Don't quote me because I want to delete this just in case...

[staceyobu]

:)

Edited May 19, 2010 by staceyobu

[dansamy]

Do what you need to do in order to protect your children. Including pressing charges for assault if you need to do so. At this point, it has gone far beyond normal children playing, roughhousing behavior. The intent is to harm your children. Confront the parents and make it very clear that if their children do not immediately cease their behavior towards yours, you will pursue every legal right you have to protect them.

 

No, you don't just "get over it". One of your kids will eventually be seriously injured by these children.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No playdates. No unsupervised time at church if these kids are there. (And I know that is a PITA for you but you have to protect your kids). I would not let them get within 10 feet of your kids. You see them starting to walk by, go right over to your kids and stand between them. You are right, you could have been in the ER with your child today.

[Unicorn.]

I would talk to the kids myself. In my best mama bear, protective mode voice, and tell them that their behavior is unacceptable, and they need to stop. Give them a good, scary lecture! Do they only do this w/ your kids, or is it happening w/ others as well? Maybe if several parents started complaining, the parents might actually do something. hth

[Peela]

Absolutely- I would talk in my biggest mama bear voice too- very strongly and firmly. I am also not sure I would allow my kids to be alone with these other kids until this felt resolved- Sunday school or no.

 

And...honestly, there has nothing you have said that you should feel the need to delete...so it sounds like you are afraid of the consequences of speaking the truth? Are the parents intimidating you?

[mysticamethyst]

You have talked to the parents, you have done what you could do to stop this kind of behavior, which its not. Have you seen "Hand that Rocks the Cradle"? I know extreme and I would never physically touch someone else's child but I would most certainly get in a childs face and warn them in an extremely stern fashion that I had better never see them lay another hand, finger or anything else on any one of my children. Then if the parents have issue say, "Well, I asked you repeatedly to do something now I have done something and if you don't like the way I have handled it that is fine let us call the police and see what they say when I press charges against jonny for assulting my dd".

 

I know mine will not be the popular answer and most of the time I act first think later kind of girl. I am sorry that you and your children are facing this mess. How horrible for all of you.

[Lizzie in Ma]

No playdates. No unsupervised time at church if these kids are there. (And I know that is a PITA for you but you have to protect your kids). I would not let them get within 10 feet of your kids. You see them starting to walk by, go right over to your kids and stand between them. You are right, you could have been in the ER with your child today.

 

Agreed. We have had bullying issues at church too. It totally stinks but we had to be proactive.

[springmama]

What you are describing is not normal playing. I am used to seeing kids get frustrated with each other occasionally and maybe pushing a little or grabbing toys....maybe once in awhile hitting each other in the head with a toy (in the case of some toddlers), but this is over the top. You need to do something.

Punching another child and randomly throwing a two year old off a trike are abnormal.

 

Now, as far as the parents are concerned. At this point, I'd be at the point of either finding a new church or confronting the parents. I would go easy on them and be gentle with the confrontation, but make sure they know that this behavior is completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated anymore.

 

Then, if it happens again, I'd confront the children.

[Chris in VA]

I think there is something seriously wrong with a 4 year old who is so aggressive.

 

Maybe you could go to the parents (you AND your husband), tell them you have witnessed this aggression repeatedly, and ask them if their child has issues of which you should be aware, because it isn't normal for a kid to act like this totally unprovoked. If they act all offended or whatever, then you could say that you will be supervising your kids much more closely and would appreciate if they did the same. Emphasize that the behaviors are not accidental, that your children were hurt or could have been very hurt, and that you will simply not put up with it.

 

I think 4 and 6 is too young to say you will press charges against them if they "assault" your kids--it comes off as an overreaction (even if it isn't) and you don't want to look crazy (again, it's NOT crazy, but some may not take you seriously if you go that route). Protect your kids by supervising very closely, and by limiting contact. Be direct but firm with the parents.

 

Too bad you can't take the parents to court, like you would if it were a dog instead of a kid.

[NanceXToo]

Wow yeah you have to go back to their parents and tell them what happened, that it was definitely NOT an accident, that these incidents of bullying and injuring your children have happened repeatedly and are getting worse, that you are at the point where you are afraid to let your children be anywhere near theirs, that you will have to watch yours much more closely now whenever they are together so that they don't get hurt, and that you really need them to do the same to prevent their children from hurting other children.

 

I also agree that you should absolutely yell at/speak firmly to their kids and tell them very sternly they better not ever put their hands on your children again if you ever see them doing anything even remotely harassing or hurtful again. And if it happens at church, I might even ask the pastor or whoever to refuse to allow those particular children to be left unattended since they can't be trusted not to hurt other children and that you are done with having your kids be the ones to get hurt.

 

(I also agree with Chris that you can't be threatening anything to do with "assault," that sounds silly when it's against a 4 year old and you won't be taken as seriously).

