I'm required by law...

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't believe it was the intent of the founding fathers for the census to be used as an excuse to gather such intrusive information as the OP states was on her census form.

 

They could not have imagined the world we live in today. That's why the very wise founding fathers left it to *Congress* to decide what the questions should be. Again, the first economic questions came under the presidency of James Madison to determine the manufacturing capabilities of the nation. So, we *know* it is inaccurate to say that they never intended to gather statistics on the population.

 

Questions about commutes or whether you own a car are intended to help the government decide where its dollars are needed toward public transportation, the highway system and so forth. The reasons for the other questions are given in the link I gave.

 

How many people speak English in a given area? Do they need translators/bilingual workers at the local hospitals?

 

How many bathrooms does your home have? Does the water system in the area need to be improved?

 

These are government functions in ANY developed nation. The government needs information from individuals to help decide where and how to provide help with infrastructure.

 

I wonder how many states are losing representation in Congress because people didn't want to fill out the form?

 

Well, in this case they would be losing money toward hospitals, roads, etc.

[Lady Florida.]

Mrs. Mungo I suspect you're fighting a losing battle, but thank you for taking it on anyway. Maybe you'll convince someone lurking on this thread that the census isn't an evil government plot to...to...well to do whatever evil thing they're plotting do to with the information. ;)

[shea]

Mrs. Mungo I suspect you're fighting a losing battle, but thank you for taking it on anyway. Maybe you'll convince someone lurking on this thread that the census isn't an evil government plot to...to...well to do whatever evil thing they're plotting do to with the information. ;)

 

 

Questioning the necessity for certain questions on the long form census is equal to being a conspiracy theorist?

 

I guess all those "evil government plots" were done away with after the 2008 election.;)

 

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=104%3Aobama-administrations-power-grab-to-politicize-census-met-with-fierce-opposition-by-issa-and-mchenry&catid=22&Itemid=1

 

 

 

Though the census itself was not intended to be "an evil government plot", that doesn't mean the information collected can't be used in an "evil" way.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-the-us-census-b

[Mrs Mungo]

Questioning the necessity for certain questions on the long form census is equal to being a conspiracy theorist?

 

I guess all those "evil government plots" were done away with after the 2008 election.

 

I am anti EVIL GOVERNMENT PLOT talk, I don't care WHO is president. People who have been on this board a long time will back me up on that.

 

I can't find a non-partisan link that refutes the claim in the first link you gave (I realize your link was partisan, but I try to find non-partisan sources, especially since the report quoted Politco). Mostly, it comes down to this: the president gets to decide how some things are done and it was a non-issue for most people. McHenry encouraged people to fill out the census, there are quotes and videos galore to show that.

 

Though the census itself was not intended to be "an evil government plot", that doesn't mean the information collected can't be used in an "evil" way.

 

Sure, that's true. If you can figure out how the government asking how many bathrooms you have could be used for evil, I would love to hear it. :bigear:

[AngieC]

I declined to fill out the ACS, too. I got a phone call and once again declined. The worker told me that I could be fined and once I let her know that I knew that no one had ever actually been fined, that was the end of the conversation.

 

I wonder if it's easier to let those who don't want to give the information off the hook than it is to prosecute them and then be under all of the public scrutiny that surely will follow.

[Mrs Mungo]

I am so frustrated by people thinking it's okay to trample our rights for the greater good or perceived safety reasons. Slippery slope.

 

How can the government trample anyone's rights by using a tool outlined in the constitution? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Karen in CO]

Thanks for you voice of reason Mrs. Mungo:001_smile:

:iagree:

Yes, thank you. You've found some great historical references. Privacy is a large concern for me, but the census isn't one of my big concerns. I love the ability to look back at historical census data. This data will mean more to future historians than it does to anyone today. I've worked at database companies for more than 20 years and understand how data can be correlated to derive information that you never intended to share.

 

 

Have ya'll seen this report from the WSJ? It is a great example of how modern technology is leading people to freely surrender information that they'd never share if they were asked for it.

[nmoira]

Thanks for you voice of reason Mrs. Mungo:001_smile:

I'll add to the chorus of thanks.

