Do you see cyber charter schools as a threat or as school choice?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I do not see public cyber charter schools as a threat or a trojan horse as I have heard some homeschoolers say.

 

My ds uses one and I knew full well that it is a public school at home and not homeschooling. I know that in PA we have many homeschoolers and many cyber schoolers. I do not see the laws supporting homeschoolers being taken away as some suggest due to cyber schools. Of course, it is prudent to be vigilant and let our represntatives know that we support homeschooling and cyber schooling IMO. I actually feel in PA that the schools and teachers would love to see public cyber schools gone much more so than homeschooling due to the money that follows the child with cyber schools . I feel that public cyber school option is in much more jeopardy so to speak at least here in PA.

 

Some say that cyber schools mislead parents that cyber schools is homeschooling. I have not found this to be the case. I have attended info sessions and researched the 11 cyber schools in PA and none of them misled me into thinking that it was homeschooling. It is true that they do market to homeschoolers though:).

 

I have heard another poster in another thread say that there is weekly visits with cyber schools. As far as weekly visits, there are no such visits in PA. I also find it hard to believe that such a thing exists elsewhere since that would be a lot of visits since in PA there are over 20,000 cyber schoolers.

 

I also find that there is quite a bit of flexibility with the cyber school option so far IMO. It is not for everyone but I am grateful that it is an option since it increases school choice. I am also an open to homeschooling and I am grateful that it is an option as well. Right now though, I enjoy the curriculum and like that my son has a school he can identify with. I also like that I can say that your teacher assigned this work when necessary. In the future, we may homeschool since I find that to be a very attractive option as well:).

 

 

I found an interesting article about a possible positive impact of cyber schools on regular public schools which I hope proves to be true. However, as it stands now most regular schools and teachers would love to see cyber schools gone and have attempted to influence legislation regarding the same. One poster in another thread said that families are pressured into using cyber schools when they leave public schools which I cannot imagine to be true since they hate the money leaving the school district;). However, many of the school districts in PA are starting to offer their own version of cyber schools so that they can keep the money:). It is possible they will try to steer families toward these if they leave to homeschool which is why all families need to be informed which is easy to do now a days:).

 

http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_241171236.html?start:int=0

 

I am an advocate for cyber schools and homeschooling. I think both increase choice which is a good thing;).

Edited August 30, 2009 by priscilla
grammar

[Perry]

The more choices we have, the better.

[jujsky]

I see it as a choice -- not a threat. In fact, I wish there were more cyber schools available in my area so I would have more of a choice.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

If one came along and I really liked the curriculum and there was a little flexibility I would take a serious look at it. Why not? I wouldn't want to be forced into it as my only choice if I want to homeschool, but I see nothing wrong with the concept. I think it can work for some people.

 

:iagree: I would not want to be forced into it as well. I think it is a good idea to be vigilant and not let our guard down so to speak with educational legislation:001_smile:.

[MomLovesClassics]

Florida did have more cyber school choice, but now they are taking away some of that choice. I believe South Carolina, now has more choice, they even offer Calvert as a choice. I am all for more choice. My concern is funding, some states are short on funds. Our state has furloughs at the moment.

[Samiam]

"I" see it as a choice. But I think that most homeschoolers, by our general nature, are more open to other's making their own decisions, at least for education. After all, we are all, as HSers, going against the general census on education. So of course, most of US welcome other's their freedom of educational choice, as well. You do want is best for your family, and I do what is best for mine. We are all happy.

 

The problem is on the other side of the fence, IMHO. Public School people, ie the families, the teachers, the admin, the government, DON'T see education as a choice. They DON'T think homeschooling is a valid choice, they DON'T think homeschooling can ever measure up to what they do in the public school system. So they do not champion the choice, it's their way is right, and our way is not valid.

 

Of course, I am making broad, general, sweeping statements, I know there are public school people who are HS friendly. I am not starting that argument, but making a generalized statement about the majority.

 

So I have always thought it just a bit "odd" that cyber schools have become so popular, and as a matter of fact, a mandated law here in FL, for the public school systems to offer. Because yes, they do control the curriculum, but the child is still "HOME" doing "SCHOOL", and that popular "problem" of homeschooling, ie socialization, would still be a "problem" ;).

 

In the end, I think the more the merrier, but I am careful to watch for actual homeschooling laws to be infringed upon, or taken away, to be replaced by a forced cyber-schooling only option. Things often go down the wrong path when Government starts to intervene, so it is something to be vigilant about.

