Another study that says vaccines do NOT cause autism...

[angela in ohio]

I have never heard or seen that autism is a product of neglectful parenting or cold mothers. I find that to be the oddest statement said in all my years of being mom to an autistic child.

 

It's the old Refrigerator Mother theory.

[ma23peas]

I'm inclined wholly to support environmental causes...genetics may have a tiny role..but we're doing this to our children...whether we like it or not...

 

"Autism is a catastrophic epidemic with an increase of 1,500% in the UK in the last decade. In California one in 150 children is autistic - a 54% increase in just 2001/2! The primary causes of autism known to come from vaccines, maternal overexposure to heavy metals and antibiotics, heavy metals from industry pollution of the air and water, and the chemicals used in the electronics industry. Significantly, the first cases of autism were described in the US shortly after the vaccines for whooping cough were introduced in the 1940s"

 

You can check your state's trends...I found the trends alarming and shocking for our state...up 947% in 5 year span...Huntsville has Redstone Arsenal...no telling what all is going into the department of defense projects that are top secret and most work on here....

 

http://www.thoughtfulhouse.org/tech-labs/disabilities/autism-prevalence-report.php

 

 

I just see no evidence to genetics...all evidence points to environment..:(

[asta]

I haven't read the entire thread but I have a few issues, and a big one on this point. I have never heard or seen that autism is a product of neglectful parenting or cold mothers. I find that to be the oddest statement said in all my years of being mom to an autistic child. In fact, I've found that most mother's of autistic children are very involved and fighting for their children. Some just aren't as educated as they should be on what helps.

 

 

Refrigerator mothering was the standard excuse doctors gave clear through the 1970s.

 

 

a

[TravelingChris]

One reason that points highly to genetics is that many families have more than one person who has this or what are sometimes called related conditions.

 

Here is a link to why the study was retracted. Actually, I am amazed that it was ever published in the first place _ only 12 children in the study??? Now I can understand having a study of 12 kids if it is a disease where only 100 people have ever had the disease or even 196 like my dd's condition but autism?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/research/03lancet.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=autism&st=cse

[Onceuponatime]

2 of the boys that I mentioned are socially detached. They will not look anyone in the eyes and their verbal skills are many years behind their peers. These are symptoms similar to what Matthew Laborteaux had.

 

Now, I'm definitely not saying that this is a common thing and I know that thousands of nurturing people have autistic children. I'm just saying that I don't think it can be totally discounted.

[angela in ohio]

One reason that points highly to genetics is that many families have more than one person who has this or what are sometimes called related conditions.

 

In dh's school, there are several families who stopped vaccinating after the first child was diagnosed, but then had future children with ASD. I feel bad for them, as they felt sure of not having another child diagnosed.

[pdalley]

I'm inclined wholly to support environmental causes...genetics may have a tiny role..but we're doing this to our children...whether we like it or not...

 

I just see no evidence to genetics...all evidence points to environment..:(

 

There is plenty of genetic evidence in my family. Pre Civil War era. Way before pollution and vaccines. (I am very lucky that my maternal line was heavily traced and documented.)

 

I am not saying there are not other cause in other families but my boys - my brother - myself? In our family it's genetic. Period.

 

UNC Chapel Hill is doing a lot of research into the genetic component. It bears out.

[bbrandonsmom]

carolinagirl-you sound like you did a great job :) I wouldn't say neglect can cause Autism, but it can cause a spectrum or something similar. I've read about cases, where child protective services have removed toddlers from homes (you can imagine the home), and the children were all on the spectrum or diagnosed as Autistic. And the parents didn't think there was anything wrong. I can prob find the news articles and pm them to you. They are heartbreaking though.

 

On that note-genetics would play a part in Autism. I know families who did not vaccinate and the kids are Autistic or on the spectrum. So we have genetics and then we have triggers. Or both combined. If you want to say genetic and it's in our family, we have to look and see what could be possible triggers? Was it a vaccine from 2 generations ago, that was chalked full of Mercury? Was it the DEET that was sprayed everywhere for bug control? Was it the drugs used in childbirth, or the processed foods we eat?

 

We know there are people who are given a vaccine, and because of Genetics, are predisposed to have a reaction-what ever it might be. If some one can genetically have an allergy to nuts, why can't a person have a problem with something in a vaccine? Is it that hard to comprehend?

