Abortion Addiction to homeschool mom

[mommyoftwinboys]

Thank you for writing I have a good heart. I actually had a very black, sinful heart but last year I had some of my darkest moments in my life and truely God came and saved me. Someday, I will share my testimony and I did a bit on my blog. What it has taught me is that I want to live to serve the Lord. I don't really know how to do that because I don't believe(until last year) I was ever at that point where I really understood God's grace and mercy. It taught me to never judge(even though I struggle with it daily-I think we all do) and I want to live to serve him...even if I don't know how to do that..that's why I ask so many Christian questions. I'm searching for answers...I want to please him because of what he's done for me. That's why I feel so much compassion for this woman. I'm sure she is tormented inside(whatever other's may believe) I'm sure she is searching for answers as to why she has done what she has done. No one wishes to be evil, we just are...

[PineFarmMom]

I pray for this woman-I hope she has repented and asked for forgiveness. And forgive me if I'm not *Christian* enough or don't understand the Bible completely and am teaching my children wrong, but I believe if she is truely sorry and has asked for forgiveness and has repented, she will be in heaven ...am I wrong?

I will not add anymore to this thread in a negative way..blessings...

 

Personally, I don't and won't ever know if she asked forgiveness. I didn't get a sense that she was calling the whole thing wrong, from reading the article, but it was my take If I offended you, I am sorry. I am not sorry for calling it what it is, though. The only thing I can see that I might have said wrong was: "That's lovely." I really find it very offensive that someone would choose to do that to all those children, all of those blessings that Jesus said, "What you do to the least of these you do to me." I don't see anything different in hitting the nail on the head with calling it what it was and what I see on here by anyone else when they call something wrong or right. I also don't see anything at all wrong with being highly offended and bothered that someone would 1) do something so horrible to so many babies, and 2) write a book to make $$ off of it.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Texas T

[Plucky]

Perhaps more than judging this woman and posting highly charged opinions about her on public message boards, we could pray for her as we pray for our own selves. "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" -- and as we pray that for ourselves (God knows I have to pray that hundreds of times a day), we can include *her* in this prayer as we pray -- "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on US." Another blessed prayer I have learned of late is "God, on the dread day of judgment, please do not condemn [her] for my sake." I do think we ought to purpose as Christians to learn to live in this life without judging others; I know I certainly have enough in myself that needs correcting to focus on without making public statements about the sins of others. Forgive if I have misspoken.

 

Thank you. I think though if we stop talking about things and not speaking about truths then these things become acceptable to people and society. I think speaking about it has value, even on a message board.

[milovany]

Thank you. I think though if we stop talking about things and not speaking about truths then these things become acceptable to people and society. I think speaking about it has value, even on a message board.

 

I don't know if it has been your experience, but it has been mine -- having been involved in dozens of "highly charged" discussions" such as this one -- that no one is changed by them. People just share their widely-divergent opinions and then defend them when they are questioned. This is common human nature to do so and I know I have walked this road. So I don't know that this is really the best way to see society changed and to keep what is questionable practice from becoming common and acceptable. I would propose that people humbly focusing on their own need for healing before the Lord, and praying for themselves and others, would go much further.

[Plucky]

I don't know if it has been your experience, but it has been mine -- having been involved in dozens of "highly charged" discussions" such as this one -- that no one is changed by them. People just share their widely-divergent opinions and then defend them when they are questioned. This is common human nature to do so and I know I have walked this road. So I don't know that this is really the best way to see society changed and to keep what is questionable practice from becoming common and acceptable. I would propose that people humbly focusing on their own need for healing before the Lord, and praying for themselves and others, would go much further.

 

 

No, my views have been altered by discussions on message boards. I've learned a lot from people. In this case, we'll have to disagree. I don't think remaining silent is a good thing.

[PineFarmMom]

No, my views have been altered by discussions on message boards. I've learned a lot from people. In this case, we'll have to disagree. I don't think remaining silent is a good thing.

 

There are times the Lord has led me to shut up and pray about something while He handled it. There are times those prayers have led to me speaking. I don't think it's an either/or. I think sometimes I'm to shut up and pray continuously while He has someone else put the legs to that prayer.