 

The census is simply the most efficient and cost effective means for gathering data used not only by the government and policy wonks, but by academics and researchers across a vast range of disciplines.

[Audrey]

Except they will call and/or send someone out to make sure you received the survey and/or ask the questions directly.

 

 

 

 

Yes they will. If you do not respond by mail, they will send a person to your home. That person will sit down with you, read the questions to you and record your verbal answers for you. The Census does not assume everyone is literate and so they send a person out to help with literacy obstacles to completing the Census.

 

Even if you state that you can read... once they are out there at your door, they WILL walk through every single question, and they WILL require an answer from you. That is their mandate. If you refuse to comply, or you make threats, or are otherwise openly hostile, they can request law enforcement assistance and will return with said law enforcement in tow, if necessary.

 

I really don't think that it's worth all the trouble it could bring to be obstinate about it. Obviously, YMMV, but before you throw down your gauntlet on this, I would suggest you take a deep breath and ask yourself if it is worth the trouble and expense it could potentially bring.

[lionfamily1999]

They could not have imagined the world we live in today. That's why the very wise founding fathers left it to *Congress* to decide what the questions should be. Again, the first economic questions came under the presidency of James Madison to determine the manufacturing capabilities of the nation. So, we *know* it is inaccurate to say that they never intended to gather statistics on the population.

 

Questions about commutes or whether you own a car are intended to help the government decide where its dollars are needed toward public transportation, the highway system and so forth. The reasons for the other questions are given in the link I gave.

 

How many people speak English in a given area? Do they need translators/bilingual workers at the local hospitals?

 

How many bathrooms does your home have? Does the water system in the area need to be improved?

 

These are government functions in ANY developed nation. The government needs information from individuals to help decide where and how to provide help with infrastructure.

 

 

 

Well, in this case they would be losing money toward hospitals, roads, etc.

:iagree:

Mrs. Mungo I suspect you're fighting a losing battle, but thank you for taking it on anyway. Maybe you'll convince someone lurking on this thread that the census isn't an evil government plot to...to...well to do whatever evil thing they're plotting do to with the information. ;)

:iagree: and hey, I started out as a census hater ;)

Yes they will. If you do not respond by mail, they will send a person to your home. That person will sit down with you, read the questions to you and record your verbal answers for you. The Census does not assume everyone is literate and so they send a person out to help with literacy obstacles to completing the Census.

 

Even if you state that you can read... once they are out there at your door, they WILL walk through every single question, and they WILL require an answer from you. That is their mandate. If you refuse to comply, or you make threats, or are otherwise openly hostile, they can request law enforcement assistance and will return with said law enforcement in tow, if necessary.

 

I really don't think that it's worth all the trouble it could bring to be obstinate about it. Obviously, YMMV, but before you throw down your gauntlet on this, I would suggest you take a deep breath and ask yourself if it is worth the trouble and expense it could potentially bring.

And if you don't answer... they'll ask your neighbors and anyone who happens to be around. Isn't that fun? Instead of someone choosing how to put information, their neighbors get to say whatever they *think* is correct.

[Snowfall]

Mrs. Mungo I suspect you're fighting a losing battle, but thank you for taking it on anyway. Maybe you'll convince someone lurking on this thread that the census isn't an evil government plot to...to...well to do whatever evil thing they're plotting do to with the information. ;)

 

:iagree: Yes. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide those pesky facts.

[annlaura]

Good! I used to leave my back door all the way open, let alone unlocked. I love Toronto. Sorry again for the hijack.

 

Not to hijack, but I want to second this. I live in Toronto and it's a very safe city overall. The implication that it's dangerous and crime-riddled is a little excessive. Just wanted to defend my city...back to the Constitution now. ;)

[stripe]

I think it's great you're now allowed to define your own ethnicity. Some of the old forms are interesting to see such as was detailed in Passing Strange by Martha A. Sandweiss, which includes how a rich blond, blue eyed white man named Clarence King pretended to be a black man named James Todd, married Ada Copeland (a black lady), fathered children with her, lived a double life, and died (in 1909) before she ever learned his true identity.

