s/o, how adults read

[Penelope]

This is a s/o from this thread: http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269329 in particular ChandlerMom's comments. Hope you don't mind, ChandlerMom, I have read this over and over on homeschooling boards so I am not picking on you. :)

 

Do you think it is true that adults skim ahead, look for the shapes of words and read based on context?

 

I have read and heard people say this many times, and I don't believe this is true, because I don't read this way! Or maybe it is true for some people, but I don't believe it is the most efficient way to read for meaning. I read very quickly, but I do not guess words based on context or sometimes skip or miss words. I do not skip over words, my mind processes the ands and thes. I do not scan several lines ahead unless I am just skimming quickly or speed reading something on the net, where I don't care about digesting every sentence (but I don't think children should be reading their school books that way, just as I don't read something I actually want to think about and understand, that way).

 

If you do think you read this way, or guess words, or sometimes say the wrong word or skip words if you are reading aloud, how did you learn to read? I am wondering if the people that believe all proficient readers do these things, were taught via whole word methods.

 

It could be that I am not understanding something about what is being said with this argument, but I have read it enough times and every time it just doesn't connect with me at all. I seem to remember ElizabethB posting a study once that showed efficient readers actually do process each letter/phonogram left to right, it is just that our brains do it so fast that we THINK we are recognizing the whole word.

[boscopup]

I definitely process words via phonics. It is blazing fast, so it's not like I'm sounding words out like a new reader, but each word is read using phonics knowledge, for the most part.

 

I am NOT a fast reader though. If I skim a page (probably using a sight word approach), I will have no clue what I just read.

 

My DH was taught to read via whole words. He can read very quickly with understanding, but he can't spell, and he wouldn't notice an error like "Dog is man's best fiend." I'm an excellent speller (don't let my swype errors fool you :lol:). I spell using phonics and some memorization. I never learned some of the rules my son is learning (like when to use c vs k).

[mytwomonkeys]

i've been reading for so long now that i read words wholly. i don't sound them out, i just know the words automatically. i can skim something very quickly & get the gist of what is being said without needing to read every word on a page. even if i am reading for pleasure and soaking it in, i don't look at words as parts, but as whole. something interesting... you can take any word & as long as the first and last letter are where they should be (all other letters can be in the wrong place), and most adults can read it without difficulty. so based on that, i say most adults are whole word readers.

[mytwomonkeys]

just for fun....:D

 

 

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

[Just Robyn]

just for fun....:D

 

 

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

 

Right. This is what comes to mind.

 

With new words I use phonics, otherwise no.

[nmoira]

I seem to remember ElizabethB posting a study once that showed efficient readers actually do process each letter/phonogram left to right, it is just that our brains do it so fast that we THINK we are recognizing the whole word.

I was particularly intrigued by this, but have yet to find a study which supports it.

[boscopup]

AFAIK, the truthfulness of that has yet to be determined. I read via phonics, but yes I can tell what that paragraph says. I don't read it in the same way that I read regular words. My mind quickly figures out what the letter order should be.

 

I've never heard of anyone that couldn't read that. I don't think it's proof that every adult reads via whole words.

[mytwomonkeys]

AFAIK, the truthfulness of that has yet to be determined. I read via phonics, but yes I can tell what that paragraph says. I don't read it in the same way that I read regular words. My mind quickly figures out what the letter order should be.

 

I've never heard of anyone that couldn't read that. I don't think it's proof that every adult reads via whole words.

 

oh, i didn't mean to imply "proof"... it was really just for fun. i find it fascinating that i could read it, and it was truly effortless. i find it even more fascinating that my 3rd grader could as well, also easily. if you read via phonics, i certainly believe you and do not doubt we all interpret language differently. my opinion is that most adults probably read whole words unless they are new words that require sounding out. that doesn't make me correct by any means, just my opinion. i've never looked at the cambridge study or any other study for that matter. i've never put much thought into it honestly until reading this thread:) fwiw - i teach my kids to read via phonics.

