Any experience with hoarders?

[Cricket]

We know some ladies who have the most awful house. There is a path literally about a foot wide through the house. The only place they sit down is on their beds and even that is just a corner. We went over today because the one lady fell twice and couldn't get up. (I'm pretty sure it's due to the new medication she started taking and she's going to see her doctor very soon.) I want to do something for them but don't know what to do. On my way out the first time I took an empty box and a couple of empty water bottles. Neither one of them saw me. On our way out the second time I took four shopping bags out. All four were filled with garbage like empty cat food cans. One lady saw me and said, "Oh I don't think that's garbage." I answered, "It's just a bunch of empty cat food cans. Don't worry. I'll get it for you" and quickly breezed out the door. It really bothered her but I certainly wasn't going to hand them back to her so she could stack them back in the pile in her hallway. This house is literally full from floor to ceiling. I don't know of any family to call. I told dh that I should call the senior helpline but he said no. That that would only cause them a lot of trouble. I know it's a mental thing so I don't know that getting an over-worked case worker will get them the help they need. And if they found out I called they might never trust us again. WWYD? Any advice?

[Cedarmom]

My aunt was like that. She would break down in tears if we suggested donating some of the stuff. I don't think there is any easy was to do it. But, if they are falling over stuff, it is a need. You can try and ask them if you can just do a box or two a week, and just clear paths. I don't have much real advice to give you. You can try and be lovingly firm about it. But if they won't let you, there just isn't much to do.

[stephanie]

That's a tough one because it does serve an emotional need for hoarders. I believe for them it's not as easy as for most of us when we just throw something away. They need someone who can talk with them to show them how their hoarding serves a deeper need, but that may be difficult if you're not family. Then if they are older that may even be more difficult if they've lived their entire lives that way. I used to have a patient who was a hoarder her entire life. She was in her 80's and there was no changing it. I would try to clean up when I was there, but then if I did too much she wouldn't know where her things were. There is some sort of method to the madness. If you can establish a strong relationship with them then you could maybe help by talking with them. I'm not sure, but it may take a professional. I hope it works out for you...and them!

[stephanie]

We know some ladies who have the most awful house. There is a path literally about a foot wide through the house. The only place they sit down is on their beds and even that is just a corner. We went over today because the one lady fell twice and couldn't get up. (I'm pretty sure it's due to the new medication she started taking and she's going to see her doctor very soon.) I want to do something for them but don't know what to do. On my way out the first time I took an empty box and a couple of empty water bottles. Neither one of them saw me. On our way out the second time I took four shopping bags out. All four were filled with garbage like empty cat food cans. One lady saw me and said, "Oh I don't think that's garbage." I answered, "It's just a bunch of empty cat food cans. Don't worry. I'll get it for you" and quickly breezed out the door. It really bothered her but I certainly wasn't going to hand them back to her so she could stack them back in the pile in her hallway. This house is literally full from floor to ceiling. I don't know of any family to call. I told dh that I should call the senior helpline but he said no. That that would only cause them a lot of trouble. I know it's a mental thing so I don't know that getting an over-worked case worker will get them the help they need. And if they found out I called they might never trust us again. WWYD? Any advice?

 

Also, if they rent their home or apt. you could discretely notify the landlord to check it out who may then require them to clean up a bit. Just an idea, but I would still be careful. That would be terrible if they got tossed out.

[OrganicAnn]

Can you contact her doctor and ask if there is any medication that would help?

 

I'm sure there is a support organization you could find that might have suggestions.

[Cricket]

Also, if they rent their home or apt. you could discretely notify the landlord to check it out who may then require them to clean up a bit. Just an idea, but I would still be careful. That would be terrible if they got tossed out.

 

They own their home. It's just a single-wide mobile home. That is why I hesitate to call anyone because I wouldn't want someone to come in and just start throwing things out. I think it would devastate them. I could tell me taking those bags out really disturbed her. And it really was garbage!

[newlifemom]

BTDT, you need to tread lightly. Trust me. The only thing I can offer is for you to find out who they really trust and respect. That person will probably be the only one they will listen to. Plus, do not do anything behind their back. You will regret it. Talking to a doctor of theirs might help, but I am not sure. Good luck. If you figure anything out let me know I have a few people like that in my life.

[Cricket]

BTDT, you need to tread lightly. Trust me. The only thing I can offer is for you to find out who they really trust and respect. That person will probably be the only one they will listen to. Plus, do not do anything behind their back. You will regret it. Talking to a doctor of theirs might help, but I am not sure. Good luck. If you figure anything out let me know I have a few people like that in my life.

 

Thanks, I hope I didn't make a mistake taking those bags out! I just couldn't let her put them back in the hall way though! I'll keep talking with them and see if I can figure out anything.

[Mandamom]

You could be dealing with a few things but OCD is usually a big issue with hoarders. There is some recent research indicating that there might be some genetic links to hoarding.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you really upset the lady by removing her things even if that's what you didn't intend to do. It sounds as if they are long-term hoarders and breaking the cycle will be extremely difficult.

 

A few years ago Oprah did a big clean-up for a hoarder and within several months the mess was back. Actually, I remember that the cleaning team left a pizza box on the kitchen counter and the owner never got rid of it after they left. Later Oprah tried it again with someone else and added a counseling session which resulted in a slightly better outcome.