[Samiam]

I don't think Florida has taken away options, just changed. Instead of having two Virtual schools, that you could choose from regardless of what county you lived in (which, btw, the State was paying for those two like they were their own school district), they instead put it on the individual school districts to have their own cyber schools (ie, the school districts have to pay for it now). But all school districts MUSt have one up and running by fall 2010, although several already have them up,

 

It really came down to $$ and the lack of it that most governments have these days.

 

For those that want to pull out of a public school and go to a virtual school, most in FL can do that.

 

Unfortunately for us true homeschoolers, who weren't in public school last year, that Cyber school option, at least in elementary, is not even offered as a option. We are ineligible.

 

Hmm, that's a little hint about the value that homeschoolers carry as carried to public school students, at least in Florida.

We pay our taxes, but because we did not actually utilize the resources that we paid for (ie schools) we can not utilize the cyber school option either. Hmm.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Florida did have more cyber school choice, but now they are taking away some of that choice. I believe South Carolina, now has more choice, they even offer Calvert as a choice. I am all for more choice. My concern is funding, some states are short on funds. Our state has furloughs at the moment.

 

This is true. In PA, the money mostly comes from the school district which is why they hate cyber schools and other charters. The school district must give the cyber school 75% of the typical cost per student in their school district to the cyber school. Then the state re-imburses them 25% of that costs:001_huh:.

 

I think the money should just come from the school district since we pay plenty of school taxes;).However, I do think the way they fund schools needs to be completely reformed IMHO.The schools get mad and hope to gut cyber school funding. One legislator tried to push legislation that would have capped cyber school "tuition" at ridiculously low payments in the ball park of $3000.00 per student. Thank goodness she did not succeed. Actually I have seen arguments that cyber schools will ultimately save money for the schools since they get to keep a portion of the money for a student that is not in the system anymore and I agree. The schools try to argue otherwise and say that we still have to have so many teachers and classrooms, etc.

Edited August 30, 2009 by priscilla
spelling

[Tap]

There several different styles of cyber schools and magnets in our area. Anything from K-12/Calvert where the parent is minimally involved, school district funding that helps buy curriculum an the parent can homeschool in whatever style they want as long as they check in weekly, homeschool classes similar to public school but only a couple days a week to coordinate with at home learning, Friday schools, and all variations in between ( all examples paid for by public school funds) . There are so many options in our area that you can find just about any format a parent could want, including just regular, good ole' fashioned homeschooling, private classes and co-ops.

 

I know some people who wouldn't have ever dreamed of homeschooling, but because of the options available, they have found a program that gave them the support they felt they needed to be successful at it. Not every homeschool mom wants to sit at a table and grade math sheets everyday, or feel confident in their own skills as teachers. These are the parents that have richly benefited from having an intermediate step between being on their own and just going with the flow and registering in public school.

 

I do think that charters and cyber schools has richened the homeschool community, not taken away from it. They have drawn in people of all 'homeschooling abilities', helped to make it more mainstream, and raised awareness of the choice of opting out of failing public schools.

[Plucky]

I think it is a choice. We also have parent partnerships here with the school districts. When they first started there were a lot of upset veteran homeschoolers. Meetings about how pps would tear apart homeschooling. A lot of homeschoolers are part of the pps now and love it.

 

Every year the requirements get a little more strict. Some families have considered not going back, but they usually do. It's a tricky thing cyber schools and pps. I think they offer greater choice but could homeschool rights become eroded? I think if they try most will stop using the programs. These programs are huge money makers for school districts. It doesn't behoove the district to upset parents, but what if they get greedy and want more control?

 

I don't have a problem with these programs but only time will tell how districts and the government act long term.

[Plucky]

This is true. In PA, the money mostly comes from the school district which is why they hate cyber schools and other charters. The school district must give the cyber school 75% of the typical cost per student in their school district to the cyber school. Then the state re-imburses them 25% of that costs:001_huh:.

 

I think the money should just come from the school district since we pay plenty of school taxes;).However, I do think the way they fund schools needs to be completely reformed IMHO.The schools get mad and hope to gut cyber school funding. One legislator tried to push legislation that would have capped cyber school "tuition" at ridiculously low payments in the ball park of $3000.00 per student. Thank goodness she did not succeed. Actually I have seen arguments that cyber schools will ultimately save money for the schools since they get to keep a portion of the money for a student that is not in the system anymore and I agree. The schools try to argue otherwise and say that we still have to have so many teachers and classrooms, etc.

 

Here the school gets money for a student they wouldn't otherwise get money for. So it is seen as a money maker. Nothing is taken away from the district. If anything the district is benefiting.

