"Children killed or abused within their homeschooling adoptive family"

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

It's a long story about how this info. came to my attention, but I am profoundly grieved and shook up by these accounts. Children abused and held captive by their parents is the main concern my BIL has for homeschooling being legal or at the very least without strict governmental oversight. During that conversation was the first time and only time I have ever heard my BIL curse, and we've had some heated conversation over the past. I could find no evidence at this site of hostility toward homeschooling or even further comments on these accounts, but the argument must be out there, somewhere.

 

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/20821

 

How can this happen? Dear God, what can I do? How could the many recent accounts in the news of homeschooling parents murdering their adopted children effect homeschooling as we know it?

Edited October 10, 2010 by mommyjen

[Jean in Newcastle]

Freedom requires virtue and responsibility. These parents are under the same laws that ps parents are under. Ps kids are often abused too. I remember as a teacher being fairly sure that one child was sexually abused but since I couldn't prove it and CPS found no hard evidence when they were notified, nothing was done. I think that communities have a responsibility to help to protect children as well. So do families (I'm talking extended family in this case).

[LauraGB]

What the heck kind of website is that?

 

I see pedophiles and child abusers along side bolded labels like "homeschooling" and "fundamentalist faith". What kind of tracking is that?

 

I'm not sure you have to prove anything to BIL. If he thinks this lowly of you and your family, you've got bigger fish to fry with him. Quite possibly he's got a screw loose himself.

 

My gosh, if my family put forth a tracking site like that to disprove homeschooling, I think I'd flip my lid.

[Liz CA]

Jen, I think it's a sign of a generally deteriorating society. Or perhaps, things are more out there for us to read as the media covers much more now than they used to.

 

A horror homeschooling story happened here in CA, less than 25 miles from where I live. It's heartbreaking and unbelievable.

 

There is probably little that can be done other than pray God's protection on all children...and pray for a return of common sense, decency, character growth and self-control and much more.

 

[Renee in NC]

It's a long story about how this info. came to my attention, but I am profoundly grieved and shook up by these accounts. Children abused and held captive by their parents is the main concern my BIL has for homeschooling being legal or at the very least without strict governmental oversight. During that conversation was the first time and only time I have ever heard my BIL curse, and we've had some heated conversation over the past. I could find no evidence at this site of hostility toward homeschooling or even further comments on these accounts, but the argument must be out there, somewhere.

 

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/20821

 

How can this happen? Dear God, what can I do? How could the many recent accounts in the news of homeschooling parents murdering their adopted children effect homeschooling as we know it?

 

Compile a list of all the children abused/killed by their parents over the past 20 years that were NOT homeschooled and see if it still seems as shocking as it is. Not that ANY abuse isn't shocking, but that abuse comes in all forms and all types of families (adoptive or not.)

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

What the heck kind of website is that?

 

I see pedophiles and child abusers along side bolded labels like "homeschooling" and "fundamentalist faith". What kind of tracking is that?

 

I'm not sure you have to prove anything to BIL. If he thinks this lowly of you and your family, you've got bigger fish to fry with him. Quite possibly he's got a screw loose himself.

 

My gosh, if my family put forth a tracking site like that to disprove homeschooling, I think I'd flip my lid.

 

Just for the record, my BIL did not link me to this site! Sorry, I should have clarified. I am so with you...I thought the tracking things was really strange. They specifically identified those who were fundamentalists. :confused: I didn't see anything else there like that though.

 

I found this on another forum discussing a 4 yo who was recently murdered (although that may not have been her adopted moms intent) by her adoptive, homeschooling mom. The daughter had been adopted from China. She had only been with her adoptive family for a few months if I have my facts straight.

