Why do people not like HSLDA?

[coffeefreak]

Oh, I know how they justify it. I just think it's a load of crap.

 

:iagree:

[Liz CA]

They act as a conservative lobbying group. They, IIRC, don't help non-Christian families. They don't represent people in the cases that most homeschoolers find themselves in (primarily custody battles).

 

 

We were members of an ISP at an umbrella school that required us to be members of HSLDA. We did so we could be part of the ISP and I never researched the organization beyond their obvious reason for existence.

 

I never knew that they do not represent non-Christians. I wonder how they determine who is worthy of their efforts?

We are no longer in the K-12 level so we are no longer members, however if the above statement is true, it bothers me. The membership is not exactly cheap. If someone pays their fee they should be able to expect assistance if necessary.

 

I am hoping there is some misunderstanding here...

 

[JustGin]

I am not a fan. This website explains some of the reasons why.

 

I don't like them representing themselves as the voice of homeschooling, but not recognizing that they only speak for a portion of homeschoolers in this country.

I don't like them mixing causes. I support some of theirs. I don't support others.

I don't like them representing themselves as legal insurance, but picking and choosing which cases to take. Also, they misrepresent their ability to defend cases. There are many states where they can only act in an advisory capacity due to the fact that the do not have attorneys who can practice in every state. And they don't necessarily pay for the attorney that one must hire in those cases. (How is that "insurance?")

I don't like their scare monger tactics. I think an informed and politically active populace is a better weapon against infringements upon the rights of homeschoolers than a big national organization working behind closed doors. I think that anyone who is interested in protecting their rights needs to meet face-to-face with their legislators so that they can see that we are real people, not who the media portrays us to be.

:iagree:Exactly!

[hornblower]

I guess I just see HSLDA Canada as being slightly different, but that could be because of my impressions of Paul Faris.

 

I really don't like how HSLDA Canada involved themselves in the spanking issue.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/lega-e/15ap-e.htm?Language=E&Parl=38&Ses=1&comm_id=11

 

http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/Com-e/lega-e/15mn-e.htm?Language=E&Parl=38&Ses=1&comm_id=11

 

This Canadian hs blogger outlined the concerns with HSLDA Canada very well:

http://www.ipsa-dixit.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

[Danestress]

IMHO, anyone who homeschools should be a member, even if she lives in a "good" state.

 

 

I don't understand why I should belong. If I need a lawyer, I want to pick out a person I am comfortable with. I don't want to sign up with an organization that will represent me without me actually interviewing the specific attorney.

 

Other than the possibility of needing legal representation, is there another reason you think everyone should belong?

[Sasha]

I'm a homeschooler and I'd never give HSLDA a dime. Nada. Not a cent. I don't support conservative organizations. I don't support those who are against gay marriage. I don't support "Christian values".

 

Nope.

 

Why on earth would I join an organization when the *only* thing I have in common with them is that my children aren't in public school?

[silvermine]

I don't really respect organizations who use the money they receive on issues not really related to their stated goals. Even if I agree with them. It's inappropriate.

 

Also, I've found in my own state, that our state organizations are often blindsided by HSLDA activities. They don't work well with our groups or understand the situation as well as the folks who live here, and I'm worried they'll just make tings worse for us sometimes! We have perfectly good *state* groups, thanks!

[Colleen in NS]

This Canadian hs blogger outlined the concerns with HSLDA Canada very well:

http://www.ipsa-dixit.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

 

Thanks for this link - it gives me some things to think about. Although, I am not sure I would interpret things quite the same way as the blogger did. But anyway, this is an interesting thread.

[Greta]

on other homeschooling boards I've participated in, people talk about how vital HSLDA membership is and pressure others to join. I rarely hear (or see) homeschoolers tell others which curriculum they should use in a manner that suggests the matter is not up for debate, but I frequently hear homeschoolers tell others they should be HSLDA members. I think that may be one reason for the strong reactions from those who aren't supporters.

 

When I first became interested in homeschooling and started trying to meet other homeschoolers, "you have to join HSLDA" was often the very first words out of their mouths. Sometimes I would have even asked a question about curriculum or a local convention, and instead of an answer, I'd get a diatribe about HSLDA. It frankly creeped me out.

 

But that's not the reason I didn't join. I didn't join because they make it clear that they are under no obligation to provide you with any actual services just because you paid the fee, so I really didn't see any point in forking over my husband's hard-earned money to them. Made more sense to save it in case I ever did need to hire a lawyer -- you know, one who actually WOULD represent us. That, and that I don't support their political agenda, really left me with no reason to join.

[Blessedfamily]

I don't really respect organizations who use the money they receive on issues not really related to their stated goals. Even if I agree with them. It's inappropriate.

 

........

 

I don't like it either. Personally, I'm conservative, but I don't want a homeschooling group getting into issues other than homeschooling on my behalf, so I pass.

[Joanne]

I belonged earlier in my homeschooling career. I was very relaxed back then and I might not have been a match for their curriculum standards.

