Has anyone flown lately? W/kids?

[Punchie]

Has anyone who's flown recently dealt w/the new body scanners? Did you do the scan, or did you opt out? What about your children? How would you say this compares to what airports were doing before the new scanners (say the metal detector and the wand-thingy)?

 

I have 3 trips planned w/my girls over the next several months, and I'm doing a good job of giving myself some serious anxiety over flying to the point that I am having a hard time sleeping at night.

[SweetPea]

We fly lots and have gone through the body scanner. My boys (9 & 5) did just fine. You just put your arms up, feet in the marked spots and stand still - really no big deal. I prefer this over the wand and pat down any day.

 

You'll be fine :)

[OrganicAnn]

There are several news articles about what the pat downs are like and I've read one about a person who refused both the scanners and pat down ie decided to go home only after they questioned and released him (and he was a pilot). Anyway be informed in your choices.

[DianeW88]

I'm not trying to sound snarky at all, but I am wondering.....what is causing you so much anxiety about it?

[Punchie]

No. :) It's not snarky at all. It's an invasion of privacy. I think it's morally and ethically reprehensible with no tangible benefits. B/c I have to fly, I have to deal with it. This is why I am so anxious. Reading all of stories out there about ppls' less-than-positive experiences, or the gender profiling, doesn't help ease my concerns. Plus, if I freak out about it now, it means I won't at the airport.

 

I appreciate your input regarding your experience with the new scanners.

[Trish]

There's some question as to the scanners and how harmful the radiation might prove to be down the road, particularly to kids. (my kids have been through once) Pilots' unions are recommending that this be protested (on behalf of the pilots, not the public). I've read anecdota horror stories on the patdowns, but obviously only the worst ones get talke about, so I don't know how common that is.

 

You've got my sympathy!

[Rebecca VA]

Yes, I'm concerned about this. I'm considering signing up for a vacation this spring, but I won't subject my soon-to-be 14-year-old daughter to such an intrusive scan. We may end up taking a car or train instead.

[DianeW88]

My husband just went through a pat down at the Boise airport (of all places, lol). He said it was no big deal at all and the guy doing it stated exactly where he would be touching him before he did it.

 

Personally, neither one of them (scanners or pat downs) bother me. My whole family will be flying in March and we'll just do whichover one the airport officials ask us to do.

[Puma Mom]

We are flying as a family in May. I do not plan on telling dd that the full body scanner is any different than the normal Xray machine. If I don't make it an issue, she won't either. I think that would be preferable to her than the pat down.

[jplain]

It's an invasion of privacy. I think it's morally and ethically reprehensible with no tangible benefits.

:iagree:

 

Those who think it is no big deal might want to re-read the 4th amendment to the Constitution. What's next? Cavity searches?

 

Make no mistake about it: your rights are being eroded for security theater. Why theater? Because there's no evidence that this technology is going to be any more effective than other, less invasive, and less costly methods. These scanners were expedited in response to last year's Christmas Day bomber (underwear bomber), but even TSA has admitted that these scanners probably wouldn't have caught him. However, there are a lot of people making a LOT of money selling these machines, and the pesky issue of effectiveness probably doesn't concern them too much.

 

I also have concerns about the safety of some of the scanners being used. The backscatter machines use x-rays, and their dose is concentrated at the surface of our bodies. There is reason to believe these x-rays are penetrating at least as far down as the dividing cells of your skin. Repeated exposure and/or the possibility of a scanner malfunction (leading to a much higher than intended dose) may increase the risk of skin cancer.

 

Those who claim these scanners are safe often obfuscate by claiming you receive more radiation on a plane flight. However, those are gamma rays, a whole different story. They penetrate much further into your body, dispersing the dose through a much larger volume.

 

But the news isn't all bad. Two things have made air travel safer since 9/11. The first is reinforced cockpit doors. The second is a behavioral change: passengers and crew will not go down without a serious fight.

 

What is the biggest threat to air travel safety? In my opinion, it is the fact that commercial cargo carried on passenger planes is not x-rayed. They x-ray us, and our stuff, but they let cargo on the plane with no screening. It is claimed that it would be too difficult to do, so it just isn't done. Gee, now I feel safe.