[dirty ethel rackham]

You know, I am all for more options and choices. The problem I see is the blurring the lines between cyberschooling (under the auspices of school officials) and homeschooling. In states that are heavily regulated, perhaps those lines don't matter because homeschoolers are accustomed to more outside control. However, in states where there is no distinction between homeschools and private schools, that blurring can create situations that are more dangerous to the freedoms of homeschoolers. While I don't oppose having this option, I feel that it requires homeschoolers to be more vigilant about educating school officials as well as legislators and protecting their freedoms.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

There several different styles of cyber schools and magnets in our area. Anything from K-12/Calvert where the parent is minimally involved, school district funding that helps buy curriculum an the parent can homeschool in whatever style they want as long as they check in weekly, homeschool classes similar to public school but only a couple days a week to coordinate with at home learning, Friday schools, and all variations in between ( all examples paid for by public school funds) . There are so many options in our area that you can find just about any format a parent could want, including just regular, good ole' fashioned homeschooling, private classes and co-ops.

 

I know some people who wouldn't have ever dreamed of homeschooling, but because of the options available, they have found a program that gave them the support they felt they needed to be successful at it. Not every homeschool mom wants to sit at a table and grade math sheets everyday, or feel confident in their own skills as teachers. These are the parents that have richly benefited from having an intermediate step between being on their own and just going with the flow and registering in public school.

 

I do think that charters and cyber schools has richened the homeschool community, not taken away from it. They have drawn in people of all 'homeschooling abilities', helped to make it more mainstream, and raised awareness of the choice of opting out of failing public schools.

 

In regards to K12 and the cyber school which my ds uses that uses k12, the parent does 99% of the instruction. There is the online component which gives the lesson plan for the parent. The online component also gives part of the lesson material. For example, the science and history may have the bulk of the text book online. It reads like a book and has some interactive components. There are also many books to supplement the online component. In fact, the bulk of the work is book work and not computer work. In regards to busy work I have not found it to be the case yet. Each lesson does offer a multitude of activities to support the objectives. However, in our school we are not required to do them all if the student has mastered the objectives. The teacher wants samples of the work monthly or bi-monthly and sometimes specifies certain work assignments. This may be different for middle school on up and I am sure varies from school to school. This is why I recommend asking lots of questions about the expectations of the school.

 

In regards to flexibility, I have found it to be so flexible that I will even substitute the online component with a good book as long as we meet the objectives. My ds is only entering 2nd grade and it does not take long at all to complete the lessons. In fact we have a lot of time to use other materials such as Webster's Speller 1908, McGuffey Readers, foreign languages, and many other books. We are also able to participate in an all day co-op every Tuesday and other home school activities during the school week. We are also able to spread our school work out 24/7 if desired. We do have to mark attendance on the computer every official school day but that only takes about 3 minutes to do. We can log hours 24/7.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

You know, I am all for more options and choices. The problem I see is the blurring the lines between cyberschooling (under the auspices of school officials) and homeschooling. In states that are heavily regulated, perhaps those lines don't matter because homeschoolers are accustomed to more outside control. However, in states where there is no distinction between homeschools and private schools, that blurring can create situations that are more dangerous to the freedoms of homeschoolers. While I don't oppose having this option, I feel that it requires homeschoolers to be more vigilant about educating school officials as well as legislators and protecting their freedoms.

 

I would not want to see any blurring of the lines as well and consequently I have been more vigilant. I fully support homeschooling and will probably do so in the future if I ever feel that our flexibility is infringed upon too much or if busy work or an inadequate curriculum ever becomes a problem.

 

I believe in letting our representatives know that we support homeschooling. I think it would be a travesty if homeschooling rights were ever taken away. However, I think that is unlikely to happen since there is such a large contingent of homeschoolers who seem eager to protect their rights:). I think any politician would be a fool to try and make homeschooling illegal;)

[Pamela H in Texas]

I really believe that there NEEDS to be A LOT of different options for different people. I think keeping the options at traditional public, private, and whatever homeschool is not sufficient. I love hearing about university model schools, cooperatives, even programs that offer odd times/days and such. I really think the best thing is to have as many options as humanly possible so that each individual student and family can be appropriately accomodated.

 

And my experience with the virtual academy? They tried to discourage me, a "veteran" homeschooler (my oldest was in 10th, I think, at the time I was looking into it for my son). They didn't want homeschoolers coming for free curriculum. They knew it caused issues for both the families and the school to have people trying to homeschool their own way, just with TXVA's materials. On top of that, the amount of flexibility within the curriculum and outside of it was wonderful. We had an hourly requirement but just about anything that could honestly be put into educational terms was fine. I knew going in we would have a handful of testing day so no big deal. My biggest pain was sending in work samples which is probably the easiest part for many people. For us, it was a VERY good experience. I'm glad we homeschooled traditionally before it and have since returned but the time we used the virtual academy was a good thing. It filled a need at that point in time.

