Do people - adults - ever "really" change?

[Catwoman]

No need to be sorry - that pretty much sums up what I was thinking as I was speaking to her this evening. I just don't want to tell her that... I guess I don't want to feel bad about telling her that...

 

Well, you're in a tough spot. No matter what you say, she's not leaving the guy, and if she even thinks that he might, possibly, maybe be changing, all of a sudden you'll be the enemy who tried to break up her newly-idyllic marriage.

 

If you can continue to listen to her without saying much in response, it may be the best approach if you want to keep her as a friend. If she asks you directly what you think, you'll have to decide whether or not to tell her what she wants to hear. You can always couch a more negative response with something along the lines of how you don't have her patience and positive attitude, and if you were in her situation, you would do x, y, and z -- and then add that you don't expect her to do what you would do.

 

I'm sure you want to shake her until she comes to her senses, though.

 

Cat

[Susie in CA]

My short answer NO. My longer answer: Only if/when they loose something they love, or some other horrific experience happens in their life. And even then it is questionable.

 

In case this sounds harsh: I am speaking from experience myself.

 

Susie

[NanceXToo]

Yes. People can change. They have to want to, and it takes work, but absolutely.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

As part of my professional training, I chose to do "90 in 90" (90 AA meetings in 90 days, a common tact taken by someone really trying to quit), doing an early morning group and going to have breakfast with whomever was willing afterwards. I met many people who has such a damaged relationship with Christianity (childhood), they considered jettisoning it fundamental to their recovery.

 

I've been close to non-believers (as one) throughout my life, and the common AA feeling for a non-religious person is to view the "higher power" as the power of the group. It is not hopeless if the flawed person does not turn to Christianity.

 

:iagree:

[texasmama]

Well, you're in a tough spot. No matter what you say, she's not leaving the guy, and if she even thinks that he might, possibly, maybe be changing, all of a sudden you'll be the enemy who tried to break up her newly-idyllic marriage.

 

If you can continue to listen to her without saying much in response, it may be the best approach if you want to keep her as a friend. If she asks you directly what you think, you'll have to decide whether or not to tell her what she wants to hear. You can always couch a more negative response with something along the lines of how you don't have her patience and positive attitude, and if you were in her situation, you would do x, y, and z -- and then add that you don't expect her to do what you would do.

 

I'm sure you want to shake her until she comes to her senses, though.

 

Cat

 

:iagree: I think that when people are in these hard places and trying to make decisions, they really want someone to listen, not someone to give advice. Who really knows what is best in these sitations, after all? No one can predict the future? No one has to walk this out day by day, answering to her kids, trying to pay the bills, etc. except for her.

 

I have a friend in a bad marriage who is taking some steps to set limits after 18 years of irresponsibility on his part. The love is gone, I would have left a long time ago (not that that is the "right" thing to do - these things are very complex when you have children), and I listen, offer strength and tell her that no matter what she chooses, I will love and support her. This is her life to walk out. Only she can do it.

[Chris in VA]

Here's something we learned in treatment with ds--

Stages of Change

I found it very helpful.

 

I also think people can be willing to change, start changing, and then relapse--and relapse doesn't have to mean they haven't changed, it just means they are still changing.

I also heartily agree with Peela that she has to control herself, and not him--when someone you love is addicted to ANYTHING, you have work to do. It is not your fault that they are choosing the yucky thing, but the work you can do on yourself is all you can really DO.

 

IME, if the environment around the addicted person does not change, the likelihood that the person will maintain the changes is lessened greatly. I see it all the time in drug treatment--parents send their kid to residential, thinking resi will fix their kid. Kid comes home, parents haven't worked on their part to change the dynamic in the family, kid relapses, etc. etc.

 

There are changes HE can make, and there are changes SHE can make. Only he can make his, only she can make hers.

[Carol in Cal.]

A wise person I know says often, "People change, but seldom."

 

But I do know people who have changed. But not very many.

[coralloyd]

Yes, I have seen an incredible transformations in a few people's lives. Each and every one of them stay this way only by the grace of God.

 

They have hit the rock bottom in their life and addiction. Only then they realized that without Jesus they are done. They are committed to their relationship with the Lord.

 

I don't know if that's what you were expecting to hear...