[joysworld]

I do not read every single word on a page. My mind goes too fast to read every single word.

[RoundAbout]

I know that I process words wholly. If I'm reading quickly I will mistake words like house-horse or friend-fiend. I have to go back and check when the word doesn't make sense in context. I definitely use phonics for new or bigger words.

[Greta]

Do you think it is true that adults skim ahead, look for the shapes of words and read based on context?

 

All I can tell you is that I certainly don't. I am not good at skimming - I can't discern meaning that way. I am not a fast reader. I am a phonetic reader. I hear the text as I read, every word of it, though faster than anyone would say it in real life. When I encounter a word I don't know, I decipher the sound (or at least an approximation of it) and either infer from context or look it up if I'm really stumped. I am a good speller (not going to win any awards, mind you, but good), and I was taught phonics growing up.

 

My husband on the other hand is a speed reader. He doesn't hear the words in his head, he somehow goes straight from the visual to the meaning, skipping the sound. I don't know how he does it - I can't imagine it! But he can't imagine the way that I read! :confused: He was taught whole language rather than phonics, and with his exceptionally high IQ, it actually worked (I'm not convinced that it works well for the average person, though). He is a poor speller. And he has come up with some very . . . interesting pronunciations for words he was unfamiliar with, such as unusual proper names. :lol: Sometimes the only semblance to the original word was the first letter. So clearly he is just guessing rather than using any phonetic rules.

 

Well, I'm not sure how well that answered your question. But that's my limited experience. I don't skim. I don't know how. Truly.

[susankenny]

I am a whole word reader. I would assume most adults read whole word. I remember at university in a sociology class, we had to count how many times the word "the" was used in a particular sentence (or another similar simple word, I'm going from memory here), and do you know most of the class miscounted the word! My professor said it is because we tend to skip words (especially smaller words) and don't even realize we do it when reading! Of course there are exceptions, but I imagine most adults read whole words, even if they learned to read via phonics (which I did).

 

Susan

[joyfulhomeschooler]

This is a s/o from this thread: http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269329 in particular ChandlerMom's comments. Hope you don't mind, ChandlerMom, I have read this over and over on homeschooling boards so I am not picking on you. :)

 

Do you think it is true that adults skim ahead, look for the shapes of words and read based on context?

 

I have read and heard people say this many times, and I don't believe this is true, because I don't read this way! Or maybe it is true for some people, but I don't believe it is the most efficient way to read for meaning. I read very quickly, but I do not guess words based on context or sometimes skip or miss words. I do not skip over words, my mind processes the ands and thes. I do not scan several lines ahead unless I am just skimming quickly or speed reading something on the net, where I don't care about digesting every sentence (but I don't think children should be reading their school books that way, just as I don't read something I actually want to think about and understand, that way).

 

If you do think you read this way, or guess words, or sometimes say the wrong word or skip words if you are reading aloud, how did you learn to read? I am wondering if the people that believe all proficient readers do these things, were taught via whole word methods.

 

It could be that I am not understanding something about what is being said with this argument, but I have read it enough times and every time it just doesn't connect with me at all. I seem to remember ElizabethB posting a study once that showed efficient readers actually do process each letter/phonogram left to right, it is just that our brains do it so fast that we THINK we are recognizing the whole word.

 

I don't believe she was saying this AT ALL in her post on the thread you linked. I think she was saying it is normal and that you just have to slow them down.

That is what I got from it anyways.

[Spy Car]

just for fun....:D

 

 

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

 

Could read it with barely a blip. The faster the better in fact.

 

Bill

[joyfulhomeschooler]

just for fun....:D

 

 

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

 

Yup, totally amazing lol

[ChandlerMom]

I think this is an interesting topic because, well, I just love learning how we learn. :D

 

I prolly should have stated that I don't think we all read exactly the same way. Different brains will optimize reading in different ways. But I do see the type of errors the OP described as indicative that thier particular child may be starting to read more "holistically" and making th ecommon (and transient) errors associated with that.

