mommymilkies Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Has anyone seen this (posted 4 hours ago)? https://www.facebook.com/billnye?fref=ts http://www.homeschooldiaries.com/did-bill-nye-just-insult-the-homeschool-community-and-we-arent-talking-about-the-recent-debate/ Note: Idk everything on the blog, it just lined out what the issue was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Well that was a jacka$$ reply - even if I do like the guy otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I did, because I'm in that private group, lol.I'm bummed that he would perpetuate such a myth. You know, being a scientist and all. You don't know what you don't know. I hope he'll take 5 minutes to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Well, since I don't think that highly of him anyway……this doesn't surprise me at all. He has no children of his own does he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think many people, Bill Nye included, have a very false impression about what public schools are actually accomplishing. I see schools that are not doing a great job teaching science, not to mention public charter schools in parts of the country that teach creationism, plus schools that are not turning out students that work well together or cooperatively as a team. That's probably why quite a few of us are homeschooling - to achieve exactly what he thinks homeschoolers can't achieve. Then there are some very excellent public schools. Unfortunately, they are not equally available to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Did you know that Rick Warren performed the ceremony for his one and only marriage of 7 weeks? I was surprised! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think that it is easy for people to overgeneralize about homeschooling and not consider all the real ways that people do homeschool science. For example, working in small co-ops and groups. It's not all that surprising to me that he would not be up on homeschooling. Nor do I really think that as a BA in Engineering he would be fully qualified to write a great comprehensive curriculum for science. ETA: And if Nye published a curriculum, my irrational bias against him would prevent me from considering it much. I am crazy, I know but I maintain there is something very creepy about how he looks. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadieMarie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am disappointed but not surprised. Why should he know much about homeschooling, let alone secular homeschooling? I run into this a lot among my progressive/liberal friends and acquaintances. I am giving up on the public good of good public schools by dropping out. I don't care about all the children who can't be homeschooled. I am throwing my lot in with fundamentalist Christians and libertarians lol. If my friends and neighbor's children can thrive in school, then mine can too. The schools here are wonderful... It is good to persevere and make things better instead of walking away or quitting. It goes on and on. All I have to do is say that I homeschool and it opens a floodgate of stories about the many positive experiences they and their children have had with the schools here. The only friends I have who really get it have special needs kids and had their own struggles/problems with the schools. I am envious of people who hs primarily for religious reasons for not having to deal with this from friends, or I assuming that is the case anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I don't think he answered the question posed regarding a science curriculum. He could have said, "no plans to write one" or "I recommend [xxx]." Unfortunately, he replied with a comment on socialization. His experience with Ham may have been foremost in his mind, as opposed to the commenter's concerns. I think it was dismissive, but it won't stop me from using his videos for my kids. The cocooning isn't just an issue in the homeschool world. Twenty years ago at a major public university filled with public and private students, I took a pre-med/pre-vet biology course, and the professor prefaced his lecture with a comment on evolution as a theory and how it makes no comment on origins. Knowing this man's excellent scientific background, I was incredulous he would hedge his comments, but I realized he was protecting himself from the students who inevitably would approach after class wanting to debate evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnTeaching Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 For someone who is supposed to be so smart AND a scientist who is supposed to have an open mind, I have found him to be a bit too arrogant for my taste. (And I am NOT talking about the whole religious debate thing. Just his attitude in general.) I hope someone will enlighten him on some of the following info: So I wonder what he would say about Erik Demaine: (From thebestcolleges dot org) When Erik Demaine joined the faculty of Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) he was 20, and the youngest professor ever in the history of the school. Demaine homeschooled while traveling around the United States with his father, a goldsmith and glassblower. Demaine started college when he was 12, and finished his bachelor’s degree two years later at age 14. In addition to being a mathematical and computational genius, Demaine is something of an artist. He wrote his dissertation on the computational logic of origami, and is known as the leading theoretician oforigami mathematics, which uses paper origami models to understand mathematical concepts and apply them to disciplines like architecture, robotics and molecular biology. In 2008 Demain collaborated with his father on an artistic collection of mathematical origami, which was displayed at the Museum of Modern Art and ultimately incorporated into the museum’s permanent collection OR what about Sho Yano and Sayuri: Sho Yano is an Asian-American child prodigy with an estimated IQ of 200. His father is from Japan and his mother from South Korea. Yano was reading at two, writing at three, playing piano at four, and composing at five. Yano graduated summa cum laude from Loyola University Chicago when he was 12 and earned a PhD from the University of Chicago in molecular genetics and cell biology when he was 18, the youngest ever to earn a PhD there. He is currently in medical school working on an MD. Yano’s mom decided to homeschool her son after realizing how much more advanced he was than the other students at his school and how much more seriously he took his academic work. Mrs. Yano has written several books in Korean on homeschooling and homeschools Sho’s little sister, Sayuri, an academic and musical prodigy in her own right. Sayuri recently finished her bachelors degree in biology at Roosevelt University. She’s 13. Perhaps he has forgotten the following scientists and mathematicians were all homeschoolers (from famoushomeschooler dot net): Benjamin Banneker first African-American scientist Reid Bartonmathematician and programmer; first student to win four gold medals at the International Mathematical Olympiad Wilson A Bentley"The Snowflake Man" George Washington Carver agricultural researcher Augustin-Louis Cauchy French mathematician Pafnuty Chebyshev Russian mathematician Pierre Curie discovered radium Albert Einsteintheoretical physicist Paul Erdos Hungarian mathematician Michael Faraday electrochemist Pierre de Fermat greatest amateur mathematician in history Evariste Galois French mathematical prodigy Sophie Germain French mathematician Pierre-Gilles de Gennes Nobel Prize winner in physics William Hamilton Irish mathematician Oliver Heaviside electromagnetism researcher Fred Hoyle British physicist T.H. Huxley biologist, zoologist, Darwinist Carl Jacobi German mathematician Ruth Lawrence mathematician Gilbert Newton Lewis physical chemist John D. Linsley astrophysicist Ada Lovelace founder of scientific computing Benoit Mandelbrot pioneer in fractal geometry Isaac Newton English physicist, astronomer, mathematician Blaise Pascal French mathematician and philosopher Charles Sanders Peirce American logician, mathematician, philosopher Henri Poincaré French mathematician and man of letters Joseph Priestley father of modern chemistry Bernhard Riemann German mathematician Erwin Schrodinger Austrian physicist Samuel C. C. Ting Chinese American physicist Konstantin TsiolkovskyRussian rocket scientist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Not shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I hope someone will enlighten him on some of the following info: He's a scientist, not a homeschool advocate. I didn't know any of this either and I've been educating at home the better part of ten years, lol. Besides, as much as you guys might not like it, the stereotype of homeschooling is not favorable on the outside. We see lots of Jesus Camp examples of "science" in the homeschool community. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the majority of home education with which he is familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Geez Albeto. The comment he made was on socialization, which is a stereotype for all of us. Why make it about Christians at all. I for one don't even use religious curriculum currently & never exclusively. Perhaps you are stereotyping as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Listing people like Newton and Pascal on lists of famous homeschoolers is a habit that I find extremely annoying. Everyone in their days who had an education started that education at home working with a tutor or a parent. It's ok to point out that homeschooling is a return in some ways to a traditional education method but it's just messed up to lump people who were essentially tutored at home before the advent of grade schools with modern day home schoolers. IMHO. Just saying, as a big supporter of homeschooling and a homeschool parent of 4 years myself. It's disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Omg that video made me nauseous. Seriously. I wish I hadn't watched it. I can't even... Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Geez Albeto. The comment he made was on socialization, which is a stereotype for all of us. Why make it about Christians at all. I for one don't even use religious curriculum currently & never exclusively. Perhaps you are stereotyping as well. This is the common impression of homeschoolers to the outside, and exactly what Bill Nye is publicly speaking out against. It's reasonable to assume that his familiarity with homeschooling is just like this - kids who are isolated from the rest of society for the purpose of maintaining a particular belief. Socialization is part of the issue. Did you hear the mother's comment about why she should send her child to school eight hours a day if she can do just as good a job? That's frightening to many of us because not only is she not doing a good a job, she's segregating her child in order to keep him surrounded by like-minded people. This has to do with socialization - how can that kid learn to be a part of a greater community if he's isolated at home, at church, and only allowed to seriously interact and foster friendships and relationships with people who think like his parents? It's all tied in for many of us, even if you separate it yourself. I can only imagine it's all tied in for Bill Nye as well. It's the most reasonable explanation for his comment, I think: ignorance about the diversity found in the homeschooling community and a strong stereotype based on a large percentage of the homeschooling population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 His comments do not surprise me at all. He comes off as very arrogant and opposed to anyone who does things outside of the box in general. :leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 He's a scientist, not a homeschool advocate. I didn't know any of this either and I've been educating at home the better part of ten years, lol. Besides, as much as you guys might not like it, the stereotype of homeschooling is not favorable on the outside. We see lots of Jesus Camp examples of "science" in the homeschool community. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the majority of home education with which he is familiar. That was terrifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am disappointed but not surprised. Why should he know much about homeschooling, let alone secular homeschooling? I run into this a lot among my progressive/liberal friends and acquaintances. I am giving up on the public good of good public schools by dropping out. I don't care about all the children who can't be homeschooled. I am throwing my lot in with fundamentalist Christians and libertarians lol. If my friends and neighbor's children can thrive in school, then mine can too. The schools here are wonderful... It is good to persevere and make things better instead of walking away or quitting. It goes on and on. All I have to do is say that I homeschool and it opens a floodgate of stories about the many positive experiences they and their children have had with the schools here. The only friends I have who really get it have special needs kids and had their own struggles/problems with the schools. I am envious of people who hs primarily for religious reasons for not having to deal with this from friends, or I assuming that is the case anyway. Just tell them you believe in diversity in education, and they are getting way too judgy in their need for conformity. :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Geez Albeto. The comment he made was on socialization, which is a stereotype for all of us. Why make it about Christians at all. I for one don't even use religious curriculum currently & never exclusively. Perhaps you are stereotyping as well. I think albeto's comment is relevant and spot on. After all, didn't Nye just debate Ken Ham? What kind of stereotype do you think he has in mind? The very one shown in the video clip albeto linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 That was terrifying. Try watching the entire documentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am disappointed but not surprised. Why should he know much about homeschooling, let alone secular homeschooling? I run into this a lot among my progressive/liberal friends and acquaintances. I am giving up on the public good of good public schools by dropping out. I don't care about all the children who can't be homeschooled. I am throwing my lot in with fundamentalist Christians and libertarians lol. If my friends and neighbor's children can thrive in school, then mine can too. The schools here are wonderful... It is good to persevere and make things better instead of walking away or quitting. It goes on and on. All I have to do is say that I homeschool and it opens a floodgate of stories about the many positive experiences they and their children have had with the schools here. The only friends I have who really get it have special needs kids and had their own struggles/problems with the schools. I am envious of people who hs primarily for religious reasons for not having to deal with this from friends, or I assuming that is the case anyway. i got it from doctors when I was trying to get help for dudeling. and looks of horror on other's faces. they all expect homeschooling to be about fundamentalist hates society mentality. the ones most opposed either haven't taken the time to actually learn about the resources out there, or are simply defensive and become competitive to justify their own choice. I've seen the same type of competition from people when I've chosen a different kind of car from them. they've felt a need to put down what I bought, to say how great their choice was. (no, not exaggerating. menality is the same.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just as I don't want others to make it their mission to convince me that school is a better option, I don't make it my mission to convert those who favor schools. Bill Nye can think whatever he wants about homeschooling, and it doesn't affect me ... just as other people's opinions on veganism, adoption, and my chosen religion don't affect me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 He may have had a certain type of religious homeschooler in mind with his reply, but the question to which he was replying came from a secular homeschooler. It was an ignorant and unfortunate reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This is the common impression of homeschoolers to the outside, and exactly what Bill Nye is publicly speaking out against. It's reasonable to assume that his familiarity with homeschooling is just like this - kids who are isolated from the rest of society for the purpose of maintaining a particular belief. Socialization is part of the issue. Did you hear the mother's comment about why she should send her child to school eight hours a day if she can do just as good a job? That's frightening to many of us because not only is she not doing a good a job, she's segregating her child in order to keep him surrounded by like-minded people. This has to do with socialization - how can that kid learn to be a part of a greater community if he's isolated at home, at church, and only allowed to seriously interact and foster friendships and relationships with people who think like his parents? It's all tied in for many of us, even if you separate it yourself. I can only imagine it's all tied in for Bill Nye as well. It's the most reasonable explanation for his comment, I think: ignorance about the diversity found in the homeschooling community and a strong stereotype based on a large percentage of the homeschooling population. It is not about Christianity. I agree though, it is about ignorance. People feel public school creates a social environment that cannot be nurtured otherwise. Kids need to be in school. Whether you're a hippie, fundamentalist, or secular atheist - if your kids aren't in school the overall consensus from non-homeschoolers is the lack of socialization. Bill Nye answered in a very stereotypical manner. Not shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnTeaching Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Listing people like Newton and Pascal on lists of famous homeschoolers is a habit that I find extremely annoying. Everyone in their days who had an education started that education at home working with a tutor or a parent. It's ok to point out that homeschooling is a return in some ways to a traditional education method but it's just messed up to lump people who were essentially tutored at home before the advent of grade schools with modern day home schoolers. IMHO. Just saying, as a big supporter of homeschooling and a homeschool parent of 4 years myself. It's disingenuous. An how exactly is a homeschooler different today just because there has been the "advent of grade schools"? Are you saying people today are not as smart as the people were back in the 1600's? Are you saying that the parents and tutors are not as smart? Are you stating that just because there is an elementary/middle/high school down the street, that people cannot homeschool and be as successful as a Newton or a Pascal? These men were homeschooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think albeto's comment is relevant and spot on. After all, didn't Nye just debate Ken Ham? What kind of stereotype do you think he has in mind? The very one shown in the video clip albeto linked. Umm. He has Facebook! Did you not see the outcry from homeschoolers against Ken Ham reach out to Bill Nye. Pretty sure he is more aware than this forum has given him credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 An how exactly is a homeschooler different today just because there has been the "advent of grade schools"? Are you saying people today are not as smart as the people were back in the 1600's? Are you saying that the parents and tutors are not as smart? Are you stating that just because there is an elementary/middle/high school down the street, that people cannot homeschool and be as successful as a Newton or a Pascal? These men were homeschooled. I am stating that they were participating in the norm for primary education in their day, in their social class. Homeschoolers today are not. Homeschoolers today are participating in a very small and, while growing, near fringe activity. People who choose to homeschool today are making a choice, often not for strictly educational reasons. People then were doing just what was the normal option for their time. It's just not the same thing. Times have changed. No, I don't think that people were smarter then or now. I just think that claiming Newton as a homeschooler is as weak an argument as claiming most US Presidents and senators before, say, 1900 were homeschooled. It's a weak argument and I expect better from my fellow homeschoolers. Newton attended school from age 12 on after being in the care of his grandmother after his mother remarried. It's not like he showed up at Cambridge without any schooling. Most people didn't go to school at that point until they were ready to live at the school and only then if they had some degree of class privilege. Newton's dad had been a prosperous farmer. His stepdad was clergy. Neighborhood classes and tutors or an educated parent was just how it was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnTeaching Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yeah. Same with the examples of prodigies. They are unusual and not caused by method of schooling. In the cases given above, these "prodigies" were not going to be allowed to progress at the rate of their ability in their schools. Their parents gave them that ability and I am sure at least helped to guide them. I would definitely call that a "method of schooling". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 These men were homeschooled. No, those men were privileged to receive the education that the wealthiest and most aristocratic of their time received. It would be the equivalent of parents today sending their kids to the $40,000-a-year private schools that send kids on expeditions to the South Pole and have their own NASA-sponsored rocket labs. As ardent a homeschooling supporter as I am, I can't deny that those types of schools provide things I never could, and they position their graduates to enter a world and culture that is very hard to break into otherwise. The regular folks who might have had some education at home in those days generally didn't get the type and quality of education that the notables of history did (with some exceptions, of course, because their are exceptions to everything, except, of course, the things which have no exceptions. ;) ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnTeaching Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am stating that they were participating in the norm for primary education in their day, in their social class. Homeschoolers today are not. Homeschoolers today are participating in a very small and, while growing, near fringe activity. People who choose to homeschool today are making a choice, often not for strictly educational reasons. People then were doing just what was the normal option for their time. It's just not the same thing. Times have changed. No, I don't think that people were smarter then or now. I just think that claiming Newton as a homeschooler is as weak an argument as claiming most US Presidents and senators before, say, 1900 were homeschooled. It's a weak argument and I expect better from my fellow homeschoolers. I still see absolutely no connection between what the "norm" is or was to whether or not a person is successful as a homeschooler or can "call" themselves a homeschooler. Your argument makes no sense to me. Are you saying that because they had no other option back then, it makes no difference that their parents were their teachers? Are you saying that because a person chooses to homeschool today, rather than go to the public school down the street, they are somehow different that the kid that sat at the kitchen table studying by candlelight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I still see absolutely no connection between what the "norm" is or was to whether or not a person is successful as a homeschooler or can "call" themselves a homeschooler. Your argument makes no sense to me. Are you saying that because they had no other option back then, it makes no difference that their parents were their teachers? Are you saying that because a person chooses to homeschool today, rather than go to the public school down the street, they are somehow different that the kid that sat at the kitchen table studying by candlelight? We have no way of knowing who their teachers were unless they wrote it down. Did you realize that Newton went to boarding school from age 12 on? We know he didn't live at home with his mom and stepdad from the time he was 3. We don't know if his grandmother, who he lived with, was well educated enough to school him. It is also quite possible he had some male tutor or was sent to learn the basics with a local person outside of a school setting. Not being in school before age 12 doesn't mean that he was learning from mom or dad. In his case we know for sure he was not learning from mom or dad as he didn't live with mom and he was born after the death of his father. I think that lumping in these famous but fairly distant past intellectual giants with modern homeschooling is a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think that pointing out that 17th century aristocrats were taught by private tutors at home and thus "homeschooled" is not only disingenuous (as someone else said), it's also incredibly easy to counter by pointing out that they also didn't have running water... both plumbing and public education have come a long way :) I also think it's pretty easy to counter because these men were taught by experts in their field... if someone hires only science PhDs to teach their child science, only published authors to teach them English, etc, as their form of homeschooling, then I would consider it pretty much the same thing :) Not to mention that the goal back then was most certainly not to foster any sort of educational individuality... quite the opposite. It was to prep boys in the subjects they needed (mostly Latin) to succeed in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 So Bill Nye thinks the Science on Homeschooling is settled? Perhaps he's missing a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnTeaching Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 We have no way of knowing who their teachers were unless they wrote it down. Did you realize that Newton went to boarding school from age 12 on? We know he didn't live at home with his mom and stepdad from the time he was 3. We don't know if his grandmother, who he lived with, was well educated enough to school him. It is also quite possible he had some male tutor or was sent to learn the basics with a local person outside of a school setting. Not being in school before age 12 doesn't mean that he was learning from mom or dad. In his case we know for sure he was not learning from mom or dad as he didn't live with mom and he was born after the death of his father. I think that lumping in these famous but fairly distant past intellectual giants with modern homeschooling is a stretch. OK, I concede you have a point. (I am thoroughly enjoying the debate about this, by the way. I've understand your point and those made by others- Sadie, Tara, momma2three, etc. for quite a while now, but I still believe that credit should be given where parents did have a big hand in their children's educational success even though it was as far back as the 1600's.) OK, so if someone were to try and enlighten Bill Nye on the successes of homeschooling in the science arena, what would you consider the "rules" for listing those successes should be? Only people who have been homeschooled since 1635 when the first public school in America was founded? (That would include quite a few of our Presidents, wouldn't it?) Or by the year 1870 when all of the states had free elementary schools? Or only people who have homeschooled since the "modern" movement of homeschooling began in the 1970's? No prodigies are allowed I assume? No one whose parents have hired specialized tutors? (So I guess that would leave me out since we have used Lukeion and Pennsylvania Homeschoolers). What does everyone think the parameters should be to show science successes within the homeschool community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 He may have had a certain type of religious homeschooler in mind with his reply, but the question to which he was replying came from a secular homeschooler. It was an ignorant and unfortunate reply. I suspect (hope) his ignorance about home education will be addressed soon. Perhaps this is his introduction to the idea that home educators are not all religious, and we do have a very real and serious need to find legitimate scientific educational sources for our children who are not educated in conventional ways. It is a real problem. It's too bad he didn't have a solution. I hope this makes a difference. If notable education advocates can put a spotlight on some scientific curricula for home education, how cool would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 OK, I concede you have a point. (I am thoroughly enjoying the debate about this, by the way. I've understand your point and those made by others- Sadie, Tara, momma2three, etc. for quite a while now, but I still believe that credit should be given where parents did have a big hand in their children's educational success even though it was as far back as the 1600's.) OK, so if someone were to try and enlighten Bill Nye on the successes of homeschooling in the science arena, what would you consider the "rules" for listing those successes should be? Only people who have been homeschooled since 1635 when the first public school in America was founded? (That would include quite a few of our Presidents, wouldn't it?) Or by the year 1870 when all of the states had free elementary schools? Or only people who have homeschooled since the "modern" movement of homeschooling began in the 1970's? No prodigies are allowed I assume? No one whose parents have hired specialized tutors? (So I guess that would leave me out since we have used Lukeion and Pennsylvania Homeschoolers). What does everyone think the parameters should be to show science successes within the homeschool community? I don't think we need to cherry pick some amazing success story to show that homeschooling is not what he apparently thinks it is. The fact is that the vast majority of homeschoolers, just like the vast majority of public schoolers, do not go on to be world-famous scientists. And that's fine: if my kids go on to do that I sure think it would be amazing, but it's not my goal. And it's totally irrelevant, because it has nothing to do with what he said. He said nothing like "homeschooling has never turned out a brilliant scientist." He said "the future of the world is learning how to collaborate with other people." And I actually think that he's absolutely correct. I just don't think that a brick and mortar school is the only way. My daughter goes to a homeschooling program 3 days a week. Many homeschooled kids go to similar programs, or coops. Even things like Classical Conversations require kids to work together. I think that many homeschoolers try to find other areas for their kids to work with others... Scouting or youth sports. If one reads the high school board here, so many people have their kids in college classes, online classes, homeschool groups. That is what he is wrong about, and that's what should be corrected, IMO. He basically trotted out the whole socialization argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 OK, I concede you have a point. (I am thoroughly enjoying the debate about this, by the way. I've understand your point and those made by others- Sadie, Tara, momma2three, etc. for quite a while now, but I still believe that credit should be given where parents did have a big hand in their children's educational success even though it was as far back as the 1600's.) OK, so if someone were to try and enlighten Bill Nye on the successes of homeschooling in the science arena, what would you consider the "rules" for listing those successes should be? Only people who have been homeschooled since 1635 when the first public school in America was founded? (That would include quite a few of our Presidents, wouldn't it?) Or by the year 1870 when all of the states had free elementary schools? Or only people who have homeschooled since the "modern" movement of homeschooling began in the 1970's? No prodigies are allowed I assume? No one whose parents have hired specialized tutors? (So I guess that would leave me out since we have used Lukeion and Pennsylvania Homeschoolers). What does everyone think the parameters should be to show science successes within the homeschool community? Unfortunately, I suspect that people who share Bill Nye's opinion of homeschooling are only going to be swayed by current examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It is not about Christianity. I agree though, it is about ignorance. People feel public school creates a social environment that cannot be nurtured otherwise. Kids need to be in school. Whether you're a hippie, fundamentalist, or secular atheist - if your kids aren't in school the overall consensus from non-homeschoolers is the lack of socialization. Bill Nye answered in a very stereotypical manner. Not shocked. I think Christianity cannot be separated from the stereotype of homeschooling. There exists a stereotype of the unsocialized child because children like the ones in the documentary are carefully sequestered in order to socialize only with certain people - those who uphold and defend a particular religious belief. This religious belief specifically ignores information and neglects scientific education. Bill Nye addresses scientific neglect, and in doing so becomes familiar with the community of people who stand out (proudly!) for religious reasons. It should come as no surprise to see people link the two, and it should serve as a wake-up call to non religious homeschoolers if anything. We're getting lost in a sea of imagery that is not representative of us, our values, or our accomplishments. It's not Bill Nye's fault that he can't hear the whisper of dissent among the shouting of the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I suspect (hope) his ignorance about home education will be addressed soon. Perhaps this is his introduction to the idea that home educators are not all religious, and we do have a very real and serious need to find legitimate scientific educational sources for our children who are not educated in conventional ways. It is a real problem. It's too bad he didn't have a solution. I hope this makes a difference. If notable education advocates can put a spotlight on some scientific curricula for home education, how cool would that be?I think you are making assumptions. Bill Nye never insinuated anything in regard to the conclusions you're drawing. He clearly did imply that homeschooling cannot meet social needs of children and it's a disservice to them. The poster asking the question was secular. Almost all of the posts following are secular. He isn't misunderstanding the question, simply outright disagreeing that homeschooling is a good option. He has had an enormous response from secular homeschoolers supporting him, so he isn't oblivious here. As for secular science options. There are good choices for homeschoolers. It's not as though they are non existent. Not to mention the many curricula schools use that are easily adaptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think Christianity cannot be separated from the stereotype of homeschooling. There exists a stereotype of the unsocialized child because children like the ones in the documentary are carefully sequestered in order to socialize only with certain people - those who uphold and defend a particular religious belief. This religious belief specifically ignores information and neglects scientific education. Bill Nye addresses scientific neglect, and in doing so becomes familiar with the community of people who stand out (proudly!) for religious reasons. It should come as no surprise to see people link the two, and it should serve as a wake-up call to non religious homeschoolers if anything. We're getting lost in a sea of imagery that is not representative of us, our values, or our accomplishments. It's not Bill Nye's fault that he can't hear the whisper of dissent among the shouting of the majority. Yes. But you are assuming that documentary would be 1) seen by most people and 2) accepted as typical. I've never seen it. Heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes. But you are assuming that documentary would be 1) seen by most people and 2) accepted as typical. I've never seen it. Heard of it. This stereotype wasn't created by the documentary. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 He clearly did imply that homeschooling cannot meet social needs of children and it's a disservice to them. The poster asking the question was secular. Almost all of the posts following are secular. He isn't misunderstanding the question, simply outright disagreeing that homeschooling is a good option. He has had an enormous response from secular homeschoolers supporting him, so he isn't oblivious here. Yes he is opposed to all forms of Home schooling. Whether homeschoolers are Christian or Secular is none of his beeswax. He specifically said during the infamous debate that they need "Our" children(or something similar). I believe he sees PS as the means to accomplish that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This stereotype wasn't created by the documentary. :) I think you are assuming Bill Nye based his comment on something that was influenced by religious homeschoolers, when I see his comment as simply coming from a stance against home education as a poor option all around, regardless of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 He is clearly not exposed to homeschooling. Plenty of people don't think it is a good option. I don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me. As for secular science options. There are good choices for homeschoolers. It's not as though they are none existent. Not to mention the many curricula schools use that are easily adaptable. I agree. There are loads of good options. I have no idea why anyone would want or need Bill Nye's endorsement. Thinkwell Science Holt Biology Miller-Levine Biology Pearson Physics http://www.derekowens.com/course_info_physics.php Holt McDougal Physics Pearson Chemistry RS4K Chemistry-High School Level http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/CK01/ck01-main.html Holt McDougal Modern Chemistry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I was thinking of my bil - PhD in Environmental Science. Nothing has yet convinced him that homeschooling can do the job as well as a good school. His current opinion is not due to religious homeschoolers. Bill Nye's comment actually reminded me of him. As it is, my children are beautifully average, but nat least I've been able to show him the secular/evolution accepting side of homeschooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I agree with PPs. He wasn't referring to religion at all. It was clearly stated that she was a secular homeschooler. He is running on the assumption, apparently, that all homeschoolers homeschool in isolation and their kids sit in rooms, all alone, studying by themselves for years and years then are shoved into society for the first time when they hit college age or get a job out of highschool. His comment shows his complete ignorance about homeschooling in general, not any specific assumption regarding religious association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnTeaching Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just as I don't want others to make it their mission to convince me that school is a better option, I don't make it my mission to convert those who favor schools. Bill Nye can think whatever he wants about homeschooling, and it doesn't affect me ... just as other people's opinions on veganism, adoption, and my chosen religion don't affect me. I am not sure that I would want to try and convince him that homeschooling is "better" than public school. In some cases, public school is much better than what children are receiving in their homes. However, I think that a statement such as the one he just made about homeschooling is based largely on ignorance of how most (not all) homeschoolers handle their education and socialization. Unfortunately, he is perpetuating that ignorance by spreading it to the 2.2 million "likes" he has on his Facebook. If you are a homeschooler, it actually may be affecting you when a prominent and well-regarded "celebrity" makes a statement such as this. Maybe not personally, but it is affecting the perception of homeschooling. There are many, many people out there who would like to see homeschooling outlawed and eliminated. We are enjoying a freedom that could easily be taken from us. It would just be nice if a gentleman such as this could be spreading the fact that quite a few homeschoolers out there actually do collaborate with others and know how to work on teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) nm Edited February 11, 2014 by Moderator Personal attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am not sure that I would want to try and convince him that homeschooling is "better" than public school. In some cases, public school is much better than what children are receiving in their homes. However, I think that a statement such as the one he just made about homeschooling is based largely on ignorance of how most (not all) homeschoolers handle their education and socialization. Unfortunately, he is perpetuating that ignorance by spreading it to the 2.2 million "likes" he has on his Facebook. If you are a homeschooler, it actually may be affecting you when a prominent and well-regarded "celebrity" makes a statement such as this. Maybe not personally, but it is affecting the perception of homeschooling. There are many, many people out there who would like to see homeschooling outlawed and eliminated. We are enjoying a freedom that could easily be taken from us. It would just be nice if a gentleman such as this could be spreading the fact that quite a few homeschoolers out there actually do collaborate with others and know how to work on teams. Yes..there are those who have no direct experience with homeschooling or only a couple of bad examples and then turn around and ACTIVELY HATE homeschooling. Some are in positions of power and are working hard to eliminate this as an option. Having someone with a large following make statements like that can hurt the homeschooling community in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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