s/o Restaurant thread: The Death of Tipping

[Holly IN]

In our fave restaurant.....we had a poor waitress who ignore our table. My dh and I only got one drink out of the whole dinner. So we ate our dinner without anything to drink. :glare: We kept trying to signal her but she was too busy chatting with other waitresss on a very busy night. So we left a very very small tip. I didn't like leaving her a tip that small but she did ignore us the whole time we were there. :(

 

Holly

[angela in ohio]

About minimum wage and tipping...

 

I worked in two different restaurant chains: Ponderosa (the only sit down restaurant in our small town) and then Bob Evans (in my college city.) I made from $10-25/hr. Usually at Bob Evanse, I made $20/hr. This is much more than minimum wage. I was somewhat faster at service than other waitresses, and I picked up extra tables and carryout orders, but there wasn't anyone making less than $10-15/hr.

 

Making minimum wage isn't enough for a waitress. The job is hard, physically, mentally, and emotionally, if you do it well. For more than minimum wage, I could have been the hostess or worked a grocery store register, both of which would have been much easier jobs. In fact, when I left my full time job a few years out of college to stay home with my dc during the day, I went to work part time as a cashier for a family owned chain of stores in the area, and I made over $10/hr. The job was SO much easier than waitressing.

 

Anyway, if you don't leave a tip for a good waitress, and she ends up only making minimum wage, she won't stick around. She will find another job, and you will be stuck with the lousy waitress who is happy with minimum wage, because she is barely doing her job. Then you will be thirsty. ;)

[Murphy101]

He gets to keep his tips, but he gives 3% of the total of his sales (adding everyone's bill) back to the restaurant to give to those people who don't get tipped (the hostess, mainly).

 

Then he needs to quit and work at a place that does not force tip sharing. My mother always refused to work in such places. She said it was flat out wrong to steal from her hard earned backbreaking wages to pay the wages of the other employees. It is the owners job to pay the non-tipped employees an hourly wage.

 

I'm not even sure if it is legal for them to force him to put 3% of his tips in the jar. I think it might not be.....

 

Also, they should know the law when they are hired. This is yet another incentive to work hard for tips. Usually a waitress who doesn't make enough to bring herself up to minimum wage will be fired, because the owner is not going to want to pay the difference at the end of the year.

 

I mentioned this. However, it doesn't always happen in practice. Several former servers have confirmed that it doesn't always happen. Many servers are young and don't know labor laws.

 

Agreed. So they need to educate themselves, because that is part of growing up and getting a job. Though really it isn't going to matter for long. As I mentioned, from an owner perspective, any waiter who can't make the wages in tips will likely not be kept for long.

 

I tip strictly based upon service. If we have an excellent server we tip really well. On the other hand I have had servers make rude comments about how many kids I have ("You should get a tv.") And those people get nada from me.

 

Oh yeah. Like the gal who commented when I ordered a salad that I eat like a rabbit too. Yeahhhh. No tip for her!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

 

My sister and I both worked as waitstaff for many years. We tip well, but we also have high standards of what our dining experience will be. I am not afraid to tip poorly if the tip was not earned. For example, when we could see our food ready and getting cold while our hungry family sat waiting; the waitress did task after task for others because she did not understand that, "When the food is ready, you bring it out within 30 seconds!" I went to the kitchen window and served our family that night. :cursing: She also did not offer dessert (not that we would have chosen dessert, but it is part of good service). She was tipped, but not 15%.

 

 

I DO tip for this because I have worked in many restaurants that I have not been tipped for this service.

 

When one is in a restaurant, one is essentially "renting" the server. The restaurant provides the servers as a courtesy for your convenience. When you order food, you are paying a part of their wages.

 

Consider this:

When I take an order via phone, AND get your name and phone number, AND explain menu choices to you over the phone because you do not have a plastic menu in front of you, AND review your order before hanging up because you will not be accessible readily once I am done on the phone....I am ignoring my other tables.

 

When I take your order to the kitchen and explain the details of it to the kitchen staff and that it will be take-out.....I am ignoring my other tables.

 

When I get your food ready (in a styrofoam box and bag)....I am ignoring my other tables.

 

When I prepare the extras for your meal: dressing in a little disposable cup, drinks with lids, counting straws, extra ketchups....I am ignoring my other tables.

 

When you arrive, and I PROMPTLY (at your convenience, not after my other tables have been taken care of), arrange for your payment and bring your food out to you, confirming that your order is correct as you ordered it....I am ignoring my other tables. (The goal is to get you in and out with hot food...even if everyone sitting at a table has to wait for their hot food).

 

Whenever I ignore my other tables for YOUR sake, I am working my butt off, and putting my own income (tips from the other tables) in jeopardy. And now you are not willing to hand me a couple of bucks in thanks.

 

I agree that you should not need to tip 15+% for carryout, but if you can afford to eat out, you can afford to tip a few bucks. I don't mean to disparage or embarrass you, but I hope that those reading this who do NOT tip for takeout will consider what it is like for the server.

 

RANT OVER.

