Why is the Home School Designation so Important to Many?

[Cindyz]

My son is 5.5 and we will soon begin full time home school with him. We have been home schooling along with preschool for a couple of years now. We have always planned to home school but we became involved with early intervention through the school district when he was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder and most likely asperger's. We have had a good experience with both school districts that we have been involved with since he turned 3.

 

Anyhoo, I recently learned of a program through our school district which offers elective resource classes through the public school system. These are classes such as art, social studies, math games, music classes, physical education, along with generalized reading, writing and math in a blended age classroom setting. He would spend two full mornings per week at the resource classes and an hour and a half a third day for the PE class.

 

It has been continually stressed to us that by joining this program we will no longer be considered home schoolers. We will be considered full time with the public schools once you hit 6 hours a week. I figure this is for funding reasons on their part and it doesn't really bother me because obviously I know we are still home schooling since I am providing the core curriculum and instruction at home. I've read on various forums that many decided not to utilize this program because they don't want to lose their home school status, and I am not understanding why this upsets so many. I'm not being snarky, I'm actually wondering if there is some sort of negative about it that I'm not yet understanding. I thought about it again due to the thread in the k-8 forum going on about "do you get paid to home school" where so many would choose not to take extra $$ from the state for curriculum and activities if it means they will lose their official home school status and I can't see what the difference is since you are still choosing the curriculum and teaching it how you choose. I keep thinking there must be something that I don't know about or am missing.

 

Also, why are so many against their child taking the standardized tests? We're a few years off from that, but what are the negatives of having them take the tests?

 

Thanks so much for reading!

Edited May 20, 2010 by Cindyz

[Purpledaizy]

We are in a similar program for exactly the same issues :)

 

:bigear::lurk5:

[Wheres Toto]

I know in other threads/forums I've seen people who were concerned that it was going to lead to increased oversight by the state government/public school system, possibly leading to homeschoolers not being allowed to chose their own curriculum, etc.

 

Others don't want to have to "teach to the test" although I don't know if that's much of a concern with a minimum basic skills test.

 

I don't have any of these concerns but I also don't have any of the options for using public school services. If I could access the stuff I'm lousy at - Art and PE - I'd probably do it.

 

Just wait until you go to a homeschooling board and see the debates on who should be allowed to call THEMSELVES homeschoolers. :tongue_smilie:

[Pretty in Pink]

The short answer is that to be part of the public school system you must concede some autonomy. I don't want to do that. I will gladly reject any incentives that require a measure of accountability to the public school system.

[Cindyz]

Just wait until you go to a homeschooling board and see the debates on who should be allowed to call THEMSELVES homeschoolers. :tongue_smilie:

 

This is one thing I'm worried about as well. I've heard that some were not allowed to join certain home school groups if they were part of these programs involving the public school system and it makes me wonder if I tell someone we're using this program if we will be shunned and then I'm wondering...but why?? In my mind, I'm fully in control of my child's education and this is just an avenue for us for further enrichment.

 

Thanks for the replies!

[silliness7]

I've not heard that term...homeschool status.

 

I have heard people recommend staying away from partnering with the public school in order to retain 100% homeschool freedom. It makes sense that if the tax payer/gov't is funding a person's education that they will want some proof or way to measure that their money is being well spent. There are those who are eager to bring ALL homeschoolers to stricter accountability. The easiest place to start is with those who are already in the system. There are those who are eager to stay as far away from the system as possible.

[Purpledaizy]

The short answer is that to be part of the public school system you must concede some autonomy. I don't want to do that. I will gladly reject any incentives that require a measure of accountability to the public school system.

 

by concede autonomy do you mean that in a literal or figurative sense. we are still in a ps like the original poster, but still get to choose our curriculum, how we educate and etc.. I think the hsers in most areas are required to show in some way that they are providing their children with an education. Is that different in other areas? As you can see, I am very new to this.

[silliness7]

I think the hsers in most areas are required to show in some way that they are providing their children with an education. Is that different in other areas?

 

Here in Michigan we don't have to show anybody anything. I like it that way. :D

[Haiku]

The "homeschool" designation is important to me because I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder, telling me what to do and how to teach my children.

 

I don't want my kids standardized tested because I don't believe that standardized tests effectively measure what they are supposed to measure. I used to have a job where part of what I did was developing standardized tests, so I know how they are developed and why certain things are/are not included and why certain things are worded in certain ways.

 

I also don't want my kids to think that the sum of the education can be reduced to a test score.

 

All that said, if you think that this program will benefit your son and your family, then by all means utilize it, and don't worry about what anyone else says.

 

Tara

Edited May 20, 2010 by TaraTheLiberator
typo

[Wheres Toto]

I have absolutely no accountability right now to the school system - don't even have to tell them I'm homeschooling. Other states require testing, portfolios, teacher reviews, etc. So, the laws are really, really varied.

 

I would personally have no problem with accountability because I don't think it would be a problem to live up to the standards set by the school district (they tend to be pretty low). I also have one child who has always gone to public school and have not had a bad experience with it. I'm homeschooling my younger children because of their learning styles and strengths/weaknesses and not because of a perceived deficiency in the schools (other than in how the schools would handle them personally). I'm also using secular materials so have no religious reasons for wanting them out of the public schools.

 

I will say I'm lazy enough to appreciate not having to worry about portfolios or scheduling tests (not to say that others who don't want to do these are lazy - that's just my motivation for appreciating the laws of NJ :D).

 

I do think that anyone who is handling the majority of their kids schooling and has to look for alternate socializing opportunities for them, should be accepted in homeschooling groups since that's what a lot of them are all about (at least around here).