 

What we don't have are the funds to test every single newborn ( but we can do a pku test), and the parents to find out what that might be, which a vaccine may trigger. Of course the FDA would have to openly admit that people can be genetically predisposed to a vaccine trigger, which would set off mass crazy, and completely undermine the vaccine system. But remember-the US has already paid out money to vaccine damaged families, so in a way, has already said there is a problem, or they wouldn't pay out.

 

Also, the fact is, the number of autistic children is rising so quickly, it should be an epidemic. Yet you see hardly anything being done about regulating the safety of our food, the safety and efficiency of vaccines, safety of products we use etc.

 

I'm frankly very tired of the Autism + Vaccine connection. It's not about just Autism. Any parent who is or has a child effected by vaccines and has done the research should be able to say that. There are many families who are effected by vaccines and it has nothing to do with Autism at all. I know many people who have chosen not to vaccinate, and it has nothing to do with Autism. I know many who start the research because it may have started w/ Autism.

 

I have a wonderful list of questions to ask yourself if you are researching vaccines and would be happy to pm them to anyone.

[cjbeach]

I'm inclined wholly to support environmental causes...genetics may have a tiny role..but we're doing this to our children...whether we like it or not...

 

"Autism is a catastrophic epidemic with an increase of 1,500% in the UK in the last decade. In California one in 150 children is autistic - a 54% increase in just 2001/2! The primary causes of autism known to come from vaccines, maternal overexposure to heavy metals and antibiotics, heavy metals from industry pollution of the air and water, and the chemicals used in the electronics industry. Significantly, the first cases of autism were described in the US shortly after the vaccines for whooping cough were introduced in the 1940s"

 

You can check your state's trends...I found the trends alarming and shocking for our state...up 947% in 5 year span...Huntsville has Redstone Arsenal...no telling what all is going into the department of defense projects that are top secret and most work on here....

 

http://www.thoughtfulhouse.org/tech-labs/disabilities/autism-prevalence-report.php

 

 

I just see no evidence to genetics...all evidence points to environment..:(

 

Actually the Genomics unit at CHOP (gets kinda muddled because of Paul Offit and his link to CHOP so take from it what you will) has been working on this recently. Given our history (mentioned a page or 2 back in this thread) there's some irony because a very close family member works for Dr. Hakonarson (head of Genomics Unit at CHOP):001_huh:. She sent me

last month. However from what I have read, his work just duplicates earlier work. But he's the boss off someone I love dearly, so we appreciate all he does. :)

[*~Tina~*]

how do you know what to believe any more? All my kids are vaxed and no problems but my BFF will go to her grave swearing it caused the autism in her ds. I don't think I trust the media one way or the other...

 

I think there is SO much to ASD... so much more. I love what some from here said "if you know one child with Autism, you know ONE child with Autism." Of all the ASD kids we know, they're all similar in some ways but so different in others. And the spectrum is WIDE (way too wide IMO).

 

In all that's been voiced - some gracious and thoughtful, some not so much :confused: - I wonder how many of those sharing opinions actually have a child on the autism spectrum? Having a bit of media fed or second hand knowledge of ASD and liviing the daily grind raising a child with ASD are two very different things.

 

Best I can tell. . .there has been no clear answer to Heather's original question that began this thread "how do you know what to believe any more?" The reality is that you don't! You can choose to believe A, you can choose to believe B, you can choose to believe C - but in the end, our choices and opinions are subjective because our own experiences and current views of the variables and the many unknowns on the issue.

 

I think "cjbeach" summed it up well.

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

[bbrandonsmom]

One reason that points highly to genetics is that many families have more than one person who has this or what are sometimes called related conditions.

 

Here is a link to why the study was retracted. Actually, I am amazed that it was ever published in the first place _ only 12 children in the study??? Now I can understand having a study of 12 kids if it is a disease where only 100 people have ever had the disease or even 196 like my dd's condition but autism?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/research/03lancet.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=autism&st=cse

 

The same study has been done prior to Wakefield and NOT retracted (in fact there was more than 1 done). Why was the Wakefield study retracted and not the others that state the same information? There is an investigation on the so called professor who was trying to disprove Wakefield as well.

One can not just believe what the newspaper puts out. Not all the facts are printed. A person needs to look behind the article and find the actual facts. Just look at the many families who were not allowed to speak during the Omnibus trial. They have plenty to say.