 

 

You didn't embarrass me and your rant won't change my actions. I don't call in orders. We order online. Someone in the kitchen sees the order and cooks it. Someone else puts it into a bag. Nope, that is not much in the way of service. I'm getting really tired of paying for the wages of restaurant staff. Restaurants should pay people a living wage. Tips should be over and above that. $2/hr is ridiculous!

[tajott]

I started working WAY part-time in a coffeeshop. Also I am almost 50... maybe that explains my aversion to tip jars .While I don't mind that someone drops some change into the tip jar for me ( I use it to bring my kids once in a while to the shop with me to do their schoolwork and I treat them to a hot chocolate), and I average about a dollar a day. I just refuse to pander to the customers. I never set the tip jar in a conspicuos place. The owner once wanted me to pass out coupons at an outdoor fiddle concert that my dd was in and "beg" people to come see me so that "I can afford more violin lessons". I was so insulted.

[jujsky]

I don't get why ppl are afraid to NOT tip if the service is lousy.

 

I'm not. If the service is horrible, I won't leave a tip or I'll leave a really horrible one. I remember receiving really bad service with my dad a few times (normally a very generous tipper) and he left a 2-cent tip just to let the waitstaff know how awful they were. He figured that was more insulting than leaving nothing.

[mommaduck]

I'm not. If the service is horrible, I won't leave a tip or I'll leave a really horrible one. I remember receiving really bad service with my dad a few times (normally a very generous tipper) and he left a 2-cent tip just to let the waitstaff know how awful they were. He figured that was more insulting than leaving nothing.

It is. Problem is that I've received a tip like that during a rush with minimal waitresses and I was busting my butt to do what I could for ALL tables.

[angela in ohio]

I'm getting really tired of paying for the wages of restaurant staff. Restaurants should pay people a living wage. Tips should be over and above that. $2/hr is ridiculous!

 

But that money has to come from somewhere. Restaurants have pretty low profit margins, and they won't be able to pay more without making it up somewhere else. It will be included in the price of the food. So you will still be paying the tip either way.

[QueenCat]

It is. Problem is that I've received a tip like that during a rush with minimal waitresses and I was busting my butt to do what I could for ALL tables.

 

As a former waitress, I can tell the difference between a waitress who is overloaded with too many tables or plain "it's busy", and a waitress who would rather not serve me. I would never short change your tip because it's busy, and things take longer....

[mommaduck]

As a former waitress, I can tell the difference between a waitress who is overloaded with too many tables or plain "it's busy", and a waitress who would rather not serve me. I would never short change your tip because it's busy, and things take longer....

Yes, but there are some smart aleck jerks out there that think they are cute or witty when they do this.

[Dawn in OH]

As a former waitress, I can tell the difference between a waitress who is overloaded with too many tables or plain "it's busy", and a waitress who would rather not serve me. I would never short change your tip because it's busy, and things take longer....

 

Same here. Once you've done the job, you can tell the difference between a good server that is really busy and someone that just doesn't give a hoot.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Dawn in OH

[Firestar Academy]

Reading this at the perfect time!

 

I volunteered 12 hours tues and wed so went out to lunch with my dad those two days.

First day - went to Friday's at 2pm. ordered soup/salad/breadsticks. soup was ice cold took 20 minutes to bring me another bowl. ordered the ceaser salad. was house salad with ceaser dressing...hmmm.. I am allergic totomatoes so I couldn't eat the salad. Never came back to refill our drinks. saw her sitting and talking at an empty table on the way out.

 

second day went to IHOP. dad got the senior frenchtoast special I got pot rost sand and bowl of soup. Waitress came over and FIRST THING asked about ANY allergies she should know about. Soup was coldish I said just throw it in micowave. Came back 3 minutes later PERFECT (I like my soup HOT HOT) best meal ever....Very friendly, but not too friendly.

 

barely tipped $1 first time, 2nd tipped 50%.

 

i have been a waitress.

 

Robin

[ondreeuh]

In Oregon, restaurant workers get at least minimum wage as their base wage and tips are on top of that. I do NOT feel obligated to tip generously - 15% is plenty if the server is just doing their job, but I sometimes tip higher if our tab is small or we've required a lot of time. I hate the tipping system - it should be the employer's responsibility to pay fairly and make sure the employees are providing good service, not mine.

[holdoll]

From Duckens:

 

"When one is in a restaurant, one is essentially "renting" the server. The restaurant provides the servers as a courtesy for your convenience. When you order food, you are paying a part of their wages."

 

If the restaurant wants to stay in business and make money, they will supply the servers. I am not "renting" a server. The server is the restaurant's employee no matter how much they do or don't pay the server. That is between the employer and the employee. It is not a courtesy to me for my convenience. It is a way of providing customer service to it's customers. Ergo, in the end it is the goal to achieve repeat business and word of mouth advertising by the restaurant's patrons to increase sales.

 

That being said I am a very generous tipper. If I am happy with the service, I generally give 25 - 30% or more for a tip. There were many nights I had warm foot baths waiting for my mom when she came home after my parents divorced and I understand how hard servers work. However, I have no problem leaving a small tip for inefficient service. 10% or less. I will never leave "no tip" though. I wouldn't want the server to think I had forgotten.

