Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Honestly, I am not super-upset about this, but my interest is peaked enough that I feel moved to make a phone call. My son (13) is in Order of the Arrow in Boyscouts. This is a leadership organization within the scouts. The had their fun fall campout - complete with scary stories, etc. Ds had a ball. When I came to pick him up from camp (mind you this camp is probably 100 acres large - very woodsy, etc. -very boyscoutesque) I noticed that there were approx. 25-30 men working on the power lines in the parking lot. Upon first glance, I thought to myself, "I don't really like all those strange men around with these kids." Just me being paranoid, I guess. Then I notice that they are all wearing orange vests with the words "Sheriff's Crew" printed on the back. I went up to the leader in charge and asked what was going on. She said that they were only people who had unpaid fines for parking tickets, etc. and were volunteering for work release, so they didn't have to go to prison. So, would you say something? I feel that it is an error in judgment to even have this (or any) big group of men that don't pertain to the scouts at the camp when children are running around alone. Then to stamp them with the Sherrif's program just brings up big red flags. There was an armed guard. Just the fact that there had to be an armed guard there makes me uncomfortable. They were spread out at least more than a football field long with woods between them. If one wanted to sneak off, there would seem to be opportunity. Now wouldn't you think - if for nothing else- the boyscouts would not do this for a CYA reason? Hey, here's a bright idea - bring men who have a hard time following the law - to a place where boys sleep at night in tents alone. Just seems stupid to me. I can't wait to hear your opinions. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 It sends out bad messages to the parents when we drive up to get our kids - that there is a work-gang there. Can't think that would help participation! Now, they were only there today - not on a day that was followed by a night of tent camping. And, I picked up my son at 9:30 - but they had been there awhile. Don't you think a better solution would have been to wait until the kids were gone to have them come in and work? Say the work crew came at 10:30, giving the kids an hour to get out of there. That is what I am going to propose to the office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I would be uncomfortable with this also. I think you should bring it to their attention, and I like that you have a solution ready. People seem more open to fixing a problem if you provide a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Were they hired by the Boy Scouts or were they doing county/city work? If the latter then the Boy Scouts wouldn't have control over it. I also assume that the workers weren't staying the night but being bussed in, so are you thinking that one may come back at night? Who was the 'leader' you talked to? A Boy Scout leader or with the crew? It wouldn't be my favorite idea, but not a big deal either. I think that the people who are doing the work release program aren't really any more dangerous than a stranger in the woods. At least with the workers there was the guard keeping an eye on them. I know he wasn't able to see each and every one, all the time, but I would assume he made random checks to make sure they were still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 to do work for the program. Volunteer hours or something. So, yes, they do have control over it - at least allowing them in. I think it is wonderful that there is an opportunity for these people to work off their debt, and maybe they can only do it from the hours of 8 and4 for example, but do they have to do it when kids are present? It is a bit unsettling to come in to an armed guard where your children are spending the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 I don't know what could happen. They were seedy - I felt leered at walking from my car to the hall that was about 40 feet away. Maybe nothing would happen. But, in today's world of kid-crime - seems like this is poor judgment - and kinda asking for something to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Wouldn't bother me personally. If it was a group of sex offenders, then yes, it would bother me. As far as an example to the boys - it would be a bit of a cautionary tale, wouldn't it? As in "don't break the law or you will have to go to jail or do manual labor to pay your debt to society." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 You don't think I should call? Does it make any difference to anyone that this place is REALLY secluded and children are wandering around (13 and up) not always supervised? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I wouldn't call, no. It's the nature of the crime that makes it off my radar. If the children are that unsupervised then that would bother me on a whole 'nother level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy loves Bud Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm struggling with the idea that because of unpaid parking fines they were doing manual labor under and armed guard? It seems that for that type of violation, they would be able to have the supervisor sign off that they did the work and turn it into the court. Are you sure it was just for parking violations? If so then I wouldn't call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 You should complain, however.. it does not mean a thing. I doubt they will listen or pay attention, they will just say... ok... now leave... So, you will feel better that you said something, and that is the end of it. Maybe, if enough parents complain about it they might address it. Again, probably not. It will get lost in the bureaucracy or someone will just think it is no big deal, and it stops there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 were working off tickets by the cook. She said she was in charge - there was also