weight loss . . . dr's advice

[Rose in BC]

My sister had a heart attack last week. Today she was at a follow up appointment where, amongst other things, the dr told her she should lose some weight. My other sister, who went along to be a second set of ears, pipes up and asks "any secrets to doing that?" "Nope", the dr replies. "And if anyone tells you otherwise, they're lying."

 

His advice? Eat less and exercise more.

 

Hmmm. . . . why is something that sounds so simple, so hard to do?

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is a sore point for me. I have counted calories, exercised 6 days a week, done low carb, etc. and I do not lose weight. My dh suggested I talk to my Dr. The Drs. response was to shrug and to tell me to try harder.:banghead:

[mykdsmomy]

I can relate :grouphug: I had/have been struggling with weight loss for the past 15 years or so. I had one Dr. tell me that my weight was not causing any of my health issues and I had another one tell me I was "obese" (that's fun coming from your Dr.). I am 5'7" and was 204lbs at my highest.

 

I got sick last August and was forced to change my diet due to health issues. I would be lying if I said I would have done it anyway. I wouldn't. I said I wanted to but I wasn't doing anything to cut back. I'm afraid your sister's Dr. is right in that it is about eating less and exercising more :( (although I have yet to start an exercise routine :tongue_smilie: ). Here's how I'm losing weight (I've lost close to 60 lbs since last August). I use Myfitnesspal.com and log EVERYTHING I eat. Seriously, if you log it, you will start eating less! I also am restricted to less than 30 grams of fat per day :001_huh: I try to keep my calories close to 1200 but I rarely do. It all does come down to Science. You have to be burning more calories than you're consuming. There are calculators on Myfitnesspal and other sites where you put in your height, weight, activity level, etc and it tells you how many calories you are burning per day with your current lifestyle. Then it will tell you how many calories you should be eating to either lose, maintain or gain weight.

Bottom line is you need to just start. I will be more than happy to cheer you on :) I struggle every day! I had an In n Out burger for lunch and shouldn't have! But I'm moving on. ;) Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the type of response you were looking for but I just wanted to share what's working and let you know you're NOT alone!!!!!

[mykdsmomy]

This is a sore point for me. I have counted calories, exercised 6 days a week, done low carb, etc. and I do not lose weight. My dh suggested I talk to my Dr. The Drs. response was to shrug and to tell me to try harder.:banghead:

 

 

I'm sure you've been asked this but just in case, have they checked your thyroid??

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm sure you've been asked this but just in case, have they checked your thyroid??

 

I'm on thyroid medicine. I also have adrenal problems.

[KidsHappen]

My hubby was seriously overweight and had Syndrome X, high blood sugar, tryglicerides, cholesterol, etc. Our dr. put him on Metformin, phentermine (essentially a weak amphetamine ), red rice yeast and flax seed oil (he can't take fish oil) and he has lost over 20 lbs. already and his numbers have all come down without exercise. Of course, no dr. in their right mind would give someone who just had a heart attack any sort of amphetamine so I don't see that happening but for others they could consult their dr. about it.

 

phentermine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine

[Ottakee]

My husband had a heart attack a month ago and was told the same thing. The doctor suggested walking as a great form of exercise. You can do indoor with DVDs like Walk Away the Pounds or outdoors. If she has access to a pool, water aerobics is a great form of exercise that isn't too stressing on the joints. The doctor might have her go through cardiac rehab though first to ramp up her exercise and monitor her heart.

 

I agree with checking thyroid, blood sugars, etc. as well.

 

So far my husband has lost about 20 pounds and gone down 1 pants size. It is TOUGH as I am trying to loose too.

[Joy at Home]

My hubby was seriously overweight and had Syndrome X, high blood sugar, tryglicerides, cholesterol, etc. Our dr. put him on Metformin, phentermine (essentially a weak amphetamine ), red rice yeast and flax seed oil (he can't take fish oil) and he has lost over 20 lbs. already and his numbers have all come down without exercise. Of course, no dr. in their right mind would give someone who just had a heart attack any sort of amphetamine so I don't see that happening but for others they could consult their dr. about it.

 

phentermine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine

s

 

I just started phentarmine. I know it's not a fix in and of itself and you need to focus on changing eating habits, exercise, etc., but it is really helping me. My Dr. begrudingly prescribed it at my request. We have weight loss clinics all over that will prescribe it but they charge a fortune when the prescription itself only costs a few dollars, so I asked my family doc.

 

Again, not a quick fix but a tool that is really helping me right now.

 

lisa

[TravelingChris]

I would caution to just increase your exercise in small amounts. There is plenty of evidence out there that exercise does not make you lose weight. So put the onus on cutting calories. Part of it is changing what you are eating. Part of it is eating less. Raising the activity level up a notch can help. The part about exercising not working is that it takes a lot of exercise for one pound to be lost and usually people get so tired by it, they a) lower their activity level for the rest of the day b) eat more because they are hungry.

[jplain]

My other sister, who went along to be a second set of ears, pipes up and asks "any secrets to doing that?" "Nope", the dr replies. "And if anyone tells you otherwise, they're lying."

Uh...or maybe they're better informed. ;) Her doctor should do some reading.

 

His advice? Eat less and exercise more.

 

Hmmm. . . . why is something that sounds so simple, so hard to do?

Because it doesn't work.

 

Exercise has never been shown to be effective for long term weight loss. And this shouldn't be surprising. It increases appetite. There are all sorts of good reasons to exercise, but weight loss isn't one of them.

 

Eating less will help some, but most of us also have to make changes to what we're eating. Here's why: the foods we eat dramatically impact the hormones that control fat deposition and use. If our hormones believe we need to continue storing fat rather than burning it, even a semi-starvation diet won't work.

 

Calories in vs. calories out is true in a general sense. Yes, your body isn't creating or destroying matter. BUT, you have a lot less control over calories out than health professionals are willing to admit. If you eat less, and the hormones that control fat metabolism aren't on board, your body can make any number of small adjustments in calorie consumption that will completely negate your calorie restriction.

 

This very thoroughly researched book explains it all in much greater detail, but is accessible to a non-scientist:

Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes

[Peela]

There are many ways to lose weight but the point is, will it stay off?