 

Anyway, I think you need to do some research to find out more of what you are dealing with. Use search terms hoarding and also squalor.

 

Can you befriend them, if you haven't already, and gently let them know that you are worried about their living conditions and that you'd love to help them when they might be ready. You can also pass along the squalorsurvivors website so that they can go through that when and if they are up to it.

 

Cleaning for them probably won't help unless they are ready for it.

[Wyndie]

My grandmother was/is like this. When she lived in her house, I couldn't even stand to go in the house and I definately never took my kids in there. It seemed like a safety issue to me with all the trash and yuck that goes with that sort of thing. That said, my mother tried her best to get my gma to let that stuff go and she just wouldn't. A few years ago she sold her house and had to get rid of all her stuff. My parents rented a storage shed and her stuff lives there.

 

The assisted living facility she lives in now has very strict rules about not letting the elders there hoard stuff and they do room inspections periodically so my mom goes over there often and throws stuff away. It is not easy on my gma but she has no choice if she wants to live in the facility.

 

We have found that if something in her storage shed can be used by one of her g-children, she will part with it gladly. But she won't part with it to Goodwill, Salvation Army or the trashcan. Maybe if you can find someone they love enough to share their stuff with, they would be willing to part with it. And whether or not that someone kept it would be their own business.

 

((hugs)) It's a really hard situation. The only reason we found a solution was b/c it was dictated by her living facility. Doesn't sound like you have that option.,

[zaichiki]

Call! (Did you say senior helpline?)

 

They can't help themselves. They need help. What happens if one of them needs an ambulance, but they can't get the stretcher in?

 

My f-i-l is a hoarder. Big time. PTSD (He was young during the seige of Leningrad.) Unfortunately, it took a threatened eviction from his landlord and several courtdates, plus family constantly removing things on the sly, hired help to remove junk, his wife moving out (to another apartment where she could actually walk and sit) and being (himself) deathly ill before change could happen.

 

They need help. (It is a mental illness.)

 

They need help.

 

:)

 

We know some ladies who have the most awful house. There is a path literally about a foot wide through the house. The only place they sit down is on their beds and even that is just a corner. We went over today because the one lady fell twice and couldn't get up. (I'm pretty sure it's due to the new medication she started taking and she's going to see her doctor very soon.) I want to do something for them but don't know what to do. On my way out the first time I took an empty box and a couple of empty water bottles. Neither one of them saw me. On our way out the second time I took four shopping bags out. All four were filled with garbage like empty cat food cans. One lady saw me and said, "Oh I don't think that's garbage." I answered, "It's just a bunch of empty cat food cans. Don't worry. I'll get it for you" and quickly breezed out the door. It really bothered her but I certainly wasn't going to hand them back to her so she could stack them back in the pile in her hallway. This house is literally full from floor to ceiling. I don't know of any family to call. I told dh that I should call the senior helpline but he said no. That that would only cause them a lot of trouble. I know it's a mental thing so I don't know that getting an over-worked case worker will get them the help they need. And if they found out I called they might never trust us again. WWYD? Any advice?

[stripe]

I wish I could see this movie.

http://www.mymothersgardenmovie.com/

 

Anyhow they have some hoarding resources on the website.

 

That Oprah show was .... well, shocking is the only word. I saw them both, strangely enough, and the second lady in particular was really something. I hope she was able to stick with it. She had seriously thousands of purses, and so much nasty stuff (moldy things) growing in that house, it was awful.

[teachermom2834]

My MIL is a hoarder. It is absoutely awful. She had breast cancer and went through chemo and radiation sleeping on a corner of her couch. Her bed was too covered with junk to sleep and you could barely get the door to her bedroom open. It was horrible. I can't imagine dealing with a serious illness without a bed to sleep in! We offered to leave the kids with my parents for a weekend and go to her (many states away) and clean her house up. We told her we would HAVE to throw things away, though. She wouldn't even consider it.

 

There has been nothing we can do for her. She will save junk mail, old newspapers, etc. She will not let you throw anything away.

 

She will sometimes take a day off work to clean up. She will be very proud if she gets one garbage bag out of the house after working all day.

 

I seem to have broken dh of it but it was a big issue when we got married. I got him to stop doing it in the house and went out to his car one day to put something in the trunk and found stuff he'd been hoarding there. We've finally limited it to dh's nightstand and his half of the closet. It is sick, though.

 

I have many friends who have this issue in their families. Sadly, no one I know has found a way to help. If you get any answers, please share.

 

Marie

[mrsrevmeg]

My mother is this way. She has clothing patterns that went out of style when I was a child. She has magazines from that era, too. If I say anything she calls me a "clean freak who does not see the sentimental value in anything". If my kids say something about not having anywhere to to sit (or not wanting to go to the bathroom in her house) she calls them spoiled brats. Guess you can see why I am actually closer to my MIL than my real mother. My point is, these ladies may not take kindly to your help. If there is somewhere you can call, just do it. Call from a pay phone and don't give them your name.

[SapphireStitch]

My grandma was like this. My grandpa had his own bedroom and his workshop and he kept them very sparsely furnished and perfectly clean. From what I know of my grandma's past there were a lot of really sad things that had happened to her over her life that probably contributed to her needing to find security in having stuff around her. Grandpa was very patient with her and loved her in spite of this problem.

 

They retired to the south, but when they started having health problems my aunt & uncle had to go down and help them get ready to move back nearer to family. They literally had to go behind Grandma's back and take bags of garbage out through windows to get the place emptied out. The worst part was, though, that they had to sort through every single bag and box of stuff...because mixed in with all the dirty kleenex and cans were pieces of Grandma's jewelry and other heirlooms!

 

I think you've got to be gentle with them and respect their right to their own way of life...up to the point where it starts causing them problems. If their health is in danger then I think you need to involve social services or take measures to find out if there is family who can help. (BTW, that's what happened w/my grandparents. Some neighbors were helping them because they got sickly, and those same neighbors figured out how to get in touch with my mom and my uncle. But Grandma & Grandpa hadn't mentioned to any of the the family that there was anything wrong! These ladies could also have family out there who are not aware of the problems.)

[stripe]

On the Oprah show, that organizing guy (Peter Walsh) claims that a large number of hoarders have health problems, mostly respiratory in nature.

[katemary63]

My own mother is a hoarder. So was her mother. It is genetic. It is OCD. They can not help it without medication and behavior therapy. My mother will get niether. She lives in a trailer. It is beyond run down because she can't have anyone in to fix anything. Only a couple of her grandchildren are allowed in and they help her with some things. I live in another state and when I come to town to visit, we meet at restaurants. She won't let me in her home. My youngest daughter has never been there. I have talked to her about all this. She has seen the shows on TV that document other hoarders and their clean up and recovery. She literally HATES the man on the show who comes in and cleans up for people. She says that would be her worst nightmare. I have told her I would help her clean up by doing the leg work while she looked at each thing and decided where it should go. She broke down in tears and said no, that would be horrible for her. She won't go to the doctor.

 

So, my mom will need hip replacement soon. She is very overweight and has bad hips and can barely walk now. I don't even know how she gets her self into the shower. When she goes in for surgery, she will have to rehab in a center because of her home conditions and the fact that none of us can take care of her because of her size. When she's in there, we will move her stuff, sell most of it and get her into an appartment. At that point she will have no choice in the matter. I feel for her, but she doesn't have the right to put all that on us and if she can't take care of herself, then we are going to have to take care of her the best way we can. She will be devastated. She feels the NEED to sort through EVERY SINGLE THING one item at at a time and talk about it for 10 minutes before she can let it go. For example, she had a stack of daily newspapers TO THE CEILING, I kid you not! This was years ago. I said I was going to take them all to recycling and she had a fit, said there were recipes in the food section she wanted and some articles she wanted to clip and save. OMG. It is horrible. There is no reasoning with it. It's medication or hysteria.

[Joanne]

Wow. So much pain, fear, worry and secrecy represented in this thread. Hugs and prayers to everyone whose lives are touched by this.

[dangermom]

This is a really difficult issue and it's a mental illness, as others have said. You might like to look at Squalor Survivors, esp. the "It's not me" page.

[iluvmy4blessings]

This sounds like a difficult thing for so many. I know it is hard especially when someone is trying to help elderly relatives.

Edited August 30, 2009 by iluvmy4blessings

[Joanne]

On the other hand, if it is a true issue of hoarding or having a hard time getting rid of things maybe they need Flylady!!!

 

"True" hoarding or not being able to get rid of things, and manifestations combined with acquiring things is usually a physical/brain functioning problem.

 

In the cases of "true" hoarding, it can also be a mental illness that needs treatment. Most people can't get the "motivation" and take care of it themselves.

 

Even depression related progressive "messie" often requires professional/medical/pharmaceutical intervention.

[KidsHappen]

Hoarding is a form of OCD and is one of the most tenacious forms. It is one of the most difficult mental illnesses to treat and a complete cure is almost unheard of. My mother was a hoarder and cleaning out her house after she passed away was a monumental task. Because of this I am super obsessive about not letting clutter accumulate. I have a few children who are mild packrats and it is very difficult for me be even handed with them on this issue. I know that because of genetics that if I try to control their clutter too much it could have a rebound effect causing them to hoard later in life. It is a delicate balance to maintain everyone's mental health on this issue. I feel for anyone who has to deal with it.

[Lovedtodeath]

"True" hoarding or not being able to get rid of things, and manifestations combined with acquiring things is usually a physical/brain functioning problem.

 

In the cases of "true" hoarding, it can also be a mental illness that needs treatment. Most people can't get the "motivation" and take care of it themselves.

 

Even depression related progressive "messie" often requires professional/medical/pharmaceutical intervention.

THANK YOU!

[tex-mex]

You could be dealing with a few things but OCD is usually a big issue with hoarders. There is some recent research indicating that there might be some genetic links to hoarding.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you really upset the lady by removing her things even if that's what you didn't intend to do. It sounds as if they are long-term hoarders and breaking the cycle will be extremely difficult.

 

A few years ago Oprah did a big clean-up for a hoarder and within several months the mess was back. Actually, I remember that the cleaning team left a pizza box on the kitchen counter and the owner never got rid of it after they left. Later Oprah tried it again with someone else and added a counseling session which resulted in a slightly better outcome.

 

Anyway, I think you need to do some research to find out more of what you are dealing with. Use search terms hoarding and also squalor.

