s/o Sugar, Allergies, Intolerances

[asta]

Since the original thread is now over 20 pages long, and seems to have devolved (evolved?) into more of a discussion of what constitutes a "reaction" an "allergy" or an "intolerance", I thought I'd start a new thread.

 

Allergy, in medical terms, is an immune response.

 

Intolerance (such as lactose intolerance) is not an immune response, but, rather, the inability to "tolerate" a particular substance.

 

Reaction depends on the subject. A drug reaction can mean a mood change, a rash, anaphylaxis, death, etc. As we have seen in the other thread, many of us have witnessed changes in behavior (sleepiness, wakefulness, moodiness, etc.) in regards to foods, sleep habits, etc.

 

Here are some quotes from the other thread and my thoughts on them:

 

I don't think it is because people don't care. I think it seems like we can't win. Kids have allergies to everything these days. People on here have mentioned dairy, nuts, apples, and pears. I've seen allergy boards where people say their kids are allergic to beef, chicken, eggs, peas, corn, carrots, wheat, rice, etc... When people begin to feel overwhelmed I think they fight back against it and just go with whatever they want.

 

I found some interesting articles: this one is a medical report about allergies in adulthood, but has lots of great info. This is a story out of Australia linking red meat allergies to previous tick bites (interesting). This article discusses the thin border between external and internal attacks to our bodies.

 

When I read these articles, and also encounter folk with multiple, multiple (seemingly) basic food allergies, I wonder what is going on with both our environment and our gene pool.

 

My 1st and 3rd children react to white sugar and artifical sugars, especially aspartame. It seems Splenda isn't as bad, but we just limit it anyway.

 

All of my children have bad reactions to additives and dyes. My youngest shared a piece of cookie cake with a little icing on it and broke out across his face and became raspy. The older three just lose all control of themselves, especially my 1st and 3rd.

 

Whenever I read anything about the inability to process a basic molecule, the terms "inborn error of metabolism" jump into my brain. I is geek.

 

An Inborn Defect of Intestinal Absorption of Certain Monosaccharides

An Inborn Error of Fructose Metabolism

 

Kids, adults, don't just randomly have reactions to things that naturally occur in their body unless something has gone hinky in their genes.

 

I agree with Garga, here. My youngest cannot eat barley. Now, it will NOT kill him if he does, but he gets *really* uncomfortable digestive system issues if he eats barley. He knows that. Even at *3.5* he'll usually ask about the ingredients in a food he is offered. He doesn't want to eat barley, even if it is in candy. (I guess it makes it easy on us that his allergy makes him uncomfortable, though, huh? There's more motivation for him to "follow the food rules.")

 

If I think food may be offered to a group of kids, and he is included, I try to bring an alternative for him "just in case." Barley is a fairly easy allergy to handle because fruits, veggies, and most dairy do not have it as an ingredient... so there's almost always something he can eat somewhere. (Cakes, cupcakes, breads, crackers, and candy almost always include malt/barley... and they're probably the most common snack foods, so I do have to remain vigilant at kids' gatherings.)

 

This doesn't sound like an allergy, it sounds like an intolerance.

 

At least ONE of the ones I read were done on parents who were convinced that their kids reacted badly to cane sugar.

 

Allergies are caused by a reaction to a protein--so is celiac disease (and the barley equivalent???). These cause measurable physical reactions.

 

There are a very, very few other kinds of intolerance. There is an intolerance--not an allergy--to MSG, which is almost always annoying but not life threatening. There are some food dye intolerances that aren't allergies. There's the inability to process lactose. Each of these have specific symptoms, and if you study them, you'd find "behaves badly/is excitable/is crabby/can't concentrate" as a primary symptom to be more than a little suspicious. There is no test for it--unlike all the others I've mentioned. There is no study that's ever found it to exist in any subgroup.

 

 

Not all allergies are to proteins.

 

MSG may not qualify as an allergen, but it is far from "not life threatening". It is classified as an "excitotoxin" in neurology, meaning that it causes neurons to fire so rapidly that they essentially kill themselves. In a person with neurological problems (seizures, Huntington's disease, MS, etc.) MSG is severely damaging.

 

I think it would be helpful if you could site your studies' date=' the authors, funders, and their research conclusions. I find it hard to believe any researcher could "PROVE" there is no reaction to sugar in all children. I had a large reaction to sugar when I was a kid. I went in for diabetes testing. No diabetes, but it does turn out that I pass out at what is considered "normal" levels of blood sugar. My body is just made differently, it handles sugar differently, and so does my daughter. So I guess you are trying to say that though I do not have diabetes I passed out during a glucose tolerance test because my mom told me sugar made me high? I'll alert my doctors.[/quote']

 

There are a lot of us wandering around with weird reactions to things. But how many of us really want to go get our genes sequenced. Or even have specific genes tested? Is my endocrine system whacked? Yeah. Can they more or less control it? Yeah. Will knowing what gene got crimped help me out at this point? No. Is it pretty obvious it IS a crimped gene? Yeah. Bummer.

 

Those are my thoughts. Hive?

[Snickerdoodle]

People always assume my son is lactose intolerant when I say he has a milk allergy. It is frustrating.