[gpsings]

I don't get why ppl are afraid to NOT tip if the service is lousy.

 

 

As a former server, I feel like I need to address this.

Servers are TAXED on 15% of their sales. Let's also remember, that in a lot of establishments, they have to 'tip out' to cooks and bus people, so they don't even get to keep all of what you give them.

I get that there are servers that aren't good at their jobs. I don't think you punish them by seeing to it that they aren't paid. Talk to the manager. Tell someone about your poor service. I remember one Halloween in particular where the managers had anticipated nobody would be in, so I was the only server working that night. Well, sure enough, we got slammed. People had to wait for things, and I had orders mixed up, etc. I was working the entire restaraunt by myself, and there were people waiting to be seated! I made 30.00 in tips that night. The next day, I quit.

I agree that tipping sucks and I wish shop owners wouldn't rely on it to pay people, but don't take it out on the employee. If you had a bad day, would you like to forfeit your pay?

[angela in ohio]

Servers are TAXED on 15% of their sales. Let's also remember, that in a lot of establishments, they have to 'tip out' to cooks and bus people, so they don't even get to keep all of what you give them.

 

I've seen this several times in the thread. It is not true. Employers are required to allocate tips if they aren't reported at 8% of total sales, but you can avoid this by keeping a true record of your tips. Some employer may make you claim 15% (though I've never worked anyplace that did,) but that is wrong. I would look elsewhere for work. The number 15% doesn't appear anywhere in the tax code, iirc.

 

When I worked, many waitresses would just claim 15% of their sales at the end of the week to avoid keeping track each day, and because it was a lot less than they made. I claimed every penny, because my mom is an Enrolled Agent with the IRS, and I knew I wouldn't get away with claiming I didn't know any better. :001_smile:

 

ETA: In case anyone is interested, here is the IRS Pub on reporting tip income: Publication 531.

Edited October 1, 2010 by angela in ohio

[gpsings]

I worked at Denny's when I was 18. We were trained to enter our tips at 15% of our sales. I was told this was by law. There are probably a lot of other servers who believe that is the law. I know for a fact I wasn't making that much, but what could you do?

It is really not a job you could support a home and family very well at, which is sad because so many people have no choice. :(

[Mrs Mungo]

It is really not a job you could support a home and family very well at, which is sad because so many people have no choice. :(

 

A huge percentage of the US work force is employed in service related jobs. It's a serious problem.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

But that money has to come from somewhere. Restaurants have pretty low profit margins, and they won't be able to pay more without making it up somewhere else. It will be included in the price of the food. So you will still be paying the tip either way.

 

 

But, seriously, when picking up TAKE-OUT?! There was no service. It was VERY similar to going to a store and buying something (anything, any object) and paying money for it. It's not like it was delivered to my home.

 

This is the frustration! That people are now expected to tip for service they never even received. Tipping when picking up take-out seems to be a new phenomenon in the past decade or so. We never tipped pizza employees in the 80's when picking up a pizza or at any other restaurant and suddenly people decided, "hey! We could put out a tip jar!" It boggles the mind!

[pqr]

If you had a bad day, would you like to forfeit your pay?

 

 

If you are in sales and paid by commission that is exactly what you do.

 

This is a simple concept, if a waitress does her job she will get paid (ie a tip), if she does not I will treat her as an adult who failed to perform a service and not pay her for such. Where is the issue?

Edited October 1, 2010 by pqr

[Murphy101]

If you are in sales and paid by commission that is exactly what you do.

 

This is a simple concept, if a waitress does her job she will get paid (ie a tip), if she does not I will treat her as an adult who failed to perform a service and not pay her for such. Where is the issue?

 

:iagree: It's called being professional. It's not your customers' problem that you are having a bad day. Heck, they might be trying to have a nice meal out because they had a bad day themselves!

 

I worked at Denny's when I was 18. We were trained to enter our tips at 15% of our sales. I was told this was by law. There are probably a lot of other servers who believe that is the law. I know for a fact I wasn't making that much, but what could you do?

It is really not a job you could support a home and family very well at, which is sad because so many people have no choice. :(

 

Being told that by the manager doesn't make it so, though I'm sure it benefits the manager.

 

I'll add that I really think the management basically garnishing your wages to pay other employees should be illegal if it isn't already. That sounds very wrong to me. My mother has been dead over a decade and worked higher end restaurants, but I remember her saying that she wouldn't work for places that did those things. She shared tips if she shared the table, such as banquets, but otherwise she refused.

[Murphy101]

But, seriously, when picking up TAKE-OUT?! There was no service. It was VERY similar to going to a store and buying something (anything, any object) and paying money for it. It's not like it was delivered to my home.

 

This is the frustration! That people are now expected to tip for service they never even received. Tipping when picking up take-out seems to be a new phenomenon in the past decade or so. We never tipped pizza employees in the 80's when picking up a pizza or at any other restaurant and suddenly people decided, "hey! We could put out a tip jar!" It boggles the mind!

