fhjmom Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I am venting here because if I respond to an email tonight with what I really want to say, I will probably get kicked off the board (not this one).:tongue_smilie: I am on the board of directors for a very small statewide non-profit. I am "outreach director" and as part of that duty I volunteered to make a new brochure for the organization. I feel like I am fairly skilled in design and while not a professional, I think my work is better than the average amateur (I used to work as a class/sample designer for a scrapbook manufacturer and I did some marketing work for my dad's development business that his builders thought was professionally done.) Plus, I am doing it for FREE. I have spent *many* hours over several months creating several options in Photoshop. They chose one design several months ago and since then I have spent *more* time revising and adding to the brochure, waiting on the board to make some decisions that affected content, begging for a final decision so I could get the brochures finished, begging for photos to include, begging for testimonials,... with very little or no response from anyone. Then we had a board meeting this past weekend and they decide they wanted the brochures printed before an event on Feb. 12th. They all look at me and make me feel like it is my fault the brochure isn't already done. I explain yet again I need a decision on a certain detail - actually a big detail, the organization phone number - and then I can get it ready to go to print. We finally get that cleared up and I send out a final draft for the board review and asking for corrections/comments. Now, everyone has an opinion. I try to work in everyone's comments the best I can. I finally get more pictures from a couple of people because all of a sudden they realize I don't have enough diversity in our pictures - which is why I have been saying I need pictures. Most of the ones I get are not high enough quality to print because they are web-sized so I do my best to stretch the few I can to the absolute limits. I get a response from one board member saying we need more of "x" type of pictures. I respond directly to that person and a direct quote from the email is "I would love to have any pics you have to share." I waited two days before sending the final version to the printer and now that person is raking me over the coals in multiple emails to the entire board because I didn't include any of "x" type of pictures and I never emailed or called and asked her for the pictures. I have emailed the entire board for months, I sent a plea with the draft, plus I responded directly to her to send the photos and she didn't. I am so mad that she is trying to make me out to be the one that didn't do what "the board" (really just she) requested. I love this organization and today I spent about an hour talking to a mom who needed the resources we provide. I really needed that contact today because I enjoy being able to connect with those other families and maybe help in some way. I really enjoy doing the design work most of the time, too. This situation just has me about ready to pull my hair out and say forget it. Well, it's more than just this; there has been some other stuff happening that makes me want to pull my hair out, too, this just may be the last straw. So if I responded to an offer of pictures with ""I would love to have any pics you have to share," is that not a clear request for her to send the pictures?? In a different email to the entire board, I said "If you have some (pictures) that are high resolution, show diversity and we have permission to use, I would love to try to include them." How much clearer could I be?? Thanks for the space to vent. I am trying my best to keep my typing fingers under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Thanks for the space to vent. I am trying my best to keep my typing fingers under control. Some people have no ability to comprehend the work it took to do something if THEY AREN'T DOING IT. Don't let the turkeys get you down. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 So next year, when you aren't doing this because you are too busy, they will realize what they have lost. :tongue_smilie: :grouphug: I know how hard it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 :grouphug: Yes, it was a clear request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 :grouphug: That's a lot of work and it sounds like you didn't get as much support as you hoped, and I know how that can be. I've worked for large organizations with these problems, and with non-profit organizations that have them even more. However, if I got something that said "I would love to have any pics you have to share," I would think that you had enough pictures but might like some more. So, it's not really that clear. What would be clear would be: "I need more pictures." or "If I don't get more high-resolution pictures, we're going to only have 2 or 3 usable pictures of ducks and I think it would be better if we had 6 pictures of ducks and 8 pictures of geese." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 :grouphug: That's a lot of work and it sounds like you didn't get as much support as you hoped, and I know how that can be. I've worked for large organizations with these problems, and with non-profit organizations that have them even more. However, if I got something that said "I would love to have any pics you have to share," I would think that you had enough pictures but might like some more. So, it's not really that clear. What would be clear would be: "I need more pictures." or "If I don't get more high-resolution pictures, we're going to only have 2 or 3 usable pictures of ducks and I think it would be better if we had 6 pictures of ducks and 8 pictures of geese." Just to clarify, the ""I would love to have any pics you have to share," was a direct to response to her email offing to send pictures, after she had seen the draft that didn't have any "x" type pictures in it. I also said in the same email that I did not have any "x" type pictures and agreed we should include some thus my response of ""I would love to have any pics you have to share." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Just to clarify, the ""I would love to have any pics you have to share," was a direct to response to her email offing to send pictures, after she had seen the draft that didn't have any "x" type pictures in it. I also said in the same email that I did not have any "x" type pictures and agreed we should include some thus my response of ""I would love to have any pics you have to share." :grouphug: Vent away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Clear, yes, but I have learned that I need to give people a deadline. Easier for everone that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Clear, yes, but I have learned that I need to give people a deadline. Easier for everone that way. Yes, but the same people had given her the deadline. So they should have known when it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) OP, my guess is that it was not an issue of the clarity of the request, but of people not paying attention until they didn't like something. I would forward your requests for photos and state categorically that this is a "foul." Be as brief as possible in stating that. 2-3 sentences. Maybe something like this: "I agree with you that we needed more diversity in the photos which is why I sent two requests for photos and asked for feedback prior to the deadline. (See below.) We had the same goal. Had the current level of attention been given to to my requests prior to the printing, our organization would have had a brochure with diverse photos. It is unprofessional to be complaining now. " (Keeping your personal emotion out of it is usually most helpful when dealing with organizations. ) Edited February 5, 2011 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 OP, my guess is that it was not an issue of the clarity of the request, but of people not paying attention until they didn't like something. I would forward your requests for photos and state categorically that this is a "foul." Be as brief as possible in stating that. 2-3 sentences. Maybe something like this: "I agree with you that we needed more diversity in the photos which is why I sent two requests for photos and asked for feedback prior to the deadline. (See below.) We had the same goal. Had the current level of attention been given to to my requests prior to the printing, our organization would have had a brochure with diverse photos. It is unprofessional to be complaining now. " (Keeping your personal emotion out of it is usually most helpful when dealing with organizations. ) Good advice. I did respond to one of her emails with this: "I thought when I replied to your email about this before with, "I would love to have any pics you have to share." that would be seen as request asking to use your pictures. The file has already gone to the printer and cannot be changed at this point. I agreed that it was important to show as much variety as possible but I cannot include something I don't have. I will do my best to get some pictures of ("x") to include before our next printing. If you want to go ahead and send what you have to share, I have started a file of images to use for our printed materials, newsletter, etc." Then she sent two more emails after that still ranting and accusing me of not contacting her. :tongue_smilie:Oh, and she still hasn't sent the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 In the future, cc the rest of the group on any e-mails that you send her so that there is clear proof that you've been providing her information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 In the future, cc the rest of the group on any e-mails that you send her so that there is clear proof that you've been providing her information. Oh, the board was included on all the emails. Good advice though. That is why it is hard for me not to respond. She has literally sent four emails this afternoon about this but couldn't take the time before today to send the photos? No one else on the board has stepped in either so I am waiting until tomorrow and I am hoping someone will say, "Ummm, she did email you and all of us." I don't know if anyone will though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahansen Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 "I agree with you that we needed more diversity in the photos which is why I sent two requests for photos and asked for feedback prior to the deadline. (See below.) We had the same goal. Had the current level of attention been given to to my requests prior to the printing, our organization would have had a brochure with diverse photos. It is unprofessional to be complaining now. " (Keeping your personal emotion out of it is usually most helpful when dealing with organizations. ) :iagree: You are in a sticky position when you volunteer. Frequently volunteers are held to all of the responsibilities (and flack) that come with being an employee with few of the rewards (like a salary, for instance, and sometimes respect). When we work hard for something we love, simply for the love of it, then feel unappreciated and "unloved," it is very discouraging. The other big disadvantage I see is that if you had been in a paid position you would probably have been more straightforward. Don't get me wrong -- I think your request was clear, but there is a big difference between sending a memo saying, "I need pictures" and emailing politely. I don't think you were wrong, you were just in a different position than if you'd been another employee. And, if you were another