 

Punchie, I'll PM you with a few more thoughts. :)

 

Anyone else interested in learning more might want to hop over to FlyerTalk's Travel Safety/Security subforum.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain
added link

[Country Mouse]

My husband just went through a pat down at the Boise airport (of all places, lol). He said it was no big deal at all and the guy doing it stated exactly where he would be touching him before he did it.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I am not able to do the x-ray machines so every time I have flown I've had to do the pat down. It is no big deal. This is always done by a female officer and in a separate, semi-private area away from the flow of traffic. The officers seem to do their best to make it as comfortable/least invasive as possible. They use the backs of their hands on any sensitive areas and talk you through it the whole time.

[bettyandbob]

Honestly, I don't think either option is an erosion of personal rights. You are not required to get on an airplane. You can drive, take a train or a bus. Your mode of transportation is a choice.

 

These searches are for the safety of all persons on the plane. Have you come up with a better way to search and protect everyone from a suicide bomber? If you don't want to be searched don't get on the plane. It is a choice.

 

If you don't want to be searched then provide your own private transportation for you and your family alone.

 

To the op, the scanners may be easier for someone who does not want to be touched. YMMV.

[choirfarm]

:iagree:

 

I am not able to do the x-ray machines so every time I have flown I've had to do the pat down. It is no big deal. This is always done by a female officer and in a separate, semi-private area away from the flow of traffic. The officers seem to do their best to make it as comfortable/least invasive as possible. They use the backs of their hands on any sensitive areas and talk you through it the whole time.

 

But they have changed it!!! I saw on the news that they can now use the front of their hands and touch your breasts and such. The official was showing Dianne Sawyer how it had changed. YUCK. We're flying to Europe, so I guess the 5 of us will do the whole body scan...don't have much of a choice.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[jplain]

I am not able to do the x-ray machines so every time I have flown I've had to do the pat down. It is no big deal. This is always done by a female officer and in a separate, semi-private area away from the flow of traffic. The officers seem to do their best to make it as comfortable/least invasive as possible. They use the backs of their hands on any sensitive areas and talk you through it the whole time.

Unfortunately, things have changed. :(

 

First of all, TSA will do their best to make sure a same gender TSO performs your pat-down, but they will not guarantee it. Those traveling out of smaller airports with fewer TSA employees on duty may have no option but to submit to a opposite-gender patdown. (Thanks for catching my typo, Stripe! :))

 

Second, though some TSOs are still using the back of the hand, as of the end of October 2010 they are now allowed to use their palms and fingers over your whole body, including your crotch and breasts. Many have complained that these pat downs are both uncomfortable and invasive.

 

Here's one recent account from a mom who was apparently patted down for no reason other than she was traveling with formula for her baby: link.

 

She instructed me, “Spread your feet apart and hold your arms out to the side.†I obliged.

 

She patted my left arm, my right arm, my upper back and my lower back. She then said, “I need to reach in and feel along the inside of your waistband.â€

 

She felt along my waistline, moved behind me, then proceeded to feel both of my buttocks. She reached from behind in the middle of my buttocks towards my vagina area.

 

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my buttocks, or reach forward to my vagina area.

 

She then moved in front of my and touched the top and underneath portions of both of my breasts.

 

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my breasts.

 

She then felt around my waist. She then moved to the bottoms of my legs.

 

She then felt my inner thighs and my vagina area, touching both of my labia.

 

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my vagina area or my labia.

You can find many other accounts by reading through the forum I linked to in my last post, or you can find links in previous threads on this topic: here and here. Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[jplain]

Honestly, I don't think either option is an erosion of personal rights. You are not required to get on an airplane. You can drive, take a train or a bus. Your mode of transportation is a choice.

This is a ridiculous statement. In today's world, air travel is a necessity for many, both for business and personal reasons. If I don't like these procedures, now I lose my job because I refuse to fly for business? Fantastic. And my kids never get to see any of their extended family, who all live on the opposite coast? Ridiculous.

 

These searches are for the safety of all persons on the plane. Have you come up with a better way to search and protect everyone from a suicide bomber?