 

:iagree: there's a tip jar outside a drive thru only coffee stand here.:001_huh: tip for what? Being kind enough to take my money for the coffee? For just being in business? What? I've never tipped there once in 6 years. And they know me by name, order, how many kids I have and their extracurricular activities... The lady who runs it gives the kids free cookies sometimes when i come round on a slow day. I'm paying $5 for a 16oz drink. If that isn't enough to keep them in business, then I'll just skip that biweekly treat and have my coffee at home.

 

There's also one at a book store near the cashier. Gee thanks for being so gracious as to be willing to perform a sales transaction with me?:001_huh:

[HRAAB]

:iagree: there's a tip jar outside a drive thru only coffee stand here.:001_huh: tip for what? Being kind enough to take my money for the coffee? For just being in business? What? I've never tipped there once in 6 years. And they know me by name, order, how many kids I have and their extracurricular activities... The lady who runs it gives the kids free cookies sometimes when i come round on a slow day. I'm paying $5 for a 16oz drink. If that isn't enough to keep them in business, then I'll just skip that biweekly treat and have my coffee at home.

 

There's also one at a book store near the cashier. Gee thanks for being so gracious as to be willing to perform a sales transaction with me?:001_huh:

 

My dd worked at a drive thru coffee stand while in college her first year. She made some fantastic tips! I noticed that were always usually from men! She is cute, sweet and smiles nicely. She always said she was glad her customers weren't like me!

 

I do not tip for take out or drive thrus. At sit down restaurants, we tip based on the service we receive. We don't eat out much, we have to save our money to do so, we include enough for a good tip, but if the service isn't up to par, the tip will reflect that. I guess I still expect people to earn their tips by providing quality service.

 

Normally, we're not disappointed.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

:iagree: there's a tip jar outside a drive thru only coffee stand here.:001_huh: tip for what? Being kind enough to take my money for the coffee? For just being in business? What? I've never tipped there once in 6 years. And they know me by name, order, how many kids I have and their extracurricular activities... The lady who runs it gives the kids free cookies sometimes when i come round on a slow day. I'm paying $5 for a 16oz drink. If that isn't enough to keep them in business, then I'll just skip that biweekly treat and have my coffee at home.

 

There's also one at a book store near the cashier. Gee thanks for being so gracious as to be willing to perform a sales transaction with me?:001_huh:

 

 

And THAT is what I'm talking about: having a hand sticking out waiting for a tip (and I believe trying to GUILT people into tippping) when service wasn't even rendered! The nerve of it is just appalling! :001_huh:

[angela in ohio]

Being told that by the manager doesn't make it so, though I'm sure it benefits the manager.

 

It doesn't benefit the manager, though. The management's only concern is that all of the waitstaff are collectively claiming at least 8% of the total sales in tips. I have no idea why a manager would tell a waitress this.

[Murphy101]

It doesn't benefit the manager, though. The management's only concern is that all of the waitstaff are collectively claiming at least 8% of the total sales in tips. I have no idea why a manager would tell a waitress this.

 

I don't know either. Maybe the 15% is closer to bringing them up to minimum wage?:confused:

 

Truth is as long as the waitress is making enough in tips to bring her up to minimum wage, the boss shouldn't care what she reports. It's only when she makes less that he has problem of making up the difference.

[mommaduck]

Springs, the difference being pointed out is that some places are paying their employees to do those things (fast food, pizza places, and regular stores); those employees make a solid wage. At a place such as the Olive Garden, it is a server/waitress that is putting your order together just as they do when servicing their tables. They don't make a solid wage, but rather rely on tips to pay for their services. You are saying that it's okay to take them from their tables to put together your order, but they don't deserve any compensation for doing that and it's okay for them to chance losing compensation at their other tables at the same time, because of your order. So YOU are saying that your order is more important than all the other customers that server has and you don't have to pay for her services. That is the difference. I sure hope that you tip for delivery by pizza drivers...they also do not receive a solid wage, they only get reimbursed a portion of gas, and pay for the upkeep of their own vehicles with no compensation; they expect to cover all that with the tips.

[Anne Rittenhouse]

We now live in a country where restaurant staff make a decent wage and there is no tipping. You can sit for a long as you like whether you've spent 20Euros or 200Euros and I can tell you.... the service is routinely lousy. From the humblest restaurants to the Michelen stars, rude, lazy, and inattentive waiters are the norm. I vote for tipping any day.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I'm sorry, but it's really not about the "wage that they make". If THAT were the case then each of us would need to pre-determine the wages of each employee at each restaurant we patronize. It is about the SERVICE WE RECEIVE!

 

Picking up a styrofoam container and putting it into a bag and handing it to me is just. not. service, even if people want to whine that it is. It isn't. I won't tip for it and no one can guilt me into it. It was not considered service ten and twenty years ago and it's not service now. I agree with Springs, if we aren't tipping JC Penney employees for doing the same thing then why at a restaurant? And don't give me the "they only make $2 an hour and we are taking them away from their tables". The two minutes it took to take the container from kitchen to the counter did not cause them to ignore tables and put their tips in jeapardy. :glare:

[Murphy101]

I'm sorry, but it's really not about the "wage that they make". If THAT were the case then each of us would need to pre-determine the wages of each employee at each restaurant we patronize. It is about the SERVICE WE RECEIVE!