I think its to do with learning and establishing new habits.

I like the No S Diet for its simplicity, its freedom, and the fact that its all about your habits, not what you eat. Its something you can stay on for the rest of your life, and no one else would even need to know. You don't have to eat weird food or make radical changes.

And its free.

[FaithManor]

The absolute worst advice regarding weight loss I have ever had came from an MD. I saw her once and told her as I left the room that she had failed the interview and would not be getting a call back!

 

This is what she said, "Oh, you just need to take it off fast and get it over with. Don't eat for 25 days. Just fast and drink water and coffee. It's brutal but you'll lose a lot of weight." No joke...that's what the skinny, ignoramous said! She recommended this after reading the lab report showing that my serum iron count was in the toilet and my hemoglobin was only 8.2! Her response when I asked her why she recommend something so dangerous to someone so anemic and her retort was, "Well, I was going to offer you a blood transfusion or two so it should be okaaaaaaay!'

 

Wow, don't know where she went to med school or who her professor of nutrition was but I'm thinking she must have failed the course or slept through the lectures.

 

For me, I've finally gotten some help from an MD I can trust though he started treating me and is now overseas again so email is our only communication. But, I have discovered that I do not tolerate grains. It's not a gluten thing. It's a grain thing. I've eliminated grains from my diet and sugar is an only rare treat but I do allow myself honey. My digestive track feels soooooo much better, I don't feel bloated anymore, my iron count is coming up so I must not have been digesting the grains properly and this interferred with iron absorption, and I've lost six lbs. in three weeks. I hope this continues. I do feel better and that counts for a lot in my book.

 

Faith

[jujsky]

This is a sore point for me. I have counted calories, exercised 6 days a week, done low carb, etc. and I do not lose weight. My dh suggested I talk to my Dr. The Drs. response was to shrug and to tell me to try harder.:banghead:

 

Jean, you sound like a dear friend of mine. She finally found a dr. who would listen. Turns out she has thyroid issues, and though she was doing everything right (even to an unhealthy extreme sometimes) she wasn't losing the weight. If this is what you're going through, insist that they check you thyroid.

[LisaKinVA]

At my most physically fit in my life, I was doing everything following conventional wisdom (low-fat, low-calorie, high exercise). I did lose weight (fat), but my bloodwork (trigylcerides, cholesterol...you name it) looked like I was anything BUT healthy. They handed me the standard diet & exercise for lowering cholesterol... and it was the diet I'd been following for 6 months! While I weighed 140#, I was also less than 20% body fat.

 

Thankfully, I was 25, my BP is very low (normal for me is easilly 90/45), or they would have been pushing statin drugs like mad.

 

The only "diet" that has worked since, was a low-carb, high-protein, with more fat. Funny, the same "diet" I tend to follow when pregnant... always taking me down about 20#, and then gain back afterwards. I read the Belly Fat Cure and the 4-Hour Body... watched Food Matters, and other documentaries, and my whole outlook on food/health changed completely.

 

I feel free. I feel full. And the weight is coming off without difficult exercise (although I will be adding that to my routine once we move). My dh went full-onto a low-carb diet, and says that he has never felt better. He has also lost 5 pounds this week without exercising.

 

However, I also have to say that completely eliminating food groups is bothersome. I suppose that's why I'm drawn to the Belly Fat Cure. It gives me a method and a moderation. It has provided balance.

 

We haven't eliminated all fruit, but it is not "always available" for constant snacking. I have added more cheese (YUM), yogurt (YUM), using fruit as a garnish than the main part of a snack. We also haven't elminated bread, potatoes, rice, or pasta.... but we don't eat meals dominated by these. I know what a portion of this should look like, and that we shouldn't eat bread/grains all day long.

 

We have replaced a side of bread at dinner with a salad... and BRING ON THE DRESSING! LOL Of course, I still have a child who prefers no dressing, one who only eats Italian, and two who like Ranch (all low-sugar/low carb options).

 

We frequently have salad with our meat on top... Taco Salad, Chili Salad, Chicken Salad, Tuna Salad, Steak Salad, Chef's Salad, Spinach Salad with hardboiled eggs & bacon (my dh LOVES this...lol).

 

BFC is easy for me to implement and understand. 120g. of carbs 15g. sugar divided between 3 meals, plus 2-3 high-protein snacks during the day.

 

In addition, we are doing the following:

 

1) Eating more raw vegetables. I sill cook green beans (fresh), corn (when we have it), and peas. But cooked veggies are not our mainstay anymore. Raw vegetable salads are... with Romaine, red Cabbage, Spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, and this week we've added cukecumber and by summer we will probably add some yellow summer squash. My dh and I eat about 6c. of raw vegetables a day (usually our lunch and dinners, with meat on top... we still have a family meal with pasta, rice or potatoes about once a week).

 

2) Eating more fats (mainly olive oil, adding avacado, nuts/nut butters, cheese and yogurt)

 

3) Eating more protein (chicken, fish, red meat, pork, a lot more eggs, nuts and cheese). But, since this is usually cut-up on our salad... we don't feel like we "need" a 7oz steak. 5oz. in pieces on the salad seems like more than enough.

 

4) Taking our vitamins. I have tried taking "any old vitamins" and it just doesn't work as well. For me, the vitamins that really *do* make me feel better are mostly by Nutrilite (yes, this is an Amway company). There are some I can take other brands (D3, B complex, calcium, C, Omega 3 don't seem to matter which brands), but when I go off their Double X and concentrated fruits and vegetables, and replace with any other multi-mineral/vitamin... I notice a big difference in how I feel. www.foodmatters.tv and Dr. Saul talk a lot about raw foods and vitamin supplements (although I don't think they hawk a brand... they just explain why, they are necessary).

 

There is still some tweaking to be done (there is NO one-size fits all diet/lifestyle... however the principles can be applied and tweaked by anyone.

 

Best wishes...

[ZooRho]

Sparkpeople is another good place for tracking food and other stuff,

 

I need to lose some weight but I joined it because my youngest was on a fat restricted diet, He can have 40 grams a day. BUt I like their set up.

 

and I'm hoping to start using it for myself soon.

