momee Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 My dh is thinking of taking money from his retirement account (fairly hefty at this stage) to purchase a pop up camper for our family (not really that much money, it's not the Brady bunch mobile, just a little used pop up). We have NEVER taken a vacation as just our family and our kids are at the perfect age that they still WANT to spend time with us. I told him a few weeks ago I felt with all the time he was spending with work and church commitments he was missing some of it. (Mean, bad, wife I am, what an awful thing to say looking back but I was just musing on how quickly they're growing, not being spiteful about his commitments) Anyhow, we'd take a bit of a penalty for taking the money so I know it's not the wisest way to gain the income but we're on only one income and savings just isn't happening. We're almost debt free other than car and mortgage so that's not my concern about it, it's that crazy "penalty". A camper is a bit extravagant in some people's opinions and yes, we do have a tent but there are five of us, two months there will be six of us and I can't see all of us in our little tent this summer. We've been telling the kids for two summers now we were going camping as a family and the four hours of loading stuff into the back of the van and setting up our little tent is getting more and more impossible. Not to mention the return trip's loading up and unloading for two days break. What would you do? I know I will go along with him in his decision - he has NEVER steered us wrong in any of his decisions (Mr. Steady and reasonable) and this is very important to all of us, spending more time together. I'm just wanting to hear some wise wive's wisdom on it I guess. Thanks for "listening". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Jenny Flint Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I am not you, nor am I in your situation, but here is my take on it: If you take money out of the retirement fund, not only are you paying the penalty on that amount, but you are also losing the interest that that amount would gain you over the next 10-15-20 years- which is hefty. I would ask myself, if the camper is worth $3000. and I am paying a 20% penalty, well, that's already 3600, and then I lose the compound interest, which is probably double that. Is the camper really worth $9000? These are all examples and I have NO idea what the real numbers are, but if it is not important enough to save the money for in my family, we go without it. NEVER would we touch retirement money outside of a catastrophic event. How's that for one end of the spectrum? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Not only is there a penalty, the money you take out is now taxable income. Why not just rent a camper for a vacation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 My dh is thinking of taking money from his retirement account (fairly hefty at this stage) to purchase a pop up camper for our family (not really that much money, it's not the Brady bunch mobile, just a little used pop up). We have NEVER taken a vacation as just our family and our kids are at the perfect age that they still WANT to spend time with us. I told him a few weeks ago I felt with all the time he was spending with work and church commitments he was missing some of it. (Mean, bad, wife I am, what an awful thing to say looking back but I was just musing on how quickly they're growing, not being spiteful about his commitments) Anyhow, we'd take a bit of a penalty for taking the money so I know it's not the wisest way to gain the income but we're on only one income and savings just isn't happening. We're almost debt free other than car and mortgage so that's not my concern about it, it's that crazy "penalty". A camper is a bit extravagant in some people's opinions and yes, we do have a tent but there are five of us, two months there will be six of us and I can't see all of us in our little tent this summer. We've been telling the kids for two summers now we were going camping as a family and the four hours of loading stuff into the back of the van and setting up our little tent is getting more and more impossible. Not to mention the return trip's loading up and unloading for two days break. What would you do? I know I will go along with him in his decision - he has NEVER steered us wrong in any of his decisions (Mr. Steady and reasonable) and this is very important to all of us, spending more time together. I'm just wanting to hear some wise wive's wisdom on it I guess. Thanks for "listening". I would regret it. You should not, IMO, touch retirement unless it means losing your house or losing the life of a family member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 take a car and find cheap hotels and camp along the trip. I think you would regret taking that money out of retirement. Maybe you can wait and the whole family can find little ways to save some money to go. I think vacations are a really important priority, but I'd probably wait on buying the camper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HootyTooty Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I wouldn't do it. The penalty, interest lost, and Dave Ramsey shaking his head would all factor in. I would wait and save for it (which is what we are doing now). We are half way to our goal and the rebate check in May will get us there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Yes, I'd regret it. I would look at other options for now. Can you borrow a camper from someone for a week? Maybe you could offer to "pay" them for it by working in their yard or