Amazon won't hire homeschoolers?

[Parrothead]

Honestly, maybe a boycott isn't the answer. I'd say a letter writing campaign may be in order if it turns out they do have a policy against homeschoolers.

 

Well written articulate letters from homeschool teens and/or parents of homeschooled kids stating why parent issued diplomas are as good as, or even superior to, the so-called state issued diplomas.

[joannqn]

Frankly, education in America is such a mess right now that I wouldn't be impressed with a public high school diploma, if I were an employer. I'd be giving tests to prospective employees to be sure they had the skills required for the job.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm in a position where my kids will probably earn a public school diploma without ever setting foot in a school. Because I view the diploma as practically worthless, I plan to back the diploma with a cover letter explaining how the schooling was accomplished and a detailed homeschool-style transcript.

 

I'm not sure why a document that is acceptable for college admissions and military enlistment (transcript documenting courses completed, with or without accompanying course descriptions) should be less acceptable for job applications.

 

Colleges have other tools that they also use for admissions, including test scores, personal statements and interviews.

 

Employers also have other tools at their disposal, including resumes, job related aptitude tests, professional certificates (ex, many of the Amazon job openings that I found were IT jobs that wanted IT related certs) and an interview.

 

:iagree:

[elegantlion]

Here's one place you can order custom diplomas. http://www.homeschooldiploma.com/diplomas-and-diploma-covers/high-school-diplomas-for-home-schools/personalized-and-exclusive-diplomas/diploma-wording-1.html

 

I have no experience with them, they simply were the first ones on the google search.

[Dolphin]

what happened? Can someone pm me?

[Just Robyn]

what happened? Can someone pm me?

 

done

[Just Robyn]

I did apologize for jumping in and stating my opinion. But no matter how many posts I have or have not made is irrelevant in my opinion. I have been a member of many message boards in the past and I also understand that some people get on these boards to cause problems. I however, am not one such individual. I was simply stating my opinion and my own experience. I believe that it is more hurtful for someone to act as though I am some trouble maker who makes up lies to prove a point than to just disagree with what I have to say. I in no way attacked anyone's beliefs, or opinions. I simply expressed my own experience with the company in question. I have made my peace and I do not believe that I need to constantly defend myself. I was not trying to be rude or cause a problem. I was just simply inserting my good experience with the company. I am not a liar or trouble maker, and it was not my intent to accuse anyone else as one. I realize I jumped in awkwardly but that shouldn't warrant a verbal lashing out. I do agree that we need to hear from corporate but you need to be a bit more humane in how you react to other individuals and not discredit their opinion or experiences just solely because they are new.

 

I thank those of you who have accepted my apology and welcomed me.

 

:iagree: but that will never happen on these boards. One needs thick skin to post here.

[FO4UR]

Honestly, maybe a boycott isn't the answer. I'd say a letter writing campaign may be in order if it turns out they do have a policy against homeschoolers.

 

Well written articulate letters from homeschool teens and/or parents of homeschooled kids stating why parent issued diplomas are as good as, or even superior to, the so-called state issued diplomas.

 

:iagree:

 

Signed,

Paula (who spends x$ each year at Amazon.com on homeschooling books and supplies)

[Night Elf]

Wow, this is so NOT true. I have a college freshman and he didn't need any of the three options you give. He just needed his "mommy diploma and transcript," SAT/ACT scores, and an application. He got accepted everywhere he applied.

 

I was referring to the colleges I've checked in Georgia. I thought I mentioned my state. Anyhoo, a homeschool portfolio IS the mommy transcript. In Georgia, high school students are expected to complete College Preparatory Curriculum Requirements (CPCs). All of the colleges I've checked, and admittedly I have not researched every single college/university in the state of Georgia, they require high school students to have an accredited diploma or GED and SAT/ACT scores. For students who do not have accredited diplomas, there is a portfolio option. This includes students who graduated from private high schools that aren't accredited.

 

This is from GA State University and is typical of what the other Georgia colleges I looked at require:

Portfolio Option: If you have at least a 1090 SAT (out of 1600 scale) or 23 ACT composite score, you are eligible to submit a portfolio.

You must also meet all the minimum section scores (SAT: 430 Critical Reading, 400 Math; ACT: 17 English, 17 Math).

SAT and ACT test scores must be submitted electronically directly from the testing organization.