 

Today, they would not help in the 2 areas that are most important, legally, to me:

 

1) Divorce/custody issues

 

2) Homeschooling children outside my family

[justamouse]

They don't represent my views in the least, but it's good to have a counselor on call just in case you ever need. I know that if I had to hire someone iot might just drain my bank account so ten bucks a month is nothing.

 

And when they send out alerts I get to call and tell my legislators I support it. :D

 

The delete key is your friend.

[Word Nerd]

They don't represent my views in the least, but it's good to have a counselor on call just in case you ever need. I know that if I had to hire someone iot might just drain my bank account so ten bucks a month is nothing.

 

And when they send out alerts I get to call and tell my legislators I support it. :D

 

The delete key is your friend.

 

You don't have to be a member to get their email alerts.

[justamouse]

You don't have to be a member to get their email alerts.

 

True, I let mine lapse and still got them.

 

And my post kinds was misleading-when they send out an alert to call your legislators say for voting against gay rights-I call my legislators and ask them to support gay rights.

[anissarobert]

Although the OP didn't ask why people like HSLDA, I feel the need to respond.

 

We are not your typical Christian homeschool family. In fact my dh is an atheist. We have been members of HSLDA for almost 10 years, and we have maintained our membership even during this past year while my dh has been unemployed. Our membership is one bill we don't mind paying every month.

 

They do speak for me most of the time, and in the rare instances when I don't agree I am thankful for all they do to keep homeschooling free. I can be a member of a group without personally agreeing with every position of that group.

 

Even if I never benefit directly from my membership, I know that the money I pay helps others and helps to promote causes I (usually) support. While I have never told a new homeschooler that they "have" to join, I usually do recommend that they do. Even though I live in a state with one of the best homeschool laws in the nation, my freedom to homeschool is threatened almost every legistative session. I am happy that HSLDA is helping to keep watch.

[radiobrain]

hmmm... one of the things that HSLDA does in our state is to tell it's members to give more info than is required in our rules and regs. So when someone chooses to go "minimally compliant" (which means that you only submit what the R&R require by law), the superintendent will often reject the paperwork and request/demand more info (I am talking isbn# on books, chapter summaries etc) using the "HSLDA approved" paperwork as justification. Then we need to get in drawn out arguments about what is required vs. what other people submit vs. any other number of things. It is a PITA. Luckily, my school district is not affected by this, but there are many that have problems every year.

 

How are they protecting HS rights, when they tell their members to do more than legally required? It is setting the stage for more stringent regulation. Again, how is that protecting our rights? It isn't. Also, if you follow the R&R of your state, you shouldn't ever need a lawyer. I have HSed for 6+ years and have never even had a single person ask me a thing about why my kids are home or not in school. I keep my excusal letter on me, and have all my paperwork in a notebook that I can easily retrieve, but not ONCE has it ever been necessary.

 

HSing is much more mainstream and therefore there is less of a need for legal representation.

 

vent over

[MIch elle]

We are not your typical Christian homeschool family. Our membership is one bill we don't mind paying every month.

 

They do speak for me most of the time, and in the rare instances when I don't agree I am thankful for all they do to keep homeschooling free. I can be a member of a group without personally agreeing with every position of that group.

 

Even if I never benefit directly from my membership, I know that the money I pay helps others and helps to promote causes I (usually) support. While I have never told a new homeschooler that they "have" to join, I usually do recommend that they do. Even though I live in a state with one of the best homeschool laws in the nation, my freedom to homeschool is threatened almost every legistative session. I am happy that HSLDA is helping to keep watch.

 

MOST homeschoolers I know would not describe themselves as a typical family.

 

HSDLA is about propaganda. They have led you to believe as they do. Your freedom to homeschool is not threatened.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

hmmm... one of the things that HSLDA does in our state is to tell it's members to give more info than is required in our rules and regs. So when someone chooses to go "minimally compliant" (which means that you only submit what the R&R require by law), the superintendent will often reject the paperwork and request/demand more info (I am talking isbn# on books, chapter summaries etc) using the "HSLDA approved" paperwork as justification. Then we need to get in drawn out arguments about what is required vs. what other people submit vs. any other number of things. It is a PITA. Luckily, my school district is not affected by this, but there are many that have problems every year.

 

How are they protecting HS rights, when they tell their members to do more than legally required? It is setting the stage for more stringent regulation. Again, how is that protecting our rights? It isn't. Also, if you follow the R&R of your state, you shouldn't ever need a lawyer. I have HSed for 6+ years and have never even had a single person ask me a thing about why my kids are home or not in school. I keep my excusal letter on me, and have all my paperwork in a notebook that I can easily retrieve, but not ONCE has it ever been necessary.

 

HSing is much more mainstream and therefore there is less of a need for legal representation.

 

vent over

 

Korin,

I homeschool in Ohio, and the forms I have from HSLDA specifically cover only what is required by law. There is no suggestion to even put ISBN #'s etc. on the form. Last year, several schools in our county were asking for more information on forms provided by the district (ss #'s, and grade levels), and HSLDA sent a letter that encouraged us NOT to provide that information, but only give what is legally required.