[angela in ohio]

In all that's been voiced - some gracious and thoughtful, some not so much :confused: - I wonder how many of those sharing opinions actually have a child on the autism spectrum? Having a bit of media fed or second hand knowledge of ASD and liviing the daily grind raising a child with ASD are two very different things.

 

If the question is only open to those with children with ASD, perhaps it should be asked on the Special Needs board. I didn't see the OP limit the conversation to those with children with ASD. :confused:

Edited September 14, 2010 by angela in ohio

[*~Tina~*]

If the question is only open to those with children with ASD, perhaps it should be asked on the Special Needs board. I didn't see the OP limit the conversation to those with children with ASD. :confused:

 

I assume this is sarcasm of sorts :confused:

 

It was simply a matter of *I* wonder. I personally think it makes a measurable difference in one's level of understanding, compassion, and commitment to learning and keeping up with the issues relevant to ASD.

 

I don't understand why some of you come across so touchy and defensive. IMHO, it doesn't make for good conversation or debate, and such skirmishes are hardly worth the time so I'll sign off this thread here. . .

 

Back to my "special needs" corner of the world :001_huh:

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

[WishboneDawn]

Look for any safety study done on the vaccines and look to see if there is an opposite study. There are boundless studies on the harmful effects of what is in a vaccine.

 

This is a perfect example of a claim that needs to be substantiated. If you have links to such studies, please supply them.

[angela in ohio]

I assume this is sarcasm of sorts :confused:

 

It was simply a matter of *I* wonder. I personally think it makes a measurable difference in one's level of understanding, compassion, and commitment to learning and keeping up with the issues relevant to ASD.

 

I don't understand why some of you come across so touchy and defensive. IMHO, it doesn't make for good conversation or debate, and such skirmishes are hardly worth the time so I'll sign off this thread here. . .

 

Back to my "special needs" corner of the world :001_huh:

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

 

No, I was genuinely confused about why you thought those without dc with ASD's thoughts didn't count. If I was being sarcastic I would have posted this: :001_huh: or :glare:. :001_smile:

 

This thread isn't about whether it's hard to raise a dc with ASD or not. It's about research and the media. You don't have to live with a child with ASD to want to read about it and understand it. I actually think wanting to read about it and discuss it is the very opposite of what you are implying (that those with dc with special needs need to go to their own little corner.)

 

I'm just saying that if you want to talk to only those with children with ASD, posting on this board won't get you that; everyone gets to join discussions here.

 

My dh lives and breathes ASD. He just spent a week on the East coast at the most intensive treatment facility available being trained in new therapies for those with ASD. He spends long hours with families with children with ASD, helping them balance the dc's needs with family life, figuring out how to educate them in a safe environment, helping plan their futures. We spend countless hours with dc with ASD. Nope, we don't have one. But that doesn't mean we don't care or get it. We don't get it in the same way, but we can still join the conversation.

[nmoira]

The same study has been done prior to Wakefield and NOT retracted (in fact there was more than 1 done).

Citations please.

 

Why was the Wakefield study retracted and not the others that state the same information?

Because the Wakefield study was poorly (probably fraudulently) conceived and of no scientific merit. Wakefield had undisclosed conflicts of interest, he lied to his ethics board, and performed unnecessary interventions on his patients.

 

There is an investigation on the so called professor who was trying to disprove Wakefield as well.

Who is this?

 

One can not just believe what the newspaper puts out. Not all the facts are printed. A person needs to look behind the article and find the actual facts.

I absolutely agree. If this were the case perhaps we wouldn't have seen such fear mongering over a single, small, poorly constructed study about the dangers of the MMR. The media were all over this for years.

[cjbeach]

My husband once had a very heated email "discussion" with a Harvard professor who wrote a blasting article that basically said that Autism is the "junk" byproduct of years of immunological and enviornmental damages. The way he worded was pretty extreme, it just infuriated my husband, but I don't necessarily disagree with him.

 

We feel that the vax may have ultimately been what "flipped the switch" in my ds. But we truly believe he came preloaded. Maybe some children just don't need that flip switched? Maybe their "load" was that intense via genetic compromise?

 

I do strongly feel that we're vaxing with too much, too soon. My son was vax'd with Hep B at birth with Hep B negative parents. I think back on MY consent and cringe. He was less than an hour old when he was vaccinated for Hep B in 2001. I cringe to think what that could have done to an immature/one-hour old immune system.