 

The second thing to keep in mind is that generally we don't know what we're doing or how we learn. It wasn't until I started learning my 3rd language that I understood how my brain processes language. For me that was the absolute BEST part of learning a new language as an adult! I felt deliciously devious as I racked up A's while younger students with more innate gift for language and working 10x harder and do half as well. I SUCK at learning language, but I excel at learning how I learn. Kind of an old age and tretchery thing. :lol:

 

Soooo, back to reading. I wasn't suggesting we *consciously* scan multiple lines, just that we subconsciously do. We may only be aware of one word at a time, but by the time our eyes focus on it, our brain has already begun decoding it. Some folks will do this more than others, but our brain is inherently a high order multi-processor and the ONE thing we do exceedingly poorly is truly focus on ONE thing. :p

 

I became aware of this from two things:

(1) hearing how popular "speed reading" courses often work by teaching folks to consciously do this (reading multiple words simultaneously), and

(2) migraines. I get migraines and when I do I cannot process visual information (at least reading and determining size of things). The letters tend to run around the page. :D Anyway, one day, while taking a final exam in a grad course when I lived the nightmare of turning over the exam only to discover I couldn't read a single word, I got the "opportunity" to explore the optics of reading. At least MY reading. I figured out that I could isolate each word and then "read" it by it's shape and length and print density, even though I couldn't see the letters. I assumed the ID part wasn't working, but the other parts that are involved in reading were still working (like how I can't tell the size of a car in front of me, but can still estimate the distance form me and speed accurately -- and no, I don't drive when I can't process what I am seeing).

 

So, I still managed to ace the class, and when I didn't have a headache I started paying attention to HOW I read. As you read this RIGHT NOW close your eyes. Can you still "See" the paragraph in your mind? Do you have a sense for the length and shape? That's all part of the pre-reading I believe we do automatically. Your brian is processing that image making you more prepared to read it.

 

As to how I learned to read (and my kids, who may just be weird like me): same as most kids. I read phonetically. Build words up. But most words I've read before, so I use a mix of word reading and phonics. Maybe I'm using phonics to double-check what I've already pre-read?

 

Again,I don't think it's much different from other skills. THink about learning to drive: you start by looking at the end of the hood. You have to push yourself to look 100' past your car. They *tell* you to "scan" side to side and forward to hood. But if you asked me know, I'd say "no, I don't scan" because I don't think about it. However, I'm sure I do, because my perceived "depth and field of view" is much greater than when I was learning at 15. :D When we learn to read, we only see one letter at a time, then we start scanning ahead in the word, looking for di/tri-graphs and silent E's and common groups like ING and TION. I just think eventually we start scanning the whole central field of view, without even being aware.

 

Only claim to be an expert on me, and that's just 'cause I have no competition! :D

Edited April 30, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[MeaganS]

I read at an average rate, and when I read aloud I often skip words or say the wrong word, so I guess I read by context and shapes, I don't really know. I think if I practiced reading aloud, I would do better, though. I have no idea how I learned to read as I don't remember not knowing how to read. I do remember being the first in my class to be able to read a list of words on the wall, and in retrospect I think they were sight words. I also vaguely remember my mom drilling me on words, so probably I learned by sight with some phonics as well. I was also a HUGE reader as a kid and always had a book with me.

 

Oh, I don't read ahead usually, unless it's a bunch of description of scenery or something like that. I sometimes have to go back because I subconsciously didn't read something important that didn't seem important at first glance.

Edited April 30, 2011 by MeaganS

[Wheres Toto]

I definitely process words wholly unless its a completely new word. I do read every word and do not scan ahead. I read very fast so don't really feel the need to rush it. If I'm reading something I HAVE to read, for school or to gather bits of information, and I'm not really interested in it otherwise, I will scan for important bits and go quickly over the rest. I did take a speed-reading course as an adult but I don't use those methods when I'm reading for pleasure.

