Tanya in KS Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Here is the situation: We just added on to our home. Of course, it increased our mortgage. (We started this all last year and just got things wrapped up before gas and everything else started skyrocketing.) We own a trailer camper. We have 7 children in the home, 4 are under the age of 5. My husband works LONG hours in agriculture at a local cooperative as a fert manager. My husband is NOT willing to move (with the market in our area our home would never sell) and he is NOT willing to sell the camper. Two of our sons have medical needs which means travel 2 hours to a doctor. Gas, Gas, Gas.... We are working on paying off credit debt (yes, the cards and closed and cut up and GONE) So to my question.... with the price of milk, eggs and everything else rising at the local, rural grocery store. Our budget is so tight due to the above things I have mentioned. We are determined to stick to our debt payoff plan BUT I almost have nothing left for groceries and clothing. Dear hubby, does not understand because he does not pay the bills. I am considering putting the younger children on WIC, just to help with the grocery bill. I struggle with this choice due to the fact that we have some luxuries (big house, camper) and I really feel like the program is for those who need it. If we could get rid of the camper then, we would be okay BUT like I said - hubby will NOT NOT sell the camper. It is his freedom when he can get away from his job. Sorry for rambling...just wanting to get out of this pit Tanya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Here is the situation: We just added on to our home. Of course, it increased our mortgage. (We started this all last year and just got things wrapped up before gas and everything else started skyrocketing.) We own a trailer camper. We have 7 children in the home, 4 are under the age of 5. My husband works LONG hours in agriculture at a local cooperative as a fert manager. My husband is NOT willing to move (with the market in our area our home would never sell) and he is NOT willing to sell the camper. Two of our sons have medical needs which means travel 2 hours to a doctor. Gas, Gas, Gas.... We are working on paying off credit debt (yes, the cards and closed and cut up and GONE) So to my question.... with the price of milk, eggs and everything else rising at the local, rural grocery store. Our budget is so tight due to the above things I have mentioned. We are determined to stick to our debt payoff plan BUT I almost have nothing left for groceries and clothing. Dear hubby, does not understand because he does not pay the bills. I am considering putting the younger children on WIC, just to help with the grocery bill. I struggle with this choice due to the fact that we have some luxuries (big house, camper) and I really feel like the program is for those who need it. If we could get rid of the camper then, we would be okay BUT like I said - hubby will NOT NOT sell the camper. It is his freedom when he can get away from his job. Sorry for rambling...just wanting to get out of this pit Tanya You would qualify for WIC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanya in KS Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Due to # of children and my hubby's income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I'd do it. WIC is not an entitlement program like welfare or food stamps. You can own your home, have a car, and have a relatively good income to qualify. There's no shame in WIC and if you qualify, take advantage of it being there for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. H. Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 We've done WIC, especially when dh was in law school, unable to work his first year, and we were living off of student loans and my minimum wage job. We're not on it anymore because food allergies means we can't eat a lot of the stuff WIC provides. I don't know if you know much about the program details, but here are some: If you are pregnant or breastfeeding, you can qualify for the entire pregnancy, plus 1 year of breastfeeding. At 1 year, they cut you off. The baby can qualify for formula if you use it, or will start to get baby cereal and juice at 6 months if you breastfeed exclusively. At one year old each child gets (per month): 4 gallons of milk 2 dozen eggs 36 oz. of approved cereal 2 lbs. of approved cheese 6 12 oz. cans of juice 1 lb. of dried beans 2 cans of evaporated milk This lasts until the child is 5 years old, at which time he/she become ineligible for the program. This might not seem like much at first glance, but it equals out to about $25 worth of groceries each trip, and if you have more than one child between the ages of 1-5, it can quickly add up. The only drawback to this program is that you can't be picky about having organic, hormone-free milk. If the government if offering it for free, they are going to choose the cheapest brands for everything, but if the choice was between being able to afford groceries or not, I would (and have) chosen feeding the kids every time. Fwiw, I have heard that there are some Christian circles that teach that it is a sin to accept government help of any kind, but in my opinion, getting my kids fed each month is more important than my pride about government programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey in TX Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 WIC is designed for this type of situation! Please consider using the program for your kiddos. They will be guaranteed some decent basics, and it will free your budget slightly. (hugs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_claire Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 If you qualify, go for it! That's what it's there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa in Jax Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Tanya, I'm sure I'll need a flame retardant suit when I post this, but I'm going to say it anyway. If you have the money to feed your family OR pay off debt, you should feed your family and work on paying off debt more slowly. IMHO, WIC ought to be reserved for those who have no other options. It's nice to be out of debt, but why should others pay for your groceries while you do it? I don't mean to sound unkind -- I only mean to say that it's my opinion that taxes from my family's paycheck (and all other taxpayers' checks) aren't meant to be used for families who have the ability to pay for the basics themselves. Your family made the choice to incur the credit card debts and home expansion. Those choices have caused you hardships to be sure, but they were your choices. It would be nice to keep the trailer. It would be nice to pay off debts. But b/c of choices you and your family made, it sounds like "nice" isn't possible right now. If keeping the trailer and/or pay more than the minimum on your debts means that someone else has to pay for your groceries, that doesn't seem fair to me. Please know that I'm not intending to sound unkind or judgemental. I'm only stating an opinion about the situation as I see it. I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes the truth *is* harsh. Just my two cents, Lisa FairTax supporter and flame-retardant suit wearer:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. H. Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I'm sure I'll need a flame retardant suit when I post this, but I'm going to say it anyway. I actually agree with what you are saying, and I don't think you said it in an unkind way at all. My issue with the whole thing is that her husband is refusing to sell the trailer to help with debt or groceries, and he is refusing to sell the house and move. In this situation, I would certainly do everything I could to make my husband see that he needed to help me come up with an idea that would help us either live on less or make more. However, if after all my efforts, my husband just refused to budge on anything financially, and that left me holding the bag to find a way to make the grocery budget stretch to feed 7 children, I would most definitely use this program, if for no other reason than to get my kids fed. Husbands don't always make the right choices, and we are sometimes left with less than stellar options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanya in KS Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 I agree with the one who flamed me that is why I am struggling with this decision so much. I know that we got ourselves into this situation. The home improvement went over budget, of course. My husband is not willing to sell the camper. He will not come to an understanding about the budget. We are making minuim payments on the credit debt. This will be a short term solution to help with the budget. I have no intention on staying on forever, I know that children can stay on until they are five. Just until I can make a balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana in OR Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I see nothing wrong with WIC in your situation. I do agree with the suggestion of paying off your debt more slowly in order to cover basic needs. However, when you remodeled your home you didn't know what was going to happen with gas prices, groceries, etc. If I were you, I wouldn't feel at all guilty about it. Also, it's not as if someone else would be denied WIC b/c you are using it. It can be a great help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I agree with the one who flamed me... Very gently, Tanya... I don't think anyone flamed you. Lisa offered a different opinion from the others, but I don't think she meant it to be harsh or cruel in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanya in KS Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 I did not take it as a flame. She claimed herself to be one so I simply addressed her the way that she addressed herself. I took her opinion to heart as I am with all the posts. I am glad for the opposing opinion as I am struggling with what is the best thing to do. I am simply weighing all my options and praying feverently about the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell in SC Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 "However, when you remodeled your home you didn't know what was going to happen with gas prices, groceries, etc." That is true, but you have to take that into consideration when you make a major purchase like this. When I purchased my home I could have spent another $70-$100k but then I would be living paycheck to paycheck. I chose instead to buy a cheaper home so that there was a little flex room in my budget. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for others groceries b/c they wanted to remodel. I would love to do a remodel (us that extra $$ we didn't spend on the house), but then americans would need to buy my groceries too. I wouldn't be able to do it in good conscience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Tanya, IMHO, WIC ought to be reserved for those who have no other options. Fortunately the guidelines are a little loser than that. 'no other options' could cover a huge range. What is an option to one might not be to the next person. Tanya, if you qualify for help to feed your children there is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting the help. I would definitely strongly ask your dh to sit down and see where the money is going and tell him that unless you get rid of the camper you will have to apply for WIC. If he still refuses, I don't see why you would even feel guilty about accepting help to feed your dc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 "However, when you remodeled your home you didn't know what was going to happen with gas prices, groceries, etc." That is true, but you have to take that into consideration when you make a major purchase like this. When I purchased my home I could have spent another $70-$100k but then I would be living paycheck to paycheck. I chose instead to buy a cheaper home so that there was a little flex room in my budget. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for others groceries b/c they wanted to remodel. I would love to do a remodel (us that extra $$ we didn't spend on the house), but then americans would need to buy my groceries too. I wouldn't be able to do it in good conscience. I think this is harsh. No one knows the future and things happen. And, I'm fairly sure they didn't go into this remodel with the idea that if cash is tight, they can always go on WIC. Programs like this are in place for temporary hard times. If her dh won't sell the extras they have, or agree to sell the home and move, what do you suggest she do? Not "You should have done..." but "This will help today...." She can't exactly sell their property w/o her dh's approval or knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianne Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Tanya, In theory I agree with the "flamer" that our tax dollars should not be used to pay for someones camper or house addition. It should really be for those in need. HOWEVER We all make mistakes. I am sure I am not alone when I say that I have made purchases that were more than what I intended. It sounds like you needed the house addition with a large amount of kids. And although I do not agree with your hubby about the camper, I understand the martial situation it puts you in. Here are a few thoughts: Have you put it to your