Where is your evidence that these measures ARE effective? What's wrong with metal detectors plus swabbing for explosives? It is very hard to get explosives past checkpoint if your hands and carry on luggage are effectively swabbed. I don't even mind hand searches of my bags. My body is where I draw the line.

 

Are you aware that many European airport security heads do not approve of these measures and feel that the US is being ridiculous in implementing them? Here's one:

 

The security boss of Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport is calling for an end to endless investment in new technology to improve airline security.

 

Marijn Ornstein said: "If you look at all the recent terrorist incidents, the bombs were detected because of human intelligence not because of screening ... If even a fraction of what is spent on screening was invested in the intelligence services we would take a real step toward making air travel safer and more pleasant."

If you don't want to be searched then provide your own private transportation for you and your family alone.

Only the elite can provide private transcontinental travel for their families.

I shouldn't have to be a billionaire to fly without violation of my civil rights.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[stripe]

Those traveling out of smaller airports with fewer TSA employees on duty may have no option but to submit to a same-gender patdown.

(I think you mean opposite-gender patdown.)

 

I don't understand how all this groping works for those wearing sanitary pads, diapers, and adult incontinence products, not to mention padded butt-enhancing panties ("booty pop" type) or pushup bras.

[brightside]

This is just another step in taking away your rights and training you as sheep who do whatever your told, without question. I'm surprised that so many people on a Classical Education forum, which touts thinking for yourself and Logic, are just bending over and saying, "Baaaaaa". :confused:

 

Saying you don't have to fly is like saying; Rosa Parks did not have to ride the bus either. :glare:

 

 

It also disturbs me that so many people are not taking this 4th amendment violation seriously.

Edited November 15, 2010 by brightside

[FeFe]

We flew last month with our 10 year old. We were in Indianapolis, La Guardia (NY), and Atlanta. We just walked through what I think was the old kind and had no problems.

[jplain]

(I think you mean opposite-gender patdown.)

 

I don't understand how all this groping works for those wearing sanitary pads, diapers, and adult incontinence products, not to mention padded butt-enhancing panties ("booty pop" type) or pushup bras.

 

Oops, thanks for the correction! I'll edit. :)

 

This situation you describe above has not been clarified by TSA. They respond that it cannot be discussed for reasons of security. However, it is rumored that once an adult or child's diaper is discovered, the individual will be let through without further investigation.

 

However, TSA also states that if "anomalies" are found during a patdown, the traveler may have to then go through an "alarm resolution patdown" before being cleared to travel. The alarm resolution patdown must be performed in a private room. It may involve some degree of strip search, though some have stated that you are supposed to be given a gown or other covering. It is conducted by 2 same gender TSO's, and you are supposed to be allowed a witness (your travel companion). If flying without a travel companion it is thought that you can request a law enforcement officer, but I've not heard any first hand reports yet.

 

Some travelers have reported being compelled to go through an alarm resolution patdown for something as innocuous as a bra strap. At least one woman reported that she was indeed instructed to remove her shirt in a private room. She suspected it had less to do with the bra strap and more to do with the fact that she was not cheerfully compliant with security procedures. Hopefully those higher up in TSA are going to nip that sort of retaliatory search in the bud.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[jplain]

This is just another step in taking away your rights and training you as sheep who do whatever your told, without question. I'm surprised that so many people on a Classical Education forum, which touts thinking for yourself and Logic, are just bending over and saying, "Baaaaaa". :confused:

Yes. If people here don't see the problem, I fear the fight is lost before it has even begun.

Wake up people! Our civil liberties are being eroded, we all need to care about it.

[brightside]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

 

- Benjamin Franklin

[lionfamily1999]

(I think you mean opposite-gender patdown.)

 

I don't understand how all this groping works for those wearing sanitary pads, diapers, and adult incontinence products, not to mention padded butt-enhancing panties ("booty pop" type) or pushup bras.

What an interesting way to "fight back." Fly on your period and opt for the pat down :lol:

[Brilliant]

Yes. If people here don't see the problem, I fear the fight is lost before it has even begun.

Wake up people! Our civil liberties are being eroded, we all need to care about it.