by babysitting. Renting might be expensive but I've been thinking about checking that out for ourselves! Can you put $20 a month into a camper fund? I know that you said savings aren't happening. But I've been making fake "payments" to myself for some savings for special things. I write a pretend "check" on Quicken - then I'm not tempted to spend that money on other things. Of course, if that means you can't pay for utilities or groceries, that would be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 It just seems like an impulse buy that you may not use all that much. We have friends who have them and they offer them to us to use occasionally (we have never taken them up on it - I.don't.camp! :D ) Anyway, I don't know if you'll regret it - only you know that. I just am so concerned about our retirement $$ these days (as you never know who is going to dump their pension plan - we're an airline family), that I am pretty protective of our future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandpsmommy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I wouldn't take money of our retirement fund unless we were in truly dire circumstances and it was the last resort. I do think that shared family fun and vacations are very important. I think renting or borrowing a camper is a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I wouldn't consider taking money out of my retirement account. We're avid campers and love our travel trailer and suggest looking for other ways to get your camper. Since you camp in tents, you know the lifestyle and know that you will use it. Otherwise, I'd suggest renting one. If it were my situation, I'd say reducing your contribution to your retirement fund for a short while and use that to pay for it. You don't have the penalty, but you just don't contribute as much either. Just be sure to redouble your efforts once you pay for the camper. If it's a hefty account, you shouldn't notice the small "bump" over the long run. Also, interest charges on a camper loan are (or maybe were if the laws have changed) tax deductible as a second home mortage. It's something to consider as well. I'm not advocating going into a large debt for the sake of a camper, but if it's something you can work out instead of pulling from your retirement, I'd go that way first. Enjoy your camper and maybe we'll meet up in a state park somewhere, someday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I did not cash it in. It was 17K (I had contributed that much over the 10 years). I just left it. Well, 10 years later, my little 17K has grown into 95K+ without me contributing a single penny. So, taking a little bit now will cost you far more over the next 10 years than you can imagine. Look into renting a cabin in a state park. Really, they aren't that expensive if you go off-season. hth k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 We consider the retirement fund inviolate. You can borrow money to finance a camper, a car, a house, a child's education. No one is going to lend you money to eat when you retire, particularly as you will likely not be in a position to earn more to repay it. As to "I told him a few weeks ago I felt with all the time he was spending with work and church commitments he was missing some of it. (Mean, bad, wife I am, what an awful thing to say looking back but I was just musing on how quickly they're growing, not being spiteful about his commitments)"....don't feel guilty. It was *not* an "awful" thing to say. It was a loving attempt to help him see the forest for the trees. My husband and I have had the same discussion (both ways). It is very easy to get caught up in all the responsibilities that you feel you should take on and not realize how they all add up to eat into family time. Such discussions help you take stock of your priorities and how well your actions and choices are matching up with those. We have had numerous conversations about what we will think about our choices in 10 years. For example, in 10 years will I regret more missing family time with my husband and child or not chairing the pledge drive (or the fundraising or the religious education or whatever) committee for the church. My husband has a long commute which further eats into weekday interactions, but it is not in our best interest for him to look to change from a stable job of 13 years right now just to get a shorter commute. Personally it has lead me to declare that I will not serve on a church committee next year (though I do a couple of other things I can do from home or in small chunks) in order to free up time to focus more on commitments to our homeschooling group --something I can do during the day and not eat into our limited family time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 A friend of mine went in together with another family to purchase a pop-up camper. I think they used it two summers before they sold it. Do you have a place to store a camper? It occupied quite a bit of their driveway when not in use. Could you rent a pop-up from somebody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristineIN Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I would check craigslist or maybe even freecycle (who knows!) Good luck. I agree with what everyone else has said. Kristine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabeth in IL Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I will agree with everyone that financially it doesn't make sense to take the money out of retirement but if there was really no other way - - you can't borrow or rent one -- then I might do it. Why? Because family time with dh is more important then the money. If you were talking about using a very large amount or all of it, I would say, No way! But using a little to build family relationships and memories is priceless. The kids do grow quickly and then they will be gone. All that being said, I would work really hard to rent or borrow a camper!