 

I had a neighbor who gave my son corn chips even though I said he is allergic to corn. She was surprised when his throat swelled up.....

[Emmy]

Snickerdoodle - I have that problem all the time. In fact I have one family member that I would never leave my youngest with because this person just does not GET what a milk allergy is. They cannot seem to separate his issue from the concept of lactose intolerance......

[Ravin]

Lactose intolerance is the one that always gets me at people's reactions. It's actually the baseline human norm; the ability to digest lactose into adulthood is a mutation only found in select baseline populations--most notably some Africans and Northern Europeans. Given what mutts Americans are these days, it's no wonder lactose intolerance is common, while the Northern European-originated dairy food culture remains dominant. It's kind of screwy.

 

The thing that really blows my mind is how many people feed their babies lactose-free or soy formula because they think their BABY is lactose intolerant. Lactose intolerance in infants is and EXTREMELY rare defect; until the last 50 years or so it was likely to be fatal.

[LivingLatin]

Actually, infants (and, indeed, anyone) can develop a temporary lactose intolerance secondary to a lower-digestive infection or, more commonly, infant milk-protein intolerance. (This happened to my second baby. It was wretched and miserable for all of us.) The lactase-producing structures in the lining of the gut can easily be stripped by those and other unpleasantnesses, and as a result, the person can't digest lactose well until their gut heals. More permanent forms of lactose intolerance in infants are indeed very rare, because they aren't really compatible with life, and have thus been selected against for our entire evolution.

 

Nealy

mama to Thales, 6; Lydia, 3; and Odin, 10 months

[Ellie]

My dds are now 31 and 34yo. Both could not tolerate dairy products, not on their own, not the dairy products *I* ate/drank when I was nursing them. As infants they spit up all.the.time until I removed dairy from my diet, and older dd had terrible diaper rashes after she weaned until I figured out it was the cow's milk she was drinking which caused them; older dd also vomited when she ate tiny bits of cheese and cottage cheese (before I knew there were problems). As adults, younger dd gets extreme stomach cramps if she eats too much cheese; she doubles over immediately with yogurt or kefir; she doesn't even try to drink cow's milk. Older dd, who also has asthma, can feel herself clogging up with just the little bit of diary that's in Coffee-Mate.

 

Is that lactose intolerance or allergy? I dunno, and I don't really care. In either case, there's no dairy in their lives. And if someone tells me that her dc is allergic or intolerant to whichever food product, I don't give the child that food product. Ever. People who do so are just, well, stupid.:glare:

[Aunty Social]

And if someone tells me that her dc is allergic or intolerant to whichever food product, I don't give the child that food product. Ever. People who do so are just, well, stupid.:glare:

 

Amen!

[LittleIzumi]

 

Is that lactose intolerance or allergy? I dunno, and I don't really care. In either case, there's no dairy in their lives. And if someone tells me that her dc is allergic or intolerant to whichever food product, I don't give the child that food product. Ever. People who do so are just, well, stupid.:glare:

 

Our allergist tested dd for milk allergy at 9 months (was negative but is very inaccurate at that age), and told us that since it looked like just an intolerance we should avoid milk itself, we should feel okay to try cheese and yogurt and see how she did. And if it got worse, she should see the pedi GI.

 

So we did--no milk, but she ate bits of cheese, yogurt, milk baked in, etc. Then we finally went to the pedi for her horrific reflux since 2 weeks old that still made her sob and throw up on Prevacid at almost 4 where a food diary gave no ideas. She was scoped and biopsied--and what do you know, she IS actually physically allergic to milk. In fact, the little milk exposures made her throat swell so that the opening to her stomach could not close--hence the horrible reflux. Acid just splashed right out into her throat. But with the little exposures, she was basically constantly inflamed and therefore there wasn't a new reaction when she had some dairy. Now that she has been dairy free for a while, we can tell when she has even the tiniest bit of baked in dairy. Normally she's reflux free now! In retrospect it makes sense that the bits of dairy were a problem but we thought we were following the allergist's advice like we ought to, as she had no skin/breathing reactions that indicated allergy.

 

And yes, lots of people ask if she can have lactose-free milk (NO), or give her Goldfish (sigh), etc. She wore a "no milk" bracelet and showed it to everyone and was still given something with milk in it (when we weren't there).

Edited October 23, 2009 by LittleIzumi

[Harriet Vane]

Lactose intolerance is the one that always gets me at people's reactions. It's actually the baseline human norm; the ability to digest lactose into adulthood is a mutation only found in select baseline populations--most notably some Africans and Northern Europeans. Given what mutts Americans are these days, it's no wonder lactose intolerance is common, while the Northern European-originated dairy food culture remains dominant. It's kind of screwy.

 

The thing that really blows my mind is how many people feed their babies lactose-free or soy formula because they think their BABY is lactose intolerant. Lactose intolerance in infants is and EXTREMELY rare defect; until the last 50 years or so it was likely to be fatal.

 

Where do you get this information?

 

As the mother of a lactose intolerant son, I have to say your words here are incorrect and unfortunate. I know they are not directed at me personally, but your opinion in this is at the least woefully uninformed.