[babysparkler]

The "homeschool" designation is important to me because I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder, telling me what to do and how to teach my children.

 

I don't want my kids standardized tested because I don't believe that standardized tests effectively measure what they are supposed to measure. I used to have a job where part of what I did was developing standardized tests, so I know how they are developed and why certain things are/are not included and why certain things are worded in certain ways.

 

I also don't want my kids to think that the sum of the education can be reduced to a test score.

 

 

 

:iagree: In Texas I have no papers to file, no required testing, no reports to give, no one at all to be held accountable to (except the Lord, of course)... and I like it that way.

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

We tried the K12 free State program 2 years ago. All the curriculum is free, but they assign you a teacher. I was pregnant that year and was told I was not allowed to take off 3 weeks for the baby at the end of April. I quit then and there. That is why I would not take the money or the free curriculum. I don't want anyone telling me when I can take my vacation days. I also was really bugged that the "teacher" who called once a month would remind me that I was just a "coach" and I should back off and let her teach her way. This happened after she took off points on a test for my son pronouncing the (thee) instead of the (thuh.)

 

 

[Mama Anna]

Also, why are so many against their child taking the standardized tests? We're a few years off from that, but what are the negatives of having them take the tests?

 

I'm glad that dd6 doesn't have to worry about standardized tests because I know perfectly well that any perceived failure on her part would majorly freak her out. She's such a perfectionist. My hope is that as we work through her fear of failure, I can get her ready to take such a thing in a few years, just in order to be prepared if we move to another state and testing is required.

 

Personally, I think that testing a child under third or fourth grade is somewhat pointless and often unproductive due to the stress involved. As dd's teacher, it's easy for me to ascertain what she knows and doesn't know. I like that much better!

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

Mama Anna

[Blessedfamily]

There was a recent thread on a similar topic. I never realized how polarizing the issue of "pure' homeschooling (for lack of a better term, no snark intended) verus people who use the schools PS, but school at home. The thread is here. It was about online schooling, but I think you'll see some of your questions addressed.

[Momling]

My kids go to a public "homeschool support" school and we love it. I don't mind giving up a little autonomy. It's a nice community of folks and I like the balance and choices that we have and I wouldn't change a thing.

[LuvToRead]

For us, there are no real benefits to standardized tests. It's just one more thing to pay for and add to the "to do" list. I'm in a non-reporting state, so standardized testing isn't something I have to do. Maybe as my children get older, I will change my mind, but for right now, they would serve no real purpose.

[5LittleMonkeys]

In my mind, I'm fully in control of my child's education and this is just an avenue for us for further enrichment.

But this isn't true. The ps will be in control of what they teach him while he is attending the ps. For example, what happens if the math you are teaching him is not conducive to the way they want him to learn math?

 

When my dd was in K in ps I was trying to show her other ways of adding so she wouldn't have to use her fingers and the teacher sent home a note telling me to stop what I was doing because it wasn't the way the ps did it. I sent back a note explaining that it was a skill I felt would benefit her and received an e-mail from the principal stating that as long as my daughter was enrolled in xyz school she would learn math according to their program and what I was doing was detrimental and could I please not interfere and let them do their job. I think this is a scenario a lot of homeschoolers are afraid might happen if they try to keep a foot on both sides of the fence.

 

I'm not saying this will happen in your situation and as someone else said if you feel this is the best option for your son then go for it. But if your son is in the ps classroom then he will be subject to their rules, regulations, what they teach, how they teach and when. He will be subject to their standards of whether or not he is below average, average or above average. He will be subject to their tests which may or may not be an accurate determiner of his abilities or intelligence. I'm not trying to scare you or spread doom and gloom. I just think that it is important, that if this is the path you take, you need to accept and be honest about the fact that you will not be fully in control of what goes on in the ps in regard to your son. Unless by "fully in control" you mean being able to pull him out if it doesn't work out.

 

I am not trying to talk you out of your decision; only you know what is best for your family and what is good for me and mine is not best for everyone. I'm just trying to show you the point of view from the side of someone who enjoys being truly 100% in control of their child's education.

 

I also wanted to say that in my opinion if you are ostracized from a group because of a decision you made that you feel is the best for your child then you probably don't want to be a part of that group anyway. :D

[hsmom27]

Where we are, once a full-time student hits mandatory attendance age, they are subject to attendance requirements. They don't tell anyone here that until their DC hit the magic 6th birthday. That alone is a deal breaker for us.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I know in other threads/forums I've seen people who were concerned that it was going to lead to increased oversight by the state government/public school system, possibly leading to homeschoolers not being allowed to chose their own curriculum, etc.

 

:iagree:

The short answer is that to be part of the public school system you must concede some autonomy. I don't want to do that. I will gladly reject any incentives that require a measure of accountability to the public school system.

:iagree:

The "homeschool" designation is important to me because I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder, telling me what to do and how to teach my children.

 

:iagree:

[Cindyz]

Thanks for all the replies. I don't mind the views from all sides. I really honestly want to think of all of the positives and negatives and it gives me ideas of what to keep a look out for as well.

 

We do have to submit an at home learning plan where we go over what we will be teaching at home and the methods that we will use to meet our goals. I guess it doesn't bother me to show someone else what we are doing. As far as I can tell, they don't have say over what I show them, I just have to show them something so they know we have a plan and aren't relying on them to provide a curriculum. I actually saw it as a benefit for me because I like talking to people about what we're doing and getting feedback about it. As long as I'm able to take in and deal with the feedback in my own way, I'm fine with that. If I started getting notes home like some have mentioned telling me what and how to teach, I would definitely have to draw the line!