 

To me, that final point is THE point of ANY schooling option. It needs to fill the needs of the individuals involved. I want MORE options to come about. I don't consider ANY of them to have anything to do with my homeschooling (unless, of course, I use them). I consider them great options for people to consider, try, use as they fill their individual needs.

 

Of course, I'm not anti-public school or anti-school-options. I think some people just want to be offended and/or worried.

[Pamela H in Texas]

You know, I am all for more options and choices. The problem I see is the blurring the lines between cyberschooling (under the auspices of school officials) and homeschooling. In states that are heavily regulated, perhaps those lines don't matter because homeschoolers are accustomed to more outside control. However, in states where there is no distinction between homeschools and private schools, that blurring can create situations that are more dangerous to the freedoms of homeschoolers. While I don't oppose having this option, I feel that it requires homeschoolers to be more vigilant about educating school officials as well as legislators and protecting their freedoms.

 

Actually, I would have guessed the problem was just the opposite!

 

In states where there is already a lot of oversight, a cyberschool oversight is going to be a lot closer to where the homeschoolers stand than they will be to where "free" homeschoolers (like Texans) stand.

 

In Texas, homeschoolers do whatever they want, however, whereever, whenever, etc. The school district doesn't even know many of us exist nor do they seem to care. I like it that way.

 

If someone chooses a virtual academy, they are agreeing to the curriculum (at least to a reasonable degree), the testing, the oversight, the requirements of the school just as if they were goign to the local public school where they deal with that curriculum as well as school times, tests, etc. That is LIGHTYEARS away from what homeschoolers enjoy.

 

There is no blur.

 

I have heard PLENTY of public school teachers have concerns about virtual academies though! THEY are worried about the "blur." They are worried about what it means regarding their jobs and such. Personally, I think they have much more to worry about than Texas homeschoolers! LOL

 

But I think any issue would be short lived anyway. I think there probably will be some issues as more and more options come up. I think these issues are more public school problems than anything, but regardless, there will have to be some tweaking of mindsets, jobs, etc. But as more and more of these options come about, things even out and more and more people are getting their needs met because there are enough options to choose from and people don't have to settle. I think that is only a good thing.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I really believe that there NEEDS to be A LOT of different options for different people. I think keeping the options at traditional public, private, and whatever homeschool is not sufficient. I love hearing about university model schools, cooperatives, even programs that offer odd times/days and such. I really think the best thing is to have as many options as humanly possible so that each individual student and family can be appropriately accomodated.

 

:iagree: I believe that school choice including homeschooling will help to improve public schools. Not every kid is going to fit into the cookie cutter mold so to speak IMHO. In the local public schools I feel there is no choice for my ds:sad: I do not believe that they would individualize his education in way that cyber schooling or homeschooling can.

 

I hope school choices will eventually force the public schools to improve their offerings so that kids will not have to fit into the cookie cutter mold. It is funny that many of the school districts are starting to offer their own version of cyber schools which I think is a step in the right direction. However, I still do not think most of them will not be as good or as innovative as the cyber charter schools unless their backs are against a wall so to speak. In fact, many of the districts want to see legislation that would say that if they offer their own cyber school then district students cannot choose a state-wide cyber charter school:(. The school districts want to take away choices whereas I think that more choices will force them to eventually improve or lose out. I think I recall of a European country (Belgium?) that has radical school choice and it forces the schools to please the parents:001_smile: However, I also realize that some of the school problems also have to do with parents not parenting.

[akmommy]

We belong to a Homeschool/PS partnership. Ours doesn't use a particular curriculum. We as parents are the teachers and are free to choose our own curriculum. The school district cannot pay for faith based materials of coarse and your child has to have 4 core classes paid for by the program to be considered full time. With some curriculums like Sonlight this easy to get around because you can list the secular materials they use on your ILP and purchase the IG and faith based materials youself. This came about as the result of a couple issues that came up 1) People were using the program solely to pay for sports and activities and 2) Another program was enrolling students that were already full time private school students. The alternative was to make independant homeschoolers and private schools register with the state (currently neither of those options require any sort of state involvment here). Something even those of us in the program didn't want to see happen.

We only have to have contact with our contact teacher once a month and this can be as simple as a phone call asking how things are going and if there is anything they can do for us or if we happen to be in the office just saying "Hi" to our contact teacher works. Nobody has ever been to our home.