 

Can you befriend them, if you haven't already, and gently let them know that you are worried about their living conditions and that you'd love to help them when they might be ready. You can also pass along the squalorsurvivors website so that they can go through that when and if they are up to it.

 

Cleaning for them probably won't help unless they are ready for it.

 

It is usually a genetic thing. My mom was a hoarder. When she died, it was a nightmare to clean up her home. I also have OCD but have a compulsion to keep things neat and clutter-free ironically due to my childhood. Been on Luvox for years and it helps. However, when I am stressed, I can't stop my mind from thinking too much on overdrive and get a peaceful night's rest. (Ruminations. Pure torture!!) I have a compulsion to repeatedly check things like the door is locked, stove ignitors off, lights off, child is safe in bed, etc. I don't believe the door is locked -- but I just checked it 30 seconds ago. And I check it again. (I nowadays stop at 2 checks... a daily routine tho' that my hubby and son put up with lovingly.) Plus I obsess waaay too much on my facial imperfections similar to a BDD. Believe it or not, my compulsions are way better than what it was as a child and young adult without help or meds. I was miserable. And I thought it was my own fault. Finally, decades later, there is a label for it -- OCD.

 

My son has OCD too and so far doesn't show signs of hoarding. But he does not want to give away his old toys, magazines, books, or items in his room -no clutter yet- but part of me is really alarmed at this. Like feelings of my mom all over again. But then he is only 14, an only child, and very indulged. LOL I am a natural worrier. Recently I had him sit with me and decide what small toys were going to Goodwill and what toys stayed during our move. I made him sit with me again and pick which magazines he really wanted and which ones to toss. Same with the stuffed animals. But omigosh does it concern me he has so many toys. Eeeek. (He's also the only grandchild and very spoiled by grandparents from hubby's side.)

 

Lately, the medical folk argue over whether hoarding or trichtillomania (hair pulling) are related to OCD or should be categorized as their own disorder. Meds help somewhat -- but the real help comes from CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy). For myself, I do check... but instead of being trapped in checking the door is locked all day long -- I tell myself after 2 checks, "It's locked. Do something else." Early on, it was very hard to ignore the compulsion of wanting to check that crazy door -- but now I tell myself I checked it twice and that is that. I get teased by hubby over fretting if the garage door is closed. He does indulge me in driving slow so I can see the door closing. When hubby is away on a business trip, I have been known to pull out of the garage, push the button on the opener to close it, see it close... only to begin driving down the street and realize IS THE GARAGE DOOR CLOSED??? OMG So, I drive back to see if it is. Complete waste of time and I'm trapped in a cycle of doubt. But that is the compulsion of OCD.

 

When I was a kid and teen, I tried helping my mom. Cleaning the place will not cure the OCD. The pattern will continue. The worst thing that could happen is triggering a nervous breakdown and then police get involved with involuntary lockup in the psych ward. My question is are you up for the challenge to see these ladies getting professional help, meds, and being there to help? This is way bigger than you think.

 

http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/

 

BTW, most neighbors deal with it by reporting it to the city and code compliance officer shows up -- eventually leading to numerous violations, fines, evictions, and city paying someone to clean the home. But the person doesn't get help with the mental illness. Sad.

 

http://www.ocfoundation.org/

Edited August 30, 2009 by tex-mex

[asta]

I just got back from my MILs funeral.

 

By the time we left (BIL & SIL are now dealing with it), we had taken over 1000lbs to the dump, had a 2 day massive estate sale, brought 20 big black trash bags to Goodwill...

 

And had barely made a dent.

 

This house had been completely remodeled two months before hubby and BIL moved her in (3 months ago). And they had left a good half of what she'd had before they moved her there.

 

Mental illness, indeed. (I think it's in the DSM, even)

 

 

a

[creekland]

There is some recent research indicating that there might be some genetic links to hoarding.

 

I really think this is true. My grandmother, father, and sister all seem to have the gene. Fortunately, I seem to have no copy of it. I can't stand to go in their houses for long... and WISH there were something I could do to change them. I don't think there is though... I love them anyway. We all have our faults...

[dangermom]

Wait...I am hearing two different things on here. Someone who is sick, elderly or severely overweight may not be hoarding things...they may be unable to clean their own house. ....

There seems to be a spectrum. But it is not all that uncommon for someone to develop the problem as they get older. My in-laws raised 6 children in a small, slightly messy and chaotic, but normal home. Over the past 10 years they have slowly been turning into hoarders. Yes, they are older and not as spry, but they also refuse all help and have a hard time letting go of anything, even junk mail. Ill health and an inability to manage other areas of life often get intertwined with this problem, and it's a knotty tangle.

 

Something like flylady, which not meant to deal with mental issues like this, is not effective. It's a really difficult issue to solve all the way around.

[katemary63]

Hoarding is a form of OCD and is one of the most tenacious forms. It is one of the most difficult mental illnesses to treat and a complete cure is almost unheard of. My mother was a hoarder and cleaning out her house after she passed away was a monumental task. Because of this I am super obsessive about not letting clutter accumulate. I have a few children who are mild packrats and it is very difficult for me be even handed with them on this issue. I know that because of genetics that if I try to control their clutter too much it could have a rebound effect causing them to hoard later in life. It is a delicate balance to maintain everyone's mental health on this issue. I feel for anyone who has to deal with it.