 

It's not something I would encourage in my kids until they are proficient readers and probably high school or college level. Being able to speed-read/scan can be a useful skill in high level courses but I wouldn't want to encourage it as a general practice.

Edited April 30, 2011 by dottieanna29

[Penelope]

just for fun....:D

 

 

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

 

I know you posted for fun, but I remember back a few years when this was making the email forward rounds, and there is no research to back this up.

 

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html

In a way this is a cheap magician's trick, because the only reason people can read the scrambled words is because they aren't very scrambled. Fixing the first and last letters means 2 and 3 letter words don't change at all, and 4 letter words just swap the middle letters. That's the bulk of our vocabulary. Try making a sentence with very long words, and our ability to read words "as a whole" mysteriously vanishes. To wit:

 

Bblaaesl pryleas pnmrrioefg sllaimy aeoulltsby dvrseee clbrpmaaoe tteenmrat.

[susankenny]

I know you posted for fun, but I remember back a few years when this was making the email forward rounds, and there is no research to back this up.

 

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html

 

Even if the study isn't real - who cares. She said she wasn't trying to prove a point with it and that it wasn't a study she looked into.

 

Could you read it? I sure could. Quickly & easily. That in and of itself is amazing to me.

 

I definitely read whole words & do not process every.single.word (unless reading aloud, obviously we read differently aloud than to ourselves).

 

 

Susan

Edited April 30, 2011 by susankenny

[creativish]

I read at an average rate, and when I read aloud I often skip words or say the wrong word, so I guess I read by context and shapes, I don't really know. I think if I practiced reading aloud, I would do better, though. I have no idea how I learned to read as I don't remember not knowing how to read. I do remember being the first in my class to be able to read a list of words on the wall, and in retrospect I think they were sight words. I also vaguely remember my mom drilling me on words, so probably I learned by sight with some phonics as well. I was also a HUGE reader as a kid and always had a book with me.

 

Oh, I don't read ahead usually, unless it's a bunch of description of scenery or something like that. I sometimes have to go back because I subconsciously didn't read something important that didn't seem important at first glance.

 

 

I make plenty of errors reading aloud too, I think my brain starts to recite commonalities-- like if I read "once upon" I'm sure my mouth would want to continue with "a time" even if it wasn't written. Probably a sign of a lazy brain heh:tongue_smilie:

 

I know you posted for fun, but I remember back a few years when this was making the email forward rounds, and there is no research to back this up.

 

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html

 

Hmm nice to know the truth. (this hoax always reminds me of that French Connection UK brand:lol:)

Now with those larger words, what happens if the phonemes were still together but scrambled?

[boscopup]

GretaLynne, you described it better than I did. You and I read exactly the same, and our husbands do too. How cool! I also basically read aloud in my head, but faster than you'd actually read it out loud. Glad I'm not the only one here that reads like this. :D

[Penelope]

Even if the study isn't real - who cares. She said she wasn't trying to prove a point with it and that it wasn't a study she looked into.

 

Could you read it? I sure could. Quickly & easily. That in and if itself is amazing to me.

 

I understood. ;)

 

I think it is fun, too. I was just saying that it is a trick, due to the way the letters were scrambled and all the many short words giving context. It may be with that example that we are simply unscrambling the words quickly in our brains rather than reading by shape.

 

I don't know if there is research to say for sure one way or the other. That's what I was wondering about, actually. I don't know how one would know for sure, even with brain imaging, because the processing happens so quickly. And is the truth that some of us process one way, and some another? Or that everyone essentially processes the same way, but some (maybe myself included) perceive it differently?

 

Oh, and I do not read differently out loud than I do to myself. At all. I hear the words in my head, every word, as I read them. Interesting.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Penelope

[Penelope]

GretaLynne, you described it better than I did. You and I read exactly the same, and our husbands do too. How cool! I also basically read aloud in my head, but faster than you'd actually read it out loud. Glad I'm not the only one here that reads like this. :D

 

Me, too. And same with the DH.