 

It's all so frustrating and confusing.

[Sun]

My theory...completely at a pre-theory level and probably impossible to prove...but three of the highest levels of autism occur in LA/Seattle/and believe it or not Huntsville, AL...what could contribute to these areas having high amounts?

 

My idea is drugs....prescription drugs...the amount of rx drugs has risen exponentially in the past 40 years....by products of these get 'wasted' into our water treatment systems..which I believe are not able to filter them out...they get sent out into our irrigation systems....those three areas probably have some of the higher concentrations of prescription users...LA...well, really no need to explain further, Seattle...one of the highest depression areas in the country and Huntsville with one of the highest retirement communities but also mixed with a lot of young families....you don't see it in areas with higher concentrations of retirement families because generally there are not as many young families in those areas...but my guess is that if you looked at the top 10 areas for autism you'll find similar connections...

 

 

 

But Seattle's drinking water comes from mountain reservoirs primarily from snow melt off, not treated sewage water. For the drugs to be in the drinking water, they'd have to evaporate and then fall again as precipitation. In Los Angeles, their water largely comes from water sources that originate far away - like the Colorado River.

 

One theory on Seattle and some other places having a high rate is partially genetics - there's a high percentage of tech workers in the Seattle area because of Microsoft and other tech companies. I've often heard that software coders and other techies have higher rates of Asperger's or more people who are a little more toward the Asperger's side of the spectrum. The theory is that if two people who are a little further toward the Asp. side of the spectrum have kids, then their kids are more likely to have Asp. traits - just like two brown-eyed people are more likely to have brown-eyed kids. By the way, this doesn't rule out a significant environmental component - just says that genetics can also play a role, which may account for some of the "clusters."

 

I do find it interesting that no matter how many studies refute a link between vaccines and autism, and no matter how carefully controlled and well designed those studies are, many people will continue to believe there is a link based on anecdotal evidence. (This is not directed at anyone in particular and certainly no one here at WTM - I haven't yet read past the post to which I was responding above.)

Edited September 14, 2010 by Sun
edited to clarify

[bbrandonsmom]

This is a perfect example of a claim that needs to be substantiated. If you have links to such studies, please supply them.

 

What ingredient would you like info on specifically? You can search pubmed on each ingredient. You can search NVIC on the ingredients as well. They also have a calculator to see exactly how much of each one, and from there you can research the dangers of such quantity.

[nmoira]

What ingredient would you like info on specifically? You can search pubmed on each ingredient. You can search NVIC on the ingredients as well. They also have a calculator to see exactly how much of each one, and from there you can research the dangers of such quantity.

 

And then read this to see why the NVIC numbers are something less than reliable:

 

The NVIC Vaccine Ingredient Calculator: A disingenuous deceptive instrument of vaccine fear mongering

[bbrandonsmom]

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/fombonne-lord-leventhal-vs-children-with-autism.html

Fombonne-and his studies have been picked apart to pieces. You can check Safe Minds for more info. The charges against him for the Wakefield trail are a mess and hard to find info on.

 

Age of Autism has a ton of info on the Wakefield trial and what went wrong, and why he was discredited. I need to dig my links on the other studies. The info might be on Safe Minds, I'm not positive.

 

Regarding reading the news-people will chose to believe what they want, no one can change that. If you are reading a news story, you ask yourself if it sounds true I guess. If you're like me, you pick it apart and look for the truth. That might entail days of contacting the library of congress for court reports on trials, rechecking fact on fact, comparing what the cdc tells us vs what other info found, looking into a study to see what was fact/not fact etc. It can take months, years etc. If a person reads a news story and doesn't want to do that, then that's a choice by that person. Fact for one person may be entirely different than fact for another. Especially if it's something about vaccines. I've been researching vaccines for years now. It raises my bp and stresses me out, when it starts to get to me.

 

I agree that having a child or having an Autism spectrum or vaccine effected child can make a difference in how you view vaccines. When you are faced w/ it daily, and if it happened after a vaccine, or due to family history, that person looks for a reason why. Those who are not directly effected, may not look too much into it.

 

I can see both sides quite clearly, but it's how I think. I hope I have not offended anyone here. My heart is with every single family struggling for answers about Autism and anything related to it. My heart breaks, and I send you my quiet strength, and to let you know you are not alone. So many people are out there looking for the same answers and live with the same/similar struggles.

