pqr Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/24/providence-plans-to-pink-slip-all-teachers/?test=latestnews Any N England hsers have more on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 this is crazy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It sounds like they are covering their rears. They don't know how many they will have to lay off, so they sent the warnings out to everyone so that, when the time comes, they can lay off as many as necessary without getting into legal trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why do I have the feeling that I saw a scenario like this before? I tried searching these boards (there was a bit discussion about it - maybe a year or so ago?) but didn't find anything. Maybe it was another state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It sounds like they are covering their rears. They don't know how many they will have to lay off, so they sent the warnings out to everyone so that, when the time comes, they can lay off as many as necessary without getting into legal trouble. :iagree: Why do I have the feeling that I saw a scenario like this before? I tried searching these boards (there was a bit discussion about it - maybe a year or so ago?) but didn't find anything. Maybe it was another state? Was it this? http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=7332173 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It sounds like they are covering their rears. They don't know how many they will have to lay off, so they sent the warnings out to everyone so that, when the time comes, they can lay off as many as necessary without getting into legal trouble. :iagree: They probably haven't completely finished the budget yet, and are trying to head off the unions by saying, "We warned you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Most districts have deadlines for giving out pink slips and "intents to return". In my husband's district the deadline is the end of this month. If the district really has no clue what its budget will be like next year (very possible considering how screwed up state budgets are right now), this may be their only legal option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Jean, that happened recently in Kansas City, Missouri. I honestly can't tell you about how the teachers eventually fared, but many schools did close for the 2010-2011 school year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It happened here once on not quite as grand of a scale. 10 teachers were pink slipped by March 1st. On June 1st, when they had a much better idea what was really going on budget wise and how many k'ers would be returning, plus whether or not they would be continuing their alternative ed program for over 16's that were in trouble with the law, they ended up hiring all of them back. It was a union thing. The contract required them to give notice at that time or they couldn't let someone go even if they didn't need them or have the funding for their program. Given the economic climate of the country, it's quite possible that though disturbing, there isn't any choice in the matter for the school district. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Most districts have deadlines for giving out pink slips and "intents to return". In my husband's district the deadline is the end of this month. If the district really has no clue what its budget will be like next year (very possible considering how screwed up state budgets are right now), this may be their only legal option. :iagree: Dh's district has informed all teachers that only those who have been w/ the district for 3 yrs or more, will have contracts renewed next month. All others won't find out until May/June, when the district knows which teachers are leaving/retiring. The ones that are being renewed however won't know where/what they are teaching until later. Only that they will have a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 :iagree: Dh's district has informed all teachers that only those who have been w/ the district for 3 yrs or more, will have contracts renewed next month. All others won't find out until May/June, when the district knows which teachers are leaving/retiring. The ones that are being renewed however won't know where/what they are teaching until later. Only that they will have a job. That has pretty much become the routine in my husband's district as well. Part of the problem is that they don't know who is going to retire until after this deadline. So they are sending out pink slips to everyone who isn't tenured, hoping that they get enough teachers retiring that they don't have to actually fire all those newbie teachers. Then, of course, you have the issues with the CA state budget. Classroom sizes are increasing which means more teachers get pink slipped. Grant money is gone which means teachers get pink slipped. Classrooms are not being cleaned as often so janitors are being pink slipped. The only ones that never gets pink slipped at a school district are the administrators and paper-pushers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why do I have the feeling that I saw a scenario like this before? I tried searching these boards (there was a bit discussion about it - maybe a year or so ago?) but didn't find anything. Maybe it was another state? I remember it too. I know that this a tactic used in unions, to justify the termination of employees that would other wise be untouchable. Legally they can terminate all employees, then rehire/change contracts/benefits/pay scale/position...pretty much anything they want. It is a tactic. A strong and effective one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 ... The only ones that never gets pink slipped at a school district are the administrators and paper-pushers. Aye, there's the rub. Our local school districts are all in the slash mode, but when I pull up the online budget for our district, I see it VERY top heavy with administrators and tech support personnel. (And sports. But that's a whole 'nother thread.:glare:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Aye, there's the rub. Our local school districts are all in the slash mode, but when I pull up the online budget for our district, I see it VERY top heavy with administrators and tech support personnel. (And sports. But that's a whole 'nother thread.:glare:) Sports programs often bring money into the school. I totally understand why people get disgruntled over the emphasis on sports (I lettered in marching band, lol), but it is true that sports tend to bring money back to the school in other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 There's talk of laying off 400 teachers and closing some schools in Salem Oregon for 2011/12 http://www.mycentraloregon.com/news/state/ap/592974/SalemKeizer-may-close-schools-lay-off-teachers.