I guess I'm a little confused....

Leanna

[anissarobert]

MOST homeschoolers I know would not describe themselves as a typical family.

 

HSDLA is about propaganda. They have led you to believe as they do. Your freedom to homeschool is not threatened.

 

I work with our state homeschool group to lobby our state legislature. Nearly every year there are bills proposed that limit my rights. I call, write and visit legislators to prohibit these bills from passing. HSLDA works with my state group to keep us free. If you are not down in the trenches, you might miss the work that HSLDA does daily.

 

My right to homeschool without government oversight or involvement has indeed been threatened many times.

[Impish]

Was this the newer guy, Paul Faris? I've met him and talked with him, and he seems really gung ho about giving us support in the things that HSLDA gives support in. I'd be really puzzled if he was the one not communicating with you, because he was so pro-parent-as-decision-maker.

 

 

 

Where is this? I signed up for the Canadian HSLDA and I've never seen this. I think I saw a blurb about where you could get support brochures if just getting started homeschooling and you wanted help, but I've never had them tell me how to educate my kids.

 

 

 

Can you explain further? We signed up for Canadian HSLDA for the "just in case" factor, but the e-mails and publications we get from them mostly do seem to have to do with homeschooling.

 

I'm puzzled about the Canadian responses here...(fellow Canucks, not trying to knock any of you - just trying to understand your experiences here with Canada's HSLDA)

Yes, it was Paul I spoke to, and never heard back from once my money was in hand. In fact, when they called to find out why I wasn't renewing my membership, I was assured that someone would call back, as this was considered a 'grave concern'. Uh huh. That was weeks ago, and nobody's called.

 

Paul was deliberately deceptive. He told me that WCB could NOT interfere with our homeschooling, that it was a right, etc. Then, once he had my money, he informed me that it wasn't a right in Alberta, but an 'option'. He did absolutely NOTHING for me. On his request, I faxed in ALL my WCB correspondence. Never heard another word from him, or even anyone in his office. When I called, I was told that he was doing research for my case, and would be calling back. Nada.

 

I offered to file a Human Rights complaint, on the basis that we homeschool for religious reasons, and I felt that this was absolute infringing on our religious freedoms. Heard nothing. I renewed that offer when the person called about our membership. Still have heard nothing.

 

As long as I live in AB, I will never have another HSLDA membership. If we ended up in ON, QC, or the Maritimes, then I would, since hsing is such an issue in those provinces. Otherwise, forget it.

 

Paying money for a 'we MIGHT help you' isn't even insurance. Its a flat out gamble.

[Blessedfamily]

hmmm... one of the things that HSLDA does in our state is to tell it's members to give more info than is required in our rules and regs. So when someone chooses to go "minimally compliant" (which means that you only submit what the R&R require by law), the superintendent will often reject the paperwork and request/demand more info (I am talking isbn# on books, chapter summaries etc) using the "HSLDA approved" paperwork as justification. Then we need to get in drawn out arguments about what is required vs. what other people submit vs. any other number of things. It is a PITA. Luckily, my school district is not affected by this, but there are many that have problems every year.

 

How are they protecting HS rights, when they tell their members to do more than legally required? It is setting the stage for more stringent regulation. Again, how is that protecting our rights? It isn't. Also, if you follow the R&R of your state, you shouldn't ever need a lawyer. I have HSed for 6+ years and have never even had a single person ask me a thing about why my kids are home or not in school. I keep my excusal letter on me, and have all my paperwork in a notebook that I can easily retrieve, but not ONCE has it ever been necessary.

 

HSing is much more mainstream and therefore there is less of a need for legal representation.

 

vent over

 

 

 

Korin,

I homeschool in Ohio, and the forms I have from HSLDA specifically cover only what is required by law. There is no suggestion to even put ISBN #'s etc. on the form. Last year, several schools in our county were asking for more information on forms provided by the district (ss #'s, and grade levels), and HSLDA sent a letter that encouraged us NOT to provide that information, but only give what is legally required.

I guess I'm a little confused....

Leanna

 

I'm confused by the first post too. The HSLDA information I've seen is adamant about not giving anything more than what is required. They're often criticized for this by those who say it causes more scrutiny of your Notice Of Intent.

 

For instance, In VA we aren't legally bound to give DOB or grade or ssn, though many school systems' prepared NOIs ask for it, and some districts have (yes, recently) sent letters to parents demanding the info. Many parents give that information by choice.

 

HSLDA's website says not to give a DOB, grade, and certainly not a ssn. When Newport News sent all hs'ers a request for ss#s, HSLDA did handle that.

 

I still wouldn't join, because if the school division asked me for a dot more than is required, I know how to handle that myself. But really, the school board has been nothing but gracious to me and other homeschoolers here.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Blessedfamily

[WishboneDawn]

As long as I live in AB, I will never have another HSLDA membership. If we ended up in ON, QC, or the Maritimes, then I would, since hsing is such an issue in those provinces. Otherwise, forget it.

 

In Quebec maybe but otherwise I think homeschooling here in Nova Scotia is easier then Alberta. Same with PEI. On. and NB I'm not sure of but I've never heard much negative about them.