The paperwork can be a PITA but it's not terrible. An ILP at the beginning of the year, quarterly work samples, and semester progress reports. High School paperwork can be a little more complicated, but that is because you have to show they are meeting state standards for graduation. They will pay for coarses at the CC and allow for duel credit.

Anyway at this point it works for us and has had no impact on independant homeschoolers. If that were to change we would drop it.

Edited August 30, 2009 by akmommy

[mom2att]

I recently heard Brenda Dickinson, who lobbies for homeschoolers in Florida through her Home Education Foundation, speak on this very topic. She outlined very carefully the areas of concern to homeschoolers regarding virtual charters.

 

In Florida, students in one type of virtual school (K-12 or Connections academy) are not considered homeschoolers, they are home-taught public school students. They are subject to calendar and hours requirements and required to take the FCAT. As legislators see their requirements being readily accepted by parents in these programs, they may decide that if it's good enough for the goose, it's good enough for the gander and pass these same requirements on to homeschool families not enrolled in these programs. I personally enjoy not being subject to such requirements, not to mention such freedoms as being able to choose my own curriculum and the pace or level at which my children work. I have generally viewed these types of programs as just another educational choice, but if there is validity to the point that my freedoms may be squeezed as these programs increase, I think that is cause for concern.

 

Mrs. Dickinson outlined the issue much more clearly than I ever could, and definitely brought up points regarding this type of program that I hadn't considered. I wish I had the ability to explain it more succinctly!

[Pajama Mama]

We use a cyberschool here in PA. We used to hs when living in Delaware. When we moved it seemed a good option for us. PA does require alot(compared to DE anyway). My middle child has alot of medical issues. When he's healthy it isn't a problem. When he's ill, it is great to have a curriculum more or less spelled out for us. It keeps us on track. The cyberschool provides the tests that PA requires. They also provided ds with speech therapy. We have been with them going on 5 years. I like the school very much. We do fit in our own stuff and take multiple field trips. But honestly, if we were still in Delaware; we wouldn't be with a cyberschool. Ahhh, the good old days...

[Ellie]

I see it as a threat, primarily because government-funded cyber/charter schools don't make it clear that their students are public school students, not homeschooled students. That's dishonest, IMHO, and I believe it is intentional, especially in states like California and Texas, which have no oversite of homeschoolers at all; charter schools provide the government that oversight...and control.

[RoughCollie]

We use a public cyber charter school, beginning this year, now that we have moved to PA.

 

I'm glad to have the option because I will have to manage the book business this year and it will save me time.

 

We haven't done this before, and I hope the boys really like it and thrive.

 

Our school makes it very plain that it is a public school and that the students are not homeschooled.

[akmommy]

I see it as a threat, primarily because government-funded cyber/charter schools don't make it clear that their students are public school students, not homeschooled students.

 

This may be true for some programs but ours makes it very clear when you enroll that your kids will be counted as public school students.

 

As far as control I guess the amount varies quite a bit from state to state and program to program. We are free to choose our curriculum and how we teach it. High Schoolers must meet state standards because as a public school program the goal is to earn a PS Diploma but even within those standards there is still quite a bit of freedom as to how they are met.

[Mommyof4ks]

I like choices. :D If it becomes a forced thing, then I will have a problem with it.

[Carrie12345]

I'm another PA resident who sees the cyber charter option as a good thing.

 

My dd used one for kindergarten two years ago. My ds used one for 5th grade last year. They served their purposes for us at the time.

 

I don't plan to put any of my kids back into a cyber charter, but I fully support their existence for those who choose to use them.

 

The only time I've seen the "line" between homeschooling and public cyber schooling blurred has been in social situations. We participated in homeschool groups and labeled ourselves as homeschoolers to strangers/near-strangers (and I wrote about that in Secular Homeschooling Magazine).

 

Cyber charter schools are advertized all over the place here. On the radio, on t.v., in newspapers. They make it very clear that they are "public school at home". The registration paperwork repeatedly mentions their status as a public school and adherence to ps regulations. It's not fuzzy at all.

[angela in ohio]

It can be a threat. I am basing the following comments on the way the homeschool regulations and charter schools work in Ohio. It varies in other states.

 

(1.) Parents who call themselves homeschoolers, but are really using a public cyber charter, confuse people. I am sick of being asked if I get the "free computers the government gives to homeschoolers." It is creating an impression that all homeschoolers get government assistance for it, which looks bad when people consider that schools are having to make cuts.

 

(2.) OP, you haven't been around long enough for this, but when most of the public online schools started, they did advertise as being "homeschools." They were sued in the state of Ohio and forced to remove that wording from their sites. They still use it when speaking to potential customers, though.

