Insomnia in children. Has anyone dealt with this?

[Suzanne in ABQ]

My son is a night owl (can't imagine where he gets it). Usually, though, he'll settle in and go to sleep around 10 or so. Sometimes, though, he is simply too excited, or to worried, or has leg cramps, or just can't seem to turn his mind off. He tries lying still, he tries tossing and turning, he tries relaxation exercises, he tries forcing himself to sleep. He ends up crying because he's so tired, yet can't sleep. I've given him supplements (vitamins, minerals, omega-3s, probiotics, anti-fungals). I've limited his sugar intake. I've limited his screen time. Most of these things seem to help for awhile. But, within a couple weeks, he's having another sleepless episode (which means that *I'm* having a sleepless episode).

 

Any ideas? I'd be happy to share more information about exactly what we've tried. I'm just a bit sleepy last night (he woke me up at 2:30, crying in frustration). He got to sleep by about 3:00, but I didn't get back to sleep until after my dh got up to go to work (6:30am). I'm kind of groggy.

 

Thanks for any ideas,

Suzanne

[CalicoKat]

My insomniac is my 10 yo dd. I rarely see her asleep. She's up when I go to bed at 11:30 and she's already up and running before I get out of bed at 7 a.m.

 

It was hard for her to learn that someone doesn't have to be up all the time with her and there was a huge learning curve. She'd stand by my bedside with her nose almost touching mine in the complete dark --until I woke up with a start. Or she'd cough softly until I'd wake up. It was rough.

 

She has a room of her own. We set it up with things she can do at night, quietly until she's sleepy. She likes to draw so she's got a supply of art stuff. She listens to books on tapes. She's got a mp3 player too for this activity. And there's always a pile of books in her bed that she reads while she's waiting for sleep.

 

She only need about 4-5 hours a day of sleep. We tell her that it's a gift she doesn't need much. But to respect people who do.

 

I have chore cards for her to do in the a.m. She likes getting a 3x5 note with a list of things to do. Empty the dishwasher, feed the cat, dog, and rabbits, roomba the floor, make mom bfast & coffee. :)

 

You can't change the insomniac. But you do have to channel that extra energy in a positive way. No computer or TV time is allowed. I think she's respecting that.

[Rosie_0801]

I read on here that excess carbs can cause insomnia and I've noticed that trend too. I sleep just fine (baby permitting) if I've been eating properly, but if it has been one of those toast for every meal days, I'll be staring at the ceiling between 2 and 5.

The other thing you could try is a drop of majorum essential oil on each side of his pillow (so it'll be under his nose even if he turns over.) Some people swear by lavender oil, but that doesn't work for me.

 

Rosie

[Christy B]

Well, the leg cramps made me think magnesium deficiency (my dds and I all have issues with this) but you mentioned that you had already tried minerals, etc. We have had great results with a powdered magnesium, dissolved in juice.

 

Calms Forte for children has been a lifesaver for my youngest, who tended to have a lot of the same over-tired, miserable sessions as your little one.

 

Best wishes, I can sympathize both with you and your child!

[Plucky]

My son suffered from critical insomnia caused by anxiety. We tried calms forte, and some other herbs. None of it worked. After being diagnosed with ADHD (which was causing his anxiety) and getting on meds he settled right down. He was having a hard time turning his brain off and his anxiety would ratchet up irrationally. He only suffers from insomnia now when he is excited about a special event like summer camp or something.

[Jean in Newcastle]

leg cramps could be from a deficiency in potassium (have a banana), magnesium (drink "Calm" magnesium in hot water) or calcium (calcium pills).

 

Calms forte works well for ds12.

[msjones]

This will sound sort of strange, and overly simple, but it helped my son, and would be a quick and easy thing to try.

 

I got him a hot water bottle. He warmed it up before bed, and just loved how it helped him relax. My guy who had really struggled with insomnia was suddenly able to get to sleep. Maybe it's worth a try for your son, too.

 

Good luck with this. I know how very frustrating it can be.

[ElizabethB]

My daughter can sometimes take an hour or two to go to sleep. It used to really frustrate her, but I started letting her listen to "Adventures in Odyssey" when she's trying to fall asleep, that keeps her content.

 

We have a smaller place here in LA, they are sharing a room for the year we're here, now they both HAVE to have "Adventures in Odyssey" when they go to sleep, they've gotten so used to it! Luckily, the first time we realized this away from home, we were staying with Christian friends with young children who were able to help us out. Having learned our lesson, we now bring it when we travel overnight.