 

I never knew there was any scuzzy, dangerous Canadian city. Much less one filled with so much fear of the government or armed intruders.

[LidiyaDawn]

I never knew there was any scuzzy, dangerous Canadian city. Much less one filled with so much fear of the government or armed intruders.

 

Toronto IS a lovely city :D - but the kinds & amounts of crime and the level of fear that someone may live with can vary greatly from one area of the city to another. While it's unfair to paint the entire city with the same brush, it's also unfair to discount someone's personal experience - there's no telling what part of the city Specialmama lived in, nor what she experienced day to day.

[Heidi]

Mostly, it comes down to this: the president gets to decide how some things are done and it was a non-issue for most people.

 

The census was used to locate Japanese Americans, round them up, and harrass them. It was a non-issue for most people??? That may be so, but the purpose of our Constitution was to protect our individual rights, no matter what the majority decides. We are not a democracy (majority rules), we are a republic.

I pray that MY ethnicity or religion or occupation does not one day become the target of the majority, because I'm well aware my God-given rights are no longer protected under our Almighty Government.

I believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law (the Constitution). Sadly, my government doesn't.

 

Sure, that's true. If you can figure out how the government asking how many bathrooms you have could be used for evil, I would love to hear it. :bigear:

 

Enforcing housing codes.

[nmoira]

I never knew there was any scuzzy, dangerous Canadian city. Much less one filled with so much fear of the government or armed intruders.

As with any large city, there are parts that I would rather not live. However, the murder rate in Toronto is just over half that of NYC, which itself is surprisingly low compared to other large US cities (this chart is sortable by any column).

 

Here's Maclean's magazine ranking of Canadian cities when compared with the national rates. Toronto is below the national average and ranked 57th. Here are the statistics particularly for homicides. Toronto's rate is higher than the national rate, but it's still 25th overall.

[shea]

I am anti EVIL GOVERNMENT PLOT talk, I don't care WHO is president. People who have been on this board a long time will back me up on that.

 

Mrs. Mungo, I was responding to another poster.

 

I can't find a non-partisan link that refutes the claim in the first link you gave (I realize your link was partisan, but I try to find non-partisan sources, especially since the report quoted Politco).

Well, I thought the Politico quote balanced things out as far as partisanship goes. :lol:

 

Darn those .gov websites!:D

 

On a serious note, I'm sure there are links available criticizing the previous president during the 2000 census. And the one before that. And the one before that. And so on....

 

Mostly, it comes down to this: the president gets to decide how some things are done and it was a non-issue for most people.

 

Obviously, for some, it was an issue.

Although I get tired of the partisan back-and-forth sometimes, I also realize it would worry me more if there was agreement on everything.

McHenry encouraged people to fill out the census, there are quotes and videos galore to show that.

 

 

 

Sure, that's true. If you can figure out how the government asking how many bathrooms you have could be used for evil, I would love to hear it. :bigear:

 

 

 

 

 

Any tool can become a weapon when in the wrong hands and with the wrong intent.

I refer back to the previous non-partisan link http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...he-us-census-b

 

.

[AngieC]

Yes they will. If you do not respond by mail, they will send a person to your home. That person will sit down with you, read the questions to you and record your verbal answers for you. The Census does not assume everyone is literate and so they send a person out to help with literacy obstacles to completing the Census.

 

Even if you state that you can read... once they are out there at your door, they WILL walk through every single question, and they WILL require an answer from you. That is their mandate. If you refuse to comply, or you make threats, or are otherwise openly hostile, they can request law enforcement assistance and will return with said law enforcement in tow, if necessary.

 

I really don't think that it's worth all the trouble it could bring to be obstinate about it. Obviously, YMMV, but before you throw down your gauntlet on this, I would suggest you take a deep breath and ask yourself if it is worth the trouble and expense it could potentially bring.