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momee Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Thank you all for your replies. We have a pop up on freecycle right now actually. It was a gift from my father in law to all of us, unfortunately it is unsalvageable. That's kind of what prompted this whole thing. The kids were soooooooo excited! and so were we. Then we opened it up and found the roof rotted, the canvas a mess and the electrical didn't work :( Someone who's homeless is coming to get it to attempt to restore it (how bout that to bring you to priorities!!) I agree with all of you - but I need to pray about how to discuss this with dh. He's a hard worker and really determined to enjoy his family. Isn't it too bad life isn't all about kids working with you on a farm and enjoying the simpler life? I digress, thanks to all of you for the reality check. Needs vs. wants are such a struggle. We could use the lesson in diligence and patience by working to save for it, then! how valued would that camper be right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 or look into renting a pop-up camper - or post on your local freecycle that you need one. Do NOT touch retirement $$$$! Maybe the local Scout troop could lend a tent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket1178 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I just thought I would throw this idea out there. I know a family who never had money to speak of, but has always taken vacations. The way they did it was to stay at TOA (I think that's what their called) campgrounds. They have cabins or camping sites (tents, too) at low cost. They also took their food with them which cut down on eating out. They visited all the site seeing places that were free, so they only had to pay for gas for their vehicle. It was a really cheap way to vacation, and to hear them tell their stories, a lot of great family memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell in SC Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Don't know what your DH work status is, but if this is a employer sponsored 401k, you won't be able to get money out of it for a camper purchase. Since you guys are not averse to tent camping I'd look into purchasing a bigger tent. They make tents that are HUGE and can sleep like 10 people comfortably. I've had 1 that would comfortably sleep 8 adults and our current tent will sleep more than that. I think we got it for b/t $100 and $150. HTH, Shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 They make tents that are HUGE and can sleep like 10 people comfortably. Yep. We call ours the "Tent Mahal"! :D And, if it helps at all to know, my parents have camped in everything from the Tent Mahal to a pop up to a tow camper. Their take on the three options from a "having to pack everything but the kitchen sink" is that with all 3 there's always *work* involved in camping. For us, the bottomline is, camping is work. period. But, without fail, once we've arrived we're in 100% agreement that it's worth it because of the family togetherness that we experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 We bought a large dome tent in Costco 2-3 years ago. It is so big that it has 3 rooms! Our kingsize air mattress fits nicely in one of the two wings! It is huge! And since it's a dome tent, it is not that hard to put up. It does take two people, though. We have been very happy with it, and in theory it sleeps something like 13 people. I think that you can do better than a tent trailor. And I think that taking money out of your retirement accounts would be a poor financial choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I wouldn't do it. If you cannot afford to buy the camper, you won't be able to afford to put back into your retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket1178 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I wouldn't do it. If you cannot afford to buy the camper, you won't be able to afford to put back into your retirement. It is better to try other options IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Well, sounds like I will be the only voice of dissention here... Last year, we bought a Westfalia, a bit more than a camper, sleeps 4, and is self-motored. WE LOVE IT! While the Westfalia wouldn't fit your needs - it's not big enough - I cannot tell you the difference it's made in our family life. Finally, dad is with the kids! The kids are outside, not in front of the computer, and we travel cheaply too! We didn't take money out of the retirement account, but it's money we should have put into it. So while we didn't pay the penalty for taking money out, we are losing on interest. And wouldn't you know it, our retirement plan was negative last year! We ended up losing LESS with the Westfalia than with the retirement plan! On the other hand, cricket1178's suggestion of going to KOA is also good. We love KOA for the kids activities, and the campings are among the cleanest we've seen. They have campings all over the US. Their little Kabins are cute, very simple (basically 4 walls and a roof!) http://koa.com/facilities/kabin/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticamethyst Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 We are a family of six, also have promised kids to go camping around our state and so on. About 5 