[JFSinIL]

Do what you need to do in order to protect your children. Including pressing charges for assault if you need to do so. At this point, it has gone far beyond normal children playing, roughhousing behavior. The intent is to harm your children. Confront the parents and make it very clear that if their children do not immediately cease their behavior towards yours, you will pursue every legal right you have to protect them.

 

No, you don't just "get over it". One of your kids will eventually be seriously injured by these children.

 

And - I would be stepping between those little monsters and my kids at every opportunity and telling then - loudly so their parents hear - "Stay away from Susie. You may NOT hurt her!" etc.

 

Your kids may not be the only ones getting bullied by these kids. Maybe other parents will step up, too to defend their tots if you start doing so.

 

You might want to also alert child protection services to check out the parents - those kids may be themselves being abused. They have to learn it somewhere, right? At least it could serve as a wake-up call to the parents that their kids need help!

Edited May 17, 2010 by JFSinIL

[Pippen]

In our children's program, they have a number of steps they take when kids are acting out. I've seen them use one-on-one aides, behavioral contracts, incentive programs, and occasionally requiring a parent to attend with the child. I realize these are young children, but they need to be on top of things to ensure every child feels safe.

 

I'd also not allow any unsupervised contact and if the parents aren't effective, I'd have my husband get in that kid's face any time he came near my child. You probably won't be able to prevent everything but you sure can reduce it.

 

I also agree that I'd be confronting the parents again. Their kids are probably acting out in other situations as well and they need to be made aware how serious it is.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

No playdates. No unsupervised time at church if these kids are there. (And I know that is a PITA for you but you have to protect your kids). I would not let them get within 10 feet of your kids. You see them starting to walk by, go right over to your kids and stand between them. You are right, you could have been in the ER with your child today.

 

:iagree: I would stick by your kids like glue and not let those kids get near them. Unfortunately I think you are going to have police the situation at all times IMHO. You could also speak to the pastor as well, but I would still police the situation.

[KnitWit]

I agree with the others. Limit time and when you *are* with them, DON'T hesitate to step in there. Ages 2, 3, and 5 are a little young to go it alone against kids like this, and if they have to, they may end up bullies themselves, which you don't want.

 

I knew a mom like you describe these parents. She truly felt that if anyone had an issue with her kids, it was up to *them* to address her kid directly. :confused:

[Jan in SC]

I would call the parents and tell them that it has gotten out of hand. Ask if they would like to handle it or if they would rather you deal with it. List for them the ways you will deal with it. (No time alone, every incident reported to them, you will issue time-outs/lectures, SS teacher will be informed)

 

You can be polite, yet firm and make your point. If anything happens again, follow-up on your promise. Sadly, this is going to take a lot of your time, but those kids will move on to other children and then you will have an ally and the situation might get better!

 

Good luck!

[Night Elf]

Some children cannot handle being in a group. Yes, the teacher needs to be told and I'd specifically ask her/him what they can do about it because you're seriously considering pulling your children out for fear of serious injury.

 

Why aren't the parents supervising? IMHO, if they are aware of the violent issues, and I do believe what you're describing is violent, and they aren't closely supervising their children in situations where their children are known to be violent, I would tell the people in charge and possibly keep them with me at all times. If one of those children even made an attempt to approach my child, I'd head him off. If I saw him harrassing other children, I'd bring it to the attention of the person in charge and ask them to accompany me to bring that child back to his parents at that moment.

 

We had a child like that in one of our Sunday School classes and he was closely supervised at every minute. That is the responsible thing to do.

[Danestress]

I know this is unpopular here and that many think otherwise, and that is fine. But having brought this up to the parents several times, I would address the child directly. No yelling, name calling, anything like that. Just stop, get down on your knees, look the child right in the eyes and say, "You just hurt DD. You pushed her on purpose. You go tell your mother what you just did." And then when the parents address this, I would directly tell the parents, "I saw it. He purposely punched her in the stomach very hard. It was unprovoked."

 

They may not like that and will want to argue or excuse, but be ready to say "I saw the whole thing, and it's not the first time. Your child has a problem with this. We love you, but you need to address this and you need to watch more closely because you will see what I am seeing."

 

They won't like it. Too bad. Your job is to protect your child and to demonstrate to her what assertive self protection looks like.

[KinderSafari]

Our kids get consequences whether it was intentional or not.

2 chores if it was unintentional hurting someone else and

4 chores if it was intentional

 

Consequences shouldn't just be if someone does something intentional.

 

Discipline shouldn't just be handed out for intent.

 

And if I can't control other people's kids (and I shouldn't be expected to unless I'm the one in charge), or a teacher can't control other people's kids, and the parents don't control their own kids, I would be hyper-vigilant of my kids.

 

It sounds like you've done everything you can.