 

My ds spent the first three weeks of his young life screaming. He slept only fitfully and nursed constantly. When I dropped dairy out of my diet, he became a completely different baby. Each and every time he has tried ANY amount of dairy in the years since, he has been in terrible pain. There have been a handful of times that he accidentally ate something containing dairy--we only figured out that dairy was a component AFTER his stomach started hurting. And when I say his stomach hurt, I mean he was in AGONY.

 

Lactose intolerance is real, and yes, it does occur in babies. Some are lucky enough to grow out of it, but all too often they don't. I wish my ds did not have to cope with this--it makes cooking high maintenance, and I have to make sure he has his own snacks at birthday parties or play dates or soccer games.

 

This isn't something we made up. It's a fact of our life.

[Ellie]

Our allergist tested dd for milk allergy at 9 months (was negative but is very inaccurate at that age), and told us that since it looked like just an intolerance we should avoid milk itself, we should feel okay to try cheese and yogurt and see how she did. And if it got worse, she should see the pedi GI.

 

What the...??? I'm gobsmacked. "Just" an intolerance??? If someone cannot tolerate *milk* it only makes sense to avoid all dairy products.:glare:

[jplain]

Intolerance (such as lactose intolerance) is not an immune response, but, rather, the inability to "tolerate" a particular substance.

 

I'd like to add that intolerances can indeed be immune-mediated. Gluten intolerance is another term for celiac disease, which is an autoimmune disease. Milk and soy protein intolerance is not a true allergy (which would be IgE-mediated), but many believe they are indeed immune system reactions (likely IgG-mediated).

 

My personal belief is that most food intolerances, aside from the obvious enzyme deficiencies, are not indicative of gene defects. I believe they are actually symptoms of a leaky gut. If the intestinal lining allows things to cross into the bloodstream that shouldn't, the immune system may develop inappropriate responses to normal food substances. These responses may include things like rashes, behavior issues, vomiting/diarrhea, reflux, etc.

 

Leaky gut is finally getting some attention in the field of autoimmune disease research. Here's hoping that we'll soon know what must be done to heal the gut!

[LittleIzumi]

What the...??? I'm gobsmacked. "Just" an intolerance??? If someone cannot tolerate *milk* it only makes sense to avoid all dairy products.:glare:

 

Werd. We did avoid all dairy for about six months after that anyway, but then started trying some and she seemed okay, just gassy. But she was on hypoallergenic formula and still had the reflux problems the entire time, so we thought the reflux was unrelated but more likely she was one of the kids who couldn't handle even the tiny amounts of milk present in it. Sigh. Gotta love hindsight.

[LittleIzumi]

Re: leaky gut, at least our pedi GI said dd is so sensitive to the milk that when she gets some, her system over-reacts to anything it's the tiniest bit bothered by for about a week, which fits what we've seen. That's part of what made it so hard to say "it was the dairy," because her body then freaks out off and on all week. After being completely dairy-free for 6 months and letting her system heal, we get to trial dairy again. If she still reacts, it's probably not just the internal damage needing to heal but a long-term allergy (per the GI, anyway). I bet long-term allergy.

[Harriet Vane]

What the...??? I'm gobsmacked. "Just" an intolerance??? If someone cannot tolerate *milk* it only makes sense to avoid all dairy products.:glare:

 

:iagree:

 

I have run into this with others, wherein they will say, "Oh, dc cannot have milk but he seems to tolerate a little cheese okay. We just don't give him too much." What?!? Why on earth would someone keep the gut irritated and inflamed like that?

 

My own ds has such a strong reaction to the smallest amounts of milk product that we have never considered it acceptable to try to see if he can tolerate a little cheese or yogurt.

 

My dr is also lactose intolerant, and really disagrees with the idea of giving a little cheese or a little yogurt to see if they can tolerate it. Because he lives with lactose intolerance personally, he knows that the reality is that tolerating a little bit is just asking the child to tolerate a little discomfort as a way of life.

[jplain]

Where do you get this information?

 

As the mother of a lactose intolerant son, I have to say your words here are incorrect and unfortunate.

Gently...you might wish to check with your child's caregiver about the specific diagnosis. Unless you were forced to switch him to a lactose-free forumla, the correct diagnosis is more likely to be milk protein intolerance than lactose intolerance.

 

Here's why. You mention that he was miserable until you dropped dairy products from your diet. Once you did that, his symptoms improved. Yay for answers! Dairy is the culprit!

 

But removing dairy from your diet did not remove lactose from his diet.

 

Breastmilk is actually higher in lactose than cow's milk. If he was able to tolerate any amount of breastmilk, he is not lactose intolerant. But he's probably milk protein intolerant.

 

Milk has three main nutritional components: (1) milk proteins, which can be divided into caseins (fat-soluble proteins) and whey (water-soluble proteins), (2) milk fat, (3) milk sugar (lactose). Milk also has water, vitamins/minerals, and a whole host of immune factors in it.

 

Children with milk protein intolerance are unable to tolerate one (usually) or both (less common) types of milk protein. Most outgrow their intolerance over time, but some don't.