[Laura Corin]

How much exercise does he take? Calvin has needed a good half hour of running during the day to get to sleep at night. These days, it's closer to an hour of good exercise. On Wednesdays and Fridays he has between one and two hours of Taikwondo. Today he'll be running for half an hour, plus raking leaves, and going for a brisk hour-long walk with me.

 

Calvin is not a natural athlete but has come to recognise that he needs to push himself during the day to sleep at night.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[Lolly]

Yes. Mine is now 17. We tried everything everyone has suggested (other than the water bottle) plus a whole bunch more. Nothing works. She just doesn't sleep. Well, sometimes she does. Occasionally, she will sleep for days at a time, I mean over 48 hours only waking for bathroom breaks, a drink, and food. It took a long time for me to learn to let her go and allow her body to function on her own schedule. I fought her for years. At one point, I lay in front of her door and slept there to keep her in her room. Didn't work. She is quiet. I no longer worry about her wandering the house. She doesn't wake me up often anymore. (I am an exceptionally light sleeper.)

[Pippen]

I'd suggest having a sleep study done on him. I went through a period where I was dealing with Restless Leg Syndome and I felt much better when I was up and about or tossing and turning than when I was horizontal.

 

Kids often don't communicate the symptoms of RLS well. They just miss out on a lot of sleep they need.

[Cammie]

I'd suggest having a sleep study done on him. I went through a period where I was dealing with Restless Leg Syndome and I felt much better when I was up and about or tossing and turning than when I was horizontal.

 

Kids often don't communicate the symptoms of RLS well. They just miss out on a lot of sleep they need.

 

 

This is a VERY good idea. Contact your local university or medical school to see if you can find a sleep clinic or sleep study. You might be surprised at what you discover about what is going on with his brain/body during the nighttimes!!

[Snickerdoodle]

I read on here that excess carbs can cause insomnia and I've noticed that trend too.

Rosie

 

As a lifelong sufferer, I will say that limiting carbs has had the most impact. That's something I would have never believed if someone told me.

 

But with my little apple that didn't fall far from the tree I do the same as Elizabeth B. I have an ipod with audiobooks sitting on a speaker docking station in his room.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Thanks for the new ideas! I have tried some of them, but not all. I know he needs more exercise, but I haven't seen a correlation between the amount of exercise he gets and the ease with which he falls asleep. I have noticed that if he gets *too much* exercise (ie. jumping on a trampoline for 3 hours straight), he has leg pains. I don't believe he's deficient in minerals. I give him a supplement that is specifically designed for boys his age.

 

I've also seen a direct inverse relationship between his screen time and his ability to sleep.

 

He sometimes listens to Jim Weiss CDs, or Mister Henry, but they don't help him sleep. He listens all the way through, then comes up to see what I'm doing.

 

I don't know if the water bottle would help. He sleeps with his cat, who is as warm as any water bottle. I don't know though. At least a bottle wouldn't try to take over the whole bed! Maybe I'll try that.

 

I don't think it's carbs. He's hypoglycemic, and we keep a pretty strict watch on his carb/protein balance. I'll watch though, and see if there is a relationship to his day-to-day diet and sleep patterns.

 

It's nice to know that there are some children that just don't require as much sleep as others. He just gets so worked up. Sometimes I think he does go to sleep, but then he wakes up and is convinced that he hasn't slept at all. He then starts worrying about how tired he's going to be, and that we're going to have a bad day of school, and he gets more and more frustrated and scared. There's no way to fall asleep then. Poor kid. I hope he outgrows this thing, or figures it out soon.

 

Thanks for all your input!

[OrganicAnn]

I always thought my DD was a night owl. We started waking her up at the same time every morning and waking up early. We had to be very consistent with it. No more letting her sleep in order to make up the sleep missed. We change our heating system so the house is a little cooler. We used to keep her room warmer because she would lose her covers because she'd squirm at night. So now its cooler. And with the time change it is just naturally darker in her room. It really worked. We didn't really plan it. We knew she was sensitive to the light and had put up blackout curtains.

 

We've gone from spending a hour or an hour and half walking her back to her room. Dealing with the requests for a sip of water, an ice pack where she bumped her knee, etc. Now she goes to sleep easily.

