Have you learned about the Koran in your HS?

[Saille]

How many WTM-ers have read about the Qur'an, discussed it during a history lesson, read bits of it, or even used it as part of a great books study in high school?

Edited September 11, 2010 by Saille

[MorganClassicalPrep]

I said no because.. well, DD is 4.5. lol. I do plan to cover it though, and hope to read parts of it eventually. I'm happy I've read it, enjoyed making comparisons to the Bible, and hope to do the same with DD when she is old enough.

[EJCMom]

We haven't yet, but it is in the plans when the kids are older.

[Saille]

LOL, I've got a bit of that, myself. My oldest is just finishing the Grammar Stage, so we've read *about* it, but not it, itself.

[Mom in High Heels]

Coincidentally, we learned about the Koran this week.

[Sahamamama]

We haven't read it yet, but we will when they are older.

 

In the primary grades (K-2nd), the girls will learn that there is a major world belief system called Islam. They will learn about the Five Pillars, Mecca in Saudi Arabia, some of the symbols of Islam (e.g., the crescent, the sword), and some of the practices of Muslims. They will learn that Islam is a way of life in many countries, and in which countries nearly all the people adhere to this system of belief and practice. They will learn about Islamic architecture and mosaics, listen to Middle Eastern music (we are Egyptian), and eat Middle Eastern food (yum).

 

In the grammar years (3rd-5th), they will learn more about Muhammad, the history of Islam (through our chronological world history studies), and more about the Qur'an in comparative theology studies (we will study and discuss worldview systems). They will further explore Islamic arts and sciences.

 

In the logic years (6th-8th), they will continue to learn more about world history, including the influence of Islam, Islamic art and science, and the clashing and melding of cultures in areas where Islam came into contact with different viewpoints and ways of life. They will learn of some not-so-nice events that have taken place -- both Muslim actions against others, and the actions of others against Muslims. They will compare passages of the Qur'an to passages of the (Christian) Bible. They will outline and write a paper on some aspect of their studies.

 

In the rhetoric years (9th-12th), they will read, discuss, and write about the entire Qur'an. They will study historic and modern worldwide Islam, its variants and subcultures, and its major theological tenets. They will compare and contrast Muslim and Christian viewpoints on sin, salvation, inspiration (and canon) of scriptures, authority and submission, the deity of Jesus Christ, the life and works of Jesus Christ, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, eternal life/afterlife, mercy and forgiveness, healing, the nature of God, and other doctrines. They will research, write, and present (orally) a paper on some aspect of their studies.

 

We are Christians, but this is our projected course of study, as it pertains to things Islamic. HTH.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Sahamamama

[MIch elle]

BTW, it's now spelled "Quran" in most updated publications.

[Gratia271]

We have read excerpts throughout our studies.

[Amira]

My family isn't Muslim, but we spend a lot of time in Muslim countries and with Muslims in the US. My children are very familiar with Islam. We haven't read a lot from the Qur'an itself yet, but we will do much more as they get older. I expect my children to be familiar with world religions in general, but Islam is important to us, so we spend a lot more time on it.

[specialmama]

I wish the poll would allow 2 choices because we learned from several sources and also read excerpts.

[Ester Maria]

We have a copy at our home library which, of course, they're free to consult whenever they want; for now, we read several excerpts during general Abrahamic religion studies and learning how Islam came to be and what are the basic tenets of the religion.

 

I don't intend to have them read it in its entirety (I did, btw), but I do plan to come back to it more in the future as we study religion(s).

[Parrothead]

If it is mentioned in SOTW then we read that part of SOTW. I do seem to remember something about the 5 pillars.

 

As for studying it or reading it in its entirety, no, I have no plans for us to do that. For us it will be a great accomplishment if we get the Bible read along with the CCC. There is quite a bit to cover in 2000 years of chruch history. Yes, the good and the bad.

 

And to clarify so there is no crying fowl we will not be studying much of the Jewish Talmud. The Torah will be read as it is the firs 5 books of the Bible. We won't be getting into the Talmud any more than we will the Qu'ran. We also won't get too much into Buddhism or Hinduism.

 

I'm sure each one will be touched upon, but no in depth study of them will be done. I'll have had only 12 years, and there is only so much that can be accomplished in that amount of time.