 

This is me exactly. My mother had to clean out HER hoarding mother's house. She actually sorted through every single thing. I can't imagine how she did it. I was not there. Unfortunatly, she found a COUPLE of things of value, so now she is even more convinced that she can't just throw all HER OWN garbage away. "There may be something valuable in there!" I tell her that she KNOWS that there's nothing valuable because it's HER stuff. But that doesn't matter. It all has to be sorted through and she can't do it because of her health but she won't let anyone else do it either. We have all told her we are not going to sort it when she's dead. We are going to throw it away because we don't CARE about stuff. It makes no difference. One time, many years ago, she was attempting to sort through a box of junk and found some old baby outfits of mine. Since I had just had a baby, she gave them to me. Of course they had been in a box for 25 years in a basement or garage and were full of mold. I pointed this out to her and she suggested I have a professional try to clean them. I walked to the trash and threw them out. She about died.

 

We don't save stuff, we give away or throw away. My mom thinks I'm abusive because I limit my DD8 on how many stuffed animals she can keep. How could I make her give away that pretty Easter Bunny gramma gave her 6 years ago?? I show her the 12 other Easter Bunny's and ask her how many Easter bunny's a kid needs??? She doesn't see the logic. It's cruel, it's mean. Boy, I'm glad I live many states away!

[katemary63]

Wait...I am hearing two different things on here. Someone who is sick, elderly or severely overweight may not be hoarding things...they may be unable to clean their own house.

 

 

It's really quite easy to recognize the difference here. If someone refuses all help and won't let you throw away a bag of string without bursting into tears or arguing that she might need to tie up a bundle of newspapers someday.....then they are a hoarder. The fact that they are older and in ill health is a complication, but not the cause. It is quite horrible when a hoarder becomes unable to take care of themselves because all that crap is laid at the feet of the family to deal with and the hoarder goes into convulsions at the thought. I'm NOT looking forward to it!

[katemary63]

It is usually a genetic thing.

 

The genetics of this are fascinating and complicated. I wish we would learn more about them soon! My grandmother and mother are hoarders with OCD. ( Mother also has other OCD symtoms.) I have Tourrette's and mild ADD but no OCD. My son has ADD and panic disorder. So far, no Tourrette's or OCD in my other kids, but my youngest is not past the age on onset yet. ( And she looks the most like me, so I worry...) She is definately NOT ADD. There are other, milder issues with several members of my family that are undiagnosed. These are just the "for sure" ones.

 

OCD, Tourette's and ADD are what they call "comorbid." They are OFTEN found in the same individual or family. It is not known WHY they are related in some way, just that they ARE related in some way. Weird! I wish we knew what the deal was with these conditions and had better ways to treat or prevent them. Hopefully some day!

 

I will say that I'd take my Tourrette's anyday over my mother's OCD and hoarding. I can live a normal life (my tics are painful, but not too noticable and don't interfere with my daily life very much.) She can not.

[tex-mex]

The genetics of this are fascinating and complicated. I wish we would learn more about them soon! My grandmother and mother are hoarders with OCD. ( Mother also has other OCD symtoms.) I have Tourrette's and mild ADD but no OCD. My son has ADD and panic disorder. So far, no Tourrette's or OCD in my other kids, but my youngest is not past the age on onset yet. ( And she looks the most like me, so I worry...) She is definately NOT ADD. There are other, milder issues with several members of my family that are undiagnosed. These are just the "for sure" ones.

 

OCD, Tourette's and ADD are what they call "comorbid." They are OFTEN found in the same individual or family. It is not known WHY they are related in some way, just that they ARE related in some way. Weird! I wish we knew what the deal was with these conditions and had better ways to treat or prevent them. Hopefully some day!

 

I will say that I'd take my Tourrette's anyday over my mother's OCD and hoarding. I can live a normal life (my tics are painful, but not too noticable and don't interfere with my daily life very much.) She can not.

 

:grouphug: My friend, you have been thru a lot! We can both understand each other coming down the same road. Alas, I too cannot stand any type of clutter... earlier today, I was going thru a bag (we're in the process of moving into a new place -- 99.9% all moved in) and tossing out most of the contents. I hate it when you move and the clutter follows you -- I told hubby I am going thru every box in storage and tossing. He knows I will do it. I've gone so far in past moves (before it began) to rent a dumpster bin to sit in front of our house for 3-4 weeks. I would at night or when I had free time... toss out stuff that hasn't been touched or used in 1-2 years. LOL (Thanks to my Mom for my dislike of junk.)

 

Interestingly enough, my son and I both have a rare inherited liver disease called Urea Cycle Disorder. In participating in FDA/NIH Clinical Research studies over the years, specialists are finding direct links to co-morbidities most UCD patients have: anxiety, ADHD, autism, OCD, etc. Unfortunately for us, it is due to loss of white matter in the frontal portion of the brain that caused this. My OCD meds of Luvox works with Buphenyl (for the Urea Cycle Disorder -- $7000 a month for this rare orphan drug) to allievate my anxieties, OCD, rage cycles (common symptom of hyperammonemia for UCD), fatigue, & depression. I wish I had Buphenyl decades ago!! Wonder drug! [NOTE: Buphenyl is not for the OCD... but for the excess build up of ammonia in the body that is toxic to the brain.]