 

So I can't sleep in on the weekends, but at least we don't have night time frustration of getting her to bed.

 

I don't think we were dealing with insomnia, but it could have developed into a problem. We had tried several books on sleeping with no success.

[KidsHappen]

We have three insomniacs in my family with a direct correlation between severity of symptoms and age. The youngest just needs little sleep and has a difficulty settling down and falling asleep. She can get an adequate amount for her with just a few adjustments though. She has a tv in her room but it goes off before bedtime. She is allowed to listen to white noise music or quiet music. She takes Benedryl at bedtime because she has exzema that cause pretty bad itching. And then she gets up early.

 

The 16 year old has horrible insomnia and always has. We tried everything under the sun with her without any luck and finally resorted to prescription sleep meds. These work most of the time but she still gets less than eight hours.

 

I also have terribly insomnia which developed late in life, probably about five years ago. Most nights I get two batches of sleep of about two or three hours, some nights I get two or three hours total and some nights I don't go to sleep at all. When my hubby is out of time, it's not a big deal. I just sleep less. Unfortunately, this usually ramps me up into a manic mood after awhile but I get a lot done that way. When my hubby is home, I take pretty heavy meds to sleep.

 

Some things I have found that help when I really need to sleep though is: tranquil sounds cd and earplugs, and eye mask and then cover my eye with a towel. Keep the temp fairly low (studies have shown that people sleep better in a cooler environment). I lock my door so no one can come in to disturb me and then put a sign on the outside of the door threaten life and limb if they knock and are not bleeding or the house burning down. I take vitamins, minerals (including a large amount of magnesium), fish oil, and acidophilus. I don't eat near bed time. I have found a certain amount of success with valerium, KAVA KAVA, GABA and Calmes Forte. Melatonin gives me bad dreams. Bendryl doesn't make me sleepy probably due to the fact that I take it regularly due to allergies. Nyquil does work though and I will take it in an emergency. I have also found deep meditations and progressive relaxation exercises somewhat helpful. If after a certain amount of time, I am not able to fall asleep I get up and usually read. I read with a flashlight so as not to create a lot of light which encourage your body to wake up. Also not a page turner. I have heard that a hot bath about two hours before bedtime helps.

 

This is a horrible problem and can cause other problems in life if not dealt with so please take it seriously. There is nothing worse that tossing and turning in bed all night and not being able to fall alseep. It causes muscle pain because your muscles are not able to relax and recooperate, probably does the same to your brain and immune system. It affects a person's ability to concentrate and maintain attention. If you are not able to work it out at least consult your family doctor.

[Cindyg]

I cannot say enough about Melatonin. It has been a godsend in our family. It absolutely SAVED my son.

 

He never slept from birth until about age six. All attempts to sleep involved hours of screaming and disorientation as he tried to fall asleep, as he startled awake all through the night, and as he woke in the morning.

 

When he was six, in desperation, I gave him a small dose of Melatonin "just once" on a night that I was home alone with him, and we had to be somewhere early in the morning. A half hour later, he was peacefully, deeply asleep. For the first time in his entire life. It was a miracle.

 

We've never missed a dose since. (He's 12 now.)

 

Melatonin doesn't work for everyone. But if it does work, you won't even believe how wonderful it is. Give your child a small dose one night and see if it works for him.

[Heather in OK]

For one who can't sleep due to the mind wandering (feeling like you can't turn your brain off), give Valerian.

 

One of my dd's has problems getting to sleep sometimes and Valerian does the trick. I've tried it a few times myself and it's great stuff! A few minutes after taking it that racing feeling in your brain slowly stops and you're able to drift off to sleep.

 

For RLS you might give chiropractic care a try. There is a specific technique that can help that.

[Laura Corin]

I have noticed that if he gets *too much* exercise (ie. jumping on a trampoline for 3 hours straight), he has leg pains.

 

I took Calvin to the doctor with pains around his knees. He explained that, during periods of growth, the bone and muscle/ligament/tendon development can get out of synch, and cause pains. This can be brought on by exercise. The doctor recommended icing and not worrying about it.

 

I find that the exercising does not always have a one-to-one effect on sleep, i.e, if Calvin fails to exercise one day, he will not necessarily fail to sleep that night. It's more that if he doesn't exercise every day that, in general, his sleeping will be worse - there seems to be a build up of lack-of-exercise that affects his sleeping.