[Spy Car]

BTW, it's now spelled "Quran" in most updated publications.

 

Or better yet, Qur'an.

 

Koran is a very unfortunate spelling because it violates transliteration schemes (Arabic has a "kaf", which is transliterated as a "K" and a "qaf", which is transliterated as a "Q." Qur'an (in Arabic) begins with a qaf--not a kaf.

 

It would be like transliterating "Bible" as "Piple" in a language that posessed a "B" character in the alphabet.

 

The vowel sound in "Koran" is also wrong, and combined with the "K" this spelling encourages a mispronunciation of the word as "speech." Qur'an is not only better from a transliteration sense (so it is not "mispelled) it also encourages English speakers to more closely approximate the Arabic. Koran has the opposite effect.

 

There is also a very brief stop between the syllables in pronunciation of the word, which is why Qur'an is preferable over Quran.

 

Bill

Edited September 10, 2010 by Spy Car

[6packofun]

This would have been our choice, as well. We learned something about the Qur'an and then sometimes we would read an associated passage from the book itself.

[Kate in Arabia]

I didn't answer the poll, I figured it'd be obvious that we read it a lot. The kids read some every morning, and they attend an evening class four nights a week to work on memorizing it. This is in addition to the ritual daily prayers, where we recite some as well. It is recommended to try and read the entire Qur'an during the month of Ramadan; fortunately we were able to do this as a family this year. And we listen to Qur'an recitation a lot just in general.

 

There is also a very brief stop between the syllables in pronunciation of the word, which is why Qur'an is preferable over Quran.

I'm sure you already know this, but for others the stop, which is marked by an apostrophe, is actually a letter. So to write Quran (or Koran) is to leave out a letter, one that we don't have in English so it's a bit tricky.

[Ester Maria]

but for others the stop, which is marked by an apostrophe, is actually a letter.

Really? Wow, this is new to me.

 

I was always convinced it was just a pause, but not an actual letter; there is such a thing in Hebrew too in some words.

[Kate in Arabia]

I was always convinced it was just a pause, but not an actual letter; there is such a thing in Hebrew too in some words.

It's a hamza. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamza

 

The root word for Qur'an is qa ra 'a, which means to read/recite. I think Arabic is similar to Hebrew, in that short vowels generally aren't written, so the root letters are qaaf raa hamza, q r '

[Spy Car]

Really? Wow, this is new to me.

 

I was always convinced it was just a pause, but not an actual letter; there is such a thing in Hebrew too in some words.

 

If you look at Qur'an written in Arabic you will see a diacritical mark above the "alif" (which looks roughly like a "l" in The Latin alphabet) it looks somewhat like a "c" in our alphabet (with the addition on a little stem. That is a Hamza, and in this use represents a brief glottal stop.

 

Bill

[dangermom]

My oldest is just getting into logic stage, so we have only read about it so far. I will have them read excerpts when they are a bit older.

[Ester Maria]

If you look at Qur'an written in Arabic

:blush: Yes, sure...

 

They taught me alif-ba some time ago... Long time ago...

(I would actually really like to learn Arabic. I keep on planning to do so.)

 

Thanks for the explanation to both of you, though. :)

[chubbyhugs]

We read about Islam in the grammar years. She read some of the verses last year. Dd14 will be discussing the Quran with her online Great Books Discussion in two years.

[Mom-ninja.]

We have read about Islam in history, and we have read children's books written about Islam and books for Islamic children. That's it for now.

[Spy Car]

:blush: Yes, sure...

 

They taught me alif-ba some time ago... Long time ago...

(I would actually really like to learn Arabic. I keep on planning to do so.)

 

Thanks for the explanation to both of you, though. :)

 

It is surprisingly easy to learn the alphabet, and to "read" on a very basic level. And rather fun.

 

Learning the Arabic language(s) on the other hand...is rather daunting from my perspective, but with your language gifts (and knowledge of Hebrew) I would not underestimate you.

 

As a side note, it is interesting to look at the Arabic characters and the Hebrew characters (which often carry the same or similar names and sounds) and see how the forms are often similar or have enough in common so you can see how they "evolved."