 

Here I register once a year and send in a one page report once a year. Easy peasy.

[Christy B]

I can't say that I "don't like" HSLDA. I just know that they don't represent my views. They are very politically conservative and politically active, often in ways that are only very tangentially related to homeschooling. I don't believe that they speak for me as a homeschooler on many issues, and I feel very safe homeschooling without their help.

 

I don't dislike HSLDA anymore than I "dislike" other groups that promote agendas that are more liberal or conservative (or just different) from what I believe. Everyone has a viewpoint. They just don't promote mine, and I don't want them to say that they represent homeschoolers generally, because they don't.

 

:iagree:

 

And Danestress said it so much more politely than I would have, so I'll just quote her from now on. ;)

[tdeveson]

They don't represent my views in the least, but it's good to have a counselor on call just in case you ever need. I know that if I had to hire someone iot might just drain my bank account so ten bucks a month is nothing.

 

And when they send out alerts I get to call and tell my legislators I support it. :D

 

The delete key is your friend.

 

You should probably read their notice and think about it critically before picking up the phone automatically. Three years ago, the State of Florida decided to make the K-12 online program available to homeschoolers. The HSLDA immediately sent out notices to everyone to call and stop that measure immediately. They riled up the masses to where people were foaming at the mouth here. Call your senator! Call your representative. This must not be allowed. How dare they!

 

I had people come up to me in tears because Florida was going to allow homeschoolers to participate in the online program. I had to sit a woman down and tell her to take a breath and think for a moment about what she was saying. She was nearly hysterical because the state was about to give her one more option. Naturally, their notices included requests for money so they could afford to help us all save ourselves from the State's tyranny.

 

Now if you didn't know who really funds the bulk of their budget you'd be a little befuddled. Guess what? It's funded by the big Christian curriculum publishers. Of course they didn't want the state providing FREE books and instruction to homeschoolers. Nice way to represent their members.

 

Obviously, the measure passed. (I wonder what they did with the money.)

 

But it gets better. A year ago, our legislation decided they didn't have the bucks, so they needed to cut back on K-12. Guess who sent a huge mass mailing full of gloom and doom, requesting money to fight (I still want to know what they did with the original money for fighting the program), and asking everyone to call our representatives and demand that they not cut a single dime from this much needed program.

 

Nobody does fear mongering like the HSLDA, and they will continue to do this and make a killing off the backs of homeschoolers everywhere. The reason I know this is because that same woman who was hysterical over Florida giving her a choice three years ago, also called me last year to remind me to call my representative. Sheep like that are very valuable to the HSLDA, and nobody knows how to shear them like they do.

Edited December 15, 2009 by tdeveson

[ConnieB]

This is what the HSLDF says:

 

 

Why HSLDA is Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

 

Parental rights are a recognized constitutional right despite the fact that they are not explicitly stated in the Constitution. It is a fair question to ask: if they are implied rights rather than explicit rights, what is the source of parental rights?

 

Here is what the Supreme Court said in 2000 in the case of Troxel v. Granville:

 

"Our jurisprudence historically has reflected Western civilization concepts of the family as a unit with broad parental authority over minor children. Our cases have consistently followed that course."

Thus, you can see that parental rights are based on "western civilization concepts of the family."

 

 

When those concepts are no longer the legal definition of the family in this nation, then the foundation upon which parental rights are based is completely removed.

 

In a world which widely embraces the notions of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, it is fanciful to believe that any other theory will arise to replace the traditions of western civilization as a basis for parental rights.

Therefore, HSLDA will continue to fight against same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage attacks the traditions of the family in western civilization. This is an attack on parental rights. This is a battle the homeschooling movement cannot afford to lose.

 

 

Well my dislike of them, or more accurately, distrust of them comes through loud and clear in the statement quoted above. Twist a political issue to make it what you want people to think you are protesting...when in reality they are a Christian organization vehemently opposed to homosexual anything....same sex marriage, adoption, even their very existence.

 

Of course, that's like homeschoolers who say that a day on the beach counts towards their physical ed credits even if the kids only suntanned, lol.

 

Or the argument to the book store that doesn't want to give a homeschool discount on the latest Henry Potter despite the homeschooler insisting it was for literary analysis.....or the low-carb cookbook was for home ec......or the comic book was because it's all her reluctant reader will read....and the list goes on.

 

I like the IDEA of HSLDA.....and in the early years it was much closer to the idea of representing homeschoolers in their fight to keep homeschooling legal. But over the years it has morphed into something that is barely recognizable.

 

Thankfully, I live in a state that's homeschool requirements are to sign/notarize a single page document when you start homeschooling and never again having to deal with the state. The "educational requirements" are simply to state the subjects we are supposed to cover. That's it.

 

Since my state is so easy I've never really looked around at alternatives, but even once in a while I hear about NHEN or something similiar. I'm on a cell phone right now so I can't look it up and still keep this page active, but if you are in a state that has a long list of requirements and you are worried about your rights you might look into alternatives like them. Be sure to investigate them thoroughly too....they may be just as politically motivated as HSLDA.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of homeschooling!