 

Good luck,

 

Laura

[Pippen]

For RLS you might give chiropractic care a try. There is a specific technique that can help that.

 

I did get a little help from chiropractic but cutting caffiene out was the biggest help. I also found that sleeping with a weighted blanket helped enormously.

 

Suzanne, have you tried any of the sensory techniques: weighted blanket, mummy sleeping bag, changing to a harder or softer sleep surface, etc.?

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I did get a little help from chiropractic but cutting caffiene out was the biggest help. I also found that sleeping with a weighted blanket helped enormously.

 

Suzanne, have you tried any of the sensory techniques: weighted blanket, mummy sleeping bag, changing to a harder or softer sleep surface, etc.?

 

Thanks for responding.

He doesn't use caffeine. I haven't heard of these sensory techniques. But, you may be on to something. I wasn't home when he went to bed, but I checked on him. He was snoring away, lying on the floor! With two pillows. He had complained earlier that he hates when the pillow sinks into the mattress. He likes to sleep on the arm of the sofa because it supports his head better. Maybe he's on to something. Time will tell. Many things have seemed to work, but only for a week or two. I'll look into the weighted blanket. He doesn't like mummy bags because he feels too confined in them.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I bought Valerian, but haven't given it to him yet. I wasn't sure of the dosage. He's 12, but he's skinny. Only about 75 lbs. Is it possible to get too much? Do you know where I could find dosage information?

[Suzanne in ABQ]

We have three insomniacs in my family with a direct correlation between severity of symptoms and age. The youngest just needs little sleep and has a difficulty settling down and falling asleep. She can get an adequate amount for her with just a few adjustments though. She has a tv in her room but it goes off before bedtime. She is allowed to listen to white noise music or quiet music. She takes Benedryl at bedtime because she has exzema that cause pretty bad itching. And then she gets up early.

 

The 16 year old has horrible insomnia and always has. We tried everything under the sun with her without any luck and finally resorted to prescription sleep meds. These work most of the time but she still gets less than eight hours.

 

I also have terribly insomnia which developed late in life, probably about five years ago. Most nights I get two batches of sleep of about two or three hours, some nights I get two or three hours total and some nights I don't go to sleep at all. When my hubby is out of time, it's not a big deal. I just sleep less. Unfortunately, this usually ramps me up into a manic mood after awhile but I get a lot done that way. When my hubby is home, I take pretty heavy meds to sleep.

 

Some things I have found that help when I really need to sleep though is: tranquil sounds cd and earplugs, and eye mask and then cover my eye with a towel. Keep the temp fairly low (studies have shown that people sleep better in a cooler environment). I lock my door so no one can come in to disturb me and then put a sign on the outside of the door threaten life and limb if they knock and are not bleeding or the house burning down. I take vitamins, minerals (including a large amount of magnesium), fish oil, and acidophilus. I don't eat near bed time. I have found a certain amount of success with valerium, KAVA KAVA, GABA and Calmes Forte. Melatonin gives me bad dreams. Bendryl doesn't make me sleepy probably due to the fact that I take it regularly due to allergies. Nyquil does work though and I will take it in an emergency. I have also found deep meditations and progressive relaxation exercises somewhat helpful. If after a certain amount of time, I am not able to fall asleep I get up and usually read. I read with a flashlight so as not to create a lot of light which encourage your body to wake up. Also not a page turner. I have heard that a hot bath about two hours before bedtime helps.

 

This is a horrible problem and can cause other problems in life if not dealt with so please take it seriously. There is nothing worse that tossing and turning in bed all night and not being able to fall alseep. It causes muscle pain because your muscles are not able to relax and recooperate, probably does the same to your brain and immune system. It affects a person's ability to concentrate and maintain attention. If you are not able to work it out at least consult your family doctor.

 

 

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to respond with so many ideas.

 

I've thought of Benedryl or Dramamine, but I'm afraid to get him dependent on meds (even non-addictive ones) at such a young age. What'll he do in five or ten years when they stop working? Do you have these concerns? What do you think?

 

I'm sorry that you suffer so much with this! He took all those supplements (acidophilus, essential fatty acids, fish oil, vitamins, minerals, extra magnesium) all last year, and they really helped with his ability to focus on his schoolwork, and his writing endurance, and his ability to cope with frustrations during the day. They didn't seem to help with the sleep problems, though. I bought Valeriam, but haven't given it to him yet. I can't find information on the dosage I should try with a skinny (75lb) 12 year old boy. I haven't tried melatonin, and I only recently found out about Calm Forte (through this thread). I'm going to go to the vitamin store tomorrow and ask them what they have.