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sports programs often bring money into the school. I totally understand why people get disgruntled over the emphasis on sports (I lettered in marching band, lol), but it is true that sports tend to bring money back to the school in other ways. Do you have any references for this? It's something that I've always wondered about. I realize that the big sports programs (like football and basketball) often bring in gate revenues that are used to support other sports programs. But I've never seen a breakdown that considered things like the cost of stadiums, salaries of coaches who were employed as teachers but who were mostly coaches, cost of busing students to competitions, etc. I have seen references to a couple economics studies that suggested that major league cities didn't really benefit from having teams and I found found this article that says college sports are probably really money losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessReplanted Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 My dad's wife is a teacher in Providence, and this has happened to her before. She has has gotten a 'pink slip' and then has a 'call back' notice and meeting (to teach the next year). So, I think in reality it is much less drastic than it sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sports programs often bring money into the school. I totally understand why people get disgruntled over the emphasis on sports (I lettered in marching band, lol), but it is true that sports tend to bring money back to the school in other ways. I understand the debate - that's why I said it's a whole different topic! While I know you've often gotta spend money to make money, in our district it's just waaaaay out of balance, IMO anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Do you have any references for this? It's something that I've always wondered about. I realize that the big sports programs (like football and basketball) often bring in gate revenues that are used to support other sports programs. But I've never seen a breakdown that considered things like the cost of stadiums, salaries of coaches who were employed as teachers but who were mostly coaches, cost of busing students to competitions, etc. I have seen references to a couple economics studies that suggested that major league cities didn't really benefit from having teams and I found found this article that says college sports are probably really money losers. Major league sports are a different animal. That's not a factor here. I'm sure it depends upon the state, the size of the school and so forth. I come from a state that takes its football *seriously*. http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/high-school-sports/football-revenue-crucial-to-other-high-school-sports-882836.html “Football is obviously vital to the financial stability of any athletic department,” said Ron Ullery, the Centerville High School football coach and athletic director who oversees a department that brought in an area-high $353,275 during the 2009-10 school year. http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/high-school-sports/which-schools-get-the-most-revenue-from-football--882855.html College sports? Even BIGGER. http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2009/06/15/daily2.html The University of Texas ranked No. 1 with $72.95 million http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/06/30/for-longhorns-money-grows-on-football-program-instead-of-trees/ The Longhorns' football program amassed a whopping $87.5 million in gross revenue during the 2008-09 school year and the football program cleared a $65 million profit, according to figures from the U.S. Department of Education's Equity in Athletics.Having a good sports program helps in a number of ways other than gate prices, licensing fees and such. First, when I was in high school the concessions were *often* used as fundraisers for other programs (like band). This is fairly common. Secondly, it brings people into the school who would not have otherwise chosen that school. They then give back generous donations. When large donations are made by OU alumni, they *often* say they chose to attend OU because of its prestigious sports program. For example, this MBA scholarship fund was started in memory of a successful businessman who served as drum major to OU's marching band while in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I understand the debate - that's why I said it's a whole different topic! While I know you've often gotta spend money to make money, in our district it's just waaaaay out of balance, IMO anyway. I'm sure it varies from school to school/state to state. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Sports programs often bring money into the school. I totally understand why people get disgruntled over the emphasis on sports (I lettered in marching band, lol), but it is true that sports tend to bring money back to the school in other ways. Hehehe. I lettered in Marching Band, too. And Orchestra, and drama. And basketball. But by the time I got the basketball letter my senior year, there was no room left on my jacket for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Sports programs often bring money into the school. I totally understand why people get disgruntled over the emphasis on sports (I lettered in marching band, lol), but it is true that sports tend to bring money back to the school in other ways. Honestly, I don't get how they bring in money but sports is not my thing. Locally they built a million dollar plus stadium which I am sure their buddes built and have a full time person for the stadium. IMHO I think little league style sports supported by volunteers would be a better way for sports for schools. Maybe I am wrong though. I just can't see spending that much on it out side of gym classes when all of the school districts keep raising the taxes every year the maximum amount they are allowed by law here:glare: And I am generally pretty liberal:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret in GA Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Aye, there's the rub. Our local school districts are all in the slash mode, but when I pull up the online budget for our district, I see it VERY top heavy with administrators and tech support personnel. (And sports. But that's a whole 'nother thread.:glare:) Yes, Yes, Yes. You fire 3 elementary school teachers, up the class sizes, and people applaud the cost saving measures that the bold and wise school board has undertaken. Yet, you could have kept those 3 teachers for what one superintendent of schools makes. And in our very small county we also have an overpaid assistant superintendent. Oh, and 3 principals at every school for what I consider small schools. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I lettered in, uh, Football :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Yes, Yes, Yes. You fire 3 elementary school teachers, up the class sizes, and people applaud the cost saving measures that the bold and wise school board has undertaken. Yet, you could have kept those 3 teachers for what one superintendent of schools makes. And in our very small county we also have an overpaid assistant superintendent. Oh, and 3 principals at every school for what I consider small schools. It's ridiculous. :iagree: We had a local administrator walk away with over $600,000 in accrued vacation/sick time and outrageous pension. He also while working had previous trips to Italy with expenses paid and use of school district credit card with no receipts and just his written verification of what the expenses were:001_huh: I have read of many administrators earning almost as much or more than the vice president of the US or the head of the joint chiefs of staff:glare: Then when you compare the benefits of teachers and other local city and state and county workers they often have deluxe benefits when compared to federal workers who have modest benefits in comparison. For example federal workers have a 3 part pension with the primary component a savings plan similar to a 401K. The second part is a pension equal to 1% of their salary for every year worked. So if they work 30 years that would be about 25% to 30% of their salary. They also contribute to this part of their retirement. The third part is social security. Whereas locally the teachers get 70% of their salary as a pension:001_huh: I have heard of others with state pensions and such that give 90% of their salaries as pensions. I think the cities, states, counties should model their benefits after the feds and it would save oodles of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Just for the record, I do think teachers and others should be paid well. I just think their benefits need to be more realistic like the federal employee benefits:) I also do not think administrators and such should be paid astronomical amounts:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I lettered in...academics. I don't remember what that involved, but I had (probably still have, somewhere) a big fluffy yellow (sorry--GOLD) letter for academics. Ah...this thread reminds me that it's that time of year...when I get to fret until DH comes home with a contract for next year. He assures me that the math department is safe, but I like to worry anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hey, since it seems like some of you on this thread might be the only people left in the world who might actually be interested... I lettered in academics, and, in gymnastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I lettered in, uh, Football :D Bill Bill!! :svengo: You just destroyed my image of you! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Whereas locally the teachers get 70% of their salary as a pension:001_huh: I have heard of others with state pensions and such that give 90% of their salaries as pensions. I think the cities, states, counties should model their benefits after the feds and it would save oodles of money. DH has an excellent retirement plan...and a salary that's tens of thousands of dollars lower than what he'd be making in the private sector (he took a 20,000 a year pay cut to go into teaching; that was 8 years ago and he's now up to only $10,000 under what he was making then, and he hasn't had a salary increase in 2 years). And THAT job had great benefits, too. Without good benefits to compensate for his lower salary, he could not afford to continue teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) DH has an excellent retirement plan...and a salary that's tens of thousands of dollars lower than what he'd be making in the private sector (he took a 20,000 a year pay cut to go into teaching; that was 8 years ago and he's now up to only $10,000 under what he was making then, and he hasn't had a salary increase in 2 years). And THAT job had great benefits, too. Without good benefits to compensate for his lower salary, he could not afford to continue teaching. I see your point. OTOH around here they are paid well and I do think they should be paid well. I just think it is unsustainable for our schools to keep raising taxes year after year the max they are allowed. I don't just think they should just look at teachers though. I think there are probably oodles of administrators and other jobs for buddies in the school systems that are unecessary. Then there are the unnecessary building projects that go to buddies as well. As for the benefits I am still inclined to think they should be modeled after the feds. I know I worked very hard in critical and acute care as a nurse for over 20 years and it was shocking to me that some teachers locally made $30,000.00/year more than I did as a critical care educator and a nurse in a low cost of living area. Then, of course, my benefits paled in comparison. So I also think that teachers salaries should be in line with other professionals somewhat and not substantially more. OTOH I chose nursing and made a sacrifice as well. I really don't have the answers but I do think it is unsustainable to keep raising taxes every year. For the record, I am not against tax increases and am in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts expire:) It