The portfolio should be a summary detailing the years of high school study, which outlines the following:

**A yearly listing of subjects studied

**Titles of textbooks and other classroom resources

**Assignment descriptions and examples of coursework, tests, and assignments

**Outline of themes covered in the course

 

What am I missing?

[TravelingChris]

Well Night Elf, it seems like Georgia Public Universities are just anti-homescholing. Other state and private schools don't require anything of the sort. DD is going to attend University of Alabama with a full tuition scholarship and I didn't send anything like that nor did she have an accredited diploma. What she did have is 6 credits from community colleges, AP test score, and great ACT test scores plus my transcript.

[MischiefManaged]

Let me state something-I don't think Amazon is specifically targeting homeschoolers for discrimination. My assumption is that this policy was put in place by well meaning people to weed out undesirable candidates.

 

That being said, this is a great opportunity to flex some of our consumer muscle and rectify the issue. At this point I am not shopping there. I will start shopping at Amazon again as soon as they provide me with something in writing saying they will accept parent issued diplomas. If they chose not to then I won't shop there.

........

 

Again I am not getting anything in writing from Amazon, even though I have called and emailed. As soon as I do I will post it.

 

If others feel compelled to call our write the number is (206) 266-1000. When I addressed this via the phone they recommended I email the following address careers@amazon.com. If anyone has better contact info I would appreciate it.

:iagree:

[SonshineLearner]

I would think that a bookstore would WANT homeschooler's business. Seriously, we ARE their demographic, right?

[justasque]

I would think that a bookstore would WANT homeschooler's business. Seriously, we ARE their demographic, right?

 

I haven't seen any evidence that they are specifically targeting homeschoolers. Their criteria just makes it harder for homeschoolers who do not have a state diploma or a GED to qualify. I would be surprised if they set it up this way to purposely rule out homeschoolers, and we shouldn't act as if they did without evidence therof. We are a minority, and people making rules don't always think about how they may affect minorities. This is usually solved with informative advocacy, delivered with a smile.

 

What should we then suggest as a "path C"? (Paths A and B being the state diploma and the GED.)

 

Many large companies have very strict, specific guidelines for job applicants, as they do not want to be accused of inappropriate bias of some sort after the fact. Thus they would need clear guidelines as to "path C" qualifications.

 

A suggestion of a "mom diploma" printed from the internet is not likely to be met with acceptance.

 

A portfolio and/or transcript review process, as described by a previous poster? (That is a lot of work for the company, as then they would have to set up guidelines/standards for portfolios, not to mention review them all, but in some ways it is the most flexible possibility.) Would it require so many courses in core subjects, etc, like colleges do? Or perhaps one could qualify with scores on standardized testing, like APs or CLEPs or SAT subject tests? Would it be a "one from column A, one from column B" kind of system, in which the standards could be met in various ways?

 

A certain number of college credits (a year's worth is seen as the equivalent of a GED by PA and perhaps other states)? (Though then you get into the question of *which* courses, and *which* colleges, accreditation, etc.)

 

Other suggestions?

[MischiefManaged]

I haven't seen any evidence that they are specifically targeting homeschoolers. Their criteria just makes it harder for homeschoolers who do not have a state diploma or a GED to qualify. I would be surprised if they set it up this way to purposely rule out homeschoolers, and we shouldn't act as if they did without evidence therof.

 

actually, it makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a homeschooler who doesn't have a GED or state diploma to qualify, although I do agree w/ the general sentiment that it's not likely targeted to homeschoolers. Whether it was their intent or not, though, the fastest way to get an answer is with your pocketbook, so withholding our possible purchases until we get an answer is a reasonable way to address consumer issues in the business world [like Subway did in their writing contest-- remember that one? not *intentional*, but not well-thought out. And they responded QUICKLY to the assertions].

 

Path C.....honestly, I would just leave off the "state-certified" part. requiring anything "certified" basically just means someone paid a fee somewhere along the way. Especially if we're talking entry-level warehouse work. It's fairly common practice. Unless they are requiring college then college shouldn't be tied to the criteria: a diploma should stand on its own.

[In The Great White North]

Well Night Elf, it seems like Georgia Public Universities are just anti-homescholing. Other state and private schools don't require anything of the sort

 

That was certainly the impression I had. We crossed Georgia Tech off our list, as soon as we saw they required a bunch of SAT II's. Ds applied to 4 other schools, and was accepted, with his transcript, mommy diploma and SAT scores.