[Plucky]

There are times the Lord has led me to shut up and pray about something while He handled it. There are times those prayers have led to me speaking. I don't think it's an either/or. I think sometimes I'm to shut up and pray continuously while He has someone else put the legs to that prayer.

 

Exactly! :iagree:

[milovany]

I also don't see anything at all wrong with being highly offended and bothered that someone would 1) do something so horrible to so many babies, and 2) write a book to make $$ off of it.

 

You're presuming to know some things here that have not been revealed. We do not know the depths of why she made such choices, and we do not know that her motivation for writing the book was to make money. Certainly it could be just as possible that 1) She deeply regrets having made the choices she did, and recognizes the harm that was done and 2) Wants to help others by telling her story.

[Plucky]

You're presuming to know some things here that have not been revealed. We do not know the depths of why she made such choices, and we do not know that her motivation for writing the book was to make money. Certainly it could be just as possible that 1) She deeply regrets having made the choices she did, and recognizes the harm that was done and 2) Wants to help others by telling her story.

 

I think this kind of thinking is rewarding her for her poor choices. So you think no one should judge her at all? In fact, you are defending her. :confused:

[mirth]

Best of luck to her.

Edited November 2, 2009 by mirth
I edited something and erased/lost it by mistake. Must be fate.

[milovany]

I think this kind of thinking is rewarding her for her poor choices. So you think no one should judge her at all? In fact, you are defending her. :confused:

 

I am saying, and have said, that I think it is very sad; but I'm just as sad for her as I am for the results of the choices she made. She, like all of us, needs healing from God.

[AuntPol]

I stand by the post I wrote above.

 

 

Well, I sure as heck doubt he'd be wandering around a message board calling a sick woman a serial killer.

 

 

 

 

She is a serial killer. That is a fact, not a judgement. She killed multiple people on purpose. This was not "OMG I'm pregant and don't know to do" or "My birth control failed" or "The baby is deformed" or "I was raped" or "My life is at stake". It was done for evil intentions. This was conceiving with intent to kill for the pleasure of killing. She is only able to walk around in freedom because our society decided that this type of murder is perfecly legal.

 

Yes, she is sick too but then I don't know of any serial killer who wasn't sick in some shape or form. Somehow, I don't think many people would go around saying "Thou shall not judge" if we were discussing John Wayne Gacy or Henry Lee Lucas or other people who killed multiple people.

 

Then again saying she is sick is a judgement. She did a perfectly legal action 15 times.

[Plucky]

She is a serial killer. That is a fact, not a judgement. She killed multiple people on purpose. This was not "OMG I'm pregant and don't know to do" or "My birth control failed" or "The baby is deformed" or "I was raped" or "My life is at stake". It was done for evil intentions. This was conceiving with intent to kill for the pleasure of killing. She is only able to walk around in freedom because our society decided that this type of murder is perfecly legal.

 

Yes, she is sick too but then I don't know of any serial killer who wasn't sick in some shape or form. Somehow, I don't think many people would go around saying "Thou shall not judge" if we were discussing John Wayne Gacy or Henry Lee Lucas or other people who killed multiple people.

 

Then again saying she is sick is a judgement. She did a perfectly legal action 15 times.

 

Exactly. It is not the same thing as one finding themselves pregnant and having an abortion. I'm pro-life, but I do think there is a difference.

[lionfamily1999]

That I can agree with you on..totally...in the way it was said, no.

I think he would have morned for them as well as for her. I think he would also mourn and be sad for the tone of that post...just my opinion..

I agree with you, that Jesus would (and probably has, and probably will) weep for this woman. I think the jump to calling T's post judgemental was a little hasty, imo (lest anyone think otherwise :p ). If you agree that abortion is murder (I know not everyone does), then this woman would've murdered multiple times. The fact that she plotted these murders (planned to get pregnant in order to have another abortion) and the sheer number of abortions would make her, at least in my understanding of the word, a serial killer. She killed for the rush, she killed so she could play God, she killed for all the reasons I have read attributed to serial killers.

 

:grouphug:

 

I do not have a gift for spiritual discernment, I can't read this woman's heart. I will say that the book, for whatever reasons she may have for writing it, is going to garner her quite a negative reaction. I would've thought she'd expected that. The surprise they, this woman and her husband, mention floors me.