is just that locally they keep raising them every single year:001_huh: Edited February 26, 2011 by priscilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy2BaMom Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I find it interesting that in all these discussions about teachers / salaries / benefits / costs of public schooling that one factor never gets mentioned....the changing face (or, more accurately, faces) of the U.S. student body. There are sooooo many ELLs and ESLs (English Language Learners and English as Second Language students) and students who come from poverty (greatly impacts their vocabulary, knowledge of the greater world, exposure to books and many other topices) and single-parent homes (relates to the poverty issue and also - generally speaking - the amount of temptations they tend to succumb to, statistically speaking)....these kids take a LOT more time - more behavior problems, more IEPs, more counseling appointments, more parental conferences (assuming the parents' show up), more tutoring, more translators, more one-on-one teacher instruction, more language support, more modeling of organization and study planning skills, etc. I'm long-term substitute teaching right now (10 weeks) at a diverse school - in 4th grade - and I cannot believe the amount of time it takes to get basic instructions across...and it's not all just about paying attention. The ELLs and ESLs oftentimes just. don't. get. it. And they're smart. It's just a language/background thing. There are so many more of these students now - at my school, it's half the student population. It's not good, bad, or indifferent in terms of values or judgments...but it is more expensive, and the bright kids, and/or the good kids (not always the same thing) sit and wait for all the other kids to catch up. With NCLB (which also greatly drives up costs for schools - all the testing / all the data entry / all the reporting), you can't move on until all the lower-level kids are catching on. It's very frustrating as a teacher, but I"m already working 50+ hours a week and can't work more. I think public school teachers are nuts...I wouldn't do this long term, although I love working with kids. This issue is so complex, and the temptation is always to simplify it. There's a lot of different components. Anyway, my 2 cents from someone (temporarily) on the front lines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Bill!! :svengo: You just destroyed my image of you! :lol: I was Captain of the Football Team I'll have you know :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hey, since it seems like some of you on this thread might be the only people left in the world who might actually be interested... I lettered in academics, and, in gymnastics. You can letter in "academics"? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 You can letter in "academics"? Bill If you are on the academic team that competes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 If you are on the academic team that competes. My school did not have that sort of team :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Pink slips are given out every year. Any teacher who isn't tenured will get them if the district is even considering lay-offs. I got them two years in a row until I was tenured. I have even heard that tenured teachers have gotten them in the last few years. It is just to cover the districts rear end should they need to lay off...... Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 If you are on the academic team that competes. At mine I think it just had to do with GPA or class rank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I don't think this is true everywhere. My friends who were nurses made close to what I made.....but then again it depends on years of service and education levels as well. A good friend of mine had been a nurse about the same amount of time I had been a teacher.....and we had similar education levels (MAs). We made comparable salaries as a base (we both often worked extra hours for more money). She made a little more since, but she worked more months than I did. Dawn I see your point. OTOH around here they are paid well and I do think they should be paid well. I just think it is unsustainable for our schools to keep raising taxes year after year the max they are allowed. I don't just think they should just look at teachers though. I think there are probably oodles of administrators and other jobs for buddies in the school systems that are unecessary. Then there are the unnecessary building projects that go to buddies as well. As for the benefits I am still inclined to think they should be modeled after the feds. I know I worked very hard in critical and acute care as a nurse for over 20 years and it was shocking to me that some teachers locally made $30,000.00/year more than I did as a critical care educator and a nurse in a low cost of living area. Then, of course, my benefits paled in comparison. So I also think that teachers salaries should be in line with other professionals somewhat and not substantially more. OTOH I chose nursing and made a sacrifice as well. I really don't have the answers but I do think it is unsustainable to keep raising taxes every year. For the record, I am not against tax increases and am in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts expire:) It is just that locally they keep raising them every single year:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 You can letter in "academics"? Bill Yep! If you are on the academic team that competes. I was on a district all-star team that won the national championship. Glory days, I gotta say.... Now I just do real well at Trivial Pursuit and the Dictionary Game. (But remember, I *did* read Moby Dick from cover to cover last year.;)) My school did not have that sort of team :D Bill Too bad, Bill, perhaps you would have been captain of that team, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Too bad, Bill, perhaps you would have been captain of that team, too! I was on the debate team. A fact I successfully kept from my friends on that "other" team :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (But remember, I *did* read Moby Dick from cover to cover last year.;)) Doesn't everyone? :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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