[tdeveson]

 

I like the IDEA of HSLDA.....

 

I do too. I'm hopeful that now that homeschooler demographics have changed from conservative Christians to mainstream families, that someone will come up with a good secular alternative. The work the HSLDA purports to do is valuable. What it actually does is promote the ultra-conservative Christian agenda of the leaders.

 

There are enough of us secular, even liberal, homeschoolers now that we can support an organization that more closely represents us. The HSLDA is definitely not it.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Nobody does fear mongering like the HSLDA, and they will continue to do this and make a killing off the backs of homeschoolers everywhere. The reason I know this is because that same woman who was hysterical over Florida giving her a choice three years ago, also called me last year to remind me to call my representative. Sheep like that are very valuable to the HSLDA, and nobody knows how to shear them like they do.

 

I agree with this totally. My state is an easy to homeschool state and they don't bother you at all. All of the examples of HSLDA help in my state is insane on their site and almost always involves a visit from cps. This seems odd to me. Since our state is so easy, I guess fear of cps is what keeps everyone enrolled here.

The co-op I attended shortly almost demanded you join HSLDA. I don't need them and I dealt with my first hiccup with the school system upon removing my oldest daughter this year without their help and even talked to a less than nice state employee. I don't need to pay someone good money for something that I can accomplish with tact and dignity.

They are very political and have a definite agenda that I don't agree with at all. Before actually starting to homeschool, I was a little nervous b/c of reading all of the "incidents" that HSLDA had helped with in my state.

[Peek a Boo]

I work with our state homeschool group to lobby our state legislature. Nearly every year there are bills proposed that limit my rights. I call, write and visit legislators to prohibit these bills from passing. HSLDA works with my state group to keep us free. If you are not down in the trenches, you might miss the work that HSLDA does daily.

 

My right to homeschool without government oversight or involvement has indeed been threatened many times.

 

ayup.

This whole line of "they are just fear-mongering" and "your right to homeschool is not threatened" is a line of bovine scatology. The NEA reiterates every year [THESE DAYS-- as in, CURRENTLY-- not in archaic times] in their official Resolutions that homeschooling is BAD for children. Their lobby is formidable and merely ONE example of a group that is more than happy to regulate the crap outta any educators for the sake of the children's "best interests."

 

 

When they represent themselves as being THE voice of homeschoolers to state, government and news agencies when they do NOT actually represent all HSers (ie. not HSing for a christian reason or style of Hsing... ) they are not promoting HS freedom. If they were promoting freedom, they would support unschoolers, relaxed hsers and others who do not follow their approved path of HSing.

 

That's the exact problem I have w/ NOW, League of Women Voters, and the NAACP. [just to name a couple] ;)

----------------------------------------------------------

 

also: after living in Syracuse, NY for 4.5 years, i certainly came across several instances where NO, it was not "good enough" for an individual homeschooler to simply write the same letter that HSLDA would write. Sometimes that name recognition IS a bit more effective. I still encourage homeschoolers to assert their rights themselves as much as they can, but some families need that extra hand-holding for various reasons, and that's ok.

 

I do remember it being HSLDA's recommendation to send in paperwork return receipt requested, but ya know what? That wasn't required by law! When a gal from the school district showed up at my door, I simply offered to re-send the info since I had it on my computer.

 

 

ftr, i am a pretty conservative Christian, but I refuse to join HSLDA. you can do a search for hslda threads and find my own opinion of why I would suggest someone join, but my own reasons for not joining are that I prefer to be a bit more independent and I'd rather spend that money on cokes and eating out ;). I am pretty confident in how I can handle any homeschooling issues. I would encourage others to join THSC in TX over HSLDA, but I'm not even a member of that group.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I do too. I'm hopeful that now that homeschooler demographics have changed from conservative Christians to mainstream families, that someone will come up with a good secular alternative. The work the HSLDA purports to do is valuable. What it actually does is promote the ultra-conservative Christian agenda of the leaders.

 

There are enough of us secular, even liberal, homeschoolers now that we can support an organization that more closely represents us. The HSLDA is definitely not it.

 

Well, I will never believe that a bunch of suits from out of state will ever be more effective than educated, informed and vocal constituents. Grassroots organizations within your own state are much more effective. They reflect the local values much more readily than a national organization coming in and pushing the locals out of the way (as has happened many times with HSLDA.)

[Peek a Boo]

Well, I will never believe that a bunch of suits from out of state will ever be more effective than educated, informed and vocal constituents.

 

except we have years of politics that show many instances where that IS effective. Welcome to the world of consultants and lawyers and professional lobbyists. ;)

[Guest BeautifulWorld]

Although the OP didn't ask why people like HSLDA, I feel the need to respond.

 

We are not your typical Christian homeschool family. In fact my dh is an atheist. We have been members of HSLDA for almost 10 years, and we have maintained our membership even during this past year while my dh has been unemployed. Our membership is one bill we don't mind paying every month.

