Rigorous elementary math curriculums

[Staceyshoe]

I posted a few days ago saying that we were switching from MUS to Saxon. Now I'm re-thinking that decision again. I know it works well for some families, but the bottom line is that I am just not comfortable with the scope and sequence of MUS. But I'm also concerned about the repetitiveness of Saxon.

 

Ds is extremely bright and learns quickly. He seems to be wired for math and science. What is/are considered the more rigorous math curriculum(s) in the elementary years? I think that might be a starting place for me to search and figure out what would be a good match for us.

[MissKNG]

:lurk5: I was actually going to make a poll about this!! But I will listen in here!!

 

ETA: We are going to complete Singapore EB this week. And I plan on trying Horizons K supplemented with Rod & Staff 1st grade beginning in March. DD's writing skills aren't great and I don't want to "push" her into 1st grade math so soon. With supplementing, I can "see" how she does with the 1st grade material.

Edited January 18, 2010 by MissKNG

[Jen500]

Singapore Math

[forty-two]

Another vote for Singapore Math, esp with Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems (or whatever comes out to replace CWP)

 

Also:

MEP maths, a free British program based on Hungarian math, very advanced, but provides scaffolding to help kids learn how to tackle difficult problems

CSMP, a free U.S. program that is very non-traditional; very rigorous if taught by a teacher who understands math

Miquon, promotes conceptual thinking and out of the box problem solving

[Aurelia]

We use Right Start and MEP, which are both pretty rigorous IMO.

[Staceyshoe]

I was looking at Singapore Math actually!:) It's good to get some votes for this. We had a failed attempt with Singapore before trying MUS. I think it was my fault because I accidentally just ordered the student textbook--no TM, workbook, intensive practice, or manipulatives. On the website, I don't see where it lists what is needed for each level. We would probably be starting with 1A, 1B, or 2A. What materials are needed at that level?

[Stacey in MA]

We switched my DS10 to Singapore when he was 6 for that exact reason - he could not tolerate the repetitiveness of all the other curriculums we tried. He's very engineer/math oriented in his thinking, and once he "gets it" it's done - he doesn't need tons of practice. It's worked for him since then, and we're on 6B presently.

 

My DD8 could NOT tolerate Singapore b/c it's lack of repetitiveness! So we switched to Saxon for her. At first it was a great match - she loved the succuessful feeling of correctly completing all of the work. FWIW - I don't usually do ALL of the scripted lesson - I just skim it, demonstrate the topics, and move on. We do a lesson on several lessons, once a week, and the rest of the week she flies solo on her worksheets. Sometimes the work IS too repetitive, and if she seems to be "getting it", I have her do only the front sides of the worksheets, skipping side B. This has worked well for us so far.

 

Singapore is definitely more rigorous though. And it requires more on the teachers part for understanding. I have had to use Home Instructor's Guide often, where they explain how/why the Singapore text worked out problems as they did. I would say this started as an issue somewhere around Sing. 5a/5b.

 

Anyway, hope that helps! Good luck.... finding the right match can be quite a journey!

[MissKNG]

We switched my DS10 to Singapore when he was 6 for that exact reason - he could not tolerate the repetitiveness of all the other curriculums we tried. He's very engineer/math oriented in his thinking, and once he "gets it" it's done - he doesn't need tons of practice. It's worked for him since then, and we're on 6B presently.

 

 

 

Not to hijack the thread (sorry!).... something I am having a problem with while using EB is that dd gets bored doing the "same" concept since it goes unit by unit. I've been rotating two units at a time once I figured out she was bored doing the same stuff. How do you get around that using a mastery program? That is why we are going to try spiral - to keep new stuff coming. I can easily skip the stuff she knows.

[Matryoshka]

We love Singapore here. We've used it all the way from EB to 6 - we'll be starting 6b next week. It's worked great for all 3 of my kids with their different strengths.

[PeterPan]

Stacey, just as an aside, do you know about the Cincinnati homeschool convention coming up in April? SWB and JW will be there, and of course there will be the vendor hall with all this stuff. On the math, your little one sounds very bright! You're hearing a lot of the good ones listed:

 

Singapore

RightStart (love this for A, B, and the first half of C)

Horizons (this would be good if you need more practice to go with the Singapore)

CSMP

MEP

 

There are other fine math programs, but they wouldn't be for what you're looking for. You want something engaging you can advance. I also suggest you go to the Art of Problem Solving website and read around there. They have good materials and helpful articles. In particular their article on the rush to calculus is interesting. They're not so much advocating slowing down as diversity and breadth. Once he can do about 4th gr math, he's ready to start bringing in those Math Olympiad books. Before then he might enjoy Primary Challenge Math by Zaccaro (I just sold mine!) or CWP (Challenging Word Problems) from Singapore math. Although CWP is currently oop, there may be some floating around with vendors. I've heard wind it's coming back in-print, but I don't keep up. In any case, CWP would definitely be worth your time to use in conjunction with whatever else you pick. I used BJU after RS with my dd, but she's not as advanced as your ds. It just creates a good, solid backdrop to work with, something we could combine with other more stimulating materials. So that always works. Horizons plus Singapore is a VERY popular combo to give that same effect.

[hsmom]

We love Horizons.

[Dinsfamily]

Not to hijack the thread (sorry!).... something I am having a problem with while using EB is that dd gets bored doing the "same" concept since it goes unit by unit. I've been rotating two units at a time once I figured out she was bored doing the same stuff. How do you get around that using a mastery program? That is why we are going to try spiral - to keep new stuff coming. I can easily skip the stuff she knows.

 

EB is very different than PM (so far...we're almost finished with 1B). I didn't like EB at all and neither did my ds. We abandoned it early on. PM has been perfect for both of us. The material in each unit builds upon itself and there is very little repetition of any one concept.

 

With that said, I love spiral of Horizons too, but I'm glad that I'm teaching it tandom with Singapore. I really just apply Singapore concepts to the Horizons exercises.

[Stacey in MA]

I agree with the other poster that I think EB is very different from the rest of the PM program. Don't completely judge the Singapore program from the EB workbooks. (I thought they were very lame! DD5 liked them OK, but went through them last year so quickly it was a joke....) I think EB is not actually put out by Singapore's Ministry of Education (as Primary Math is), but is possibly simply "endorsed" by them (??). So technically, it's not part of their program (if I remember correctly). ANYWAY....

 

I don't have a good answer for you except to do it "manually".... that is, you can skip things when they get boring and are mastered already. The only way to know when/where is to read ahead in the workbook/text, see what's next, and eliminate what you think DC doesn't need extra work on. A little more labor intensive than I like math to be - I prefer it "open and go". I have never had that problem with Singapore though. (Only Saxon) Since Singapore doesn't really spiral, each lesson/chapter/exercise is necessary, and there's no paring it down - it's already (mostly) bare bones.

 

HTH! Gl - Stacey

[melmichigan]

We use Singapore and EPGY. We don't use EB, we use the Essential Math instead at that stage. I would suggest you get the Home Educator's Guide (HIG).

[Whereneverever]

Another vote for Singapore. We tried Miquon and DD hated it, but Singapore's been a great fit. We get the workbook, the textbook and the HiG for each level.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

Singapore Math

 

:iagree:

[Crimson Wife]

RightStart (love this for A, B, and the first half of C)

 

:iagree:

My DD is on the last few lessons of RS C. I didn't use level A with her but just started her in B at 4 3/4 (she was already reading well) and went slowly. It took us about 13 months to finish B. Then we just did informal math for a few months as I was in my 3rd trimester. We started C this past March, took a few weeks' break in October to do level 1 of Hands-On Equations, and should finish this week or the beginning of next.

 

I loved, loved, loved RS B. It provided a solid foundation and the hands-on aspect was perfect for her at the time. Level C was just okay, and I've decided to switch to Singapore & MEP rather than continuing on with RS D. She's matured to the point where she'd rather just use pencil & paper rather than all the manipulatives. I've also gotten more confidence in my ability to teach math and no longer feel so intimidated by Singapore.

 

I'm planning to use the Activities for the AL Abacus to incorporate the RS way of thinking into my math instruction.

[swellmomma]

We are using MUS and horizons with my big kids, my 6yr old is using mus then horizons back and forth, though I am debating whether or not I will switch him to R&S math instead of MUS. just one of the many things I am pondering.

[my2boysteacher]

We made the switch from Saxon to Singapore this year. My boys were feeling overwhelmed with the number of problems and repetition of Saxon. After we made the switch, my oldest DS commented on how much harder Singapore is. What he meant, is that Singapore requires a lot more mental math. He wasn't used to 'thinking' while doing the Saxon, and therefore thought it was easy. He is very mathematically gifted, and I'm glad we made the switch when we did. Just my $.02!

[Staceyshoe]

Stacey, just as an aside, do you know about the Cincinnati homeschool convention coming up in April?

 

I'm hoping to be able to go, but I'm not sure the timing will work out. I will definitely check out the Art of Problem Solving website too. Thanks!

[lionfamily1999]

I would recommend looking at the standards of learning for your state. Write down the subjects that have to be covered and then borrow books from the library until you find ones that work.

 

I've had more success using a variety of different books that specialize in topics (fraction, geometry, measurements, etc). It lets ds go until he reaches his peak, rather than beating him over the head with the same material over and over.

[Corraleno]

I'd suggest Singapore or Math Mammoth.

 

I started with Singapore (bought the whole set, 1A-6B, HIGS & all), but didn't like constantly switching back and forth between the text and workbook. Also, some of the cognitive leaps were a bit large for one of my kids. Switched to Math Mammoth and I love everything about it. The approach is very similar to Singapore (including using the bar diagrams for word problems), and it's quite rigorous & challenging, but IMHO it explains concepts more clearly and explicitly.

 

I also love that it's all-in-one, with the "teaching" part fully integrated into the workbook part. It's very easy to schedule ~ divide the number of pages by the number of weeks you school, and that's how many pages/wk to schedule. It was designed specifically for homeschoolers, and the author is very accessible and helpful. It's also cheap! There are lots of free sample pages on the website, and you can see the scope & sequence by clicking on the Light Blue series books and looking at the TOCs.

http://www.mathmammoth.com/

 

Jackie

[*Jessica*]

Switched to Math Mammoth and I love everything about it. The approach is very similar to Singapore (including using the bar diagrams for word problems), and it's quite rigorous & challenging, but IMHO it explains concepts more clearly and explicitly.

Hijacking.

 

I was getting ready to buy Singapore, but I keep seeing references like the one above. I'm starting to think MM might be a better choice for us. We use MEP as our main math program, so I'm just looking for something to supplement with. Do I buy the Light Blue series? Thanks!

[Corraleno]

Hijacking.

 

I was getting ready to buy Singapore, but I keep seeing references like the one above. I'm starting to think MM might be a better choice for us. We use MEP as our main math program, so I'm just looking for something to supplement with. Do I buy the Light Blue series? Thanks!

 

The Light Blue books are a complete grade-level curriculum (e.g. 1A, 1B, 3A, 3B, etc) so they are the most comparable in format to the Singapore books, since they integrate all the topics that would normally be covered in that year (e.g. addition, subtraction, multiplication, place value, clock, money, measurement, etc). The Light Blue books are IMO the best choice for someone using MM as their main program.

