Why do we have to learn grammar?

[Alison in KY]

And yes, I'm totally serious.:confused:

 

Alison

[Kelli in TN]

I knew some homeschoolers who apparently did not believe in teaching grammar. One of their daughters ended up at the same college as my daughter. They were in Spanish together.

 

Several of the girls in the Spanish class would get together with this girl and tutor her in basic grammar because she was so very lost in college Spanish. It was not the Spanish that was tripping her up, it was basic grammar terms. The girl told her tutors that her parents had told her that grammar was common sense and she did not need to know all of the rules and the terms. She was embarrassed to have to be helped so much when all the other students were getting together to study vocabulary and such.

 

I was really glad we put an emphasis on grammar.

[Lucy the Valiant]

1. To gain the brain exercise of analyzing and classifying.

 

2. To understand the structure of the English language well enough to conjugate in a foreign language (many English-speaking kids learn more about ENGLISH grammar by learning FOREIGN grammar).

 

3. To be able to write proficiently enough to express one's opinion and be understood by one's peers.

 

4. To understand a writer's intent (for example - a panda who eats, shoots, and leaves is quite a different animal than one who eats shoots and leave. :wink: )

 

:)

[mcconnellboys]

Well, as Kelli mentioned, it would certainly help in learning other languages. And as Katie mentioned, analyzing and classifying is good exercise for the brain no matter the topic used to do that. Also, I think that at some point in time, attempting to accomplish more complex writing would get extremely sticky without a solid, working knowledge of basic grammar. If one is not going to pursue higher education, or ever have the need to learn a language, write much of anything, etc., then it might not be necessary. I think there are certainly some schools that don't teach it any more....

[Testimony]

You need to know how to analyze. I am teaching my son because I bombed on my SATs for college in grammar. I did not want my sons to bomb either. I need my children to know how to understand the English language and foreign languages.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[LizzyBee]

I cannot even count the number of books and articles I couldn't finish because the grammar errors were too annoying. And I don't mean that the authors broke obscure rules that only people with a PhD in English would even know. I'm talking about very basic grammar that even a business major such as myself knows. I tell my kids that if they want people to take them seriously, they can't just state their opinions; they have to speak and write correctly. In order to do that, they have to learn and practice correct grammar.

[Alana in Canada]

One mark of an educated person is their ability to speak and write well.

 

 

 

Reason #125

So you can be snooty and know that person (singular noun) needs a singular possessive pronoun (his or her) and not one in the plural (their).

 

(I'm feeling very cheeky at the moment, that's all! And I'm showing off as we just learned about pronouns last week! :D Nuthin' personal intended, nohow to nobody.)

Edited March 29, 2009 by Alana in Canada

[Harriet Vane]

You cannot expect to excel at any sport without putting in time to practice. Every great athlete has countless hours of not only game situations, but also and especially drills wherein specific skills were/are practiced over and over.

 

You cannot expect to excel as a writer or speaker without putting in the time to understand the rules and to practice. Since any and every academic discipline requires some level of writing and speaking, these are skills that every student needs to practice, understand, and master.

[abbeyej]

Reason #125

So you can be snooty and know that person (singular noun) needs a singular possessive pronoun (his or hers) and not one in the plural (their).

 

Except that because English has no 3rd person singular neuter/common personal pronoun, the word "their" has come to be used for that function in informal speech (and writing).

[ekarl2]

I cannot even count the number of books and articles I couldn't finish because the grammar errors were too annoying. And I don't mean that the authors broke obscure rules that only people with a PhD in English would even know. I'm talking about very basic grammar that even a business major such as myself knows. I tell my kids that if they want people to take them seriously, they can't just state their opinions; they have to speak and write correctly. In order to do that, they have to learn and practice correct grammar.

 

 

Yup, this is the biggest reason for me. I always tell my students that I teach them grammar so they won't embarrass themselves or, more importantly, ME when they speak or write. Knowing how to punctuate and use English correctly means you have to know the rules. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to learn and understand the rules if you don't understand the grammar upon which those rules are based.

 

1. When is it "who," and when is it "whom"? (You can't get this correct all the time unless you know the difference between an object and a subject ... your ear won't tell you.)

 

2. How do you know where to put all the commas (or where NOT to put all the commas) if you don't know what a non-essential participial phrase or an introductory adverb clause is?