 

:iagree: This is my dh. He was a drug addict living on the streets, in a mental institution at one point. The day he committed his life to Jesus he stopped the drugs (these weren't lite drugs). When we got married he still smoked cigarets, through a lot of hard work and determination he stopped. He doesn't drink at all anymore either. He is a COMPLETELY different man. He's an amazing husband and father. A very hard worker that owns 5 different companies.

[Catwoman]

:iagree: This is my dh. He was a drug addict living on the streets, in a mental institution at one point. The day he committed his life to Jesus he stopped the drugs (these weren't lite drugs). When we got married he still smoked cigarets, through a lot of hard work and determination he stopped. He doesn't drink at all anymore either. He is a COMPLETELY different man. He's an amazing husband and father. A very hard worker that owns 5 different companies.

 

Your dh's story is such an inspiration! He must be a very strong and determined person, and you must be incredibly proud of him.

 

I wish I could feel that Laura's friend's dh was that kind of man, but he sounds like he's nowhere near the point where he's ready to even try to change. The wife can want him to change, and he can talk about changing, but until he truly commits himself to being a better person and to doing the right things for himself and his family, he won't have the strength to resist his weaknesses.

 

And unfortunately, I can't help but feel that Laura's friend's dh is a man who doesn't really feel like he's doing anything wrong, and is too selfish to really care how his wife or kids feel. He's going to do what he wants to do, and will say whatever he needs to say in order to keep getting away with it. And one day, if he decides he doesn't need his wife's home cooking or housecleaning skills, or whatever other services she provides him, he'll stroll out the door and never look back. He has been too sly and sneaky for too many years, and unless something truly horrific happens to make him see the errors of his ways, I don't think he's ever going to change.

 

I wish more people were like your dh! He is truly a man to be admired.

 

Cat

[justamouse]

short answer--yes, yes they do. It depends on how badly they want it--and even then, many people will *want* it and not make it.

 

I can't say anything more other than my Dh is an amazing, amazing man. And I would also add that his change began when he became a Christian.

[justamouse]

:iagree: This is my dh. He was a drug addict living on the streets, in a mental institution at one point. The day he committed his life to Jesus he stopped the drugs (these weren't lite drugs). When we got married he still smoked cigarets, through a lot of hard work and determination he stopped. He doesn't drink at all anymore either. He is a COMPLETELY different man. He's an amazing husband and father. A very hard worker that owns 5 different companies.

 

That is the most wonderful story.

[goldberry]

I think that when people are in these hard places and trying to make decisions, they really want someone to listen, not someone to give advice. Who really knows what is best in these sitations, after all? No one can predict the future? No one has to walk this out day by day, answering to her kids, trying to pay the bills, etc. except for her.

 

:iagree: It can be so easy to say, "wow, you should leave" or "wow, I wouldn't put up with that". It is so often far more complicated than that. Please resist giving your friend an easy answer.

[Trish]

I absolutely think people can change, although it's probably more rare than I'd like to think. Generally, I think people become "more so" as they get older. But, if they get a large enough motivation, or that Significant Emotional Event that spurs them to seek out change, I think it can happen.

 

On the one hand I wouldn't pin my hopes unduly on this possibility, but on the other, if I saw a strong motivation or attempt to change I wouldn't assume the person will fail. But they really have to want to change for their own reasons, not simply to please someone else.

[Hedgehog]

...and I wrote my last post on my iPhone, so I couldn't write much and explain properly what I meant.

 

I do want to take a moment to address this...gently I hope:001_smile:. She could be the most beautiful, most respectful wife ever...and he would still be tempted.

 

You are absolutely right. People are only human, we all have failings.

 

I know you weren't blameing her in any way, but this "men need respect" issue causes a lot of problems in these types of situations. In a healthy marriage...it can be a good concept.

 

I believe this is because it's not understood correctly, that the right attitudes for both husband and wife are equally important. A wife respecting a husband is the right concept in any marriage, right alongside the concept that the husband should love and sacrifice himself for his wife. There are situations in life where showing respect is appropriate, not necessarily because the person is completely worthy of it but because God tells us to do it. There are situations in life where love and sacrifice are appropriate, and not necessarily because the person is worthy of that either - think of Jesus; "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". The respect, love, and sacrifice are genuine because you are doing it for God, as a pattern of the relationship between Christ and the Church. The Apostle Paul's command to husbands that they love their wives doesn't come with the caveat that he doesn't have to do it if she doesn't show him reverence; the reverse is also true. My understanding of Paul's message was that these are things we should do regardless of how the other person is behaving, because it's right and it pleases God.