 

I heartily agree. I told my husband a couple of weeks ago, when the changes were first reported, that I don't ever want to fly again.

 

The new x-ray machines are being called "virtual strip searches" - I've seen the naked pictures. The new rub-downs involve what would be called molestation in any other circumstances. I shouldn't have to subject myself/my children to either of these just to get on an airplane. The American Airline Pilots Association says the new procedures are "degrading" for pilots to have to go through. I say they are degrading for anybody to go through without reasonable cause!

[KingM]

I'm flying in December. I'm going to opt out. It's unpleasant, but it's a form of passive resistance. If enough people resist and the airlines see people not flying, there will be a change.

 

The whole thing is ridiculous. There are 20,000 flights a day in the U.S. Since 9/11 there have been roughly 60,000,000 flights in the U.S., and not one was brought down by a terrorist. There have only been a handful of attempts, but these are enough to make us spend billions of dollars and surrender our personal liberties.

[Sophia]

The new x-ray machines are being called "virtual strip searches" - I've seen the naked pictures. The new rub-downs involve what would be called molestation in any other circumstances. I shouldn't have to subject myself/my children to either of these just to get on an airplane. The American Airline Pilots Association says the new procedures are "degrading" for pilots to have to go through. I say they are degrading for anybody to go through without reasonable cause!

 

I have pre-teen and teen age daughters.

I cannot imagine that anyone would say it's no big deal for your children to go through a naked body scanner or be groped by a stranger in public.

Op, I'd be anxious too.

I don't think all airports have them yet, hopefully your airport won't have them in place when you travel.

[lionfamily1999]

I heartily agree. I told my husband a couple of weeks ago, when the changes were first reported, that I don't ever want to fly again.

 

The new x-ray machines are being called "virtual strip searches" - I've seen the naked pictures. The new rub-downs involve what would be called molestation in any other circumstances. I shouldn't have to subject myself/my children to either of these just to get on an airplane. The American Airline Pilots Association says the new procedures are "degrading" for pilots to have to go through. I say they are degrading for anybody to go through without reasonable cause!

That's what really bothers me. If our police officers attempted that sort of search without first arresting someone they'd have been sued immediately.

[Brilliant]

I'm flying in December. I'm going to opt out. It's unpleasant, but it's a form of passive resistance. If enough people resist and the airlines see people not flying, there will be a change.

 

By "opt out" do you mean refuse both the scanner and the groping? So you are willing to not get on the plane?

[MaMa2005]

No problems with scanners when we flew the end of September. DH got scanned, but DS and I went through the regular detector. I think they had pity on me as we fly carry on only and I was trying to navigate three bags and backpacks as well as DS (who wants to see everything the TSA people are doing! :w00t: )

[MBM]

Wednesday, November 24th is National Opt-Out Day:

 

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/national-opt-out/

 

Most TSA agents are decent individuals, but some take their power too far. Recently, one of them was *joking* with passengers by planting a fake bag of cocaine in their carry-ons and then asking them if it was theirs. All in jest, of course. Hello? I think that's the sort of thing that worries passengers.

ETA: My daughter flies at least twice a week. She chooses to get scanned.

Edited November 15, 2010 by MBM
more info

[KingM]

By "opt out" do you mean refuse both the scanner and the groping? So you are willing to not get on the plane?

 

I'm going to opt out of the scanner and suffer the pat down. I can't decide about my children. My choices are child pornography or child molestation. Or at least, that's what they'd be called in any other context. I guess I'll go the pornography route.

 

I can't believe this thing is going through. Some sort of collective insanity has taken hold of us.

[Sophia]

Has anyone who's flown recently dealt w/the new body scanners? Did you do the scan, or did you opt out? What about your children? How would you say this compares to what airports were doing before the new scanners (say the metal detector and the wand-thingy)?

 

I have 3 trips planned w/my girls over the next several months, and I'm doing a good job of giving myself some serious anxiety over flying to the point that I am having a hard time sleeping at night.

 

If enough people do this, maybe security regs will change.