[HollyDay]

My yearly appt is coming up and I know I will hear the same thing. I'm 5'6' and 152. THey just shrug and say, you should lose weight, go on a diet. I had gestational diabetes and they keep saying any excess weight will lead to full onset diabetes. I originally heard I'd be on medication by the time I was 40, then 45. Now they say I'm bound to need meds around 50 (guess whose around 50 now). At 45, the internist said she couldn't understand why I was able to avoid medication and remain healthy - but lose more weight to fit the charts. My lab work is excellent, my percent of body fat is down, my energy is up, my cycles are good, I feel better overall than I have in 10 years. I know my body better now at age 48 than I did at 28. I take excellent care of it. But, because the charts say I should be 145, I'll get the look and hear how I should be on a diet.

 

I've come to the conclusion most docs know very little about weight loss and nutrition. If someone is overweight and this in having an impact on their health and daily living (like the OP's sister), then they need to get some lab work (rule out thyroid, insulin resistance, hormone imbalance, etc), have a consult with a nutritionist and get started toward a lifetime of healthy eating and motion.

 

It is not about a diet. It is about making healthy choices everyday. It is about muscle vs fat, good sleep, stress management, aerobic activity and weight training, excellent nutrition, portion control, drinking enough water, managing perimenopause (well for some of us at that age), etc.

 

Docs generally just aren't well versed in this area. Read, read, and read and if possible, seek the advice of nutritionists and personal trainers.

[Rose in BC]

I think what I've learned from my years of battling this problem is that weight loss is probably a combo of all that's been said here. I think the doctor has a point . . . obviously portion control is important. Exercise is important too and I agree that its more about health in general than about weight loss.

 

I also believe every body responds differently to food and you have to learn the science and tweak it to fit your body and your family/lifestyle. (I definitely believe keeping a food journal works. Its easy to think you haven't eaten much if you don't keep track.)

 

We are healthy eaters in our home. I have been conscious for years about nutrition, etc. I know I eat too much and have to cut back.

 

The only other thing I know is that I want to move to a place where I'm not obsessed with weight. I just want to eat, exercise and enjoy life.

 

My sister's heart attack hit close to home. I do not have the same cholesterol or blood pressure issues she has suffered with for years. She also had early menopause which apparently can be a factor. But I do know I carry too much weight which is a risk factor.

 

And I'm not giving up . . . each day I try again. :001_smile:

[RoughCollie]

Hmm... I had a heart attack last week, too. I had already changed my diet to one for people who have serious heart problems because mine started 7 years ago with an emergency double cardiac bypass. Mind you, I dabbled at it from time to time (in 2-month spurts) over the years, and didn't get serious about it until last July. Then I fell off the wagon again around Thanksgiving.

 

Here are some books that are helpful:

 

Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease: The Only System Scientifically Proven to Reverse Heart Disease Without Drugs or Surgery

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ornishs-Program-Reversing-Heart-Disease/dp/0804110387/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297953391&sr=8-1

 

Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure

 

http://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002/ref=pd_sim_b_4

 

In a nutshell, the diets are the same for both: whole grains, vegetables, fruits, very low fat, no dairy, very low sugar, and no meat.

 

It isn't as bad as it sounds. I got used to it in a few weeks, and I actually love veggies now. I also feel 100% better. It is draconian, IMO, and I cheat on holidays by eating the foods I used to love, and I still eat feta cheese (the lower fat kind) and low-fat cheese. I also use skim milk in my cereal.

 

It is much easier to do when I have an eating plan.

 

Breakfast: Fiber One w/skim milk or steel cut oatmeal with raisins (for sweetener); orange juice (to wash down the pills)

 

Lunch: Huge salad with raw veg of every color & feta cheese, Kraft Light Raspberry Vinaigrette with Extra Virgin Olive Oil Reduced Fat Dressing, some kind of grain (whole grain pita, whole grain crackers)

 

Snack: Fruit

 

Dinner: 2-3 veg, beans or whole wheat pasta, and I figure out something to make that more palatable. If Jean in Newcastle is on my case, I add 3 -4 oz of protein, usually baked skinless chicken. I make delicious soups from the Love Soup cookbook.

 

I adapt my own recipes to be low fat. For instance, I will use 1/2 the meat (and use ground turkey) and twice the beans and veg in chili, and I do the same thing (minus the beans) with spaghetti sauce which contains meat.

 

As far as weight loss is concerned, I hope your sister is going to participate in a cardiac rehab program, so she doesn't worry about overdoing it and causing another heart attack. Meanwhile, walking is good exercise. With the heart-problem diets, I haven't found weight loss to be a problem -- I limit the servings of whole grains and beans to one cup, and if I'm hungry, I eat more veg. If I'm super hungry, I eat another cup of complex carbs, or another piece of fruit, or whole grain crackers and an ounce of sliced, low fat, cheese.

 

This diet has introduced me to foods I would not have tried (turnips, feta cheese) and some foods I hated I now love (raw tomatoes, raw veg, any veg). I now eat to live, not live to eat. Thankfully, this has not diminished my enjoyment of cooking and baking for my family.

Edited February 17, 2011 by RoughCollie

[Rose in BC]

Hmm... I had a heart attack last week, too. I had already changed my diet to one for people who have serious heart problems because mine started 7 years ago with an emergency double cardiac bypass. Mind you, I dabbled at it from time to time (in 2-month spurts) over the years, and didn't get serious about it until last July. Then I fell off the wagon again around Thanksgiving.

 

Here are some books that are helpful:

 

Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease: The Only System Scientifically Proven to Reverse Heart Disease Without Drugs or Surgery

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ornishs-Program-Reversing-Heart-Disease/dp/0804110387/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297953391&sr=8-1

 

Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure

 

http://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002/ref=pd_sim_b_4

 

 

 

Thanks for these suggestions. I'll check them out.

 

I hope you're doing well. My sister had her heart attack the same morning you had yours. It was all so surreal. I think she is still scared and shocked that this has happened.

 

She is older than I am but I know I don't want to be there if I can help it. Ultimately I guess there's only so much you can do but if I can do something to stay healthy, I'm going to try and do it.

 

I hope you're healing well.