 

Now, had T said, she should burn for eternity, or had she mentioned something along those lines, that would be judgement. I didn't see where she mentioned that.

 

Of course, I'm not a scholar, I could be all kinds of wrong ;)

I pray for this woman-I hope she has repented and asked for forgiveness. And forgive me if I'm not *Christian* enough or don't understand the Bible completely and am teaching my children wrong, but I believe if she is truely sorry and has asked for forgiveness and has repented, she will be in heaven ...am I wrong?

I will not add anymore to this thread in a negative way..blessings...

You should pray for her! And, if she does repent, then of course she'll be forgiven. :grouphug: I'm so sorry this got so hard :(

[Bess]

Why materials for TWO Montessori classrooms? She has only two daughters. Montesorri classrooms often have 20+ children sharing ONE classroom of materials between the lot. She is wacked. And a serial killer.

[CatMomof3]

Reading the article all I felt was sadness. So many lives destroyed for a "high".

[LMA]

After reading the article, how do you know it is true? We only have her word for it. Either way, it is a sad article.

[Marylou]

There is nothing normal about this woman. The story is reality show or Jerry Springer sensational and really has no relevance to either homeschooling or your average pregnancy termination.

 

Barb

 

I can honestly say I've never seen these four words together in a sentence

[Marylou]

I recently found out about the case for life website http://www.caseforlife.com/

 

Unless I missed it, not a thing mentioned about "God" until you click on the link "After Abortion".

 

The lady certainly needs help and prayers.

[Cammie]

Mental illness takes all kinds of forms. I am pro-choice but I truely believe that this woman is ill. I would have believed it even at one abortion if the reason given was the "high" of starting and ending pregnancies. Abortion is difficult, it is emotional, it is upsetting. The fact that this woman enjoyed it on any level...is a sign that she really does need professional help. All the best to her and her two girls.

[kalanamak]

I would have believed it even at one abortion if the reason given was the "high" of starting and ending pregnancies.

 

Unless she was just too busy using mind altering chemicals to care about using birth control, and is making this whole thing up to get a book out of it. Stranger things will have happened.

 

Guess what Mary Kay Letourneau is up to these days?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau

 

Hosting "Hot for Teacher Night" promotions at Seattle nightclub Fuel Sports Eats and Beats. Yuuuuuck.

[asta]

There has been a follow-up article by the Washington Post in a question/answer format:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/10/30/DI2009103002022.html

 

 

a

[Cammie]

Wow, thanks for posting that follow-up. Everyone should read it before commenting any more. She clearly accepts her mental illness and neurosis. She clearly regrets and feels terrible about what she had done. She has done the psychotherapy that everyone was wondering about. She comes across as intelligent, well educated and thoughtful. Clearly she must have gone through some horrible times in her life to have done what she claims to have done.

[lionfamily1999]

The link definitely gives a more in depth picture of her. I'm not sure that it changes my opinions on anything :p but, I know better what she thinks of herself and what she was expecting as a reaction to her book.

 

Thanks Asta.

[unsinkable]

As you may be able to tell from my post count, I rarely ever post here on these boards. Now, I know why, I won't do it again. I apologize if I have contributed to allowing this to get at an elevated level at all. I have posted some Christian questions on here lately as I'm searching for truth in my walk as well. It does trouble me though the amount of judgement that some folks that are Christian have...it makes me personally feel like I'm not good enough to enter his kingdom with things I've done even if I have repented and asked for forgiveness. I pray for this woman-I hope she has repented and asked for forgiveness. And forgive me if I'm not *Christian* enough or don't understand the Bible completely and am teaching my children wrong, but I believe if she is truely sorry and has asked for forgiveness and has repented, she will be in heaven ...am I wrong?

I will not add anymore to this thread in a negative way..blessings...

 

I have known this feeling. :grouphug:

 

I struggle with my past sins and not letting go & the fact that it is a sin to NOT believe in forgiveness. It is enough to make my head spin.

 

You'll be in my prayers!

[PineFarmMom]

The link definitely gives a more in depth picture of her. I'm not sure that it changes my opinions on anything :p but, I know better what she thinks of herself and what she was expecting as a reaction to her book.