You might hurt the other families feelings, but what's more important?

Your kids are going to hate going to church and these activities.

 

Some parents are truly clueless. It's not your job to teach the parents how to parent. It's not your job to teach the teacher how to discipline. It IS your job to PROTECT YOUR own kids.

 

I would stop attending these events and if people ask why - I would still be polite and give every benefit of the doubt and say "I'm oversensitive sometimes, my kids just seemed to be getting hurt or in trouble with the number of kids around, so we're just taking a break for awhile."

 

Now, if it were MY kids doint the bullying, I'd hope you'd come tell me and I would respond appropriately. It sounds like you've discussed this with the parents, and if they choose to respond in a different way that's not really resolving the problem, you need to choose to do something different.

 

Good luck! I hate this kind of drama!

[MBM]

I agree with everyone who says to get in between these boys and your children, plant your hands on your hips, and sternly tell them to stop immediately. Your kids need to see how this is done, so they can learn how to do it themselves and that it's not okay for others to treat them this way.

 

Any parent in his or her right mind would not allow their child to behave this way toward other children.

[SproutMamaK]

I would talk to the parents one more time - they may honestly not realize what's going on. They may juse assume their children are telling the truth. I'd give them ONE more shot to fix it. Tell them straight up, "I understand that your child told you that this was just an accident. You need to know that your child is not only hurting my child intentionally, but lying to you. Because my children have become scared of attending these events, I've been watching them VERY closely. I can tell you with absolutely certainty that my daughter was simply standing there and your son walked past and punched her in teh stomach without her doing anything. It was a VERY hard punch and she hurt for a long time afterwards. I was watching my two year old and he TRIED to get out of hte way of your son, but your son kept intentionally blocking his way, and then deliberately picked him up and threw him head first onto the concrete floor. I don't know why he's behaving this way, but you need to know that he's lying to you about it, and that is ABSOLUTELY in intentionally and unprovoked. If my child were acting like this, I would want to know - I thought you had a right to know what's going on so you can deal with it accordingly. I know it's hard, and I'm sorry that you have to deal with this."

 

And THEN if they're forced to face it, see what they do. In the meantime - do as the others have suggested. Keep between your children and theirs. If one of their children approaches yours, stick between them and tell them that until they can play nicely, they're not allowed to play with your kids. Hopefully their parents will also step up to the plate and between the two sets of parents things will get better. But if they DON'T step up to the plate, and until the kids have shown an improved attitude, you'll have to be the one to keep them apart. That sucks for you. :(

Edited May 17, 2010 by SproutMamaK

[Snickerdoodle]

I think it's very important that whatever you decide to do that you actually do it.

 

Your children need to see you taking action on behalf of their protection. By not doing anything you are sending a message to your children that it's ok for other people to treat them this way.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

[Denisemomof4]

Dh and/or I would talk to the parents AND THEIR KIDS, and tell their kids they are to stay COMPLETELY away from your children. They are to NEVER touch them, NEVER go near them. Then if it happens again, yes, you and dh should go to the pastor. I'd let them know that you're hoping you and dh can remain friends with the parents (or friendLY) so that there's no awkward social situations, but I would NOT allow their kids access to mine. Ever.

[ereks mom]

And - I would be stepping between those little monsters and my kids at every opportunity and telling then - loudly so their parents hear - "Stay away from Susie. You may NOT hurt her!" etc.

 

Your kids may not be the only ones getting bullied by these kids. Maybe other parents will step up, too to defend their tots if you start doing so.

 

You might want to also alert child protection services to check out the parents - those kids may be themselves being abused. They have to learn it somewhere, right? At least it could serve as a wake-up call to the parents that their kids need help!

 

:iagree:

[cjbeach]

No playdates. No unsupervised time at church if these kids are there. (And I know that is a PITA for you but you have to protect your kids). I would not let them get within 10 feet of your kids. You see them starting to walk by, go right over to your kids and stand between them. You are right, you could have been in the ER with your child today.

:iagree:WE have a new neighbor with a 4yo and the kid is in daycare 8-9 hours a day and seems very unsupervised at home. OMG is this kid rough. We have taught "soft hands, hands are for helping not for hurting" yet my 4yo ds is constantly getting hit by this kid next door. We don't want to say anything more than "defend yourself" but the kid next door is way, way too rough. It's crazy how out of control this child is. He stood in front of our wall of cubbies and dumped every toy cubby out on the floor while I was telling him, no. Just went for another and dumped it until I physically stopped him. My dh physically grabbed the kid by the hand to stop him from hitting my son. We've taught, no...that's wrong. Now here's this kid who just randomly punches everyone, it's not cool. I know some people think it's cute, it's funny. I don't. The parents had him late in life and they don't seem like they have a clue who he is or how to handle him.

We try to limit time spent with him now...different parenting style.