[merry gardens]

Honestly, I don't think either option is an erosion of personal rights. You are not required to get on an airplane. You can drive, take a train or a bus. Your mode of transportation is a choice.

 

These searches are for the safety of all persons on the plane. Have you come up with a better way to search and protect everyone from a suicide bomber? If you don't want to be searched don't get on the plane. It is a choice.

 

If you don't want to be searched then provide your own private transportation for you and your family alone.

 

To the op, the scanners may be easier for someone who does not want to be touched. YMMV.

I don't want my children or me seen naked or touched in private places. Not an erosion of privacy???? Since when has it become okay for adults to touch children's private parts?

 

We don't have to fly, but flying has become a large part of our American culture and it has changed how and even where we live. I have family members living in another state. I was planning on visiting them and now my choice is either:

a) six days in the car

b) subject my children to naked body scanners and/or physical touching by adults

c) don't see my family

 

 

How did we get to this point?????

[Mejane]

Seen this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/14/tsa-ejects-oceanside-man-airport-refusing-security/

Edited November 15, 2010 by Mejane

[i.love.lucy]

I've read through all of this and I am still not sure what I am supposed to do. My family lives 1500 miles away. I either allow this invasion of privacy and rights, or refuse and don't fly. So my choice then is to drive or take a train. I don't have that kind of time or money.

 

I agree with someone who posted in the comments of one of those articles that I think there is too much focus on the airlines. With all eyes and resources there, that's not where terrorists are likely to attack again anyways. That article with the guy from San Diego said "stop treating your passengers as criminals and start treating us as assets" or something along those lines. Amen!

 

I don't have air travel planned again until next Spring, so I will be watching closely to see what happens with all of this during this busy travel season.

[lisabelle]

Is this a mandatory thing? I flew last weekend between Seattle and Sacramento and went through the regular x-ray each way. Dh is currently at the airport waiting to board a flight to Boston and went through the regular x-ray as well.

[Mabelen]

Are you aware that many European airport security heads do not approve of these measures and feel that the US is being ridiculous in implementing them? Here's one:

 

Quote:

The security boss of Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport is calling for an end to endless investment in new technology to improve airline security.

 

Marijn Ornstein said: "If you look at all the recent terrorist incidents, the bombs were detected because of human intelligence not because of screening ... If even a fraction of what is spent on screening was invested in the intelligence services we would take a real step toward making air travel safer and more pleasant."

 

 

 

As far as I know, Amsterdam Schiphol airport is one of several airports worldwide that have had the body scanners in place for several years now, so I am not sure how to reconcile that fact with your interpretation of the quote above. Are they really backtracking?

 

It definitely is not just the US! These body scanners have been around for a while now, it's just that they are becoming widespread in the US now.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Mabelen

[Mama Geek]

I have thought about flying to Florida to handle some business with my dd. Because of what has gone on recently that is now out of the question. I could have flown for less than $100 each way, but the savings as compared to driving isn't worth it. I am currently in VA but FL is still my home. After the security changes due to 9/11 I had kind of decided I wouldn't fly anywhere that I could drive in 2 days. I am now at the point that unless I have to go overseas, I won't fly. The situation is really sad and it would be nice to see some levelheaded decisions change what has happened with the TSA.

[Mama Geek]

Is this a mandatory thing? I flew last weekend between Seattle and Sacramento and went through the regular x-ray each way. Dh is currently at the airport waiting to board a flight to Boston and went through the regular x-ray as well.

 

It is something that is being implemented so not all the airports have them yet and the ones that do so far are only picking a sampling of people to go through them at least that is my understanding from what I have read about it.

[brightside]

Is this a mandatory thing? I flew last weekend between Seattle and Sacramento and went through the regular x-ray each way. Dh is currently at the airport waiting to board a flight to Boston and went through the regular x-ray as well.

 

It is a random screening, my husband was pulled in Boston/Logan last week. He refused the scan and got the pat down. The agent used the front of his hand, my husband said it was quite invasive.

 

My husband finds it ironic that he had to submit to this to get home, when he doesn't have to go through this to do his job (working in/around secured facilities in DC) and he holds a government clearance.