[LG Gone Wild]

My sister had a heart attack last week. Today she was at a follow up appointment where, amongst other things, the dr told her she should lose some weight. My other sister, who went along to be a second set of ears, pipes up and asks "any secrets to doing that?" "Nope", the dr replies. "And if anyone tells you otherwise, they're lying."

 

His advice? Eat less and exercise more.

 

Hmmm. . . . why is something that sounds so simple, so hard to do?

 

My older neighbor had one and was told the same thing. He did and lost a lot weight. So, it does work. My dh ate less and exercised. He lost weight. I changed my diet and exercised REALLY HARD and lost weight (I've got hypothyroidism so it is a little trickier). People are out there proving that good diet and exercise works.

 

As for it being hard, it isn't really. People have mindsets. They want what they want.

[RoughCollie]

I think she is still scared and shocked that this has happened.

 

I still feel like I'm telling a lie when I use my heart attack as an excuse for something, like canceling an eye appointment. I know I had it, but it hasn't sunk in yet except on an intellectual level.

 

Tell her to make sure that she goes to cardiac rehab. Otherwise, she runs a giant risk of worrying about whether she will die from a heart attack every day, because she won't have a firm grasp on what she can and cannot safely do. Take it from one who knows.

 

The other thing is, everyone in my family now has a family history of early heart and cardiovascular disease. They are now all educated on signs and symptoms and risk factors. I say early, because at age 46, I had 2 major coronary arteries that were blocked 100% and and 97%. I was a medical mystery, because by all accounts, I should have been dead for at least 6 months by the time that was discovered.

 

Knowing the signs and symptoms is very important. For three years, I thought I was having anxiety attacks. Nope.

 

Also, the second time I had a cardiac event was 2 months after my bypass surgery. The doctors at two hospitals told me I was having anxiety from homeschooling! I knew differently, and it took 5 days and 5 trips to the E.R. before I could get anyone to do what I wanted. That time, during a cardiac cath, they placed 2 stents and did an angioplasty on another coronary artery. These 3 arteries had been clear 2 months earlier.

 

Last week, I called 911 and told them I was having a heart attack. I got the bill from one of the two ambulance companies that showed up. It said I was being transported for non-traumatic chest pain, which it definitely was not. This triggered a memory. I was in the E.R. and the doctor there told the EMTs that I was having a heart attack and they had read the EKG wrong. He told them how to do it correctly.

[LG Gone Wild]

I still feel like I'm telling a lie when I use my heart attack as an excuse for something, like canceling an eye appointment. I know I had it, but it hasn't sunk in yet except on an intellectual level.

 

Tell her to make sure that she goes to cardiac rehab. Otherwise, she runs a giant risk of worrying about whether she will die from a heart attack every day, because she won't have a firm grasp on what she can and cannot safely do. Take it from one who knows.

 

The other thing is, everyone in my family now has a family history of early heart and cardiovascular disease. They are now all educated on signs and symptoms and risk factors. I say early, because at age 46, I had 2 major coronary arteries that were blocked 100% and and 97%. I was a medical mystery, because by all accounts, I should have been dead for at least 6 months by the time that was discovered.

 

Knowing the signs and symptoms is very important. For three years, I thought I was having anxiety attacks. Nope.

 

Also, the second time I had a cardiac event was 2 months after my bypass surgery. The doctors at two hospitals told me I was having anxiety from homeschooling! I knew differently, and it took 5 days and 5 trips to the E.R. before I could get anyone to do what I wanted. That time, during a cardiac cath, they placed 2 stents and did an angioplasty on another coronary artery. These 3 arteries had been clear 2 months earlier.

 

Last week, I called 911 and told them I was having a heart attack. I got the bill from one of the two ambulance companies that showed up. It said I was being transported for non-traumatic chest pain, which it definitely was not. This triggered a memory. I was in the E.R. and the doctor there told the EMTs that I was having a heart attack and they had read the EKG wrong. He told them how to do it correctly.

 

 

That's awful and :grouphug:

[UnsinkableKristen]

I just wanted to chime in and say every time I've needed to lose weight (after each pregnancy), I've lost it through mostly exercise alone - walking and running - with little change to my diet. Exercise does make you hungrier, but you don't HAVE to eat more.

[lailasmum]

There's been articles & documentaries that I have seen and read very recently saying that some doctors are thinking that crash dieting is the way to go to loose weight. I always thought it was bad on so many levels but now its recommended to many people to do 1-2 weeks of crash dieting.

 

My Mum lost a ton of weight after going on metformin

(and some others but I can't remember what) but I can't say exactly what caused it the drugs or specific diet, she eats really small portions these days and gets full really easily, but isn't doing any extra exercise other than walking to work and gardening. She lost maybe 30lb gradually over the last year. She still has stubborn belly fat though.

[southcarolinamom]

I've been walking 1 hour a day, 7 days a week, and eating no more than 1200 calories a day. Using http://www.livestrong.com to track my calorie intake and fitness burning activities, I've lost 30 lb in 4 months, and have another 30 to go. It is PAINFULLY SLOW, but I'm losing about 2 pounds a week, which is the way doctors like to see us do it...

 

I had a hysterectomy 10 years ago, and not having my ovaries anymore to help burn 500 calories a day really stinks! :lol:

[6packofun]

Exercise burns calories. Combined with lowering calories going in, anyone who doesn't have any significant health issues to counter this simple formula *should* lose weight even if it's slowly. You can lose weight doing either one alone (if you're not sedentary or eating terribly), but I still believe both is better for health and balance. Why not give oneself the BEST? :)

 

The problem is that many, many people do think it's that simple, so they just do their thing and aren't really counting calories or at least counting fat and carb grams and/or aren't exercising as vigorously as they think they are. They get into a routine and when they get stuck, they say that their body is somehow different from everyone else's and regular methods "don't work". People think that they're working hard, when they might be able to take it up a notch--not drastically, just a change!--and get themselves out of that rut. They think that because they're eating low-carb or low-fat or "in moderation" or just LESS that they don't need to pay attention to calories, etc. and it's a MUST. Once you get to the point where you realize how many calories are in the foods you eat, you can more easily adjust and it's not a hassle. But no one wants that hassle at all and they think they're doing really well based on the fact that they didn't pig out or eat cake all day.

 

Keeping a food diary is a huge help!!