 

I wonder if the "small and developmentally behind" thing was being from China or if they were not caring for her the way she ought to be... I know a lot of people homeschool but this is one of the reasons I personally don't like it and think it is a very bad idea, if someone is abusing a child there is no one else that child can go to for help. Maybe Mom is fine, but when she isn't around Dad abuses (or vice versa). We've all seen by the Caylee Anthony case how easy it is for family to buy complete and total BS for YEARS... "Oh, she walked into a doorknob, she "tripped" down the stairs..." etc. Teachers are trained to spot these things and they don't have the emotional belief in your immediate family that you do. More kids are harmed by their own families than by violence at schools, strangers, etc. Ok, I'll get down off of my soapbox now, sorry I hope I don't offend any HSers...

 

Yikes!

Edited October 10, 2010 by mommyjen

[Joanne]

How can this happen? Dear God, what can I do? How could the many recent accounts in the news of homeschooling parents murdering their adopted children effect homeschooling as we know it?

 

First, you "owe" your BIL nothing in terms of justification, defense or even discussion.

 

That said, here are my thoughts about homeschooling, adoption, abuse.

 

I believe that over-adoption is a disorder. Don't shoot me. I believe it's a disorder like Munchausen by Proxy. There are people who adopt children. There is a higher percentage of children with special needs in the adoption community. In the adopting community, the reasons for adopting are diverse, but include an percentage of people who adopt for the wrong reasons. And there are people who are not equipped to deal with the sometimes tremendous realities of need in these children.

 

Homeschooling is counter cultural. As such, it attracts people for a variety of reasons, and some of those people/reasons are extreme.

 

Combine the percentage of unhealth, multiples of special needs kids and parents who are not well and you get abused and dead children.

 

There IS a statistically concerning percentage of "abused" or "dead" adopted kids from homeschooling families. The religious element comes in because of the competitiveness that develops in some unwell "Christians" who adopt (and over-adopt).

[Tohru]

Some parents abuse their children and just keep them at home, but are not considered "homeschoolers." It's just that now they can have an excuse as to why their child is at home...however I remember way back- there were several stories of parents locking their children up for years, and the children where never in public school, but this was before homeschooling was legal, so they couldn't use it as an excuse. I hope that makes sense.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Jen, I think it's a sign of a generally deteriorating society. Or perhaps, things are more out there for us to read as the media covers much more now than they used to.

 

A horror homeschooling story happened here in CA, less than 25 miles from where I live. It's heartbreaking and unbelievable.

 

There is probably little that can be done other than pray God's protection on all children...and pray for a return of common sense, decency, character growth and self-control and much more.

 

 

If I ever had a reason to pray, it is now. :crying: I understand BIL reaction now. I don't agree with his conclusions, but I understand his concern, albeit a little misguided IMO. BTW, I thought your comment on the coconut oil thread was too funny! ;)

Edited October 10, 2010 by mommyjen

[HS Mom in NC]

As an the parent of 2 biological children and one internationally adopted child from S. Korea I have to point out that the failure here is with PLACEMENT social workers.

 

These cases involved many children being adopted over the course of many years and anyone who has been through a legitimate adoption process knows what home studies and follow ups with physicians is like. Whatever agencies did the study and followed up are grossly negligent here. It even talked about illegal placements. If you want to be angry, feel free to be angry with the agencies here second to the adoptive parents themselves. Homeschooling regulation isn't going to stop this.

 

Let's remember that when a child is murdered in the US, it statistically most likely to be the parent or mother's boyfriend, and the vast majority of parents and boyfriends who murder children are not homeschoolers OR adoptive parents. The vast majority of children suffering from abuse and neglect (many of whom end up in the foster care system) are not the children of homeschoolers or adoptive parents. Most abused children are in the PS school systems their whole lives. PS are the the most heavily government regulated educational choice there is. You notice it hasn't put an end to child abuse in its ranks.

 

One case noted that the parents were advocates of attachment therapy. Actual attachment therapists do not abuse or advocate abusive behaviors toward adoptees. It is a specialty of licensed psychology professionals. There have been a few hairbrained schemes by nut jobs calling what they do attachment therapy, but just because they borrow the term from legitimate trained professionals in the medical community, does not mean they are actually doing real attachment therapy.

 

Your BIL is a a victim of an emotional ploy by someone who clearly has little knowledge of the big picture. His ignorance is easily manipulated. Is generally a more emotionally driven person vs. an analytical/logical type?