 

Picking up a styrofoam container and putting it into a bag and handing it to me is just. not. service, even if people want to whine that it is. It isn't. I won't tip for it and no one can guilt me into it. It was not considered service ten and twenty years ago and it's not service now. I agree with Springs, if we aren't tipping JC Penney employees for doing the same thing then why at a restaurant? And don't give me the "they only make $2 an hour and we are taking them away from their tables". The two minutes it took to take the container from kitchen to the counter did not cause them to ignore tables and put their tips in jeapardy. :glare:

 

Even more relevant to the situation, as long as a boss can find someone who will work for $2 an hour and do work that is not part of their job (ei a waitress putting together take out orders, bussing table, closing up the restaurant) you can bet that is all the waitress will get bc there is no incentive for the boss to do otherwise.

 

The waitress should wait on her tables because that is her job and the source of her tips. If the boss wants her to do other jobs, he should pay her accordingly. I feel the same for bus boys and cooks. They should not get her tips, they should be paid a wage. It is not her job to take a cut of her pay to pay the other employees.

 

Until waitresses insist on these basic things, then frankly they shouldn't complain about a situation they won't change.

 

I feel this way about many jobs where employers push employees to do things outside their job description in the name of BS er team work. Cashiers being told they have to stock or mop floors. Waitresses bussing tables and cleaning toilets. Nope. If you want a janitor, hire one.

 

It's not about entitlement.

It's not about an unwillingness to do hard work.

 

It's about insisting on being paid for the work you do.

When you do work you were not hired to do - you are basically working for free.

Why would any boss pay for what they can get for free or cheap?

 

I get the pressure. This economy sucks and everyone is pretty much doing anything they can to keep any job, including doing the job of three people by themselves for less pay than they were getting on their own a year ago.

 

It still isn't right though and if a boss can get that bargain, then they have zero incentive to do otherwise.

[LizzyBee]

There is a huge misunderstanding among many Americans who think that servers receive wages much less than minimum wage.

 

If the tips are insufficient to reach the standard minimum wage, the company is legally required to make up the difference. So let's call the front end of a 'tip' what it is - a subsidy for the restaurant.

 

From http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

 

What is the minimum wage for workers who receive tips?

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage to covered, nonexempt employees. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

 

Some states have minimum wage laws specific to tipped employees. When an employee is subject to both the federal and state wage laws, the employee is entitled to the provisions which provides the greater benefits.

 

 

I agree that a tip should be a reward for extraordinary service.

 

Does anyone know whether small restaurants are still exempt from the minimum wage requirements? When I was a teen, I worked for $1.60/hr and rarely got a tip because we mainly had counter service rather than table service. There was a big poster from the DOL on the wall explaining that this was legal because of the exemption for small restaurants.

[Murphy101]

I can somewhat see tip sharing with the bus boys

 

Anyone else though, no way.

 

To me, paying out of my tips for serving a drink made by the bartender is no different than paying out of my tips because the cook cooked the food. Blarney. That's their job! It would rate right up there with tipping the boss because he brought in chairs. That's part of the job.

 

Springs is a bit abrasive, but her reasoning stands.

 

How much a person is tipped is not based on how much their boss is paying them. You have zero way of knowing how much their boss is or is not paying them or what all their boss is requiring of them for that wage. All you know is whether the service was rendered and properly done.

[mommaduck]

NM...apparently some people on here think they are above others and have never been subjected to working just "lowly" jobs.

 

Far as I'm concerned, I really hope that your to-go orders start getting ignored. If workers aren't getting paid to take care of you, then your order can sit and go cold.

Edited October 2, 2010 by mommaduck

[pqr]

NM...apparently some people on here think they are above others and have never been subjected to working just "lowly" jobs.

 

Far as I'm concerned, I really hope that your to-go orders start getting ignored. If workers aren't getting paid to take care of you, then your order can sit and go cold.

 

If a restaraunt ignores my to go order I will stop buying at that restaraunt and if enough customers do this then all the waiters will loose their jobs. Does not make much sense, especially from the business perspective.

 

As to being above others, you are way off base in that accusation, many who tip based on performance do so because they understand the value of work. A lazy, rude waitress gets nothing (she is not putting in effort and a tip should be commensurate) a hard working friendly one gets a good tip.

 

What is the issue? Why would I pay for poor service? If you demand a tip for a to go order I will go somewhere else and you will be without a job.

Edited October 2, 2010 by pqr

[Joanne]

The to-go order customer isn't lower than the customers that are dining inside that most likely will tip you.

 

You are not working your butt off more than a fast food cashier does, which doesn't get tipped, why should you? I am not saying it's not work, it is, I know, I have done to-go orders at a donut shop/diner as counter help years ago. Do you honestly think most people tipped? NO, even some came to pick up their order in drive-thru. Sure I hoped they would, who doesn't want more money, but did I DESERVE IT? NO WAY DID I DESERVE A TIP FOR FAST FOOD CASHIER WORK!! Who would turn down extra money though? Nobody would for the most part and you know it.