 

3. How can you always construct parallel sentences if you don't know what MAKES them parallel (gerunds, infinitives, etc.)?

 

I will say this, though. Just because grammar is important to learn, doesn't mean it has to be unduly difficult or take YEARS to do it. Grammar isn't a large body of knowledge; it doesn't take 6 to 10 years to cover it all. It should be taught once the child is ready to learn it and then just reinforced periodically instead of teaching it year after year.

 

Just my 2 cents. :tongue_smilie:

[ekarl2]

Except that because English has no 3rd person singular neuter/common personal pronoun, the word "their" has come to be used for that function in informal speech (and writing).

 

 

We really need to invent one, don't we? What about "hizzer"? Or maybe "heris"??

[iammommy]

Now I understand a bit more. Especially where foreign languages are concerned.

 

I had a strong grammar background in school, including lots of diagramming. I hated it then, but am glad I had the exposure. However, I do think that we go into greater detail than is necessary at too early an age. But that's me...the delayed academic type.:001_smile:

 

Last year, in a K12 cyber school my 3rd grader was learning participles. That was too much, IMHO. I'm probably one of the few who think that LLTL provides just the right amount of grammar. Call me a grammar minimalist. ;)

 

Interesting thread!

 

Nan

[Alana in Canada]

Except that because English has no 3rd person singular neuter/common personal pronoun, the word "their" has come to be used for that function in informal speech (and writing).

 

Yes, I know. (Big sigh.) Has it really become common enough to be acceptable as standard usage? (Big, big sigh.) We do, in fact have a singular neuter pronoun, but it isn't personal. I can't bring myself to use "their," though. I always type out "he or she." Maybe that will change some day. But probably not.

 

I do understand that language changes with use: and if this were the extent of it, I think I'd be fine with it (it comes from noble intentions, after all) but I cringe, absolutely cringe when I hear my kids' friends say things like "I seen him go" and "I haven't done nothing, I swear."

 

It's one of the reasons we're homeschooling.

 

However, this is about the extent of my knowledge of formal grammar. I never studied it and I'm thrilled to be learning it along with the kids.

 

...if you don't know what a non-essential participial phrase or an introductory adverb clause is?

 

Um. That'd be me.:tongue_smilie: Edited March 29, 2009 by Alana in Canada

[katemary63]

Language is the tool we use to communication and using it is a skill that must be learned. When a person learns a skill, he can learn it well or he can be mediocre at it. Studying grammar helps him to understand his language on a very basic level. He is learning it well. We study grammar for the same reason they do drills in sports. To get the basics of our skill down so well that we don't have to THINK about doing it, we can just do it. A person who studies grammar will simply be able to use the tool of language better then one who does not just as an athlete who does his drills over and over again, will be better at his sport overall then someone who does not. (in general of course)

[plimsoll]

It is not only necessary for speaking and writing; it is even necessary for thinking. We generally think in words; without a large vocabulary and the grammar required to employ that vocabulary, we limit that which we are able to conceive.

[paulcindy]

I will say this, though. Just because grammar is important to learn, doesn't mean it has to be unduly difficult or take YEARS to do it. Grammar isn't a large body of knowledge; it doesn't take 6 to 10 years to cover it all. It should be taught once the child is ready to learn it and then just reinforced periodically instead of teaching it year after year.

 

Just my 2 cents. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:iagree:

 

Grammar year after year can be redundant.

[paulcindy]

I will say this, though. Just because grammar is important to learn, doesn't mean it has to be unduly difficult or take YEARS to do it. Grammar isn't a large body of knowledge; it doesn't take 6 to 10 years to cover it all. It should be taught once the child is ready to learn it and then just reinforced periodically instead of teaching it year after year.

 

Just my 2 cents. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:iagree:

 

Grammar year after year can be redundant.

[LaurieinCA]

... but to be honest, I aced my verbal SAT, graduated summa cum laude from UCLA with a degree in English (minor in Spanish), and haven't been exposed to half the grammar terms used in some of these homeschool grammar texts. Some of them seem to make what should be natural, for a strong reader and writer, into something overly complicated. In my opinion, there is such a thing as "grammar overkill."

[dalynnrmc]

I'm just glad that I'm not the only person who feels the irresistible pull to edit other people's posts in a thread about grammar. :p

 

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Cindy posted her comments about being redundant twice? :D

 

:lurk5:

[EthiopianFood]

To get the basics of our skill down so well that we don't have to THINK about doing it, we can just do it. A person who studies grammar will simply be able to use the tool of language better then one who does not just as an athlete who does his drills over and over again, will be better at his sport overall then someone who does not. (in general of course)

 

 

I agree, but not with what you actually meant. :D An athlete excels because he DOES his sport...not because he analyzes the theory or terminology behind it. Diagramming and memorizing terminology isn't "doing" writing. To use a previously given example, the child who says "I seen," uses that phrase because that is what they HEAR, and therefore what they PRACTICE. One would simply need to tell them what they SHOULD say, and through practice (and reminders), they could learn to speak correctly. Knowing why has nothing to do with it.

[EthiopianFood]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Cindy posted her comments about being redundant twice? :D

 

No! :lol:

[Laura Corin]

I think we all need to learn grammar in order to be able to communicate effectively. Children vary in how much grammar they need to be taught, however. Some children absorb the ability to write well through the reading of good books.

 

As far as foreign languages are concerned: I learned the grammar I needed for French in French class, for Latin in Latin class. Detailed knowledge of English grammar was not a prerequisite.

 

Laura

[Kelli in TN]

 

As far as foreign languages are concerned: I learned the grammar I needed for French in French class, for Latin in Latin class. Detailed knowledge of English grammar was not a prerequisite.

 

Laura

 

But wouldn't that depend on the teacher? The girl I mentioned above had no frame of reference and the prof assumed that these college students would all have a basic body of knowledge that included basic grammar. He was not going to stop and explain parts of speech to the one student who did not know the parts of speech.

 

If she had not had patient classmates who liked her enough to remediate her, she would have failed miserably.

 

I can see where you could learn the grammar as you go, but I think going into a foreign language class without even a rudimentary knowledge of grammar terms would be a handicap.

[Haiku]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Cindy posted her comments about being redundant twice? :D

 

 

 

I was going to post about it but you beat me to it! :)

 

Tara

[Mom22ns]

... but to be honest, I aced my verbal SAT, graduated summa cum laude from UCLA with a degree in English (minor in Spanish), and haven't been exposed to half the grammar terms used in some of these homeschool grammar texts. Some of them seem to make what should be natural, for a strong reader and writer, into something overly complicated. In my opinion, there is such a thing as "grammar overkill."

 

I don't have a degree in English, but I did very well on the verbal section of the SAT, and the language section of the ACT as well. I never made less than an A in any college writing class and I am a published author (just some journal stuff). I have a ps education and learned NO grammar at all.

 

All that to say, I think a lot of homeschool curriculums go overboard on grammar. The one place I did wish I had learned more was when I was taking foreign languages. My instructors always assumed knowledge of grammar and wanted you to be able to apply that to a new language - I couldn't. It was a disadvantage.

[EKS]

Aside from being a great brain workout, I find that it is important for my son to know grammar terms so that we can talk about his writing from a grammatical standpoint. It is also important (vastly important) for learning Latin. I know that some folks learn English grammar in the course of learning Latin, but that wouldn't work very well here.

[paulcindy]

:001_smile::001_smile::001_smile:

 

I was just hoping I spelled "redundant" properly...........LOL

[mo2]

Poor grammar is a personal pet peeve of mine. I have been known not to finish a book or article because of grammatical errors. I frequently point out grammatical errors to my hubby on signs, advertisements, packaging, etc. It just infuriates me. Why wouldn't they proofread before they publish?

[Laura Corin]

But wouldn't that depend on the teacher? The girl I mentioned above had no frame of reference and the prof assumed that these college students would all have a basic body of knowledge that included basic grammar.

 

As was (and is) customary in the UK, I started French at 11. The teacher had no expectation that we would have much in the way of English grammar, and so she taught what was needed as she went along.

 

Laura

[Kelli in TN]

As was (and is) customary in the UK, I started French at 11. The teacher had no expectation that we would have much in the way of English grammar, and so she taught what was needed as she went along.

 

Laura

 

Ah. That makes sense then. As you probably know, foreign language instruction is not a priority in the average U.S. public school system. It's a pity, really.

[Karen sn]

 

4. To understand a writer's intent (for example - a panda who eats, shoots, and leaves is quite a different animal than one who eats shoots and leave. :wink: )

 

:)

 

Reminds me of this:

 

Woman without her man is nothing.

 

Woman, without her, man is nothing.