[bbrandonsmom]

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/wakefieldreplicated/

 

Some of the prior studies are listed here. I have more written down some place. I thought they were w/ my ingredient list, but they are not. Either way, if a person wants answers, you have to dig, dig and dig some more. The answers we seek are not always easy to find, nor what we hope to find.

[carolinagirl]

Not to dredge up the post back to page one, but I was gone all day (co-op + music means all day in town LOL). Just wanted to thank those who pointed me to the wikki info and explained the reasoning behind the cold mothers = autism. I had never heard of that before. Awful!

 

I know there are cold mothers out there and it makes my heart ache for the kids in that position. I have heard about attachment disorders but that was always in regards to children growing up in really terrible orphanages. The babies are left in cribs all day etc and then they get adopted out, lots of disasters down the road for the families. I actually knew one family that had an adopted child with a mild form of the disorder but I didn't know that was on the spectrum.

 

Either way, I am in the camp that autism disorders and having a predisposition towards it are probably affected by multiple factors. I don't think for one moment it caused my son's but some stories from other mother's are so compelling, I can't completely discount that there isn't a link for *some* children.

[Mergath]

I don't have a child with autism- though my dd does have a genetic disorder that causes autism in 1 out of 3 of the children that have it- but I have worked with people with autism since 2004. And I think it's pretty clear that autism is genetic.

 

When you look at the information that's out there, at how many families have a history of autism whether vaccinated or not, at all the studies that show no connection between autism and vaccines, I don't understand how anyone can still think there's a connection. Even if it's a predisposition that is triggered by vaccines, you'd still see higher rates of autism among vaccinated children in the studies, but all the (reputable) studies have shown no connection whatsoever.

 

There is also more information coming out about specific genetic disorders that cause autism. My dd has 16p11.2 deletion syndrome, and as I mentioned, 1 out of 3 kids with this will have autism. This deletion, which causes problems with brain development, was only discovered a few years ago, so I think it's very likely that there are other genetic disorders causing the range of what we see on the spectrum.

 

Thankfully, my dd is almost two and a half and shows no signs of having autism, though she does have other delays.

[QueenCat]

Since mercury has been banned from the childhood vaccines for quite some time, yet the autism rates continue to rise, clearly the mercury in the vaccine can not be the major factor.

 

:iagree: My oldest had mercury in some of his vacs and he DOES NOT have autism. My youngest had NO mercury or thimersol, and he HAS autism.

[asta]

The very first vaccine, which was for polio, was developed by Jonas Salk, and began clinical trials in the United States in 1954. It was released to the public in 1955 and promptly killed 10 people and gave polio to another 260.

 

The vaccine was revamped from 1957-1963 to the ones we know today as the Salk and Sabin vaccines, which are made from inactive rather than active polio virus particles.

 

So let's think about this.

 

Born in Vienna, Hans Asperger published the first definition of Asperger's Syndrome in 1944. In four boys, he identified a pattern of behavior and abilities that he called "autistic psychopathy," meaning autism (self) and psychopathy (personality disease). The pattern included "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements." Asperger called children with AS "little professors" because of their ability to talk about their favourite subject in great detail.

 

[...]

 

Hans Asperger’s positive outlook contrasts strikingly with Leo Kanner's description of autism. Both men essentially described the same condition. It may be that Hans Asperger expressed positive views on Asperger Syndrome due to the political climate of the time, in particular the Nazis' intolerance for disabilities.

 

[...]

 

Ironically, as a child Hans Asperger appears to have exhibited features of the very condition named after him. He was described as a remote and lonely child, who had difficulty making friends. He was talented in language, in particular he was interested in the German poet Franz Grillparzer whose poetry he would frequently quote to his uninterested classmates.

 

1944. (published, not just "discovered" or "existed") 1955. (widespread distribution)

 

That is an eleven year delta that doesn't add up no matter HOW anyone wants to spin it.

 

And that doesn't even factor in pdalley's genealogical goldmine.

 

The vaccine argument is simply humans refusing to acknowledge that they could possibly have scored less than "perfect" on the Darwin test.

 

How's that for snarky? ;)

 

 

a

Edited September 15, 2010 by asta

[Carrie12345]

 

1944. (published, not just "discovered" or "existed") 1955. (widespread distribution)

 

That is an eleven year delta that doesn't add up no matter HOW anyone wants to spin it.