 

Again I am not getting anything in writing from Amazon, even though I have called and emailed.

 

Their lack of response leads me to think it really is their policy.

[creekland]

I was referring to the colleges I've checked in Georgia. I thought I mentioned my state. Anyhoo, a homeschool portfolio IS the mommy transcript. In Georgia, high school students are expected to complete College Preparatory Curriculum Requirements (CPCs). All of the colleges I've checked, and admittedly I have not researched every single college/university in the state of Georgia, they require high school students to have an accredited diploma or GED and SAT/ACT scores. For students who do not have accredited diplomas, there is a portfolio option. This includes students who graduated from private high schools that aren't accredited.

 

This is from GA State University and is typical of what the other Georgia colleges I looked at require:

Portfolio Option: If you have at least a 1090 SAT (out of 1600 scale) or 23 ACT composite score, you are eligible to submit a portfolio.

You must also meet all the minimum section scores (SAT: 430 Critical Reading, 400 Math; ACT: 17 English, 17 Math).

SAT and ACT test scores must be submitted electronically directly from the testing organization.

The portfolio should be a summary detailing the years of high school study, which outlines the following:

**A yearly listing of subjects studied

**Titles of textbooks and other classroom resources

**Assignment descriptions and examples of coursework, tests, and assignments

**Outline of themes covered in the course

 

What am I missing?

 

My guess is that these are needed for students who are around their minimum levels on scores - perhaps up to median levels for the school. Middle son is well above them - and has been sent the basic mailings from Ga Tech and Ga State. He's not interested in either, so we won't be pursuing them, but I fully suspect the "rules" change once you reach a different "proof" level with scores.

 

I don't think this is just true with GA schools (that rules change). Both oldest and middle sons had schools outright ask us if we had considered letting them go to college a year early - totally NOT finishing high school. If we had taken them up on it, neither would have had 4 years of English (almost always a requirement), so rules must be different than what is posted. As it is, I have absolutely no desire to send my offspring off to a 4 year school early. They have taken cc classes (one for oldest and two for middle son), but we just consider those to be for high school credit.

 

Whether people want to admit it or not, there is a wide variety in homeschool education. Colleges know this. Parents do need to show their offspring have been educated in some manner. If high scores do this, that's all that's needed. With lower scores (esp like the minimums above), they want to see more. I understand that completely personally.

 

And, I don't think it's much different for ps kids. I work at our local public high school. We are NOT a good academic school. It's VERY tough for even our top kids to get accepted into tier one schools. It doesn't help that we've had top kids get accepted into lower level schools and test into remedial college courses... If a student from our public school applies somewhere good, they need to also show a bit of proof of education by higher scores or other "things" with their application.

 

This goes along with the idea that a ps diploma can be no better than a homemade one when it comes to individual knowledge.

 

And I won't be buying from Amazon until they change their policy since all signs so far seem to show what has been said is, indeed, true.

[Teachin'Mine]

If the execs at Amazon are as smart as I suspect they are, they are quickly revising their policy and putting it in writing, and will reply toot sweet to the questions that have been asked. ;)

 

If that's not the case, then they have no idea about the buying power of the homeschool community and will find their policy to be a costly mistake. My dd will probably have a diploma from an accredited school, but I will do what's necessary to support all homeschoolers. Amazon is just one company - how many others are doing the same without being forthright about their reasons? Amazon has an opportunity to set things right and educate others about the validity of homeschool diplomas. I would never want my dd to take the GED after she graduates. Why on earth should she or anyone else who has graduated high school.

 

Hope to hear some good news soon!

[Alison in KY]

I got a response. I haven't read all the thread, but I did email them my question concerning their hiring policies. I also stated that as a frequent customer, I would no longer give them my business if this policy is true and they do not change it so homeschool graduates can be hired. My response was:

 

"Hello,

 

Greetings from Amazon!

 

We're proud to have had a long-standing policy that protects against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Amazon provides lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender employees and their families with equal access to our benefits programs, and we offer resource groups for LGBT employees at all of our facilities.

 

On the 2010 HRC Corporate Equality Index, Amazon’s policies were positively recognized with 95 out of 100 possible points.

