people with no manners raising kids with no manners

[Denisemomof4]

Today I took my kids to the zoo. I have an ankle/foot injury and am unable to be on my feet all day. I wore my air cast, brought crutches, and my son pushed me in a wheelchair all day. We rented one right when we got there.

 

I had NO IDEA I'd be gawked at all day because I was in a wheelchair, and I'm about to take a vacation in one! Some kids even looked scared of me! Ds noticed the looks within minutes of me getting into the chair.

 

I don't understand why adults behave so badly. Why stare at me? And really, what's wrong with you? Do you see my cast? My crutches? How I get up and walk around unassisted sometimes? Not that it matters. You have NO RIGHT to gawk at me. And what about your children? They're as rude as you. Why don't you teach your kids about manners, and why not start with yourself and model yourself as an example, you moron.

 

I really didn't feel badly for myself or my son. I asked my son if he was embarrassed and he said he wasn't, but that he was shocked to see people acting this way. But what I did reflect on all day was how people who actually deal with this Every Day Of Their Life must feel. I just felt so sad for them. I was extra sensitive to watching these same morons gawk at the beautiful Downs Syndrome people enjoying their day. I reflected on the time I went to the local farm stand and watched a family of 5 stare, NONSTOP, at a severely impaired man, probably in his 20's. My heart ached even more for the parents, who have learned to become numb and ignore the idiotic behavior of these socially inept beings.

 

And then I come here and read Specialmama's post. :(

 

Most of you know that my youngest is adopted from China. If I hear one more person make a rude comment, IN HER PRESENCE, about all the stuff "made in China" or how it's unhealthy because it was "made in China," etc., I just might have to do this: :boxing_smiley:

 

Or what should the proper response be when dh and I and our bio kids and adopted daughter, Chinese, are out in public and someone asks, "Is she adopted?" Maybe I should get up the nerve to say, "No. The other three are." :angry:

 

The way kids stare and stare and stare and the parents say NOTHING is sickening to me.

 

Know how sometimes on tv they'll take a beautiful actress and put them in what they call a "fat suit" and send her out in public to see how she's treated differently? I feel like I had my own experiment today. I wasn't embarrassed for me at all, but I want all of you here who are dealing with a handicapped person on ANY level to know that I feel your pain others cause and I'm so sorry.

:grouphug:

 

And the word handicapped to me is 100% acceptable to use and I will not buy a book to learn new and improved terms. Those will be outdated in no time, too.:glare:

Edited August 19, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[Gooblink]

Thank you for the perspective. I don't believe we're of those families, but...I'll try to be more sensitive about it, now.

 

My son wears an insulin pump and we're used to people staring at that, trying to figure it out. Occassionally someone will walk up and ask about it, but it's never been an issue and ds says he's not self-conscious of it.

[kalanamak]

Boors! Hoi polloi! You can dress 'em up but you can't take 'em out!

 

 

I can just hear my mother muttering. I can also recall all the times she said "it isn't polite to stare".

[tampamommy]

It is truly amazing how insensitive rude adults and their offspring can be. So much of it comes down to just plain human consideration. This doesn't mean making sure we are politically correct in everything we say. So honestly, I'd be a little less sensitive about the "made in China" comments.

 

But asking about adoption and staring at others because they have a handicap or a different looking child (whatever the difference) is just uncalled for. Obviously these adults didn't learn from their parents that it is not polite to stare and speak without thinking. And they weren't intelligent enough to figure it out on their own. So they are clueless about teaching their children manners and consideration.

 

Sadly, I do think it is a reflection of intelligence level (or the lack thereof). People who are well-educated (and that can happen in lots of different ways including being well-read without any formal education) have broader minds, understand and appreciate the gifts each person has, may have experience with people from other cultures, and are confident enough in themselves to make sure they don't put others down in any way (even by staring).

 

So take a deep breath and try to not let the fun things you enjoyed today be clouded by the blatant ignorance of others.

[missiemick]

We're "manners sensitive" around here -- we work on it all the time. I can understand why it is offensive for people to make rude comments but not "staring." People that are different are interesting -- when my children see someone that is different -- it interests them. They don't judge, they just wonder why. I see it as an opportunity to show my children how each of us is different (and possibly may need extra help -- hold open the door for someone on crutches, listen carefully without interrupting someone that stutters . . .) but always emphasize how that doesn't negate their worth. Besides, someday they might need to use crutches . . . and their only experience is watching other that have used them. My niece also wears an insulin pump and my sister is extra sensitive about people looking at her pump or watching her check her sugar levels. I've witnessed many people come up to her and ask questions and they always end up saying something along the lines of knowing someone with diabetes . . . Like I said, I don't understand why it's rude to "stare."

[justamouse]

Maybe I should get up the nerve to say, "No. The other three are." :angry:

 

The way kids stare and stare and stare and the parents say NOTHING is sickening to me.

 

 

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I used to work in a severe disabilities hosp and we'd take the kids and adults out shopping. I know what you're talking about and it IS horrible. I'm so sorry you were treated like that.

 

The bolded? Yes, say it. And say it loud. Because if they are so obnoxious as to ask, then they deserve an answer that will make them scratch their heads.

 

We do not stare, we do not point. We do not whisper in the presence of other people. We do not make other people feel less than at any time. Ask my kids, they hear it All The Time.

[littlebug42]

I became much more sensitive to it when my youngest dd was born with a clubfoot that required her to be in a hip to toe cast beginning when she was 10 days old. The comments and stares I got were infuriating basically with the implication that I had broken her leg. It continued throughout her infancy and early toddler years with different casts and braces, all with the same implication and looks of horror. Many times it made me want to cry and others I just wanted to scream at them. I am definitely teaching my daughters to be more sensitive about such things.