 

(3.) In at least one of the cyber charter schools in Ohio, parents are given money to recruit other parents. They join homeschool groups and prey on vulnerable homeschool families. When doubt sets in, they are talked into giving up homeschooling by one of the cyber parents.

 

(4.) The biggest threat: In the government's (and the public's) view, why won't all homeschoolers get under the umbrella of regulation if some are willing to? What are we hiding? Those other homeschoolers are perfectly happy to be in our program. All homeschoolers should do the same. It is a slippery slope that ends in a lack of freedom. The public schools tried to get homeschoolers for years (for the good of our poor children,) but we used our political and organizational skills to avoid them. So now they are bribing us with free computers and money for piano lessons. And it is working.

 

This one is ethical, not about the way it hurts homeschoolers: These programs, as opposed to homeschoolers, do take funds from the public schools that are desperately needed. Homeschoolers save the schools money overall (at a state or federal level.) The charters that are privately held companies, and they spend a paltry sum on the students and keep the rest for profit. I am a big proponent of both capitalism and school choice, but this is not okay with me. The schools are educating my children's future spouses, co-workers, friends, etc., and they need all the help they can get. They can't afford to lose funds to charters. It would be one thing if the schools were doing a better job, but around here the brick and mortar charter schools hire teachers who can't get jobs in the public school (or were fired there,) and their results are poor. I can't imagine it is much different for the online ones.

 

I was fortunate enough when I first started homeschooling to meet many long-term homeschoolers. They gave me a great vision of the struggles that led to our homeschool freedoms. I fear that this appreciation is lost on many new homeschoolers, and we all will pay the price for this short-sightedness.

Edited August 30, 2009 by angela in ohio

[DawnL]

I think the existence alone of cyber schools isn't a threat. It does offer more choices, which is a good thing.

 

I think the danger comes from the fact that these schools are advertised as homeschooling. The curriculum is still chosen for you. You are required to teach a set amount of hours that are determined by administrators, just like brick and mortar public schools.

 

If I google "Washington homeschool" the first things that come up are these cyber schools. For someone that is new to homeschooling (we are officially starting next week) it is very easy to think that these cyber schools are the only good choices.

 

The schools set the curriculum, your time used, and, here in Washington state, you do have a teacher check in with you each week. Now, I don't think this is in person, at your house, but via email and/or phone. Every week.

 

While these cyber schools are definitely a good choice for some (my dd's friend did this last year, but is going back to public school this year) I think this would be a terrible choice for my ds, who is starting kindergarten this year. My son has a sensory processing disorder, and filling out worksheets as his education would be torture for him. We are choosing to do things as kinesthetically as possible.

 

Cyber charter schools should advertise themselves as such. Here in Washington state, the Homeschool association here does everything they can to make certain the cyber charter schools do not get homeschool advertising time. They were not allowed at our homeschooling convention in June.

[TravelingChris]

We have used Florida Virtual School and it is not a charter school. In Florida, you can be a public school student, private school student or a homeschooler and use Florida Virtual. They do not award degrees. You can take as amny or as few classes as you want. It is much more like taking a class at any other place be it community college, co-op or any other place since the parent in homeschooling is still in charge but the get an additional resource for a class or five. My dd took two classes from them and no one, including HSLDA, had any problems with this option. You can use it if you want to or not. It didn't make you a public school student.

[Renee in NC]

We have used Florida Virtual School and it is not a charter school. In Florida, you can be a public school student, private school student or a homeschooler and use Florida Virtual. They do not award degrees. You can take as amny or as few classes as you want. It is much more like taking a class at any other place be it community college, co-op or any other place since the parent in homeschooling is still in charge but the get an additional resource for a class or five. My dd took two classes from them and no one, including HSLDA, had any problems with this option. You can use it if you want to or not. It didn't make you a public school student.

 

That is different than the other virtual schools - Connections is one and I don't know the other. They are available for K-12, but 1st and up had to have been in ps the previous year to qualify. In those, your child *is* a ps student.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Just to say again, since people insist on claiming otherwise. Each of the homeschoolers I've known who have tried TXVA (and I know several) have actually had TXVA staff be VERY firm, almost to the point of trying to dissuade us, that TXVA is definitely public school and homeschoolers MUST be aware of how it works and be willing to do it as public school. They outline all the requirements, especially time and progress, CLEARLY.