 

They do speak for me most of the time, and in the rare instances when I don't agree I am thankful for all they do to keep homeschooling free. I can be a member of a group without personally agreeing with every position of that group.

 

Even if I never benefit directly from my membership, I know that the money I pay helps others and helps to promote causes I (usually) support. While I have never told a new homeschooler that they "have" to join, I usually do recommend that they do. Even though I live in a state with one of the best homeschool laws in the nation, my freedom to homeschool is threatened almost every legistative session. I am happy that HSLDA is helping to keep watch.

:iagree:

[Guest BeautifulWorld]

And often in ways that aren't remotely related to homeschooling (e.g., opposing same-sex marriage).

 

This is what the HSLDF says:

 

 

Why HSLDA is Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

 

Parental rights are a recognized constitutional right despite the fact that they are not explicitly stated in the Constitution. It is a fair question to ask: if they are implied rights rather than explicit rights, what is the source of parental rights?

 

Here is what the Supreme Court said in 2000 in the case of Troxel v. Granville:

 

"Our jurisprudence historically has reflected Western civilization concepts of the family as a unit with broad parental authority over minor children. Our cases have consistently followed that course."

Thus, you can see that parental rights are based on "western civilization concepts of the family."

 

 

When those concepts are no longer the legal definition of the family in this nation, then the foundation upon which parental rights are based is completely removed.

 

In a world which widely embraces the notions of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, it is fanciful to believe that any other theory will arise to replace the traditions of western civilization as a basis for parental rights.

Therefore, HSLDA will continue to fight against same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage attacks the traditions of the family in western civilization. This is an attack on parental rights. This is a battle the homeschooling movement cannot afford to lose.

 

This is absolutely related to homeschooling. According to the UN children should be free to think and believe and do pretty much as they wish. If you oppose gay marriage you are not considered to be a tolerant person. Maybe you aren't teaching gay rights to your children therefore you should put them in public school where they will learn plenty...

[ThatCyndiGirl]

This is absolutely related to homeschooling. According to the UN children should be free to think and believe and do pretty much as they wish. If you oppose gay marriage you are not considered to be a tolerant person. Maybe you aren't teaching gay rights to your children therefore you should put them in public school where they will learn plenty...

 

 

By this argument pretty much EVERY SINGLE ISSUE that the right-wingers (in our house "wrong wingers") fight is tangentially related to homeschooling.

 

I'm heterosexual and have NEVER had my marraige threatened by possible gay marraige. That is absurd. The people who make a mockery of marraige are the hetero's who get married over and over and over and over again and act like it means nothing, not gay couples who stay together for YEARS.

[Peek a Boo]

By this argument pretty much EVERY SINGLE ISSUE that the right-wingers (in our house "wrong wingers") fight is tangentially related to homeschooling.

 

and that's EXACTLY the way that HSLDA sees it.

I'm heterosexual and have NEVER had my marraige threatened by possible gay marraige. That is absurd. The people who make a mockery of marraige are the hetero's who get married over and over and over and over again and act like it means nothing, not gay couples who stay together for YEARS.

 

While I tend to agree that homosexuals being allowed to marry does NOT affect MY marriage, and that there is more than just homosexual marriages that mock marriage, the point of her post was not in those unions EXISTING, but in our right to teach ABOUT those issues.

 

and yes, according to a great many religious beliefs even homosexual couples who stay together for years are still mocking marriage in the very same way that heterosexual couples who get married over and over or in situations that do not honor God.

 

There are a couple of threads out there where the UNCRC is addressed in more detail.

[pqr]

I agree with this totally. My state is an easy to homeschool state and they don't bother you at all. ......Since our state is so easy,.....

 

 

This reminds me of a quote I have been working on with the children

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

-Pastor Martin Niemöller

I am not in any way drawing a comparison between those who oppose HSing and the Nazis nor the horror that Niemöller went through with what people in non-HS friendly states face. Nevertheless I found the idea that just because one's state is easy that there is no need for vigilance and no need to speak out to help fellow HSers in other states disturbing.

Opposing HSLDA for their stance on issues such as homosexual marriage is fine and defendable, opposing it because one lives in a safe HS state, or because one actually does not believe that there is a threat to our right to HS is well.....

[nmoira]

 

Opposing HSLDA for their stance on issues such as homosexual marriage is fine and defendable, opposing it because one lives in a safe HS state, or because one actually does not believe that there is a threat to our right to HS is well.....

You cherry-picked a quote from a post discussing HSLDA's fearmongering. OpenMinded said nothing about not needing to be mindful or vigilant. I think there's a valid point to be made that vigilance need need not be synonymous with paranoia. :rolleyes:

[pqr]

You cherry-picked a quote from a post discussing HSLDA's fearmongering. OpenMinded said nothing about not needing to be mindful or vigilant. I think there's a valid point to be made that vigilance need need not be synonymous with paranoia. :rolleyes:

 

 

You are correct that "vigilance need not be synonomus with paranoia" but the comments, and not only by Openminded, that indicate there are "no issues in my state" or "My state is an easy to homeschool state and they don't bother you at all" do indicate a viewpoint that present security will be permanent, that is my concern. There is also the undercurrent ,by some posters, that because I do not face this issue it is simply not my problem.

