How sex offenders target/identify their victims

[Ottakee]

If I could delete this thread I would. I worded the subject as well.

 

I am NOT saying that any victim "deserves" it or was "asking" for it. We have had children in our homes that were victimized while infants/toddlers and I know this can extend up to the elderly, special needs, etc.

 

I still do stand by my thoughts that how you dress DOES affect how men/teens view you and where their thoughts go. They do need to work on controlling their thoughts but on the flip side, I don't want my daughters to be the ones tempting them either.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Ottakee

[Julie in CA]

How very un-PC of you to say so! ;)

I'm still amazed that people have to be told this (but they do!).

While it's currently popular to say, "don't blame the victim", the fact remains that people (some of whom are predators) *do* judge us by how we choose to appear to others. It shouldn't surprise anyone that it's not a wise idea to advertise our sexuality to the general public, but unfortunately, there are those who bury their heads in the sand believing that just because it "shouldn't be that way", it isn't.

 

ETA: Went away from the computer yesterday and came back today to many, many comments in this thread. There's a couple of things I wanted to respond to.

 

It's not comments from convicts that have convinced me that dressing in a provocative way in public is a dangerous thing to do--it's personal experience. Sure, there are other motivations for rapists (anger, etc.), but men are visual creatures, and if I don't want attention that's centered on sex, then I'm not going to highlight my sexual attributes in public. While dressing modestly is not even close to being a sure ticket for avoiding rape, in my opinion it's about reducing the odds wherever I can. It's the reason I teach my girls how to defend themselves, it's the reason I teach them to go in groups whenever possible, and it's also the reason I teach them that what's valuable about them is not so much their sex appeal, but their character. I cannot guarantee they won't fall victim to a predator at some point (as I did), but teaching them to not put their body on display falls into the same category as wearing seat belts, staying awake and alert while in the car, and being vigilant about defensive driving during holidays where lots of folks tend to drink too much, to reduce the odds of an accident. Yes, an accident can still happen because of the choices and mistakes of others, but I have them do all that they can to prevent it on their part.

 

The comment about teaching our sons seems...strange. I don't think that most sexual offenders commit their heinous acts because they haven't been educated in the fact that it's wrong. :confused:

 

Edited again: I also have the girls run with our big dog, teach them to avoid secluded areas, and stay where it's well-lit. Is that different than telling them to cover up the parts they don't want lots of attention paid to by strangers? It's all about reducing the odds (within reason).

Edited April 16, 2011 by Julie in CA

[kalanamak]

T

 

He said that the guys will talk freely about how they identify their victims (this is not incest/relationship offenses but more stranger ones). The guys talk about how those who have tight clothes, plunging necklines with lots of cleavage, short skirts/shorts, writing on the butt, etc. tend to attract their attention and then they focus on those women/girls while those more modestly dressed don't get their attention as much.

.

 

Well, this could also be part of their "it wasn't my fault, it was her fault" mentality i.e. excuses. Or perhaps they've learned they can get, as my mother would have said, "fresher" with girls my mother would have called "loud".

 

IME, sex offenders are opportunists, hence the common victim being a relative. You are around them and have access to them. I once had a 90 year old victim whose rapist was her grandson.

[Ottakee]

I am not very politically correct but I do want to protect my children and hope other parents will see the same thing.

 

Our 15dd is esp. vulnerable as she has special needs so doesn't always "get" everything but yet she is a very cute, nice figured petite thing.

 

My husband said this morning that he wishes they had a "scared straight" (that program that used to try to keep teens out of jail) for young girls/woman that explained very bluntly just what these predators are thinking and how to handle it.

 

A book that I know is a bit controversial is For Women Only http://www.amazon.com/Women-Only-about-Inner-Lives/dp/1590523172/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1302876937&sr=1-1 and the teen version http://www.amazon.com/Young-Women-Only-About-Think/dp/1590526503/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1302876937&sr=1-5 For Young Woman Only but these books talk about it just in the context of everyday guys, not the predators. I honestly don't think many girls really realize what they are advertising to the men by their dress.

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, well prisoners aren't exactly known for deep insight into their actions, are they? And for the record, both my mom and step father have worked in maximum security prisons for 30 years each. I just say that so that you don't think I have any idea of what a prison or prisoners are like. I also worked as an advocate for sexually abused children for 10 years.