hubby that if he does not sell the camper then you will have to take govn't assistance? when put so bluntly may be his "male pride" will kick in. (or not) Sometimes the best of husbands need things to be spelled out. Also - if you have exhausted other options then go on WIC until your situation improves. As long as you are striving to not be on WIC, then you are not a slacker who is abusing the system. It is design that way for a reason. I will pray that your situation improves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonia Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Agreeing with Lisa and shell. I think your dh is being unreasonable. If *he* is not willing to sell the camper, then *he* should be willing to work an extra job to provide the extra money needed to support *his* family. I'm sorry this sounds harsh, but there are many people truly struggling to make ends meet who *don't* have valuable assets to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Agreeing with Lisa and shell. I think your dh is being unreasonable. If *he* is not willing to sell the camper, then *he* should be willing to work an extra job to provide the extra money needed to support *his* family. I'm sorry this sounds harsh, but there are many people truly struggling to make ends meet who *don't* have valuable assets to sell. Ouch. She already said he works looong hours. I doubt there are enough hours in the day for another job. Besides, how do you suppose she go about forcing him to get another job OR sell the camper? I am shocked at some of these attitudes. The programs are available. If you qualify and need it why would anyone begrudge anyone getting milk and cheese and cereal to feed their kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicGyrl Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Well, I'm going to "flame the flamer" because she is way off base and her idea of what "help" is, is the exact reason why some refuse to get it and then children and families end up suffering because of it. WIC is NOT like Medicaid and food stamps. WIC isn't even associated with those two even if they are in the same office. The requirements for WIC are much different than those for Medicaid and Food stamps. We no longer qualify for WIC (kids too old), and we don't qualify for foodstamps, but we do for medicaid and quite frankly, I am extremely thankful we have it and insurance. We would not be able to afford ANY medical care for the kids without it. And to be honest with you, I've got a new house, and I feel we should be qualifying for foodstamps as well, because DH and my income just don't cut it sometimes. I DO understand and actually agree with "tired of my taxes paying for leeches on the system". But you are forgetting that even those leeches are paying taxes as well, so you are not the only one whose taxes are being dinged. To the OP, TAKE THE WIC and DO NOT feel guilty about it. I am so sick of others making people feel guilty for taking help when it is needed, just because someone has a car, or house, or nicer tv than you do. I've got all of those things too, but I still need the help and I can guarentee you that I didn't get those things while on this help, those things came before the help arrived--when we could afford it. When our country was not in a recession. When I had the money saved up for it. Not everyone is out to screw the system. Some of us really need it and to tell someone that they shouldn't take the help offered and available to them because you are tired of YOUR taxes supporting them, is really an insult. OP take the WIC and don't feel one bit guilty about it. Use it for as long as you need to. You obviously recognize that you need this extra help (through no fault of your own), so take it. Feed those babies. There is no shame in taking the help when needed. And it certainly is not a sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since you asked, no I don't think you should take WIC for the reasons others posted. In my opinion it's not whether you qualify but whether you should have been living on the edge to begin with -- adding on and having a camper. My husband I have to deny ourselves all the time. Surely if a little rise in gas and food is affecting you that much and surely if you were living on the edge so much that you chose to incur credit card debt AND add onto your house, better choices should have been made. Yes, we all pay taxes, but they are only so high because some people are taking out when they don't really need to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Oh, and let your husband take back over the paying of the bills. That may be the only way he will see things more clearly. Also, is there anything you can cut out of your spending? Things that are not necessary? I know many people who get rid of their landline phone and only use their cell phone (my very wealthy brother is one of these people LOL). Also, cable, if connected, could be disconnected. People really need very few clothes and most of these can be purchased at a thrift store. Youl could refuse to buy any junk food or beverages except milk for a while. A little here and a little there add up. The best thing to do is write down everything you spend your money on and track where it is going. Also, make sure you are making energy-wise choices with water and electricity coinsumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicGyrl Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since you asked, no I don't think you should take WIC for the reasons others posted. In my opinion it's not whether you qualify but whether you should have been living on the edge to begin with -- adding on and having a camper. My husband I have to deny ourselves all the time. Surely if a little rise in gas and food is affecting you that much and surely if you were living on the edge so much that you chose to incur credit card debt AND add onto your house, better choices should have been made. Yes, we all pay taxes, but they are only so high because some people are taking out when they don't really need to be. Oh how I so disagree with this and the implication that you are paying more in taxes because some of us are on welfare. No one can predict the future, no one. No one can accurately sit there and say "we shouldn't do this because this WILL happen". NO one. And your taxes are certainly NOT high because some people have to use welfare. That blame lies squarely on the shoulders of people you vote in to office. NOT the ones on welfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I did not take it as a flame. She claimed herself to be one... Actually, lol, she didn't -- she said she needed a "flame retardant suit" for fear that others would flame *her* for her dissenting