[Penelope]

I am a whole word reader. I would assume most adults read whole word. I remember at university in a sociology class, we had to count how many times the word "the" was used in a particular sentence (or another similar simple word, I'm going from memory here), and do you know most of the class miscounted the word! My professor said it is because we tend to skip words (especially smaller words) and don't even realize we do it when reading! Of course there are exceptions, but I imagine most adults read whole words, even if they learned to read via phonics (which I did).

 

Susan

 

That's interesting, I remember taking a quiz like that. Can't remember if I got them all or not.

[mytwomonkeys]

I know you posted for fun, but I remember back a few years when this was making the email forward rounds, and there is no research to back this up.

 

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html

 

i really just meant it to be for fun. i should have researched it before sharing it, i'm sorry. i just thought it was a trip! like i said previously, this isn't something i've ever attempted to research & it isn't something i've put a lot of thought into prior to this thread. i don't care too much either way, and i use phonics to teach my own kids. my opinion is that most adults process words wholly because i imagine we read the same words over & over & over (isn't there only like 1,000 or so words that make up the bulk of our written language??), & they get burned into our minds as "words" (images) and not multiple letters. anyway...it's just my opinion and not a conclusion that was formed over research or data, lol. i've not thought about this until today. :)

[Daisy]

It really depends on what I am reading. When I'm reading something that is challenging (Middle English, archaic translations, etc.), I slow down and tend to read every word very carefully. I actually enjoy books that force me to slow down. Maybe that is why I like old theology books. LOL.

 

Most books are simple enough that I almost see the entire page in one moment. I read more than 800wpm. I also tend to remember the page as a page in my head. In other words I can tell you that the sentence I'm looking for is about 2/3rds of the way down the page and in the 2nd paragraph.

 

I have major problems when I read aloud because I've read the entire page in my head but I'm half a page back with my mouth. My son does the same thing. LOL. Doing voices helps slow me down.

 

I imagine that means I'm using whole word, although I was taught phonics in private school.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Daisy

[creativish]

I am a whole word reader. I would assume most adults read whole word. I remember at university in a sociology class, we had to count how many times the word "the" was used in a particular sentence (or another similar simple word, I'm going from memory here), and do you know most of the class miscounted the word! My professor said it is because we tend to skip words (especially smaller words) and don't even realize we do it when reading! Of course there are exceptions, but I imagine most adults read whole words, even if they learned to read via phonics (which I did).

 

Susan

 

Isn't there also a paragraph that you count the frequency of the letter "F"...

 

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-

SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-

IC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE

EXPERIENCE OF YEARS...

[kiana]

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

 

I know this is supposed to be readable just as fast, but it takes me approximately 3x as long to read a paragraph scrambled this way.

 

I read faster than anyone I know. (Not trying to brag, just being honest.) I am definitely processing whole sentences if not paragraphs together -- but I still notice grammar and spelling errors. It just looks wrong and I find it jarring -- it slows down my reading.

 

I was originally taught to read with sight words (the old Ladybird series with Peter and Jane) but learned phonetic spelling after I was already reading.

[TKDmom]

Do you think it is true that adults skim ahead, look for the shapes of words and read based on context?

 

<snipped>

 

If you do think you read this way, or guess words, or sometimes say the wrong word or skip words if you are reading aloud, how did you learn to read? I am wondering if the people that believe all proficient readers do these things, were taught via whole word methods.

 

It could be that I am not understanding something about what is being said with this argument, but I have read it enough times and every time it just doesn't connect with me at all. I seem to remember ElizabethB posting a study once that showed efficient readers actually do process each letter/phonogram left to right, it is just that our brains do it so fast that we THINK we are recognizing the whole word.

 

I read very quickly. I don't know if I read whole words or not, but when I am very interested in a storyline, I've found that I miss details. I can come back a second time and pick up on those details because I'm not rushing through to find out what happens. When I read a book out loud to my dc, I get even more out of it because I cannot skip words.