 

I know from experience - my husband has cheated on me several times - that you do not need to have the love of your husband or to be able to trust him to be happy in your marriage, or to be able to show him respect and reverence. My happiness and peace exist because I know that God is my father, that Jesus is my savior, and I have faith that "all things work together for good that love God, and who are called according to his appearing". I can say with certainty that unfaithfulness hurts terribly, with all its consequences, but it also hurts our Lord when any of us sin in any way. We are all human, we all make mistakes. How could I not forgive my husband this one failing, when the Lord continually forgives me for my EVERY sin when I repent? There are many wonderful things about DH, besides being a great father to our four beautiful children. I would be very surprised if this lady that the OP knows couldn't find anything good to say about her husband.

 

I've heard it said that a man who has strayed and comes back to his wife, realises what an amazing thing he almost threw away. His devotion to his wife is often much greater than it was at first. I also realised what we had when I had nearly killed it with my anxiousness and negativity. It is hard to change! Extremely so! But VERY MUCH worth it when you do. So perhaps really, with all my writing, I am only saying what others have expressed much better, that change is possible if the motivation for it is great enough. But I hold to my view that in the case of a marriage, both parties must be on board. One can have cheated and be very sorry, and trying very hard to change, but if the other gives up in their heart and will not forgive and put it behind them, it will be a hard road for them both. The easier road - ultimately - is to recognise that we all sin, to forgive, to put it behind us, to have patience, and to have faith in God.

[Heather in Neverland]

I pray that they can. I have a brother who has been in rehab for 5 months now. I pray that he truly has changed. He says all the right things, but he always has.

 

He'll be here for Christmas. Please, God, let this Christmas go well . . .

 

I wish my brother would go to rehab. :glare: Praying your holidays go smoothly...

[simka2]

...and I wrote my last post on my iPhone, so I couldn't write much and explain properly what I meant.

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. People are only human, we all have failings.

 

 

 

I believe this is because it's not understood correctly, that the right attitudes for both husband and wife are equally important. A wife respecting a husband is the right concept in any marriage, right alongside the concept that the husband should love and sacrifice himself for his wife. There are situations in life where showing respect is appropriate, not necessarily because the person is completely worthy of it but because God tells us to do it. There are situations in life where love and sacrifice are appropriate, and not necessarily because the person is worthy of that either - think of Jesus; "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". The respect, love, and sacrifice are genuine because you are doing it for God, as a pattern of the relationship between Christ and the Church. The Apostle Paul's command to husbands that they love their wives doesn't come with the caveat that he doesn't have to do it if she doesn't show him reverence; the reverse is also true. My understanding of Paul's message was that these are things we should do regardless of how the other person is behaving, because it's right and it pleases God.

 

I know from experience - my husband has cheated on me several times - that you do not need to have the love of your husband or to be able to trust him to be happy in your marriage, or to be able to show him respect and reverence. My happiness and peace exist because I know that God is my father, that Jesus is my savior, and I have faith that "all things work together for good that love God, and who are called according to his appearing". I can say with certainty that unfaithfulness hurts terribly, with all its consequences, but it also hurts our Lord when any of us sin in any way. We are all human, we all make mistakes. How could I not forgive my husband this one failing, when the Lord continually forgives me for my EVERY sin when I repent? There are many wonderful things about DH, besides being a great father to our four beautiful children. I would be very surprised if this lady that the OP knows couldn't find anything good to say about her husband.

 

I've heard it said that a man who has strayed and comes back to his wife, realises what an amazing thing he almost threw away. His devotion to his wife is often much greater than it was at first. I also realised what we had when I had nearly killed it with my anxiousness and negativity. It is hard to change! Extremely so! But VERY MUCH worth it when you do. So perhaps really, with all my writing, I am only saying what others have expressed much better, that change is possible if the motivation for it is great enough. But I hold to my view that in the case of a marriage, both parties must be on board. One can have cheated and be very sorry, and trying very hard to change, but if the other gives up in their heart and will not forgive and put it behind them, it will be a hard road for them both. The easier road - ultimately - is to recognise that we all sin, to forgive, to put it behind us, to have patience, and to have faith in God.