[Laurie4b]

What the...??? I'm gobsmacked. "Just" an intolerance??? If someone cannot tolerate *milk* it only makes sense to avoid all dairy products.:glare:

 

I developed lactose intolerance as a teen. I can eat cheese, yogurt, and ice cream fine. I just can't drink lots of milk without GI symptoms. Part of it is in the amount of milk, I think (I used to just swig it when I was thirsty--it's hard to eat that much cheese!) and part of it is with cheese and yogurt, it's been processed by bacteria in a way that makes it easier on the system.

[hsmamainva]

I'd like to add that intolerances can indeed be immune-mediated. Gluten intolerance is another term for celiac disease, which is an autoimmune disease. Milk and soy protein intolerance is not a true allergy (which would be IgE-mediated), but many believe they are indeed immune system reactions (likely IgG-mediated).

 

My personal belief is that most food intolerances, aside from the obvious enzyme deficiencies, are not indicative of gene defects. I believe they are actually symptoms of a leaky gut. If the intestinal lining allows things to cross into the bloodstream that shouldn't, the immune system may develop inappropriate responses to normal food substances. These responses may include things like rashes, behavior issues, vomiting/diarrhea, reflux, etc.

 

Leaky gut is finally getting some attention in the field of autoimmune disease research. Here's hoping that we'll soon know what must be done to heal the gut!

 

This is exactly the case with my youngest!!!

 

She has autism and she's terribly allergic to wheat and soy. When she has wheat, she will have definite digestive reactions, as well as break out in an excema-like rash.

 

With soy, her reaction is purely behavioral. She will literally screech at the top of her lungs and she'll bite her hands until they bleed.

 

She's fine with dairy in very small doses, but when she has a lot of it, we see the same reactions that we do with the soy. So dairy is limited. (She might have some real butter on the weekends with her gluten-free pancakes, for example, because she reacts terribly to margarine, which almost always contains soy)....the same can be said for cheese substitutes.

[jplain]

Kelly, we're part of the soy-, dairy-, gluten-free club too.

 

Did you know Earth Balance now makes a soy-free, dairy-free margarine?

:party:

I had to go to Whole Foods to get it, because my local health food store didn't carry it.

[LittleIzumi]

Kelly, we're part of the soy-, dairy-, gluten-free club too.

 

Did you know Earth Balance now makes a soy-free, dairy-free margarine?

:party:

I had to go to Whole Foods to get it, because my local health food store didn't carry it.

 

Yup! Love Earth Balance.

[asta]

An interesting article on celiac: Recent advances in coeliac disease

[hsmamainva]

Kelly, we're part of the soy-, dairy-, gluten-free club too.

 

Did you know Earth Balance now makes a soy-free, dairy-free margarine?

:party:

I had to go to Whole Foods to get it, because my local health food store didn't carry it.

 

Oooh!!! I'll bet they would have it at Wegmans!! (There's one about 40 minutes away from us, but it would be worth the trip!!)

 

Thanks so much!!

[zaichiki]

This doesn't sound like an allergy, it sounds like an intolerance.

 

I'm responding to this without my original quote because I'm technologically incapable. :D It was in response to my son's reaction/intolerance/allergy to barley.

 

I don't know the actual meanings of each of those words. I saw that you posted an intolerance is not an immune response. Okay. But Celiac Disease is also called a gluten intolerance. Gluten intolerance is identified by a blood test for the presence of antibodies. When I hear "antibodies" I think immune response. So... this is why I'm confused.

 

If I use the word "allergy" it's just because it's more easily understood. I don't know if my ds has a reaction, intolerance, or allergy. If he eats barley he has a response similar to that of someone who has celiac disease. He has stomach cramps for a few days, frequent and stinky gas, and MANY trips to the bathroom (often "misses" that are messy). I've been told that whatever protein causes the body to create antibodies and causes intestinal damage in someone with celiac is probably similar to what's happening to ds because wheat, barley, and rye are in the same "family."

 

I need to educate myself more. Indeed, we're going to have the blood test for celiac disease/gluten intolerance done soon. Just in case.

[joannqn]

Interesting thread. Three out of four of my children have had issues with dairy, and we suspect the one without issues may now be having issues. Each child has reacted differently to dairy.

 

Based on symptoms, we say our oldest was allergic to dairy (specifically whey protein) but has outgrown it.

 

Our second had all of the symptoms of lactose intolerance but has also recovered.

 

Our youngest is allergic, requiring me to be on a dairy free diet.

 

Our 3rd child is showing possible lactose intolerance symptoms but we haven't narrowed it down yet; we think it may be lactose, juice, fruit, sugar, or dye. He's the one that is most confusing.

[asta]

I'm responding to this without my original quote because I'm technologically incapable. :D It was in response to my son's reaction/intolerance/allergy to barley.

 

I don't know the actual meanings of each of those words. I saw that you posted an intolerance is not an immune response. Okay. But Celiac Disease is also called a gluten intolerance. Gluten intolerance is identified by a blood test for the presence of antibodies. When I hear "antibodies" I think immune response. So... this is why I'm confused.

