s/o parenting book .... Growing Kids God's Way

[5knights3maidens]

I just checked the board and saw the post about "parenting books"...I haven't read the posts but has anyone heard of 'Growing Kids God's Way'? Have you used this? What did you think? Thanks!

[Sandy in Indy]

This is an Ezzo program and is the religious form of BabyWise. I know some think these are wonderful, but personally, I think they're pretty dangerous particularly if you follow it too rigidly in a quest to be spiritual. JMHO.

[mommaduck]

Yes, we were exposed to the Ezzo's program and took the classes. I toss my book and will never look back. It's all about parental control...micro controlling your children. Much of what we saw was abusive and anything except Scriptural.

 

Ezzo, Pearls, Gothard, and Hyles are all at the the bottom of the pile and labeled WORST parenting resources as far as I'm concerned.

[Colleen in NS]

I just checked the board and saw the post about "parenting books"...I haven't read the posts but has anyone heard of 'Growing Kids God's Way'? Have you used this? What did you think? Thanks!

 

Dh and I took this class a few years ago with some good friends. We did get some good principles out of it. Mostly what I remember is gaining the mindset that parenting is not a set of techniques, it's teaching your kids to regard other people instead of being self-focused all the time. It's the principles I keep in mind, not so much the specific techniques. You could probably read the Ezzo Childwise, Pre-teen, and Teen books and get the same principles.

 

Sure, there is a lot of controversy over them, but there are some good things that can be gained from them, too. You just have to *think* your way through them, instead of accepting everything for your family. Just like everything else in life.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[phathui5]

I really think that Ezzo and his ilk have expectations of children that are completely inappropriate in terms of child development.

 

Here's one site about the "why not to use Ezzo" opinion:

http://www.ezzo.info/

[SilverMoon]

I think it would be more appropriately titled Growing Kids Gary's Way, and recommend you do some reading at http://www.ezzo.info. :)

[skaterbabs]

In my opinion, the Ezzors are irresponsible at the very least, and dangerous at the worst. Their "parenting" advice has no basis in the Bible or child development, physiology or psychology and has lead to the deaths of infants when the parents took the Ezzo's advice as it was written.

[Ellie]

Terrible. Awful.

 

Here are some links:

 

Rebecca Prewitt's Family Issues

Fresno Family Dangers of Ezzo

Breastfeeding.com...links on Ezzo

AAP Condemns Ezzos' "Baby Wise" (Baby Wise is just Growing Families International from a secular POV)

Ezzo information PDF brochure

[Heather in OK]

:thumbdown:

 

I toss my book and will never look back. It's all about parental control...micro controlling your children. Much of what we saw was abusive and anything except Scriptural.

That.

 

Horrible stuff.

[HollyDay]

Terrible

Awful

Horrible

 

In fact, when we move to a new area and start looking for a church, if they teach this, we won't visit.

 

Check out Dr Sears.

[creekmom]

Wow! I guess I'm in the minority here. I think what most people are upset about is their philosophy on baby schedules (Babywise). They believe babies should not be fed on demand (they should be on a 3 hour schedule), that babies should sleep in a crib, etc. My babies did not do well on a 3 hour schedule until they were about 2-3 months old. At that point, they fell right into the pattern of feed, wake time, then nap, and they were ALL very happy babies who slept through the night early and woke up happy! :001_smile: So, I'm very thankful for that book.

 

Growing Kids Gods Way is their whole philosophy on parenting. It is a series of tapes with a book based on Biblical teachings of child rearing. They do believe in spanking for first time obedience issues, so if you are against spanking, it may not be for you. I got a lot more out of Carla Link's Mom's Notes which is based on their philosophy. You can check it out at www.momsnotes.com. She is humorous to listen to, and has a lot of wisdom about rearing kids. I have followed a lot of her suggestions (structuring your child's day, first time obedience, parenting inside the funnel, etc.), and my husband and I are very proud of the way our children behave - at home and in public. Our kids are happy, secure, well-mannered and respectful. They are constantly complimented when we go out in public for their manners and behavior. (Once on vacation, a couple we didn't know paid for our entire meal at Cracker Barrel because they were so impressed with our four kids!) I'm not trying to brag about my kids, I just feel that a lot of folks have misjudged their parenting program to be something it is not. Several of my friends have used Mom's Notes also, and they ALL have great things to say about it.

[joannqn]

I'm strongly in the against Ezzo crowd.

 

His infant feeding recommendations have led to failure to thrive. Other advise he gives is punitive (ie. smacking a 9 month old's hands for grab his food). I read Babywise and found it heartbreaking and disturbing.

 

The AAP warned against it.

 

His publisher cut ties with him.

 

He's ignored church discipline from several churches and been excommunicated from two...denominations that you don't hear using excommunication often.

 

At one point, he changed the name of the program. I think it was to be able to continue selling his program to people who were aware of the negative feelings surrounding his "God's Way" program but not aware of the name change.

[BakersDozen]

I'm in the minority, too, because we've read/used the book and have taken/taught the class. The funnel concept is great and the session for fathers is excellent. I personally feel that expectations on children in today's society are very low and the Ezzo's teachings are more in line with what I believe children are capable of; they raise the bar rather than lower it, IMO. If you are searching for parenting advice/tips/techniques it is worth looking into because even if you don't agree with all (or even most) if it, there are usually a few nuggets of good advice in any book.

[5knights3maidens]

Thanks to all of you for your input. We have started attending another church and I saw this listed in their classes. I'm going to read the other sites given to me on here. Thanks again. :)

[klmama]

I think for a very laid-back person who is looking for ideas on how to be more structured and set better expectations for her children, it might be helpful to some extent. For a more rigid person, I don't think it is a wise move because of the danger of putting the behavioral rules ahead of the loving relationship with the children. I've known people in both camps, and I've seen both good and bad come of it, depending on the personality of the parent.

[Ellie]

Many documented cases of failure-to-thrive Ezzo babies makes it more than just being "upset."

 

And if their baby-rearing advice is poor, it isn't a stretch to imagine that their child-rearing advice is not so great, either.

[Heather in OK]

I think what most people are upset about is their philosophy on baby schedules (Babywise).

Not me. I'm against anything that has Ezzo's name or influence attached to it.

 

They are constantly complimented when we go out in public for their manners and behavior.

That says absolutely nothing about Ezzo's teachings. We don't use Ezzo and get plenty of compliments.

 

I've read that his own daughters do not have a close relationship with either parent. So is this really someone who we want to take parenting advice from????

 

I think for a very laid-back person who is looking for ideas on how to be more structured and set better expectations for her children, it might be helpful to some extent. For a more rigid person, I don't think it is a wise move because of the danger of putting the behavioral rules ahead of the loving relationship with the children. I've known people in both camps, and I've seen both good and bad come of it, depending on the personality of the parent.

What I find with people I come across who ask me about it is this. Especially for first time parents, this method gives a sense of control in a new world that seems out of control. There are so many changes and unknowns as first time parents so having something structured and teachings of how to control your children gives them a sense of being able to have some normal back in their lives.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Heather in OK

[mommaduck]

It's not just about their baby feeding schedule. That is what they like to claim the only issue is.

[Rosy]

I have mixed feelings about Ezzo. I benefitted from Babywise when my kids were little, I am not an AP parent and didn't have any support for taking a more structured approach, so the book helped me figure out what I was doing. I will say, I did a VERY relaxed version of Babywise though.

 

I'm familiar with many of the concepts behind GKGW/Childwise, and some of it is good. I do think it focuses too much on outward behavior and not training the heart/mind. Many of the Ezzo-following families I know have raised kids that respond well to certain cues from their parents, but are otherwise rude and disrespectful and don't respond to authority that doesn't look like the Ezzo model (**PLEASE NOTE--THIS IS ONLY THE FAMILIES I PERSONALLY KNOW USING THE METHOD. I'm sure there are many Ezzo-following parents on this board with delightful children.)

 

I also have mixed feelings about the concept of "first-time obedience"--I believe in obedience but unconditional, immediate obedience with no room for flexibility doesn't work for me.

[SonshineLearner]

I actually like the Pearls and I think that many of their stories in the magazine resemble a Charlotte Mason type "work with mama as she's sweeping" type thing. The whole, spend time with the child as you "live" together. Spend lots of time outside. There are two stories in the book that I don't agree with. I believe you could use many of the principles and never spank. I like the fact that their family seems very close. On the other hand, none of the Ezzo stuff makes me have warm fuzzies.

Course, i can read any book and pick out the good:-) I like Waldorf for their rhythm, Montessori, Pearls, Love and Logic, I believe that for a Christian Family, the Teaching the Trivium by the Bludorn's is the greatest "How to Organize your Family" book....I just love it!!

 

Carrie:-)

[creekmom]

I've read over a lot of the posts, and there seems to be a very negative view of the Ezzos from posters who have never even read the book Growing Kids God's Way (remember Babywise and Growing Kids are 2 different books- one focuses on babies, the other is a parenting philosophy). So much of what you have talked about is either what you've heard or read "about" the Ezzos. You have a right to your opinion, but please at least read the book first.

 

I have one friend who was totally against the Ezzos for the same reasons some of you have written, but after she read the book, she loved it! It is about training the heart! It is not about "controlling" your kids like robots. First time obedience is not about the child doing whatever you ask him to; it is simply your child coming when you call him. There is a big focus on learning your child's love language and building a strong family identity. Carla Link (who homeschooled 3 kids), speaks about some of the issues that come up with schooling at home and how to deal with them. Different personality types are discussed as well. Spanking is only one form of correction - there are also logical and natural consequences, reflective time-outs, repentance, forgiveness and restoration. Do I agree with absolutely everything? Of course not. But there is a lot of wisdom to be gained from their book. I'm not trying to sell anybody on their stuff, but if you are even the slightest bit interested, please focus on the posts from people who have actually read the book.

[Sandy in Indy]

I've read over a lot of the posts, and there seems to be a very negative view of the Ezzos from posters who have never even read the book Growing Kids God's Way (remember Babywise and Growing Kids are 2 different books- one focuses on babies, the other is a parenting philosophy). So much of what you have talked about is either what you've heard or read "about" the Ezzos. You have a right to your opinion, but please at least read the book first.

 

I've read them and my opinion stands.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I've seen Preparation for Parenthood and Growing Kids God's Way. Gary's theology makes me want to vomit. We often say that the proof is in the pudding. The Ezzo's kids do not speak to their parents and that, to me, is telling.

 

We are more on the AP side of things (I call it AP with a backbone since AP often gets a bad rap.) I get compliments all the time about how polite and well-behaved my kids are and what a joy they are to be around.

[Peek a Boo]

Sure, there is a lot of controversy over them, but there are some good things that can be gained from them, too. You just have to *think* your way through them, instead of accepting everything for your family. Just like everything else in life.

 

yeah.

 

There was controversy over Christ too. ;)

 

Not that the Ezzos are in ANY WAY Christ, but that being ostracized isn't always a good indicator of whether something is wrong or not.

[mommaduck]

I've read them, took the classes, went to a church for years that was big on them, and tried to "follow". I've fully been there, done that, and if I could, I'd go back in time and give myself a good swift kick in the rear for it. I've read ALL the books, btw. ALL of the GKGW series (not the watered down Ezzo-Wise books).

 

My opinion also stands. So much so, that the other people that were involved in Ezzo's theory are no longer allowed near our family.

[SilverMoon]

I've read over a lot of the posts, and there seems to be a very negative view of the Ezzos from posters who have never even read the book Growing Kids God's Way (remember Babywise and Growing Kids are 2 different books- one focuses on babies, the other is a parenting philosophy). So much of what you have talked about is either what you've heard or read "about" the Ezzos. You have a right to your opinion, but please at least read the book first.

 

I've read the book, cover to cover, and even took the class. :tongue_smilie:My very negative view of the Ezzos stands firm.

[KrissiK]

I have not read the book, so I cannot comment on it. However, they do tend to polarize people. They either love the system, or they hate it. Similar to Dobson or Rosemond. My personal opinion on any philosophy on child-raising is... if you take anything to the extreme, if you follow the letter of the law in disregard to your child's needs and situation you will have problems.

[Danestress]

If you are searching for parenting advice/tips/techniques it is worth looking into because even if you don't agree with all (or even most) if it, there are usually a few nuggets of good advice in any book.

 

If it's "God's Way" to raise children, then *no.* She is not free to disagree with it. How can any of us agree to disagree about doing things "God's Way?" And for me, that is the heart of the problem. There is a shocking and scary arrogance in calling your ideas "God's."

 

Apart from just quoting scripture without additional comment, analysis or anecdote, I think calling a book about anything (marriage, homeschooling, driving a car, running a business) "God's Way" is a sign of a dangerous hubris. Ick

[joannqn]

That says absolutely nothing about Ezzo's teachings. We don't use Ezzo and get plenty of compliments.

 

Same here...constantly...even when I think my kids are acting poorly.

 

I've read over a lot of the posts, and there seems to be a very negative view of the Ezzos from posters who have never even read the book Growing Kids God's Way (remember Babywise and Growing Kids are 2 different books- one focuses on babies, the other is a parenting philosophy). So much of what you have talked about is either what you've heard or read "about" the Ezzos. You have a right to your opinion, but please at least read the book first.

 

The author has some series moral and ethical failings. True, we all sin. But this supposed leader has refused church discipline multiple times; that's not the kind of leader that I think should be followed regardless of what he's teaching. Perhaps he should take some of his own advise and practice being obedient to those in authority over him. After all, church discipline is "God's way".

[phathui5]

I've read that his own daughters do not have a close relationship with either parent. So is this really someone who we want to take parenting advice from????

 

Yup. His children aren't close to him and he's been kicked out of at least one church for not fixing the messed up theology in his book.

[katemary63]

Yes, we were exposed to the Ezzo's program and took the classes. I toss my book and will never look back. It's all about parental control...micro controlling your children. Much of what we saw was abusive and anything except Scriptural.

 

Ezzo, Pearls, Gothard, and Hyles are all at the the bottom of the pile and labeled WORST parenting resources as far as I'm concerned.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Plucky]

I avoided GKGW because I think the author has serious character flaws, ego, pride, & truth issues.

[katemary63]

I've seen Preparation for Parenthood and Growing Kids God's Way. Gary's theology makes me want to vomit. We often say that the proof is in the pudding. The Ezzo's kids do not speak to their parents and that, to me, is telling. .

 

Do you have a source for this information? ( kid's not speaking to their parents) I would really love to know if this is documentable.

 

We are more on the AP side of things (I call it AP with a backbone since AP often gets a bad rap.) I get compliments all the time about how polite and well-behaved my kids are and what a joy they are to be around.

 

I too do/ did AP with a backbone. I have 4 kids who adore me! AND are well behaved, productive member's of society ( the older 3 anyway). I had our youth group pastor tell me that of all the kids in our youth group, you can tell my DD17 was "raised right!" He said her maturity level and behavior was miles above EVERYONE else.

 

Unfortunately, this wonderful youth pastor and his wife are raising their infant son the Babywise way. :confused: They let him cry and cry to the point that I consider it abuse. I have heard several parents at my church talk about what they have learned in these books and I am disgusted. One story was that a baby was put for his nap at nap time but cried. He cried for 1 hour and 45 minutes and finally fell asleep. Then this mother woke her son up 15 minutes later because "nap time" was over according to the schedule. OMG!!! This is a quote, "Every fiber in my being was telling me to go pick him up. But I didn't because I KNEW it was the best thing for him to let him cry." Her source for this "knowledge" is the Ezzo book. Sickening.

 

BTW: Yes, I DID read the book 20 some years ago, put it down and thought to myself, "That's rediculous." This was long before I had heard of ANY controversy. I just KNEW babywise was NOT for me the first time I read it.

Edited July 13, 2009 by katemary63

[kmacnchs]

I was raised with a perfectionist father and was berated growing up. This is what I learned and this is what God is changing in me everyday.

 

I was introduced to GKGW by a lady at church and I think it has saved my kids from abuse. I am just being honest...my natural inclination is to abuse (verbally and physically) because that is what I grew up with and never knew anything else.

 

Like I said, God is changing my heart but the examples GKGW gives for discerning childish/foolish behavior helped me be more soft-hearted and less rigid with my children. Their suggestions in Prep for Parenting book helped me be less rigid with my babies as well. It taught NOT to be all about the clock, which is my nature.

 

I get comments CONSTANTLY about how well-behaved my children are. We are still working on the respecting adults part (but they are toddlers afterall) but I will continue to glean much wisdom from GKGW and am terribly thankful I was introduced to the books.

 

I think it is ungodly to be a child-centered family instead of being a God-centered family. GKGW is big on teaching children that they are not the center of the universe so they will not be "wise in their own eyes" which is foolishness in God's eyes.

 

Just my two cents :D

[kmacnchs]

I have heard several parents at my church talk about what they have learned in these books and I am disgusted. One story was that a baby was put for his nap at nap time but cried. He cried for 1 hour and 45 minutes and finally fell asleep. Then this mother woke her son up 15 minutes later because "nap time" was over according to the schedule. OMG!!! This is a quote, "Every fiber in my being was telling me to go pick him up. But I didn't because I KNEW it was the best thing for him to let him cry." Her source for this "knowledge" is the Ezzo book. Sickening.

 

This is exactly how these books get a bad wrap...there is NO place in their books where it says to let your child cry that long! I says to let your child cry a little bit when you put them down because some children need to cry a little to get some energy out before they settle down for a nap. The only time it talks about waking a baby up is when they are newborns and they should not go very long without eating or when they are toddlers and taking afternoon naps...to wake them up so they will be ready to go to bed at night at a decent time. This is very frustrating and makes me wonder what book they read and if they ever went to a GKGW class!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Do you have a source for this information? ( kid's not speaking to their parents) I would really love to know if this is documentable.

 

Try here.

Timeline of Ezzo Controversy

 

November 2002 -- Jennifer and Paul Luedke (one of the Ezzos' daughters and her husband) cut off contact with her parents after much prayer, consideration and counsel, based on their personal observation of the same types of issues raised by the LHEF elders. Their hope is that the relationships will be restored following the Ezzos' repentence. (Editor's note: This has not happened; if it does, it will be noted on this timeline.)

Source: emails on file from Paul Luedke, dated January 25, 2006 and July 31, 2008

 

June 2005--Grace Community Church staff pastor Adam Bailie, writing informally in a message board, reaffirmed GCC's position that Ezzo was under church discipline when he left GCC, confirmed that Ezzo's children (one of whom attends GCC) have chosen to limit their interaction with him, and referred readers to 2 official church statements which were attached to the posting. (One about issues with the material itself, and one about issues of character .)

Source: Posting on file.

 

 

August 2008--In the wake of a rumor to the contrary, I verified that Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo remain estranged from their daughters.

Source: Email from Paul Luedke on file

 

Edited July 13, 2009 by Oak Knoll Mom
added quote

[Plucky]

Try here.

Timeline of Ezzo Controversy

 

Are they estranged from all their children?

[katemary63]

This is exactly how these books get a bad wrap...there is NO place in their books where it says to let your child cry that long! I says to let your child cry a little bit when you put them down because some children need to cry a little to get some energy out before they settle down for a nap. The only time it talks about waking a baby up is when they are newborns and they should not go very long without eating or when they are toddlers and taking afternoon naps...to wake them up so they will be ready to go to bed at night at a decent time. This is very frustrating and makes me wonder what book they read and if they ever went to a GKGW class!

 

This is what I can tell you. Many, many mothers at my church use Babywise. They all have the book, they talk about it all the time and THIS is what they do....?? What more can I say. In my opinion, these babies are being abused. I have a very hard time holding my tongue, but I do except to say every so often, "I did AP and my kids turned out just great!" or "I never used a schedule, nursed on demand, and it worked for me."

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Are they estranged from all their children?

 

I don't know how many kids the Ezzo's have, but the second and third quotes say "children" and "daughters."

ETA: That sounds snippy. I really don't mean it to be. I just don't know the answer. :-)

 

I don't keep up with this much anymore, though, since Babywise has really fallen out of favor in my area.

[Jami]

I don't know how many kids the Ezzo's have, but since the second and third quotes say "children" and "daughters" it's safe to assume at least two of them are estranged.

 

I don't keep up with this much anymore, though, since Babywise has really fallen out of favor in my area.

 

They just have the 2 daughters.

 

2 daughters who were scheduled as babies and seemed to do fine with it. So the rest of the world gets "God's plan" from their expertise. :glare:

[mommaduck]

I never followed the BW schedule with my own children (I was forced to as a nanny with someone else's, to the point that I had to write down times and order of each item of the day). The only people I've seen use this program seriously were PERFECTIONISTS. I got in trouble for NOT letting my child CIO and for BFing on demand. Sorry, but I was going to meet my child's needs.

 

 

And apparently it needs a REPEAT: SEVERAL OF US HAVE TAKEN THE CLASSES, READ THE BOOKS, AND STILL ADVISE HEAVILY AGAINST THEM!

 

Oh, and as for the "child centered vs God-centered"...that is a fallacy put out by the Ezzo's. In fact, their books teach PARENT-CENTERED homes. A truly God-centered home places GOD (not Ezzo's theory) at the center of the home and everyone's needs are considered and met.

[Plucky]

I don't know how many kids the Ezzo's have, but the second and third quotes say "children" and "daughters."

ETA: That sounds snippy. I really don't mean it to be. I just don't know the answer. :-)

 

I don't keep up with this much anymore, though, since Babywise has really fallen out of favor in my area.

 

I didn't think you were snippy, but thanks for the clarification.

[Plucky]

They just have the 2 daughters.

 

2 daughters who were scheduled as babies and seemed to do fine with it. So the rest of the world gets "God's plan" from their expertise. :glare:

 

That is so sad.

[JenniferB]

Dh and I took this class a few years ago with some good friends. We did get some good principles out of it. Mostly what I remember is gaining the mindset that parenting is not a set of techniques, it's teaching your kids to regard other people instead of being self-focused all the time. It's the principles I keep in mind, not so much the specific techniques. You could probably read the Ezzo Childwise, Pre-teen, and Teen books and get the same principles.

 

Sure, there is a lot of controversy over them, but there are some good things that can be gained from them, too. You just have to *think* your way through them, instead of accepting everything for your family. Just like everything else in life.

 

Wow! This is exactly what my dh and I got out of it. I would never consider this parenting philosophy abusive, unless the one using it was an abuser or took things out of context or something like that. The main point of what we got out of this was that parents & children alike need to think of others before themselves. For instance, you don't pick someone else's flowers, because they belong to someone else. You let the elderly and frail go before you in a line waiting for food at a church banquet, etc. You teach the children to respect their elders, because they deserve respect. You open the door for them, or help them if they are weak. You don't run in church because you could knock someone down. When mommy or daddy say come, you come, because you respect and obey your parents. Mom and Dad need to spend time with each other alone without the children because when a husband and wife are married that is the beginning of the family unit, and it needs to be nurtured and cared for. You don't focus your whole world around your children, but you make sure they are welcome members of the family. Focusing EVERYTHING on the children creates a selfish child and an imbalanced home structure.

 

All these are Biblical principles. I don't see how they can possibly seem abusive to teach your children to think of others first. Of course, anything can be abused and taken out of context, and I am guessing that's what has happened in the cases where this method appears to be harsh - it certainly wasn't meant to be harsh, from what I remember taking the class. It got my dh and I off on the right foot in parenting and in our marriage relationship.

[Ellie]

I actually like the Pearls and I think that many of their stories in the magazine resemble a Charlotte Mason type "work with mama as she's sweeping" type thing. The whole, spend time with the child as you "live" together. Spend lots of time outside. There are two stories in the book that I don't agree with. I believe you could use many of the principles and never spank. I like the fact that their family seems very close. On the other hand, none of the Ezzo stuff makes me have warm fuzzies.

 

:iagree:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I don't see how they can possibly seem abusive to teach your children to think of others first.

 

Infants CAN'T 'learn how to think of others first'. I think that is the whole point of the controversy. Infants have basic needs and they should be honoured. These authors really don't have the wisdom that one would expect from something called "God's way".

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks to all of you for your input. We have started attending another church and I saw this listed in their classes. I'm going to read the other sites given to me on here. Thanks again. :)

 

See if you can get hold of the manual that goes with the class and have a look through that, and then see what you think. Before you talk to anybody about it. :)

 

I'm thinking that GKGW is a hot topic in some parts of N. America, while in others it's just not a big deal. Here in my corner of Canada, I think there are classes in another church in the area, and I know a few Moms who have loosely used Babywise methods, but it's just not the church culture thing it seems to be for some of the other posters. If it was a church culture thing here, it would drive me bonkers. Just give me the book and let me figure it out for myself, I say! :D And even *that* last thought, I've learned through my adventures in WTM book and boardland - which could *also* be harshly applied or loosely applied. Like someone else said, you can take *anything* to an extreme.

 

For instance, you don't pick someone else's flowers, because they belong to someone else. You let the elderly and frail go before you in a line waiting for food at a church banquet, etc. You teach the children to respect their elders, because they deserve respect. You open the door for them, or help them if they are weak. You don't run in church (addition mine: or grocery store, or movie theatre, or swimming pool deck, etc.) because you could knock someone down. When mommy or daddy say come, you come, because you respect and obey your parents. Mom and Dad need to spend time with each other alone without the children because when a husband and wife are married that is the beginning of the family unit, and it needs to be nurtured and cared for.

 

Yes, these are the principles I remember being taught for parenting beyond infancy. GKGW just happens to be the first place I encountered these ideas spelled out so practically (kinda like how the WTM spelled out how to practically teach my kids to write, etc.), so I found it helpful to me. I don't do every little technique recommended in it, I just try to keep the moral principles in mind as I guide my kids through a day, and figure out my own ways of dealing with things.

[JenniferB]

Infants CAN'T 'learn how to think of others first'. I think that is the whole point of the controversy. Infants have basic needs and they should be honoured. These authors really don't have the wisdom that one would expect from something called "God's way".

 

Actually, "Growing Kids God's Way" does not concern infants. Teaching children who are old enough to learn to start thinking of others before themselves is not abusive. "Baby Wise" does address infants, and "Baby Wise" teaches the mother how to feed her baby on a schedule. This can be abused, or it can be used as a tool to know when a baby needs to be fed. It's not abusive to feed your baby on a schedule, unless your schedule is too long and drawn out between feedings, which the book does not tell you to do. So, it's all in how you take the information and use it. They in no way intend for parents to abuse their children, as far as I know from reading their materials and taking the class. I don't know them personally, however. So, I can't speak to that. And, everyone I know who has taken the class uses the information and materials wisely and lovingly.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't do every little technique recommended in it, I just try to keep the moral principles in mind as I guide my kids through a day, and figure out my own ways of dealing with things.

 

Hi Colleen,

This is such a sensible way to approach this book. However, because the Ezzo's suggest through their title and in their text that this is "God's way", it is really hard for a lot of people to approach this information so sensibly. It starts to have the ring of 'thus spake the Lord,' and that really puts a lot of pressure on doing everything exactly correctly.

 

I have one of the Babywise books, and I agree that there was lot of stuff to like about it. But, it was a bad book for me, because it brought out my inner control freak so much. Now, that doesn't say that it's necessarily a bad book, just that it was more bad than good for me. It's the way that they present the downside risk that is so harmful TO ME. The book talked like if you, for instance, nursed your baby to sleep and didn't put her down awake, you would never be able to get your child to learn to sleep on her own. It talked like if you redirected your child instead of punishing them, you would never teach them to have morals. And, I'm susceptible to this line of thinking, because I grew up in a household where the parents were violent and verbally abusive, and control freaky. That mode is more 'normal' to me than not. So to be different, which, with great difficulty, I have chosen to be, I have to not feed that 'natural' side of my head.

 

From my reading here on these boards, I am convinced that I'm not alone in this. And adding the weight of 'thus says the Lord' to the already dangerously control freaky style of the books, makes them bad for people like me, and for others who for various reasons are inclined or terrified not to follow them absolutely.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Carol in Cal.

[kmacnchs]

To quote my father (which I HATE doing), I think some are "majoring on the minors" when they say they don't agree with the book because of the title. So they could have picked a better title...okay. I love to read the Above Rubies magazine even though I don't do AP and they say that AP is right because it is God's way (by using scripture). Just because I do not agree that the only way is to do AP and nurse until my children are 2+ does not mean I disagree with Above Rubies and how it encourages me in many other areas...just using that as an example.