 

 

First off, I am truly sorry for your pain. Those are very difficult things to go thru, and it sounds like you both have come out the other side...intact. That is wonderful!!!

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the respect issues...or maybe we are closer than we realize. Not all marriages are between 2 commited christians. So this concept of respect, honor and forgiveness are going to have to be worked towards useing a different type of language, if that is what is healthiest for both parties.

 

This doesn't mean she should go around being rude and shrewish, she can treat him with the respect she would any human. But she doesn't have to pretend to not be angry, hurt, disappointed, greiving or any number of emotions. I have had to sit with to many beautiful christian women who stayed in some sort of abusive marriage, because they believed if they continued to show respect...eventually their spouses would love them like Jesus.

 

I once had a pastor tell me that he counsels women in these situations to forgive their dhs within a few months. If they don't their dhs will get discouraged and return to their old behaviour. (This is sick thinking) Thankfully, I quickly got better proffessors :D. Forgivness is her choice, when and how is her choice. I truly contrite dh will realize he has no right to control when, how, and what her forgivness looks like.

 

Sorry, I'm rambling :D

[Mejane]

Haven't read all the replies... I think people can, but I think few people do. Example: my brother was a crack addict who was "born again." He's still a smug, self-centered *ss; the only difference is that now he's addicted to religion instead of crack.

[laughing lioness]

My dh and I were talking about this last night. He has been in the mental health field for the past 28 years (how did we get this old??). He has worked in prisons, schools at every level from eled to grad school, with clergy, the military, private practice, and done Biblical counseling. In his experience, those with a firm moral base change. Those without a firm moral foundation are looking for the pain to stop- not their behavior to change. Often, once the pain ceases, behavior returns.

Edited December 20, 2010 by laughing lioness

[coralloyd]

Thank you for the kind words about my dh. I do know that his situation is not the norm. What I believe is that no one can truly change themselves. It is God that changed my dh. My dh says God has(and still in the process) transformed his mind. He doesn't view him self as still being an addict or recovering. He views himself as a new person in Christ.

[Catwoman]

I know from experience - my husband has cheated on me several times - that you do not need to have the love of your husband or to be able to trust him to be happy in your marriage, or to be able to show him respect and reverence.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry to hear that your husband has cheated, but am more concerned that you don't feel that you need the love of your husband to be happy in your marriage. I also find it sad that you don't feel that trust is essential.

 

I absolutely respect your decisions if they work for you, and if you have a good and happy life. I just can't help but think that you deserve so much more. I'm not saying that you can't forgive a person for hurting you, and that you can't even be friends with that person; I just think that if you're going to be married to that person, it's a different story. Mutual trust, honesty, and respect are so important, and it sounds like you may not have all of those things. You seem like such a kind and giving person, and again, I'm not suggesting that you're doing anything wrong or that you need to change, but I do think you're selling yourself short by not demanding the love and respect you deserve.

 

It's great that your dh is a great father, but that wouldn't be enough for me to remain in a marriage with a dh I couldn't trust.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

Haven't read all the replies... I think people can, but I think few people do. Example: my brother was a crack addict who was "born again." He's still a smug, self-centered *ss; the only difference is that now he's addicted to religion instead of crack.

 

Give me a call when he loses the religion and gets addicted to housecleaning, yard work, and automobile maintenance. ;)

 

Cat

[Impish]

Can people change?

 

Yes.

 

And, I hope so.

 

I know how dramatically *I* have changed in the last few years. No drugs or alcohol, but fundamentally, I've changed.

 

My parents, my mother, seems to have changed. I'm praying that its true, and not another phase.

 

Of course, I'm not talking about addictions. I don't know if that makes it harder or easier.

 

Nothing is impossible for God. That's what I cling to. It gives me strength, lifts me up, and keeps me going. God has changed *me* so much that I cannot doubt what He can do for anyone else.

 

At the same time, I'm also incredibly cautious when it comes to having a recovering addict in my life. Not at my house, around my kids, not for a while. Risk a coffee shop meeting, no prob. Risk my kids, not gonna happen.