[Punchie]

I don't know what I am going to do. Probably go to the airport super early to give us enough time to go through the pat down process. I'll be dealing w/5 airports on my 3 trips. As of right now, 2 do NOT have the body scanners. I'm debating bringing my credentials as my photo ID. I'm also hoping that I'm overreacting and that we'll make it through with our dignity intact. I don't know what I'll do if I opt for the pat down and they don't provide a woman to do it. DH will do the body scanner, I believe. But even he has issues w/the ineffectiveness of it catching explosives and of the radiation (cumulative effects). I hope we aren't punished into missing our flights by opting out. I guess as long as I can get on the next flight, it will be fine. I've missed flights before.

 

This is an interesting link regarding the effectiveness of the scanners:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/01/06/5-reasons-body-scanners-might-not-solve-our-terrorism-problem/

[jplain]

As far as I know, Amsterdam Schiphol airport is one of several airports worldwide that have had the body scanners in place for several years now, so I am not sure how to reconcile that fact with your interpretation of the quote above. Are they really backtracking?

Those scanners were installed before she took over the job of airport security boss. So in a sense, yes, it is backtracking.

 

It definitely is not just the US! These body scanners have been around for a while now, it's just that they are becoming widespread in the US now.

The difference is that TSA intends for every US checkpoint to have scanners, and for them to be used as the primary screening tool. They intend to remove all metal detectors and replace them with scanners as soon as they can get them manufactured, installed, and operating. If TSA has their way, in the near future your only options will be either to get scanned or receive an "enhanced" pat down (their words).

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[joannqn]

What an interesting way to "fight back." Fly on your period and opt for the pat down :lol:

 

This got me thinking. Because my period is so heavy, I have to combine a menstrual cup and overnight pad to leave my house on my 2-3 heavy days. Would the scanners see that and subject me to a very messy cavity search?

 

I guess I could also fly without any menstrual protection and opt out of the full body scan. That would be fun, huh?

 

 

We almost never fly. We don't have anywhere to go, nor do we have the money. It's a good thing because I wouldn't be subjecting my modest daughter to this.

[wapiti]

My DH flies very frequently (1-2 roundtrips per week, probably for the entire next year) and he is VERY concerned about this, in the long term, though he hasn't been chosen for the extra screening yet. In fact, he's probably going through security again as I write this. He's worried about the radiation and he sure doesn't want the pat down. Right now we have no plans to fly the family, but he's pretty concerned about the kids. Knock on wood that we don't have to fly anytime soon, till the kinks get worked out of this.

[jplain]

Is this a mandatory thing? I flew last weekend between Seattle and Sacramento and went through the regular x-ray each way. Dh is currently at the airport waiting to board a flight to Boston and went through the regular x-ray as well.

 

At some checkpoints there are no scanners installed, or the scanners are not functioning. At those checkpoints, it is close to business as usual: metal detector followed by pat down if the metal detector alarmed.

 

At other checkpoints, there are only scanners. There are 2 types: millimeter wave and backscatter x-ray. Millimeter wave machines look like plexiglass octagon phone booths. Backscatter x-ray machines consist of one or two very large boxes that you stand between. You can opt out of the scanner by saying "I opt out," and then you will receive an enhanced pat down. Be prepared for a long wait for a screener to do your pat down. In at least one airport (Seattle), passengers have reported that TSOs have been announcing that the scanners are perfectly safe, and that anyone who opts out of the scanner may face a long delay. Coersion, perhaps? Edited to add, similar tactic used at LAX today: link.

 

At other checkpoints, there are still both metal detectors and scanners. Travelers report that typically one of every 4 passengers goes through the scanner, while the others are directed to the metal detector. The scanner takes quite a bit longer than walking through a metal detector, so until they get more of them installed, it is too time-consuming to funnel everyone through the scanners at high-volume checkpoints.

 

At checkpoints with both scanners and metal detectors, it is supposed to be random. Some travelers have protested that it sure doesn't *look* random, with teenage girls and women making up a higher than expected percentage of those being waved through the scanners. Others are concerned that attractive young women are disproportionately selected to go through the scanners. A disturbing second-hand account can be found here: TSO saying "heads up, got a cutie for you." The cutie was an 18yo flying with her pilot father. He is reportedly taking his complaint to his employer.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[jplain]

This got me thinking. Because my period is so heavy, I have to combine a menstrual cup and overnight pad to leave my house on my 2-3 heavy days. Would the scanners see that and subject me to a very messy cavity search?