 

Thanks Asta.

 

:iagree:I read it as well and it did give a better picture. My opinion is not changed as to what killing that many children is, but I understand her more. If anything, it makes me so sad that abortion was so readily available to someone with such an extreme mental illness. It's like handing a loaded gun to someone in a psych ward. :( Uggg!! And no one to stop her, no doctor that just said "I will not participate in this!!" It's just disturbing.

[Peek a Boo]

:iagree:I read it as well and it did give a better picture. My opinion is not changed as to what killing that many children is, but I understand her more. If anything, it makes me so sad that abortion was so readily available to someone with such an extreme mental illness. It's like handing a loaded gun to someone in a psych ward. :( Uggg!! And no one to stop her, no doctor that just said "I will not participate in this!!" It's just disturbing.

 

 

no kidding.

 

so yes, she is a serial killer.

yes, she has serious problems.

and yes, the free access to abortion on demand helped fuel her problem and kept her from getting the care she really needed much sooner.

 

very sad.

 

as for Christ and His "tone"? depends on the situation. He took a whip to the temple one time and told an adultress to repent and DO NO MORE. He chastised Peter soundly as Satan once and let Judas kiss Him. go figger.

[Barb_]

I can honestly say I've never seen these four words together in a sentence

 

Average pregnancy termination, meaning the usual reasons (rape or incest victim, young girl who feels she'll be kicked out of her house...that sort of thing). She has no more to do with the discussion of abortion than she does with the discussion of home schooling. She's cuckcoo-bats reality show worthy, and I don't see anything to be gained by taking her seriously or discussing her situation.

 

Get it?

 

Barb

[Audrey]

She's cuckcoo-bats reality show worthy,

 

 

:lol: I am so stealing that phrase. You have such a way with words, Barb!

[Haiku]

Reading the interview did nothing to change my opinion. She sounded like she was repeating phrases fed to her by a shrink.

 

Tara

[PineFarmMom]

no kidding.

 

so yes, she is a serial killer.

yes, she has serious problems.

and yes, the free access to abortion on demand helped fuel her problem and kept her from getting the care she really needed much sooner.

 

very sad.

 

as for Christ and His "tone"? depends on the situation. He took a whip to the temple one time and told an adultress to repent and DO NO MORE. He chastised Peter soundly as Satan once and let Judas kiss Him. go figger.

 

:iagree: If nothing else, this article opened my eyes that abortion on demand to mentally unstable people could open the door to an "acceptable" type of serial killer (hello, I guess it already did!!!). I mean, if it's within their rights to get the abortion, then there's nothing that society would have the ability to do to stop the senseless murdering of numbers of innocent children by a person who did it just for their own sick high. :crying: This lady and her book, her entire story, is yet another big, black mark against the abortion industry as a whole!!! If she comes to fully face and be really and honestly sorry for what she did, I just cannot imagine the horror she will feel!!!:crying::crying:

 

About Jesus, yes, He had many different ways of handling sins. I think "Jesus in the temple with a whip" is a picture most people want to discard of when they think of Him. He DID get angry about things!! He was pretty clear, also, on how He felt about children!!!

[lionfamily1999]

Reading the interview did nothing to change my opinion. She sounded like she was repeating phrases fed to her by a shrink.

 

Tara

:iagree: That's what I thought too. I hope she's still getting help, because it doesn't sound like she's mended yet.

[Marylou]

"I come from a culture that cultivates mixed messages," she says, quiet for a moment on the couch in Alexandria. Then she softly starts to sing.

Wow, I think this lady has an excellent point!

 

"Abortion should be safe, legal and rare" they tell us. "Legal" and "safe" I understand. "Rare" why? Do you ever ask yourself why "rare" matters?

 

And why is there so much outrage because she had FIFTEEN abortions :confused:.

 

If the fetus/baby is just a blob of tissue (like wiping our noses) then why does it matter how many abortions ANYONE has? I just don't get why it matters. Do you?

 

Please explain. I am genuinely interested to know why the number matters.

[swellmomma]

 

If the fetus/baby is just a blob of tissue (like wiping our noses) then why does it matter how many abortions ANYONE has? I just don't get why it matters. Do you?