a younger man (25ish) there who agreed with her. They both looked at me like I had two heads when I asked about it and expressed my concern. The fact that there was an armed guard makes me uncomfortable. Why did they have to schedule boys around a work crew with an armed guard? Just seems wrong on several levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 were working off tickets by the cook. She said she was in charge - there was also a younger man (25ish) there who agreed with her. They both looked at me like I had two heads when I asked about it and expressed my concern. The fact that there was an armed guard makes me uncomfortable. Why did they have to schedule boys around a work crew with an armed guard? Just seems wrong on several levels. That doesn't sound right; I would look into it some more. I think the offenses were far more serious than parking tickets if there was a gun. We see lots of orange-vested "work gangs" that are obviously doing community service on Saturdays, picking up litter, etc. I've never seen an guy with a gun for those types. In my lifetime, I've seen a couple of "work gangs" that were obviously more serious offenders - doing roadwork in remote areas, etc. And there *was* a sheriff with a gun standing nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'd definitely call. Boy Scouts have strict rules that leaders have background checks done. In a big camp like this, these men could have access to the boys. Doesn't that mean that they should have background checks done too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I don't know what could happen. They were seedy - I felt leered at walking from my car to the hall that was about 40 feet away. Maybe nothing would happen. But, in today's world of kid-crime - seems like this is poor judgment - and kinda asking for something to happen. Very gently, it is possible your feeling of being leered at and that your percpetion of seediness is more your filter of knowing their history? I've seen work-release crews at parks often. At the Little League Field for Katy, TX, they work around and using the utility shed quite often. My BIL is retired corrections. He took prisoners into the woods to cut down trees. He was accompanied by murderers, arsonists and robbers but never anyone with a history of danger to children. Of course, I don't see today as filled with "kid-crime". Any kid-crime is too much, but I don't hold a "big, bad, dangerous world" paradigm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I'm struggling with the idea that because of unpaid parking fines they were doing manual labor under and armed guard? It seems that for that type of violation, they would be able to have the supervisor sign off that they did the work and turn it into the court. Are you sure it was just for parking violations? If so then I wouldn't call. This was my thought, too. I wasn't aware that people went to prison for unpaid parking tickets. Jail, I guess, maybe if they had enough, but prison? Yes, I think I would dig a little deeper, were it me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 If the children are that unsupervised then that would bother me on a whole 'nother level. Here, part of their first OA camp-out is to spend a night "alone" without their gear. So it would include being fairly unsupervised, but probably within yelling distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivetails Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I've never seen such a thing before, but I'm curious what you mean by "armed guard" ...Because the image I get from those words is someone stalking around the perimeter with a big rifle at the ready? ... or was it a police officer, who had a weapon because they always have a weapon when they're out working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 It would bother me. At the very least, I would call with the purpose of asking for more details. From there, I'd decide if I still felt uncomfortable enough to suggest changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 I didn't notice that they were Sheriff's work crew. I just thought it was weird that there were that many men milling around the camp. My first thought was that BS has to have the leaders/anyone with contact with the kids to have training about improper behavior around kids. So, I thought - gosh this is weird. Then they walked past my car while I was on the phone with my sister (a continued conversation while I was driving into the parking lot). It was then I noticed the leering, and I didn't notice the work crew writing on the vests til I paid better attention. I was not discriminating based on their circumstance, I didn't know it until further looking. FWIW, I guess I kind of discriminated against a group of outsiders - as this is a closed camp with many boys there. I will call and check it out further. The armed guard was a man (I don't know his rank or office) dressed in a dressier blue uniform with a sidearm. I didn't notice the sidearm, personally - this is what the camp leaders told me - that "What's the problem - they have an armed guard?!" Just seems a little out of the norm is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I would call, just to get more information if nothing else. I would be skeptical of the claim that they're "just working off parking tickets". How many unpaid parking tickets does one need to have to have to do community service as an alternative to going to jail? That just seems weird to me. Maybe whoever did the scheduling didn't realize there would be a group of boys there that weekend. Maybe there was some other kind of oversight. It's nice that the Scout camp is able to be the recipient of community service. I'd think they could do it when there aren't young boys there with little supervision, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 You are describing a work crew that you noticed in the parking area, supervised (I imagine that most on duty sherrifs are armed) and doing work at a scout camp. It doesn't sound like they were in the vicinity of the scouts