months ago DH found a very used 1977 to be exact, camper home thingy on craigs list. It runs and its really great I suppose, but we have NEVER used it. DH is now to busy at work to ever take time off to use it and now that gas is thru the roof its not sounding so fun anymore. Just to get to San Antonio from here is going to cost almost $400 in gas. We are paying $50 a month for storage, do you have a place to store it? I would love nothing more than to get rid of "The Beast" as it has beed dubbed. The only family time we get from it is the occasional Sunday when he had oldest son go to work on it, doing man things don't you know. I would not get one if I were you, it has been nothing more than in extra expense in our house, and I definately wouldn't take money out of a 401K acct. the penelies are really not worth it. Could you borrow one from a friend or someone in your group. I know people that lend theirs out all the time. Heck, do you live close to Houston, you canborrow mine. I am sure you and your DH will do what is best for you family in the end. ;):001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Yep. We call ours the "Tent Mahal"! :D And, if it helps at all to know, my parents have camped in everything from the Tent Mahal to a pop up to a tow camper. Their take on the three options from a "having to pack everything but the kitchen sink" is that with all 3 there's always *work* involved in camping. For us, the bottomline is, camping is work. period. But, without fail, once we've arrived we're in 100% agreement that it's worth it because of the family togetherness that we experience. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Taking money out of your retirement fund is never a good idea (until retirement, of course). Every financial book I have read and every financial person I have talked to says this. As far as camping...I love to camp and go quite a bit in the summer. I do have a pop-up trailer, but I've only had it a few years. Prior to that I always tent camped. Camping is work no matter how you do it. If you have a water proof tent and some good cushioning under your body (I like heavy duty foam pads vs. air mattresses, because they don't deflate) there isn't much difference between that and the trailer. Our electrical doesn't work, and we don't cook in the trailer to keep bears away. Hope this helps you! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momee Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 We went through with the purchase and have a beautiful ready to go camper sitting in our driveway. My family is super excited, I will be able to camp this summer with a new baby now that we'll have ac and necessities and guess what's best of all............... NO PENALTY. He had enough in his retirement that we were able to make a withdrawl and pay only taxes (which we'd have paid anyway, had we not put the money in there but kept it in our paycheck). He also received a substantial bonus check (totally unexpected) that week that I took as confirmation that we're not to worry about tomorrow (plan for yes, worry for, no) and that God will provide for our needs. The couple thousand dollars may add up to more income years from now but I wouldn't trade the chance for making family memories for any amount of cash. Just wanted to share how it all worked out and that in spite of all of your financial advice (thank you all so much for being so honest) I feel God has really blessed us with the ability to use that money for something so worthwhile. I am so glad I trusted my husband - he is wise and the confidence he's shown since I've told him it's his decision is priceless. See ya in the woods somewhere maybe...:auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Me Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I am very happy for you! Have a great time camping! (I am a little jealous~trying not to covet the camper here!!) :auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2jnb Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 We took the plunge last year and purchased a *new to us* pop up camper. We absolutely love it. We were *tenters* for years so it was so nice to go camping and have things such as rain not have me up all night worrying my tent would be flooded in the am. Enjoy camping.....I hope you have many family memories with your new camper. Congrats!!! Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I would not touch retirement savings for anything less than a life or death emergency. Even then, I would be more likely to try to work out a payment plan than touch my retirement savings. Some of the other posters have given good reasons. I have camped a LOT--just about every year, including with a newborn. It would be far less expensive to get a second tent. In addition, we actually bought a super-cheap children's tent (it's extremely small) and use it to store our luggage while we are camping. You can usually find them for $15-$20. If you need two, it is still cost effective to get two tiny tents, plus one more sleeping tent. JMHO--hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I'm glad things worked out well! That's great you got no penalties. I wish my retirement fund was like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmkclscroggins Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 NO!!!!Don't do it!!!! Retirement money should never be touched unless it's a dire emergency - loss of job and about to lose the house or a family member is about to die without major surgery. What about purchasing another tent? Renting a camper? What about checking state parks and renting a cabin? There are many options