 

Please explain. I am genuinely interested to know why the number matters.

 

 

If you honestly believe a fetus is just a blob of tissue than it wouldn't matter how many someone has. However if you believe life begins at conception then I don't care if the person has 1 or has 15 it is still heinous. Those who are pro-choice, are prochoice because they want abortion to remain legal so those who want/need an abortion can access one safely. That does not mean they believe it should be used in the way this woman has to intentionally start and end lives for sh*ts and giggles. For me at least it is not just the number, 1 is too many, but the shear number in this case shows how sick & twisted she really is, and then to use her depravity to turn a buck with the release of this book is what gets me even more upset.

[PineFarmMom]

Please explain. I am genuinely interested to know why the number matters.

 

Are you asking this from a pro-life person's pov or from a pro-choice person's pov? I guess, either way, it shows some messed-up thinking on both ends. I'm pro-life. One abortion should upset me just as much as 15. The 15 is so upsetting, to me, because it turned it from a one-time choice in a desperate situation (which I'm not on board with either) to a sick, demented choice for a high that is more akin to Jeffrey Dahmer than to a teenage girl in a bad situation. Does that make sense? The fact that anyone in the pro-choice community would find it very upsetting, IMO, would be a proof that, no, it is not just a blob of tissue but a human being; otherwise someone could say that it is just no big deal at all whether it's 1, 15 or 100 blobs of tissue this woman chose to get rid of. I guess I get it...if you are pro-choice and believe that they really ARE blobs of tissue, then why all the hubbub??

[Haiku]

Please explain. I am genuinely interested to know why the number matters.

 

For the same reason that the murder of multiple people gets more press than the murder of one. One person dying is sad, but there's just something more emotional about multiple deaths.

 

Tara

[lionfamily1999]

For the same reason that the murder of multiple people gets more press than the murder of one. One person dying is sad, but there's just something more emotional about multiple deaths.

 

Tara

Or sick and twisted. There's also an idea of... how LONG has this been going on?!? How did no one notice or CARE?

 

That's the general response from serial killers in a neighborhood. No one noticed that person was nuts. No one noticed the bodies. All those people died without anyone doing anything.

 

The numbers almost take away from the individual wrongs. IOW, you read about one person dead and it's very sad. You read about a bus load of folks dead and it's stunning. You don't know or ponder too much the individual losses. It's a giant loss, a sucking vaccuum. All that grief, all that loss, in one big punch.

[Marylou]

I am pro-baby. My question was directed at those who said (in this thread) they are pro-(mother's) choice but are angry about how many abortions the lady had. Why does it matter? Are 15 lives more valuable than one? Thanks for your replies.

[lionfamily1999]

I am pro-baby. My question was directed at those who said (in this thread) they are pro-(mother's) choice but are angry about how many abortions the lady had. Why does it matter? Are 15 lives more valuable than one? Thanks for your replies.

I think it was a pertinent question for both sides, though. Obviously you made those of us that are pro-life reconsider our outrage, even if it didn't change anything (seems like we're still outraged), it did make us consider why 15 would be worse than 1. Personally, I had not considered that before you asked your question.

 

I thought it was a good question for everyone :p

[Haiku]

I also think that, even for people who are opposed to abortion (like myself), there is the idea that some people feel trapped and panic and make a poor decision. We all make poor decisions. Even if we think it's wrong to have an abortion, the idea is that we all make mistakes and bad choices sometimes.

 

But this woman is not a woman who felt trapped and panicky and made a bad choice. This is a woman who deliberately planned the create and kill 15 people. That is sick and twisted in a way that someone feeling trapped and making a bad decision isn't.

 

It's the pre-meditated nature of it that makes it sicker, if not less sad, than the person who has one abortion.

 

Tara

[Mrs Mungo]

I am pro-baby. My question was directed at those who said (in this thread) they are pro-(mother's) choice but are angry about how many abortions the lady had. Why does it matter? Are 15 lives more valuable than one? Thanks for your replies.

 

I think people were responding less to the number and more to her attitude about it/reasons for it.

[PineFarmMom]

I also think that, even for people who are opposed to abortion (like myself), there is the idea that some people feel trapped and panic and make a poor decision. We all make poor decisions. Even if we think it's wrong to have an abortion, the idea is that we all make mistakes and bad choices sometimes.