opinion in the matter. :) I, for one, simply wish you peace in finding the right decision on this matter, and in coming to a reasonable understanding with your husband about how best to use resources for your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 If you have the money to feed your family OR pay off debt, you should feed your family and work on paying off debt more slowly. IMHO, WIC ought to be reserved for those who have no other options. It's nice to be out of debt, but why should others pay for your groceries while you do it? I don't mean to sound unkind -- I only mean to say that it's my opinion that taxes from my family's paycheck (and all other taxpayers' checks) aren't meant to be used for families who have the ability to pay for the basics themselves. I do think there's some truth to this, and I didn't take advantage of programs like this when I met the requirements for them because, frankly, my parents and ILs are/were helping to support us while we are/were in school. There was no way we were going to go hungry, no matter how low our income, and I thought it more appropriate to be supported and subsidized by willing and gracious family members than by taxpayers. And I've met people who abuse the system. Boy howdy. I surely have. :glare: However, there are different levels of assistance for a reason. The standards for WIC or state-assisted medical care are different than the standards for welfare checks or food stamps. And, to put it very bluntly, the government errs on the side of itself, not the poor. There are lots of provisions for "catching" people who don't "really" need the help (some of which exclude people who really, actually, do). (Just as an example, back when we were doing our masters and had no earned income, we didn't qualify for certain programs because we had our student loans in an interest-bearing checking acct. We made "too much" in interest, and the loans counted as savings. Nuts, right?) Anyway, generally, when you qualify for something, you probably really need it. And I don't think you should feel guilty about using it. But (yet another however), signing up for WIC does not and should not preclude trying to persuade OP's dh to make better financial decisions. So, OP, if I were you, yes, I would sign up for WIC. And I would keep trying to involve dh in the process, keep trying as gently as you need to and as firmly as your marriage can handle to help him make wiser financial decisions. Maybe he'll be willing to sell the camper if you agree to make repurchasing one a priority after you've cleared the debt. Maybe there are other things you can agree to together. Yes, selling the camper and downsizing the house is a "better" plan than going on WIC. But the only plan that will work is the one you can both agree to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Anyway, generally, when you qualify for something, you probably really need it. This is so untrue in many cases. The OP is one of those cases. We know people who sold their house to buy 20 acres of land and are now building a 4,000 square ft. house on it (this will be mortgaged). They are on Medicaid at times and VA's Famis health insurance most of the time. Because they have 8 children, though, they qualify. Meanwhile, we'll just stay in our sardine can 1,100 sq ft house and pay our own health insurance. And, yes, thankfully there is something there incase tragedy strikes us or anyone else, or for those who truly cannot afford to live -- but get rid of your ideas that you are entitled to something first just because someone else has it, trim your own spending, sell what you can and then see if you still need it. I do NOT look down on someone for taking it when they really need it. We have other friends whose husband bought a special piece of music equipment that cost $18,000, but they cannot afford health insurance either. And, they live in a 2500 sq ft house near the beach. So, they're on the system as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket1178 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I haven't read the other replies, but I don't think there is any shame in getting on the WIC program. I know many people who are in your situation and having to do this. Do what you have to do now, and later, when you are in a better position, maybe you can help someone else out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 at some of the punitive attitudes expressed here. So many "you made your bed and now you have to lie in it" and "if you hadn't made bad choices, such as I would never do" and similar. The OP has a working husband, and so they DO PAY TAXES. Perhaps they shouldn't have added on to their house, but if that was started before the current money crisis, then how could they know? We added on to our house at around the same time, and wow, we are hurting now. Not needing government assistance, but I only have one kid. So, should we have never added on to our house because even though back when we started DH made well over $100,000 per year, we didn't consult some crystal ball and see that his income would drastically and suddenly drop two years later? My guess is many of the people posting such critical statements, saying basically that "too bad, you were foolish and now you deserve to pay for it" could find themselves in similar dire straights easily enough. The OP does pay taxes, apparently does qualify for WIC, why on earth should she not feed those kids? If her DH is not being reasonable, really, what is she to do? Hold a gun to his head? Divorce him? It's so easy to be righteous and holier-than-though when it's not your *** on the line. I'd much rather have the taxes that I have to pay, regardless of this person being on WIC or not, go to feed an American family in need, than go to dropping bombs on other countries, assisting foreign countries that hate us anyway, going to benefit large corporations, or any of the many other things I don't like, but my taxes pay for. And now I'm off to the park. Michelle T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicGyrl Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I haven't checked, so if I haven't already been dinged for that, I will for this: This is so untrue in many cases. The OP is one of those cases. You have no right to tell the OP that they are not "one of those cases". If the OP truly feels that they need the assistance, then they need it. And then let WIC or the agency be the ones to tell them they are not "one of those cases". Your posts sounds an awful lot like you are jaded and angry that some are on the system for whatever reason, and "here I am paying everything off doing what I think is the right thing, why aren't they?" Firstly, how do you know "they" are not? How do