 

If I use the word "allergy" it's just because it's more easily understood. I don't know if my ds has a reaction, intolerance, or allergy. If he eats barley he has a response similar to that of someone who has celiac disease. He has stomach cramps for a few days, frequent and stinky gas, and MANY trips to the bathroom (often "misses" that are messy). I've been told that whatever protein causes the body to create antibodies and causes intestinal damage in someone with celiac is probably similar to what's happening to ds because wheat, barley, and rye are in the same "family."

 

I need to educate myself more. Indeed, we're going to have the blood test for celiac disease/gluten intolerance done soon. Just in case.

 

I'm a real psycho about celiac, sorry. The reason why is because (and many, if not most people don't know this) untreated celiac can lead to neurological damage. It's easy to find info just through google searches. Since I ended up with neuro damage from an accident, I hate to see anyone have to deal with it.

 

I was pretty teed off at my SIL when she was totally blase about how her kids were eating basically nothing *but* gluten products even after their dad had been diagnosed - and she was in no hurry to get them tested. Even now, with the boy officially having the sensitivity, she hasn't adjusted his diet at all. It's sad.

 

 

a

[Corraleno]

Gently...you might wish to check with your child's caregiver about the specific diagnosis. Unless you were forced to switch him to a lactose-free forumla, the correct diagnosis is more likely to be milk protein intolerance than lactose intolerance.

 

Here's why. You mention that he was miserable until you dropped dairy products from your diet. Once you did that, his symptoms improved. Yay for answers! Dairy is the culprit!

 

But removing dairy from your diet did not remove lactose from his diet.

 

Breastmilk is actually higher in lactose than cow's milk. If he was able to tolerate any amount of breastmilk, he is not lactose intolerant. But he's probably milk protein intolerant.

 

Milk has three main nutritional components: (1) milk proteins, which can be divided into caseins (fat-soluble proteins) and whey (water-soluble proteins), (2) milk fat, (3) milk sugar (lactose). Milk also has water, vitamins/minerals, and a whole host of immune factors in it.

 

Children with milk protein intolerance are unable to tolerate one (usually) or both (less common) types of milk protein. Most outgrow their intolerance over time, but some don't.

 

:iagree:

A lactose intolerant baby can't tolerate the lactose in breast milk either, whereas a casein- or whey-intolerant baby reacts to the proteins in cow's or goat's milk that pass through the mother's milk. Both my kids have casein issues, my daughter had terrible eczema as a baby and still gets rashes if she eats a lot of cheese.

[momto2Cs]

People always assume my son is lactose intolerant when I say he has a milk allergy. It is frustrating.

 

I had a neighbor who gave my son corn chips even though I said he is allergic to corn. She was surprised when his throat swelled up.....

 

I have a friend whose toddler is allergic to dairy (yes, allergic - you feed him anything with any dairy in it and he's glued to the toilet within 15 minutes, for hours). At first, I didn't really understand the allergy vs lactose intolerant, but I get it now, and feel like a dweeb for not really understanding that there IS a difference earlier.

[gingersmom]

My son had horrible eczema soon after birth (he was bottle fed). When he was about 1 1/2 years old I took him for allergy testing.

 

He is not allergic to milk, but it gives him eczema. Bad bad eczema. Thus, no milk (most dairy) for us.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Strider, human milk contains lactose (actually galactose.) It is extremely rare for infacts to be allergic to lactose - that would be galactosemia - one of those serious metabolic errors they test for, along with PKU. However, that does not mean that infants won't react to other substances in dairy, such as milk proteins. If your baby was able to tolerate your breastmilk (after you removed dairy from your diet) then it is not likely that it is actually a lactose issue, but a foreign milk protein issue.

 

I had a similar problem with my son, though not quite so severe. Although my son did not appear to react to dairy in my diet (I may not have been smart enough to make connections about that, though), he was highly intolerant of milk. We found out at 10 months when the ped. insisted on us feeding him something with milk. Within 15 minutes, ds' face was all rashy, his eyes were watering and he was wheezing. We avoided all milk products for him for 7 or 8 years. Yep, cooking for a milk-intolerant child is a pain. I had to make EVERYTHING from scratch and bring our own treats everywhere. Now, he is nearly 16 and not nearly so sensitive. He doesn't drink milk (uses rice milk instead), but can tolerate some amounts of cheeses, and can eat foods made with milk products - i.e. baked goods, frostings and can now eat ice cream. I know that not all kids outgrow this, but my son is fortunate enough that it is no longer a serious issue.

[Susie in SWVA]

Here is something that I don't think has been mentioned. My daughter, now 31, has always had nasty eczema problems. I wasn't dairy. Finally, a couple of years ago, she discovered she is allergic (intolerant?) to citric acid! It has made a tremendous difference since she makes every attempt to avoid it. But, have you ever tried to find things that DON'T contain citric acid? I spend a lot of time reading labels before she comes home for a visit.

 

Susie in SWVA

[LittleIzumi]

Here is something that I don't think has been mentioned. My daughter, now 31, has always had nasty eczema problems. I wasn't dairy. Finally, a couple of years ago, she discovered she is allergic (intolerant?) to citric acid! It has made a tremendous difference since she makes every attempt to avoid it. But, have you ever tried to find things that DON'T contain citric acid? I spend a lot of time reading labels before she comes home for a visit.