 

Because the current structure of wait staff in a sit down restaurant is they are being paid by the establishment $2.13 per hour (and that's only suggested, not mandatory) and the fast food worker gets paid at least minimum.

 

The way the US compensation structure has developed is such that wait staff in a sit down need tips to be paid a livable wage.

 

You are not comparing like situations.

[Mrs Mungo]

Because the current structure of wait staff in a sit down restaurant is they are being paid by the establishment $2.13 per hour (and that's only suggested, not mandatory) and the fast food worker gets paid at least minimum.

 

The way the US compensation structure has developed is such that wait staff in a sit down need tips to be paid a livable wage.

 

You are not comparing like situations.

 

I agree. Sit down restaurants are NOT the same as fast food restaurants. In a fast food restaurant the COOKS wrap up the food, the cashier just sticks it in a bag. With a sit-down restaurant the servers put those orders together.

 

People ultimately are going to do what they want.

 

*I* tip the server who puts together my to-go order from a sit-down restaurant. There are very few restaurants we get to-go from. They know me, they know I tip, I usually get the same server every time, he/she makes sure I get my guacamole, chips, bread, all of those extras and they double-check my order. I *never* have a problem. On the other hand, I have a friend who is always complaining about the to-go service from the same restaurant. She doesn't tip. If you don't want to tip, fine, but I don't think you should expect the same level of service. I don't tip 20% like I would if we were eating in, but I still tip.

 

And it's true that SOME restaurants have dedicated to-go people who get paid more than a waitress. It is, therefore, getting difficult for the public to guess how much they should be tipping. It would probably be a good idea to *somewhat* standardize it, but nobody ever likes those ideas.

 

LizzyBee, the link I gave (I forget if it was in this thread or the other one) that had the chart showed that small businesses *WERE* exempt from some this, they can pay less.

[Daisy]

I can't stand lousy tippers. My best friend is so cheap it drives me CRAZY.

 

My opinion is pay the tip.

 

If the service is TERRIBLE (and I mean flat out rude), speak to management right then and there and request another server. Why ruin your dinner? If the establishment consistently has poor service, then don't go there.

 

If the service isn't perfect then consider extending that person some grace. I like to assume the best about people.

 

IMO, not giving a tip is a reflection on your manners, not the server's.

 

And you know, I even like to leave a tip for the drive-in Starbuck's girl when she has had 20 cars in a line, people are ticked, she is frazzled, and she sees me pull up and says, "Good morning, Daphyne. I'm so sorry about this long wait." That is the moment to put in a dang tip, pay for the drink of the irritated person in the car behind you, put on a radiant smile, and hope you made a difference.

[Imprimis]

 

If the service isn't perfect then consider extending that person some grace. I like to assume the best about people.

 

IMO, not giving a tip is a reflection on your manners, not the server's.

 

And you know, I even like to leave a tip for the drive-in Starbuck's girl when she has had 20 cars in a line, people are ticked, she is frazzled, and she sees me pull up and says, "Good morning, Daphyne. I'm so sorry about this long wait." That is the moment to put in a dang tip, pay for the drink of the irritated person in the car behind you, put on a radiant smile, and hope you made a difference.

 

I love your way of looking at it, Daisy. Very gracious.

[Heatherwith4]

I can't stand lousy tippers. My best friend is so cheap it drives me CRAZY.

 

My opinion is pay the tip.

 

If the service is TERRIBLE (and I mean flat out rude), speak to management right then and there and request another server. Why ruin your dinner? If the establishment consistently has poor service, then don't go there.

 

If the service isn't perfect then consider extending that person some grace. I like to assume the best about people.

 

IMO, not giving a tip is a reflection on your manners, not the server's.

 

And you know, I even like to leave a tip for the drive-in Starbuck's girl when she has had 20 cars in a line, people are ticked, she is frazzled, and she sees me pull up and says, "Good morning, Daphyne. I'm so sorry about this long wait." That is the moment to put in a dang tip, pay for the drink of the irritated person in the car behind you, put on a radiant smile, and hope you made a difference.

Excellent post! I would rep you if I could! :)

[mommaduck]

If a restaraunt ignores my to go order I will stop buying at that restaraunt and if enough customers do this then all the waiters will loose their jobs. Does not make much sense, especially from the business perspective.

 

As to being above others, you are way off base in that accusation, many who tip based on performance do so because they understand the value of work. A lazy, rude waitress gets nothing (she is not putting in effort and a tip should be commensurate) a hard working friendly one gets a good tip.

 

What is the issue? Why would I pay for poor service? If you demand a tip for a to go order I will go somewhere else and you will be without a job.

I wasn't speaking about you or your comments and I definitely was not speaking as to they quality of service. :)

 

I was speaking to that specific person on here that has practically shouted in her posts how just how little she thinks of those that work as servers. She thinks all these people could just go out and have any job they want...in a country where the economy is in the tank, most people are desperate for whatever they can get, and the companies not only know it but take advantage of it. Not taking the job won't change the policies, it just won't put food on the table.

Edited October 3, 2010 by mommaduck

[mommaduck]

If you choose to say forever, that's your issue, not mine.