 

The link to the previous thread was very helpful too. I'm still reading through it.

 

There's always so much to think about!!

 

At least I'm just about done with the curriculum planning for the next year. That was a hurdle in itself (but so much fun)!

[kalanamak]

 

Personally, I think that testing a child under third or fourth grade is somewhat pointless and often unproductive due to the stress involved.

 

I started early to make it "just another thing" in the school year. Some day kiddo will meet a standardized test that can limit or open up his choices. I don't want that one to be his first big one. It has been a little nerve racking for me, but we are getting better and better, and kiddo actually enjoyed it this year.

 

I was a bad tester. I was so nervous about it I never took the SAT or the ACT. That really limits where you go to school. Finally, when I was 24, I screwed up my courage, studied and took the GRE. Now I'm fine with them. But I DO test because it can be stressful, etc. I hope when the SAT comes around, my kid will not be in panic mode.

[Orthodox6]

Probably as many reasons as there are people to respond !

 

Off the bat, I would throw out that the "cultural divide" between homeschoolers and what/who homeschoolers perceive public school education to be is a nearly unbridgeable chasm. (as well as the perceptual gap coming from the other direction) Many homeschoolers would consider a classification of "part-time homeschooler" (to create an example) virtually an obscene label. [ :confused: ! ]

 

There also are legal (or quasi-legal?) repercussions of having any kind of tie to government schools. In general, if such tie exists, the education topples into the category of non-homeschool education. At times, this resembles the ridiculous "definitions" common to questions of race or ethnicity. If a human being possesses some miniscule blood quantity of whatever be the "minority group" within a dominant culture, that individual is classified in "minority status". . . . Returning to practical repercussions, however, any involvement by "The State" confers (on the State) authority to interfere and to regulate the home educator. The feistier among us militantly resent (and resist) any such attempts.

 

As for annual, bi-annual, quadrennial, or whatever schedule of standardized testing, I would not have a problem with that. Living in Texas, I see (and read about) far too many parents who abuse their freedom, and who exercise neglect even to the point of "educational abuse" of their children. Wouldn't hurt these people to have an occasional reality check. At any rate, tests are not "evil". They are passive instruments, the results of which sometimes even are -- gasp ! -- useful. I would describe my feelings about mandatory testing as "mixed" feelings. Not something to make my pot boil over.

 

If Zenz has found a program helpful for her special needs son, and does not think that she can homeschool him effectively, I hope she will make the most of it. Homeschooling might turn out to be what is best for the boy; outside school might turn out to be what is best for him. Very likely that the family will need to try both, would be my personal suggestion.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Orthodox6

[Ellie]

Partly, it's a legal issue.

 

It doesn't matter that you are doing "core curriculum" at home. It is the number of hours your dc spends at the public school. The public school will receive ADA monies; your ds will be required to follow public school requirements. You will not have to comply with the homeschool laws in your state because your dc is *legally* a public school student.

 

Most people teach their dc at home so they have the freedom to teach their dc what they think is best for them. They can only do that as homeschoolers. Enrolling their dc in public school programs does provide extras, but the dc are legally public school students, not homeschool students. The public schools know this; it isn't just that homeschoolers are trying to keep a specific designation.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

When we lived in Hawaii, there was a charter school that started as an e-learning school and then expanded into offering various teacher supported home based learning options. The home school tae kwon do class that my kids attended had a couple students from this program and I got to be friends with the moms.

 

For the purpose of fellowship, I considered them fellow homeschoolers. We shared tips about teaching our kids, favorite field trip destinations, special event opportunities and book recommendations. However, they were not free to pick any books they wanted or that they felt suited their kids. They were required to attend a certain number of days a month at the school for classes, evaluations and assistance (even if it wasn't helpful). One year, the school year was almost starting and the list of "approved" curriculum choices still wasn't out. And the parents that I knew often had to deal with the problem of needing to order curriculum in order to have it to use, without knowing if it was going to be approved by the school or not.

 

Yes, there was funding from the school. It paid for a lot of curriculum as well as outside classes (like music, dance and the tae kwon do). But it also seemed like there were a lot of strings for these parents. They were putting in a lot of hard work teaching their kids, but still had the administrative burden and bureaucratic run around of dealing with the school system (often without the support that they'd been led to expect).

 

Now for some of these families, it was the only financial way of teaching their kids at home. Or it provided the oversight safety net that one parent felt was necessary. And the local schools were so bad and most private schools so expensive that I hesitate to tell a family that they were making a bad choice (I wasn't sure they were). But it was still a pact with the devil in some ways (not a theological comment, just that the school pretty much had them over a barrel).

 

Where many homeschoolers grow concerned is that this style of home based public schooling will become the accepted notion of what homeschooling is (approved curriculum lists, mandatory testing, mandatory portfolios and teacher interviews included). I do want to maintain my option of saying, "No thanks. We don't want what you're offering."

 

FWIW, During our first few years of homeschooling we took part in a homeschooling allowance program through dh's employer. It took 2.5 years and an assessment of giftedness in order to have them approve books that we were using because they were deemed above grade level (even though the kids were in fact reading them). Even after the three day assessment by an educational psychologist, they still disapproved anything that they thought was too religious (from a Martin Luther biography - we were living in Germany and studying the period of the reformation and renaissance, to a puzzle with a Noah's Ark theme, to cds of Jewish holiday stories - we're not Jewish, to VP's Egypt and Greece/Rome sets - which also contain Old and New Testement) [btw, David MacCauley's book Mosque was approved]. So I have a healthy skepticism for the ability of the powers that be who control the money being willing and able to not interfere with curriculum choices.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What I've seen in practice is that when that proverbial line in the sand moment comes, many families don't feel like they really can afford to walk away from the financial carrot of the program that they are in.