 

Susie in SWVA

 

Yep. :grouphug:

When dd was little, she seemed to react to milk, soy, anything acidic, and corn. Most citric acid is derived from corn--and so is practically everything else in the American diet. :confused: But she grew out of most of those (one reason why we were okay to try dairy again), and now we know it was probably her uber-sensitivity to dairy that made her overreact to everything. But man, it's hard to find things with no citric acid, no corn. Bleh.

[LittleIzumi]

I'm responding to this without my original quote because I'm technologically incapable. :D It was in response to my son's reaction/intolerance/allergy to barley.

 

I don't know the actual meanings of each of those words. I saw that you posted an intolerance is not an immune response. Okay. But Celiac Disease is also called a gluten intolerance. Gluten intolerance is identified by a blood test for the presence of antibodies. When I hear "antibodies" I think immune response. So... this is why I'm confused.

 

If I use the word "allergy" it's just because it's more easily understood. I don't know if my ds has a reaction, intolerance, or allergy. If he eats barley he has a response similar to that of someone who has celiac disease. He has stomach cramps for a few days, frequent and stinky gas, and MANY trips to the bathroom (often "misses" that are messy). I've been told that whatever protein causes the body to create antibodies and causes intestinal damage in someone with celiac is probably similar to what's happening to ds because wheat, barley, and rye are in the same "family."

 

I need to educate myself more. Indeed, we're going to have the blood test for celiac disease/gluten intolerance done soon. Just in case.

 

If I remember right, you can be gluten intolerant but NOT have Celiac's, but if you have Celiac's you obviously can't tolerate gluten. Celiac's isn't just an intolerance to gluten (which is different and some people have that) but a whole immune response and causes other illnesses/issues, not just digestive.

[Harriet Vane]

For those who have posted about the definition of lactose intolerance for me:

 

I am using the term that was given to me. When I told my midwife that my baby was colicky she suggested that he may be lactose intolerant. I gave up milk per her suggestions and had a totally different baby. Over the years this has also come up in conversation with my doctor, who describes himself as lactose intolerant and who has also described my ds as lactose intolerant. I have had my son allergy tested--the full battery--twice. When those tests showed that he was not allergic to milk, both the allergist and the doctor said, "Well he's not allergic to milk so it's an intolerance."

 

Either way, my ds' physical reaction is pretty severe, and very obvious. Three different medical professionals have called it lactose intolerance, so that's what we have always called it.

 

Is there any benefit to figuring this out any further? Does it matter if it's a milk protein intolerance or something else? Honestly, it doesn't seem to matter--we know it makes him sick, so he avoids it.

[Sputterduck]

Where do you get this information?

 

As the mother of a lactose intolerant son, I have to say your words here are incorrect and unfortunate. I know they are not directed at me personally, but your opinion in this is at the least woefully uninformed.

 

My ds spent the first three weeks of his young life screaming. He slept only fitfully and nursed constantly. When I dropped dairy out of my diet, he became a completely different baby. Each and every time he has tried ANY amount of dairy in the years since, he has been in terrible pain. There have been a handful of times that he accidentally ate something containing dairy--we only figured out that dairy was a component AFTER his stomach started hurting. And when I say his stomach hurt, I mean he was in AGONY.

 

Lactose intolerance is real, and yes, it does occur in babies. Some are lucky enough to grow out of it, but all too often they don't. I wish my ds did not have to cope with this--it makes cooking high maintenance, and I have to make sure he has his own snacks at birthday parties or play dates or soccer games.

 

This isn't something we made up. It's a fact of our life.

 

You know that human breastmilk is full of lactose, right? There is more lactose in breastmilk than cow's milk. If your son could drink your milk, he was not lactose intolerant. He was probably allergic to the casein in cow's milk.

[Harriet Vane]

You know that human breastmilk is full of lactose, right? There is more lactose in breastmilk than cow's milk. If your son could drink your milk, he was not lactose intolerant. He was probably allergic to the casein in cow's milk.

 

Did you see my post just before you posted?

[Sputterduck]

Did you see my post just before you posted?

 

Yeah, I just caught that. Sorry.

[Ravin]

Actually, infants (and, indeed, anyone) can develop a temporary lactose intolerance secondary to a lower-digestive infection or, more commonly, infant milk-protein intolerance. (This happened to my second baby. It was wretched and miserable for all of us.) The lactase-producing structures in the lining of the gut can easily be stripped by those and other unpleasantnesses, and as a result, the person can't digest lactose well until their gut heals. More permanent forms of lactose intolerance in infants are indeed very rare, because they aren't really compatible with life, and have thus been selected against for our entire evolution.

 

Nealy

mama to Thales, 6; Lydia, 3; and Odin, 10 months

 

This is why human milk has enzymes and such in it; it helps establish and maintain healthy gut flora in an infant. Formula lacks the digestive aids, so in these circumstances it makes sense that a formula-fed infant would have temporary difficulties with lactose.