 

This was not my experience with the American Community Survey AT ALL. I firmly told the person on the phone I was not doing it (and let them know that I was well aware that no one had ever been fined for not completing it) and I have not been contacted since. I'm not sure how someone can FORCE you to comply and I'm not sure what law enforcement could do. They can't send me to jail as they're not allowed to do that.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Mrs. Mungo I suspect you're fighting a losing battle, but thank you for taking it on anyway. Maybe you'll convince someone lurking on this thread that the census isn't an evil government plot to...to...well to do whatever evil thing they're plotting do to with the information. ;)

 

:iagree::iagree:

[mcconnellboys]

I'm just trying to figure out how knowing what time your spouse goes to work and how long it takes them is useful. Do they use it to figure out roadways that need to be expanded, for instance? Or perhaps use it to do flexible lane changes at peak traffic times in a particular direction? I mean, that question might be useful in some areas, but I'm guessing that it's really of no use whatsoever in most areas.... Or am I wrong? What else could it be used for?

[nmoira]

Without checking the questionnaire:

I'm just trying to figure out how knowing what time your spouse goes to work and how long it takes them is useful.

To know how long the average commute is from each zip code (and the approximate number of commutes and during which times), with additional modal information if gathered (i.e. personal automobile, carpooling, public transit, bike, etc). This type of information is critical for transportation and infrastructure planners and engineers at the local, state, and federal level.

 

Here's an example for Portland: http://zipatlas.com/us/or/portland/zip-code-comparison/average-commute-time.htm

 

Do they use it to figure out roadways that need to be expanded, for instance? Or perhaps use it to do flexible lane changes at peak traffic times in a particular direction? I mean, that question might be useful in some areas, but I'm guessing that it's really of no use whatsoever in most areas.... Or am I wrong? What else could it be used for?

Those are examples for evaluating existing infrastructure for which better means of measuring exist. You can take point measurements using automatic traffic counters, but they tell you nothing about the origin or destination, how many people are in the car, nor how long the vehicle's commute is. You can measure the effects of congestion, but not its source. The census data is used to help plan the modification and expansion of roads, bikeways, public transit, and, among other things, to fine tune land-use zoning. Destination and origin data are particularly useful in this regard. Residents of smaller cities and satellite cities often commute to larger ones.

[Julie of KY]

I know that this week we got a letter from the census that our address has randomly been selected for a "long questionaire". We haven't received the questionaire.

[Heidi]

Without checking the questionnaire:

 

To know how long the average commute is from each zip code (and the approximate number of commutes and during which times), with additional modal information if gathered (i.e. personal automobile, carpooling, public transit, bike, etc). This type of information is critical for transportation and infrastructure planners and engineers at the local, state, and federal level.

 

Here's an example for Portland: http://zipatlas.com/us/or/portland/zip-code-comparison/average-commute-time.htm

 

Those are examples for evaluating existing infrastructure for which better means of measuring exist. You can take point measurements using automatic traffic counters, but they tell you nothing about the origin or destination, how many people are in the car, nor how long the vehicle's commute is. You can measure the effects of congestion, but not its source. The census data is used to help plan the modification and expansion of roads, bikeways, public transit, and, among other things, to fine tune land-use zoning. Destination and origin data are particularly useful in this regard. Residents of smaller cities and satellite cities often commute to larger ones.

 

 

And I agree this is a needed service. However, that they know this IN ADDITION TO my address, name, birthdate, and race, plus a million other facts about me.... makes me uncomfortable. It is not necessary to combine the census and transportation or housing surveys together. Nor do I see why it is necessary to require such information by law. It should be voluntary and anonymous, yes?

[Mallorie]

I have not read all eight pages of this thread, and likely never will. But I wanted to throw this out there to the original poster.

 

We got this a few months ago. We did NOT fill it out and return it. We got several follow up phone messages on our machine, that I did NOT return. Finally I was home to answer one of these calls, I told the lady very politely how many people live in our home and hung up. I have not heard anything since.

 

I do believe the census is constitutional. I believe that the American Community Survey is NOT.

[Momofeat]

It's been challenged in court *many* times in the courts. It is perfectly constitutional as it is actually built into the constitution.

 

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/why/constitutional.php

 

I understand why some people don't like the questions, but the census (with questions like these) *has* been challenged in court and found to be constitutional. eta: If you read the article, the Supreme Court denied petition as recently as 2002.