that don't involve penalties and loss of retirement dollars. Just my opinion. melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabeth in IL Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 We went through with the purchase and have a beautiful ready to go camper sitting in our driveway. My family is super excited, I will be able to camp this summer with a new baby now that we'll have ac and necessities and guess what's best of all............... NO PENALTY. He had enough in his retirement that we were able to make a withdrawl and pay only taxes (which we'd have paid anyway, had we not put the money in there but kept it in our paycheck). He also received a substantial bonus check (totally unexpected) that week that I took as confirmation that we're not to worry about tomorrow (plan for yes, worry for, no) and that God will provide for our needs. The couple thousand dollars may add up to more income years from now but I wouldn't trade the chance for making family memories for any amount of cash. Just wanted to share how it all worked out and that in spite of all of your financial advice (thank you all so much for being so honest) I feel God has really blessed us with the ability to use that money for something so worthwhile. I am so glad I trusted my husband - he is wise and the confidence he's shown since I've told him it's his decision is priceless. See ya in the woods somewhere maybe...:auto: I was one of the people that thought it might actually be worth it even if not the best thing financially. I'm so glad that you, your dh, and kids are going to have the chance to make beautiful memories together. We never know how long we have on this earth so it is best to live for today while planning for the future instead of planning today to live in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 We went through with the purchase and have a beautiful ready to go camper sitting in our driveway. My family is super excited, I will be able to camp this summer with a new baby now that we'll have ac and necessities and guess what's best of all............... NO PENALTY. He had enough in his retirement that we were able to make a withdrawl and pay only taxes (which we'd have paid anyway, had we not put the money in there but kept it in our paycheck). He also received a substantial bonus check (totally unexpected) that week that I took as confirmation that we're not to worry about tomorrow (plan for yes, worry for, no) and that God will provide for our needs. I'm so happy for you. The purchase may not be the best decision from a financial standpoint, but you can't measure memories and fun times in $$. Like I said, we absolutely love ours and would encourage anyone who can swing it and has an interest to do it. We use it at least once and usually twice a month. Campers are still work to set up, but nothing like tents. We keep ours loaded with most stuff and just toss in refrigerated items and clothes and we're off. We've gotten efficient at setting up and can do so in less than a half hour. We camp mostly in state parks. I must say there's nothing like sitting under your awning and watching the deer walk up to see what food you have around, or wake up to a stream running right outside your window. The kids learn so much on our trips by just looking and listening. We've also met some of the most wonderful people at campgrounds. Maybe we'll meet up with you one of these days!! :001_smile: Enjoy your blessing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Yep. We call ours the "Tent Mahal"! :D And, if it helps at all to know, my parents have camped in everything from the Tent Mahal to a pop up to a tow camper. Their take on the three options from a "having to pack everything but the kitchen sink" is that with all 3 there's always *work* involved in camping. For us, the bottomline is, camping is work. period. But, without fail, once we've arrived we're in 100% agreement that it's worth it because of the family togetherness that we experience. We have a Tent Mahal too! :) And I 100% agree that while camping is work (no question!!) it is absolutely worth it. We love our three-room tent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I'm glad it worked out for your family! I absolutely love camping; it is the most relaxing vacation (for me :)), even though it does require work. Happy camping, Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 ooh the excitement! I still have one more month before we get our camper back... (well motorhome, but small enough to feel like a camper! :) ) I am SOOOO looking forward to it. Yeah, it's a money pit, but one we can handle. It's important to build family memories *now*, not when you're retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Can you rent a camper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 NO PENALTY. He had enough in his retirement that we were able to make a withdrawl and pay only taxes (which we'd have paid anyway, had we not put the money in there but kept it in our paycheck). .:auto: I'm afraid this doesn't make sense, unless he took it out of a Roth IRA, which can't be right since you say you'll have to pay taxes. You can withdraw your own contributions from a Roth IRA without penalty (but not the earnings). There's no such provision as having enough in your retirement that you don't have to pay the penalty (e.g., traditional IRA, 401K, 403B, etc.) I don't mean to rain on your parade but don't be shocked if you find out you owe an additional 10% on the money withdrawn come tax time next year. Pegasus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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