my internet home used to be a debate board, those just slid right off my back. I'm used to much worse attitudes. You are right. Those comments are fairly insulting.

[Sputterduck]

I would really like to think this, because it's a genuinely good, sweet thought, but I just don't buy it. Even if he was super faithful and thought for sure he nailed it this time, what would drive someone, considering, to spend oodles and take in oodles to "share" that info with everyone? And, because it is The Rapture and all, wouldn't people's fate already be determined, so what would it matter the date?

 

I like how you think - it sounds like you see the good where you can. But, I think I'm too jaded or skeptical or something...

 

I do wonder what happened to him, though.

 

Well, the Bible does tell us that we need to tell others. And no, fates aren't sealed. If a person were to accept Christ a second before the end, they'd be fine, hence the need to tell people.

[amey311]

I would really like to think this, because it's a genuinely good, sweet thought, but I just don't buy it. Even if he was super faithful and thought for sure he nailed it this time, what would drive someone, considering, to spend oodles and take in oodles to "share" that info with everyone? And, because it is The Rapture and all, wouldn't people's fate already be determined, so what would it matter the date?

 

I like how you think - it sounds like you see the good where you can. But, I think I'm too jaded or skeptical or something...

 

I'm sort of playing devil's advocate (ha!) since I'm pretty cynical, especially where religion is involved. I half wondered (and others have as well) if Camping was an example of Poe's Law.

 

Mostly I was trying to show how sort of illogical it is to say that THIS guy is nuts. What makes his beliefs any more irrational than anyone else's.

 

As for why he'd take in money and spend time advertising and spreading the word? That seems pretty obvious to me. He believes he's correct and that in order to get to heaven you need to follow his guidelines. I've seen people post here about how they feel obligated to witness to others because they believe that the story of their god needs to be spread far and wide. I've heard CHristians talk about how worried they are for the immortal soul of friends/family members who don't believe as they do. How will everyone be together and happy in heaven if these Christians can't get others to think as they do?

[LauraGB]

Well, the Bible does tell us that we need to tell others. And no, fates aren't sealed. If a person were to accept Christ a second before the end, they'd be fine, hence the need to tell people.

I understand. But this guy (and others like him) make it just that much more difficult for those people who are doing it because their hearts take them there.

 

As I understand the rapture, either people believe and/or repent or they don't. For real, in their hearts - not with the threat of the rapture days away. Possibly he sincerely thought by collecting millions of dollars he could achieve such a thing, but, in the end, I don't know anyone who has left :). But I do know many lovely missionaries who are sincere and dedicated and have done wonderful things. I don't see this guy having done "wonderful" things.

[twoxcell]

The site looks exactly the same as it did before and cleary says Judgement Day May 21st. http://www.familyradio.com/index2.html

[Guest]

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you."

 