except in the most passing manner. It might be worth expressing your concerns to council, but councils are also squeezed between having property to maintain, investments that are down (like everyone elses), and fewer willing and able volunteers. To my mind, they were being frugal with the council resources to have a group like this come in to do some of the manual work that needs done. Yes there are two-deep leadership and youth protection training requirements. But youth protection training is not required of the contract maintenance folks who are called in to do work at a camp, any more than you do a background check on the plumber that you call. Would I say there was no danger? Of course not. Life contains danger. But I don't see that much to cause me undue fear either. Do you have any reason to believe that if the headcount for the work crew had been missing anyone that the scouts would still have been sent off into the woods for their ordeal? I can see how it would have been surprising, and even unsettling. But I also think that there are probably more groups like this working around state nature areas than you are aware of. Probably worth chatting with your scout about this. Lots of topics from consequences of crime/not paying tickets to personal safety to buddy system come to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 The boys were wandering waiting for their parents/rides. They weren't sent off into the woods for an ordeal with these men around. Just the same - these men were loosely (based on my observation - not a technical term) watched with wandering boys. That is all. Perhaps I am being alarmist. Just seemed like it could be a liability waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Based upon your additions and the fact that the Boy Scouts are VERY strict about who can be present on campouts and that they have specific training, my radar would be buzzing, too. I would call for information about the crew and ask why they were there when they did not have BSA training at an official BSA event. The fact that there was an armed guard would make me nervous - not so much about the risk of an attack on the boys, but the risk of an escape attempt and an innocent bystander getting hurt. This may not have been the situation, but it is worth asking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Please make the call (or don't make the call!) as you see fit. But also - don't "scold" those of us who were asked advice and gave you different advice than you wanted us to give you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Personally, I would call... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I think that if it gave you a leery or creeped-out feeling, then you should probably call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 It's not something that would bother me overly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I guess what would bother me most is not what the crime was, but just that they were there. It would take a lot for me to be okay with letting my dc do an overnight camp (I know, I'm overprotective), so I would definitely need to be comfortable with who and where I left them. If I trusted the people and I made the leap of faith to give my dc the opportunity to have the experience, then picked them up the next day only to find a whole lot of potential criminals milling around, I would be fairly neurotic. Just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Please make the call (or don't make the call!) as you see fit. But also - don't "scold" those of us who were asked advice and gave you different advice than you wanted us to give you. When did she scold anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 ((hug)) - maybe you need it - I really don't think I scolded you or anyone before. Some people asked more specific questions, I elaborated. FWIW, I am probably not going to call - as I said before - maybe I was just feeling alarmist. I believe that is wording that scolds myself, not you. Geesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 When did she scold anyone?I was wondering that too! :confused: I see the thought behind the alarm! I'd call. They're supposed to keep a record of calls, and you're letting your concerns (which seem justified enough to me) be known. If anything WERE to happen in the future because of something like this, they'd have that record of your call to know that it had happened before.... Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Wouldn't bother me personally. If it was a group of sex offenders, then yes, it would bother me. As far as an example to the boys - it would be a bit of a cautionary tale, wouldn't it? As in "don't break the law or you will have to go to jail or do manual labor to pay your debt to society." :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I would call. It does not sound appropriate to me. And unpaid parking tickets.... Not very believable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinakel Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 You should complain, however.. it does not mean a thing. I doubt they will listen or pay attention, they will just say... ok... now leave... So, you will feel better that you said something, and that is the end of it. Maybe, if enough parents complain about it they might address it. Again, probably not. It will get lost in the bureaucracy or someone will just think it is no big deal, and it stops there. I cannot agree with this attitude. And I would call. When no one bothers to speak up, nothing ever changes. I am always speaking up, and it has often been very much appreciated. "Prisoners" (for, after all, they were not free to do as they pleased just then) should not be working at a children's camp. Someone made a bad judgement call in having them there, in my rarely humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Sorry, Shelly. I'm grumpy today because it is a bad pain day for me. I think I was imagining scolding where there was none. Please accept my apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 