 

And that doesn't even factor in pdalley's genealogical goldmine.

 

The vaccine argument is simply humans refusing to acknowledge that they could possibly have scored less than "perfect" on the Darwin test.

 

How's that for snarky? ;)

 

 

a

 

Meh. Cancer's been around for centuries, well before Marlboros and pesticides. We know about some genetic links now, and we know about some environmental factors now. And we know it appears to come out of nowhere in some cases.

 

I delayed many vaccines with ds until he was over 2, when he started showing some signs of Asperger's. Then again, there are traits on both sides of his family- extended and immediate. Or maybe it just came out of nowhere.

 

Personally, I wish more of this "autism spectrum research" money would go into education, parenting, and therapy research than chasing dead ends. I have no desire to change or <gulp> "cure" my kid, but I'm working REAL hard to give him the tools to become independent and hopefully offend as few people as possible when trying to carve out a life for himself.

 

The whole issue of taking AS off of the "official" spectrum is a whole other issue, imo. To me, that's like taking Mild Mental Retardation off of the Mental Retardation scale.

[angela in ohio]

a

 

There you go again, throwing facts around. You're no fun! ;) :D

[angela in ohio]

I have no desire to change or <gulp> "cure" my kid, but I'm working REAL hard to give him the tools to become independent and hopefully offend as few people as possible when trying to carve out a life for himself.

 

:001_smile:

[asta]

And speaking of Darwin and mothers (though not refrigerator mothers)...

 

Link to autism in boys found in missing DNA

 

The scientists discovered that males who carry specific alterations of DNA on the sole X-chromosome they carry are at high risk of developing ASD.

 

[...]

 

Though all of the causes of ASD are not yet known, research has increasingly pointed towards genetic factors,. In recent years, several genes involved in ASD have successfully been identified.

 

[...]

 

The scientists analyzed the gene sequences of 2,000 individuals with ASD, along with others with an intellectual disability, and compared the results to thousands of population controls. They found that about one per cent of boys with ASD had mutations in the PTCHD1 gene on the X-chromosome. Similar mutations were not found in thousands of male controls. Also, sisters carrying the same mutation are seemingly unaffected.

 

[...]

 

The male gender bias in autism has intrigued us for years and now we have an indicator that starts to explain why this may be," says Dr. Scherer. "Boys are boys because they inherit one X-chromosome from their mother and one Y-chromosome from their father. If a boy's X-chromosome is missing the PTCHD1 gene or other nearby DNA sequences, they will be at high risk of developing ASD or intellectual disability. Girls are different in that, even if they are missing one PTCHD1 gene, by nature they always carry a second X-chromosome, shielding them from ASD." Scherer adds, "While these women are protected, autism could appear in future generations of boys in their families."

 

a

[Melinda in VT]

Personally, I wish more of this "autism spectrum research" money would go into education, parenting, and therapy research than chasing dead ends. I have no desire to change or <gulp> "cure" my kid, but I'm working REAL hard to give him the tools to become independent and hopefully offend as few people as possible when trying to carve out a life for himself.

 

I read somewhere (unfortunately I don't remember where, so without a link to go see for yourself, take this with a grain or twelve of salt) that researchers expect to find multiple genetic causes of or contributors to autism, and that they hope to be able to use that information to understand why certain therapies work for some kids and not others.

 

Ideally, if you knew your child's specific genetic contributions, you could seek out the therapies that were most effective for kids with that "type" of autism and spend less time in therapies that wouldn't work.

[pdalley]

And speaking of Darwin and mothers (though not refrigerator mothers)...

 

Link to autism in boys found in missing DNA

 

 

 

a

 

 

Ok I'm reading this way early and with no coffee yet but am I correct in thinking that this bears our the history in my maternal line? (as much as it can without us and my ancestors having DNA testing) Both males and females have the traits but it is more pronounced in males.

[bbrandonsmom]

The very first vaccine, which was for polio, was developed by Jonas Salk, and began clinical trials in the United States in 1954. It was released to the public in 1955 and promptly killed 10 people and gave polio to another 260.

 

The vaccine was revamped from 1957-1963 to the ones we know today as the Salk and Sabin vaccines, which are made from inactive rather than active polio virus particles.

 

So let's think about this.

 

 

 

1944. (published, not just "discovered" or "existed") 1955. (widespread distribution)

 

That is an eleven year delta that doesn't add up no matter HOW anyone wants to spin it.