employee, you'd probably be more likely to write that person off as an unpleasant coworker than to feel hurt. (Not that I blame you for that, either.) Having done plenty of volunteer work and also a fair bit of layout/design, one other thing I want to add is that many (possibly most) people can't picture things until they are finished. Even a mock-up or a rough layout may not help them to picture what the end product will be. It's only when they see the finished product that they realize that they wanted something different out of it, or it wasn't what they expected. In addition, few people understand how to design something. Their idea of "could you just move this over here" may seem easy, while you know that it would take two hours to implement that small change. I'm rambling at this point, but let me sum up by saying that I think you were reasonable; I think the other person is showing that (s)he is not, by the way (s)he is going about this; and I hope that you are able to continue to work with this organization in the future. It would be a shame for these people to destroy your love of this organization, but I know it does happen. It's just a pity you can't present them with an imaginary bill for services rendered and an additional estimate of what it would cost to make their last-minute changes -- with the appropriate up charge for expedited service! ;) Good luck! --Pamela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Given what you have said, I think you were clear. It sounds like with your background you know what you are doing. Too bad they didn't know what they wanted until too late. Is it possible your e-mail went to the Junk File by accident. That has happened to me before. Someone said they sent me something, I say I didn't get it, then I check my Junk File and there it is. This has happened with people who have sent me things in the past so I wouldn't think to look there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Y'all are so nice. My response would likely be along the lines of "Gee, I tried to pull some out of my arse, but kept coming up empty!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Do you keep copies of all sent messages? I would probably send her a short email with screen shots of the sent messages along with a short, to the point note that you are sorry she is unhappy but you did your best. I have very little patience for people like that. Also, I always use read receipt when sending emails requesting action. It allows you to track whether they have opened it as there is always the possibility it went to junk mail or they accidentally deleted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 OP, my guess is that it was not an issue of the clarity of the request, but of people not paying attention until they didn't like something. I would forward your requests for photos and state categorically that this is a "foul." Be as brief as possible in stating that. 2-3 sentences. Maybe something like this: "I agree with you that we needed more diversity in the photos which is why I sent two requests for photos and asked for feedback prior to the deadline. (See below.) We had the same goal. Had the current level of attention been given to to my requests prior to the printing, our organization would have had a brochure with diverse photos. It is unprofessional to be complaining now. " (Keeping your personal emotion out of it is usually most helpful when dealing with organizations. ) This is the best response. It tells the story with accuracy but is unemotional and straightforward. Do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 OP, my guess is that it was not an issue of the clarity of the request, but of people not paying attention until they didn't like something. I would forward your requests for photos and state categorically that this is a "foul." Be as brief as possible in stating that. 2-3 sentences. Maybe something like this: "I agree with you that we needed more diversity in the photos which is why I sent two requests for photos and asked for feedback prior to the deadline. (See below.) We had the same goal. Had the current level of attention been given to to my requests prior to the printing, our organization would have had a brochure with diverse photos. It is unprofessional to be complaining now. " (Keeping your personal emotion out of it is usually most helpful when dealing with organizations. ) Spot on. It's weird that this person keeps emailing but still hasn't sent anything useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularMom Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Chiming in to say that I've also done my share of freelance volunteer work as a graphic artist, and what I've learned is that the dynamic is very different from that of a paid freelancer. Whenever I've done freelance work and gotten paid, I've always been treated with a significantly higher level of professional courtesy. When I've done work for free, it always seems to end up similar to what you've described. It's weird, but it's true. Once money is involved, people are more motivated to act professionally and get the job done. What I ended up doing was not offering free work anymore. Instead, I offered a discounted price to my rate. It helped. Not always, not with everyone, but it did help some. Now that I'm so busy homeschooling, I don't freelance at all anymore. But I just wanted to say, I think you were reasonable, and I commiserate with you. Hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorie Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 My dh and I have been volunteers, and he is still on one committee. All I have to suggest is stop responding to her. Make it clear that you are moving on to the next issue and completely disregard her at this point until she's willing to opt for decency. I can guarantee that the rest of the group knows