 

But this woman is not a woman who felt trapped and panicky and made a bad choice. This is a woman who deliberately planned the create and kill 15 people. That is sick and twisted in a way that someone feeling trapped and making a bad decision isn't.

 

It's the pre-meditated nature of it that makes it sicker, if not less sad, than the person who has one abortion.

 

Tara

 

:iagree: What she said!!!!

[Haiku]

A big part of what baffles me about this story is that someone actually married and pro-created with this woman. Were I a man, the 15 abortions thing would be like a huge, flashing neon sign that said "Not a good choice for a life partner!!!"

 

Tara

[Marylou]

If you honestly believe a fetus is just a blob of tissue than it wouldn't matter how many someone has.

 

if you are pro-choice and believe that they really ARE blobs of tissue, then why all the hubbub??

 

Exactly

 

 

I thought it was a good question for everyone :p

 

I still would like to hear from pro-mother's choice folks regarding why they believe (if they do) that abortion should be rare. Why should abortion be rare? I have never heard an explanation of that.

 

www.caseforlife.com

 

We all make poor decisions. Even if we think it's wrong to have an abortion, the idea is that we all make mistakes and bad choices sometimes.

 

 

 

As you know, the Bible says it this way, "We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check" James 3:2

[Mrs Mungo]

I still would like to hear from pro-mother's choice folks regarding why they believe (if they do) that abortion should be rare. Why should abortion be rare? I have never heard an explanation of that.

 

Because it's potentially harmful to the mother. It's a medical procedure with plenty of risks (especially in areas where safe abortions are more difficult to come by). Women are much better off preventing pregnancy in the first place.

[LauraGB]

I still would like to hear from pro-mother's choice folks regarding why they believe (if they do) that abortion should be rare. Why should abortion be rare? I have never heard an explanation of that.

 

 

 

Pro life and pro choice individuals all feel strongly one way or another and will probably never agree at all on the whole. But one thing I think all of them can agree upon is that abortion should not be used as a regular form of birth control (hence the "rare" aspect), or in the case of this sad woman, should not be assisted by medical personnel to someone with an obvious mental illness.

[Marylou]

Pro life and pro choice individuals all feel strongly one way or another and will probably never agree at all on the whole. But one thing I think all of them can agree upon is that abortion should not be used as a regular form of birth control (hence the "rare" aspect), or in the case of this sad woman, should not be assisted by medical personnel to someone with an obvious mental illness.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

I don't agree that the pro-baby and pro-mother's choice people will agree on that at all (bold part) for the simple fact that it is not birth control. But just for the sake of discussion, if it IS birth control, why exactly should it be done rarely? Do you hold that position on all types of birth control?

[LauraGB]

But just for the sake of discussion, if it IS birth control, why exactly should it be done rarely? Do you hold that position on all types of birth control?

I believe in responsible family planning. I do not have a problem with birth control in and of itself; that occurs to prevent a pregnancy. Using abortion as a form of birth control takes away a life. I knew a girl who had 4 abortions before she was 22. She used it as a form of birth control. I whole heartedly disagreed with her. I have no doubt she spends sleepless nights, now almost 40 years old, desperately trying to come to terms with the things she's done. On the other hand, I know a woman who was impregnated by her father when she was 17. I think she, too, has things to work out, but I do not think she did the wrong thing to abort, nor does she.

[angela in ohio]

should not be assisted by medical personnel to someone with an obvious mental illness.

 

That's what I've been wondering. Do they screen for that when you go in for an abortion? Are they allowed to deny someone an abortion based on mental illness? There has been a lot of discussion of the responsibility of the doctors who did these, but what would they have been allowed to do?

[Marylou]

That's what I've been wondering. Do they screen for that when you go in for an abortion? Are they allowed to deny someone an abortion based on mental illness? There has been a lot of discussion of the responsibility of the doctors who did these, but what would they have been allowed to do?

 

I don't understand why someone having 15 abortions is considered mentally ill. How many abortions would a woman have to have before she is considered troubled and needing help?

 

My opinion is: a doctor who is willing to kill a helpless baby would not be inclined to help another person with her "illness".