 

However for UCD, if not diagnosed or treated our disease ends in severe mental retardation, coma, or death. Which is why most UCDers die in infancy 10-15 years ago. Now they have teens and adults (like me) who are living beyond the norm. I do think one day they will find that most mental illnesses have some type of metabolic link (genetic) in people. But that could be decades from now.

Edited August 30, 2009 by tex-mex

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I do think one day they will find that most mental illnesses have some type of metabolic link (genetic) in people. But that could be decades from now.

:iagree:

[Ginevra]

My own mother is a hoarder. So was her mother. It is genetic. It is OCD. They can not help it without medication and behavior therapy. My mother will get niether. She lives in a trailer. It is beyond run down because she can't have anyone in to fix anything. Only a couple of her grandchildren are allowed in and they help her with some things. I live in another state and when I come to town to visit, we meet at restaurants. She won't let me in her home. My youngest daughter has never been there. I have talked to her about all this. She has seen the shows on TV that document other hoarders and their clean up and recovery. She literally HATES the man on the show who comes in and cleans up for people. She says that would be her worst nightmare. I have told her I would help her clean up by doing the leg work while she looked at each thing and decided where it should go. She broke down in tears and said no, that would be horrible for her. She won't go to the doctor.

 

So, my mom will need hip replacement soon. She is very overweight and has bad hips and can barely walk now. I don't even know how she gets her self into the shower. When she goes in for surgery, she will have to rehab in a center because of her home conditions and the fact that none of us can take care of her because of her size. When she's in there, we will move her stuff, sell most of it and get her into an appartment. At that point she will have no choice in the matter. I feel for her, but she doesn't have the right to put all that on us and if she can't take care of herself, then we are going to have to take care of her the best way we can. She will be devastated. She feels the NEED to sort through EVERY SINGLE THING one item at at a time and talk about it for 10 minutes before she can let it go. For example, she had a stack of daily newspapers TO THE CEILING, I kid you not! This was years ago. I said I was going to take them all to recycling and she had a fit, said there were recipes in the food section she wanted and some articles she wanted to clip and save. OMG. It is horrible. There is no reasoning with it. It's medication or hysteria.

 

 

Katemary63, :grouphug:. This post and your second one (#28?) resonate with me so thoroughly. I don't know if my mother is a "true" hoarder, because I don't know that she saves, say, food trash, but it's pretty close to that. My youngest child has never been to their house. (He is 4) He recently asked me where Grandaddy and Grammy live, because I think he just realized he's never been there. My middle child hasn't been since he was 18 months old. My mother has Parkinson's disease, and you are so right, health problems only make this issue worse. I have offered to help but my mother is EXACTLY as you describe yours. She cannot part with anything, everything has "sentimental value". She has to look at each thing with great concern and care. She also inherited a ton of stuff from my Grandmother. It was crammed onto their car port. It made me sick to look at it - the "good" stuff sitting out there on the port, rotting away with the worthless junk because there isn't time or will to go through it and separate what is worthy from what is not.

 

My mother also foisted onto me some junk she had "saved" for me from my childhood. Most of it is worthless and I threw it away. I didn't tell her though. But really, what do I care about the newspaper from the day I was born? That's why they have microfiche.

 

For a long time, she would inundate my children and myself with stuff from her habitual, constant yard sale/thrift shopping. I finally had to repeatedly and forcefully and not at all nicely insist that she stop. I. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. JUNK! I begged her to stop. She finally relented, so at least I don't have to be the constant recipient of her well-meant hoarding-on-my-behalf.

 

It is a terrible mental disorder and yes, it definitely affected me in an OCD way. Clutter and disorder completely alarms me.

[TravelingChris]

My brother and my oldest are both OCD and while my brother, I believe, is a hoarder, I also think my oldest may becoming one too. He gets his room. He doesn't keep everything so I am doing okay with it but I think he may well grow into it as he gets older. I don't think either of my two girls will have it and I don't have it either. I am just mildly adhd and disoroganized. But I don't mind purging junk and do that regularly. We are military and are always moving cso no hoarding can get too bad with anyone. My brother, on the other hand, doesn't move. He has lived in the same apartment for over 22 years and he continues to live there even though the neighborhood has gotten much worse and he works 60 miles away. He is not married so the only real reason I can see for him not moving is his hoarding. He can't have others over. The last time we were there was very briefly to pick him up 17 years ago. It was a giant mess with newspapers and magazines piled up that were "really important".

[Lovedtodeath]

Katemary63, :grouphug:. This post and your second one (#28?) resonate with me so thoroughly.

 

For a long time, she would inundate my children and myself with stuff from her habitual, constant yard sale/thrift shopping. I finally had to repeatedly and forcefully and not at all nicely insist that she stop. I. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. JUNK! I begged her to stop. She finally relented, so at least I don't have to be the constant recipient of her well-meant hoarding-on-my-behalf.

 

It is a terrible mental disorder and yes, it definitely affected me in an OCD way. Clutter and disorder completely alarms me.

Wow, this one really got me. My mom is a OC shopper. Always buying, always redecorating the house. She is not a hoarder, but it is very full and my dad is on crutches. I wish it didn't have something crammed into every tiny space.