[Catwoman]

Nothing is impossible for God. That's what I cling to. It gives me strength, lifts me up, and keeps me going. God has changed *me* so much that I cannot doubt what He can do for anyone else.

 

At the same time, I'm also incredibly cautious when it comes to having a recovering addict in my life. Not at my house, around my kids, not for a while. Risk a coffee shop meeting, no prob. Risk my kids, not gonna happen.

 

I think that is a very wise and sensible approach.

 

Cat

[Hedgehog]

First off, I am truly sorry for your pain. Those are very difficult things to go thru, and it sounds like you both have come out the other side...intact. That is wonderful!!!

 

Thank you for your care and concern. I really appreciate it.

 

No - I'm not intact. The emotional scars are there, but they are healing, very slowly, as I learn more and more from the Lord about patience and forgiveness. One thing - of many - that has helped me is recognizing the truth of "forgive us our sins, as we also forgive those that sin against us". It's the memories that are the hardest to deal with, actually; you never realise what a great memory you have until you have something you really want to forget.

 

This doesn't mean she should go around being rude and shrewish, she can treat him with the respect she would any human. But she doesn't have to pretend to not be angry, hurt, disappointed, greiving or any number of emotions. I have had to sit with to many beautiful christian women who stayed in some sort of abusive marriage, because they believed if they continued to show respect...eventually their spouses would love them like Jesus.

 

It's my belief that a husband should show his wife love and sacrifice himself for her, and that a wife should respect and reverence her husband, but as I said before, this because it's right and it gives the other what the Lord created them to need, but it will not necessarily change anything. I DO have issue with the whole guilt trip of being told that if I had been a bit more this, or that, that it would have prevented DH from doing what he did - and trust me, people have actually said that to me! Rubbish! He did what he did, it was his choice to do it and his behavior is not my fault at all! But the very fact that as husband and wife, you live in the same house means that you will have an effect on the other person. In fact that will be true - more or less - for any house-sharing situation. The Bible teaches in several places that a person is affected by what and who is around them - "bad company corrupts good character" is just one example. I think it is important to acknowledge that your personality, words and actions will have an impact on the people around you (and vice versa), without taking responsibility for anything they do. Fine balance - yes?

 

A person who has been cheated on needs the space to feel their emotions, whatever they may be. For me at least, the whole thing was unlike anything I'd ever experienced, for the way I felt completely torn apart, chewed up, and dumped out onto a rollercoaster ride. I merely existed for several months, each day being okay for a few hours, and then it would suddenly hit me and I was floored all over again. I think if I'd taken myself to see a Dr, they probably would have diagnosed me with a nervous breakdown because the descriptions of it that I've read since definitely fit. I really learned the meaning of "live one day at a time" - and at the bottom of my pit, I needed the Lord as never before. That's where my peace and strength have come from - because the Lord has helped me gain it.

 

I once had a pastor tell me that he counsels women in these situations to forgive their dhs within a few months. If they don't their dhs will get discouraged and return to their old behaviour. (This is sick thinking) Thankfully, I quickly got better proffessors :D. Forgivness is her choice, when and how is her choice. I truly contrite dh will realize he has no right to control when, how, and what her forgivness looks like.

 

That is very sick thinking. Forgiveness is a continual work. Again it's working on the premise that you can change someone else, which is a nonsense. If that were so, then God will hold us accountable and guilty for other people's sins - and I don't believe Jesus taught that at all.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Hedgehog

[Hedgehog]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry to hear that your husband has cheated, but am more concerned that you don't feel that you need the love of your husband to be happy in your marriage. I also find it sad that you don't feel that trust is essential.

 

I absolutely respect your decisions if they work for you, and if you have a good and happy life. I just can't help but think that you deserve so much more. I'm not saying that you can't forgive a person for hurting you, and that you can't even be friends with that person; I just think that if you're going to be married to that person, it's a different story. Mutual trust, honesty, and respect are so important, and it sounds like you may not have all of those things. You seem like such a kind and giving person, and again, I'm not suggesting that you're doing anything wrong or that you need to change, but I do think you're selling yourself short by not demanding the love and respect you deserve.