 

Continue to look for a better job on your days off going to interviews, for real.

 

As far as you saying this, well, maybe you should go back to school, because the people that are smart out there don't have as much problems finding work as people that aren't. Also, if you know someone that knows someone, I have even gotten a job through that method. Maybe try looking on the internet such as craigslists.

 

All I am saying is, you aren't caring about the customer's money, so why should we care about you? Think about others, then they will think about you. Right now, I am feeling, you are only concerned about YOU. That's part of your problem right there why you maybe aren't making as much money. You have to be considerate and nice to make more money. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar, for REAL!!!

 

Wow, you just assumed (falsely, I might add) a lot about me. You don't even know me, as is obvious by your post count. No, I'm concerned about those that are in that situation, not myself. You made some very arrogant comments as well about those that, again you make it obvious that you feel they are beneath you, are simply wrong. There are people with degrees that work these jobs as well. You don't know their circumstances, you don't know the areas they live in, and you don't know what the job market is like in each of their areas. They don't always have the option of moving, many are working more than one job just to keep their heads above water, and many are lucky that they got THAT job.

 

PS I was darn good at my job, WAY BACK WHEN I was a server...and my tips showed it.

Edited October 3, 2010 by mommaduck

[Murphy101]

I wasn't speaking about you or your comments and I definitely was not speaking as to they quality of service. I was speaking to that specific person on here that has practically shouted in her posts how just how little she thinks of those that work as servers. She thinks all these people could just go out and have any job they want...in a country where the economy is in the tank, most people are desperate for whatever they can get, and the companies not only know it but take advantage of it. Not taking the job won't change the policies, it just won't put food on the table.

 

:grouphug:

My dh has had a hard time too.

 

I get having to take whatever job you can get.

 

Many people with college degrees, many people who were at their previous job for a long time, many smart, responsible, hard working people are taking jobs way below the pay grade they used to have because that's the work they can get.

 

I wouldn't tell people not to work, but I would say that if your boss is stealing your pay to pay his other employees or making you do work outside of waitressing tables, then I'd move on ASAP and I absolutely think it should be illegal.

 

Don't get mad at customers, it will do no good.

 

Get mad at employers, because it won't be until they have to change that they will.

:grouphug:

[mommaduck]

:grouphug:

My dh has had a hard time too.

 

I get having to take whatever job you can get.

 

Many people with college degrees, many people who were at their previous job for a long time, many smart, responsible, hard working people are taking jobs way below the pay grade they used to have because that's the work they can get.

 

I wouldn't tell people not to work, but I would say that if your boss is stealing your pay to pay his other employees or making you do work outside of waitressing tables, then I'd move on ASAP and I absolutely think it should be illegal.

 

Don't get mad at customers, it will do no good.

 

Get mad at employers, because it won't be until they have to change that they will.

:grouphug:

I agree that things should probably change. But the reality is unfortunately the way it is. Lived most of my adult life in one area where we watched one company close after another. I know a lot of middle aged, intelligent adults do whatever they could. We were blessed with an opportunity to move to another area. In the past year we've seen companies here close and for every good job there can be hundreds to a thousand applicants...and MANY for the "menial" ones. I've seen older people turned down for menial jobs, because young adults are easier to manipulate. It's pretty rough out there right now. I just don't like seeing assumptions made about people that are busting their tails in such a situation and then also be treated as though they aren't worth anything by those they are serving. :) I'm really can see both sides within reason. But sometimes I like to try to consider how things are and try to bless someone that may need it. I've been in their shoes...I try to think of how I would have liked to be treated (and I always treated my customers just as well...not just for tips, but because that's just how I was as a server...a server CAN sometimes change a person's day ;) )

[Murphy101]

But sometimes I like to try to consider how things are and try to bless someone that may need it. I've been in their shoes...I try to think of how I would have liked to be treated

 

Of course I can understand that, but that really has nothing to do with tips.

 

Blessing someone in a charitable way out of kindness is NOT what a tip is. It is not about chairity or blessing.

 

Tips are also not about how the client is treating the waitress. I don't tip because I'm being nice or generous. I tip because their service warranted the tip. Likewise, if I don't tip or leave a poor tip, it is not because I'm a mean scrooge. It is likely because because there was little service offered or they flat out made me wish we'd stayed hime for dinner.

 

A tip is not a charitable donation.

A tip is not, necessarily, a statement of the customer's good will or lack thereof.

A tip is for services rendered and or rendering those services with extra quality of service.

[Mrs Mungo]

Springs, you are obviously WAY more emotionally invested in this discussion than I am. The fact that servers who USUALLY DO earn tips get paid less than minimum wage is a result of FEDERAL LAW. That law is based upon a social contract of paying tips. If you CHOOSE not to fulfill your part of that social contract, that is YOUR affair. Personally, I hope you stick to restaurants where it is not expected, YOU seem to be perfectly happy with that level of service.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I don't get why ppl are afraid to NOT tip if the service is lousy.