 

Again, thanks for the ideas. Tonight he didn't have trouble (slept on the floor with two pillows). Last night was terrible! Sunday night was really bad too. Ugh. I will take it seriously because when he doesn't sleep, I don't sleep!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have sleep problems that seem to be helped by taking guaifenisen syrup (Robutussion or Mucinex). It isn't addictive and is pretty safe. The reason the Dr. thinks it helps me is that I might have airway problems when I sleep. I just thought of this when you mentioned about wanting the hard floor or the arm of an armchair (I often sleep part of the night in an armchair). And if you meant literal snoring, that would also be a sign of possible airway problems.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I have sleep problems that seem to be helped by taking guaifenisen syrup (Robutussion or Mucinex). It isn't addictive and is pretty safe. The reason the Dr. thinks it helps me is that I might have airway problems when I sleep. I just thought of this when you mentioned about wanting the hard floor or the arm of an armchair (I often sleep part of the night in an armchair). And if you meant literal snoring, that would also be a sign of possible airway problems.

 

 

Thanks, Jean, for continuing to watch this thread! I'm always amazed at the concern people show on this board! Anyway, I wish guaifenisen syrups tasted better. Ds runs away when I pull them out for a cough. I don't think I'd be able to get him to take them. Plus, I'm really wanting to avoid using any kind of sleep aid medication because they always become less effective over time, and I'm afraid I'd be setting him up for a lifetime dependence on them.

 

And, he doesn't normally snore. He was snoring last night, but I think it was because of his head position, up so high on those two pillows. I checked him later and he wasn't snoring anymore.

 

Thanks for the continuing thoughts, though.

Blessings,

Suzanne

[Only me]

I wish I could help you but we are dealing with the same problem with my 14 year old daughter. She has been suffering from severe insomnia for about 1 1/2 years now. We have gone to several doctors (sleep specialist, neurologist, endocrinologist, psychiatrist, ENT specialist, etc.) No one has been able to help her. We have tried everything to help her (numerous sleep medications, herbal remedies, and common sense things such as getting more exercise, no TV before bed, etc.).

 

We finally found a chiropractic neurologist who we hope has finally come up with the problem. We just found out that she is gluten intolerant. Even though she has no other symptoms (intestinal, etc.) if you are gluten intolerant it can really mess you up neurologically. In my daughter's case the doctor feels that has messed up the area in her brain which controls sleep and has also messed up her cortisol and melatonin levels and even her blood sugar levels. She has been GF for a month and so far her insomnia hasn't improved but the doctor really has hope that it will. Ironically I just found out that my cousin's daughter had very similar problems when she was a teen. They thought she had all sorts of diseases (Lupus, Addison's) and then they finally found out she was gluten intolerant. Staying off the gluten cured her insomnia. She is an adult now but if she ever eats anything with gluten she has insomnia that night.

 

I just wanted to mention this to you in case you can't find anything else to help. You might want to check to make sure he isn't sensitive to gluten.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Thanks. I hadn't even considered gluten. I can't even imagine life without wheat, so it's a disturbing possibility for me, but it might help ds it would be worth an investigation. Thanks for sharing!

[dsmith]

I cannot say enough about Melatonin. It has been a godsend in our family. It absolutely SAVED my son.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My son was up until 2am before Melatonin. He also didn't want to be alone, which meant I was up also. It was causing alot of family problems. I started giving him 1/4 tab at night, and it has been wonderful!

 

My niece had a problem with sleeping, and it ended up being restless leg caused by an iron deficiency. It took about a year of iron supplements to straighten it out, but she is much better with sleeping now.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My son was up until 2am before Melatonin. He also didn't want to be alone, which meant I was up also. It was causing alot of family problems. I started giving him 1/4 tab at night, and it has been wonderful!

 

My niece had a problem with sleeping, and it ended up being restless leg caused by an iron deficiency. It took about a year of iron supplements to straighten it out, but she is much better with sleeping now.

 

Thanks so much for the iron idea. I hadn't thought of that before. He does get restless and moves around a lot, but I don't know if it would be RLS. I wouldn't have considered iron, though, only mag, cal, and potassium.

 

I'm going to pick up some melatonin today. I hope it helps.