 

When we had a program telling us that this or that wasn't reimbursable, it was difficult to just shrug and say, "So what, that is what we want and what is best for the kids." Just the fact that one thing would be approved and another would not put a subtle pressure on us to pick one over the other (and for us, money wasn't even a factor).

 

If finding money for books and materials (or supplementary lessons like music and sports) had been a more difficult problem, I don't know if we would have been able to just choose what we felt was best, knowing that it was probably coming out of pocket. I think that it's easy to say that you'll walk away when the moment comes but harder to actually do so (especially if you feel like the money isn't really there or that you'll have to cut out something that has been a nice to have but that you don't feel you can afford).

[Happy2BaMom]

...in my state (WA), I am legally a homeschooler AND I participate in a public school program (my son attends 1.5 days a week of enrichment classes). He is not/will not be required to take standardized testing, we entirely select our own curriculum (religious or not), and have we minimal reporting requirements (I fill out a form once a month documenting our hours).

 

The two coordinators of the program are both homeschooling mothers who also happen to have teaching backgrounds/are licensed teachers. They are extremely support-oriented. I think this part is key...are the people who will oversee you supportive of hsing in general? If not, it will be much more difficult. Monitor that.

 

I love our program, as does my son. It's the only way I could have hsed this year. I love the support, and yes, the $500 more a year per child helps to buy more books without guilt.

 

I understand how - to those who fought long and hard for the right to hs - they might get raised hackles at the thought of anyone driving past a PS and thinking of going in. But I really don't think there is a risk of all of us waking up one morning to find all the laws in each state have been magically changed.

 

For example, in the state of WA, it takes 14 steps for a bill to become law (at least 10 years ago it was 14 steps...it may be +/- 1 or 2 now). I used to work in state politics (aide/secretary), and at any one of the 14 steps, a bill can easily be derailed through protest...it really doesn't take much to make a legislator run scared. We used to get calls from hysterical constituents all the time "why don't you just pass a law to do such-and-such" or "such-and-such bill was just introduced; if it passes I'm arming myself and my family and locking the doors" etc. etc. Not one of these people understood how difficult it is to pass a new state law, let along attempt to change an old one. Hsers often don't either.

 

The point is that you need to do what is right for your family, and don't let others' fear of the boogeyman (sp?) make you feel guilty or afraid. If it doesn't work, you can quit.

[Just Robyn]

Here in Iowa I find being a part of the HSAP actually less invasive than being totally independent. The choices here are to either have a portfolio reviewed, submit to testing, or be part of the HSAP. Well, as part of the HSAP my dc just go to classes for 4 hours/week. Those classes are art, music, gym, topic-of-the-month (this month is crayfish), as well as recess, lunch, and the library. So, if I choose to go independent the state will either see my dc's test scores or their curriculum and work. If they take some fun classes once/week they know nothing. They have never asked what curriculum we are using or anything at all about how we homeschool. Though I know they have heard my dc read on occasion (one teacher mentioned she heard my ds 6 reading the titles of books while they were in the library), there is no way they are able to assess anything else in any of those classes. Additionally, my kids enjoy the classes and the other children and I have met some great moms from being a part of the HSAP. I think I would have a hard time meeting anyone if I weren't part of it because there are no co-ops here.

 

ETA: I mean there are no co-ops here in my city. I suppose there is a co-op somewhere in Iowa.

Edited May 21, 2010 by crstarlette

[hornblower]

I guess I'd flip your question back at you - why do YOU want to continue to be called a homeschooler when a significant portion of your child's education is designed & delivered by a school?

 

I'm in a hands-off province. I don't report to anybody. I don't need to cover electricity, or Natives, or plant science in Grade such and such if I don't want to or it doesn't line up with my educational goals for my children. I don't need to submit to any testing. I can follow the WTM or any other curriculum or unschool or a mix ---- it's all up to me. I can wait till my child is ready to tackle various skills or subjects or I can accelerate them. In fact, I can do both at the same time - I can have a child working at various subjects at completely different grade levels. I can, in fact, ignore grade levels completely. To me, that freedom is homeschooling.

 

All the other things are 'school at home'. They can be wonderful, great, marvellous things for many families. They're just not homeschooling. I call them alternative schooling & I'm absolutely 100% in favour of expanding all the alternatives, mini-schools, etc. But I want traditional homeschooling in my province to stay 'pure' and hands-off.

 

My other comment is harder to explain concisely but it boils down to this: sometimes, people lose the ability to see learning as anything much different than what schools deliver. So homeschooling becomes like school except delivered by a parent in a house. To me the true brilliance of homeschooling is that we can look quite a bit beyond those narrow parameters & see a much broader range of what constitutes learning, as well as what constitutes assessment. BTW, this doesn't mean that people who 'school at home' have necessarily a narrow view point - it might be just that this particular approach suits their family best - but there is a way of looking at learning which I find is largely absent in people who are heavily involved in umbrella programs. Sooner or later, their mental outlook is poisoned with "learning outcomes", grade expectations, testing, Gr such and such 'should be able to...' . I think many people in these programs lose the whole point of looking at learning as a much more holistic endeavour.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I guess I'd flip your question back at you - why do YOU want to continue to be called a homeschooler when a significant portion of your child's education is designed & delivered by a school?