 

The only problem with what you are saying is that the vast, vast, vast majority of people who are sexually assaulted know the person who assaulted them in an intimate fashion. Step fathers, brothers, uncles, coaches, boyfriend of sister, all are major offenders against girls and women. The very people who are supposed to protect them are the most likely to hurt girls and women.

 

The vast majority of sexual assaults are to victims (male and female) under the age of 18, with the average age being 11. When you speak of offenders seeing their victims as 'sexy' that speaks more to their sickness than the state of dress of the victim.

 

Do you really think prisoners are going to say anything to each other than 'she was hot and she was asking for it. The judge said it was rape but she wanted it.'! It's all a variation of 'it's not my fault'

 

People who prey on others look for those they can control, for those who seem vulnerable. They don't assault because they want to have sex. They assault because that person stops being a person, they become a means to an end.

 

Old women, babies, little boys and girls, men, women in comas, kids in wheelchairs, all are subject to sexual assault. The stereotype of the 'sexy woman in high heels and low cut shirt' being the victim just doesn't match the reality. If that were the case, don't you think we would have figured that out by now. Women have been asking men not to sexually assault them and their children for many thousands of years. If it were JUST clothing, well, one would thing that sort of thing would catch on.

[Plucky]

I think it may be less sexual based, and more a sign of low self-esteem. Abusers definitely look for low self-esteem.

[Mrs Mungo]

Well, this could also be part of their "it wasn't my fault, it was her fault" mentality i.e. excuses. Or perhaps they've learned they can get, as my mother would have said, "fresher" with girls my mother would have called "loud".

 

IME, sex offenders are opportunists, hence the common victim being a relative. You are around them and have access to them.

 

:iagree:

 

I think listening to the excuses of convicted sex offenders is giving them too much credit. Would you place any kind of blame on a girl or her parents if she was chosen because her skirt (even if it was Duggar-style) gave him easy access?

 

Did you all see the Oprah (this was years and years ago) with a jogger who was snatched off a running trail and forced into a porta-potty? She ran up the wall of it, knocked it over and got away. Did he choose her because she was wearing shorts and she was running? Was her bounce too much for him to handle? No, she was *there* and he was waiting for someone to come along. Might *he* claim she enticed him? I'm sure he might.

 

It's an *excuse* and nothing more.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[Parrothead]

Yeah, well prisoners aren't exactly known for deep insight into their actions, are they? And for the record, both my mom and step father have worked in maximum security prisons for 30 years each. I just say that so that you don't think I have any idea of what a prison or prisoners are like. I also worked as an advocate for sexually abused children for 10 years.

 

The only problem with what you are saying is that the vast, vast, vast majority of people who are sexually assaulted know the person who assaulted them in an intimate fashion. Step fathers, brothers, uncles, coaches, boyfriend of sister, all are major offenders against girls and women. The very people who are supposed to protect them are the most likely to hurt girls and women.

 

The vast majority of sexual assaults are to victims (male and female) under the age of 18, with the average age being 11. When you speak of offenders seeing their victims as 'sexy' that speaks more to their sickness than the state of dress of the victim.

 

Do you really think prisoners are going to say anything to each other than 'she was hot and she was asking for it. The judge said it was rape but she wanted it.'! It's all a variation of 'it's not my fault'

 

People who prey on others look for those they can control, for those who seem vulnerable. They don't assault because they want to have sex. They assault because that person stops being a person, they become a means to an end.

 

Old women, babies, little boys and girls, men, women in comas, kids in wheelchairs, all are subject to sexual assault. The stereotype of the 'sexy woman in high heels and low cut shirt' being the victim just doesn't match the reality. If that were the case, don't you think we would have figured that out by now. Women have been asking men not to sexually assault them and their children for many thousands of years. If it were JUST clothing, well, one would thing that sort of thing would catch on.

:iagree:Well said. As a police officer I sat in the ER with women who were sexually assaulted and let me tell you it wasn't about how they were dressed.

[HeidiKC]

This is a spin off from the writing on the butt thread.

 

 

Hmmm....looks like I missed a good one.

[HeidiKC]

Did you all see the Oprah (this was years and years ago) with a jogger who was snatched off a running trail and forced into a porta-potty? She ran up the wall of it, knocked it over and got away.

 

 

What??? I know this is getting off-topic...but do you mean she ran up the wall of it INSIDE. Wow. That's one fighting gal!

[MaryCatherine]

My dd was 7. It has nothing to do with how they're dressed.

[msjones]

I was sexually assaulted at gunpoint by a stranger in the middle of the day. I was at work. I was wearing loose fitting, wide-leg jeans, a regular t-shirt, a blazer and flats.

 

Prior to the attack, I never wore the type of clothes mentioned in the OP's post -- plunging, tight, short -- ever.

 

The detectives on the case tell me that men look for victims who are alone and defenseless.

 

I see your point, and don't doubt that your husband hears these 'men' discussing women in this way. However, it's not that simple. I wish it were.

[Mrs Mungo]

A book that I know is a bit controversial is For Women Only http://www.amazon.com/Women-Only-about-Inner-Lives/dp/1590523172/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1302876937&sr=1-1 and the teen version http://www.amazon.com/Young-Women-Only-About-Think/dp/1590526503/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1302876937&sr=1-5 For Young Woman Only but these books talk about it just in the context of everyday guys, not the predators. I honestly don't think many girls really realize what they are advertising to the men by their dress.

 

Have you looked at the modesty survey website? Zipping a form fitting jacket is immodest. Workout clothes? Not okay. Dance clothes worn in a performance? Not okay. Bending over? Not okay if they can look down your shirt (according to *89%*). Swimsuit? Not okay.

 

Maybe young men need to be taught that women are not there strictly for their personal perusal and they should keep their eyes to themselves if they can't control their thoughts better than that.

[sarawatsonim]

My brother was sexually assaulted by a substitute gym teacher in grade school. Should he maybe have worn track pants instead of gym shorts? This kind of thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The worse part of it is the victims end up feeling they are to blame, and this thought process doesn't help. Why would believe anything that comes out of the mouths of men like that?

Edited April 15, 2011 by sarawatsonim

[Mrs Mungo]

What??? I know this is getting off-topic...but do you mean she ran up the wall of it INSIDE. Wow. That's one fighting gal!

 

Yes! She had seen Gavin de Becker on Oprah and freaked out when she realized she was in a second location.

[smrtmama]

What you're saying completely goes against all the available statistics and psychological profiling. Read any of the data out there. Read any of the hundreds of books on the psychology of rapists.

 

It's not even remotely accurate. It's also insulting. Women don't get raped because they're wearing short skirts. Women get raped because someone rapes them. Rapists aren't triggered by what a woman wears. Rapists don't single you out by what you wear. Rapists look for opportunity, which can happen with any one.

 

Your husband is putting stock in "she asked for it" claims by criminals and you are sharing it because it provides confirmation bias for what you already believe: that women dressing in revealing clothing are somehow "asking" for it, while "modestly" dressed women are safe.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree:

 

I think listening to the excuses of convicted sex offenders is giving them too much credit. Would you place any kind of blame on a girl or her parents if she was chosen because her skirt (even if it was Duggar-style) gave him easy access?

 

Did you all see the Oprah (this was years and years ago) with a jogger who was snatched off a running trail and forced into a porta-potty? She ran up the wall of it, knocked it over and got away. Did he choose her because she was wearing shorts and she was running? Were her bounce too much for him to handle? No, she was *there* and he was waiting for someone to come along. Might *he* claim she enticed him? I'm sure he might.

 

It's an *excuse* and nothing more.

 

:iagree: Now I believe in dressing fairly modestly for one's own dignity and good taste. Plus, as dh says it is often sexier to leave more to the imagination;)

 

As for predators I think they will go after anyone and that includes the elderly, nuns, and children so I blame the predator and not the victim.

 

 

I think many clothes today are over-sexualized IMHO and distasteful IMO:( I think such clothes do not serve women well in that they only emphasize a woman's sexual nature and not her self worth and esteem. Too many people see women as only objects to be desired and not as full humans:(.

[staceyobu]

Have you looked at the modesty survey website? Zipping a form fitting jacket is immodest. Workout clothes? Not okay. Dance clothes worn in a performance? Not okay. Bending over? Not okay if they can look down your shirt (according to *89%*). Swimsuit? Not okay.

 

Maybe young men need to be taught that women are not there strictly for their personal perusal and they should keep their eyes to themselves if they can't control their thoughts better than that.