you know (using me as an example) that I haven't done all that I can, sold all I can, and whatever else "all that I can" and the money is just not there and this WIC is my last hope/resort? How do you know for sure, that us being on medicaid is such a drain on the system? You do not. You have no idea what it is like to be humiliated beyond all end, by these people, just to get a bit of help. We pay for our insurance, we lose a lot of money every paycheck, to ensure we have insurance and it is still not enough to cover medical expenses. That's why Medicaid exists. And I feel NO SHAME in using it and neither should the OP feel any for getting on WIC when she clearly DOES need it. That she has a few "assets" you deem unnecessary, is not your business. And it certainly is not for you to tell her she shouldn't or doesn't have any right being on WIC when she has these assets either. Sometimes we just need the extra help, that's what it is there for and I'm going to use it if I need it. The OP needs it and should feel no shame asking for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIY-DY Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Our budget is so tight due to the above things I have mentioned. We are determined to stick to our debt payoff plan BUT I almost have nothing left for groceries and clothing. Dear hubby, does not understand because he does not pay the bills. I ask b/c this helped my DH *see* our budget much better than when I paid the bills and then told him where we stood. He's a smart guy, a hard worker, and a fantastic provider, but somewhere in the translation, it doesn't always click when I'm just passing along information. This got to be quite a sticking point with us, financially, and I was fairly frustrated. So, I set up a bill-paying date night w/ him. Just put on a pot of coffee, got some of his favorite snacks, lured him to the computer desk *grin* and broke out the bills. For him, actually seeing his paycheck in the account, and then watching the numbers dwindle so rapidly after I'd paid everything did the trick. It was much easier for him to make the less comfortable financial decisions at that point. It might help your DH really grasp your situation, as well. And, you never know, he may well have some insight into how to do things better, or see some place you all can cut back that you don't see when you're right in the thick of it, as you are. If you haven't tried that approach, I would recommend it. But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't apply for WIC in this situation. It's a personal conviction that I hold that this wouldn't be reason for me to apply. I would look at other things, such as lowering my ins. coverage, raising deductibles, consolidating debt to a lower rate, going hard-core beans and rice on my groceries, cutting out any and all luxuries (go dial-up vs. high speed or no internet, as needed; no cable; bare bones on the land line; no cell phones; sell off any and everything we did not absolutely need, including jewelry and additional vehicles, just as some examples... obviously, every situation would have different items). I would look into doing a work exchange at a food bank to supplement the food... basically, I would have to absolutely *know* that I had done everything in *my* power (and I do understand that your DH's calls are not within your power - believe me, I do get that!) to improve the situation and do what I needed to do before I could, in good conscience, apply to a gov't program in this situation. Obviously, this isn't how everyone feels, but that would be how I'd call it for our family. HTH, Dy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 This is so untrue in many cases. The OP is one of those cases. We know people who sold their house to buy 20 acres of land and are now building a 4,000 square ft. house on it (this will be mortgaged). They are on Medicaid at times and VA's Famis health insurance most of the time. Because they have 8 children, though, they qualify. Meanwhile, we'll just stay in our sardine can 1,100 sq ft house and pay our own health insurance. And, yes, thankfully there is something there incase tragedy strikes us or anyone else, or for those who truly cannot afford to live -- but get rid of your ideas that you are entitled to something first just because someone else has it, trim your own spending, sell what you can and then see if you still need it. I do NOT look down on someone for taking it when they really need it. We have other friends whose husband bought a special piece of music equipment that cost $18,000, but they cannot afford health insurance either. And, they live in a 2500 sq ft house near the beach. So, they're on the system as well. As I said, I've known people who abuse the system. I won't tell their stories here, because they're not mine to tell. But I know. I really do. The thing is, I know a. lot. more. people who are genuinely struggling, who deserve the attention and help of their community, and don't "qualify" for it. I pay my own insurance, too, and live in a small house, too. But I sure don't begrudge a family of ten for needing assistance with medical insurance. Holy carp, their medical insurance alone would be more than my annual salary around here. I just don't agree with the sentiment that the public should only help the destitute. Between destitution and mere discomfort, there can and should be a phase-out of assistance. Your friends don't qualify for welfare. They only qualify for medicaid sometimes. Other times they qualify for a lesser level of aid. That seems appropriate to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TX Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Get WIC and don't feel guilty about it! If you couldn't afford to homeschool would you feel guilty because you send your kids to public school and the government is paying for it? Would you refuse a government grant that would pay for your kid's college tuition? Taxpayer money is taxpayer money. We shouldn't put a stigma on some forms of government aid and not others. Also, IMNSHO, the income caps for WIC are very generous. One can easily be making what I consider a very good income and still qualify. And those who are already on food stamps qualify as well so it is not intended to be only for those with dire need. Susan in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saw Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I think you should take WIC in this situation. Then, if you feel you can/should/want to, when things are financially easier for you, "pay it back" -- not necessarily to the government but to a charity. Make it more of a loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I don't see any problem with getting help when needed on a temporary basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I think you should take WIC in this situation. Then, if you feel you can/should/want to, when things are financially easier for you, "pay it back" -- not necessarily to the government but to a charity. Make it more of a loan. This is what I was trying to say, but pressed submit before I gathered my thoughts. Hmmm it must be Friday.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonia Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 She already said he works looong hours. I doubt there are enough hours in the day for another job. Besides, how do you suppose she go about forcing him to get another job OR sell the camper? She can't. But she can throw that ball back into his court. "This is how much you make. This is how much we need. We are this much short. What are your plans for this shortfall?" He will come to realize that he is being unreasonable about keeping a camper when his family may go hungry, or he will find a way to earn extra money, or he will go to WIC and ask for help. If he's the one being obstinate, then he should be the one to figure out how to make it work. I seem to remember a similar thread on these boards awhile back when I was a lurker, when a regular on these boards had a similar problem. Her dh was also being obstinate about their financial situation. The majority of advice was "give it to him to solve. he is the provider, you are the mom." She did, and he figured it out. I'll bet Tanya's dh would, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonia Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 ... So many "you made your bed and now you have to lie in it" and "if you hadn't made bad choices, such as I would never do" and similar. Sounds to me like more people are saying "sell the camper, forget the debt-reduction for now." Yes, many, many people could get out of the debt they've incurred if the govt. would "take over" their bills for a little while. Unfortunately, we still have to provide shelter, food, and other necessities while we are paying off our debt. Why should a family be supported by the govt. because they have a debt-reduction plan they want to stick to, when thousands of other families across the nation are paying their way out of debt *and* supporting their families? AND why would someone keep something unnecessary for which they could get perhaps a few thousand dollars to support their children? Sorry, it just goes back to Tanya's dh being obstinate and unreasonable. If it were me, I would sell the d*mn camper myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volty Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Tanya, In theory I agree with the "flamer" that our tax dollars should not be used to pay for someones camper or house addition. It should really be for those in need. HOWEVER We all make mistakes. I am sure I am not alone when I say that I have made purchases that were more than what I intended. It sounds like you needed the house addition with a large amount of kids. And although I do not agree with your hubby about the camper, I understand the martial situation it puts you in. Here are a few thoughts: Have you put it to your hubby that if he does not sell the camper then you will have to take govn't assistance? when put so bluntly may be his "male pride" will kick in. (or not) Sometimes the best of husbands need things to be spelled out. Also - if you have exhausted other options then go on WIC until your situation improves. As long as you are striving to not be on WIC, then you are not a slacker who is abusing the system. It is design that way for a reason. I will pray that your situation improves. :iagree: Although we're only at one, I also want a large family, I love children. Seven would suit me well but I suspect we won't get there as "four and we'll see" is all I can get my dw to commit to. The thing is that I can afford a large family on my income. Or at least I beleive I can. I think when folks can't afford a large family, it's irresponsible to have so many kids and then ask the government to pay for them. But you know what, the family here seems to agree, the dh is working like carzy to support his family and the OP doesn't want the goverment assistance. And I respect that. But it looks like the plan didn't work. What I would recommend isto go ahead and take the assistance, you need it, it's designed for people like you. I don't think anyone would blame you. What happens though is when people are on public assistance, and continue to have kids, that's the point when most other taxpayers get really upset and the negative gossip starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelroper Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I can't possibly quote all that I feel the need, and so... If you are already feeling 'guilt', and you decide to take the WIC, will this go away?? Possible nagging stress. Take it as a short term plan, until a better solution presents itself?? We have needed assistance (long story) and never qualified (bizarre story), so I know that happens. We were able to get through our situation, but we had to prioritize and all "toys" (dh's term) were the first to go. Also, I've seen people using needed assistance, relying on it and then crashing and burning anyway because the program was pulled or had the qualifications change. With the economy as it is, that might be another thing to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy loves Bud Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I ask b/c this helped my DH *see* our budget much better than when I paid the bills and then told him where we stood. He's a smart guy, a hard worker, and a fantastic provider, but somewhere in the translation, it doesn't always click when I'm just passing along information. This got to be quite a sticking point with us, financially, and I was fairly frustrated. So, I set up a bill-paying date night w/ him. Just put on a pot of coffee, got some of his favorite snacks, lured him to the computer desk *grin* and broke out the bills. For him, actually seeing his paycheck in the account, and then watching the numbers dwindle so rapidly after I'd paid everything did the trick. It was much easier for him to make the less comfortable financial decisions at that point. It might help your DH really grasp your situation, as well. And, you never know, he may well have some insight into how to do things better, or see some place you all can cut back that you don't see when you're right in the thick of it, as you are. If you haven't tried that approach, I would recommend it. But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't apply for WIC in this situation. It's a personal conviction that I hold that this