[scubamama]

:grouphug:

So there!

Thanks for this post. My mom was severly handicapped by MS. I never saw her walk. She had a scooter type wheelchair. And she was a terrible driver! :lol:

Anyhow, my childhood was nothing short of a gawkfest. Once we were at Hershypark (chocolate!!!) and some early teen boys thought it was funny to hang on the back of her chair like she was part of the act at the park. I was so mortified for her, I think I was about 7 and it really affected me. There's just no excuse. She was a funny loving person - being handicapped didn't change that at all.

My youngest dd has a dark purple hemangioma on her cheek. I've been accused many, many times of slapping her - or worse! One day I went to Walmart, CVS, and the petco and an employee in each place accused me of hurting my daughter...then when I explained it was a birth mark they were confused and didn't believe me. In the Petco I just told the clerk she had cancer and was going to die and that it was horrible for her to ask what was wrong with her. I also reported her to the manager. I mean, really! 3 times in one day? Did they only schedule ignorant rude people to work that day?

I find it to be a terrible reflection on society as a whole when we look down or mock or make handicapped people of any kind feel less than. It disgusts me, and now that I'm no longer 7, I let fly with comments that are meant to shame the gawker or finger pointer.

Ahhh! revenge is sweet!!!

I'm just doing my part to serve the underserved part of the community...underserved in the manners acqusition department.

 

Michele

[NanceXToo]

We're "manners sensitive" around here -- we work on it all the time. I can understand why it is offensive for people to make rude comments but not "staring." People that are different are interesting -- when my children see someone that is different -- it interests them. They don't judge, they just wonder why. I see it as an opportunity to show my children how each of us is different (and possibly may need extra help -- hold open the door for someone on crutches, listen carefully without interrupting someone that stutters . . .) but always emphasize how that doesn't negate their worth.

 

Good post. Besides, I'd worry if I'm all "Don't look! It's rude to stare!" it would make them learn to sort of "see through" people with disabilities rather than becoming somewhat accustomed to seeing them like anyone else and learning to treat them as any regular person. Which they can't do, I don't think, if I'm sending out "just avert your eyes!" vibes to them (which is probably how kids would interpret "don't stare!")

[Pamela H in Texas]

*I* tend not to notice; but my hubby, when we were younger, certainly did. And he *was* embarassed and not nearly as mature as your ds. In fact, one time, my BIL pushed me at an amusement park instead of my hubby doing it!

 

I think me looking so young at the time (well, I guess I still don't look quite my age) didn't help. I didn't have a cast or crutches. So I looked like a teenager getting a ride for who knows what reason.

 

I tell you what. I use a motorized scooter now and it's AWESOME. I have young men coming up to me JUST to tell me how "sweet my ride" is. LOL Did I tell y'all about the time the greeter at Walmart (older man) was moving the scooters and challenged me to a race?

 

Anyway, I don't have any real input. I don't think people mean to be rude or that you're less of a person. I think sometimes they are trying to figure out the situation and maybe see if we're happy or able to do X or Y or whatever. Sure, they shouldn't stare; but....

 

OH, at the high school, the kids would just ask why I was so young, didn't seem to have anything wrong with me and had the scooter. They even, half-accusingly, suggested I just didn't want to walk. I just took the opportunity to let them know that not every disability is obvious looking at someone. I didn't think they were RUDE, just had an 6yo curiosity they still felt free enough expressing. I'm glad I'm a safe person to ask. But mostly? The high school boys wanted to take my scooter for a spin and wanted to see if I could leap buildings in a single bound :)

 

Oh, and to make things worse on my still immature at the time hubby, my ds was hooked to a machine the first year of his life. So we had all the trouble of lugging that around AND people wondering why our kid had blinking lights and wires.

 

I think I just got the "oblivious to what other people think about things I can't change" gene and hubby didn't. He is not embarrassed of my scooter, fat, or geekiness anymore though. He thinks I'm "normal." He has plenty to think about rude ones though :)

 

ETA: I think it's just a matter of what people know. Generally, young women with no obvious impairment aren't in wheelchairs. Generally, the only casted infants we see on tv are those whose mothers allowed some man to throw the baby against a wall. Generally, we're outraged when we see what may be bruise marks on a child. Generally, we're not used to seeing an infant hooked up to devices out in public. People are gaining experience when we are just open to talking to them. Their world is widening up.

Edited August 19, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[littlebug42]

 

ETA: I think it's just a matter of what people know. Generally, young women with no obvious impairment aren't in wheelchairs. Generally, the only casted infants we see on tv are those whose mothers allowed some man to throw the baby against a wall. Generally, we're outraged when we see what may be bruise marks on a child. Generally, we're not used to seeing an infant hooked up to devices out in public. People are gaining experience when we are just open to talking to them. Their world is widening up.

 

I definitely understand this and I would educate the people that asked. However, some days when I was already stressed and worrying about the state of my baby's future, the last thing I wanted to be was a teacher to someone else. I also do not believe that ignorance is an excuse for rudeness. I could very easily handle the people that were just curious. It was the rude ones that I had a big problem with.

[Pamela H in Texas]

OH Jenni, I so understand. And I do believe people should learn to express themselves appropriately. In my case, that would sometimes be to restate the question for some teenager in the way it SHOULD have been asked. But that doesn't help much the rude checker at Target.

 

I'm sorry you went through all that.

 

I guess my real thought is that *I* grew up believing that "don't be rude" = "avert your eyes" and that I always had some shame in noticing someone's impairment and for having questions in my head. I'm POSITIVE my mother and father did not INTEND to instill all THAT, but that is what happened. So when I'm dealing with others, I *try* to appreciate that they at least aren't going through all the anguish I have for years regarding this topic.

 

Of course, like you said, it's hard to think that way when you're sitting in a wheelchair at 20years old or when your baby is the one with the difference. I've had both those experiences so do understand.

[Denisemomof4]

We're "manners sensitive" around here -- we work on it all the time. I can understand why it is offensive for people to make rude comments but not "staring." People that are different are interesting -- when my children see someone that is different -- it interests them. They don't judge, they just wonder why. I see it as an opportunity to show my children how each of us is different (and possibly may need extra help -- hold open the door for someone on crutches, listen carefully without interrupting someone that stutters . . .) but always emphasize how that doesn't negate their worth. Besides, someday they might need to use crutches . . . and their only experience is watching other that have used them. My niece also wears an insulin pump and my sister is extra sensitive about people looking at her pump or watching her check her sugar levels. I've witnessed many people come up to her and ask questions and they always end up saying something along the lines of knowing someone with diabetes . . . Like I said, I don't understand why it's rude to "stare."

 

I was always taught it was rude to stare, and I agree. My situation is only temporary so it's easy to deal with. But the poor people who have a disability and are always stared at, can you imagine how they feel?

 

I honestly never looked at people staring as them just being curious at someone different. I think it's rude to stare, and I don't allow my children to. It's uncomfortable for the person with the handicap. If you consider that this person is likely stared at Every Single TIme while out in public, maybe you can understand that the person really just wants to be left alone.

[littlebug42]

On the bright side, this same daughter that I went through this with, has a beautiful ability to take everyone for who they are and doesn't seem to see differences. I don't even really feel that I have taught her that. She has such a lovely friendship with a little girl that we know that is severely disabled. Her friend is wheelchair bound and doesn't speak but Boo-Boo loves her unconditionally. It is such a beautiful thing to witness. After what she is been through in her short 6 years, Boo-Boo is truly my hero. She has taught me more about love, acceptance and courage than I ever thought possible.

 

ETA: My Boo Boo is the child pictured in my avatar. She is wearing her foot brace in this picture while she is sleeping when she was about 18 months old.

[Denisemomof4]

There is a difference between a curious child wondering about something new, and the kind of open mouthed staring I have seen from some people. The first don't bother me, it's normal and a good time to educate. The second kind are highly uncouth and frustrating.

 

I agree with this, but I think the parent should be more attentive to their child. A look out of curiosity is one thing, but staring nonstop is rude and that's when the parent needs to say something. A curious look for several minutes is not acceptable to me.

[Denisemomof4]

Good post. Besides, I'd worry if I'm all "Don't look! It's rude to stare!" it would make them learn to sort of "see through" people with disabilities rather than becoming somewhat accustomed to seeing them like anyone else and learning to treat them as any regular person. Which they can't do, I don't think, if I'm sending out "just avert your eyes!" vibes to them (which is probably how kids would interpret "don't stare!")

 

well, this is what I do with my kids. I teach them that it's rude to stare. But many times in their lives I've also taught them about different people and such. And they learn by example while they watch me open the door for someone in a wheelchair, or have them run to open the door for the person. They learn as they watch me talk to someone handicap as if they were a normal person, because they are, they just have a handicap of some sort. They learn to treat them as they'd treat others, but to be sensitive to help if the person needs help. They learn by watching me help out others all the time, because I just have a heart for people less fortunate, the elderly, or people or animals that need my help.

 

So I do tell them not to stare, but they most definitely don't learn to look through people because we've covered that at other times all through out their lives. They also see me look away, sometimes teary eyed, because I either feel badly for the person, or I'm teary eyed because of how people are making that person feel. But I mostly look away because that person deserves to be as anonymous out in public as the rest of us do.

 

I took my mother out many times. When her Parkinsons was getting worse, she had this blank look about her that made her look different, and she wasn't able to walk normally. I remember how embarrassed she was when people stared at her. She just wanted to be left alone. Eventually she decided that she was made so uncomfortable out in public that she never went out again, until her dementia became so bad that I knew she no longer cared what others thought. Then I took her out because I knew she'd have fun, and she did. And when I was 17 I cared for a woman who was confined to a wheelchair due to MS. I took her MANY places as a kid. We'd throw her wheelchair into my Mustang and go to the lake, shopping, out for a frappe. She became my friend and I loved to take her out. She loved me because I was the ONLY person who treated her like she was no different from me. I remember how the stares made her feel. And it angered me.

 

I think a curious glance is ok, but then we need to teach manners.

[Denisemomof4]

I definitely understand this and I would educate the people that asked. However, some days when I was already stressed and worrying about the state of my baby's future, the last thing I wanted to be was a teacher to someone else. I also do not believe that ignorance is an excuse for rudeness. I could very easily handle the people that were just curious. It was the rude ones that I had a big problem with.

 

and some people are rude by ignoring why you came to the zoo, TO SEE ANIMALS, and instead stare at the handicap person or someone with Downs Syndrome. When one DS person laughed out loud, a parent moved her kids away from them, like they'd get some sort of disease from this person with their mouths open. :confused: Or the kids would stare with their mouths hanging open at me (which is funny, really, I mean I had NO IDEA a sprain would draw such attention!) This wasn't a curious child, this was rude gawking, and the parents should have stepped in.

 

Sometimes I get so tired of having to educate on adoption or RAD. But mostly I'm thankful that I can educate at least some people about RAD because most never have to deal with it.

 

BUT, I think if people could understand what it's like to have a handicap and be gawked at all the time, maybe they, and their kids, could be more sensitive.

[Impish]

I get stared at. Folks notice there's something 'not quite right', and it takes them a bit to figure out that I'm not using my right arm. Puzzles them even more when they realize that I *have* my arm (no amputation or visible deformity), and no sling, brace etc.

 

What gets me is that strangers think they have a right to know why I'm only using 1 arm. "Whats wrong with you?" has been asked frequently. I don't see why ppl think they have the right to ask anyone that, even when phrased politely. An offer to help is one thing. I've had cashiers watch me struggle to put bills back in my wallet, some just silently help, some ask if they can, and others roll their eyes impatiently, tapping their fingers, waiting to get on to the next customer.

 

But yeah. Asking what's wrong with me makes me want to spout off several not so nice responses. So far, I've either met their question with a frozen glare, or for those that seem genuinely concerned, not just nosy, I've said that I have RSD and gave a very brief explanation of what that is.

 

Just bugs me that ppl think that they have the right to even ask.

[Denisemomof4]

 

I guess my real thought is that *I* grew up believing that "don't be rude" = "avert your eyes" and that I always had some shame in noticing someone's impairment and for having questions in my head. I'm POSITIVE my mother and father did not INTEND to instill all THAT, but that is what happened. So when I'm dealing with others, I *try* to appreciate that they at least aren't going through all the anguish I have for years regarding this topic.

 

 

 

Did your parents ONLY say "don't be rude" or "Don't stare" and did they say it in a way as you were a bad person for doing so? Again, there's a difference in looking out of curiosity and staring/gawking. I know that I never have shame for noticing someone's differences, and I know my kids don't. But my older kids now will tell my younger kids, "Don't stare, you're being rude." I think that we've taught our kids well and they don't have this shame for noticing differences, but they realize the different person deserves anonymity as much as anyone else. And they will be quick to help. I've witnessed this MANY times and it warms my heart. What do you think the difference is? Why do you think my kids have learned as they have and you felt some sort of shame for noticing a handicap? This intrigues me.

[Catwoman]

Well, I've always taught my ds that if he has a question about someone, staring is rude, but starting a friendly conversation and asking a polite question is ok. If he does happen to stare at someone for a minute (out of curiosity -- usually trying to figure out the mechanics of their motorized scooters -- LOL!) and the person notices, he should just smile and say hi, and just be his usual friendly self. I hope that's the right thing to do.

 

Ds is very accepting of everyone, and we have never had an incident where he seemed to make anyone uncomfortable, because treating people equally seems to come naturally to him.

 

I have seen other children and adults whose behavior has absolutely mortified me, and I can't help but wondering if they'd been raised by wolves... although I think the wolves treat each other more respectfully!

 

Cat

[Harriet Vane]

We're "manners sensitive" around here -- we work on it all the time. I can understand why it is offensive for people to make rude comments but not "staring." People that are different are interesting -- when my children see someone that is different -- it interests them. They don't judge, they just wonder why. I see it as an opportunity to show my children how each of us is different (and possibly may need extra help -- hold open the door for someone on crutches, listen carefully without interrupting someone that stutters . . .) but always emphasize how that doesn't negate their worth. Besides, someday they might need to use crutches . . . and their only experience is watching other that have used them. My niece also wears an insulin pump and my sister is extra sensitive about people looking at her pump or watching her check her sugar levels. I've witnessed many people come up to her and ask questions and they always end up saying something along the lines of knowing someone with diabetes . . . Like I said, I don't understand why it's rude to "stare."

 

I have to disagree. It IS rude to stare. The person being stared at becomes horribly self-conscious, and that is just not kind to do to someone.

 

I am not disabled, but I do live as a white woman in an African-American neighborhood. I have worked and volunteered for roughly 20 years in some of the poorest sections of the inner city. For seven years I attended a church that was 90% African-American as well (my current church is about 60/40). I know all about being stared at--the difference is that I chose to be here. The handicapped did not make that choice.

 

AND a person's disability is NOT there for the educational benefit of someone else's kids!!! The disability or injury is a clear indication of pain in that person's life, on many levels. It is NOT okay to add to that pain by requiring the handicapped to also be a walking museum exhibit.

 

The most basic desire of those who are different in some way is just to be "normal." At the least, let's give them the right to have unfettered good times like the rest of us, free from feeling like they are under the eye of paparazzi wherever they go.

[Denisemomof4]

I have to disagree. It IS rude to stare. The person being stared at becomes horribly self-conscious, and that is just not kind to do to someone.

 

I am not disabled, but I do live as a white woman in an African-American neighborhood. I have worked and volunteered for roughly 20 years in some of the poorest sections of the inner city. For seven years I attended a church that was 90% African-American as well (my current church is about 60/40). I know all about being stared at--the difference is that I chose to be here. The handicapped did not make that choice.

 

AND a person's disability is NOT there for the educational benefit of someone else's kids!!! The disability or injury is a clear indication of pain in that person's life, on many levels. It is NOT okay to add to that pain by requiring the handicapped to also be a walking museum exhibit.

 

The most basic desire of those who are different in some way is just to be "normal." At the least, let's give them the right to have unfettered good times like the rest of us, free from feeling like they are under the eye of paparazzi wherever they go.

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

[Impish]

I have to disagree. It IS rude to stare. The person being stared at becomes horribly self-conscious, and that is just not kind to do to someone.

 

I am not disabled, but I do live as a white woman in an African-American neighborhood. I have worked and volunteered for roughly 20 years in some of the poorest sections of the inner city. For seven years I attended a church that was 90% African-American as well (my current church is about 60/40). I know all about being stared at--the difference is that I chose to be here. The handicapped did not make that choice.

 

AND a person's disability is NOT there for the educational benefit of someone else's kids!!! The disability or injury is a clear indication of pain in that person's life, on many levels. It is NOT okay to add to that pain by requiring the handicapped to also be a walking museum exhibit.

 

The most basic desire of those who are different in some way is just to be "normal." At the least, let's give them the right to have unfettered good times like the rest of us, free from feeling like they are under the eye of paparazzi wherever they go.

Thank you so much for saying that! Being quizzed on my disability is something I hate when I'm out, and those that ask get offended if I don't want to answer their rude questions!

[Denisemomof4]

On the bright side, this same daughter that I went through this with, has a beautiful ability to take everyone for who they are and doesn't seem to see differences. I don't even really feel that I have taught her that. She has such a lovely friendship with a little girl that we know that is severely disabled. Her friend is wheelchair bound and doesn't speak but Boo-Boo loves her unconditionally. It is such a beautiful thing to witness. After what she is been through in her short 6 years, Boo-Boo is truly my hero. She has taught me more about love, acceptance and courage than I ever thought possible.

 

ETA: My Boo Boo is the child pictured in my avatar. She is wearing her foot brace in this picture while she is sleeping when she was about 18 months old.

 

this is SO beautiful, Jenni. I'm so happy for your daughter and especially for her friend!!!

 

My girls had the most beautiful relationship with my mother. I can't even describe it all, but to watch them light up when Nana was brought out in the morning was such a beautiful thing. Even out in public, or when we visited her in the nursing home, my dd10, especially, was just so proud of her Nana. She'd cut her food and feed her, help the other elderly in the dining room, etc. And she was only 6 when we'd go to the nursing home. Youngest dd was only 5 when her Nana, whom she loved, would grab her arm, squeeze it hard, and tell her she was a bad girl. Dd would laugh at her and never took it personally, likely because I explained to the girls that Nana was a wonderful woman who has a sick brain, now, and didn't mean what she was saying. My kids never, ever were offended when she was mean to them. They laughed because they all were able to remember the REAL Nana.

 

But my girls, to watch them with her was so beautiful. They'd brush her hair, wash her face, put on her make-up, fight over which jewelry to put on, :rolleyes: they'd help hook her up to the machine so I could stand her, they'd position the commode under her, they helped dress her and even change her diapers. They WANTED to. They gave and gave and gave and got little back. They'd have their friends over and proudly introduce their Nana. It was just so beautiful.

 

I don't know why, this has caused me to get so emotional now!

 

ETA I spoke only of my girls above but even my boys just cherished their Nana. They LOVED having her at our house, even though it meant we really couldn't leave it because of her. They talked with her every single day, and they were with her when she took her last breath. I remember once they were being a little rough with her, reclining her chair, and putting her up, and reclining, and when I told them to stop my mother yelled, "NO!" She was laughing SO HARD!!! They loved her so much. We all would laugh when my mother verbally abused us. If we didn't laugh we would have cried.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[Mejane]

An offer to help is one thing. I've had cashiers watch me struggle to put bills back in my wallet, some just silently help, some ask if they can, and others roll their eyes impatiently, tapping their fingers, waiting to get on to the next customer.

 

 

 

I think sometimes we don't know what to do. I've held a door for someone in a chair and had them snap, "I can do it myself!" Otoh, some are very grateful. I teach my kids not to stare but not to look away, never to ask why...?, and always to offer to help but not be offended if the person would rather do it his/herself (even if they're grouchy about it.)

[TheTwinsMom1]

I get this same reaction alot. Sadly, it's hard for those who have things wrong, but they are not visible. My son has a form of autism and acting up in public is a normal thing for him. I can't get over the people who tell me if he was their kid they would beat his butt for acting like that.

 

I also had a severe back injury a few years ago and now need to use the electric carts at stores to get around. I don't know how many employees have looked at me like I am lazy or something.

 

My kids and I have had long talks about people being different and how some people were not taught to be nice and just say whatever comes to their head sometimes.

[kalanamak]

I was always taught it was rude to stare, and I agree. My situation is only temporary so it's easy to deal with. But the poor people who have a disability and are always stared at, can you imagine how they feel?

 

 

This is why I made it a point, when kiddo was littler, to lean over very quietly if I saw him gawking, and pull him aside and discuss, in whispers, what we saw. If I saw someone very different first, I would quietly point him towards the person and then move away. "That child has hydrocephalus. He isn't in any pain, but he cannot walk and that is why he is in that funny reclining wheelchair. He didn't do anything bad to end up that way. Nature just made a mistake. Isn't he lucky to have a Daddy who cares for him and takes him shopping with him?"

 

Now kiddo says to me, very quietly "does she have cerebral palsy" or "is that Down's?" and understands not to stare or talk in front of them.

 

BTW, I had a huge black and white Great Dane for years. I must have heard "What a big dog!" about 10,000 times. It just came out. People stared, people commented. I just got used to it. It is very human to gawk, but, as my mother used to say, a child should be "brought up" above our animal reflexes.

[Impish]

I think sometimes we don't know what to do. I've held a door for someone in a chair and had them snap, "I can do it myself!" Otoh, some are very grateful. I teach my kids not to stare but not to look away, never to ask why...?, and always to offer to help but not be offended if the person would rather do it his/herself (even if they're grouchy about it.)

I understand that. But acting as though I'm causing a nasty disruption in their day is something nobody deserves. I can't begin to describe how humiliating it is to have someone watch me struggle and loudly sigh, tap their fingers and roll their eyes. I don't expect them to help, but to act like I'm a major inconvenience is something else.

[tampamommy]

There is "staring," curiously, for a comfortable period of time, and smiling in a friendly fashion before looking away.

 

This is really called looking at someone, not staring. People watching can be fun. It is not staring. Most of the time, if you are just looking at someone and noticing something about them, it can be done at a glance or two and the "lookee" is oblivious.

 

Then there is staring at a particular individual to the point of rudeness, and not out of curiosity.

 

Plain and simple, adults know the difference. And it is a huge difference. The people being looked or stared at also know the difference. It is the job of adults to teach that difference to children. And it is not that hard to teach. Like everything else, it takes consistency in emphasizing kindness and consideration to others. (If your child doesn't get it, stare at him or her intently until they get uncomfortable. They will if you do it long enough. That uncomfortable feeling is something we all naturally get. Then talk about that experience with them and relate it to others.)

 

It IS important to answer your children's questions about others who may be different so they know best how to be kind to them. There are all sorts of interesting things to look at that are part of people, from tatoos, to funky-colored hair, piercings, wheelchairs that look cool, medical equipment, etc. People themselves come in all shapes and sizes and colors and are inherently fascinating.

 

I've worked with profoundly retarded individuals, nonverbal individuals, the blind community, the deaf community and the elderly in all levels of care. I've met and known individuals who were dwarves and midgets. There is a little girl in our neighborhood who is a dwarf.

 

All human beings are entitled to respect, from other adults as well as children. Most of the people I've known who were significantly "different" in some way willingly answer polite questions about their differences and would rather people ask than gawk. It is a way of educating others.

 

So looking and using those opportunities to educate our children or teach them to engage others in conversation, yes. Staring, no.

[Mejane]

I understand that. But acting as though I'm causing a nasty disruption in their day is something nobody deserves. I can't begin to describe how humiliating it is to have someone watch me struggle and loudly sigh, tap their fingers and roll their eyes. I don't expect them to help, but to act like I'm a major inconvenience is something else.

 

 

Oh no, never that! I hope you don't think I was defending that behavior.

[Denisemomof4]

I understand that. But acting as though I'm causing a nasty disruption in their day is something nobody deserves. I can't begin to describe how humiliating it is to have someone watch me struggle and loudly sigh, tap their fingers and roll their eyes. I don't expect them to help, but to act like I'm a major inconvenience is something else.

 

at first I was surprised to hear of such bad behavior, then I wasn't. :glare: I'm sorry you deal with this. I would have helped. Come shopping by me. ;) Please?:D

 

After my head injury I had a VERY hard time getting my words out. For MONTHS I would have people stare at me, get mad, tap their fingers, or sigh as they waited for me. I *looked* normal so they just expected me to spit it out. I came close to crying many times.

 

Going to the grocery store was a nightmare. I couldn't find ANYTHING. I'd go in with a list of things to get and come out with a HEAPING cart with many things on that list being missed. But when I couldn't find things I'd have to ask where an item was. It was excruciating because not only was word recall a horrendous thing, but I'd often mix up my words! So when I was asking where the milk was, as an example, I knew in my head I wanted to know where the milk was but I'd ask where the batteries were. And since I had been treated with such impatience, I wouldn't bother them anymore so we just went without. Other times I would say, "I've had a head injury so please be patient with me," and then try to get my sentence out. This usually worked. BUT, really, nobody should ever have to be in a position to feel like they have to do that!

 

I remember someone walking up to me in the grocery store and asking, "Do you have a head injury?" It was a head injury sufferer who immediately identified with me. It was VERY comforting.

[JoyfulMama]

Well, I've always taught my ds that if he has a question about someone, staring is rude, but starting a friendly conversation and asking a polite question is ok. If he does happen to stare at someone for a minute (out of curiosity -- usually trying to figure out the mechanics of their motorized scooters -- LOL!) and the person notices, he should just smile and say hi, and just be his usual friendly self. I hope that's the right thing to do.

 

I think the line is crossed when the question isn't polite, as was stated above. I don't want to intrude on anyone, however my children are curious as to other people. I try not to talk about people in front of (or behind) them, however will comment to my inqisitive children on "cool wheels" or briefly what a device is for (wheeled walker with a seat lets someone sit down and take a rest when they need it).

 

I remember being in Target a few months ago, and seeing a short-statured cashier. I wasn't trying to make a spectacle of this woman, however it was the first short-statured person any of my children have ever seen, and it is important as my youngest is also short-statured. She noticed us, and I smiled. My youngest waved. I like to think we were not gawking, as my youngest was noticing that the woman used a stool, as she does at home. Yet at the same time I realized, again, how this physical difference of a person often invariably ends up putting them on display.

 

I want my children to realize that all people are not created the same, and that these differences do not limit who we are as people. However differences can alter how tasks are performed or how people communicate, and we need to be open to those differences.

[TravelingChris]

I have been disabled for a long time. Currently I have a broken leg and with my arthritis, it doesn't make getting around all that easy. I was traveling back on airplanes and through airports. I have only had one bad experience personally with a rude person with my disease and one very bad experience when my mother was dying. My experience was when I did have a handicapped placard (I have improved with better medication and normally don't need one anymore). A fellow homeschool mother started criticizing me for parking in a handicapped space at a university where we were attending a performance. She berated me for having no problems. Well, my disabilities aren't visible without x-rays or breathing tests. At that point, I had less than 60% lung capacity and my arthritis wasn't well controlled and it did affect my feet a lot. The only way I could take my children to these performances was if I didn't have to walk an additional 1/4 mile to the regular parking lot. As it was, just to the handicapped slot was quite a distance. I told her that not all disabilities are visible and left. I kept away from her after that.

 

My incident with my mother was much worse. She was living in an apartment community and the management had put a handicapped parking space near her apartment so she wouldn't have to manage the steps (she was in a wheelchair and dying from ALS). SOme nasty lowlife came out and accused me of using the parking space illegally when I had just brought my mom home from a doctor's appointment and was going to get the mail. I kept my temper and ignored them. The woman was just very upset that one parking space less was available and that she might have to walk further.

[mommaduck]

Honestly, it's not just a matter of manners, it's about how they are possibly raising children to view people that are "different". Twice now, when in Walmart, we've run into people that have prosthetics and my children seem to never notice that they are any different than others. Granted, I used to alter clothes for people with various conditions, but only when the older children were young. The younger children did not have this experience. I really do think that we say more with how we treat people, whether it's staring, making comments, etc vs chatting it up with that person, holding the door open, etc. One family recently had an older child that was severely autistic, but they took him with them to enjoy the outdoors while his siblings were in the swimhole with us. His mother kept apologising for his blocking the path. It's okay, I have autistic relatives, I understand and there is nothing wrong with my having to go around and not disturbing his current happy place. And I told her she does NOT need to apologise, it's good that he's out enjoying being with everyone. Good grief, do people still make others feel like they should be hiding or apologising for not hiding their children away? I know she was being polite, but I felt that they may have had negative run ins in the past. That just ticks me off that people can be so cruel.

Edited August 19, 2010 by mommaduck

[tiffijo1]

Thanks for speaking your mind, it really opened my eyes.

[Catwoman]

I understand that. But acting as though I'm causing a nasty disruption in their day is something nobody deserves. I can't begin to describe how humiliating it is to have someone watch me struggle and loudly sigh, tap their fingers and roll their eyes. I don't expect them to help, but to act like I'm a major inconvenience is something else.

 

FWIW, those same cashiers probably loudly sigh, tap their fingers, and roll their eyes every time any customer "delays" them; they're probably not just doing it to you. I've had the same thing happen when I've dug into my handbag for exact change. :glare:

 

Some people are just rude and inconsiderate -- and that behavior is often quite universal, and not restricted to any particular group of individuals.

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

I think sometimes we don't know what to do. I've held a door for someone in a chair and had them snap, "I can do it myself!"

 

I have had the same thing happen, and one woman was so rude about it, sayin she didn't need any special treatment. Fortunately, it worked out ok because my ds made an innocent comment about how we hold doors open for everyone because it's good manners, and the woman immediately apologized and said she was just having a lousy day and didn't mean to take it out on us.

 

Generally, I don't offer help unless I'm sure someone needs it, like if they're in a wheelchair or on a scooter and accidentally drop something on the floor in the store. I don't make a big deal out of it; I just pick it up and hand it to them, as I would for anyone else if I saw them drop something and they had their hands full (or whatever.) If someone asked me for help -- like getting money out of a wallet -- I would certainly assist them, but I don't think it would dawn on me to be so presumptuous to assume that they needed (or wanted) my help unless they asked.

 

I think good manners are good manners, whomever you're dealing with, and that's what I have always tried to model for my ds.

 

Cat

[nrg]

THis thread has me tearing up. I miss my mother so much! She had polio and was left almost quadriplegic several years before I was born. I learned to push her wheelchair and get it in and out of the car when I was very young. She learned to drive with the new "hand controls" invented by a local engineer when I was 9. Handicapped parking spaces came into being soon thereafter, but accessibility laws were yet to come.

 

My mom was gawked at, insulted, questioned, criticized. We heard about how she should not be a parent if she couldn't "control" her children, how I (and my brothers) should never cross our poor defenseless mother (we had normal happy family relationships), how slow we were, etc. I was screamed at in parking lots for taking handicapped space until they saw the wheelchair, and I was laughed at by school mates for having a weird family.

 

My mother treated all of these folks with graciousness and aplomb. She answered politely or forcefully depending on need. She always answered children's questions and did not discourage them. She knew this treatment wasn't right, but accepted it as part of the deal. She always taught me that you cannot control what others will do, but you can control yourself.

 

People are ignorant of things outside their purview and choose to approach the unknown differently. Everyone has a backstory. I do miss my wonderful, strong mother...

 

I can only try to be as wise.

[Catwoman]

My mother treated all of these folks with graciousness and aplomb. She answered politely or forcefully depending on need. She always answered children's questions and did not discourage them. She knew this treatment wasn't right, but accepted it as part of the deal. She always taught me that you cannot control what others will do, but you can control yourself.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

It sounds like your mother was a wonderful woman, nrg!

 

Cat

[Katie.Louise]

And then I come here and read Specialmama's post. :(

 

Most of you know that my youngest is adopted from China. If I hear one more person make a rude comment, IN HER PRESENCE, about all the stuff "made in China" or how it's unhealthy because it was "made in China," etc., I just might have to do this: :boxing_smiley:

 

 

 

I totally agree with you on the staring thing, or asking rude questions. Manners these days are terrible.

 

But the comment above quoted above seems extreme to me. I try to avoid buying things from China because that doesn't support american jobs. I want to support each other here, keep Americans working.

 

Some things made in China have had poisonous chemicals in them, so they, some manufacturers, do have a bit of a track record for this. But this has nothing at all to do with your daughter. I don't think you should be offended by comments like this. China is such a broad topic, you surely can't take offense to a comment that is made about the country as a whole, just because your daughter was born in that country.

 

Please don't be offended by my comments, I just wanted to throw out my thoughts.:001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

It sounds like your mother was a wonderful woman, nrg!

 

Cat

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: and you are a wonderful daughter!!!:grouphug::grouphug:

[carolinagirl]

I agree about the gawking but...

 

...people really gawked over you in a wheelchair with obvious injury (cast/crutches)???

 

You'd think they'd see you and think 'oh, she hurt her leg' and press on with their scanning/crowd watching LOL!