[jplain]

Exercise burns calories. Combined with lowering calories going in, anyone who doesn't have any significant health issues to counter this simple formula *should* lose weight even if it's slowly. You can lose weight doing either one alone (if you're not sedentary or eating terribly), but I still believe both is better for health and balance. Why not give oneself the BEST? :)

The problem is that this simple formula is TOO simple. It makes perfect sense...but it doesn't work because there are too many factors outside of your control.

 

You can control calories in by controlling what goes in your mouth. You may or may not make yourself miserable in the process.

 

You can influence calories out by increasing activity level.

 

HOWEVER, you cannot control the compensating metabolic adjustments that your body may make to counteract your efforts. You may find you have less energy. Your body may make other, more subtle changes, like slightly lowering your body temp or adjusting other metabolic activities. These small changes can add up to significant decrease in calorie expenditure, and may completely cancel out the effect of increased activity and restricted calories.

 

You cannot control these via restricting calories and exercise. To influence these things it helps to understand the detailed action of the hormones involved, primarily insulin. Thyroid health can be another variable. And for women in or nearing perimenopause, and those who are postmenopausal, estrogen is another factor.

 

Have you read Gary Taubes? You really should. It really ISN'T that simple.

Gluttony and sloth cannot adequately account for the epidemic of overweight and obesity.

You'll find a link to Taubes' most recent book in my previous post.

Edited February 17, 2011 by jplain

[FaithManor]

Amen Jplain! Not to mention that some digestive tracks have absorbtion issues so some of the things it seems to make "sense" to cut out, can't be cut out without other health problems.

 

I'm sick of people assuming that every person with a weight problem is dense, stupid, and lazy.

 

Faith

[Perry]

:grouphug: I'm so glad you got good care and are getting back to normal.

 

It said I was being transported for non-traumatic chest pain, which it definitely was not.

They are just making a distinction between chest pain resulting from trauma (car accident, baseball bat to the chest) vs. non-traumatic (MI, aortic dissection, etc).

 

It was traumatic for you! And us!

[LG Gone Wild]

The problem is that this simple formula is TOO simple. It makes perfect sense...but it doesn't work because there are too many factors outside of your control.

 

You can control calories in by controlling what goes in your mouth. You may or may not make yourself miserable in the process.

 

You can influence calories out by increasing activity level.

 

HOWEVER, you cannot control the compensating metabolic adjustments that your body may make to counteract your efforts. You may find you have less energy. Your body may make other, more subtle changes, like slightly lowering your body temp or adjusting other metabolic activities. These small changes can add up to significant decrease in calorie expenditure, and may completely cancel out the effect of increased activity and restricted calories.

 

You cannot control these via restricting calories and exercise. To influence these things it helps to understand the detailed action of the hormones involved, primarily insulin. Thyroid health can be another variable. And for women in or nearing perimenopause, and those who are postmenopausal, estrogen is another factor.

 

Have you read Gary Taubes? You really should. It really ISN'T that simple.

Gluttony and sloth cannot adequately account for the epidemic of overweight and obesity.

You'll find a link to Taubes' most recent book in my previous post.

 

And yet it does work, more easily for some than others. It took a friend 8 months to lose 100lbs and me 2 years to lose 10lbs but it worked. Not everybody reaches their dream or goal but it works.

 

For the bold part...why not (barring illness)? We have a physically leisure culture with little physical labor and we glamorize food.

 

The flip side of asserting that overweight people shouldn't be assumed to be lazy or dense is to assert that not everyone who is obese or overweight had a physical illness that got them that way.

[jplain]

For the bold part...why not (barring illness)? We have a physically leisure culture with little physical labor and we glamorize food.

I've already explained why in previous posts. But don't take my word for it. Go read Taubes. Then we can talk.

[OLG]

I think its to do with learning and establishing new habits.

I like the No S Diet for its simplicity, its freedom, and the fact that its all about your habits, not what you eat. Its something you can stay on for the rest of your life, and no one else would even need to know. You don't have to eat weird food or make radical changes.

And its free.

 

This looks terrific, Peela - so honestly sensible!!! Thanks so much for posting it.

 

Mary

[LG Gone Wild]

I've already explained why in previous posts. But don't take my word for it. Go read Taubes. Then we can talk.

 

Why should I read another book on some elusive secret to weight loss that has eluded mankind since the dawn of time? I see no reason to believe him over any other hundreds of authors.

Edited February 17, 2011 by LG Gone Wild
Needed to rephrase...

[jplain]

...I am not interested in fads.

What makes you think it is a fad? In Why We Get Fat and his earlier book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, Taubes cites literally thousands of research studies. I'm a biologist by training, and nutrition is one of my passions. The ideas aren't quackery. His arguments are solid and evidence-based and give insight into causes. That's a lot more that can be said for any argument that relies on gluttony and sloth, which are simply correlations.

 

I'm surprised that you are completely unwilling to explore an opposing view.

Where's the intellectual curiosity?

Where are the critical thinking skills?

Edited February 17, 2011 by jplain

[LG Gone Wild]

What makes you think it is a fad? In Why We Get Fat and his earlier book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, Taubes cites literally thousands of research studies. I'm a biologist by training, and nutrition is one of my passions. I assure you that the ideas aren't quackery. His arguments are solidly evidence-based.

 

I'm surprised that you are completely unwilling to explore an opposing view.

Where's the intellectual curiosity?

Where are the critical thinking skills?

 

I am not interested in clutter. That doesn't make me *not* curious. I used my discernment in deciding not to chase.

[jplain]

I am not interested in clutter. That doesn't make me *not* curious. I used my discernment in deciding not to chase.

There is no discernment involved in blatant refusal to consider alternative explanations for an observed phenomenon.

I'd call it intellectual sloth. :tongue_smilie:

[Jami]

What makes you think it is a fad? In Why We Get Fat and his earlier book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, Taubes cites literally thousands of research studies. I'm a biologist by training, and nutrition is one of my passions. The ideas aren't quackery. His arguments are solid and evidence-based and give insight into causes. That's a lot more that can be said for any argument that relies on gluttony and sloth, which are simply correlations.

 

I'm surprised that you are completely unwilling to explore an opposing view.