 

Oddly enough, I've noticed that I do read ahead while I am reading out loud. My eyes are usually several words ahead of where my voice is. If I'm especially interested in the story, I will get too far ahead of myself. Once I'm more than three lines ahead of myself I get lost and I have to stop reading and figure out where I was.

 

Whether or not I read phonetically on a regular basis, I think that phonics are essential for learning how to read or for handling new, unfamiliar words.

Edited April 30, 2011 by bonniebeth4

[nmoira]

I know you posted for fun, but I remember back a few years when this was making the email forward rounds, and there is no research to back this up.

 

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html

Back what up exactly? It depends in what conclusion you're trying to draw from it. That something is going on is obvious, as we can indeed read the sample text. FWIW, I don't think (natural) sight readers process whole large words, but rather see chunks. I also suspect that most phonetic readers work up to seeing chunks. Once reading is more automatic and is at speed, other parts of the brain kick in and educated guesses are made based on context, phonetic and other cues. This is different than the guesses of beginning readers, something I would certainly not encourage.

[Penelope]

i really just meant it to be for fun. i should have researched it before sharing it,

 

:sad: We have to research before we post?

 

Then I guess this will have to be my very last post here, ever. :D :tongue_smilie:

 

I think it is so cool that that works. I just found this: http://jtnimoy.net/itp/cambscramb/ and tried two different sentences, and they worked. I just want to know what is happening, why it works. And threads like this are what happens when you are sick and hanging out at TWTM boards too much in one day.

[susankenny]

Oh, and I do not read differently out loud than I do to myself. At all. I hear the words in my head, every word, as I read them. Interesting.

 

Now this I find fascinating! When I read outloud, I pause for commas, I read slower, and I have a lot of emotion in my voice (I will even take on the character when reading to my kids - making my voice deeper, wiser, childish, afraid, etc). When I read to myself, I definitely don't do that. Depending on what it is, I will either skim it to get the main point of what I'm reading or I'll slow down to soak it up (i.e. I read recipes much differently than the Bible, etc).

 

Susan

[Penelope]

Maybe I misunderstood what you said or misspoke. I do slow down, a lot, when I read aloud. And no, the character voices that I make for the dc's stories in our readalouds, are not in my head when I read to myself. I just meant that, most of the time, the words are in my head as I read. I notice each word and it is going along in my head like a narrative, albeit without the pauses and with less expression.

 

There are some things I do skim. Magazines, most things on the net (but I think there has been research that the way we read on the net is different than the way we read books, anyhow), recipes for sure. But I call that skimming because I am only processing on a superficial level and only some of the information. I don't call that reading, though I guess it IS a form of reading.

[JennyD]

, I don't think (natural) sight readers process whole large words, but rather see chunks. I also suspect that most phonetic readers work up to seeing chunks. Once reading is more automatic and is at speed, other parts of the brain kick in and educated guesses are made based on context, phonetic and other cues.

 

That would be my (uneducated) guess as well.

[nmoira]

But I call that skimming because I am only processing on a superficial level and only some of the information. I don't call that reading, though I guess it IS a form of reading.

Well, there's skimming and there's accomplished skimming. My eldest (not I!) can skim a new plot-driven novel of 600 pages in less than hour and tell you every plot point afterwards. Then, with the suspense diffused, read it again at a more leisurely pace (for her) to soak up the little details and enjoy the language (if it's a "good" book.

 

ETA: There are books she says should not be skimmed this way, and the occasional book that cannot be skimmed this way.

Edited April 30, 2011 by nmoira

[Greta]

GretaLynne, you described it better than I did. You and I read exactly the same, and our husbands do too. How cool! I also basically read aloud in my head, but faster than you'd actually read it out loud. Glad I'm not the only one here that reads like this. :D

 

Yes, I saw your post after I wrote mine, and thought "wow, I could have written that!" :001_smile:

 

Okay, now I have a question for you, since you and I read the same way. What was your experience reading that paragraph where all but the first and last letter were a jumble? Everyone is saying it was such a snap for them, so I'm feeling a little :blushing: that it wasn't that easy for me. I could read it, yes! But not as easily as I read properly spelled text! It took a little effort, and a few words really tripped me up. Am I the only one??? :confused:

[susankenny]

Maybe I misunderstood what you said or misspoke. I do slow down, a lot, when I read aloud. And no, the character voices that I make for the dc's stories in our readalouds, are not in my head when I read to myself. I just meant that, most of the time, the words are in my head as I read. I notice each word and it is going along in my head like a narrative, albeit without the pauses and with less expression.