 

I'm in a hands-off province. I don't report to anybody. I don't need to cover electricity, or Natives, or plant science in Grade such and such if I don't want to or it doesn't line up with my educational goals for my children. I don't need to submit to any testing. I can follow the WTM or any other curriculum or unschool or a mix ---- it's all up to me. I can wait till my child is ready to tackle various skills or subjects or I can accelerate them. In fact, I can do both at the same time - I can have a child working at various subjects at completely different grade levels. I can, in fact, ignore grade levels completely. To me, that freedom is homeschooling.

 

All the other things are 'school at home'. They can be wonderful, great, marvellous things for many families. They're just not homeschooling. I call them alternative schooling & I'm absolutely 100% in favour of expanding all the alternatives, mini-schools, etc. But I want traditional homeschooling in my province to stay 'pure' and hands-off.

 

My other comment is harder to explain concisely but it boils down to this: sometimes, people lose the ability to see learning as anything much different than what schools deliver. So homeschooling becomes like school except delivered by a parent in a house. To me the true brilliance of homeschooling is that we can look quite a bit beyond those narrow parameters & see a much broader range of what constitutes learning, as well as what constitutes assessment. BTW, this doesn't mean that people who 'school at home' have necessarily a narrow view point - it might be just that this particular approach suits their family best - but there is a way of looking at learning which I find is largely absent in people who are heavily involved in umbrella programs. Sooner or later, their mental outlook is poisoned with "learning outcomes", grade expectations, testing, Gr such and such 'should be able to...' . I think many people in these programs lose the whole point of looking at learning as a much more holistic endeavour.

 

Very well said. Consider yourself given a green square (good rep).

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't want my homeschooling program to depend on the graciousness of other people. People change positions, budget pressures cause districts to look more closely at what result they are getting for special programs, court decisions affect what curriculum is acceptable in a public program, etc.

 

I spent our first three years trying to get a homeschooling allowance program to work for us. I had to submit 30+ pages each semester, only to have an administrator in another city, who never laid eyes on my children tell me that what we were using wasn't considered grade appropriate. To have her ignore the fact that I could see what they were reading and doing in math (and that I have a master's in education) and tell us that a 1st grader should just be given more 1st grade books, even if he was able to read on the 3rd grade level.

 

It is lovely that your program is helpful and is enabling your family to meet your kids' educational needs. And you are right about the lengthy process that legislation requires (thank God). But it is also easy for an administrator to simply decide that the rules really don't allow this or do require that. Often the specifics of execution aren't spelled in the law or are dependent on interpretation or the management of a specific program.

[Orthodox6]

Mental fodder for the morning. . .

 

In a public or private school, set curricula are taught to the students.

 

In many homeschools, set curricula are taught to the students -- I refer to families which use exclusively a "canned curriculum", such as BJUP, Calvert, ABeka, Seton, Christian Liberty, and many other programs.

 

A snide observer, with sound logical jump, could assert that these homeschooling families "are not homeschoolers." Why ? Because they do not avoid "learning outcomes", "grades", "tests" and so forth. Because they do not, perhaps, have the time (or inclination) to include more creative, loose-format educational opportunities and activities. Because, visually, organizationally, and content-wise, there is no difference between "homeschool" and "outside school" other than the location and number of students. Religion is not even the "deal-breaker", as parochial and religious-based private schools often use one of these same "canned curricula".

 

Beware the overly-rigid definition of homeschooling !

Edited May 21, 2010 by Orthodox6

[hornblower]

Very well said. Consider yourself given a green square (good rep).

 

 

Yum! I always thought they looked like little candies so I'm just having a virtual treat. Thanks! :001_smile:

[FairProspects]

I guess I'd flip your question back at you - why do YOU want to continue to be called a homeschooler when a significant portion of your child's education is designed & delivered by a school?

 

Because next year I will be both, and I can't figure out where we will fit!

 

Ds will be enrolled half-time, so we aren't considered "pure" homeschoolers, but all my public school friends think I'm crazy to deliver half of his education at home. I'm still picking and using homeschool curriculum, so I'd love be allowed to come here and pick the brains of you smart people who have been there, done that, but apparently I'm not a real homeschooler.

 

Does our family need to form our own club for people who do alternative schooling? I'm all for families and choice, so that everyone can get the best education for their children regardless of what it is called.

 

ETA: Just to clarify, this was not directed at any one poster or at Hornblower, I'm just trying to think through the designations! No offense meant to anyone in particular.

Edited May 21, 2010 by FairProspects

[hornblower]

This hasn't been posted recently:

 

http://www.homeschooloasis.com/art_the_seduction_of_hsing_fams_cardiff.htm

 

 

To combat these threats, defenders of the status quo are fighting back with all the legal, legislative, and economic weapons at their disposal. The most insidious of these tactics is the systematic undermining and co-opting of the homeschooling movement by establishing government homeschooling programs. Government homeschooling programs set seductive lures before families by providing “free” resources, teachers, extracurricular activities, facilities, and even cash reimbursement.

 

When enough families have voluntarily returned to the government system, it will be a relatively straightforward matter to recapture the rest by imposing mandatory homeschooling oversight regulations. Will this seduction succeed in eliminating independent homeschoolers and derailing the growing free market in education? Economics and the history of private schools versus government schools provide ample lessons on what to expect.

 

 

To the OP - the intro to this piece is written by someone in WA. :-)

[StartingOver]

I am lucky to live in a state that has no restrictions. I don't have to jump through any hoops. I sure won't for some "free" perks, that aren't really free. I have never seen a program like this in 22 years that didn't eventually tighten the strings.