Where's the intellectual curiosity?

Where are the critical thinking skills?

 

 

Thank you for continuing to encourage people to read Taubes' research and rethink their paradigm for weight loss, jplain. I think those with 10-15 lbs of vanity weight to lose perhaps can't really understand what it means to have 50, 75, or 100+ lbs to lose and honestly not have success with "eating less, moving more". And how their bodies work against them to eat less and move more by slowing down metabolisms or draining them of energy. It's so much more complex than the calorie going in being efficiently burned through exercise. I've finally had success with my own lifelong weight struggles, losing more than 50 lbs so far over the past 9 months and gaining the energy to exercise intensely. And it has been through learning to control my insulin and blood sugar by eating a low carb diet.

[LisaKinVA]

Why should I read another book on some elusive secret to weight loss that has eluded mankind since the dawn of time? I see no reason to believe him over any other hundreds of authors.

 

Because it's not really about weight loss. It's explaining how the body really works, based upon how man has eaten for thousands of years... backed up with studies and research that date back much further.

 

The current grain-based (carb-based) model is NEW to mankind. It's not that mankind never ate bread... we just didn't eat this much of it!

 

It explains how by eating low-fat, high-carb/sugar, low-protein diets are actually robbing our body of things it needs... so it compensates (insulin, being a huge culprit). That the problem is that what we eat puts insulin (and other hormones/enzymes/etc.) out of whack so our bodies don't process foods properly.

 

If you don't have time for a book, you can start with a documentary called, "Food Matters." Or go to www.foodmatters.tv -- visit Dr. Saul's website (I think it's called www.doctoryourself.com). There are numerous people who are all preaching versions on the same theme.

 

The Dr. prescribed diet does. not. work. for me. (I was not overweight, eating from only the healthy things on the list, had eliminated cheese, eggs, yogurt, milk, protein, fat...)but my lipids were astronomical, and my liver function tests were coming back as if I were a drinker (fatty liver disease). This was caused by the increased SUGAR I was consuming.

 

I am now undoing all of that. Weight is coming off gradually, easilly, without having to exercise 2 hours a day, or abusing laxatives, or popping pills (all of which helped me lose weight). I am NOT hungry. I feel better than I've felt in a long, long time. My hair is growing... and I am getting excited about putting on a swimsuit!

 

**please, let me also add, for those who have heart issues, look into vitamin therapy** there are decades of research into this, decades that the medical community has ignored. Published research journals that the FDA and medical community refuses to reference. You can help your heart a lot with Vitamin E, Vitamin C, and many other things.

 

It's solid science.

[silliness7]

I can relate I had/have been struggling with weight loss for the past 15 years or so. I had one Dr. tell me that my weight was not causing any of my health issues and I had another one tell me I was "obese" (that's fun coming from your Dr.). I am 5'7" and was 204lbs at my highest.

 

I got sick last August and was forced to change my diet due to health issues. I would be lying if I said I would have done it anyway. I wouldn't. I said I wanted to but I wasn't doing anything to cut back. I'm afraid your sister's Dr. is right in that it is about eating less and exercising more (although I have yet to start an exercise routine :tongue_smilie: ). Here's how I'm losing weight (I've lost close to 60 lbs since last August). I use Myfitnesspal.com and log EVERYTHING I eat. Seriously, if you log it, you will start eating less! I also am restricted to less than 30 grams of fat per day :001_huh: I try to keep my calories close to 1200 but I rarely do. It all does come down to Science. You have to be burning more calories than you're consuming. There are calculators on Myfitnesspal and other sites where you put in your height, weight, activity level, etc and it tells you how many calories you are burning per day with your current lifestyle. Then it will tell you how many calories you should be eating to either lose, maintain or gain weight.

Bottom line is you need to just start. I will be more than happy to cheer you on :) I struggle every day! I had an In n Out burger for lunch and shouldn't have! But I'm moving on. ;) Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the type of response you were looking for but I just wanted to share what's working and let you know you're NOT alone!!!!!

 

:iagree: Log what you eat. Everything. I found a free website

www.caloriecount.com

that helps me. Counting it up and writing it down has helped me stay at my goal calorie intake of 1200 per day. Usually I'll plan out what I want to eat for supper, log the calories and then I'll know how much I can eat for lunch in order to have my yummy supper. I skip breakfast. I know the "experts" say not to. But once I "break my fast" I start feeling hungrier faster and desiring to eat. Plus I'm most desirous to eat at night when the kids are in bed and want to unwind with a snack. So I'll save up my calories for the end of the day. It's a reward for doing well the beginning of the day. It works for me. I've lost 10lbs. in 3 weeks but I expect that will slow down as time goes on. I'm prepared for that.

 

I'll tell you what helps keep my appetite in check and controls the munchies...bubble gum. It makes me feel full and gives my teeth something to work over. I don't eat "diet" food. I eat what I like but when I reach 1200 I stop. Along the way I figured out how to substitute lower calorie items so that I could eat "more". I used to eat regular ranch dressing with my salad but those calories will get me up to 1200 much faster than I like. I found a lower calorie dressing that I liked but kept looking and found one with even less calories...that's NOT fat-free. I HATE fat-free. :001_smile: I also did that with my ice cream. I LOVE some ice cream before bed. I found a variety that tastes the same to me but had 33% fewer calories. Those kinds of things make me happy. :001_smile:

 

Also, one more thing that I highly recommend is to weigh your food instead of measuring it with a measuring cup. The serving size will sometimes say 1/2 cup and also in parentheses so many grams. I've weighed what I put in my measuring cup and it was too much. I can pack a lot of ice cream in a measuring cup. :001_smile: But on the flip side I was eating a can of ravioli which said it had about 2 servings in the can. I wanted to eat the whole can and was just going to double the calories. I decided to weigh it and the can only had 1.5 servings in it. I think a can of ravioli has 333 calories and is incredibly satisfying to me. I can eat that for lunch and then have a decent dinner with ice cream at bed time and stay at 1200 calories no problem.

 

Good Luck to your sister!

[LG Gone Wild]

There is no discernment involved in blatant refusal to consider alternative explanations for an observed phenomenon.