wouldn't be reason for me to apply. I would look at other things, such as lowering my ins. coverage, raising deductibles, consolidating debt to a lower rate, going hard-core beans and rice on my groceries, cutting out any and all luxuries (go dial-up vs. high speed or no internet, as needed; no cable; bare bones on the land line; no cell phones; sell off any and everything we did not absolutely need, including jewelry and additional vehicles, just as some examples... obviously, every situation would have different items). I would look into doing a work exchange at a food bank to supplement the food... basically, I would have to absolutely *know* that I had done everything in *my* power (and I do understand that your DH's calls are not within your power - believe me, I do get that!) to improve the situation and do what I needed to do before I could, in good conscience, apply to a gov't program in this situation. Obviously, this isn't how everyone feels, but that would be how I'd call it for our family. HTH, Dy I'm glad I read all the responses before I posted, because now I can just say, "What Dy said." Come to think of it, I can say that a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomofSeven Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Tanya, I'm sure I'll need a flame retardant suit when I post this, but I'm going to say it anyway. If you have the money to feed your family OR pay off debt, you should feed your family and work on paying off debt more slowly. IMHO, WIC ought to be reserved for those who have no other options. It's nice to be out of debt, but why should others pay for your groceries while you do it? I don't mean to sound unkind -- I only mean to say that it's my opinion that taxes from my family's paycheck (and all other taxpayers' checks) aren't meant to be used for families who have the ability to pay for the basics themselves. Your family made the choice to incur the credit card debts and home expansion. Those choices have caused you hardships to be sure, but they were your choices. It would be nice to keep the trailer. It would be nice to pay off debts. But b/c of choices you and your family made, it sounds like "nice" isn't possible right now. If keeping the trailer and/or pay more than the minimum on your debts means that someone else has to pay for your groceries, that doesn't seem fair to me. Please know that I'm not intending to sound unkind or judgemental. I'm only stating an opinion about the situation as I see it. I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes the truth *is* harsh. Just my two cents, Lisa FairTax supporter and flame-retardant suit wearer:grouphug: I'll take the flames for you, but I couldn't agree more. Tell your dh that we all need to make sacrifices and the trailor might need to be his. Better yet have him pay the bills for a few mos. so he can see for himself where the money goes. Blessings -Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 We've been blessed to be helped by churches in the past when dh had almost no income. After a few times of my dh picking up food he felt humiliated and started looking at alternative ways to create income. I also agree about setting your dh down and letting him see the shortfall, he needs to know. He needs to determine which is more important in his life, food for his family or a trailer sitting in the driveway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I will say that WIC is not that much help. You could get WIC and it would be something, but you and your dh still need to get the lines of communication open. We took it for a very short time after our third child was born. I did not return to work as my husband had already been hired by the fed. gov. and the income difference between the fed. gov. and the state gov. was significant. So we knew we could finally have me be an at home mom. Then it took longer than we expected for him to actually get his training and get started so the bills were the same but we had one income. Rather than send me back to work, leaving behind two preschoolers and a nursing infant, we took WIC to help over the rough spot. I think we got it for about 4 months. Then he got started with the new job and we were okay from that point on. It never occurred to me to feel guilty for a few gallons of milk, some cheese and some peanut butter. I just sort of thought the program was there for such a time as that. I'd have felt much guiltier about leaving those children. I don't feel guilty for driving on tax funded roads, and once I sent a kid to a tax funded school. I am letting state money help my daughter go to college and state money is going to help another earn some dual credits. I don't feel guilty about that. You are not thinking of a lifestyle of being supported by welfare, are you? Because I don't "hear" that in your post. Oh, one more idea. Do you have angelfood ministries in your area? I have not bought from them, but lots of people do. You might be able to stretch your food money a bit by using their services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Tanya, I'm so sorry. The stress on you must feel unbearable. I can see this from both sides and don't have a strong opinion either way, but if you qualify for WiC, you qualify. Almost everyone on WIC has something they could sell if they wanted to - an engagement ring, a tv. Something. And for most of them, it would just be a temporary fix. They would still need assistance in a year or a month. If you sold the camper, what would that change, really? Your children will just get more expensive. Is there anyway you could supplement your family income from the home? Or any parttime job that DH's schedule would allow. Anyway, I don't have any answers because these are hard issues and they are common. Sigh. (((((((((((Tanya)))))))))))))))))))))))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 [quote name=Michelle T;131903 The OP has a working husband' date=' and so they DO PAY TAXES. Michelle T[/quote] This came up before, when people were talking about taxes and refunds, and a couple of people have mentioned it in this thread. I just want to gently clarify that not everyone pays (income) taxes. It is quite possible, in fact likely, that the OP and her dh do not pay income taxes, as he does not have a high income, and they have many children. Many working families actually receive money each year when they file, because their credits (EIC, child credits) add up to more than they owe based on their income. I just think it's important when we talk about taxes that we are clear that not everyone is paying them. A pretty large percentage of people (30%?) pay no taxes at all. Wendi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finding_sanctuary Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Just