 

eta More on this: http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_cens.html

 

information from that site worth highlighting:

 

"A more detailed list of questions, called the American Community Survey (ACS), is sent to selected households in addition to the shorter headcount forms and in non-decennial years to allow the Bureau to do statistical sampling. According to the Census Bureau, about 3 million households are selected to receive the ACS each year." (from one of your links above)

 

This is the part that needs to be challenged. The decennial census is Constitutional. The ACS is not the census. It is not even sent at the same time as the census, but on non-decennial years. It is sent by the Census Bureau, but that does not make it okay.

[MischiefManaged]

How can the government trample anyone's rights by using a tool outlined in the constitution? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

well, considering that our Constitution and Founding Fathers supported and directly protected slavery, I can't say that I'm a big fan of our Constitution's founding principles nor that i trust their intent.

 

I will add that I still think it's a better system than most, globally speaking, but I'd prefer to see a lot changed.

 

for OP:

We didn't answer all the questions either. Got two visits, told them they'd have to press the issue legally. They never did. If they decided that questionable info from our neighbors was better, then that's their own problem. ;)

[Mallorie]

Yes, It is written right on it that it is required by law and that you are subject to a fine if you do not complete it.

 

I still believe it is unconstitutional, still refuse to fill it out, and have yet to be fined. They have overstepped their bounds by making this mandatory and they know it.

[MischiefManaged]

The census was used to locate Japanese Americans, round them up, and harrass them. It was a non-issue for most people??? That may be so, but the purpose of our Constitution was to protect our individual rights, no matter what the majority decides. We are not a democracy (majority rules), we are a republic.

I pray that MY ethnicity or religion or occupation does not one day become the target of the majority, because I'm well aware my God-given rights are no longer protected under our Almighty Government.

I believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law (the Constitution). Sadly, my government doesn't.

 

 

 

Enforcing housing codes.

 

:iagree:

 

...and that's just off the top of your head, i'm guessing....

[MischiefManaged]

I wonder how many states are losing representation in Congress because people didn't want to fill out the form?

 

 

just about everyone I've talked to has been happy to write a single number on the form and send it in. :)

[Mynyel]

Ok I am going to jump in here and ask why?

 

Why do they want to know how many toilets are in the house? They going to come put one in if I say none?

 

Sink, stove, refrigerator and running water? Really? Vacation? They need recommendation or something?

 

What is the point? I don't get it. My snarky side thinks it is just so they can say "Look at the people that don't have running water! *gasp*" Or "See America isn't doing so bad, people are going on vacation!"

 

My non-snarky side (hmm do I have one? :tongue_smilie:) just says :confused::confused:

[MischiefManaged]

Ok I am going to jump in here and ask why?

 

Why do they want to know how many toilets are in the house? They going to come put one in if I say none?

 

Sink, stove, refrigerator and running water? Really? Vacation? They need recommendation or something?

 

What is the point? I don't get it. My snarky side thinks it is just so they can say "Look at the people that don't have running water! *gasp*" Or "See America isn't doing so bad, people are going on vacation!"

 

My non-snarky side (hmm do I have one? :tongue_smilie:) just says :confused::confused:

 

Mrs. Mungo [and others] already gave some very well-reasoned practical responses. :)

 

some of us just disagree w/ even those.......:tongue_smilie:

[Mrs Mungo]

The census was used to locate Japanese Americans, round them up, and harrass them. It was a non-issue for most people??? That may be so, but the purpose of our Constitution was to protect our individual rights, no matter what the majority decides. We are not a democracy (majority rules), we are a republic.

I pray that MY ethnicity or religion or occupation does not one day become the target of the majority, because I'm well aware my God-given rights are no longer protected under our Almighty Government.

I believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law (the Constitution). Sadly, my government doesn't.

 

 

 

Enforcing housing codes.

 

I can't answer everything right now, I am on my phone, but I wanted to address this. You quote a bit of my post that was not in reference to the link regarding the Japanese internment camps. It was in reference to some blown-up nothingness that didn't even catch the interest of the mainstream press.

[Mallorie]

I'm curious what you mean with this.