 

If you are just using MM as a supplement, you could go with either the Light Blue or the Blue series. The Blue series are divided by topic (Multiplication, Fractions 1 & 2, Money, etc) and some of them cover several grade levels. So it depends on how you plan to supplement ~ will you be using Math Mamoth one or two days/wk as a change from MEP? Or just pulling out a few MM worksheets each week to complement what you're doing in MEP? Only using MM if your child struggles with a concept in MEP and/or needs extra practice?

 

Depending on how you want to use MM, you could buy the Light Blue book for the level your child is at (2A&B for example) or you could just buy the topical worktexts, either as a package or on an as-needed basis. The complete Blue Series package for grades 1-3 is only $40 (and I think you can get another 20% off using the code HSBC1419 at the Kagi checkout page). The Blue Series Grades 1-3 includes the following books (770 lesson pages total):

 

Addition 1

Subtraction 1

Add & Subtract 2-A

Add & Subtract 2-B

Add & Subtract 3

Place Value 1

Place Value 2

Place Value 3

Multiplication 1

Division 1

Clock

Measuring 1

Metric Measuring

Early Geometry

Money

Canadian Money

European Money

Introduction to Fractions

 

Link to the page with the package deals:

http://www.mathmammoth.com/packages.php

 

Jackie

[Sputterduck]

Singapore

[*Jessica*]

The Light Blue books are a complete grade-level curriculum (e.g. 1A, 1B, 3A, 3B, etc) so they are the most comparable in format to the Singapore books, since they integrate all the topics that would normally be covered in that year (e.g. addition, subtraction, multiplication, place value, clock, money, measurement, etc). The Light Blue books are IMO the best choice for someone using MM as their main program.

 

If you are just using MM as a supplement, you could go with either the Light Blue or the Blue series. The Blue series are divided by topic (Multiplication, Fractions 1 & 2, Money, etc) and some of them cover several grade levels. So it depends on how you plan to supplement ~ will you be using Math Mamoth one or two days/wk as a change from MEP? Or just pulling out a few MM worksheets each week to complement what you're doing in MEP? Only using MM if your child struggles with a concept in MEP and/or needs extra practice?

 

Depending on how you want to use MM, you could buy the Light Blue book for the level your child is at (2A&B for example) or you could just buy the topical worktexts, either as a package or on an as-needed basis. The complete Blue Series package for grades 1-3 is only $40 (and I think you can get another 20% off using the code HSBC1419 at the Kagi checkout page). The Blue Series Grades 1-3 includes the following books (770 lesson pages total):

 

Addition 1

Subtraction 1

Add & Subtract 2-A

Add & Subtract 2-B

Add & Subtract 3

Place Value 1

Place Value 2

Place Value 3

Multiplication 1

Division 1

Clock

Measuring 1

Metric Measuring

Early Geometry

Money

Canadian Money

European Money

Introduction to Fractions

 

Link to the page with the package deals:

http://www.mathmammoth.com/packages.php

 

Jackie

Thank you! I can buy the All Inclusive package (which contains all of the MM material she currently offers) for less than the price of 2 years of Singapore. Without your post I never would have noticed that, so many thanks! That way I will have both the Light Blue and Blue series so I can decide which way of supplementing would work for us. Or we may like it so much that we switch to MM as our main program and use MEP to supplement.

 

Is it silly that I'm super excited about this?! :lol:

[ondreeuh]

I agree that Singapore Math might be a good fit. Singapore teaches a topic at a time, and once in a while "summarizes" what you've covered so far to make sure they still know how to do it. I've often thought Singapore is well suited for a child who is very math intuitive and has a great long-term memory (once they learn it, they don't forget). My son easily learns math but does not retain it unless he practices it frequently. When I used Singapore, it was too much guesswork and hassle to build in supplementary review and I am much happier with a spiral program (first Horizons, then CLE). Now we work on measurement, for example, throughout the year instead of just a couple weeks like in Singapore.

[mcconnellboys]

I really like, and have always used, Singapore. I have friends with very mathy kids who used Miquon for elementary and really liked it, too. Life of Fred now has out great programming, too!