 

I would also add that an all too high number of people jump into adoption without doing their homework. They spend little to no time interviewing medical professionals that deal with adoptees, parents of adoptees who had both good and bad experiences, and reading up on the medical research about issues typical to children from various adoption scenarios before they begin adopting a child. We did our homework (piles and piles of it for more than a year) before we leaped in because both our adopted child and biological children were entitled to conscientious parents.

 

Sexual abuse among foster children by foster parents is rampant, and it is not legal to homeschool a foster child where I come from. I had a friend who had a foster son (age 6) and according to his social worker, three THREE! of his former foster parents had sexually abused him, "That we know of" she said. The social worker admitted that frequent sexual abuse was a dirty little secret in the foster care system. The standards for foster parent certification (I got mine in 2005) is shockingly low. I don't see that being posted on this website.

 

There are lots of bad people in the world. Let's give law enforcement the resources they need to prosecute, incarcerate, and execute these evil people.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Homeschool Mom in AZ, you said it very very well.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

There are lots of bad people in the world. Let's give law enforcement the resources they need to prosecute, incarcerate, and execute these evil people.

 

:iagree:

 

I think it is dangerous to take some of the labels that could be applied to an abuser and tar others from those groups. There have been heart rending and sad abuse and murder stories that involve homeschoolers, public schoolers, teachers, soccer coaches, scout leaders, church leaders, relatives and neighbors.

 

That doesn't mean that schooling options, sports, churches, etc need to be outlawed to prevent abuse.

 

It does mean that when we as adults suspect that something isn't as it should be, that we should speak up, even at the risk of hurting a friendship or seeming overreactive.

[2cents]

First, BIL needs to realize that you can find 'alarming' statistics for anything you want to vilify. There are just as many children (volumes more) that are abused that are in ps etc. I don't see any evidence in that website that would lead me to believe that there is any overwhelming correlation between homeschooling and adoptive parents. It looks like an alarmist site IMO. Someone's attempt to support a preconceived notion. BIL has a point that there needs to be better follow-up management on foster family placements but that has nothing to do with homeschooling. Any oversight is the fault of the service agency. I've worked in social services and I've seen the result of shabby casework and absent follow-up. This happens in across the board.

[pdalley]

Aren't these people concerned about the alarming rates of kids in school that are killing themselves? Four at one Ohio High School alone. Yet I'm supposed to believe teacher's can 'spot' things that are wrong and get kids help? Please....

 

There are whack jobs in every segment of society. We cannot eradicate them. It's just not possible.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Compile a list of all the children abused/killed by their parents over the past 20 years that were NOT homeschooled and see if it still seems as shocking as it is. Not that ANY abuse isn't shocking, but that abuse comes in all forms and all types of families (adoptive or not.)

 

:iagree:

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

I really appreciate the insight here from ya'll. Learned a few things through your post about the system and the real issues at hand. I'll be better equipped if this ever comes up again! BIL mentioned this over a year ago. He has a college degree and high profile job. His wife is a teacher as well. ;) The are very humanitarian, so to speak. After Katrina hit, they went for 6 weeks or so to help and do what they could in that part of the country. I appreciate that about them. I do get concerned when they start saying that guns, homeschooling, etc. are the problems though! If they knew dh had a gun in the house they would flip. My SIL is very disturbed if my boys are playing and it involves imaginary guns. I try to be sensitive to this and have talked to the boys and let them know SIL position and that it makes her uncomfortable, so try and not 'shoot' around her. The thing is my boys may only 'shoot' each other if they are role playing and one person is the bad guy and they are protecting themselves or others, or if someone is a wild animal and they are protecting themselves, family, etc., or if they are hunting(which they are opposed to...cruel in my BIL and SIL opinion!!!) Family. Crazy stuff.