what's what. It's hard not to argue with someone who's clearly egging you on, but it looks bad to everyone else. It's a waste of your time to further engage in this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 If this lady is the only one complaining, what is she getting out of it? Was she supposed to be more active but is only now coming out of hiding? Maybe she's just trying to show her presence? Is there anyone else you can complain to that could ask her to shut up and/or let it drop? edited: did she want the brochure responsibility and is ticked that she didn't get it? Hm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 She is beating a dead horse. It's gone to the printer, and you've responded to her. There won't be any more pictures in this brochure whether she likes it or not. It's time to prepare for the next printing, and other posters have given some good advice on how to avoid this next time, so I won't repeat it. I understand the need to vent though. Sometimes you need to just let it all out. Vent away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 It sounded as though she expected you to find a way to get those types of pictures; that she wanted certain pictures does not mean she has those types of pictures herself. *shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Oh, the board was included on all the emails. Good advice though. That is why it is hard for me not to respond. I would respond something like, "I am really sorry that I have disappointed you. I've probably spent (X number) of volunteer hours trying to produce something that would satisfy everyone's expectations, and obviously I have failed to do that. I sort of wish I could have my (X number) of hours back! I stand by my position, though, that I sought help in terms of feedback and photos on a number of occasions and in fact asked you specifically for photos in an email of X date which is pasted below. So am distressed by your rather pointed criticism of me personally. I really did my best and invested a lot of time and energy in to this. If you truly find the product unacceptable, I wonder if it would be better to hire a professional. If you guys want to me to step down from this position, I certainly understand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 So next year, when you aren't doing this because you are too busy, they will realize what they have lost. :tongue_smilie:. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I would ask that person to stop emailing me about the subject, stating that the brochure is done there is nothing that can change that, that you did ask for photos but didn't receive any of that type and that you didn't receive many that were usable at all- in the future if they want certain photos included they need to send one that will actually work (high res) before the material is sent to print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 "I agree with you that we needed more diversity in the photos which is why I sent two requests for photos and asked for feedback prior to the deadline. (See below.) We had the same goal. Had the current level of attention been given to to my requests prior to the printing, our organization would have had a brochure with diverse photos. It is unprofessional to be complaining now. " I would ask that person to stop emailing me about the subject, stating that the brochure is done there is nothing that can change that, that you did ask for photos but didn't receive any of that type and that you didn't receive many that were usable at all- in the future if they want certain photos included they need to send one that will actually work (high res) before the material is sent to print. I agree that a response that combines the two above suggestions is perfect. I absolutely WOULD respond, though, and I absolutely WOULD NOT do this again for them next year. I'm sorry they're being so miserable about your hard work :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Good advice. I did respond to one of her emails with this: "I thought when I replied to your email about this before with, "I would love to have any pics you have to share." that would be seen as request asking to use your pictures. The file has already gone to the printer and cannot be changed at this point. I agreed that it was important to show as much variety as possible but I cannot include something I don't have. I will do my best to get some pictures of ("x") to include before our next printing. If you want to go ahead and send what you have to share, I have started a file of images to use for our printed materials, newsletter, etc." Then she sent two more emails after that still ranting and accusing me of not contacting her. :tongue_smilie:Oh, and she still hasn't sent the photos. Is there any possibility that she isn't getting your emails? I've recently had a problem in which one email company was blocking all email from another company because a spammer was a customer of the blocked company . (I"m using the word company loosely because I don't know the right technical name, but it would be like aol blocking all yahoo email, just a somewhat smaller company) The people who weren't receiving the email were never informed that there was incoming mail that was blocked because it was a company to company decision. I send multiple emails as part of my job and I need people to get them! I was having to send emails to a whole group and ask someone else to forward it to anyone with a certain email company so my communication would get through. I assume that you cc'd the board on your responses to her. I would call a member of the board that you are comfortable with and ask them to check with her if she received the same emails as the board did. Edited February 5, 2011 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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