over four years ago, my DH got laid off from his job. One week later, I had an emergency c-section. I was having a hard time recovering. Insurance would only cover so much of the hospital bills, and we already had debts on both sides from before our marriage (mine from student loans, his from unwise financial choices) We thought we'd be ok, but then the expected "next job" didn't come. His unemployment check made up less than 1/3 of his standard pay, not even close to 1/4 of what he made on his overtime jobs (which were most/all of them). It took 6 months for him to find work within 3 hours of home. In the meantime, we scrimped, we saved, we did what we could to stay afloat. Now, DH had a car. A Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder, to be exact, and it was his baby. He'd bought it after finally getting through a horrible divorce and more misery than he really deserved. It wasn't the wisest car purchase he could have made, but it meant something to him. He'd earned it, and worked hard to pay for it. And when it started having major engine trouble (requiring a replacement engine) just before the fateful layoff, he thought nothing of keeping it and saving the money to fix it. Then he got his pink slip, his job possibilities dried up to nil, and we could barely buy groceries. But he couldn't sell the car, he just couldn't. He was already depressed by being unable support his family as well as he felt it was his duty to do; asking him to give up the car he'd worked so hard for was a blow to his ego and identity. I went on WIC, and did so with no qualms. For the (very few) months we were on the program, it was our saving grace. Even the little money we saved in using it made a huge difference -- the difference between barely getting by (and sinking fast) and actually getting OUT of the mess we were in. Now, by the opinions of some here in this thread, I was wrong to accept WIC. I could have forced my DH to sell his car, thereby "saving" us from needing government assistance. I could have asked him to sell his swords and exotic weapons collection, every piece of which was irreplaceable. Instead, I went on WIC so I could give our family a little bit of healthy food that wasn't the result of a food-bills-debts-or-diapers? decision-making process, wherein the other categories were slighted to produce it. And we got out of the hole. He finally found a job, and worked his tail off. I finished out my year of school. We paid off the overwhelming medical bills. We got OUT, and all because I wasn't too proud to accept some milk and cheese without guilt. Now, 4 years later, we're doing well. We just bought a nice, reasonable house. In another 4 years, we will have paid it off, along with the rest of my student loans and our remaining debts. We'll have to work hard to get there (esp. with the uncertain economy), but we'll do it. Sometimes things don't always go as planned. You have a baby, then get a pink slip. You renovate your house, and then the economy bombs. Yes, sometimes you make your own bed, but is it really right to condemn someone for wanting a bit of help to get out of that bed and set things straight instead of suffering in it forever?? It doesn't sound like the OP is asking for a handout, but a hand up! Tanya, I hope you get this all figured out. Whether it's convincing your DH to sell the trailer, tightening your belts and your budgets and slogging through, or accepting the help WIC can offer, I wish you luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Tanya, I'm sure I'll need a flame retardant suit when I post this, but I'm going to say it anyway. If you have the money to feed your family OR pay off debt, you should feed your family and work on paying off debt more slowly. IMHO, WIC ought to be reserved for those who have no other options. It's nice to be out of debt, but why should others pay for your groceries while you do it? I don't mean to sound unkind -- I only mean to say that it's my opinion that taxes from my family's paycheck (and all other taxpayers' checks) aren't meant to be used for families who have the ability to pay for the basics themselves. Your family made the choice to incur the credit card debts and home expansion. Those choices have caused you hardships to be sure, but they were your choices. It would be nice to keep the trailer. It would be nice to pay off debts. But b/c of choices you and your family made, it sounds like "nice" isn't possible right now. If keeping the trailer and/or pay more than the minimum on your debts means that someone else has to pay for your groceries, that doesn't seem fair to me. Please know that I'm not intending to sound unkind or judgemental. I'm only stating an opinion about the situation as I see it. I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes the truth *is* harsh. Just my two cents, Lisa FairTax supporter and flame-retardant suit wearer:grouphug: Actually - if I'm not mistaken - WIC was started because we subsidize the farmers and needed to use the food. So - using it helps a farmer in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Hey if McDonald's can get $200,000 in corporate welfare so that they can advertise chicken nuggets overseas - what's a little egg, cheese, and milk for a family who pays the taxes that help support corporate welfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I just wonder how down and out a person would have to be for some of you to think it would be ok to accept government help. I mean...who do you think it is there for? It is all relative anyway. As someone said, (Sarah maybe) even the poorest among us are rich compared to the rest of the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I just think it's important when we talk about taxes that we are clear that not everyone is paying them. A pretty large percentage of people (30%?) pay no taxes at all. Wendi I wonder why you thought it important to point this out? If indeed that is true, that they meet IRS guidelines to not owe taxes....then maybe that is all the more reason they are in NEED of some temporary help. Someday the OP and her dh WILL be paying taxes even if they aren't now. The kids will grow up and leave home, the dh will earn more...who knows what will happen in their life that will change their circumstances. I don't hear that she wants to give up and park outside the welfare office forever. I hear that she has 7 children and they are having a really tough time making it and the one 'toy' they have she feels guilty about. I am sad that so many saw fit to further that guilt rather than tell her 'go feed your children in peace.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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