 

We value all feedback from our customers, and thank you for taking the time to send us your comments on this issue.

 

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?"

 

Uh no, you did not solve my problem :confused:. I then was able to respond again and state again what my issue was. Hopefully this time I'll receive a different answer.

 

Alison

[cdrumm4448]

I e-mailed the CEO and this is the response I just got:

 

Christine,

My name is Troy Winters and I am a Regional HR Manager with Amazon.com. I understand you raised a concern with our CEO regarding our proof of education hiring criteria. I would love to speak with you to better understand your concerns and gather some additional information regarding this issue. I can be reached at 502-758-3223 or feel free to email me your number and I will reach out to you. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Troy Winters

Sr. HR Manager

502-758-3223

 

 

I don't have time to call him today as I'm in the middle of a garage sale. Any input before I call?

[Hannah C.]

I got a response. I haven't read all the thread, but I did email them my question concerning their hiring policies. I also stated that as a frequent customer, I would no longer give them my business if this policy is true and they do not change it so homeschool graduates can be hired. My response was:

 

"Hello,

 

Greetings from Amazon!

 

We're proud to have had a long-standing policy that protects against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Amazon provides lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender employees and their families with equal access to our benefits programs, and we offer resource groups for LGBT employees at all of our facilities.

 

On the 2010 HRC Corporate Equality Index, Amazon’s policies were positively recognized with 95 out of 100 possible points.

 

We value all feedback from our customers, and thank you for taking the time to send us your comments on this issue.

 

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?"

 

Uh no, you did not solve my problem :confused:. I then was able to respond again and state again what my issue was. Hopefully this time I'll receive a different answer.

 

Alison

 

This sounds to me like a canned reply, possibly sent by a computer based on keywords. The "Did I solve your problem?" part especially makes me think it was quite automated. I think a real person would have realized that's *not* what you were asking about!

[mommaduck]

I got a response. I haven't read all the thread, but I did email them my question concerning their hiring policies. I also stated that as a frequent customer, I would no longer give them my business if this policy is true and they do not change it so homeschool graduates can be hired. My response was:

 

"Hello,

 

Greetings from Amazon!

 

We're proud to have had a long-standing policy that protects against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Amazon provides lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender employees and their families with equal access to our benefits programs, and we offer resource groups for LGBT employees at all of our facilities.

 

On the 2010 HRC Corporate Equality Index, Amazon’s policies were positively recognized with 95 out of 100 possible points.

 

We value all feedback from our customers, and thank you for taking the time to send us your comments on this issue.

 

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?"

 

Uh no, you did not solve my problem :confused:. I then was able to respond again and state again what my issue was. Hopefully this time I'll receive a different answer.

 

Alison

Ouch...I think they just saw "discrimination" and up came that canned response.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I got a response. I haven't read all the thread, but I did email them my question concerning their hiring policies. I also stated that as a frequent customer, I would no longer give them my business if this policy is true and they do not change it so homeschool graduates can be hired. My response was:

 

"Hello,

 

Greetings from Amazon!

 

We're proud to have had a long-standing policy that protects against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Amazon provides lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender employees and their families with equal access to our benefits programs, and we offer resource groups for LGBT employees at all of our facilities.

 

On the 2010 HRC Corporate Equality Index, Amazon’s policies were positively recognized with 95 out of 100 possible points.

 

We value all feedback from our customers, and thank you for taking the time to send us your comments on this issue.

 

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?"

 

Uh no, you did not solve my problem :confused:. I then was able to respond again and state again what my issue was. Hopefully this time I'll receive a different answer.

 

Alison

 

:lol::lol::lol: I know that shouldn't be funny, but it sort of turned over my giggle box. :lol::lol::lol:

 

I'm glad to know about that discrimination policy, but I'd also like to know about the one you asked about as well. Just because they don't condone one sort of discrimination doesn't mean they aren't engaging in another.

[Alison in KY]

:lol::lol::lol: I know that shouldn't be funny, but it sort of turned over my giggle box. :lol::lol::lol:

 

I'm glad to know about that discrimination policy, but I'd also like to know about the one you asked about as well. Just because they don't condone one sort of discrimination doesn't mean they aren't engaging in another.

 

:lol:Yeah, I know. For a second I thought "What did I ask them?"

 

Alison

[Jean in Newcastle]

:lol:Yeah, I know. For a second I thought "What did I ask them?"