 

I also have no desire what so ever to be identified as a public schooler, to be counted in that number. I am a proud homeschooling mother. I work hard for that name !

Edited May 21, 2010 by alatexan68

[MeaganS]

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry if this has been said before.

 

I think whether or not that status matters depends on why you are homeschooling in the first place. From what I can tell, people who are homeschooling primarily for academic reasons don't really care as much about official status things. They just want the best programs for their children. But people who are homeschooling because they want independence from the government or for religious reasons or for other ideals more than academics tend to see public school interventions as a threat to their choices and way of life. Neither one is bad, it just depends on your perspective and why you are doing it.

[joannqn]

The "homeschool" designation is important to me because I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder, telling me what to do and how to teach my children.

 

The program we participate in doesn't do this. We tell them what our learning goals are and they don't care what curriculum or method we use. As long as we are working towards the goals that we submitted and testing in the 30th percentile or above, they are happy. If a student tests below the 30th percentile, they ask the parent how they plan on addressing the problem. The homeschool law requires annual testing and requires that the parent make a good faith effort to remedy any deficiency found; the virtual academy is just following the homeschool law.

 

We do have to submit an at home learning plan where we go over what we will be teaching at home and the methods that we will use to meet our goals. I guess it doesn't bother me to show someone else what we are doing. As far as I can tell, they don't have say over what I show them, I just have to show them something so they know we have a plan and aren't relying on them to provide a curriculum. I actually saw it as a benefit for me because I like talking to people about what we're doing and getting feedback about it. As long as I'm able to take in and deal with the feedback in my own way, I'm fine with that. If I started getting notes home like some have mentioned telling me what and how to teach, I would definitely have to draw the line!

 

This is how our virtual academy works, except that they are hesitant to give any feedback beyond "making satisfactory progress". I've had to ASK for more feedback. Now I get comments like "making satisfactory progress. Gardening is a good way of learning about plants." It's all affirmation, nothing actually constructive. Well, that's not true. My first advisory teacher suggested I quit formal language arts altogether with my daughter and just let her write, teaching her grammar in the context of her personal writings.

 

I was a bad tester. I was so nervous about it I never took the SAT or the ACT. That really limits where you go to school. Finally, when I was 24, I screwed up my courage, studied and took the GRE. Now I'm fine with them. But I DO test because it can be stressful, etc. I hope when the SAT comes around, my kid will not be in panic mode.

 

This is my hope too.

 

If finding money for books and materials (or supplementary lessons like music and sports) had been a more difficult problem, I don't know if we would have been able to just choose what we felt was best, knowing that it was probably coming out of pocket. I think that it's easy to say that you'll walk away when the moment comes but harder to actually do so (especially if you feel like the money isn't really there or that you'll have to cut out something that has been a nice to have but that you don't feel you can afford).

 

I can see where this could be a problem for some. We haven't had this problem; our experience is the opposite. Money was an issue so I was forced to stick with the curriculum I had even if it wasn't working because I couldn't afford to replace it. I had to buy cheaper curriculum rather than what I wanted. Now, I chose my curriculum by what I want. I submit an order to our school for the portions they can purchase and I buy what they can't out of pocket. The quality of my kids' education at home as improved significantly since we enrolled. If the school becomes too rigid in the future, it will be hard to leave the funds but we will. I only hope we'll be able to afford curriculum by then.

 

To me the true brilliance of homeschooling is that we can look quite a bit beyond those narrow parameters & see a much broader range of what constitutes learning, as well as what constitutes assessment.

 

Our virtual academy is so flexible that even unschoolers are able to participate. They start the school year earlier than I like but the school has suggested I let the kids read, watch programs like Animal Planet, play with Lego, do crafts, ride their bikes, etc. until I'm ready to start. All these things count as far as the school is concerned.

 

Quote:

To combat these threats, defenders of the status quo are fighting back with all the legal, legislative, and economic weapons at their disposal. The most insidious of these tactics is the systematic undermining and co-opting of the homeschooling movement by establishing government homeschooling programs. Government homeschooling programs set seductive lures before families by providing “free” resources, teachers, extracurricular activities, facilities, and even cash reimbursement.

 

When enough families have voluntarily returned to the government system, it will be a relatively straightforward matter to recapture the rest by imposing mandatory homeschooling oversight regulations. Will this seduction succeed in eliminating independent homeschoolers and derailing the growing free market in education? Economics and the history of private schools versus government schools provide ample lessons on what to expect.

To the OP - the intro to this piece is written by someone in WA. :-)

 

They believe that homeschoolers will eventually be forced into these programs but the truth is our legislature tried to cut funding for these programs to force enrolled students back into independent homeschooling or traditional public school (they assumed 75% would choose homeschool and 25% would return to public school). The reality is the exact opposite of what these people fear.

Edited May 21, 2010 by joannqn

[LisaKinVA]

This hasn't been posted recently:

 

[/url]This hasn't been posted recently:

 

http://www.homeschooloasis.com/art_t...ms_cardiff.htm

 

 

Quote:

To combat these threats, defenders of the status quo are fighting back with all the legal, legislative, and economic weapons at their disposal. The most insidious of these tactics is the systematic undermining and co-opting of the homeschooling movement by establishing government homeschooling programs. Government homeschooling programs set seductive lures before families by providing “free†resources, teachers, extracurricular activities, facilities, and even cash reimbursement.