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

 

~~~~

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

 

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."

 

To answer the first one directly:

 

http://apologeticspress.ws/articles/534

 

The second one:

 

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/do-sons-bear-sins-fathers-or-not

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/parents-sin.html

 

 

A lot of people claim that the Bible contradicts itself, but it doesn't. Those who say that do not understand what is being said. You can't take two verses out of context (and with no theological perspective) and say they contradict each other. It's not Jesus or the Bible that is the problem, it's incorrect interpretations/lack of understanding/lack of context, among other things.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James Version)

 

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Here is a really good parable to explain this:

 

The Parable of the Sower

 

1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

 

The Purpose of Parables

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

 

 

‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,

And seeing you will see and not perceive;

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.

Their ears are hard of hearing,

And their eyes they have closed,

Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should[a]heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

 

The Parable of the Sower Explained

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

 

 

I'm not here to convince you to believe what you don't want to. I just don't think you should try to sway other people (if that is what you are trying to do) without really comprehending the subject matter you are speaking against. If you are just confused, then of course it's fine to ask.

 

HTH! :)

Edited May 23, 2011 by Jinnah

[WishboneDawn]

I know people struggle with it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I think people get stuck with trying to fit God into our physical world.

 

No, it's not that. You said three different persons but one God. That's how you get around Jesus not knowing the date. The implication then is that God is NOT all-knowing or all-powerful because there's a piece of infomation a part of him does not have access to.

 

That's where the headaches begin. How to balance the idea of a trinity without limiting our idea of God. It's subtle stuff.

[WishboneDawn]

The LDS view on the trinity.

 

http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=trinity

 

Video version, if you prefer:

 

http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&media=video

 

That would solve the headaches. :)

[Night Elf]

I hope he's somewhere with people who love him and won't make fun of him.

 

Fair enough. But I hope he's praying like crazy for God to give him the wisdom and courage to make an appearance and try to make this right. We don't know how many families took his word as a religious leader who really did have some inside scoop on God's plans.

 

An interesting debate question is 'Should he and his organization be responsible for helping families get back on their feet?' I'm talking about the many families who made drastic changes in preparation for the rapture. Finances are a big problem for many people. Imagine someone who gave away their entire life savings, or quit their job, or sold their house, etc. because they really thought they were going to be gone? Who is going to help them regain what they lost, or at least have help starting over?

 

Than again, I have no clue as to the numbers of people who made such changes. Did "most" or "some" of his followers get rid of everything to prove their faith that they would be raptured? Was it a suggestion of Campings? I didn't follow this whole thing too closely so I really don't know. But my heart hurts for people who got hurt because of this.

[Classical Country Mama]

FYI.

 

Camping to speak May 23

[TXMomof4]

Comments like religion being the opiate of the masses, the Second Coming and organized religion being used to control the masses... they have nothing to do with Harold Camping, where he is, or whether or not he was right or wrong. And, frankly, they're insulting. I make a point not to insult the differences I have with other religions, especially on a board such as this one. It's unnecessary and doesn't add to the discussion.

 

 

:iagree: I hate to be equated with an unenlightened herd because I'm a Christian. Irks me to no end.

[Guest]

Comments like religion being the opiate of the masses, the Second Coming and organized religion being used to control the masses... they have nothing to do with Harold Camping, where he is, or whether or not he was right or wrong. And, frankly, they're insulting. I make a point not to insult the differences I have with other religions, especially on a board such as this one. It's unnecessary and doesn't add to the discussion.

 

 

:iagree: This (along with insinuating that Christians are stupid/uneducated) is a recurring thing on this board (and many others), and it is completely unnecessary, although expected.

 

Do not worry:

 

Matthew 5:10-12 (New King James Version)

 

10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,

For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

 

John 15:18-20 (New King James Version)

 

The World’s Hatred

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

 

:grouphug:

[nmoira]

:iagree: This (along with insinuating that Christians are stupid/uneducated) is a recurring thing on this board (and many others), and it is completely unnecessary, although expected.

 

Do not worry:

 

Matthew 5:10-12 (New King James Version)

 

10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,

For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

 

John 15:18-20 (New King James Version)

 

The World’s Hatred

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

 

:grouphug:

Hate? Persecution? I must have missed those posts.

[Kathleen in VA]

What I don't understand is why this whole thing (the prediction as well as its failure) is news. The article about HC speaking on 5/23 mentions that "hundreds of his followers" etc. Hundreds? They've got to be kidding! Hundreds of people think the earth is coming to an end and that's news? Wow - that's just amazingly ridiculous. Don't you suppose that at any given time on the face of the earth there are hundreds of people here, there and everywhere who believe things most everyone else thinks are improbable? Why isn't all that stuff news? The real issue, imo, is why the mainstream media thought this was newsworthy.

 

OK, fire away. :tongue_smilie:

[nmoira]

The real issue, imo, is why the mainstream media thought this was newsworthy.

:iagree:

At least with respect to the degree of coverage and, well, the exuberance. But people obviously bought it (as opposed to bought into it) or they would not have continued.

[Sputterduck]

No, it's not that. You said three different persons but one God. That's how you get around Jesus not knowing the date. The implication then is that God is NOT all-knowing or all-powerful because there's a piece of infomation a part of him does not have access to.

 

That's where the headaches begin. How to balance the idea of a trinity without limiting our idea of God. It's subtle stuff.

 

Nobody said that the son is all knowing. Clearly He isn't and no one claims it. That says nothing about the father. My heart, although incredibly important isn't capable of the things that my brain is. My brain does math. Just because my heart can't doesn't mean that I as a whole am incapable of math.

[Abecedarianmama]

I wondered the same thing.