 

Bill

[Lovedtodeath]

I chose the second option as most JWs will read parts of it as we use our materials to study other religions.

 

I have not addressed it much with our 8 year old other than a brief discussion of what Allah means and people we may know who are Muslim. Oh yes, and a book about modern Egypt that we read was mostly about Islam and how it affected the main character's day.

[oldskool]

Yes, due to Islamic studies being a part of our curriculum.:)

 

Lesley

[coffeefreak]

LOL, I've got a bit of that, myself. My oldest is just finishing the Grammar Stage, so we've read *about* it, but not it, itself.

 

Ditto! DH read it in College and says, like the Bible, it is a must read.

[kewb]

Other. The kids know what it is. We have discussed many different religions and what they study. I do have plans to study pieces from the Koran as the kids get older.

[Imprimis]

My 15 yo will be studying excerpts from the Qur'an this year.

 

Any recommendations for good online translations? How about essential readings from the Qur'an?

[NanceXToo]

Maybe "Not Yet, But We Will" should be a poll option. That's what I'd probably put.

[chiguirre]

We listened to SOTW 2 and read Demi's life of Muhammed. The book is lovely, like all of Demi's stuff. I don't think the kids remembered much until a Muslim family joined our play group and they wanted to know more.

 

ETA: I do plan to study Islam and the Quran in more depth when the kids are older.

[sassenach]

I voted based on my 8th grader, who knows what it is, bit hasn't read any of it. We covered world religions in 6th grade. My 1st and 2nd grader haven't learned anything about it, yet.

[MIch elle]

Or better yet, Qur'an.

 

 

Bill

 

Thanks for the info. :001_smile:

[Rosie_0801]

If my plan for teaching religions continues into reality, we'll be touching on Islam in each stage of the trivium, fairly similar to what Sahamamma outlined. We won't be able to have as heavy a high school course load as many of you do, so I'm strongly considering using the major religious texts as our Great Books study.

 

Rosie

[radiobrain]

No, and I haven't done the Bible yet either.

 

Or any other religious text.

 

That is something we will study further up in the grades, but right now, my kids are not open to any religion at all, so I will not waste my time. They do love M theory, though.

[Spy Car]

Thanks for the info. :001_smile:

 

The New York Times and Time Magazine are two of the leading publication who (to their discredit) still use "Koran."

 

Bill

[Joanne]

Of course. I believe it is *imperative* to understand the major world religions in order to study and understand world history (and current events). That means each developmental stage the kids are in, we do more in each major religion. We learned about Islam and read from the Koran in our homeschool.

 

I am teaching at a high school this year and the semester project for World History and Geoghraphy includes researching and presenting information in all major world religions.

[Joanne]

No, and I haven't done the Bible yet either.

 

Or any other religious text.

 

That is something we will study further up in the grades, but right now, my kids are not open to any religion at all, so I will not waste my time. They do love M theory, though.

 

Really? At 10 and 11? How can a person study and understand world history without understanding the religions and thinking that fueled it?

[radiobrain]

Really? At 10 and 11? How can a person study and understand world history without understanding the religions and thinking that fueled it?

 

You can understand religions and the why and how, and how they split apart w/o actually reading the texts those religions are based on. I don't think that a 10 or 11 yo could really understand what they would be reading at that age anyway... I mean my kids could read Crime and Punishment, but they would not quite understand it...KWIM? I never said I wasn't going to have them read some of them at some point.

 

I am an agnostic (my husband is Catholic). I grew up in an Atheist/ Scientist/ Artist/ Musician/ iconoclast household. I have no business teaching anything religious, except in a historical, cultural or literature sense.

 

I meant we had not ACTUALLY read any of it, or studied it formally. They know what the Bible and the Qar'an are. They know what most of the world religions and their books are. We are quite aware that history is based on religions, thank you. :tongue_smilie:I am more interested in getting my kids to spell, do algebra, and write a paper than do a comparative religion course in 5th/ 6th grade. Besides, they are not open to it right now. They just aren't.

 

I don't think you meant what you said to sound like I am taking it, so I am sorry if I am being snarky or obnoxious, back. It has been a long day.....

[Sahamamama]

It is surprisingly easy to learn the alphabet, and to "read" on a very basic level. And rather fun.