 

Alison

 

Well you know from the "homeschooler misconceptions" thread that homeschooling your kids will turn them gay. . .

[mommaduck]

Well you know from the "homeschooler misconceptions" thread that homeschooling your kids will turn them gay. . .

 

:lol:

[Mrs Mungo]

I e-mailed the CEO and this is the response I just got:

 

Christine,

My name is Troy Winters and I am a Regional HR Manager with Amazon.com. I understand you raised a concern with our CEO regarding our proof of education hiring criteria. I would love to speak with you to better understand your concerns and gather some additional information regarding this issue. I can be reached at 502-758-3223 or feel free to email me your number and I will reach out to you. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Troy Winters

Sr. HR Manager

502-758-3223

 

 

I don't have time to call him today as I'm in the middle of a garage sale. Any input before I call?

 

Looks like they are trying to glean information in order to refine their policy. I would suggest that they allow homeschoolers to offer other proof of their education level through portfolio, testing, college hours. Those are the sorts of things required in lieu of a state diploma by colleges, the military, etc. You might also let them know that private school students wouldn't have a state certified diploma either.

 

Well you know from the "homeschooler misconceptions" thread that homeschooling your kids will turn them gay. . .

 

Well, then our bases will be covered once we clear up this issue. :lol:

Edited April 28, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[mommaduck]

I e-mailed the CEO and this is the response I just got:

 

Christine,

My name is Troy Winters and I am a Regional HR Manager with Amazon.com. I understand you raised a concern with our CEO regarding our proof of education hiring criteria. I would love to speak with you to better understand your concerns and gather some additional information regarding this issue. I can be reached at 502-758-3223 or feel free to email me your number and I will reach out to you. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Troy Winters

Sr. HR Manager

502-758-3223

 

 

I don't have time to call him today as I'm in the middle of a garage sale. Any input before I call?

This is a positive response...at least in the right direction.

[FaithManor]

Hey, I've got this covered with a basic syllogism:

 

Amazon has an anti-discrimination policy for gender identity.

 

Everyone knows homeschooling makes kids have gender identity problems.

 

Amazon must then hire all homeschoolers who apply in order not to discriminate against them because of their gender identity problems.

 

:D:D:D

 

Simple logic!

 

:biggrinjester: Faith

[MischiefManaged]

I would suggest that they allow homeschoolers to offer other proof of their education level through portfolio, testing, college hours. Those are the sorts of things required in lieu of a state diploma by colleges, the military, etc. You might also let them know that private school students wouldn't have a state certified diploma either.

 

 

 

actually, I'd just let them know that since most states don't see a need to 'certify' a homeschool diploma then neither should Amazon. At most, a transcript should be sufficient w/a statement of fact. Not everyone takes the SAT, not everyone is interested in college, and an entry-level position is a lot different from enrolling in a college or joining the military. Now what they require for promotion is a whole 'nother ball of wax, but that's where I'd start.

 

If that's unacceptable, then maybe a short test on skills across the board, not just 'state certified' diplomas, might be an option.

 

What do other warehouse-type businesses require for entry level positions? How much do they follow up on high school education?

 

Maybe also share a link to HSLDA showing the differences in requirements for homeschoolers. ....

[MischiefManaged]

This is a positive response...at least in the right direction.

:iagree:

[creekland]

I got a response. I haven't read all the thread, but I did email them my question concerning their hiring policies. I also stated that as a frequent customer, I would no longer give them my business if this policy is true and they do not change it so homeschool graduates can be hired. My response was:

 

"Hello,

 

Greetings from Amazon!

 

We're proud to have had a long-standing policy that protects against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Amazon provides lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender employees and their families with equal access to our benefits programs, and we offer resource groups for LGBT employees at all of our facilities.

 

On the 2010 HRC Corporate Equality Index, Amazon’s policies were positively recognized with 95 out of 100 possible points.

 

We value all feedback from our customers, and thank you for taking the time to send us your comments on this issue.

 

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?"

 

Uh no, you did not solve my problem :confused:. I then was able to respond again and state again what my issue was. Hopefully this time I'll receive a different answer.

 

Alison

 

Um, ok, yeah...

 

This gives me such warm cozy feelings for how much Amazon cares about their customers and their inquiries...

 

Machines tend to do that for me.