 

When enough families have voluntarily returned to the government system, it will be a relatively straightforward matter to recapture the rest by imposing mandatory homeschooling oversight regulations. Will this seduction succeed in eliminating independent homeschoolers and derailing the growing free market in education? Economics and the history of private schools versus government schools provide ample lessons on what to expect.

To the OP - the intro to this piece is written by someone in WA. :-)

 

 

This sounds like nothing but hyperbolic dribble, designed to scare people. There is not one fact in this. Not one supporting document, or even a hint of an actual gov't position. It's purely fiction...someone's "what if."

 

Public school at home is a part of the growing free market in education, and in many states is being fought tooth and nail by "traditional" public schools (which hate all forms of charter schools), education unions, and many, many others.

 

The gov't doesn't need a public shool at home option to get rid of homeschooling, to argue that these are somehow the linchpin to the downfall of homeschooling is simply fallacious.

[Orthodox6]

This sounds like nothing but hyperbolic dribble, designed to scare people. There is not one fact in this. Not one supporting document, or even a hint of an actual gov't position. It's purely fiction...someone's "what if."

 

Public school at home is a part of the growing free market in education, and in many states is being fought tooth and nail by "traditional" public schools (which hate all forms of charter schools), education unions, and many, many others.

 

The gov't doesn't need a public shool at home option to get rid of homeschooling, to argue that these are somehow the linchpin to the downfall of homeschooling is simply fallacious.

 

Anybody else notice the copyright date of 1998 at the foot of this most out-dated article ?

[Purpledaizy]

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry if this has been said before.

 

I think whether or not that status matters depends on why you are homeschooling in the first place. From what I can tell, people who are homeschooling primarily for academic reasons don't really care as much about official status things. They just want the best programs for their children. But people who are homeschooling because they want independence from the government or for religious reasons or for other ideals more than academics tend to see public school interventions as a threat to their choices and way of life. Neither one is bad, it just depends on your perspective and why you are doing it.

 

I was coming to this conclusion, but your post went up first :tongue_smilie:

Thank you everyone for posting. I am much better informed today than I was yesterday.

[Wheres Toto]

Mental fodder for the morning. . .

 

In a public or private school, set curricula are taught to the students.

 

In many homeschools, set curricula are taught to the students -- I refer to families which use exclusively a "canned curriculum", such as BJUP, Calvert, ABeka, Seton, Christian Liberty, and many other programs.

 

A snide observer, with sound logical jump, could assert that these homeschooling families "are not homeschoolers." Why ? Because they do not avoid "learning outcomes", "grades", "tests" and so forth. Because they do not, perhaps, have the time (or inclination) to include more creative, loose-format educational opportunities and activities. Because, visually, organizationally, and content-wise, there is no difference between "homeschool" and "outside school" other than the location and number of students. Religion is not even the "deal-breaker", as parochial and religious-based private schools often use one of these same "canned curricula".

 

Beware the overly-rigid definition of homeschooling !

 

:iagree: Especially with the bolded part.

[Blessedfamily]

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry if this has been said before.

 

I think whether or not that status matters depends on why you are homeschooling in the first place. From what I can tell, people who are homeschooling primarily for academic reasons don't really care as much about official status things. They just want the best programs for their children. But people who are homeschooling because they want independence from the government or for religious reasons or for other ideals more than academics tend to see public school interventions as a threat to their choices and way of life. Neither one is bad, it just depends on your perspective and why you are doing it.

 

I've noticed this, to a degree.

[MeaganS]

Really, the more I think about it, the more it comes down to the "social contract" idea, very similar to the one used about governments. In a government, we give up some of our freedoms for the sake of protection and infrastructure (defense, education, roads, etc. in exchange for laws and taxes). Some people are willing to give up certain privileges in order for convenience or what they see as the better good. The big debate, so far as I can tell, is how far this line should be drawn. At what point should people not give up their freedoms for convenience. For some people, this point is drawn at a bare minimum, like a small army and a few roads and police. And for some people this line is drawn a lot farther away, including things like free healthcare, food stamps, public education, etc.

 

In homeschooling, it really depends on where you fall on that spectrum as to what opinions you have. In my opinion, I don't think either is bad, but i think it can explain why so many feel strongly about this point.

Edited May 21, 2010 by MeaganS

[StartingOver]

Really, the more I think about it, the more it comes down to the "social contract" idea, very similar to the one used about governments. In a government, we give up some of our freedoms for the sake of protection and infrastructure (defense, education, roads, etc. in exchange for laws and taxes). Some people are willing to give up certain privileges in order for convenience or what they see as the better good. The big debate, so far as I can tell, is how far this line should be drawn. At what point should people not give up their freedoms for convenience. For some people, this point is drawn at a bare minimum, like a small army and a few roads and police. And for some people this line is drawn a lot farther away, including things like free healthcare, food stamps, public education, etc.

 

In homeschooling, it really depends on where you fall on that spectrum as to what opinions you have. In my opinion, I don't think either is bad, but i think it can explain why so many feel strongly about this point.

 

I believe this is correct. Back when we were fighting for the right to homeschool, we wanted no government involvement. We were trying to get away from the public school mentality. We wanted the right to teach as we see fit, free from regulations. Many of the old homeschoolers I knew then, would identify as Libertarian now. Less Government all the way around.

[Orthodox6]

Really, the more I think about it, the more it comes down to the "social contract" idea, very similar to the one used about governments. In a government, we give up some of our freedoms for the sake of protection and infrastructure (defense, education, roads, etc. in exchange for laws and taxes). Some people are willing to give up certain privileges in order for convenience or what they see as the better good. The big debate, so far as I can tell, is how far this line should be drawn. At what point should people not give up their freedoms for convenience. For some people, this point is drawn at a bare minimum, like a small army and a few roads and police. And for some people this line is drawn a lot farther away, including things like free healthcare, food stamps, public education, etc.