[Denisemomof4]

I totally agree with you on the staring thing, or asking rude questions. Manners these days are terrible.

 

But the comment above quoted above seems extreme to me. I try to avoid buying things from China because that doesn't support american jobs. I want to support each other here, keep Americans working.

 

Some things made in China have had poisonous chemicals in them, so they, some manufacturers, do have a bit of a track record for this. But this has nothing at all to do with your daughter. I don't think you should be offended by comments like this. China is such a broad topic, you surely can't take offense to a comment that is made about the country as a whole, just because your daughter was born in that country.

 

Please don't be offended by my comments, I just wanted to throw out my thoughts.:001_smile:

 

I couldn't agree with you more. *I* avoid things from China. My point is that people rant about China in a negative tone, right in front of my Chinese daughter. What she hears is China is bad. I'm Chinese so therefore I am bad. We've also been subjected to derogative comments about adoption in her presence. :confused: Honestly, talking negative about China in the presence of a Chinese person just isn't appropriate. KWIM?

[Denisemomof4]

I agree about the gawking but...

 

...people really gawked over you in a wheelchair with obvious injury (cast/crutches)???

 

You'd think they'd see you and think 'oh, she hurt her leg' and press on with their scanning/crowd watching LOL!

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I had NO idea injured people were subjected to this!

 

I'm going to be pushed around the Smithsonian in a few days. Touring DC. In a wheelchair. At least I'm prepared now. ;)

[Only me]

We just returned from Disney and had the same reaction with people. My 15 year old daughter has been having knee problems for months. She has both knees taped and there is a good possibility that she will need surgery early next year. If she walks for too long her knees get swollen and very painful. We went to Universal the first day and by the time we got into the actual park (a lot of walking) dd was in pain and her knees were swollen. It was only 9:00 am so we had a long day ahead of us. We ended up renting a wheelchair and she couldn't have managed without it.

 

Everywhere we went we had people staring at dd. I'm sure it was combination of people wondering what she had done to her knees since they were both taped and looked like bandages. Several of the CMs asked if she had fallen. Other people were probably wondering why we were pushing her around in a wheel chair. So many people stared at dd. At first it made her uncomfortable but then she just got used it it.

 

We were also shocked by the rude behavior of people cutting us off, running right in front of the wheel chair, etc. One time we were trying to find a place to eat for lunch. We were trying to find a good table so that the wheelchair wouldn't be in the way. It was difficult to make our way through the tables. We found a table and were only a few feet away. One lady who was already sitting at another table made eye contact with me and knew that I was headed toward that table got up and moved to the table that I was going to. We had 8 people so we just couldn't take her table since it wasn't big enough. I have no idea why she moved but other people around us even saw it and were shocked. Fortunately one very nice group of people who only had 3 people at their table moved so that we could join their table with the other table that the lady had just left. They went and sat at a smaller table for us.

 

I didn't expect any special treatment since dd was in a wheelchair but just common courtesy. I feel bad for people who have to deal with this every day-not only the staring but the rude behavior.

[FO4UR]

I understand that. But acting as though I'm causing a nasty disruption in their day is something nobody deserves. I can't begin to describe how humiliating it is to have someone watch me struggle and loudly sigh, tap their fingers and roll their eyes. I don't expect them to help, but to act like I'm a major inconvenience is something else.

 

FWIW, those same cashiers probably loudly sigh, tap their fingers, and roll their eyes every time any customer "delays" them; they're probably not just doing it to you. I've had the same thing happen when I've dug into my handbag for exact change. :glare:

 

Some people are just rude and inconsiderate -- and that behavior is often quite universal, and not restricted to any particular group of individuals.

 

Cat

 

:iagree: I've had the same experience, only I was being an inconvenience b/c I was juggling 3 dc under 4yo and dared to grocery shop.

 

Really, people can just be mean and rude! And....ya' know...these masses of folks who think it's OK to stare and gawk and pester people with personal questions were *socialized* by our ps system!!!!:001_huh::tongue_smilie:

[rlowetx]

Okay, I'm going to give another perspective.

My brother is a quadripeligic...I have to say we don't notice that many stares.. some from young children who have not been exposed... but "don't stare" statements I think can make it worse.. it's like you are not supposed to notice someone has a disability. We do need people to move for us at restaurants, we do take up more space walking by.. and frankly, it's been a great opportunity for those who aren't familiar with disabilities to see that it can be normal. My young son, who is obviously very familiar with disabilities, walked up to a man who had a mechanical leg and asked him "what happened".. I was mortified.. like, my son should know better.. you know what.. the guy smiled and said.. "thank you for asking and not just staring and walking by.. I lost it in the war..." Now, it goes both ways.. I tried to help a man at a buffet carry his plate and he took it as a personal affront.. whatever.. some people are sensitive, some people aren't (my brother stopped being sensitive ALOOOOOONG time ago..). Since I can't figure out who is who, I just try to do the best I can. My brother doesn't mind the stares since he's always on the prowl for some hot girl to help him (yep, he SOOOO takes advantage of his wheelchair).. he smiles and winks at everyone and people start realizing, its just not a big deal..Now we have had true discrimination, like BOA not letting him take money out of his account because he couldn't sign his name.. but that is a different topic.

Regarding the chinese comment, my son is raised with the understanding that Americans come from all walks of life, the same way I was.. I have no idea if a person is from a different country based on their skin tone, face shape, or accent (unless you are American Indian, we are all from different countries)... I would never assume your child was Chinese and not American...Everyone of my American friends look different and we never assume anything different...maybe your friends didn't mean to exclude conversations because you wanted them to think she was Chinese and not American.. just another angle to think about.

Edited August 19, 2010 by rlowetx