 

This just makes me think that in some countries a woman wearing capris and a short sleeve shirt would be enough for men to think she was advertising herself. Which leads me to believe that this train of thinking always ends with women wearing burqas. Maybe that is an overstatement... but I'm not sure that it is.

[smrtmama]

This just makes me think that in some countries a woman wearing capris and a short sleeve shirt would be enough for men to think she was advertising herself. Which leads me to believe that this train of thinking always ends with women wearing burqas. Maybe that is an overstatement... but I'm not sure that it is.

 

And women wearing burquas are still sexually assaulted at a high rate, because they're in a culture where women are less-than full humans.

 

NOT ABOUT THE CLOTHES, ABOUT THE CRIMINAL.

 

Stop telling your daughters to dress modestly to avoid rape. Start teaching your sons not to rape.

[Parrothead]

What you're saying completely goes against all the available statistics and psychological profiling. Read any of the data out there. Read any of the hundreds of books on the psychology of rapists.

 

It's not even remotely accurate. It's also insulting. Women don't get raped because they're wearing short skirts. Women get raped because someone rapes them. Rapists aren't triggered by what a woman wears. Rapists don't single you out by what you wear. Rapists look for opportunity, which can happen with any one.

 

Your husband is putting stock in "she asked for it" claims by criminals and you are sharing it because it provides confirmation bias for what you already believe: that women dressing in revealing clothing are somehow "asking" for it, while "modestly" dressed women are safe.

:iagree: Women aren't told get a security officer to walk them to their car if they are alone at night because they are dressed immodestly.

 

(Hey smrtmama, nice to see you around again.)

[Imprimis]

What you're saying completely goes against all the available statistics and psychological profiling. Read any of the data out there. Read any of the hundreds of books on the psychology of rapists.

 

It's not even remotely accurate. It's also insulting. Women don't get raped because they're wearing short skirts. Women get raped because someone rapes them. Rapists aren't triggered by what a woman wears. Rapists don't single you out by what you wear. Rapists look for opportunity, which can happen with any one.

 

Your husband is putting stock in "she asked for it" claims by criminals and you are sharing it because it provides confirmation bias for what you already believe: that women dressing in revealing clothing are somehow "asking" for it, while "modestly" dressed women are safe.

 

Thank you. I agree with every word here.

[kalanamak]

I honestly don't think many girls really realize what they are advertising to the men by their dress.

 

One year, when I was single and 31, I put an effort into my looks. I lost those pesky last 8 lbs, and was 5' 6" and 119 lbs, I wore non-oversized jeans (I thought them "tight" but they were nothing like what tight is today), made sure my hair was trimmed regularly, and actually thought about my clothes for the first time in my life. I, after a depressing career of attracting loser guys, decided to try something different. Well .... in those 6 months I got more attention from stranger men than the rest of my life combined. Many of them were slumpier and even bigger losers than those I'd met before (at least, if I was attracting clinging energy-sucking mother seekers, I'd been attracting intelLECTual clinging energy-sucking motherseekes). Comments as I walked by, seats given up for me on the subway, unwanted gropes as I left the library late at night.

 

Unless a girl (to again quote my mother) has the "face of like the backside of a mud fence", dressing in a manner to get the attention of men WILL get the attention of men and I just don't know how they would be unaware of it, even at 12. The stares, the comments, the sudden look in the eyes from a complete stranger. However, most men who are "expressing their pleasure" are NOT rapists or offenders. I didn't raped, I got "aggressively flirted with". They didn't want to hurt me, they wanted to have "a trip to the moon with glossimar wings".

 

Dear Oak-- while I think "sexy dressing" is a mistake on its own (I believe a person is best served by being know their their mind and heart, not their butt), and it is natural to reach for what we can in the way of protection, vigilance is more crucial than clothes. We recently had a heartbreaking situation of a childlike late teen who went on foot a few blocks to her relatives house, something she'd been doing for years, and a neighborhood boy, a senior, who'd never been in any kind of trouble at all lured her into the woods and raped and killed her. She was properly dressed and had her big bulking "girls" bike. Not a Lolita. And for her parents, it is all the heart break between encouraging independence and guarding her person. We all face it, but those whose judgment is hindered are just all the more vulnerable. :grouphug:

Edited April 15, 2011 by kalanamak

[Mrs Mungo]

This just makes me think that in some countries a woman wearing capris and a short sleeve shirt would be enough for men to think she was advertising herself. Which leads me to believe that this train of thinking always ends with women wearing burqas. Maybe that is an overstatement... but I'm not sure that it is.