 

The number of people living in residence and that's it.

[Holly IN]

I had that form as well. I just answered the number of people in my house and sent the form. A mnonth later the census worker came to my house asking if I can answer the rest of the questions. I said no way. I told her very politely that I answered what was consistutional and the law. The rest is unlawful. She said ok and left.

 

Never heard from them again.

 

Holly

[Barry Goldwater]

Yes, It is written right on it that it is required by law and that you are subject to a fine if you do not complete it.

 

I still believe it is unconstitutional, still refuse to fill it out, and have yet to be fined. They have overstepped their bounds by making this mandatory and they know it.

 

:iagree:

 

Another useful side affect of the survey is to condition people to obediently answer intrusive questions from 'authorities' no matter what.

[Heidi]

I can't answer everything right now, I am on my phone, but I wanted to address this. You quote a bit of my post that was not in reference to the link regarding the Japanese internment camps. It was in reference to some blown-up nothingness that didn't even catch the interest of the mainstream press.

 

 

Oops, you're right. sorry about that. I thought you were talking about the 2nd link about how the census info was used to round up Japanese Americans.....

Edited April 25, 2011 by hmsmith

[Mrs Mungo]

Another point? A lot of this is not *really* intrusive. If I have your address I could find most of that out through public records. That is what the census bureau does when you don't answer. They search your records, ask your neighbors, etc. Which is more invasive?

[nmoira]

 

If I have your address I could find most of that out through public records.

This is quite true. Information publicly available just from your municipal assessment and building permit offices includes the square footage of your home, yard, number of bedrooms baths, outbuilding over a certain square footage, type of furnace, roof composition, basic services, mortgage and lien holders,the property owner's name, any work permits issued, and property taxes paid (along with market and assessed value).

[Mrs Mungo]

 

Another useful side affect of the survey is to condition people to obediently answer intrusive questions from 'authorities' no matter what.

 

:rofl: You make me laugh, Barry.

[Happy]

I really appreciate all of you that didn't fill out the short form last year. Because of y'all, I got a dandy part-time job last spring doing census follow up. I made $5000 by knocking on doors and talking to some of the nicest people ever. Yeah, I got yelled at twice. One lady spit at me. But each of you helped me pay for my real estate classes/license.

 

Two things...census workers don't go away. They simply get the info from your neighbors. They are NOT allowed to look up info on the internet (at least we weren't). I don't know policy on the long form. Fill out the questions you feel most comfortable with and send it in.

 

I did research last year before taking the job about the law that forbids the government from using census information as they did in WWII. Yes, I realize it could be ignored, but someone did acknowledge using the info that way was wrong.

 

Anyway, I acknowledge privacy concerns...I just wanted to say thanks. I LOT of people made some good money because of y'all. :tongue_smilie:

[Mallorie]

I did fill out the short form and return it, and have no grudge against the basic census. It's the ACS that I did not fill out.

[Heidi]

This is quite true. Information publicly available just from your municipal assessment and building permit offices includes the square footage of your home, yard, number of bedrooms baths, outbuilding over a certain square footage, type of furnace, roof composition, basic services, mortgage and lien holders,the property owner's name, any work permits issued, and property taxes paid (along with market and assessed value).

 

Yes, but they will have to go through a lot of trouble to find out:

 

Who all lives in my house and all of their personal information, to include their mental conditon and if they can bathe themselves, if I went to work last week, how many people ride in my car, and what time I leave for work every morning.

 

That's not readily public information. That's all very private information. I would consider sharing it anonymously, but with my name, address, race and birthdate connected to it.... no way.

 

I have yet to hear an argument about how that is constitutional. Legal does not equal constitutional, btw.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, but they will have to go through a lot of trouble to find out:

 

Who all lives in my house and all of their personal information, to include their mental conditon and if they can bathe themselves, if I went to work last week, how many people ride in my car, and what time I leave for work every morning.

 

That's not readily public information. That's all very private information. I would consider sharing it anonymously, but with my name, address, race and birthdate connected to it.... no way.

 

I have yet to hear an argument about how that is constitutional. Legal does not equal constitutional, btw.