 

There are some things I do skim. Magazines, most things on the net (but I think there has been research that the way we read on the net is different than the way we read books, anyhow), recipes for sure. But I call that skimming because I am only processing on a superficial level and only some of the information. I don't call that reading, though I guess it IS a form of reading.

 

It sounds like we're on the same page. I was misunderstanding you. I thought you (or maybe it was someone else??) that said they read every.single.word every single time. I definitely do not do that. Certain things I skim through & am able to read quickly and still get a good understanding of what was being communicated. Other things, I slow down and take my time. For example, I read the book, The Shack (not to derail the thread - I know that's a hot topic! lol) and hated the beginning. I skimmed through it enough to understand the entire plot & when I got to the middle of the book, I slowed down to enjoy it more. I agree skimming can be more superficial if you always did it, but sometimes, it's not necessary to devote your full attention to get the information you need, it just depends on what it is exactly you're reading.

 

Having said all that, there still seems to be differing opinions on how our brains process words. I personally think we do it mostly via whole word reading, while others feel we do it phonetically (but quickly). In the end, I guess I don't really care - just as long as I can read!!:D

 

Susan

[nmoira]

 

wasn't that easy for me. I could read it, yes! But not as easily as I read properly spelled text! It took a little effort, and a few words really tripped me up. Am I the only one??? :confused:

The longer I look at the "words," the less they look like words. At speed, I can read it flawlessly.

[Crispa]

I read differently depending whether I'm reading aloud, reading silently, reading online, reading a book vs. a newspaper, reading a book for fun, reading a book for education/instruction, proofreading, or copy editing. Or reading English vs. another language.

[boscopup]

Greta, I can read it, but it's not as fast as my normal reading.

[Matryoshka]

Oh, and I do not read differently out loud than I do to myself. At all. I hear the words in my head, every word, as I read them. Interesting.

 

Me too. I also don't skip words when I read out loud, and I'm an excellent speller. I don't know that I was ever taught phonics (as I taught myself to read before entering school, and then was left to read books independently while the other kids learned when I entered school), but I somehow intuited the phonics rules (and the spelling rules).

 

I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that I'm a very auditory learner.

 

I also don't think I skim ahead - if I do, I don't realize it. But on the other hand, sometimes I realize I've accidentally read something without realizing it - usually a word or a short phrase - it appears in my head and I have to look around to figure out where it came from (usually a sign or a large-print book title or something).

Edited April 30, 2011 by matroyshka

[Greta]

The longer I look at the "words," the less they look like words. At speed, I can read it flawlessly.

 

Maybe I was going too slowly. :)

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I read very quickly. I don't know if I read whole words or not, but when I am very interested in a storyline, I've found that I miss details. I can come back a second time and pick up on those details because I'm not rushing through to find out what happens. When I read a book out loud to my dc, I get even more out of it because I cannot skip words.

 

Oddly enough, I've noticed that I do read ahead while I am reading out loud. My eyes are usually several words ahead of where my voice is. If I'm especially interested in the story, I will get too far ahead of myself. Once I'm more than three lines ahead of myself I get lost and I have to stop reading and figure out where I was.

 

Whether or not I read phonetically on a regular basis, I think that phonics are essential for learning how to read or for handling new, unfamiliar words.

 

I agree! I do the same thing and I too think phonics is the way to go. My 2nd grader who has been skipping short words and sort of guessing at other words was and is still being taught with phonics (ETC & OPG) so I guess it is also a difference in how our brains work.