 

I don't think it is. People should read how loose women are described in a Victorian novel. Elizabeth Cady Stanton's bloomers were so shocking and raised such a stir that she eventually went back to the accepted restrictive corset.

[BlsdMama]

I think it depends on the type of attacker you're thinking of...

 

In the case of date rape, perhaps you're right....

In the terms of pedophiles, I think you're dead wrong. They seek a weak victim - someone co-dependent or without close emotional adult relationships, someone they can prey on.

 

In the terms of violent rapists who just hate women in general, they have random victims - breaking into a house, etc.

[msjones]

What you're saying completely goes against all the available statistics and psychological profiling. Read any of the data out there. Read any of the hundreds of books on the psychology of rapists.

 

It's not even remotely accurate. It's also insulting. Women don't get raped because they're wearing short skirts. Women get raped because someone rapes them. Rapists aren't triggered by what a woman wears. Rapists don't single you out by what you wear. Rapists look for opportunity, which can happen with any one.

 

Your husband is putting stock in "she asked for it" claims by criminals and you are sharing it because it provides confirmation bias for what you already believe: that women dressing in revealing clothing are somehow "asking" for it, while "modestly" dressed women are safe.

 

Thank you for this. I was so upset when I wrote my initial response that I couldn't put my thoughts together too well. You said it perfectly.

[DarlaS]

I think it may be less sexual based, and more a sign of low self-esteem. Abusers definitely look for low self-esteem.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I wouldn't want them noticing my daughter (Eeewww!), even if they are statistically more likely to choose someone else. I don't want anyone thinking of her that way.

[Plucky]

I think it depends on the type of attacker you're thinking of...

 

In the case of date rape, perhaps you're right....

In the terms of pedophiles, I think you're dead wrong. They seek a weak victim - someone co-dependent or without close emotional adult relationships, someone they can prey on.

 

In the terms of violent rapists who just hate women in general, they have random victims - breaking into a house, etc.

 

Very true. I think people were think of the different kinds of assault and sex offenders. I do not think any woman asks for it. I barely escaped a date rape myself when I was 21.

[msjones]

I think it depends on the type of attacker you're thinking of...

 

In the case of date rape, perhaps you're right....

In the terms of pedophiles, I think you're dead wrong. They seek a weak victim - someone co-dependent or without close emotional adult relationships, someone they can prey on.

 

In the terms of violent rapists who just hate women in general, they have random victims - breaking into a house, etc.

 

The OP said she was referring to rape by a stranger.

[smrtmama]

:iagree: Women aren't told get a security officer to walk them to their car if they are alone at night because they are dressed immodestly.

 

(Hey smrtmama, nice to see you around again.)

 

I'm not really back. Patchfire links me to posts every once in a while and I may or may not comment. I can't stand the woman-hating, gay-bashing, non-Xtian bashing that certain members of this board dish out on a regular basis.

 

I will, however, pipe up to say that my husband has put in an extensive study on this topic, because getting on to the Crimes Against Persons (ie. sexual assault) or Crimes Against Children unit is one of his professional goals. We have shelves full of books on rape psychology, each with different ideas as to the underlying problem with rapists and what can be done, culturally, to minimize rape, but all with the same loud theme -- rape has nothing to do with how you dress, how "modest" or "humble" you appear, whether or not you've had sex before, whether or not you're a "good" girl.

[8circles]

Stop telling your daughters to dress modestly to avoid rape. Start teaching your sons not to rape.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I would agree with this a million times if I could. There is value in modesty but this is a totally separate issue. It's just so insulting that the excuses given by criminals of this sort would be given any credence whatsoever.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have to say that I am both impressed and relieved by the responses on this topic. Great job everyone! Everything I would say has already been said. Really, really well, I might add. Great thread!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Have you looked at the modesty survey website? Zipping a form fitting jacket is immodest. Workout clothes? Not okay. Dance clothes worn in a performance? Not okay. Bending over? Not okay if they can look down your shirt (according to *89%*). Swimsuit? Not okay.

 

Maybe young men need to be taught that women are not there strictly for their personal perusal and they should keep their eyes to themselves if they can't control their thoughts better than that.