 

That isn't to say that it isn't ever presented as "homeschooling." As someone mentioned, all you have to do is put it in a search engine and see that it is. Also, parents who use virtual academies often say they are homeschooling. When we joined TXVA in Oct 2007, I did make an effort to make the distinction. I also don't say my daughter is homeschooling (she's been in college last year and this year). But look at all the people who use American School and Calvert and such and claim homeschooling; they are actually ENROLLED in schools. Of course, homeschoolers have less of an issue with that as they aren't public schools, but....

[KarenNC]

I see it as a threat, primarily because government-funded cyber/charter schools don't make it clear that their students are public school students, not homeschooled students. That's dishonest, IMHO, and I believe it is intentional, especially in states like California and Texas, which have no oversite of homeschoolers at all; charter schools provide the government that oversight...and control.

 

I haven't seen the materials from any of these groups, as cybercharters aren't allowed here. From what I have read and heard discussed, however, I think in many cases it may be as much of an issue of *homeschoolers* not realizing (or wanting to accept) that if one takes money from the government, then one is going to have to accept a measure of oversight and control.

 

I see the same thing when folks around here start saying that they ought to get tax credits or deductions for school materials because they pay taxes to support the schools, but then are shocked when one mentions that probably would mean a dramatic increase in government oversight and control of the ways in which they would qualify for those benefits. Too many folks appear to want to simply be given the money or materials to use as they please, but not have any commensurate measure of accountability for the use of public funds.

[QueenCat]

The more options parents have, the better, in my opinion.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

 

This one is ethical, not about the way it hurts homeschoolers: These programs, as opposed to homeschoolers, do take funds from the public schools that are desperately needed. Homeschoolers save the schools money overall (at a state or federal level.) The charters that are privately held companies, and they spend a paltry sum on the students and keep the rest for profit. I am a big proponent of both capitalism and school choice, but this is not okay with me. The schools are educating my children's future spouses, co-workers, friends, etc., and they need all the help they can get. They can't afford to lose funds to charters. It would be one thing if the schools were doing a better job, but around here the brick and mortar charter schools hire teachers who can't get jobs in the public school (or were fired there,) and their results are poor. I can't imagine it is much different for the online ones.

 

 

Some would argue that charter schools and cyber charter schools actually save the regular schools money in the end since they end up spending about 75% of what it costs to educate in regular schools. The regular schools insist that this is not true, but I cannot believe this.

 

In regards to the expenses of cyber schools, I believe that they spend a fair amount. My school gives us a loaner computer, printer, ink, re-imbursement for internet service, a multitude of books, DVD's, CD's, art supplies galore, science experiment equipment, manipulatives, work books, etc. The student to teacher ratio is about 50:1 from what I understand. They offer online classes and often you have the choice to have classes with mostly teacher led online classes. My school has optional classes for this and only 1-2 mandatory class/conferences online per month which is what I prefer. They have face to face testing about 3 times per year and must rent facilities in multiple locations all over the state to accommodate this. They facilitate and lead outings on at least a monthly all over the state. For special ed services, I have heard of in home or near by facilities being used for a gamut of services in addition to extra online classes that may be offered. Many have tutoring, office hours available to students and parents on a regular basis. Some even offer blended programs as an option in several locations through out the state for on-site learning. So really IMHO I do not think they are skimping.

 

 

IN regards to hiring teachers who were not good enough for the regular schools, I am not sure if I believe this. In a near by town, there has been a scandal brewing over bribes being taken to get jobs as teachers in regular schools and I suspect that this is wide spread. In fact, I have often heard that it is who you know that gets you the job locally and not your qualifications per se. Many cyber school teachers actually may be enticed by the opportunity to work from home on a frequent basis which cyber schools offer them. I know that my sons 2 teachers enjoyed this as well as the innovation that the school supplied.

 

In regards to work sheets, that is not what the k12 curriculum is all about. They do supply many work book activities in addition to many other activities to support their lessons. We are not required to do them all if my ds masters all of the objectives. They tell you to skip to the assessment if the child has mastered the objectives in most cases. They occasionally want certain assignments handed in but most of the time I select which math and language arts assignment to hand in.

 

I definitely support homeschooling but I also support school choice:).

Edited August 31, 2009 by priscilla
spelling

[rafiki]

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[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Just to say again, since people insist on claiming otherwise. Each of the homeschoolers I've known who have tried TXVA (and I know several) have actually had TXVA staff be VERY firm, almost to the point of trying to dissuade us, that TXVA is definitely public school and homeschoolers MUST be aware of how it works and be willing to do it as public school. They outline all the requirements, especially time and progress, CLEARLY.