[zaichiki]

I do think one day they will find that most mental illnesses have some type of metabolic link (genetic) in people. But that could be decades from now.

 

As far as I know, studies have already shown that there are some mental illnesses that are genetic.

[katemary63]

Katemary63, :grouphug:. This post and your second one (#28?) resonate with me so thoroughly.

 

Hello, sister! It does help to know we are not alone, doesn't it? Loves and prayers. :grouphug:

[katemary63]

My brother and my oldest are both OCD and while my brother, I believe, is a hoarder, I also think my oldest may becoming one too.

 

Well, this is my plan. I am going to write all my children a letter detailing the different genetic issues we have in our family. I will buy them a good book about each of the bigger ones such as OCD, depression, Tourettes, diabetes, etc., and advise them to learn as much as they can about these issues, memorize the early warning signs, face them head on if they recognize any of this stuff in themselves or their children, don't be ashamed, don't try to hide it and above all else - get early treatment. I want them to have good advice, encouragement, unconditional love and knowledge about these serious illnesses that could effect them and their children. Then, at least I'll know I've done everything I can to prepare them and the rest is up to them.

[katemary63]

:grouphug: My friend, you have been thru a lot! We can both understand each other coming down the same road.

Interestingly enough, my son and I both have a rare inherited liver disease

 

:grouphug: Prayers to you and yours!

[Dobela]

My next door neighbor is a hoarder. In addition to the endless papers and rotting food, she has about 20 cats and 1 dog in a tiny 2 bd/1bth home. You can't go in for the smell and she just doesn't get that the strong amonia smells are contributing to her health problems and those of her animals, especially the dog. She is even a nurse, but she refuses to see the connection. She can't clean for the mess and the animals control the house. It is just nasty and disgusting. She wants it clean (so she says) but because she is also gambling her paycheck away every night (or binge shopping), she doesn't have money for a maid or vet care. Her daughter came 2 years ago and attempted to clean it. She asked for my help and we had to wear masks and hazmat suits. Awful! We threw out mounds of trash and furniture that had been used as litter boxes. We couldn't get the urine smell out of the house at all. And a month after her daughter left, it was worse than it was before. She has been turned into the city, animal control, and others but so far she has been able to avoid them or avoid having them in her house. She did have a small electrical fire last year and we almost never found anyone to repair it. She had to have it repaired for the city to allow the power to be turned on at her home.

 

This woman has been in counseling, on medication, and more. It lead to a divorce, health problems, and more. Now we just help when she asks for help, which isn't often.

[tex-mex]

My next door neighbor is a hoarder... She wants it clean (so she says) but because she is also gambling her paycheck away every night (or binge shopping), she doesn't have money for a maid or vet care. Her daughter came 2 years ago and attempted to clean it. She asked for my help and we had to wear masks and hazmat suits. Awful!

 

Oh my. My mom in addition to what I shared previously did compulsively shop and suffered from a gambling addiction. She blew most of her paycheck on the slots. (Which may be why I don't like to play poker, go to Las Vegas or buy a lottery ticket...) She made a decent paycheck but we kids went without and were poor in a condemned home. Lasting scars for a child.

 

When my son shows interest in a contest or the silly McD's contest for $1 million -- I get a twinge in my stomach over past issues with Mom thinking she was going to get rich quick. Heavens, we've now turned this thread in a support group for sharing? LOL I feel better now.

Edited August 31, 2009 by tex-mex

[Impish]

All I can think of is, "What happens in a fire?" Some of these houses sound like death traps...not just for the residents, but also for any unsuspecting fire fighter that went in to help them.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:To all of you that have dealt with this in your lives:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Blossom'sGirl]

Katemary63, :grouphug:.

For a long time, she would inundate my children and myself with stuff from her habitual, constant yard sale/thrift shopping. I finally had to repeatedly and forcefully and not at all nicely insist that she stop. I. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. JUNK! I begged her to stop. She finally relented, so at least I don't have to be the constant recipient of her well-meant hoarding-on-my-behalf.

 

It is a terrible mental disorder and yes, it definitely affected me in an OCD way. Clutter and disorder completely alarms me.

 

I can so relate with this. My mom is a classic hoarder and I do get angry about it because it seems so selfish and yet she gives us so much. I take most anything she gives me and just plan to throw it out although some stuff has been very useful. Both my brother and I are neat people. Him more than me because I have 6 other beings inhabiting my house. Clutter really bugs me and I like nothing more than to wake up to a picked up downstairs. I have to try hard to let my boys be themselves in the house and let them decide what to keep and throw away.

 

I hope and pray I never have to go down that road. We have gotten her to slow down with yard sales, now she goes nuts at food pantries and will take so much more than any of us could ever use. She brings piles of rotting food (because she gets it 4 days before coming to our house) some of which I salvage but most of it goes to the animals.

 

I think there is also a control issue. She will worry about me throwing out my own things or selling them which in no way pertain to her.

 

The most frustrating aspect is that she owns multiple properties which have her stuff crammed to the ceilings and guess who will have to deal with that?

 

I wish she would see she needs help but she is accountable to no one and will not face it. I am sorry so many on this board have loved ones and neighbors who suffer from this sad disorder. You really cannot make it better for them, they will just continue.

[Cricket]

I'm beginning to think that the house fire we had a couple of years after we got married wasn't such a bad thing. I've always been a packrat. It was very hard to lose almost everything we owned but at the same time it was so liberating. Everything we owned could fit in one vehicle! Now we have so much stuff. It is still hard for me to throw things out but I remember feeling so free when we had so little. Now every so often I go through my closets, the kids' closets and toss what isn't usable and take the rest to Goodwill. Sometimes I start thinking that I could get money for this or that at a garage sale but the last garage sale we had got us about $15! It's not worth it. I just went through my closet a couple of days ago and was amazed to find two boxes of stuff I wasn't using. So it went away! It's like a load is lifted off of you.

 

After being in that house I came back home and started noticing my little piles around the house. I started throwing things out left and right! :001_smile: After all, their mess started one pile at a time.

[bairnmama]

Back when I was in college, I had an employer who was a hoarder. I went in her house only once and it was almost unbelievable the amount of stuff that was in that house. It was a decent size house with at least 3 bedrooms, but there was only one pathway less than 2 feet wide winding through the papers and junk piled literally to the ceiling, even in the kitchen. Most doors could only open wide enough for a slim person to slide in sideways. She was a retired university professor with a doctorate and also was the acting executive director for a non-profit that worked with mentally and physically impaired artists called VSA arts (that's how I met her). She interacted with people with bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, and other such illnesses every day and yet, she could not see that she had a problem.

 

I also fear that my daughter may end up being a hoarder. She used to burst into tears when I made her throw away paper towels in the public bathroom simply because she could use them in a craft or for one of her dolls somehow. She will try to save the pictures that come in the frames when they are bought, scraps of yarn, junk mail, paper airplanes she made over 6 months ago, coloring book pages she colored before entering preschool that are now wrinkled and torn, etc. I fight so many battles over things that are so obviously trash I don't have the energy to try to get her to let go of toys she's had since she was a toddler and hasn't played with in over 3 years. I've tried to go and clean out things while she was out with her dad or over at a friend's house, but she always notices things are missing and gets very upset. Upset to the point of wailing for almost half an hour and talking about missing said objects for the next 3 months. The only way she will let go of things is to give them to a friend that she dearly loves. She has gotten a bit better over the last year or so (paper towels are no longer an issue), but it is still a struggle.

[KidsHappen]

The worst part was, though, that they had to sort through every single bag and box of stuff...because mixed in with all the dirty kleenex and cans were pieces of Grandma's jewelry and other heirlooms!

 

Yes, we had this same problem when we had to go through my mom's house when she passed away. She had the family jewelry mixed in with absolute garbage that was covered with an inch of dust. So we had to sort through every single thing. Plus she didn't own the house and the city bought it to move it to a historical heritage site so this had to be done in a fairly short period of time. It was an overwhelming task epspecially right after she had passed away. We ended up moving a great deal of it to my brother's house because he lived there. This meant that he had to do the majority of the work but I think he has finally went through everything. Some things of sentimental value are still missing. Lord only knows what happened to them but I know that she did not get rid of them herself.

[tex-mex]

 

I also fear that my daughter may end up being a hoarder. She used to burst into tears when I made her throw away paper towels in the public bathroom simply because she could use them in a craft or for one of her dolls somehow. She will try to save the pictures that come in the frames when they are bought, scraps of yarn, junk mail, paper airplanes she made over 6 months ago, coloring book pages she colored before entering preschool that are now wrinkled and torn, etc.

 

One really good book is:

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-when-Child-Obsessive-Compulsive-Disorder/dp/0967734711

 

I do recommend getting her evaluated if possible by your pediatrician.

 

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/OCD.html

 

OCD can sometimes worsen if it's not treated in a consistent, logical, and supportive manner. So it's important to find a therapist who has training and experience in treating OCD. Just talking about the rituals and fears have not been shown to help OCD, and may actually make it worse by reinforcing the fears and prompting extra rituals. Family support and cooperation also go a long way toward helping a child cope with OCD.

[camibami]

Katemary, I knew that ADD and TS were related (comorbid), but not OCD. My mother has OCD, my Uncle (another side of the family) does too- and my DD has TS. I suspect sometimes ADD in my other DD, but don't know enough about it to really know, plus tons of excercise and oddly, *caffeine* really help her so it isn't an issue we need to medically pursue.

 

 

I suspect my MIL will soon be a problem hoarder- right now, the house *looks* fine. But you absolutely cannot, under any circumstances, open any closets, drawers, look under beds, under TABLES, etc because they are stuffed to the gills with..."stuff". It isn't hoarding (well it is, but still not a health hazard) yet, but it may be, soon!

[teachermom2834]

I am seeing that many people have this problem but no one has posted with any resolution. Is there any hope for people dealing with this to the point that that there is no where to sit or walk in a house?

 

No one has posted that it has improved for anyone they know.

[creekland]

Thanks everyone. I'm not the OP, but just knowing we're not alone having relatives with this is a relief in its own way. I knew there were others out there, but figured they were few and far between. Now I know there are many others who have experienced the paths and the smells... and who dread the day these relatives pass away, not just for losing the relative, but also for the cleaning it will entail. Sometimes I fantasize about a well-placed match when that day comes.