[creekland]

I e-mailed the CEO and this is the response I just got:

 

Christine,

My name is Troy Winters and I am a Regional HR Manager with Amazon.com. I understand you raised a concern with our CEO regarding our proof of education hiring criteria. I would love to speak with you to better understand your concerns and gather some additional information regarding this issue. I can be reached at 502-758-3223 or feel free to email me your number and I will reach out to you. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Troy Winters

Sr. HR Manager

502-758-3223

 

 

I don't have time to call him today as I'm in the middle of a garage sale. Any input before I call?

 

This one makes me feel MUCH better! I'm fully in the "have a company test for needed skills" field or don't complain about a diploma (of any type).

[Mrs Mungo]

actually, I'd just let them know that since most states don't see a need to 'certify' a homeschool diploma then neither should Amazon. At most, a transcript should be sufficient w/a statement of fact. Not everyone takes the SAT, not everyone is interested in college, and an entry-level position is a lot different from enrolling in a college or joining the military. Now what they require for promotion is a whole 'nother ball of wax, but that's where I'd start.

 

I totally disagree. The reason the military only allows in a certain number of people with GEDs each year is because of their bad retention rates. The same thing would apply to any company. They like to keep their turnover rates low. High turnover costs them money.

 

Many of the "entry level" jobs in the military are similar to what you would find in the civilian world (not everyone drives a tank): supply chain management, warehousing, truck drivers, etc.

 

Testing is simple, it doesn't cost the company anything (like the type of test you would request), it gives specific feedback. The ACT, the ITBS, there are plenty of tests that could be accepted and testing *is* required by many states.

 

I would not mention HSLDA, it might come across as threatening with lawyers, that's not the way to get one's point across to a private company, imo.

[yinne]

This was the reply that I received back after asking about their employment policies:

 

I understand your disappointment about the Amazon prime membership being eligible for the college students with a valid .edu e-mail address, and be actively enrolled in at least one course at a college or university located in the United States.

 

It is true that we currently have this free prime membership only for the student with valid enrollments in universities.

 

I had to go back and reread my email to them -- have no idea how they came up with this response. I felt like I was in the twilight zone!!!

 

Yvonne in NE

[creekland]

This was the reply that I received back after asking about their employment policies:

 

I understand your disappointment about the Amazon prime membership being eligible for the college students with a valid .edu e-mail address, and be actively enrolled in at least one course at a college or university located in the United States.

 

It is true that we currently have this free prime membership only for the student with valid enrollments in universities.

 

I had to go back and reread my email to them -- have no idea how they came up with this response. I felt like I was in the twilight zone!!!

 

Yvonne in NE

 

WOW... It makes one wonder if it was a machine (likely) or someone having "fun" with a homeschooling parent (conspiracy theory). ;)

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

This was the reply that I received back after asking about their employment policies:

 

I understand your disappointment about the Amazon prime membership being eligible for the college students with a valid .edu e-mail address, and be actively enrolled in at least one course at a college or university located in the United States.

 

It is true that we currently have this free prime membership only for the student with valid enrollments in universities.

 

I had to go back and reread my email to them -- have no idea how they came up with this response. I felt like I was in the twilight zone!!!

 

Yvonne in NE

It seems like their "canned response machine" is working overtime today! :lol:

[cdrumm4448]

I had a moment, so I called Troy Winters, but got his voicemail. I asked him to call me tomorrow. I will keep you all posted as to our conversation.

[Alison in KY]

Thank you. I'll be checking on his response.

 

Alison

[MischiefManaged]

I totally disagree. The reason the military only allows in a certain number of people with GEDs each year is because of their bad retention rates.

 

Q: bad retention rates of entry level people, or bad retention rates of people w/ GED's?

 

The same thing would apply to any company. They like to keep their turnover rates low. High turnover costs them money. Many of the "entry level" jobs in the military are similar to what you would find in the civilian world (not everyone drives a tank): supply chain management, warehousing, truck drivers, etc.

 

I have not been in the military [and i understand you have], but have spoken w/ enough people in the military and been in enough civilian jobs to say that equating the two on a level playing field is a stretch. Completely different purposes. There's a reason WalMart is so successful, and part of that success is making the work environment regulated enough that high turnover isn't that big a deal. I can see why the military [and many other smaller companies] wouldn't want that, but Amazon is hardly a smaller company.