 

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

And women wearing burquas are still sexually assaulted at a high rate, because they're in a culture where women are less-than full humans.

 

 

BTW, countries where women wear burguas or other heavy veiling tend to be countries where women are regularly and almost continually physically groped on the street; where they are considered 'fair game'. They are also, not coincidentally, countries where women tend to have far fewer rights than men.

 

Generally physical attacks on women are exercises of power over the vulnerable and/or oppressed.

[Ibbygirl]

My dd was 7. It has nothing to do with how they're dressed.

 

I was sexually assaulted at gunpoint by a stranger in the middle of the day. I was at work. I was wearing loose fitting, wide-leg jeans, a regular t-shirt, a blazer and flats.

 

Prior to the attack, I never wore the type of clothes mentioned in the OP's post -- plunging, tight, short -- ever.

 

The detectives on the case tell me that men look for victims who are alone and defenseless.

 

I see your point, and don't doubt that your husband hears these 'men' discussing women in this way. However, it's not that simple. I wish it were.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I'm so sorry for you both. :crying:

[Carol in Cal.]

If I could delete this thread I would. I worded the subject as well.

 

I am NOT saying that any victim "deserves" it or was "asking" for it. We have had children in our homes that were victimized while infants/toddlers and I know this can extend up to the elderly, special needs, etc.

 

I still do stand by my thoughts that how you dress DOES affect how men/teens view you and where their thoughts go. They do need to work on controlling their thoughts but on the flip side, I don't want my daughters to be the ones tempting them either.

 

Ottakee, I wish your original post was back, simply because it contains some very interesting raw data. We disagree on the interpretation of it, but I was glad to see it anyway.

 

And I hope that the thread stays up because the posts in it are so good. Someone might really need to hear this stuff, and it's great if they can see it here.

[KnitWit]

I'm not really back. Patchfire links me to posts every once in a while and I may or may not comment. I can't stand the woman-hating, gay-bashing, non-Xtian bashing that certain members of this board dish out on a regular basis.

 

I will, however, pipe up to say that my husband has put in an extensive study on this topic, because getting on to the Crimes Against Persons (ie. sexual assault) or Crimes Against Children unit is one of his professional goals. We have shelves full of books on rape psychology, each with different ideas as to the underlying problem with rapists and what can be done, culturally, to minimize rape, but all with the same loud theme -- rape has nothing to do with how you dress, how "modest" or "humble" you appear, whether or not you've had sex before, whether or not you're a "good" girl.

 

Have a friend who serves on CAC and I completely agree with every single word you have said.

[[email protected]]

I can make this happen if you like.

 

If I could delete this thread I would. I worded the subject as well.

 

I am NOT saying that any victim "deserves" it or was "asking" for it. We have had children in our homes that were victimized while infants/toddlers and I know this can extend up to the elderly, special needs, etc.

 

I still do stand by my thoughts that how you dress DOES affect how men/teens view you and where their thoughts go. They do need to work on controlling their thoughts but on the flip side, I don't want my daughters to be the ones tempting them either.

Edited April 15, 2011 by WTM Moderator

[kalanamak]

 

I am NOT saying that any victim "deserves" it or was "asking" for it. We have had children in our homes that were victimized while infants/toddlers and I know this can extend up to the elderly, special needs, etc.

 

 

 

I certainly never thought you did. I just think it is wishful thinking to think dress will keep you safe.

[Mrs Mungo]

And I hope that the thread stays up because the posts in it are so good. Someone might really need to hear this stuff, and it's great if they can see it here.

 

I certainly never thought you did. I just think it is wishful thinking to think dress will keep you safe.

 

:iagree: on both counts.

[msjones]

It's just so insulting that the excuses given by criminals of this sort would be given any credence whatsoever.

 

Well said.

[Parrothead]

If I could delete this thread I would. I worded the subject as well.

 

I am NOT saying that any victim "deserves" it or was "asking" for it. We have had children in our homes that were victimized while infants/toddlers and I know this can extend up to the elderly, special needs, etc.

 

I still do stand by my thoughts that how you dress DOES affect how men/teens view you and where their thoughts go. They do need to work on controlling their thoughts but on the flip side, I don't want my daughters to be the ones tempting them either.

I hope you don't have it deleted.

 

While modesty has its place women need to know that dressing like Donna Reed won't keep them safe from attack.