 

And that doesn't even factor in pdalley's genealogical goldmine.

 

The vaccine argument is simply humans refusing to acknowledge that they could possibly have scored less than "perfect" on the Darwin test.

 

How's that for snarky? ;)

 

 

a

 

How about that Mercury has been in vaccines since 1930's, so before 1944. Anyone can look at the vaccine timeline, see exactly what vaccines were used in the US first-not Polio- and see what ingredients were in them. Once again it comes down to facts.

[cathmom]

My dh and I were talking about what dysgraphia is. He knew it could cause poor spelling. He has ALWAYS been a poor speller and his handwriting is horrible. He would probably be diagnosed with it. What benefit would come from him being diagnosed, though?

 

 

 

Dysgraphia is more than bad spelling and sloppy handwriting. My dd was diagnosed with it when she was 12 (along with dyslexia). She had virtually no writing ability whatsoever, and she had gotten to the point where she refused to try anymore. With her diagnosis, she was able to get appropriate tutoring, and now two years later she writes in beautiful cursive, but she still has to ask how to spell many common words. If she were in school, she would receive accomodations. Think about how many times students are expected to copy off the board. One of her subtests required her to copy a simple paragraph that was on the board. She had 10 minutes to do so and she could not complete it. Her version was riddled with mistakes. In a class situation, she wouldn't be able to copy the board before the teacher erased it to write something else!

[asta]

How about that Mercury has been in vaccines since 1930's, so before 1944. Anyone can look at the vaccine timeline, see exactly what vaccines were used in the US first-not Polio- and see what ingredients were in them. Once again it comes down to facts.

 

Yes, I would be in error:

 

1796 vaccine for smallpox developed by Edward Jenner. This was the first vaccine developed as a treatment for any disease, and was derived from a weakened version of the disease cowpox.

 

19th century

 

1879 First vaccine for cholera

1885 First vaccine for rabies by Louis Pasteur and Émile Roux

1890 First vaccine for tetanus

1896 First vaccine for typhoid fever

1897 First vaccine for bubonic plague

 

20th century

 

1921 First vaccine for diphtheria

1926 First vaccine for pertussis (whooping cough)

1927 First vaccine for tuberculosis

1932 First vaccine for yellow fever

1937 First vaccine for typhus

1945 First vaccine for influenza

1952 First vaccine for polio by Jonas Salk

 

I don't know where to find a list of which ones were given at well baby visits, however.

 

asta

[Cindyz]

I don't know how anyone can assume that these studies can answer the question definitively one way or the other, because it assumes that we know all the possible variables to study. There are so many things that we do not know about this issue that we can't possibly formulate or trust any studies on the topic. These studies are great to move us toward a discovery, but unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. I think that's why the debate is so still so intense.

[mcconnellboys]

I don't trust studies that are funded by the companies (their partners or subsidiaries) who have a stake in the outcome. Researchers kowtow too much to pressure from those who fund them....

 

That said, my children are also fully vaccinated. I do, however, believe that those with a genetic predisposition toward certain sensitivities may be adversely affected by vaccines or other forms of medicines. With vaccines, I don't think it's necessarily even the medicine content, but sometimes the preservatives, contaminants, etc. that may cause the problems....

[Peela]

This just came in my inbox-

 

cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

 

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

[Joker]

This just came in my inbox-

 

cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

 

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

 

I read this and I don't know how I really feel. We have a good friend who swears his son was fine until he had vac's one day (four in one visit) and then something changed. He is autistic now. I don't know if vaccines have anything to do with it or not but I do know that we decided our dds would have no more than three in one visit. Sometimes the dr's would argue and try to pressure us but we were too concerned to change our minds. If I'm reading this right she received nine :001_huh: vac's in one visit. That seems excessive to me.

[Parrothead]

Peela, I couldn't copy/past your website so I googled. Here is one story about the decision.

 

I can barely comprehend a doctor allowing a child to receive 9 vaccines at one time. What was he/she thinking?

[nmoira]

This just came in my inbox-

 

cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

 

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

 

And in response:

 

Sharyl Attkisson blogs the Hannah Poling settlement

[cjbeach]

Peela, I couldn't copy/past your website so I googled. Here is one story about the decision.

 

I can barely comprehend a doctor allowing a child to receive 9 vaccines at one time. What was he/she thinking?