 

My dds are now 31 and 34yo. Both could not tolerate dairy products, not on their own, not the dairy products *I* ate/drank when I was nursing them. As infants they spit up all.the.time until I removed dairy from my diet, and older dd had terrible diaper rashes after she weaned until I figured out it was the cow's milk she was drinking which caused them; older dd also vomited when she ate tiny bits of cheese and cottage cheese (before I knew there were problems). As adults, younger dd gets extreme stomach cramps if she eats too much cheese; she doubles over immediately with yogurt or kefir; she doesn't even try to drink cow's milk. Older dd, who also has asthma, can feel herself clogging up with just the little bit of diary that's in Coffee-Mate.

 

Is that lactose intolerance or allergy? I dunno, and I don't really care. In either case, there's no dairy in their lives. And if someone tells me that her dc is allergic or intolerant to whichever food product, I don't give the child that food product. Ever. People who do so are just, well, stupid.:glare:

 

If they can't eat cheese or yogurt, it's probably not lactose intolerance. Bacteria does the lactose digesting for you in those foods. it's more likely the casein or other proteins they have problems with.

 

Where do you get this information?

 

As the mother of a lactose intolerant son, I have to say your words here are incorrect and unfortunate. I know they are not directed at me personally, but your opinion in this is at the least woefully uninformed.

 

My ds spent the first three weeks of his young life screaming. He slept only fitfully and nursed constantly. When I dropped dairy out of my diet, he became a completely different baby. Each and every time he has tried ANY amount of dairy in the years since, he has been in terrible pain. There have been a handful of times that he accidentally ate something containing dairy--we only figured out that dairy was a component AFTER his stomach started hurting. And when I say his stomach hurt, I mean he was in AGONY.

 

Lactose intolerance is real, and yes, it does occur in babies. Some are lucky enough to grow out of it, but all too often they don't. I wish my ds did not have to cope with this--it makes cooking high maintenance, and I have to make sure he has his own snacks at birthday parties or play dates or soccer games.

 

This isn't something we made up. It's a fact of our life.

 

Going to ditto others who said this isn't lactose intolerance. Human milk has more lactose in it than cow's; most likely it's the proteins or some other component that are the problem.

For those who have posted about the definition of lactose intolerance for me:

 

I am using the term that was given to me. When I told my midwife that my baby was colicky she suggested that he may be lactose intolerant. I gave up milk per her suggestions and had a totally different baby. Over the years this has also come up in conversation with my doctor, who describes himself as lactose intolerant and who has also described my ds as lactose intolerant. I have had my son allergy tested--the full battery--twice. When those tests showed that he was not allergic to milk, both the allergist and the doctor said, "Well he's not allergic to milk so it's an intolerance."

 

Either way, my ds' physical reaction is pretty severe, and very obvious. Three different medical professionals have called it lactose intolerance, so that's what we have always called it.

 

Is there any benefit to figuring this out any further? Does it matter if it's a milk protein intolerance or something else? Honestly, it doesn't seem to matter--we know it makes him sick, so he avoids it.

 

It does matter, because people with actual lactose intolerance (that is, who do not have lactase persistence, or the continued production of lactase, the enzyme for digesting lactose, into adulthood) can eat hard cheeses and dairy products such as kefir and yogurt, in which the lactase has been digested for them by bacteria or molds. One can have a protein intolerance, or an intolerance of some other dairy component, that precludes eating ANY dairy. They aren't the same thing.

 

Here's an article on the population genetics of lactase persistence:

 

http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1000491

 

Here's one on myths and realities of lactose intolerance:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17956597?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

 

 

The abstract to this article very helpfully defines lactose intolerance, its incidence, and how it's tested for:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3140651?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

[asta]

If I remember right, you can be gluten intolerant but NOT have Celiac's, but if you have Celiac's you obviously can't tolerate gluten. Celiac's isn't just an intolerance to gluten (which is different and some people have that) but a whole immune response and causes other illnesses/issues, not just digestive.

 

Exactly.

 

I found an article on it, but it was so labyrinthine, I figured I'd get stoned for posting it, LOL.

 

 

a

[keptwoman]

You know what really pees me off about this whole debate: labels. I couldn't give a flying fig about the labels that dictate why my children and I can't eat certain things... I just know we can't.

 

For instance: my 2nd and 3rd children reacted strongly (swollen lips and rashy face) to any dairy given to them direct. They did not seem to react to dairy in my milk so I kept eating dairy and kept breastfeeding them. I had a doctor tell me I was dreaming... whadeva. Then they are OK on goats milk. I've had people tell me that can't be true because if you are allergic/intolerant/burblygurbly to dairy you must be to goats. Well mine aren't. DS grew out of whatever it is that was a problem (I never bothered finding out, I just didn't give him dairy and gave him goats instead) DD never grew out of her dairy whaddeva, but still is fine on goats and can now have soy. I give her a little dairy. I see someone here is questioning the wisdom oof that too: well she can tolerate a LITTLE, Occasionally, so that's what I give her. It allows her the odd grilled cheese sandwich or whatever. And you know, I don't care what other people think of that or what label they want to put on it. I know my DD, I know what she can and can't cope with and I'm not interested in what anyone else including a doctor has to say on the matter.