 

Testing is simple, it doesn't cost the company anything (like the type of test you would request), it gives specific feedback. The ACT, the ITBS, there are plenty of tests that could be accepted and testing *is* required by many states.

 

Testing for what? How many states *require* that homeschoolers take the SAT/ ACT/ ITBS/etc? You really think requiring homeschoolers to take a test that takes several hours/ costs $40 and up/ requires specific studying is actually better than a maybe two page test that can be taken on the spot in less than 30 minutes and reflects skills needed immediately? Aside from my personal opinion of getting AWAY from requiring more from homeschoolers than other traditionally schooled kids, it doesn't sound right fiscally or practically.

 

I would not mention HSLDA, it might come across as threatening with lawyers, that's not the way to get one's point across to a private company, imo.

 

I absolutely agree w/ not throwing legal crap at them. :) i meant just as a way to help inform about the diverse requirements of homeschoolers across the nation, cuz I wouldn't expect them to know, and it can help them see how there's not a uniform national standard. I certainly wouldn't even hint at the legal aspect. A link to their laws page would be good. And it's an organization w/ more credibility "out there" than many other blogs. [disclaimer: i know their credibility with many homeschoolers is shot, lol --

but as far as been there done that, they are the big dog on the block.]

[Mrs Mungo]

Q: bad retention rates of entry level people, or bad retention rates of people w/ GED's?

 

Bad retention rates of people with GEDs. The military doesn't intend for you to still be in an entry-level job after 4 years (or whatever your initial enlistment might be). But, they would rather keep you to be a future leader.

 

I have not been in the military [and i understand you have], but have spoken w/ enough people in the military and been in enough civilian jobs to say that equating the two on a level playing field is a stretch. Completely different purposes. There's a reason WalMart is so successful, and part of that success is making the work environment regulated enough that high turnover isn't that big a deal. I can see why the military [and many other smaller companies] wouldn't want that, but Amazon is hardly a smaller company.

 

I am just a military wife, but I've been one a long time and have a pretty good understanding of how things work.

 

I don't think the business practices of amazon and wal-mart can be compared, having known people who worked in both companies (on the executive level).

 

Testing for what? How many states *require* that homeschoolers take the SAT/ ACT/ ITBS/etc?

 

According to HSLDA 21 states have moderate or high regulation, I think all of those require testing (every state I've homeschooled in has required testing).

 

You really think requiring homeschoolers to take a test that takes several hours/ costs $40 and up/ requires specific studying is actually better than a maybe two page test that can be taken on the spot in less than 30 minutes and reflects skills needed immediately? Aside from my personal opinion of getting AWAY from requiring more from homeschoolers than other traditionally schooled kids, it doesn't sound right fiscally or practically.

 

Requiring something legally and a company requiring something are entirely different. I never prepped my kids for testing and they score extremely well. I think it's a simple way to have homeschool graduates *prepared* with scores. It is what many jobs, colleges and such already require of *all* high school graduates. Plus, you can do testing through the public school for free in most states if you really wanted to do so.

[sewpeaceful]

Oh good gracious. It is THIS kind of silliness that makes me want to throw my kids in public school in 12th grade - just to get that stinking "official" diploma! :tongue_smilie:

[creekland]

Oh good gracious. It is THIS kind of silliness that makes me want to throw my kids in public school in 12th grade - just to get that stinking "official" diploma! :tongue_smilie:

 

In our district that wouldn't work. Our school district doesn't recognize any homeschooled courses and won't give credit for them. Since kids here need 28 credits to graduate, it would be difficult to cram that many into one year. ;)

[mandymom]

In our district that wouldn't work. Our school district doesn't recognize any homeschooled courses and won't give credit for them. Since kids here need 28 credits to graduate, it would be difficult to cram that many into one year. ;)

 

Anyone tranferring from homeschooling or an unaccredited private school has to test for every credit they are "missing" in order to receive a diploma from public school in our district.

[heliconian]

It all seems so simple to resolve. All Amazon would have to do to solve this problem would be to add the phrase "or equivalent" to their requirements. That would leave them free to accept private or homeschool diplomas, proof of college enrollment, or any other proof offered (international schooling has widely varied standards, for example) AT THEIR DISCRETION, placing the burden upon the prospective employee. This is essentially what colleges do when looking at homeschoolers, isn't it?