We have guys in orange jumpsuits working at the fair grounds all week of the fair. There are 4-H kids everywhere. It doesn't really bother me because I am ALWAYS there too. I'm just telling you, it is done other places where there are concentrations of children. Not sure how I would feel about them being at a camp where there are boys who have lots of room to roam around alone. At the fair, there are adults around everywhere too - not really any chance for kids to be alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Angel_79 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 That doesn't sound right; I would look into it some more. I think the offenses were far more serious than parking tickets if there was a gun. We see lots of orange-vested "work gangs" that are obviously doing community service on Saturdays, picking up litter, etc. I've never seen an guy with a gun for those types. In my lifetime, I've seen a couple of "work gangs" that were obviously more serious offenders - doing roadwork in remote areas, etc. And there *was* a sheriff with a gun standing nearby. Agreed...I don't think parking tix gets you an armed guard. All in all, I think it was bad judgement and would file a complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I cannot agree with this attitude. And I would call. When no one bothers to speak up, nothing ever changes. I am always speaking up, and it has often been very much appreciated. "Prisoners" (for, after all, they were not free to do as they pleased just then) should not be working at a children's camp. Someone made a bad judgement call in having them there, in my rarely humble opinion. For those posters who feel similarly, I have a question. In your part of the world, have you not seen this? I see prisoner workers at county, state and city property at places such as children's parks *frequently* here (Texas) and I saw them as frequently in AZ. I do suspect, though, that the crimes were likely things like DUI, maybe assualt (on adults). Parking fines? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 For those posters who feel similarly, I have a question. In your part of the world, have you not seen this? I see prisoner workers at county, state and city property at places such as children's parks *frequently* here (Texas) and I saw them as frequently in AZ. . I don't think I have, come to think of it. Sometimes there are people cleaning up the garbage from the sides of the highways, but they might be volunteer workers. I have heard that it is fairly common in the south, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2fiveboysnc Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 As a Cub Scout/Boy Scout mother, leader and committee member I would probably call and let my concerns be known. The running of a BS camp involves the input of many people at the council level. Usually one person is in charge of putting in district or council events in the calendar, another possibly reserving sites/lodges for group camping trips, and another is adding training dates. That said, there is much potential for overlapping events. My husband was a council employee for 5 yrs and several people have their hands "in the pot" so to say. Would I be concerned to see these people at our local camp, probably. At the same time, I know BS/CS rules enforce the buddy system, 2-deep leadership and accountability. I am 99.9% positive these kids weren't in any danger. But as the pp stated, I would make it known I would have preferred that the volunteers not be there when boys are there. However, as another pp stated, when scheduling volunteers, most organizations today can't be too picky. Just let the council know your concerns. I would call the camp directly if still open full-time or call the council office and ask for the camp director or staff in charge of scheduling camp events. It is usually a DE (district executive) job that rotates between DEs each year. Also, I do live in NC and we have inmates with an armed job come around and pick up the garbage off public roads in front of our house about 2-3 times a year. My house is very close to the road and yes, there is an armed guard but my kids are in the house and we have the doors locked at all times. At THOSE times, I do not feel safe even with an armed guard. These men are mostly inmates in a minimum-security facility who have "earned" the job of picking up trash mostly by good behavior. However, these people may be convicted felons who have worked their way down to a minimum- security prison. My own brother worked on the road crew while in prison once and he was convicted of shooting someone in the leg. We also have volunteer (mostly company sponsored) road crews but they have never picked up in front of my home, only the inmates. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 No, I have seen things like this in town, or along highways. I have never seen anything like this in a private, secluded place where there is probably only 30-40 people (mostly 13-18) roaming around approx. 100 wooded acres. Like I said before, I don't have a problem with anyone earning their way back to society (or paying off parking tickets, etc.), it was just surprising to me that it was done with my (and others') children present in those circumstances. It was not reassuring as a mother picking up her son from the weekend to see. That's all . Thanks for all your posts. Jean, I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hey Shelley, you know what? Regardless of what any of us think, it's your mama-radar going off! If you need to set that at ease, by all means, call and ask about it. I don't think you'll be perceived as an alarmist, and the scout representative you speak to should be easily able to (a) allay your concerns because they know all about it already, or (b) thank you for calling because it's something they really want to know about and didn't before your call. It never hurts to ask, just call and make an inquiry rather than a complaint. Move on to complaint if you find out more information that makes you more uncomfortable. I