 

Learning the Arabic language(s) on the other hand...is rather daunting from my perspective, but with your language gifts (and knowledge of Hebrew) I would not underestimate you.

 

As a side note, it is interesting to look at the Arabic characters and the Hebrew characters (which often carry the same or similar names and sounds) and see how the forms are often similar or have enough in common so you can see how they "evolved."

 

Bill

 

This is true. My husband is of Egyptian descent, born in the US. When he went to study in Egypt, he was a fluent speaker of Egyptian Arabic (a spoken language), but could not read Arabic (written classically, which is how it is always written, from what he says). His aunt taught him to read Arabic at about a 4th grade level, so he was functional.

 

The GRAMMATICAL Arabic, as my in-laws call it, was detestable to them. They hated studying this torturous subject for years on end in school, but it was a requirement, naturally. This is what they read when they read anything written in Arabic. Surprisingly (to me), there is no written form of the vernacular Arabic(s) that are spoken in the Middle East, at least as far as I understand it.

 

My husband can read some Arabic, he speaks it rather fluently from so much exposure to it all his life. He says that he can often understand Hebrew, written and spoken. Ester Maria, if you know Hebrew, then Arabic will come naturally to you. Good luck with it! (Hope we didn't hijack this thread). :blush:

[Kate in Arabia]

Surprisingly (to me), there is no written form of the vernacular Arabic(s) that are spoken in the Middle East, at least as far as I understand it.

 

You can see dialects written in some modern literary works; I will admit it looks really strange to me, I sometimes have to read a passage out loud to hear it before I can understand it, kwim?

 

It reminds me of some American literary works that include characters who have a strong accent.

[Saille]

Thanks for explaining about the spelling. Sorry guys, I can edit my original post, but can't figure out how to edit the thread title or the poll. If I ever refer to the Piple in future, however, it is not a typo, just an effort to balance the scales. :tongue_smilie:

[Sahamamama]

Surprisingly (to me), there is no written form of the vernacular Arabic(s) that are spoken in the Middle East, at least as far as I understand it.

 

You can see dialects written in some modern literary works; I will admit it looks really strange to me, I sometimes have to read a passage out loud to hear it before I can understand it, kwim?

 

It reminds me of some American literary works that include characters who have a strong accent.

 

Yes, Kate, I think this is rather recent, if I remember correctly, maybe the past decade or so. In the ooooooooold days, LOL, when my in-laws were in school in Egypt, THEY had just the classical (written) and the vernacular (spoken). The two are so dissimilar, from what they tell me, that sometimes it was like two separate languages.

 

Anyway, I do think this has changed within the last decade, especially with more "outside" companies in Egypt itself, the Internet, TV, and the influence on Egyptian Arabic of the worldwide Egyptian diaspora. It all filters into the vernacular to change it (many, many "American" words there now), and then the vernacular does seem to be seeping into the classical, written Arabic. It's definitely gotten more casual, my in-laws say.

 

We've seen signs in the local M.E. market that say, entirely in Arabic writing,

 

 

"Oh, Habby Day!"

 

 

 

or

 

 

"Do you want a BEBSI?"

 

 

 

[This is because Egyptian vernacular Arabic doesn't have a P sound. So it's "babyrus" and "byramids" and "I give you good brice."]

 

When my husband sees signs like these, he asphyxiates himself with laughter. :lol::lol::lol:

 

He told his father about these on the phone, and they were howling for 10 minutes.

 

Something is funny in this, I'm sure, but you'd have to be Egyptian to get it. :001_huh:

Edited September 12, 2010 by Sahamamama

[smrtmama]

We'll cover it as part of comparative/world religion. I took a great Mideast-centric world history class taught by a PhD of Islamic Law (teensy, white, probably gay Southern man) and found it fascinating, so I'd like to share that w/ my kids. Plus, SO relevant to current events.

[IsabelC]

We have mentioned it, haven't learnt about it yet, but are planning to.

[Bee]

any more than I'd assign them to read the bible. I will suggest they read religious books for reference to other literature and cultural things (like movies and tv shows) but if they aren't interested I won't force it on them. Many of the books that had the most influence on me were books that I read on my own; the ones I was forced to read were usually quickly forgotten.