 

On a slightly different topic, here in California, there are two different tests that a student can take instead of graduating from high school - the GED or the California High School Proficiency Exam. The CHSPE is considered equivalent to a high school diploma and is often used by students who want to leave school early. It does not seem to have the stigma of the GED. Is this unique to California?

[creekland]

Anyone tranferring from homeschooling or an unaccredited private school has to test for every credit they are "missing" in order to receive a diploma from public school in our district.

 

Our school doesn't allow testing for the credits either. I outright asked. I was told/warned multiple times when I pulled my 9th graders out that it would mean we couldn't change our minds without causing my kids to need extra time to graduate.

[creekland]

It all seems so simple to resolve. All Amazon would have to do to solve this problem would be to add the phrase "or equivalent" to their requirements. That would leave them free to accept private or homeschool diplomas, proof of college enrollment, or any other proof offered (international schooling has widely varied standards, for example) AT THEIR DISCRETION, placing the burden upon the prospective employee. This is essentially what colleges do when looking at homeschoolers, isn't it?

 

 

:iagree: Great idea!

 

On a slightly different topic, here in California, there are two different tests that a student can take instead of graduating from high school - the GED or the California High School Proficiency Exam. The CHSPE is considered equivalent to a high school diploma and is often used by students who want to leave school early. It does not seem to have the stigma of the GED. Is this unique to California?

 

PA doesn't have it.

[Mrs Mungo]

According to my friend Amazon generally requires a high school diploma or equivalency. But, each local hiring office can have its own standards.

[cdrumm4448]

I just got off the phone with Troy Winters. He was very proactive in trying to determine what Amazon should use for hiring homeschoolers. He reiterated that dismissing homeschoolers was never their intention. It's just something that sort of snuck up on them. Anyway, we went over portfolios, testing, college transcripts/report cards. We also discussed the GED and why that isn't an viable option for many homeschoolers. I also encouraged him to register here and begin a thread to gather as much input from homeschoolers as he can (so if he does, let's all make him feel welcome :001_smile:) because I certainly don't speak for everyone.

 

Overall, it was a very positive, encouraging conversation. He has made a commitment to have a policy in writing by the end of May. I suggested it be published on his website.

[Carrie12345]

I just got off the phone with Troy Winters. He was very proactive in trying to determine what Amazon should use for hiring homeschoolers. He reiterated that dismissing homeschoolers was never their intention. It's just something that sort of snuck up on them. Anyway, we went over portfolios, testing, college transcripts/report cards. We also discussed the GED and why that isn't an viable option for many homeschoolers. I also encouraged him to register here and begin a thread to gather as much input from homeschoolers as he can (so if he does, let's all make him feel welcome :001_smile:) because I certainly don't speak for everyone.

 

Overall, it was a very positive, encouraging conversation. He has made a commitment to have a policy in writing by the end of May. I suggested it be published on his website.

 

That is wonderful news! :)

[elegantlion]

I just got off the phone with Troy Winters. He was very proactive in trying to determine what Amazon should use for hiring homeschoolers. He reiterated that dismissing homeschoolers was never their intention. It's just something that sort of snuck up on them. Anyway, we went over portfolios, testing, college transcripts/report cards. We also discussed the GED and why that isn't an viable option for many homeschoolers. I also encouraged him to register here and begin a thread to gather as much input from homeschoolers as he can (so if he does, let's all make him feel welcome :001_smile:) because I certainly don't speak for everyone.

 

Overall, it was a very positive, encouraging conversation. He has made a commitment to have a policy in writing by the end of May. I suggested it be published on his website.

 

Wonderful. Thank you for being so proactive about this situation.

[mommaduck]

I just got off the phone with Troy Winters. He was very proactive in trying to determine what Amazon should use for hiring homeschoolers. He reiterated that dismissing homeschoolers was never their intention. It's just something that sort of snuck up on them. Anyway, we went over portfolios, testing, college transcripts/report cards. We also discussed the GED and why that isn't an viable option for many homeschoolers. I also encouraged him to register here and begin a thread to gather as much input from homeschoolers as he can (so if he does, let's all make him feel welcome :001_smile:) because I certainly don't speak for everyone.

 

Overall, it was a very positive, encouraging conversation. He has made a commitment to have a policy in writing by the end of May. I suggested it be published on his website.

 

Wonderful! :D