Edited October 10, 2010 by mommyjen

[RoughCollie]

Some parents abuse their children and just keep them at home, but are not considered "homeschoolers." It's just that now they can have an excuse as to why their child is at home...however I remember way back- there were several stories of parents locking their children up for years, and the children where never in public school, but this was before homeschooling was legal, so they couldn't use it as an excuse. I hope that makes sense.

 

:iagree: Parents can have more than one reason for keeping their children at home. IMO, if any of the reasons are to make it easier to conduct illegal activities, they are not homeschoolers, by definition.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

:iagree: Parents can have more than one reason for keeping their children at home. IMO, if any of the reasons are to make it easier to conduct illegal activities, they are not homeschoolers, by definition.

 

So what do you call these people? Is there a term? How can we better differentiate to those who are, ahem, confused? ;)

[RoughCollie]

So what do you call these people? Is there a term? How can we better differentiate to those who are, ahem, confused? ;)

 

Murderers or child abusers, depending on the situation, just like what we call these perps whose kids are in PS. I consider educational neglect to be child abuse, too.

 

Once a person's behavior reaches this point, I don't think that labeling them homeschoolers or public schoolers is reasonable.

Edited October 10, 2010 by RoughCollie

[kalanamak]

 

I believe that over-adoption is a disorder.

 

:iagree: Any human behavior can be taken to the point of perversion.

[PiCO]

For the most part, these people aren't homeschooling. They are adopting kids so they can abuse them, because these people are psychologically imbalanced.

 

Some people say they are homeschoolers, but they are not actually schooling their children.

 

There are some cases of actual homeschoolers abusing &/or murdering their children, but all the cases I've heard of the parent(s) are also psychotic. There are also many psychotic abusive parents who do not homeschool.

[mcconnellboys]

Sick or evil people who obtain children through adoption if they cannot have their own so that they can perpetrate crimes upon them has nothing to do with homeschooling.

 

These people were not ever good parents who decided to homeschool their children for their sakes and then somehow snapped and harmed them. These people obtained children with the intent of doing them harm and used "homeschooling" as an alibi for keeping them in the house so that they could abuse them.

 

Situations like this have nothing to do with "homeschooling", save that it was used as an alibi.... Agencies who handle adoptions should do a better, more thorough job of screening and follow-ups to better protect the children they offer from predators.

[lionfamily1999]

I think there are a lot of "fails" on that site, the least of which is homeschooling. Like another poster said, these people were NOT homeschooling, they were using it as a cover. I do, however, see fails where child protective services is concerned. Some of these people were under investigation, but apparently nothing could be done. I see, as another poster said, adoption agency fails all over the place. People adopting ten or twenty children and no one wonder. People adopting children and beating them to death within months.

 

As for pointing to therapy, fundamentalism or homeschooling as some sort of cause, I'm pretty sure they're just excuses to continue abusing children and hiding them.

 

Compile a list of all the children abused/killed by their parents over the past 20 years that were NOT homeschooled and see if it still seems as shocking as it is. Not that ANY abuse isn't shocking, but that abuse comes in all forms and all types of families (adoptive or not.)

:iagree:

I believe that over-adoption is a disorder.

That's what I thought, seeing '20 adopted' '14 adopted' &tc.

[jujsky]

3 things I noticed:

 

1. Several of these private organizations were ones that would not even speak to us about adoption because we weren't Christian. Being Christian does NOT necessarily equal being a competent parent. Sorry -- I still have a major bug up my butt about essentially being told I'm not good enough to adopt by "Christian" organizations when I love my children and don't beat and starve them.

 

2. It sounds as though many of these cases lacked oversight. I'm not talking about overseeing homeschooling, but overseeing the adoptions. In some cases social workers were checking up on families and missed things. In other cases it sounded as though foster care children were being homeschooled. How is that possible? I didn't think any states allowed that until an adoption was finalized.