 

That isn't to say that it isn't ever presented as "homeschooling." As someone mentioned, all you have to do is put it in a search engine and see that it is. Also, parents who use virtual academies often say they are homeschooling. When we joined TXVA in Oct 2007, I did make an effort to make the distinction. I also don't say my daughter is homeschooling (she's been in college last year and this year). But look at all the people who use American School and Calvert and such and claim homeschooling; they are actually ENROLLED in schools. Of course, homeschoolers have less of an issue with that as they aren't public schools, but....

 

:iagree: The cyber schools are very clear here in PA that they are public schools and and their requirements of students as public schools. It is true that they will market to homeschoolers to a certain extent, but that is not the same as misleading them. I do not see a problem with marketing to homeschoolers and these schools also market to the general public. I have heard their ads on radio, etc. However, I have found that when you check out each schools web sites or info sessions they are very clear that they are public schools and have requirements such as mandatory testing and what not.

[angela in ohio]

Some would argue that charter schools and cyber charter schools actually save the regular schools money in the end since they end up spending about 75% of what it costs to educate in regular schools. The regular schools insist that this is not true, but I cannot believe this.

 

 

That's my point. Most here actually spend less than that. Where does the rest go - to the cyber charter company (not back into the public schools.)

[Peek a Boo]

:: sittin' on the bench w/ priscilla on this one :: :D

[Mama Bear]

Angela, I'm answering some of your points (I think :D) and just posting random thoughts that popped into my head as I was thinking about the OP.

 

In regards to other states (PM me for further details), my kids are registered as 99% PS students, 1% HS students. This allows me to select the testing type (required here, regardless) and avoid the boondoggle of the state test, which is widely regarded as a failure. This means that the dollar amount set by the state for school districts to receive per capita is split between my kids and the actual school district. We end up with money for music and swim lessons and curriculum and the school district has been able to hire another teacher, do repairs to buildings and hire help for our program. The teacher we speak with weekly (phone or email) homeschooled her three through highschool and is proud to see them finishing college/grad school now. She specializes in middle school English at the brick and mortar school she's based in, and has been an invaluable resource.

 

The other personnel are fully aware that we use Rod and Staff as part of our language arts program. Most of them, homeschooling their own kids currently, also use religious curriculum. As long as the district isn't asked to pay for it, no one cares. Just as it should be, in my opinion.

 

It is strange to me to think that because I'm enrolled with a public school district as well as the state homeschool association and would receive $25 for a family that I referred to the school district that I am in collusion with something to which I have not consented.

 

In regards to whether or not it is appropriate for a parent to refer to themselves/their family as homeschooling under these or similar circumstances? I choose and implement the curriculum. The district has such minimal say over educational guidelines that I consider it to be completely insignificant. I do a few hours of paperwork every year in exchange for PS funds which enable me to keep my little group learning the way I want them to.

 

For us, it's a huge win. Certainly the public could be better informed (when is that not the case? ;) ), but to me that just proves the need for options across the spectrum, including charters/cyber charters. I know folks involved in teaching and on the board at a particular charter (which offers few actual site-based classes -- their goal is to enable/support homeschooling families, which they do with things like SOTW curriculum, lego clubs, robotics and biology classes, etc.). There's probably not a better self-regulating, more ethical group around than those particular people. Anecdotally, they are a great group of people to know and have involved in education at large. They don't begin to represent the whole gamut, of course, but I think it's important to recognize that there are good people working hard for kids, wherever they are, whatever their role, even if it's not something we want for our own families.

 

One last thing. I was homeschooled when it wasn't technically legal to do so, in a state that didn't (at the time) appreciate parents deviating from the PS objectives. I remember clearly the conversations my mom had with other homeschool families about what to do if the state came to visit. Homeschooling has always been one of the options I had in my head for my kids, well before I had any children. It is a fantastic option, but it isn't the only one, and in some situations, it isn't a viable one. I appreciate therefore all the more, the fact that people blazed trails in order to give their kids the best that they could, and I believe our setup contributes to the same ideals.

 

Blessings to you. :)

[mommaduck]

I view it as an additional choice. The pros and cons can be weighed by each family and their needs. I agree though, that I have an issue with their aggressive advertisements for "homeschooling" your kids. They make it sound as though it is traditional homeschooling. It's not. It's either PS or Charter at home.

[angela in ohio]

Angela...

 

This means that the dollar amount set by the state for school districts to receive per capita is split between my kids and the actual school district....

 

I choose and implement the curriculum. The district has such minimal say over educational guidelines that I consider it to be completely insignificant.

 

Both of these are totally different than the way it works in Ohio. The curriculum is set and given to the parents. The charters are administered by a private company. As I said, my comments are based on the way te programs work here.