 

As to HSLDA and fearmongering, I suppose that depends on one's perspective and where one lives. To make a blanket statement about fearmongering is, to me, a little excessive. as there certainly are numerous cases of inteference by local and state gov't in HSing. As Peek, who has such a way with words, put it....

 

This whole line of "they are just fear-mongering" and "your right to homeschool is not threatened" is a line of bovine scatology. The NEA reiterates every year [THESE DAYS-- as in, CURRENTLY-- not in archaic times] in their official Resolutions that homeschooling is BAD for children. Their lobby is formidable and merely ONE example of a group that is more than happy to regulate the crap outta any educators for the sake of the children's "best interests."

Edited December 24, 2009 by pqr

[tdeveson]

By this argument pretty much EVERY SINGLE ISSUE that the right-wingers (in our house "wrong wingers") fight is tangentially related to homeschooling.

 

Just once I'd like someone to explain to me how my straight marriage is affected by two gay partners living together for 20 years, supporting and loving each other, and raising a family. I've been told many times that it is, but the persons have never been able to tell me exactly how that would happen. It's always some abstract fear of the "erosion" of marriage that can't be quantified or qualified.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

This reminds me of a quote I have been working on with the children

 

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

 

-Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

I am not in any way drawing a comparison between those who oppose HSing and the Nazis nor the horror that Niemöller went through with what people in non-HS friendly states face. Nevertheless I found the idea that just because one's state is easy that there is no need for vigilance and no need to speak out to help fellow HSers in other states disturbing.

 

Opposing HSLDA for their stance on issues such as homosexual marriage is fine and defendable, opposing it because one lives in a safe HS state, or because one actually does not believe that there is a threat to our right to HS is well.....

 

:banghead:

 

I was wondering how long this thread would get before someone invoked Godwin's Law. :rolleyes:

[pqr]

:banghead:

 

I was wondering how long this thread would get before someone invoked Godwin's Law. :rolleyes:

 

 

You may need to review the definition of Godwins law. It states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches" whereas I specifically stated that "I am not in any way drawing a comparison." I was using a quote and clearly attempted to remove it from any reference from Nazi Germany. I think you may have been beating your head for nothing.

[Trixie]

Just once I'd like someone to explain to me how my straight marriage is affected by two gay partners living together for 20 years, supporting and loving each other, and raising a family. I've been told many times that it is, but the persons have never been able to tell me exactly how that would happen. It's always some abstract fear of the "erosion" of marriage that can't be quantified or qualified.

 

<sigh> It's really very simple.

 

The Gays just don't know how to really commit to a partner like heteros do, and their example of promiscuity might lead you astray from the good influences. You know, like Tiger Woods. Or John Edwards. Or Britney Spears. or Bill Clinton. Or John Ensign. Or Raymond Jessop. Or Mark Sanford. Or Paul Stanley. Or David Vitter. You know, upstanding examples of real marriage.

[asta]

You may need to review the definition of Godwins law. It states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches" whereas I specifically stated that "I am not in any way drawing a comparison." I was using a quote and clearly attempted to remove it from any reference from Nazi Germany. I think you may have been beating your head for nothing.

 

Then perhaps you should have chosen a different example.

 

 

a

[pqr]

Then perhaps you should have chosen a different example.

 

 

a

 

 

Why? I clearly separated the quote from any accusations of Nazism and expected readers to be able to understand that. Was I mistaken?

 

How more clear can one be than to say "I am not in any way drawing a comparison ?"

 

My darling wife, when reading this series of posts, Godwin's Law and my use of the quote responded with "So What....if the shoe fits...."

Edited December 24, 2009 by pqr

[nmoira]

 

You may need to review the definition of Godwins law. It states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches" whereas I specifically stated that "I am not in any way drawing a comparison." I was using a quote and clearly attempted to remove it from any reference from Nazi Germany. I think you may have been beating your head for nothing.

So, with the exception of the comparison you were drawing, you were in no way drawing a comparison? Got it. Wink, wink.

[Trixie]

So, with the exception of the comparison you were drawing, you were in no way drawing a comparison? Got it. Wink, wink.

 

And, well, also if the shoe fits, you know ....

 

But no comparison intended.

 

:001_rolleyes:

[Mrs Mungo]

I find it ironic that the Niemoller quote is being used to defend HSLDA, considering how many times it's been used to defend gay rights. I also find it ironic that HSLDA claims to fight for "religious freedom" while attempting to take away the rights of another group because of religious beliefs.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I just have to say that I am amazed at this thread. I did not say that I turn a blind eye if my rights were opposed or the rights of others were questioned or violated. I said I homeschool in an easy state. I do. There are a lot harder states to homeschool in with a lot more requirements.

I do not believe that the HSLDA can do anything more for me as a homeschooler than I could do for myself by staying informed about what is going on in the govt. with regards to homeschooling. I do not believe in the many other things that HSLDA stands for besides homeschooling. I never said that I didn't care about homeschooling rights and what was going on. I do not care for the HSLDA and their tactics.

I do think they prey on fear. By the way, Hitler also preyed on fear. The fear that the Jews would make more money, have better jobs, and provide a better future for their children than the Germans could provide for their prodigy.

Also, the person who made the quote about Jews, do you know of anyone personally that lived during that time? I do and she taught me a lot. My Uncle's mother was German and my Uncle was born in Germany during the war to a German mother (on the black list) and an American military father. She said before her death that she saw changes in our country that reminded her of Germany before the war. While you put that you were not comparing it to Nazi Germany that is what you did by putting in the quote. I have never heard that quote before tonight. It did make me think. It made me think about my Uncle's Mother and the hardships that she went through because she didn't turn a blind eye during Nazi Germany.

I am not turning a blind eye to homeschooling issues. I don't like the way the HSLDA represents itself and the homeschooling issues in my state. I am really torn about what to write b/c while I realize you may not have intended the quote as it is written...it really feels as if by writing that I homeschool in an easy state which was taken out of context from what I originally wrote that I am comparable to a someone who would blindly stand by in Nazi Germany and watch as others are persecuted. It may not have been intended that way, but read the quote. It is powerful for a reason. It is meant to shame and guilt someone into feeling remorse for situations long gone that they had no power over or to make them feel as if they are standing by and watching persecutions occur.

It just so happens that I was close to a person who did know what it felt like not to stand by and watch those things happen. A person with integrity and honesty that saw many things in their life and lived to teach others what to stand up for and what to fight against.

So if you want to know why I don't support the HSLDA, it is because I did know someone that taught me that sometimes the power of fear can crush generations of people and their way of life.

Edited December 25, 2009 by OpenMinded

[Dana]

I just have to say that I am amazed at this thread. I did not say that I turn a blind eye if my rights were opposed or the rights of others were questioned or violated. I said I homeschool in an easy state. I do. There are a lot harder states to homeschool in with a lot more requirements.

I do not believe that the HSLDA can do anything more for me as a homeschooler than I could do for myself by staying informed about what is going on in the govt. with regards to homeschooling. I do not believe in the many other things that HSLDA stands for besides homeschooling. I never said that I didn't care about homeschooling rights and what was going on. I do not care for the HSLDA and their tactics.

I do think they prey on fear. By the way, Hitler also preyed on fear. The fear that the Jews would make more money, have better jobs, and provide a better future for their children than the Germans could provide for their prodigy.

Also, the person who made the quote about Jews, do you know of anyone personally that lived during that time? I do and she taught me a lot. My Uncle's mother was German and my Uncle was born in Germany during the war to a German mother (on the black list) and an American military father. She said before her death that she saw changes in our country that reminded her of Germany before the war. While you put that you were not comparing it to Nazi Germany that is what you did by putting in the quote. I have never heard that quote before tonight. It did make me think. It made me think about my Uncle's Mother and the hardships that she went through because she didn't turn a blind eye during Nazi Germany.

I am not turning a blind eye to homeschooling issues. I don't like the way the HSLDA represents itself and the homeschooling issues in my state. I am really torn about what to write b/c while I realize you may not have intended the quote as it is written...it really feels as if by writing that I homeschool in an easy state which was taken out of context from what I originally wrote that I am comparable to a someone who would blindly stand by in Nazi Germany and watch as others are persecuted. It may not have been intended that way, but read the quote. It is powerful for a reason. It is meant to shame and guilt someone into feeling remorse for situations long gone that they had no power over or to make them feel as if they are standing by and watching persecutions occur.

It just so happens that I was close to a person who did know what it felt like not to stand by and watch those things happen. A person with integrity and honesty that saw many things in their life and lived to teach others what to stand up for and what to fight against.

So if you want to know why I don't support the HSLDA, it is because I did know someone that taught me that sometimes the power of fear can crush generations of people and their way of life.

 

Very well said. Thank you for this post.

[Catherine]

As a tenth grader, she went to court to be allowed to attend high school. She no longer wanted to be homeschooled because she claimed her parents did not want her to get an education or have a career, but to marry young. Her parents would not permit her to attend school. HSLDA jumped in to defend the parent's rights to make decisions about their child and she was removed from school. I read about this case in a book I picked up at a university bookstore, a book for future educators. I was unable to find any information at all about the case on the internet, presumably because it has been sealed. The bottom line is, I DO believe that the state should step in for kids like this.

 

While I agree that parents should have the right to determine how their child is educated, it's scary to me that fundamentalist parents deny their girls educations and can legally get away with it. I could NEVER support an organization that stood for denying girls an education.

[Peek a Boo]

Just once I'd like someone to explain to me how my straight marriage is affected by two gay partners living together for 20 years, supporting and loving each other, and raising a family. I've been told many times that it is, but the persons have never been able to tell me exactly how that would happen. It's always some abstract fear of the "erosion" of marriage that can't be quantified or qualified.

 

yeah... and just once I'd like someone to explain how my not supporting an issue makes me phobic about it.