understand your asking, I often feel the need to seek validation when I'm not quite sure about my feelings on an issue. I know that at times I am prone to knee-jerk reactions, especially where my kids' interests are concerned. But if making the call is what it takes to calm that mother's instinct that something is wrong, then make the call. That's what I'd be doing :001_smile: I am also curious as to their response, so if you do call, please update us. (Another scout mom here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Make the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I cannot agree with this attitude. And I would call. When no one bothers to speak up, nothing ever changes. I am always speaking up, and it has often been very much appreciated. "Prisoners" (for, after all, they were not free to do as they pleased just then) should not be working at a children's camp. Someone made a bad judgement call in having them there, in my rarely humble opinion. Excuse me, but where did I say NOT to speak up? I actually said that she should. What I then went on to say is that she shouldn't *expect* it to be addressed or changed... the buck will stop somewhere. Either someone in the organization didn't even think about it being an issue, didn't know about it at all, or they considered it and didn't think it was a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I can't say for certain why the men are on the work crew, but my brother did have to do community service to work off some of his traffic fines. He hadn't paid his traffic/parking tickets (broken tail light/ mild speeding etc nothing major) and they issued a warrant for his arrest. He didn't have a job to pay, so he would go and check himself in to court house jail. They would put him on a work crew during the day and he would sleep at the jail at night, until they needed to kick him out for people who had more serious offences. Then he would have to go back on another day, do the same, and the cycle continued until he had 'done his time'. So, I dare say it is possible that in certain states, they are there just for traffic offences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Haven't read the responses... If these are people that are doing work release instead of going to jail, then the odds are the offenses are very minor. Think, probation. Also, as an attempt to help the community, the scouts are allowing them to serve their community service there. Or, maybe they didn't have any choice in the matter (although I do think it would be a service to the community to allow people to do their community service there). There is a good lesson to be learned here, you break the law and there are consequences. You could complain, I'm sure some other parents would complain. I wouldn't :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I would call. I would ask why adults who required armed supervision were allowed in such close proximity to children, and I would mention the liability issues involved. I would also ask them why I needed to have fingerprinting, background check, and references to serve in Scouts, when the rules are so relaxed for this situation. I would say it nicely. With that said, though, I'm not sure you'll get very far. Many years ago, I was a leader for Awana Cubbies. That's 3yo's and 4yo's for those of you who may not know. It was held at night, and I had 28 preschoolers with about 2 helpers, in a largish room of a tiny local church. In the *next room*, on the same night and at the same time, the Narcotics Anonymous folks congregated. They hung out beforehand and afterwards in front of the door, smoking and cussing. I was the only one who thought those two groups were incongruous, and that having the drugged-out (and formerly drugged-out) along with the preschoolers was a bad idea. :glare: Though I tend to err on the side of being over-cautious in terms of children's safety, I think it's better to be over-cautious than sorry later on! -And how sorry would it be if something really did happen, that was totally preventable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Here, part of their first OA camp-out is to spend a night "alone" without their gear. So it would include being fairly unsupervised, but probably within yelling distance. There are still adults around. They are supposed to be in an area together, but having their own space. They are not wandering in the woods, finding their own private haven to camp in. And they do get a little bit of gear, per OA rules they can have a water bottle, sleeping bag, pillow, flashlight and insect repellent. The second night, they get their tent and anything else they want. There are ALWAYS adults nearby, the whole time. At least, there are supposed to be. If your council is isolating the boys, that is not how OA is designed to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 This campout was OA and the camping out in the nighttime, as I'm sure the daily activities were supervised! The part that was not was during pick up time. I saw at least a few boys wandering unsupervised near the edges of the woods -reasonably close to take pause- to these workers. Obviously their parents hadn't arrived yet. It was morning, pickup was at 9:30, and this probably happened around 10am. I did call and was pretty nonchalant about it - I wanted to make my concerns/questions known, yet not point any fingers. The leader at the BSofA office did not know that there would be men working at the time of pickup - he thought it was unconventional to have them there together - most work takes place on weekdays when there are no boys there. I expressed my surprise at having men there that needed an armed guard when the rest of us who deal with the kids need training, background checks, etc. He agreed with me and again replied that there must have been a scheduling glitch. I was satisfied and I was happy to have voiced a non-emotional "heads-up" to those in charge. Thanks for all your replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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