 

Yes, modestly dressed young women have an air of class. Yes, modestly dressed women are often given more respect. But that won't stop a determined sexual offender.

 

Getting girls, young women and more mature women tools to defend themselves is very important. Teaching them to go with their intuition is very important. Teaching them that not all pervs look or act like scumbags is important.

 

Maybe this thread didn't go the way you intended. But maybe it can be used to educate moms on ways to protect their daughters (and their sons because women aren't the only ones who are sexually assaulted.).

[Ottakee]

I can make this happen if you like.

 

You can if you want. I stand by what the inmates are saying about how they view things.

 

I just don't want anyone to think that I feel that the victim is ever at fault in these situations.

[kalanamak]

 

I just don't want anyone to think that I feel that the victim is ever at fault in these situations.

 

A spit in the eye to anyone who would think such a thing of you.

[Mrs Mungo]

Getting girls, young women and more mature women tools to defend themselves is very important. Teaching them to go with their intuition is very important. Teaching them that not all pervs look or act like scumbags is important.

 

 

I agree, 1000 percent. These things cannot be overstated. Getting young men to see that pushing when a girl says no *is not okay* is another piece of this.

[msjones]

 

I will, however, pipe up to say that my husband has put in an extensive study on this topic, because getting on to the Crimes Against Persons (ie. sexual assault) or Crimes Against Children unit is one of his professional goals.

 

I'm in the middle of the case against the man who attacked me. I am so grateful for the detectives, the police officers, the victim advocate, and the prosecutor on the case. I am thankful and relieved that intelligent, compassionate people are working on the case. They are making a hard situation go about as well as it could.

 

I am so thankful for officers like your husband. I hope you'll pass that on to him.

[Carol in Cal.]

You can if you want. I stand by what the inmates are saying about how they view things.

 

I just don't want anyone to think that I feel that the victim is ever at fault in these situations.

 

 

Ottakee, I hope you put your old OP back so others can see what the inmates say.

 

ITA that the victim is not at fault.

 

I'm glad you started this thread.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm in the middle of the case against the man who attacked me. I am so grateful for the detectives, the police officers, the victim advocate, and the prosecutor on the case. I am thankful and relieved that intelligent, compassionate people are working on the case. They are making a hard situation go about as well as it could.

 

I am so thankful for officers like your husband. I hope you'll pass that on to him.

 

I hope you get him locked up for a long time. You're very courageous.

[redsquirrel]

You can if you want. I stand by what the inmates are saying about how they view things.

 

I just don't want anyone to think that I feel that the victim is ever at fault in these situations.

 

One of the things that my mom was taught when she went to work in the prison was to NEVER listen to inmates or take them seriously. She was given all sort of warnings about their propensity to brag, to minimize, to manipulate, to twist the truth, to victim blame. I am not sure how long your husband has been a CO but he needs to think about what it is doing to his brain and who he is letting win. He is making himself vulnerable mentally.

 

People who assault others are very, very good at making themselves the victim. I once sat in court and listened to a guy talk about how he was 'seduced' by a four year old. See, she was so sexy, dancing around in her shorts and tshirt. She wiggled her bottom around. Is that four year old to blame? When does it cross the line? When a 9 year old dances? An 11 year old? A 15 year old? When exactly do we tell our daughters to stop dancing in the privacy of their own homes because it means they might get raped?

 

I just hear my step-father right now. "you listen to those idiots? You look to them for information? They are sick! Lie down with dogs and get fleas. You gotta be strong. You can't let them in." and on and on he can go.....

[KnitWit]

I know a former youth pastor who went to prison for bothering *boys*. In his testimony, he said that he never touched any of them in a way that was not loving. blech. But a perfect example of how perps are TWISTED and you should NOT believe what they say.

[redsquirrel]

and you know, the word 'tempted' has been used a lot here.

 

Good men don't get 'tempted' to rape anyone. It's not something that happens by accident. It's not like they are walking along and suddenly think 'hey, that woman is just sooooo tempting I must leave behind all notions of human decency" It's not like you fall down a hole in the sidewalk and mistakenly rape someone.

 

And men who do assault and rape, they don't need a reason. If that is how you see other people, as vessels for your ugliness and desire to hurt then what you are looking for is vulnerability and ease of access. You might need an excuse to keep on living your life, and that excuse might look like "she was just so hot, what could I do" but a lie.