[JustGin]

I don't read this way, but my oldest dd does and we recently had her evaluated because when she reads silently for pleasure her comprehension is fantastic, but when she reads for information comprehension goes out the window. If she listens to the same information comprehension again soars. The eval showed she does have a learning disability, she has a slow processor caused by inattentive ADD. Based on this I'd surmise that reading this way is not "normal", though obviously people can learn to read (she certainly did) and, I'd guess, may be able to do it this way with varying levels of efficiency.

 

ETA: For clarity - she reads by scanning. She skips words and uses context to discern meaning. She uses a mixture of whole word and phonics to decode.

Edited April 30, 2011 by JustGin

[Sasharowan]

If you do think you read this way, or guess words, or sometimes say the wrong word or skip words if you are reading aloud, how did you learn to read? I am wondering if the people that believe all proficient readers do these things, were taught via whole word methods.

 

I do this when reading out loud, but not in silent reading. I taught myself to read at age 3 so I don't know what method was used but I would guess a combination of asking Mom what does this say and if that says this then this also says this. I can sound out words when I meet unfamiliar ones. I am a fast reader and I think this is what messes me up reading, I try to go too fast. My kids yell at me if it is an interesting book because I forget to read out loud and start reading silently and FASTER.

[RootAnn]

I think some adults skip words when reading. Many people wouldn't notice when there are two identical small words in a row unless they were looking for the mistake. (I have seen many times that people will miss the the repeated word in a newspaper article.)

 

I sometimes read the wrong words sometimes when reading aloud or skip words. I have no idea how I was taught to read, but remember the Jane/Dick books from Kindergarten. I know I wasn't taught straight phonics (using phonograms), but perhaps a blend of phonics-y methods and sight words.

[TXBeth]

I was taught using phonics (Abeka). If I am intentionally skimming, I skip words. Otherwise I read every word, but not one at a time. That would take WAY too long. I taught myself to speed read when I was around 8 because I got annoyed that the stories weren't progressing fast enough. I wanted to know what happened next and my eyes couldn't keep up. By the time I hit sixth grade and did the speed reading/comprehension part of Abeka LA, I was reading around 900 wpm with 100% comprehension tests. This would not be possible by reading one word at a time, or by skipping words.

 

Of course, I don't normally read this fast. That was when I was focusing on reading fast and also remembering the information for the quiz. But I still tend to read chunks of about 5-6 words at a time, only stopping for individual words if they are new or don't seem to make sense.

 

I do skip words if I am intentionally skimming, trying to find specific information, or reading Dickens and trying to get past the scenery to the actual story. :tongue_smilie:

[Mergath]

I have no idea how I read, lol. My brain just sort of takes in anywhere from five to ten words at a time without my having to do anything. I wasn't taught using any particular method, just taught myself when I was three or four, according to my mom (who, since I was her first, thought all kids learn to read this way :tongue_smilie:). I had no problems reading the mixed up bit earlier in the post, and like others have said, the faster I read it, the easier it was.

[Amy Jo]

I've been told I read very fast. I almost never read word for word, I just need the general idea. I do not normally skip whole sections, unless I am looking for specific information and the material is not interesting. I sound out unfamiliar words and long words. I can vary my speed as well. If I'm reading an old classic or a more dense read (How To Read a Book comes to mind) I slow down, and may even reread sections. If it's a pleasure book or I only want specific information, I skim / speed read / read ideas / whatever. Hope that makes sense!

 

I have no issues reading aloud AFAIK. If I am tired or have a cold it's more difficult. I spell fairly well, but I do use my visual memory a lot. I tend to rewrite a word that doesn't "look right" until it does. I know phonetically what phonograms can fit, but I still rely the most on what looks correct. I was taught to read with phonics.

 

I'm of the opinion that contemporary books are pretty easy to read and that might be part of the problem (if it is a problem). I'm sure if you took fast readers (myself included) and handed them Ivanhoe either they would give up or their speed would decrease a lot.