 

It's great that your dh is a great father, but that wouldn't be enough for me to remain in a marriage with a dh I couldn't trust.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

 

:grouphug: I'm really grateful for the care and concern that speaks to me from your post.

 

You may not agree with me (and that's ok :) ) but I don't believe we actually deserve anything but death. (Perhaps this is just semantics.) "For the wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." We sin, therefore we deserve to die; but God in his great mercy and grace towards us offers us the gift of everlasting life. It would be nice to think that we are entitled to a decent life, but I'm not sure that God ever promises us this. His promises are less specific, but more far reaching:

 

 

• He has promised to provide for our basic needs

• He has promised that His grace is sufficient for us

• He has promised that we will not be overtaken by temptations, and will provide a way of escape if needed

• He has promised a victory over the power of sin and death

• He has promised that all things work together for good, to them that love God and are called

• He has promised that those who believe on the name of Jesus will be saved

• He has promised those believers eternal life

 

 

Mutual trust, honesty and respect in a marriage are to me, the ideal. They are essential for the marriage to be perfect, but how many things are perfect in this life? I know that I can be happy without those things, and happy with. (I'm actually a much happier - more contented - person than I was in the early years of our marriage, before any of this had happened.) Paul writes, "I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength." That isn't sad, Cat - it's what can be done in God's strength! I couldn't do any of this alone!

 

I'm happy to say that things are improving, although it seems that sometimes we take a step or two back instead of forward. We still have our bad times, and they're equally caused by him and me. I know that he still struggles at times with looking where he shouldn't, in the same way that I still struggle at times with laziness and anger.

 

But my relationship with my DH is so very much deeper than before. We have been through those dark times together and learned so much about ourselves and each other, and about the power of God that can work in us. He IS a great father to our children, but he is also growing to be a great husband, as I hope I am also growing to be a great wife to him. We know what we almost threw away, and increasingly I feel treasured by him and he says he feels honored by me. He will not say bad things about me when other husbands around him are joking and putting their wives down to each other; on the contrary, he is sure to say how glad he is to have me, that I am this, or do that. (I'm certainly not always praiseworthy, but he focusses on the good.) He supports me in homeschooling, in my need for space (I'm a typical introvert), in my music and language learning, phones at some point every day, shows affection, does bits around the house, and he is keen to ensure that we get on the same page regarding the kids. Whatever the past might be, and however either of us may stumble in the future, there is a tremendous amount of good in our relationship, praise God!

 

A last thought - over a difficult case of unfaithfulness at church, an older brother commented to me: "But for the grace of God, there go I." I kept it in mind as a salutary warning.

[Catwoman]

You are such an inspiration, Hedgehog! :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

[*Inna*]

Hedgehog, thank you so much for your wonderful posts. :001_smile:

[Karenciavo]

 

So, this has me thinking. Am I wrong? Do people actually change? What does it take? How does it happen? I have to say something to this woman, and what I have to say is not positive. I'd love to see her happy and content, but...I'm not sure her dh *can* do that.

 

 

Yes, I think people can change, definitely. I've experienced in my own life and I have close family members who have radically changed. Often it takes hitting rock bottom, that's not what it took for me. My change happened when I became born again, but I don't think a religious experience is required. Humility is required, love, repentance, courage, faith. And as a person who has had to forgive someone who said they changed I would encourage your friend to have an open heart, not a hardened one. If she can, it helps to think outside one's self, this person who has hurt her is also a hurting person; boundaries are good - very good in fact that person earned them, but love helps the process along.

[LauraGB]

Thanks to those of you who have shared your stories. :grouphug: So many strong women, wives, mothers...I sincerely hope your DHs (and others you have cared enough about to ride out the storm with them) know how fortunate they are to have chosen you and have you in their lives.

 

And to those of you who have struggled yourselves with change - I commend you because I can imagine how very, very difficult it must have been. :grouphug:

[TechWife]

I do want to take a moment to address this...gently I hope:001_smile:. She could be the most beautiful, most respectful wife ever...and he would still be tempted.

 

She can find ways to show respect for his positive efforts, but it has to be authentic. If he is unworthy of respect right now...he just is.

 

I know you weren't blameing her in any way, but this "men need respect" issue causes a lot of problems in these types of situations.

 

In a healthy marriage...it can be a good concept.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: