FYI: WA State Breastfeeding Law

[joannqn]

This is just an FYI for those who live in WA and may be breastfeeding a child currently or in the near future.

 

On July 26, 2009, Washington state enacted a new law giving breastfeeding women protected status in the Washington Law Against Discrimination (RCW 49.60). Specifically, this law provides that women may breastfeed in a time, place, or matter of their choosing while in a place of public accommodation. They do not have to go to a separate room, use the bathroom, sit in a corner, or use a cover. The owner, manager, or employees of a place of public accommodation cannot ask the mother to stop, cover up, move, or leave. The law is enforced by the Washington State human rights commission. This same agency is currently in the process of creating wallet cards for nursing moms to carry with them to help educate any place of public accommodation that doesn't seem to know the law (ie, asks them to cover/leave). The wallet cards are not yet ready but you can request to be sent them when they are ready in a couple of weeks.

 

I've been in contact with the human rights commission to get clarification on this law. Basically, it covers any place that a member of the general public would go. It does not cover private homes or private clubes (ie. golf clubs, the Elks, etc.) It may or may not cover churches. If the mom is at a bizarre, bake sale, preschool that is open to the public, or other event open to the general public the church is acting as a public accommodation. Sunday school/services may come under the private heading, though it hasn't come up yet so is still a "blurry" situation. It does cover places like gyms, parks, restaurants, libraries, stores, doctor's offices, etc.

 

If a place of public accommodation asks you to stop, move, cover, or leave, you can calmly educate them about the law. Calmly, because you don't want to end up getting in trouble for your behavior. If they still insist, you can file a complaint with the Washington State Human Rights Commission....and they want you to make that complaint. The human rights commission uses these complaints to educate the public and keep stats on the law.

 

Just getting the word out because it is a NEW law and I know that many breastfeed on these boards.

 

BTW, I was brought a cover yesterday while I was nursing Madelynn in the lobby of my endocrinologist's office. I was nursing VERY discretely; there was no skin showing because I was wearing a belly band that covered my midsection and my shirt was pulled down and touching her upper lip. They will be receiving a letter from me soon educating them about this new law. This is why I spent part of yesterday and today researching the actual meaning and intent of the law...the wording of the bill was not clear.

 

Pass the word along to any breastfeeding mothers you know in the state.

Edited August 19, 2009 by joannqn

[hornblower]

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

for WA moms & babies!!!

 

 

So - what happened at the endocrinologist's? They asked you to stop???? :svengo:

[joannqn]

So - what happened at the endocrinologist's? They asked you to stop???? :svengo:

 

When I arrived Madelynn was SCREAMING so, after signing in, I sat down and began nursing. Not five minutes later, a nurse came out and gave me a paper gown. I don't think he agreed with what he was doing because, as he handed it to me, he quietly said, "Someone in the lobby complained. I'm sorry." I took the gown and tossed it into the chair next to me and continued nursing without it. He turned heel and went back to the back so fast that I don't think he saw me toss it in the seat. They didn't bother me further so it doesn't meet the requirements for filing a complaint but that doesn't mean I can't educate them with a letter. In fact, the commission encouraged me to send them a letter and sent me the draft of a flyer they are creating to help me with wording.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

That is so terrific! What a great law, and long overdue!

 

I kind of feel bad for that male nurse, sounds like he did not want to bother you. Kuddos to you for keeping your composure and just tossing the paper gown in the seat next to you, you handled that very well. And to whoever complained, about your breastfeeding discreetly :smash:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wow - I am so surprised that someone complained. I always thought that WA was pretty breastfeeding friendly! I did know about the law but did not know that they were printing up wallet cards. I'm glad that they are.

[BillieBoy]

Hurray for WA! :hurray: Although does it strike anyone as weird that a law had to be put in place so we could use our "books" for their intended purpose without harassment???. :ohmy:

[Peek a Boo]

Although does it strike anyone as weird that a law had to be put in place so we could use our "books" for their intended purpose without harassment???. :ohmy:

 

not really.

There are plenty of BFing gals out there that would jump at the chance to make a scene. And I'm sure some still will.

[BillieBoy]

not really.

There are plenty of BFing gals out there that would jump at the chance to make a scene. And I'm sure some still will.

 

Don't get me wrong. I was never a public BFer, occasionally in my car or in a women's lounge when in public but I've never seen a BFer make a scene. Maybe, no, probably, I don't get out much. :001_huh:

[Oakblossoms]

I'm so confused by the paper gown. I really would have been curious as to what it's purpose was and if they could show me how to use it.

 

I'm in Washington and I have never been accosted for Breastfeeding.

[joannqn]

A friend of mine was suggesting that I might attracted more attention because I'm very large chested. Maybe that makes me more noticeable. I also don't make any attempt to hide; I just nurse. I am very careful to avoid skin exposure in public, though it doesn't seem to matter. I've run into issues on several occasions over the six years I've nursed.

[Sarah CB]

I am really happy to hear about the law, but I wonder if there isn't a line somewhere in terms of being discreet. I bfed my kids wherever we happened to be - at the zoo, the park, the dr's office, the swimming pool, etc., but I was also very careful not to show any skin. I'm glad that the right to feed a baby is being upheld, but I also think that some people go a little too far. I like seeing people out in public who are comfortable breastfeeding but a couple of weeks ago we were at our kids' classical music concert and there was a mom in our row who was nursing with her entire shirt pulled up above her breast. The baby was sitting on her lap and nursing but was also looking around so there was full frontal view of everything - I saw enough to know that she wasn't wearing a bra.

 

I'd prefer to see something in there about at least attempting to be discreet.

[HRAAB]

Good for Washington!!!

 

Janet

[Melissa in Australia]

Wow! a human right that Australia has that you don't . we can breast feed anywhere, any time. I have breastfeed all my children where ever I was at the time of their needing to be fed, including in the isles of the supermarket etc. I never really bothered about showing skin either. it is just such a natural thing to do.

[KidsHappen]

Woo-hoo! So glad to hear. I am not usually in favor of extra laws but I fully support this one. I was always discret but for the record I was a BFer who would have made a scene ( and after six kids, it wouldn't have been pretty! :001_smile:) should one have been neccessary. :glare:

[joannqn]

Good to know. Do you know where the cards will be available?

 

You can get the cards from the Washington State Human Rights Commission. They aren't available yet (in the process of being designed) but you can call them and ask to be put on the list to receive them as soon as they have them. The number is 360-753-6770. Use the employee directory to get Laura Lindstrand's extension. She's the one to call. NOTE-the 800 number on the website didn't work for me for some reasons.

 

I think there was a law that exempted it from indecent exposure. This law goes further, though, and specifically protects mothers from any harassment over breastfeeding in any public location. It does more than protect them from arrest for indecent exposure.

[Evergreen State Sue]

I am really happy to hear about the law, but I wonder if there isn't a line somewhere in terms of being discreet. . . I'm glad that the right to feed a baby is being upheld, but I also think that some people go a little too far.

 

I'd prefer to see something in there about at least attempting to be discreet.

 

:iagree:

[mommy2be]

:lol:

 

Haha, funny thought... Although I would never actually do it!

 

It would be so funny if someone came up to me while I was nursing and complained - and I squirted them with my milk! Hehe! Could you imagine? Wow...

[hornblower]

I was not always a discreet nurser.

 

I also accidentally squirted milk on a man's pantleg in the mall. Very active letdown & my smart dd let go for a few moments until the flow could slow down. I didn't get the cloth on my nipple in time & whooosh! The guy was walking by & his leg got hit. I don't think he noticed & I wasn't about to point it out :D I nursed everywhere & anywhere, on beaches, in pools, malls, libraries, airplanes, and symphony concerts.

 

In Vancouver there's nothing about discrete in our laws because women have the right to go topless anywhere men go topless. Few choose to, but that's not the point.

 

Trying to add issues of discretion muddies things up terribly. Will you have a panel to decide whether the women's clothing, position or draping technique was discreet enough? Judges? Submissions of photographs? Penalties for violations of the rules?

 

Oh wait - that already happens in certain countries where women are lashed and fined for wearing trousers because the law prohibits wearing "indecent clothing in public" without specifiying what that means. (see Sudan & Lubna Hussein). This is not a path I want to get anywhere near.

[*********]

Haha, funny thought... Although I would never actually do it!

 

It would be so funny if someone came up to me while I was nursing and complained - and I squirted them with my milk! Hehe! Could you imagine? Wow...

 

Um, mommy2be, I really don't think that's funny. In fact, I think that's a disgusting idea. Obviously you disagree, but I don't think I'm the ONLY one on the board who didn't find that the least funny, and actually thinks that's really offensive.

 

And I was a breastfeeding mama, and fed my dc whenever and wherever they needed to be fed. But I was always discreet, and never once even got a dirty glance, let alone had anyone complain. I guess I just don't understand the whole hoopla over it. I mean, of course you should be able to nurse when/where you need to. But I also think everyone else has the right to expect you to be discreet. Just the same as I don't appreciate having to see other women dress, shall we say, scantily; but I still would never walk up to them and suggest they put more clothes on. [shrug] I guess I just wish more people in the world were, in general, much more modest than they are.

 

**(Add here all the usual disclaimers: ymmv, just my two cents, etc. :D)

[hornblower]

Whoa, there's nothing disgusting about breastmilk.

 

No more than there is about cow milk in a little carton. To purposely spill either of the liquids on someone is rude. But there's nothing disgusting about it.

 

If you were at a hobby farm display and the farmer was demonstrating milking & squirted from the cow teat at the kids standing near by - which ALWAYS happens at the farms here, is that disgusting? Nope? Then what is it about OUR milk that makes it disgusting?

[*********]

Whoa, there's nothing disgusting about breastmilk.

 

No more than there is about cow milk in a little carton. To purposely spill either of the liquids on someone is rude. But there's nothing disgusting about it.

 

If you were at a hobby farm display and the farmer was demonstrating milking & squirted from the cow teat at the kids standing near by - which ALWAYS happens at the farms here, is that disgusting? Nope? Then what is it about OUR milk that makes it disgusting?

 

 

I think you misread my post.

 

I said that it was a disgusting IDEA. Not that breastmilk is disgusting. I think the idea of intentionally squirting someone with ANYTHING just because they are offended at something is an awful idea.

 

Sorry you misunderstood my post, but I stand by my original statement.

 

And your example is not the same. If the farmer intentionally squirted one of the children because the child was being rude, and the farmer did it out of some sort of retaliation/frustration/to teach the child a lesson, then yeah, I would be disgusted. At the farmer, not at the milk.

[mommy2be]

Yes, I said I would never actually do it. ;) But that I thought it was a funny thought (to me at least, but I am a very laid back person when it comes to most things...). Mostly because of how my own husband even reacts when he accidently gets squirted... he squirms and freaks out.

 

Anyways - don't confuse me saying that it was a funny thought as saying I would actually do it... Yes, it would be rude, and I would never do it. :chillpill::tongue_smilie:

 

Side note - I don't see how squirting someone with anything is "disgusting", rude maybe, but not disgusting. The ol' woman throws a drink in a mans face because she caught him doing something or being a jerk scene - disgusting? Nah... But like I said, I'm more laid back about most things. I don't cry over spilt milk (sure, pun intended). A little milk isn't gonna hurt someone...

 

Anyways, done babbling! Sorry if I offended you, but someone is bound to snicker at the mental picture of that!

[Joanne]

In my early years of parenting, I was a part of the attachment parenting and natural parenting community both in person and online. Very heavily involved in advocacy, groups, etc.

 

In all that time, in all those meetings, I have only seen *one* woman who breastfed in public in a way that seemed designed to create confrontation.

 

I also, however, don't believe that "we" need to be so careful that a flash of skin never happens during transitions, with baby hands on shirts, etc.

 

I guess I am always missing something in these conversations. I don't believe the on purpose non discreet nursers exist in abundance. I also don't "get" the "never any skin showing" insistence.

 

Breastfeeding should be easy, casual, and really, a non issue in either direction. We should not be focused on whether a mom meets some arbitrary "discreet" standard OR with breastfeeding in a way that garners attention.

[*********]

Yes, I said I would never actually do it. ;) But that I thought it was a funny thought (to me at least, but I am a very laid back person when it comes to most things...). Mostly because of how my own husband even reacts when he accidently gets squirted... he squirms and freaks out.

 

Anyways - don't confuse me saying that it was a funny thought as saying I would actually do it... Yes, it would be rude, and I would never do it. :chillpill::tongue_smilie:

 

Side note - I don't see how squirting someone with anything is "disgusting", rude maybe, but not disgusting. The ol' woman throws a drink in a mans face because she caught him doing something or being a jerk scene - disgusting? Nah... But like I said, I'm more laid back about most things. I don't cry over spilt milk (sure, pun intended). A little milk isn't gonna hurt someone...

 

Anyways, done babbling! Sorry if I offended you, but someone is bound to snicker at the mental picture of that!

 

 

It's all good, I'm not offended. :grouphug: Just posting my opionion, same as you. :001_smile:

[joannqn]

I think it is great that some moms can breastfeed in public without being hassled. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case, and is the reason legislation like this needs to be passed.

 

Here are a few stories that I'm aware of over the years:

 

Laurie Waldherr was barred from the pool in Fife in 2000 for breastfeeding her infant at the side of the toddler pool. They were worried about her breastmilk contaminating the pool water.

 

A week later, I was breastfeeding my oldest on the pool deck at a Tacoma pool. I was sitting against the wall about 3 feet from the water, talking with a friend. The pool's manager came out and told me that they had a policy that breastfeeding had to be done in the locker room/bathroom. My friend, who worked for the parks department, knew that no such policy existed and asked to see the written policy. Of course, he couldn't produce it so he asked if he could take our contact information and get back to us. To make sure, it was a breastfeeding issue and not an eating issue, she asked if he would have told her to bottle feed her foster child in the locker room too. He said that bottle feeding on the pool deck was acceptable.

 

Melissa Slovek was told not to breastfeed at a city pool in Seattle in 2001. Again, they sited breastmilk contaminating the water. When asked about the regulations, they changed their story to say that food wasn't allowed within 5 feet of the food. When asked to check the regulations with the health department, they found that the regulations don't apply to breastmilk.

 

Kim Rechner tried to nurse her child while waiting for her car at a tire shop. She was told to breastfeed in the bathroom.

 

One time I was at church when my oldest needed to nurse. I took her to the nursery (there was no mother's room). Although I had no skin showing, another woman got a blanket out of the cabinet and draped it over me without even asking me if I wanted it or was ok with it. Well, I wasn't ok with it because my daughter was, and still is, very heat sensitive. Even a light receiving blanket cover while nursing was enough to make her overheat and break out in a heat rash. What people who insist on covering up while nursing don't understand is that not every baby tolerates being covered up for one reason or another. I'm glad the law makes it not necessary to cover up.

[milovany]

I read through this thread (and live in Washington) and it makes me want to go out and nurse my 16 mo. old in as many public places as possible hoping that *someone* will ask me to cover up or move. In my almost 16 years of nursing in this state (seven babies), I've never had that happen. But I don't nurse in public all that often. Once *I* asked, in a bookstore, if it was okay if I nursed in the kids' area so I could be with my kids and the young worker directed me to a back room. But I think he thought I was *looking* for somewhere more private; I wasn't. I shouldn't have asked.

 

This reaction in me reminds me of the form the school district sent out to me recently, to notify them that we're homeschooling. They had spaces for us to write our kids' birth dates and grades (when all we need to tell them is their *ages*). I sent out emails to the homeschool lists around here and called the school district to ask them to revise their form (not that we have to use it in the first place).

 

I guess I like pressing my rights. Truth be told.

[KidsHappen]

In Vancouver there's nothing about discrete in our laws because women have the right to go topless anywhere men go topless. Few choose to, but that's not the point.

 

When we lived in Buffalo 18 years ago they passed the same law there. There was a group of women who marched down main street topless to celebrate.

 

I have breastfed for a total of 8 years over a 26 year period of time and never once has anyone said anything to me or even give me a sideways look but I would positively growl and anyone who did. My dd has been breastfeeding for 1 year now and she has never had a problem either. As a matter of a fact, I don't know that I personally know anyone who has had a problem, or ever saw anyone breastfeeding indiscretely so I always wonder where this is happening that it requires laws and causes so much controversy.

[Jill- OK]

I don't see how squirting someone with anything is "disgusting", rude maybe, but not disgusting. The ol' woman throws a drink in a mans face because she caught him doing something or being a jerk scene - disgusting?

 

...is that breast milk is bodily fluid.

 

As in...can transmit disease. (A better comparison, instead of throwing a drink in a man's face, would be spitting on him. Although...saliva doesn't even carry some of the diseases that breast milk does.)

 

I think that's some of the rationale behind trying to limit it at swimming pools. (Which I think is ridiculous...no one wants to know how many other bodily fluids are already in a public pool, lol.)

 

And, hey...I'm just pointing this out in a friendly way. I'm rabidly pro-breastfeeding, and extended breastfeeding...just think that some concerns merit listening to, even if they turn out to be unwarranted, the majority of the time.

 

(I've never been asked to stop breastfeeding, or cover up. The only remark I've ever gotten, that I can think of, offhand, was my surprised sister-in-law who exclaimed, "But...he can TALK!" when I nursed my toddler in front of her. :lol:)

[JennifersLost]

It always strikes me as strange that women get asked to cover up. My experience was the direct opposite!

 

I always tossed a baby blanket over me and my baby while we nursed. As far as I'm concerned, you better be the love of my life if you want even the tiniest glimpse of my feminine charms.

 

I got ridiculed, harassed, judged and snarked at all the time for "covering up" while I nursed in public. These were not people trying to be helpful about my comfort level - these were people who felt it was my duty to nurse publicly (with books hanging out) and their right to see it.

 

It still makes me steamed. Nursing my babies is PRIVATE - my body is not for public consumption, thank you very much.

 

PS - I do understand that some women find it uncomfortable to cover up while nursing. I wonder if it's a body type thing. I always tended to be cold, so it never phased me one bit. (Plus some of my baby blankets were very thin)

[JennifersLost]

Had to add; if I was breastfeeding a baby currently it would be a different matter. I do understand hot flashes now....

[Mrs Mungo]

Um, mommy2be, I really don't think that's funny. In fact, I think that's a disgusting idea. Obviously you disagree, but I don't think I'm the ONLY one on the board who didn't find that the least funny, and actually thinks that's really offensive.

 

And I was a breastfeeding mama, and fed my dc whenever and wherever they needed to be fed. But I was always discreet, and never once even got a dirty glance, let alone had anyone complain. I guess I just don't understand the whole hoopla over it. I mean, of course you should be able to nurse when/where you need to. But I also think everyone else has the right to expect you to be discreet. Just the same as I don't appreciate having to see other women dress, shall we say, scantily; but I still would never walk up to them and suggest they put more clothes on. [shrug] I guess I just wish more people in the world were, in general, much more modest than they are.

 

**(Add here all the usual disclaimers: ymmv, just my two cents, etc. :D)

 

In the Middle East I've seen women covered from head to toe-veil, gloves, the works and nursing through an opening in their top with no covering. It's our Western sensibilities that add this stigma, not a sense of modesty or decency.

 

I agree very much with Joanne when she said:

I guess I am always missing something in these conversations. I don't believe the on purpose non discreet nursers exist in abundance. I also don't "get" the "never any skin showing" insistence.

 

Breastfeeding should be easy, casual, and really, a non issue in either direction. We should not be focused on whether a mom meets some arbitrary "discreet" standard OR with breastfeeding in a way that garners attention.

[Word Nerd]

In case you missed it, we had a long discussion about this topic recently that I found interesting and rather encouraging for the most part.

[BillieBoy]

In the Middle East I've seen women covered from head to toe-veil, gloves, the works and nursing through an opening in their top with no covering. It's our Western sensibilities that add this stigma, not a sense of modesty or decency. ............................

 

While I don't disagree with the stigma of our Western sensibilities and I don't mean to contradict but I grew up in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia) and I never once saw a woman publicly breast feed her baby with any skin exposure. As a matter of fact I only saw a BF woman once at the back of a stall in the Souk through a crack in the curtains with a heavy robe over her. It was after she came out did I realize that she was BFing and her husband scolded her. Of course this was a while ago but most things have become more strict since I left. Depends on who's King. Just saying

[Mrs Mungo]

While I don't disagree with the stigma of our Western sensibilities and I don't mean to contradict but I grew up in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia) and I never once saw a woman publicly breast feed her baby with any skin exposure. As a matter of fact I only saw a BF woman once at the back of a stall in the Souk through a crack in the curtains with a heavy robe over her. It was after she came out did I realize that she was BFing and her husband scolded her. Of course this was a while ago but most things have become more strict since I left. Depends on who's King. Just saying

 

This wasn't in Saudi, it was in Egypt. Egypt, generally (big emphasis on the word, generally) speaking, is not as strict as Saudi. We saw it frequently in Egypt and among Muslim women when we lived in Europe.

[Peek a Boo]

In my early years of parenting, I was a part of the attachment parenting and natural parenting community both in person and online. Very heavily involved in advocacy, groups, etc.

 

In all that time, in all those meetings, I have only seen *one* woman who breastfed in public in a way that seemed designed to create confrontation.

 

ok, so you admit you haven't been in situations where people are prone to making this a confrontational issue. we've already had a couple people in this thread mention they'd press their luck, so I'm not seeing how your lack of experience dealing with this issue is relevant??

I also, however, don't believe that "we" need to be so careful that a flash of skin never happens during transitions, with baby hands on shirts, etc.

 

I guess I am always missing something in these conversations. .... I also don't "get" the "never any skin showing" insistence.

 

It's basic courtesy.

each person has their own sense of discretion. Some people cringe at male children over the age of 5 in the women's bathroom. Some cringe at flashes of skin. To each their own. It would seem courteous to take actions when we can to minimize offending others about issues of which we are aware.

I don't believe the on purpose non discreet nursers exist in abundance.

 

the people who break the law are usually in the minority, but we still have laws. It doesn't take "an abundance" of a particular type to screw it up or the rest of us.

[hornblower]

It's basic courtesy.

each person has their own sense of discretion. Some people cringe at male children over the age of 5 in the women's bathroom. Some cringe at flashes of skin. To each their own. It would seem courteous to take actions when we can to minimize offending others about issues of which we are aware.

 

So those of us who cringe at overt religious references in the public sphere can expect everyone to keep those private now??

In that case I just want to make everyone aware that this is an issue & if you could minimize the offense to me I'd really appreciate it. Ta!

[BillieBoy]

So those of us who cringe at overt religious references in the public sphere can expect everyone to keep those private now??

In that case I just want to make everyone aware that this is an issue & if you could minimize the offense to me I'd really appreciate it. Ta!

 

Hmmmm, good point!

[Peek a Boo]

So those of us who cringe at overt religious references in the public sphere can expect everyone to keep those private now??

In that case I just want to make everyone aware that this is an issue & if you could minimize the offense to me I'd really appreciate it. Ta!

 

There are certainly many who are working towards that end.

But as long as we have "freedom of speech" and "freedom OF religion" I don't see it happening.

 

Not to mention, you'll notice that i said "when we can" --I simply can. not. refrain from publicly proclaiming my faith if that is how God is leading me. Can't do it.

 

We do NOT have a freedom to be naked. yet ;)

 

But what i was REALLY addressing was Joanne's "I don't get it" comments.