I'd call it intellectual sloth. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's also observed the eating less (and right) combined with exercise works. :)

[LG Gone Wild]

Because it's not really about weight loss. It's explaining how the body really works, based upon how man has eaten for thousands of years... backed up with studies and research that date back much further.

 

The current grain-based (carb-based) model is NEW to mankind. It's not that mankind never ate bread... we just didn't eat this much of it!

 

It explains how by eating low-fat, high-carb/sugar, low-protein diets are actually robbing our body of things it needs... so it compensates (insulin, being a huge culprit). That the problem is that what we eat puts insulin (and other hormones/enzymes/etc.) out of whack so our bodies don't process foods properly.

 

If you don't have time for a book, you can start with a documentary called, "Food Matters." Or go to www.foodmatters.tv -- visit Dr. Saul's website (I think it's called www.doctoryourself.com). There are numerous people who are all preaching versions on the same theme.

 

The Dr. prescribed diet does. not. work. for me. (I was not overweight, eating from only the healthy things on the list, had eliminated cheese, eggs, yogurt, milk, protein, fat...)but my lipids were astronomical, and my liver function tests were coming back as if I were a drinker (fatty liver disease). This was caused by the increased SUGAR I was consuming.

 

I am now undoing all of that. Weight is coming off gradually, easilly, without having to exercise 2 hours a day, or abusing laxatives, or popping pills (all of which helped me lose weight). I am NOT hungry. I feel better than I've felt in a long, long time. My hair is growing... and I am getting excited about putting on a swimsuit!

 

**please, let me also add, for those who have heart issues, look into vitamin therapy** there are decades of research into this, decades that the medical community has ignored. Published research journals that the FDA and medical community refuses to reference. You can help your heart a lot with Vitamin E, Vitamin C, and many other things.

 

It's solid science.

 

Actually, that was my point about glamorizing food.

[Wildiris]

The equation is simple:

 

Calories in < Calories out.

 

Cut out bread, pasta, and sugar in all forms. 60 min. of exercise at least 5 days a week.

 

Writing it out is simple. Doing this, well, that is another thing altogether. I have dropped weight slowly by cutting out the dough and cutting back on the sugar, but the greatest benefit is getting up and away from the computer and getting outside for a walk.

 

Curiously, I found eating more protein has helped. Restricting the number of calories I ate did not work, in fact I gained weight by restricting calories. I make a concerted effort to eat well and make the calories I do consume feed my body. I can no longer eat empty calorie foods like I did when I was in my 20s and 30s.

 

As we age our metabolism slows. Weight bearing exercise helps increase metabolism as we age, as well as ensuring we have the strength to do physical work.

 

Don't buy a rototiller. Dig your garden beds with a shovel and a hoe!

[RoughCollie]

They are just making a distinction between chest pain resulting from trauma (car accident, baseball bat to the chest) vs. non-traumatic (MI, aortic dissection, etc).

 

Thank you, Perry. It is good to know that it doesn't mean that I wasn't being taken seriously. :grouphug:

[LisaKinVA]

Don't buy a rototiller. Dig your garden beds with a shovel and a hoe!

 

 

HAHAHA...you must not live in with Virginia red clay. Although, we're building nice raised, enclosed beds, and I'm bringing in dirt, sand, and soil. Once we have the nice soil... I'll be using a hoe.

 

In California, using the shovels were fine. In VA, it can be like trying to shovel concrete... grab the pick-axe first :lol:

[RoughCollie]

Don't buy a rototiller. Dig your garden beds with a shovel and a hoe!

[/font][/size]

 

This thread started out as being about a woman who had a heart attack last week.

 

If you have heart or cardiovascular problems, be careful about digging, hoeing, shoveling, raking, etc. -- check with your doctor first. I have not been permitted to do those things since I had my bypass surgery. Right now, I am not allowed to vacuum for several weeks, along with many other activities that involve using my arms (lifting, pushing, pulling, scrubbing ...). It wouldn't be so awful if I were permanently disallowed to vacuum ... if that happens (it won't, with my luck), I'm going to ask the cardiologist to include doing laundry on the list. :-)

 

Regarding vitamins, if you are taking medication for a heart or cardiovascular condition, do your research first and make sure your cardiologist agrees. Niacin does not always react well with Lipitor, for example, although it is supposed to help increase HDL (the good cholesterol). I take Lipitor now. My cholesterol level is 165, but my HDL is only 37, so I am going to talk to my cardiologist about whether it is safe for me to take niacin.

Edited February 17, 2011 by RoughCollie

[KatieJ]

I will bring a little different voice to this discussion.

I too have been on an adult life long weight loss journey.

When I joined WW, I got pregnant, twice.

Atkins, I lost weight, but it's a diffcult lifestyle when you have 2 hungry teens in the house and there is tons of stuff to temp you. I fell off that wagon and all further attempts to get back on failed.

 

2 years ago my blood tests were leaning towards diabetes..prediabetic.

I went all whole grains, low sugar, etc.

I did loose 20 pounds, but I felt bloated and I know Iwas retaining fluid all the time.

This past year my regular MD sent me to an allergist. I was skin tested for many things and all of them were positive.

corn

wheat

oat

rice

potato

soy yeast

surag

cacao

milk

egg.

 

I went off all of them and still took weeks before the scale started to move. it is a rediculously hard list to work around and while I never got totally off the wagon, it was really hard over the holidays.

I did/do lots of journalling and while it does give you pause to have to write it down, the bigger reason to journal what you eat is to record how you feel after wards, or even the next day.

sleepy, headache, fluid retention etc.

 

Now I am in the process of trying to "prove" which of those food are truly sensativities for me .

 

At my last regular appointment, my prediabetic condition is gone, I ahve lost 45 pounds over the past 2 years and my blood tests are all looking much better. Most within normal.

 

The thought is that there are foods that your body can't handle. Calories are not the problem necessarily. I have done the eat less and move more and it jsut doens't work for me. I retain fluid like crzy when I eat wheat, rice, or MSG and that is what I have to avoid. Dairy seems to make me sleepy.

Retaining fluid means my body doens't like it, and there is an active irritation going on and my body is sending fluid to calm it down.

 

My Regular Dr. has also been handing out his flyer with his new food pyramid. He calls it his rocket to success. He says that since he started handing out this pyrmaid and sending folks to the allergist I have seen, he has only written one new Diabetic RX.

It's working folks.

 

I can find the pyramid and type it out here if you want it, but mostly it is a base of fruits and veggies...11-13 servings a day. Low in protein ( which doens't really work for me, I eat more than he recommends), fat at the topl, and carbs in teh middle.

[6packofun]

Now, I hate to use a television show with factors involved that we can't measure, BUT I find it interesting that ALL of the people who go on The Biggest Loser do what? Exercise and control their calorie intake. They aren't using some special diet as far as I know and I've looked. They ALL lose weight. So they just happened to choose people with the same metabolic functions and hormonal issues (or lack of) and body types and emotional issues? Is there something more complex going on or are they just doing the hard work of that "simple" formula?

 

You mentioned some things, like thyroid issues, that I would include in my caveat of people who can do this the traditional way without extra medical support. I do think genetics play a role as well, but I've seen countless people overcome their genes and do it. Some as the only obese person in their family and some in a family of nearly ALL obese folks.

Edited February 17, 2011 by 6packofun
.m.

[gingersmom]

It doesn't matter what diet you do, just do it.

 

Heart disease with obesity kills.

 

My X husband had heart disease and was severely overweight. He didn't take the doctors advice to lose weight. He died 3 days after his 40th birthday.

[LisaKinVA]

Now, I hate to use a television show with factors involved that we can't measure, BUT I find it interesting that ALL of the people who go on The Biggest Loser do what? Exercise and control their calorie intake. They aren't using some special diet as far as I know and I've looked. They ALL lose weight. So they just happened to choose people with the same metabolic functions and hormonal issues (or lack of) and body types and emotional issues? Is there something more complex going on or are they just doing the hard work of that "simple" formula?

 

 

Actually, they change a LOT of what they eat. They aren't eating tons of bread. They ARE eating lots of fresh veggies... lean proteins, drinking water vs. soda, milk, etc. They have cut out surgar and lots of bread. And they do exercise. I would not be surprised if many of those folks were drinking a 2 liter of soda a day! Or maybe, it was 32 oz. of orange juice (it's healthy, right?). How much juice do you see them drinking? I bet their first lesson is "DON'T DRINK YOUR CALORIES!" A lot of what we don't see on the show is the one-on-one counseling sessions, working out eating plans... nutrition education.

 

Calorie counting, measuring food, carb counting, sugar counting are all tools to help peole guage healthy food ranges. They can't be used in isolation, but as part of a whole lifestyle change... understanding balance and body needs.

 

Also, the people on The Biggest Loser are also heavilly monitored all. the. time. That type of rapid weight loss should not be done without major supervision.

 

Let's also not forget, they only show parts of the day... They are probably working out (actively) for no more than 3 hours a day (broken up). In fact, their workouts (initially) probably do not last beyond 20-30 minutes. There may be other "light" exercise (walking, hanging out in the pool, etc.), and towards the end (since all they really have to do is exercise), they may do more. But, even the most "religious" exercise enthusiast/weight trainer will tell you there is a limit. Your body and muscles have to recover. One simply cannot exercise 8 hours a day without doing some serious damage to their joints, ligaments, and muscles.

 

I mentioned before, that at my most physically fit, in order to maintain that (and my blood work was still a mess), I had to exercise and weight train 2hrs/day, 6 days a week. If I did not, and even if I maintained my 1500 calories a day, low-fat, dr.-approved diet, I gained weight. After the birth of my son 11 years ago, and even while breastfeeding exclusively, and counting calories (following that Dr-approved diet, but allowing myself 1800 calories/day to account for the breastfeeding), I gained 20 pounds in one month... I gave up.

 

There is not enough time in the day for me to exercise/train for 2 hours/day, 6 days/week. Something else was going on, and doctors have been absolutely no help.

 

This is my personal experience. This is what I have learned about me. Perhaps I do have some grain intolerances... I don't know. I do know my body violently rejects peas... but other legumes seem fine. And I know that the combination of the Vitamin therapy, raw foods, 120g. carbs and 15g. sugar a day, eating more raw veggies, significantly limiting my fruit consumption, and using portioned amounts of protein, and fats (but not counting them) has worked tremendously well... even though I still haven't been able to get to a good exercise routine.

 

True, I haven't had my blood work done in 2 years... but I *know* following their plan wasn't doing anything for my cholesterol (lets see, the doctor said, "astronomical" regarding my numbers... and my liver was starting to deteriorate. Of course, I was also 30 days post-partum. IMO, how much worse could it get? Plus, I know that this type of diet may take several months to really work.

 

Sorry, I've just become very passionate about all of this. After years of feeling like it didn't matter what I did... I now have something that is real, that doesn't have me feeling like a failure, or deprived... and that has a real shot at bringing my cholesterol numbers down... and reversing the fatty liver disease/damage to my liver (that isn't from alcohol... it's due to SUGAR).

 

In short, I have hope... and I'm not obese. Yeah I'm 30# heavier than I'd like, but I have so much more energy than I did a week ago... and two weeks before that. I feel like I CAN move more.

[Wildiris]

This thread started out as being about a woman who had a heart attack last week.

 

If you have heart or cardiovascular problems, be careful about digging, hoeing, shoveling, raking, etc. -- check with your doctor first. I have not been permitted to do those things since I had my bypass surgery. Right now, I am not allowed to vacuum for several weeks, along with many other activities that involve using my arms (lifting, pushing, pulling, scrubbing ...). It wouldn't be so awful if I were permanently disallowed to vacuum ... if that happens (it won't, with my luck), I'm going to ask the cardiologist to include doing laundry on the list. :-)

 

I did not mean to disregard your current state of health. Clearly you will be advised to monitor you activities and go easy. I was making a general comment. Sorry. :001_smile: Can you do a stationary bike like the kind you'd find at a gym? What about a personal trainer recommended from you cardiologist? Perhaps a personal trainer with experience in helping those recovering from a heart attack could help?

 

Cardiovascular disease for women is a real concern especially after menopause when women lose the protection of estrogen. I personally think staying active helps in the prevention of cardiovascular disease.

 

Best wish on a speedy recovery,

Iris