 

In homeschooling, it really depends on where you fall on that spectrum as to what opinions you have. In my opinion, I don't think either is bad, but i think it can explain why so many feel strongly about this point.

 

I think I like how you express this. The pendulum is swinging again. Now I see homeschooling parents wanting "to have their cake and eat it, too" in the form of demanding that public schools (sometimes private schools) allow their children to participate in classes and/or extracurricular activities on an a la carte choice basis. Simultaneously, these parents generally want to be left alone regarding how they do everything else. I do not subscribe to the lament, "but I pay taxes toward the public schools." I pay taxes for any number of things repugnant to my values. The government does not allow me to channel my required taxes into programs that I support, but not into those which I dislike.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think that there is faulty logic here. (Tyra Banks and I could put on the same dress, but that wouldn't make me a model.)

 

The driving point for me in homeschooling is where does the nexus of control rest.

It is easy to see that in a classroom based school the curriculum is selected by the teacher or by the school system.

It is also easy to see that an independent homeschool, the curriculum is selected by the family and delivered as they see fit (generally directly by the family).

 

If I have a visiting teacher bring books and assignments to by bedridden child is it homeschooling if I'm teaching the lessons in between weekly visits? Probably not, but a little hazy.

 

If I pick all the curriculum but the school district pays for it, is it homeschooling? Hazier still. By virtue of paying, the school gets a lot of authority over curriculum choices, oversight, testing, and reporting. The school system may choose a lassez faire attitude, but if they decide to change their policy, that remains in their circle of authority. You can't suddenly say, "Wait, we're homeschoolers. You can't tell us what to do." Unless you are ready to cut the financial connections (and perhaps be ready to pay back for equipment and materials that have already been provided).

 

I am a firm believer in open fellowship with parents. Our homeschool group has parents who are using complete internet or correspondence options, families who follow a particular curriculum, parents who mix and match, unschoolers, and even families who have kept their kids in school clubs (which is an option here). We even have several families with one homeschooled kid and the rest in school. When we have activities, I say let them all come as long as we have room.

 

But I am still wary of the powers that be deciding that all homeschoolers should be registered with the school (after all, some are) or that all homeschoolers need to take the Terra Nova test at school (after all, some do).

 

I was on a homeschool legislation email list years back and one of the terms that was bounced around on occasion was parent directed education. I like that term because it moved the focus from who delivered instruction to who had the authority to make choices.

[hornblower]

I think that there is faulty logic here. (Tyra Banks and I could put on the same dress, but that wouldn't make me a model.)

 

The driving point for me in homeschooling is where does the nexus of control rest.

 

Yes!!

 

You expressed this so well! :thumbup1: You'd be getting those lovely green candies from me if we still had rep..... :D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry if this has been said before.

 

I think whether or not that status matters depends on why you are homeschooling in the first place. From what I can tell, people who are homeschooling primarily for academic reasons don't really care as much about official status things. They just want the best programs for their children. But people who are homeschooling because they want independence from the government or for religious reasons or for other ideals more than academics tend to see public school interventions as a threat to their choices and way of life. Neither one is bad, it just depends on your perspective and why you are doing it.

 

I think there is some truth here. We have a lot of local homeschoolers who were fed up with the school or with one particular teacher. If the situation changes, they are more than willing to go back to school. And I think that they would be more than happy with a public school at home program.

 

But it is also possible to be homeschooling for academic reasons and to think that the public school probably won't ever be able to fit what you are looking for. (5th grade writing, high school reading, plus algebra, German and Latin for a 10yo with 10yo emotions? Not at any school I've encountered.)

 

But I agree that the reasons why you came to homeschooling do have a lot to do with your comfort level with both school support/oversight programs and homeschooling without a net.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think I like how you express this. The pendulum is swinging again. Now I see homeschooling parents wanting "to have their cake and eat it, too" in the form of demanding that public schools (sometimes private schools) allow their children to participate in classes and/or extracurricular activities on an a la carte choice basis. Simultaneously, these parents generally want to be left alone regarding how they do everything else. I do not subscribe to the lament, "but I pay taxes toward the public schools." I pay taxes for any number of things repugnant to my values. The government does not allow me to channel my required taxes into programs that I support, but not into those which I dislike.

 

I do agree that one doesn't necessarily have an arguement for getting some school services but not others.

 

On the other hand, I can use the rec center and the town library even if I don't have a kid in school. Or to put it all into the school, a kid on the college track and a kid on a vocational track could both be in the band or on the basketball team.

 

So I think that some of the a la carte motivation is looking at some of the things school is offering and thinking, hey, my taxes support this program. It is something we need or want. Why does the fact that we're declining the math and English offerings mean that we can't have access to track and biology?

 

Personally I'd like to see most of the extras de-linked from the schools, from sports to clubs to music. Then I'd like to see more of a cafeteria style for most education so that there wasn't a 6th grade all laid out that hardly fit my kid at all, but rather a bunch of offerings on a spectrum and I could pick which ones suited and go elsewhere or do at home what didn't.

 

But then, my ideal of education is that it is what happens when one person has knowledge that another is willing to pay to get, whether that is reading and arithmetic or calculus or airlock repair. (See the book The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein for more detail.)

[Alphabetika]

The short answer is that to be part of the public school system you must concede some autonomy. I don't want to do that. I will gladly reject any incentives that require a measure of accountability to the public school system.

:iagree: