Remember the teacher who let her class vote out a student?....

[Tammy]

Well....the teacher is back, LOL! Here is the story....check out the responses under the story!

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/opinionzone/2009/06/14/teacher-voted-back-into-the-classroom/

 

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[SonshineLearner]

Well, we all lack judgement, sometimes. I'm not sure that I think she should be fired. I do think she needs some more classes on how to handle children and what is appropriate. You know, this all comes back to unions and such. Her principal should be able to go in and "see" her heart. "See" if she's loving on those children; fire her if she's not, and keep her if she is. Is she a teacher I'd want my children to have? Probably not, but maybe if she has a couple more hours in how to deal with kids, I'd rather have her than some of the teachers that don't control their classes...at all.

She made a STUPID, inconsiderate and BAD choice. But, maybe she can still teach well. It's hard to be able to tell without seeing her interact with her students.

Carrie

[Impish]

but its awaiting moderation. The other comments ticked me off completely! :banghead:

 

Impish Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm The child is *not* a brat. The child has Asperger’s Syndrome. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit and discover exactly what that entails before dismissing the child as a ‘brat’ and the mother as ‘anti discipline’. Neither could be further from the truth.

Frankly, calling a child with Asperger’s a ‘brat’ is like calling a paraplegic ‘lazy’ because they won’t walk.

[abbeyej]

Honestly, I'd question whether someone who made such a "stupid and inconsiderate" choice after twelve years of supposed experience teaching children was really doing such a great job in those twelve years anyway. Just because nothing else that ugly was made so public... Doesn't mean everything was happy and perfect.

 

She couldn't control her classroom, couldn't cope compassionately with a special needs child... It sounds to me like maybe teaching small children isn't the best place for her. Perhaps her principal could offer her some sort of lateral move that doesn't involve classroom (mis)management?

[Loupelou]

but its awaiting moderation. The other comments ticked me off completely! :banghead:

 

Impish Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm The child is *not* a brat. The child has Asperger’s Syndrome. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit and discover exactly what that entails before dismissing the child as a ‘brat’ and the mother as ‘anti discipline’. Neither could be further from the truth.

Frankly, calling a child with Asperger’s a ‘brat’ is like calling a paraplegic ‘lazy’ because they won’t walk.

 

:iagree: I left one too. I couldn't believe what I was reading!

 

Here's what I said:

"I am really disappointed by the majority of responses to this situation. We are talking about Kindergarten aged children. The lesson this teacher chose to instill in her children is essentially that if someone’s behavior is somehow bothersome or disruptive to you that the answer is to get rid of them. She is teaching them that an individual’s value is dependent upon what the majority thinks of him or her. I hope that in the interim this teacher has had a chance to reevaluate acceptable and age appropriate responses to these types of issues. I also hope that though she may get her teaching job back that she not be allowed to teach this particular group or in the same school."

 

LOL!

[Tabrett]

Please READ the article. This child was diagnosed with Aspergers AFTER this happened. The teacher had no idea he was a special needs child. Just to let you guys know, regular classroom teacher are not "special ed" teachers and have not had the proper training on how to teach children with disabilities. As far as the teacher was concerned he was a misbehaving child.

 

What would YOU do in a classroom with 20-25 children with one child that is so disruptive you can't teach day in and day out and your administrators won't do anything and the parent won't do anything. I have been there and done that. I think she was trying to to use peer pressure to manage the child's behavior.

 

Teachers are so limited in how they can discipline a child. It is like being in a room with your hands tied behind your back. I have been there and experienced the frustration of having no real authority over a disruptive child. I have seen parents cuss out teachers who's child was very disrespectful and disruptive.

 

I'm sorry to vent. But I have seen so many disruptive students who's parents bind a teachers hands to do anything. This is the main reason my dc are homeschooled; because of disruptive and undisciplined students, not bad teachers.

[Harriet Vane]

but its awaiting moderation. The other comments ticked me off completely! :banghead:

 

Impish Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm The child is *not* a brat. The child has Asperger’s Syndrome. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit and discover exactly what that entails before dismissing the child as a ‘brat’ and the mother as ‘anti discipline’. Neither could be further from the truth.

Frankly, calling a child with Asperger’s a ‘brat’ is like calling a paraplegic ‘lazy’ because they won’t walk.

 

I saw your comment and posted one of my own. Good for you! I was horrified to read some of the other posts.

[Brigitte]

Please READ the article. This child was diagnosed with Aspergers AFTER this happened. The teacher had no idea he was a special needs child. Just to let you guys know, regular classroom teacher are not "special ed" teachers and have not had the proper training on how to teach children with disabilities. As far as the teacher was concerned he was a misbehaving child.

 

What would YOU do in a classroom with 20-25 children with one child that is so disruptive you can't teach day in and day out and your administrators won't do anything and the parent won't do anything. I have been there and done that. I think she was trying to to use peer pressure to manage the child's behavior.

 

Teachers are so limited in how they can discipline a child. It is like being in a room with your hands tied behind your back. I have been there and experienced the frustration of having no real authority over a disruptive child. I have seen parents cuss out teachers who's child was very disrespectful and disruptive.

 

I'm sorry to vent. But I have seen so many disruptive students who's parents bind a teachers hands to do anything. This is the main reason my dc are homeschooled; because of disruptive and undisciplined students, not bad teachers.

 

I agree. While I don't necessarily think that voting him out of the class was the right thing to do, since he was not yet diagnosed, she had no way of knowing that she was dealing with a special needs kid.

[Dobela]

Please READ the article. This child was diagnosed with Aspergers AFTER this happened. The teacher had no idea he was a special needs child. Just to let you guys know, regular classroom teacher are not "special ed" teachers and have not had the proper training on how to teach children with disabilities. As far as the teacher was concerned he was a misbehaving child.

 

What would YOU do in a classroom with 20-25 children with one child that is so disruptive you can't teach day in and day out and your administrators won't do anything and the parent won't do anything. I have been there and done that. I think she was trying to to use peer pressure to manage the child's behavior.

 

Teachers are so limited in how they can discipline a child. It is like being in a room with your hands tied behind your back. I have been there and experienced the frustration of having no real authority over a disruptive child. I have seen parents cuss out teachers who's child was very disrespectful and disruptive.

 

I'm sorry to vent. But I have seen so many disruptive students who's parents bind a teachers hands to do anything. This is the main reason my dc are homeschooled; because of disruptive and undisciplined students, not bad teachers.

I just want to say AMEN! I taught more than one student with serious issues and was not allowed to discipline beyond what the parents agreed to. Even the principal had hands tied. I know that is to prevent abuse by the system but the system is also a victim.

 

Most regular ed teachers I know have never had a class on special needs children. If they were educated very long ago (as in pre 2000) they wouldn't have been taught about Autism or Aspergers anyway most likely. I was a special ed teacher and those were not in my education in the early 90s. I had never heard the words until 1997 when I was asked to teach 3 identified with autism.

 

I also have friends right now with a son that is seriously autistic. But they refuse to work with the school, refuse to have any testing done, refuse to allow modifications and help... So this child sits in a regular classroom and disrupts constantly. I feel terrible for the teachers that I know are beyond frustrated. They are not equiped to work with him and because the parents refuse other services, the district lets him continue to disrupt. I have worked with principals and superintendents that refuse to work with the teacher in matters like this as well.

 

Now, having said all that, the teacher didn't handle the situation in the best way. But it appears all has worked for good - the child has been identified properly and can now recieve assistance.I hate that it happened that way, but I really think we will see more instances like this in the future as teachers become more frustrated in a broken system.

[joannqn]

June 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm The child is *not* a brat. The child has Asperger’s Syndrome. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit and discover exactly what that entails before dismissing the child as a ‘brat’ and the mother as ‘anti discipline’. Neither could be further from the truth. Frankly, calling a child with Asperger’s a ‘brat’ is like calling a paraplegic ‘lazy’ because they won’t walk.

 

:iagree:

 

Having known two Asperger's kids and their parents, I agree with your comment completely.

 

Honestly, I'd question whether someone who made such a "stupid and inconsiderate" choice after twelve years of supposed experience teaching children was really doing such a great job in those twelve years anyway. Just because nothing else that ugly was made so public... Doesn't mean everything was happy and perfect.

 

:iagree:

 

The fact that she did this suggests, to me, that things probably weren't all peachy and wonderful during the 12 years prior. I can't see how someone who is willing to go to this extreme as being all smiles and patience with kids who are even a little disruptive. The only thing it tells me is that either she didn't do anything quite that extreme, or she wasn't called on what she did.

 

Please READ the article. This child was diagnosed with Aspergers AFTER this happened. The teacher had no idea he was a special needs child. Just to let you guys know, regular classroom teacher are not "special ed" teachers and have not had the proper training on how to teach children with disabilities. As far as the teacher was concerned he was a misbehaving child.

 

That hasn't stopped teachers/schools diagnosing kids and demanding they be medicated for ADHD. Could she have asked for help? Could she have met with the parents/principal/special ed teacher/etc. for ideas and assistance? Could she have looked at this boy and said, "Gee, nothing I'm doing is getting through to him. I wonder if someone else would have some ideas of how to handle him. I wonder if something else is going on here; maybe I should talk to the ________."

[Carol in Cal.]

I know so many kids on the spectrum, just from being out and about, and some are more obvious than others but all of them are noticably similar, just to differing degrees.

 

Wouldn't a teacher in this day and age have much more experience with that than I do, and be able to ask the right questions?

 

And even if she did not, which seems very unlikely, she has an absolute obligation to keep the children physically safe, and not to impinge herself on their emotional safety. She really, really messed up. Treating any child the way that she did is despicable and utterly immature. She has to be the adult here, and she abdicated her responsibilities completely.

 

(end rant)

(but still almost frothing at the mouth, frankly)

[Wildiris]

Why can't the teacher apologize to the child and his parents for her actions and take responsibility for the situation she created? I would be all for a teacher making a personal and public apology and then being reinstated as a teacher. Yet to blame others, the student, the lack of school support etc., does not excuse poor judgment. Everyone reaches a breaking point, and each of us acts with poor judgment at times; however it takes character to admit our mistakes and make amends to those we've injured.

[Tabrett]

In some states, teachers are not allowed to suggest that a child has a particular disability or need. When I worked in FL as a teacher, we were told to NOT suggest a child had ADHD. If the school suggested it then the school was responsible for doing all the work to get the child tested instead of the parents. It was a big NO-NO.

 

What about the parent? You mean to tell me, that after 5 years she didn't notice that something was different about her child? It's the school's and teachers responsibility to diagnose these types of problems?

 

I don't think so!

 

Schools are there to teach dc not diagnose medical problems. Schools DO have to accommodate the problem AFTER they are diagnosed, but a school is not a pediatrics's office.

 

Why are we expecting so much out or a teacher? The teacher is not the child's parent or doctor.

[Impish]

My comment was posted to the other ppl that commented on the article, calling the child a 'brat' and saying the mother was 'anti discipline' etc. People who READ the article and left comments.

 

And frankly, any teacher who decides to publicly shame a student by having the others vote him out doesn't need to be back there. Period. If that's her idea of managing a 'difficult' child, then she doesn't need to be in a classroom. I used 'difficult' because, as you say, he hadn't been dx'd yet.

 

However, the child was FIVE. If she's playing Survivor in your kindergarten class, I wonder how long it is before the children are hunting Piggy for gym with this teacher cheering them on?

[abbeyej]

Tabrett, his official diagnosis came since the event, but the original articles I read months ago mentioned that he was in the process of being evaluated for an autism spectrum disorder. His mother, the teacher, and the principal were all aware that he was dealing with special needs.

[Impish]

Tabrett, his official diagnosis came since the event, but the original articles I read months ago mentioned that he was in the process of being evaluated for an autism spectrum disorder. His mother, the teacher, and the principal were all aware that he was dealing with special needs.

I remember that as well, thanks for bringing that up.

[Orthodox6]

If that is true -- (I never heard of this case until running across this thread.) -- DID the mother inform the teacher and school staff that her son has Asperger's? DOES the boy receive any help (such as medication and/or therapy)? Or, does the boy's mother erroneously think that Asperger's will "just go away with time" ? I think these are fair questions. (And the answers maybe are available through earlier news articles to which I don't have access) If the mother is not taking care of her child properly in this sense, then she would have no grounds for anger toward a school which was not informed of the "full story." (I have an Asperger's son, and probably have Asperger's myself, which is why I respond in this mode.)

 

The teacher, meanwhile, sounds like someone severely lacking in common sense, in knowledge of disruptive and/or special needs children, and in all-purpose good manners ! Turning her classroom into some demented version of "Survivor !" is -- well -- demented !

 

P.S. Now I have read more of the posts, and see that everybody was aware that there was a problem in place. Learning this leaves me in the same spot for my thinking: Nobody pulled together to work as a team -- neither the school nor the parent(s). "Thumbs down" award for both "sides".

 

 

 

but its awaiting moderation. The other comments ticked me off completely! :banghead:

 

Impish Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm The child is *not* a brat. The child has Asperger’s Syndrome. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit and discover exactly what that entails before dismissing the child as a ‘brat’ and the mother as ‘anti discipline’. Neither could be further from the truth.

Frankly, calling a child with Asperger’s a ‘brat’ is like calling a paraplegic ‘lazy’ because they won’t walk.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Orthodox6

[katilac]

Please READ the article. This child was diagnosed with Aspergers AFTER this happened. The teacher had no idea he was a special needs child. Just to let you guys know, regular classroom teacher are not "special ed" teachers and have not had the proper training on how to teach children with disabilities. As far as the teacher was concerned he was a misbehaving child.

 

What would YOU do in a classroom with 20-25 children with one child that is so disruptive you can't teach day in and day out and your administrators won't do anything and the parent won't do anything. I have been there and done that. I think she was trying to to use peer pressure to manage the child's behavior.

 

Teachers are so limited in how they can discipline a child. It is like being in a room with your hands tied behind your back. I have been there and experienced the frustration of having no real authority over a disruptive child. I have seen parents cuss out teachers who's child was very disrespectful and disruptive.

 

I'm sorry to vent. But I have seen so many disruptive students who's parents bind a teachers hands to do anything. This is the main reason my dc are homeschooled; because of disruptive and undisciplined students, not bad teachers.

 

 

eh, I'm pretty appalled at the thought of a teacher with 12 years of experience having no idea that an undx child might have special needs.

 

surely, in those 12 years, she has seen students go from undx to dx? surely, in those 12 years, she has picked up the tiniest amount of information from other teachers, from reading, heck, from osmosis?

 

no matter, though, because a dx or lack thereof doesn't make her solution any better. it's not okay to vote special needs kids out of the classroom, and it's not okay to vote non-special needs kids out of the classroom.

 

while I have great sympathy for the discipline hurdles teachers face, I'm not sure what this 'solution' was supposed to achieve? it's not like you can actually lock the classroom door on this kid, so it seems to be an exercise in humiliation.

[Tabrett]

Tabrett, his official diagnosis came since the event, but the original articles I read months ago mentioned that he was in the process of being evaluated for an autism spectrum disorder. His mother, the teacher, and the principal were all aware that he was dealing with special needs.

Then why were they not giving the teacher an assistant or help? I never had any training on how to work with dc that had disabilities when I was studying to be a teacher.

 

I truly think we expect teachers to be super human; to never make a mistake. If you do, you are publicly executed.

 

I'm glad that we, as parents, are not under that type of microscope. How many times, as a parent, have we messed up? Our children weren't damaged. We ask for forgiveness and try to do better.

[Impish]

Original article

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story/Mom-says-special-needs-child-voted-out-of/QyNEX6ylA0m1mJ93eRCreQ.cspx

[clarkacademy]

I don't believe this teacher should be working. All I can say is that is the reason my special needs child is home where he can freak out if need be. Besides that poor little boy what is this teaching the other children?? Zero tolerance to difference maybe? Perhaps it should go back to when children like that had to be in those special places. I think it is a sad situation all the way around. Even if the child was "normal" noone should be treated that way in any matter. I don't care what the reason is.

[Audrey]

They're FIVE YEARS OLD! How could anyone in their right mind not know that getting "voted out" of something would be hurtful to a five year old? And what kind of &%$(@! would crush a little five year old on purpose?

 

She should get fired just for being so mean.

[Harriet Vane]

Then why were they not giving the teacher an assistant or help? I never had any training on how to work with dc that had disabilities when I was studying to be a teacher.

 

I truly think we expect teachers to be super human; to never make a mistake. If you do, you are publicly executed.

 

I'm glad that we, as parents, are not under that type of microscope. How many times, as a parent, have we messed up? Our children weren't damaged. We ask for forgiveness and try to do better.

 

It can be very, very difficult to get a school to appropriately accommodate a special needs student. It is a fight that can last months and yes, years. And, many (most?) schools have to see a student absolutely failing for a certain amount of time before they will consider starting an evaluation process. Even when a parent walks in the door with medical documentation it can be terribly difficult to get the necessary, appropriate accommodations--and it is even harder if the parent/child are still in the process of determining a diagnosis and appropriate education plan.

 

I know this because I have watched friends struggle with this with their special needs child. One friend starting homeschooling because the struggle with the school was so impossible--her son has become a totally different kid over the last two years. I have also watched my sister try to walk through this process to get her son help--she has been unsuccessful thus far despite the fact that he has a medical diagnosis and despite the fact that he has actually been failing in reading for two years.

 

It's so very, very hard to get a response from the bureaucracy. I'm sure an aid for that child would have made a world of difference.

[Alicia64]

what she did is not "an error in judgment." Her idea was more than stupid: it was way over the line.

 

I seriously doubt that this is her only "error" -- I bet that she does lots of things that many of us would be horrified by. This one got the attention.

 

Alicia

[Carol in Cal.]

What about the parent? You mean to tell me, that after 5 years she didn't notice that something was different about her child? It's the school's and teachers responsibility to diagnose these types of problems?

 

Why are we expecting so much out or a teacher? The teacher is not the child's parent or doctor.

 

 

As a parent, you might not have much basis for comparison. A teacher, OTOH, sees so many children that she develops a view of what's 'the normal range'. Unless a parent is in a parent participation program of some sort, or until she has had a lot of children, she might not have enough exposure to realize that her child is out of the normal range. Then it's not so easy to figure out what to do about that.

 

 

And in answer to the second question, I expect basic humanity from anyone in charge of children. This particular teacher overstepped those bounds by so much. I expect teachers to make mistakes like everyone else, but this was way beyond that.

[amy g.]

I'm a former Kindergarten teacher, and I feel like it would be pretty hard to miss the fact that this kid had special needs. I understand being frustrated by a child in a higher grade being disruptive, but in public Kindergarten the children come in with a HUGE range of abilities.

 

I've taught many kids who could not sit still for a story, control impulses or follow directions the entire school year. Most of those kids were completely normal, just not ready for a highly controlled academic environment.

 

I understand that this teacher may not have had specific training in special education, but surely, after 22 years, she has some idea of what is developmentally appropriate.

 

I believe this teacher is a bully and enjoys causing damage. I feel so sorry for any child that has been in her class.

[Cindyg]

Surely, even after an election, a teacher cannot just proclaim the child no longer in her class? Did the teacher walk him to the office and inform them that the kids voted him off the island, and now he's no longer welcome in her class? Surely she didn't expect the office to stand by the election? The whole idea is just wacky. ??

[TravelingChris]

I agree with the poster that the teacher is simply mean. I don't think you need to know anything about special ed to not be mean to 5 yo children. I also agree with the posters that most likely this teacher did a lot of things wrong but this incident got all the attention. I have had older disruptive children in my classes (Sunday School) and I have never voted anyone off the island. I have told the kids my expectations, I have had the sit apart for away, I have asked them if they would be happier sitting with their parents. I would never think to ostracize the child and in fact, always made sure that these kids, who usually were ostracvized by other kids) could be complimented on something they did do well. On such child turned out to have ADHD and after medication, was a lot calmer. I did notice that another Sunday School helper who worked in the Public School, was not as gentle with him as I was. I don't tolerate misbehavior at all. She tended to tolerate it more but then make snide comments. I am sure she gets frustrated with misbehaving children at school but the answer is not snide comments.