 

Our story is a few pages back but - same here. 9 vax does not equal 9 shots.

 

My son received MMR shot, DPT shot, varicella, hib and one more (it's 2am and I'm blanking) which were "only" (and I use the term ONLY very loosely) 5 shots. They were "making up" what he missed at his 15 month appointment so "caught him up" at the 18 month appt. Common practice for that practice. Nothing was doubled, they were just all given on the same day instead of one of the shots (or maybe it was 2) given at 15 mos.

 

He's also the same child who received Hep B at BIRTH (less than an hour old) though neither of us are Hep B +. Why on Earth...?????

 

I'm extremely sensitive to the issue because on top of being a nurse, this was my first baby. I went over and beyond on the holistic side. I ate organics, had a natural childbirth, breastfed, fed him only organics when of age, yet we feel we made a huge mistake following our pediatrician's advice re: vax at birth and the 15/18mo vax incident. My husband and I actually had an argument on the cellphone en route to the pedi's office the day of the 18 month appt. Dh called my cell to say he did not want the shots that day because of the controversy and I pssshawed him with an "Ohhhhhhhh John, come on...."

Edited September 19, 2010 by cjbeach

[cjbeach]

Hannah Polling's father is a Neurologist.

 

He has questioned the Mito and vax as the chicken or the egg idea.

[asta]

Get your tomatoes ready:

 

I think the whole Polling thing is a bunch of crap.

 

The child has a known mitochondrial disorder. Well, guess what? Something was going to set it off at some point. It may not have set it off in the direction of autistic symptoms, but it was going to set it off somehow. That is what happens with mitochondrial disorders. Welcome to genetics 101.

 

I don't know who I am more disappointed in, the vaccine court or the parents. As a doctor, as a NEUROLOGIST, he understands this basic concept and the ramifications thereof, yet he STILL went through the vaccine court as if a genetic problem was the fault of a vaccine. Yes, it is sad his daughter is how she is. Yes, as a parent one would want to strike out in anger. But you don't see anyone yelling at the mother do you? It's an X-linked disorder that (when it occurs) is normally found in females. And this particular mutation normally kills the woman.

 

This isn't about vaccines. It is (again) about not accepting the roll of the dice that is genetic mutation.

 

 

a

Edited September 19, 2010 by asta

[Parrothead]

Our story is a few pages back but - same here. 9 vax does not equal 9 shots.

 

 

I know.

 

Like you with the hep B at birth I can't figure out how anyone could think that a toddler's immune system can handle 9 vaxes at one time.

[cjbeach]

Get your tomatoes ready:

 

I think the whole Polling thing is a bunch of crap.

 

The child has a known mitochondrial disorder. Well, guess what? Something was going to set it off at some point. It may not have set it off in the direction of autistic symptoms, but it was going to set it off somehow. That is what happens with mitochondrial disorders. Welcome to genetics 101.

 

I don't know who I am more disappointed in, the vaccine court or the parents. As a doctor, as a NEUROLOGIST, he understands this basic concept and the ramifications thereof, yet he STILL went through the vaccine court as if a genetic problem was the fault of a vaccine. Yes, it is sad his daughter is how she is. Yes, as a parent one would want to strike out in anger. But you don't see anyone yelling at the mother do you? It's an X-linked disorder that (when it occurs) is normally found in females. And this particular mutation normally kills the woman.

 

This isn't about vaccines. It is (again) about not accepting the roll of the dice that is genetic mutation.

 

 

a

No tomatoes. That's your opinion. I have been through so much with ASD that though I may not agree on all points, I appreciate everyone's point of view. You learn something from everyone you meet. (FWIW, I'm the poster with the close family member who works for CHOP's Genomics unit who recently published a gene study on autism though it only repeated past info about single deletion.)

 

My opinion based on our experiences, reseach, and umpteen physicians/therapists/psychologist/psychiatrists is that it's not only a roll of the genetic dice but also the impact of the enviornment (vaccines) and immunological status. I do believe in a genetic component, absolutely, but there's more to it.

 

I believe we are giving way too much, too soon, to immature immune systems. It's not unusual for any state of immunosuppression to "flip a switch" (i.e. pregnancy). I believe the same for multiple vax in infancy. I have personally met too many parents with similar stories to ours to discount any vaccine "flip-switching." Poling's father feels the same.

Edited September 19, 2010 by cjbeach