No, the scanner will not see your menstrual cup or the inside of any other body cavities. Both backscatter and millimeter wave scanners should only "see" the surface of your body. However, some of the backscatter images clearly show leg bones, knee caps, and other superficial bones (facial, sometimes arm bones), so obviously some of the x-rays are penetrating a little farther than the official party line.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[lionfamily1999]

This got me thinking. Because my period is so heavy, I have to combine a menstrual cup and overnight pad to leave my house on my 2-3 heavy days. Would the scanners see that and subject me to a very messy cavity search?

 

I guess I could also fly without any menstrual protection and opt out of the full body scan. That would be fun, huh?

 

 

We almost never fly. We don't have anywhere to go, nor do we have the money. It's a good thing because I wouldn't be subjecting my modest daughter to this.

Yum-o :p

 

I would be hard pressed to not become violent if someone touched my children in the manner that has been described by so many others.

 

No, the scanner will not see your menstrual cup or the inside of any other body cavities. Both backscatter and millimeter wave scanners should only "see" the surface of your body. However, some of the backscatter images clearly show shin bones and other superficial bones (facial, sometimes arm bones), so obviously some of the x-rays are penetrating a little farther than the official party line.

? I thought the whole point was that they could see if you were 'hiding' something. If it's a matter of hanging something off of your body why are the pat downs so invasive?

[jplain]

If it's a matter of hanging something off of your body why are the pat downs so invasive?

One TSA employee as much as admitted that the new, more invasive pat downs are intended to discourage people from objecting to whole body imaging.

 

From a columnist at The Atlantic:

At BWI, I told the officer who directed me to the back-scatter that I preferred a pat-down. I did this in order to see how effective the manual search would be. When I made this request, a number of TSA officers, to my surprise, began laughing. I asked why. One of them -- the one who would eventually conduct my pat-down -- said that the rules were changing shortly, and that I would soon understand why the back-scatter was preferable to the manual search. I asked him if the new guidelines included a cavity search. "No way. You think Congress would allow that?"

I asked [the TSA employee] if he was looking forward to conducting the full-on pat-downs. "Nobody's going to do it," he said, "once they find out that we're going to do."

Link to whole article. Warning, contains adult humor. But it is worth it. :D

 

Edited to add another quote, this one from a former TSO who wrote a blog post called Shut Up And Get In The Scanner:

The Invasive Pat Down

Ok that one is bull****. It is a terror tactic by TSA to get you to walk through the more thorough body scanner. I can’t defend TSA on this one. I have talked to the TSA officers and it is no more effective than the old pat down procedure. They tested it out with trainers and each other. It is purely a terror tactic by TSA. Shame on TSA and anyone who has to get one should write a complaint in afterward. You still have to get it though if you want to get on the plane. Throwing a fit will not get you out of it.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jplain

[lionfamily1999]

One TSA employee as much as admitted that the new, more invasive pat downs are intended to discourage people from objecting to whole body imaging.

 

From a columnist at The Atlantic:

 

 

Link to whole article. Warning, contains adult humor. But it is worth it. :D

I'm really surprised that people are putting up with this at all.

 

I know we all need to fly, but I remember when gas prices became truly prohibitive. Suddenly, because it made NO SENSE to pay so much to drive to work (when the costs outweighed the benefits), people found out they didn't really have to. This seems to have crossed the line from a hassle into pretty well a brutal joke on the consumer.

[Daisy]

It is frustrating. My family lives 3,000 miles away. We've already decided we won't be flying until they change this policy. I will not tolerate my children being subjected to either method of screening.

 

I wish more people would make a stand for our rights. TSA could try strong arm tactics all they want but if people stop flying, things are going to change.

 

I like what John Tyner said this, "every terrorist act on an airplane has been halted by passengers. It's time to stop treating passengers like criminals and start treating them as assets,"