 

:iagree:I've done it. Very rarely, and it takes a lot for me to do it, but I have. In fact, the last time I did it, I wrote "Terrible Service!" on the tip line on my credit card slip (and boy howdy, was it terrible service). I've heard that sometimes managers will go through the bill and comp something so the server gets a tip when one is not given. I want to make it clear that I am *purposely* not leaving a tip.

 

Normally, I'm an excellent tipper. We have three small kids and usually leave a pretty good mess, have a lot of requests for extra silverware and napkins and drink refills, etc. But I've definitely encountered servers who looked at us, thought "young family, bad tippers!" and treated us accordingly. On the flip side, I've had servers who have gone WAY out of their way to make us comfortable. They've done little things like pile croutons on the salad because they overheard the kids say they like the croutons, didn't charge us for a 3rd kids drink when we only ordered 2 kids meals for 3 kids to share (the type where the drink is included in the price), brought crackers or bread to the table because we had a hungry, impatient toddler, etc. Those people get GOOD tips let me tell you.

 

When one is in a restaurant, one is essentially "renting" the server. The restaurant provides the servers as a courtesy for your convenience.

 

I disagree. It's not a courtesy if I can't opt out of it. I can't walk into the kitchen and give my order to the cook staff. I can't walk behind the counter and retrieve and deliver my own order, or refill my drink or grab silverware, napkins, take-home containers, etc. I tip for good service, period. I appreciate that often servers are making less than minimum wage, and I usually tip generously, but I expect a certain level of service for that tip. I don't expect to be hovered over, but I do expect you to keep an eye on our table. And if you're busy and running between tables, something as simple as, "Hey, sorry for the wait" goes a long way.

 

Like a few other posters have said, if I'm there for a longer-than-average time, I do tip more. But by the same token, don't deliver my plate AND my check at the same time, and don't show up 10 minutes after you've delivered my plate and ask if you can clear it or if I want a to go box.

 

But, now 90% of the places have websites with an easy "contact us" tab. Sometimes I don't get any response, and thus know that customer service is not a priority throughout that chain and shop accordingly....but most times I get at least an apology and quite often I get a coupon for a future visit....

 

:iagree: We had a rude waiter one night that perpetually ignored our family. He actually sat on an empty table in our section and chatted with another table of cute college girls while we looked on. By this point we'd been waiting longer than average for our order to arrive. He finally got up, wandered around to our table and said, "I don't know why your order isn't ready yet." He meandered off to check, and when the food arrived, it was clear it had been sitting in the warmer for quite a while. We went to the website (it's a nation-wide chain in the US) and complained. I got a phone call with an apology from the restaurant manager, plus she said she would address it with the server and she mailed us a gift card. We also got a second gift card with an apology from the corporate headquarters.

Edited October 3, 2010 by LemonPie

[angela in ohio]

I wouldn't tell people not to work, but I would say that if your boss is stealing your pay to pay his other employees or making you do work outside of waitressing tables, then I'd move on ASAP and I absolutely think it should be illegal.

 

This is a part of the job. Many (most?) restaurants use tip sharing, and I have never waitressed anywhere where we weren't expected to do other jobs, whether it was filling ketchup bottles at the end of the night or filling in to seat people when the hostess was overwhelmed or answering the phone. You don't spend every second at the tables; there are down times. Trust me, it is better to have something meaningful to do in those down times, as it makes the night go faster. :001_smile:

 

Of course, I've never had any job where at times you weren't asked to do something that you could have technically claimed was outside of your job responsibilities. If you care about the success of the organization as a whole (and your job in the long run) you help out (and you move up the ladder in many cases.)

[Margaret in GA]

I never leave much in the tip jar at our local sandwich shop. It's the kind of place where you order your food at the counter and they bring it to you. Or you can order ice cream and they scoop it for you. I usually leave a dollar or two. Well.... I just found out the owners don't pay the people waiting on you (also the people preparing the food) minimum wage. That's right, they get paid a server's wage and are expected to make up the difference in tips. What the??? First, I had no idea. Second, how can this be fair or right? The server is the cook is the money handler. And they all get paid less than minimum wage? I totally agree we need to do away with tipping. It's too confusing to otherwise intelligent and generous people like me.:001_huh:

[Murphy101]

I never leave much in the tip jar at our local sandwich shop. It's the kind of place where you order your food at the counter and they bring it to you. Or you can order ice cream and they scoop it for you. I usually leave a dollar or two. Well.... I just found out the owners don't pay the people waiting on you (also the people preparing the food) minimum wage. That's right, they get paid a server's wage and are expected to make up the difference in tips. What the??? First, I had no idea. Second, how can this be fair or right? The server is the cook is the money handler. And they all get paid less than minimum wage? I totally agree we need to do away with tipping. It's too confusing to otherwise intelligent and generous people like me.:001_huh:

 

Not to mention I would not do business with them knowing they don't pay a minimum wage to those who are not servers. I'd says so too.

[ZeldaRules]

I haven't read all the replies...I have read the first few pages...on that note,

 

an upside down penny is worse than leaving no tip. If you leave no tip, the server may just think you forgot or didn't know better. When you leave an upside down penny, it tells the server they really sucked.

 

I have left an upside down penny a few times when needed, and I was a server for a few years.