 

3. I've said it a million times and I will say it a million more: more education and support needs to be given to families before they are allowed to adopt and AFTER the adoption takes place. Adopted children often come with issues and baggage that most people mistake for poor behavior instead of neurological or psychological issues. Parents don't know what signs to look for, often don't know what to do with a child with these problems, and even when they seek help they often can't find any. Visiting the home within a month or so of the adoption and then 6 months later in addition to once or twice before placement is NOT sufficient, IMHO. Where my son was adopted at 6 months, his FAS didn't appear in any sort of recognizable form until he was 3 -- and I knew what to look for! I read many books on adoption-related issues and attended many conferences. How many people don't and are faced with a child at 3 who is behaving like a monster? We were told by more people than I can count that he was being a "typical 3 year-old boy," but because I had educated myself I felt there was more to his behavior. I was right. While we were educated enough (and had insurance that was decent enough at the time) to seek out help on our own, many people aren't. Those people could benefit from additional visits from a social worker. It would have been nice for us too, just to make sure we were on the right track with everything. There may have been community resources we weren't aware of that a social worker might know about.

 

To me it doesn't sound like there needs to be more oversight when it comes to homeschooling, but more oversight when it comes to adoption. I met many people trying to adopt when we were trying to adopt. Very few knew about the potential issues to look for or about the services (few and far between unless your insurance is good) that's available in our state.

[kalanamak]

.

Edited October 10, 2010 by kalanamak
how did that happen?

[angela in ohio]

If you look up the government statistics on child abuse and mistreatment, teachers are not the ones reporting most cases, so going to school isn't really going to help anyway. For example, here's the data from 2007. I think it's sad that this means that many abused children ARE in school, and the teachers are missing it.

 

BTW, the full report is here. I think it is good for every parent to read the section on "Perpetrators." It is surprising who the actual threats to our dc are.

[Tabrett]

Quote:

I wonder if the "small and developmentally behind" thing was being from China or if they were not caring for her the way she ought to be... I know a lot of people homeschool but this is one of the reasons I personally don't like it and think it is a very bad idea, if someone is abusing a child there is no one else that child can go to for help. Maybe Mom is fine, but when she isn't around Dad abuses (or vice versa). We've all seen by the Caylee Anthony case how easy it is for family to buy complete and total BS for YEARS... "Oh, she walked into a doorknob, she "tripped" down the stairs..." etc. Teachers are trained to spot these things and they don't have the emotional belief in your immediate family that you do. More kids are harmed by their own families than by violence at schools, strangers, etc. Ok, I'll get down off of my soapbox now, sorry I hope I don't offend any HSers...

 

This is simply not true. I NEVER had any training on how to spot child abuse while receiving my teaching degree. Teachers are not social workers.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Tabrett

[Mergath]

Obviously, we all agree that most homeschoolers don't abuse their children. With that said, there are a number of people who use homeschooling as a cover to abuse their children, and it would be heartless of the homeschooling community as a whole to simply brush that off because most of us are good parents.

 

If I have to deal with more goverment regulation so that other children can be saved from the horrors of abuse, so be it. I would gladly take my dd in for mandated routine physicals, or allow school officials to come to my home, or whatever, if it means that one less child will have to have a stick shoved down his throat, or sleep chained in the garage, or starve to death.

[Thea]

I wonder if the "small and developmentally behind" thing was being from China or if they were not caring for her the way she ought to be... I know a lot of people homeschool but this is one of the reasons I personally don't like it and think it is a very bad idea, if someone is abusing a child there is no one else that child can go to for help. Maybe Mom is fine, but when she isn't around Dad abuses (or vice versa). We've all seen by the Caylee Anthony case how easy it is for family to buy complete and total BS for YEARS... "Oh, she walked into a doorknob, she "tripped" down the stairs..." etc. Teachers are trained to spot these things and they don't have the emotional belief in your immediate family that you do. More kids are harmed by their own families than by violence at schools, strangers, etc. Ok, I'll get down off of my soapbox now, sorry I hope I don't offend any HSers...

 

I worked with child welfare in my county for 7.5 years. I saw every case of abuse and neglect, read every file and knew the circumstances of each case. I realize that this is anecdotal, however, the overwhelming majority of these cases came to the attention of child welfare through reports of concerned neighbors and families. Now, yes, there were teacher reports as well in some cases, however, I don't recall a case where the ONLY report child welfare received from the school.

 

My point is that it is a mistake to discount the concern of immediate family and neighbors in favor of the school system.

[i.love.lucy]

:iagree:

 

I think it is dangerous to take some of the labels that could be applied to an abuser and tar others from those groups. There have been heart rending and sad abuse and murder stories that involve homeschoolers, public schoolers, teachers, soccer coaches, scout leaders, church leaders, relatives and neighbors.

 

That doesn't mean that schooling options, sports, churches, etc need to be outlawed to prevent abuse.

 

It does mean that when we as adults suspect that something isn't as it should be, that we should speak up, even at the risk of hurting a friendship or seeming overreactive.

Well said.

[In The Great White North]

This is simply not true. I NEVER had any training on how to spot child abuse while receiving my teaching degree. Teachers are not social workers.

 

Me either.

[MotherGoose]

Compile a list of all the children abused/killed by their parents over the past 20 years that were NOT homeschooled and see if it still seems as shocking as it is. Not that ANY abuse isn't shocking, but that abuse comes in all forms and all types of families (adoptive or not.)

:iagree:

In my years as a social worker, I never had any clients who homeschooled, but plenty who abused their kids. Thinking that the government needs to monitor my kids because I homeschool is like presuming that I will be abusive, and trying to catch me at it. If someone wants to abuse a child they will. I would question the wisdom of allowing families to adopt so many special-needs children who are at higher risk of being abused than children without special needs anyway.

[Farrar]

I just wanted to point out that abusers can use the homeschool label to hide when they're biological parents as well. That happened here and is how we ended up with the current version of our homeschool laws. This also makes me think of the case in the UK that led to some of the uproar over homeschooling there. Again, that was a biological parent. In both the case here and the one I'm remembering from the UK, when the children were in school, it did not lead to an end to the abuse either.

 

I do think, however, that there are some extremes within the Christian homeschooling community where certain individuals advocate for severe physical punishment. I've seen many people state that they were given the Pearls' book To Train Up a Child, as part of a "Welcome to Homeschooling" packet and I've seen it sold at homeschooling conferences. This is not to say that fundamentalist Christians are more likely to abuse their kids, biological or adopted, or that more government regulation is the answer or could put an end to it. I just want to point out that in some cases, there are communities or people within communities who encourage very severe beatings and deprivation of food which can lead to even worse abuse. I think it's up to people within the homeschooling community to speak out against this and to support parents who are overwhelmed by helping them find better disciplinary tools.

[Parrothead]

It's a long story about how this info. came to my attention, but I am profoundly grieved and shook up by these accounts. Children abused and held captive by their parents is the main concern my BIL has for homeschooling being legal or at the very least without strict governmental oversight. During that conversation was the first time and only time I have ever heard my BIL curse, and we've had some heated conversation over the past. I could find no evidence at this site of hostility toward homeschooling or even further comments on these accounts, but the argument must be out there, somewhere.

 

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/20821

 

How can this happen? Dear God, what can I do? How could the many recent accounts in the news of homeschooling parents murdering their adopted children effect homeschooling as we know it?

Children are abused. It is a sad fact. Homeschooling children, public

school children, private school children, children with private tutors all have been abuse, and sadly will be abuse again.

 

In the past public school children have disappeared to be held captive of their parents. What was the name of that young lady found last year, who was held captive in the family basement? Her father raped her and she had his children. All while the mother and (was it her?) sister were oblivious.

 

The website you linked is clearly anti-adoption. It is subtly anti- homeschooling and Christianity.

 

How can child abuse happen? There are some sick individuals out there. And despite popular modern thinking, evil does exist.

 

What can you do? Pray if you are so inclined. There are organizations that educate the public about the exploitation of children you might want to consider. Google it.

[Parrothead]

So what do you call these people? Is there a term? How can we better differentiate to those who are, ahem, confused? ;)

Liars.

 

Murders

 

Thieves of innocence

 

Pick one, but don't call them homeschoolers.