 

If I say my DD can't have dairy, she can't. Occasionally someone forgets and serve pizza or something. I know that sometimes a little is OK, if she has had her quota I'll find something else, if not I'll say she can have some. And it's no body elses business about the complex formula I use to work that out. Just trust me when I say that while I may have allowed her to have cheese that once, she is still dairy free.

 

I react to gluten, it took me many years to figure out what on earth it was that was causing me such agony. A succession of doctors have written it off as IBS, but when I stopped eating gluten the "IBS" and the joint aches, and a funny rash and a whole bunch of other stuff went away. The doctors are not interested unless I am willing to submit myself to EATING GLUTEN for 3 months (lets all chant HELL together) in order to have a test which may or may not tell them what I already know: I can't eat gluten. I've just had a colonoscopy under GA and while I was under the Dr asked to do a gastroscopy too to do a biopsy for celiacs, I said yes and he has. But either way, whether he declares me celiacs or not, I won't be eating gluten at all, ever.

 

I say we all forget research, forget what doctors have to say unless they are helpful and actually listen (or we need epipens from them). Trust our own bodies and trust our childrens bodies. AND trust each other when we say our kid can't have something regardless of the labels they choose to ascribe to that.

[Peela]

I say we all forget research, forget what doctors have to say unless they are helpful and actually listen (or we need epipens from them). Trust our own bodies and trust our childrens bodies. AND trust each other when we say our kid can't have something regardless of the labels they choose to ascribe to that.

 

:iagree: I dont think the labels have caught up with the huge number of issues that are developing in these last decades, anyway.

 

 

Dd has always been sensitive to sugar. No, not diabetic, we checked that. It just makes her nauseous sometimes, gives her stomach cramps, headaches. She even gets a bad headache from eating too much starch, like rice. The doctor doesnt have a clue and therefore dismisses it, as if it isnt happening, because she cant explain it or find a test that gives it a label. Dd just has to learn to live around it.

 

I was very careful about introducing foods- especially dairy and wheat- to my babies, because I knew all about allergies, although I apparently dont have any- dh does. I thought I had done well but this last year both dh and ds13 have developed a gluten- perhaps only wheat - sensitivity, and ds13 has developed a lactose intolerance.

 

There has got to be something seriously wrong in the food chain for this to be happening on such a huge scale.

I am learning to cook from scratch with my new Thermomix, so we can eat well. We are eating much more fruit and vegetables and unprocessed foods.

[jazzyfizzle]

I'm a real psycho about celiac, sorry. The reason why is because (and many, if not most people don't know this) untreated celiac can lead to neurological damage. It's easy to find info just through google searches. Since I ended up with neuro damage from an accident, I hate to see anyone have to deal with it.

 

I was pretty teed off at my SIL when she was totally blase about how her kids were eating basically nothing *but* gluten products even after their dad had been diagnosed - and she was in no hurry to get them tested. Even now, with the boy officially having the sensitivity, she hasn't adjusted his diet at all. It's sad.

 

 

a

 

Off on a side note here a bit...

 

Asta, I would love to hear more about what you know. I am a Type 1 D (previous DKA) with funky brain scans that are somewhat like, but don't quite fit into the MS peg. Enough so, that one doc says positive for MS, another says no, they will not agree. Also, a host of other life altering symptoms. Right now, the main doc. labels the scan as mini strokes, but to my understanding, it does not fit that mold either. (Even to the extreme of sending me for a heart cath to fix a probable 'hole'). I have had the celiac blood test, it was done early on, it was neg. Have not had the biopsy. Can I PM you?

[asta]

Off on a side note here a bit...

 

Asta, I would love to hear more about what you know. I am a Type 1 D (previous DKA) with funky brain scans that are somewhat like, but don't quite fit into the MS peg. Enough so, that one doc says positive for MS, another says no, they will not agree. Also, a host of other life altering symptoms. Right now, the main doc. labels the scan as mini strokes, but to my understanding, it does not fit that mold either. (Even to the extreme of sending me for a heart cath to fix a probable 'hole'). I have had the celiac blood test, it was done early on, it was neg. Have not had the biopsy. Can I PM you?

 

You may. If I have any weird bit of info that may help, I'll be glad to share.

 

 

a

[jplain]

Originally Posted by LittleIzumi

If I remember right, you can be gluten intolerant but NOT have Celiac's, but if you have Celiac's you obviously can't tolerate gluten. Celiac's isn't just an intolerance to gluten (which is different and some people have that) but a whole immune response and causes other illnesses/issues, not just digestive.

Exactly.

 

I found an article on it, but it was so labyrinthine, I figured I'd get stoned for posting it, LOL.

 

 

a

Actually, non-celiac gluten intolerance (often referred to as non-celiac gluten sensitivity) appears to have an immune system component as well. Anti-gluten IgG antibodies in blood and/or stool are common in NCGS, though conventional physicians typically don't test for this. Sometimes anti-TTG antibodies are present as well. And although the symptoms may be less severe than celiac, NCGS is also not isolated to the GI tract.

 

The immune system has a huge presence in the gut. After all, the gut lining is what separates the outside from our insides. (If you think about it, the GI tract is just a tube that channels the outside world though our bodies.) If something non-infectious is going wrong in the gut, the immune system is often to blame.