 

Did you read the case law I linked? I don't have to argue that it's constitutional, the courts did it for me. SCOTUS refused a recent case, and not all of them agree with the living constitution idea.

[Heidi]

Did you read the case law I linked? I don't have to argue that it's constitutional, the courts did it for me. SCOTUS refused a recent case, and not all of them agree with the living constitution idea.

 

No, I've only read the constitution. Article 1, Section 2, and Amendment IV. Then I compared it to the American Community Survey and came to the conclusion on my own that it's unconstitutional.

 

Again, to me at least, legal doesn't equal constitutional. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. :)

[nmoira]

I was responding to a particular subthread, but am happy to take step back.

 

Yes, but they will have to go through a lot of trouble to find out:

 

Who all lives in my house and all of their personal information, to include their mental conditon and if they can bathe themselves, if I went to work last week, how many people ride in my car, and what time I leave for work every morning.

Yes, that's the point. This type of aggregated information is laborious and expensive to gather. As a taxpayer I am happy that as much of the information gathering is done by one agency which makes data available to all levels of government, scholars, students, researchers, and individual citizens. You want to go through these point-by-point as to how any why that information can be useful aggregated data for these people and agencies to have access to? That might be an interesting "class" project. :001_smile:

 

That's not readily public information. That's all very private information. I would consider sharing it anonymously, but with my name, address, race and birthdate connected to it.... no way.

Your reticence about sharing whether an adult in your home needs a full or part time caregiver, is someone else's heartfelt relief at finding more local and targeted support services.

 

I have yet to hear an argument about how that is constitutional. Legal does not equal constitutional, btw.

:confused:

I'm not touching this one.

[Heidi]

I was responding to a particular subthread, but am happy to take step back.

 

Yes, that's the point. This type of aggregated information is laborious and expensive to gather. As a taxpayer I am happy that as much of the information gathering is done by one agency which makes data available to all levels of government, scholars, students, researchers, and individual citizens. You want to go through these point-by-point as to how any why that information can be useful aggregated data for these people and agencies to have access to? That might be an interesting "class" project. :001_smile:

 

Your reticence about sharing whether an adult in your home needs a full or part time caregiver, is someone else's heartfelt relief at finding more local and targeted support services.

 

:confused:

I'm not touching this one.

 

Now see, there are so many WILLING people to give up this information. Too bad it's not a voluntary survey, you know?

 

Something in the mail that says, "If you would like to help out your community, please fill out the following information." NOT "Fill it out or we will come and hunt you down and fine you $5000 if you don't comply."

 

Why can't they do that I wonder?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

No, I've only read the constitution. Article 1, Section 2, and Amendment IV. Then I compared it to the American Community Survey and came to the conclusion on my own that it's unconstitutional.

 

Again, to me at least, legal doesn't equal constitutional. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. :)

 

Yes but women were not allowed the vote either and blacks were given a lesser status by the constitution so honestly the argument about it is not in the constitution does not mean much to me since IMHO it is a living document and thank God for that:).

 

My 2 cents:)

[nmoira]

Now see, there are so many WILLING people to give up this information. Too bad it's not a voluntary survey, you know?

 

Something in the mail that says, "If you would like to help out your community, please fill out the following information." NOT "Fill it out or we will come and hunt you down and fine you $5000 if you don't comply."

 

Why can't they do that I wonder?

Sample bias: Self-selected samples are not representative of the population. It's the reason why Internet polls are bogus.

[Mrs Mungo]

No, I've only read the constitution. Article 1, Section 2, and Amendment IV. Then I compared it to the American Community Survey and came to the conclusion on my own that it's unconstitutional.

 

Again, to me at least, legal doesn't equal constitutional. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. :)

 

So, you believe you know better about James Madison's intent than:

 

1. Constitutional law experts (it doesn't exist in a vacuum)

2. SCOTUS

3. James Madison

 

It is not my opinion against your opinion. It is your opinion against those listed above.

[Mrs Mungo]

Sample bias: Self-selected samples are not representative of the population. It's the reason why Internet polls are bogus.

 

I agree, and I made a c in statistics. :tongue_smilie: