Parenting Advice/Help Appreciated

[barnwife]

How would you help the following child?

Child is a pre-teen who cannot handle any correction at all. Child does not melt down when corrected, but always immediately stops whatever they are doing and leaves to go be alone. As an example, after a recent snowstorm, our kids and I were out shoveling. I noticed that Child was dumping snow where it was easy for him/where we'd have to shovel it again. If child has turned slightly as snow was dumped, snow could have been dumped where that wouldn't be necessary. Knowing said child can't handle any (and I mean any) correction, I said something to everyone shoveling. It was more or less, "Hey everybody, don't forget to pay attention to where you are dumping snow so we don't haven't to shovel it twice!" It was said with a smile. 

Child immediately put shovel down and walked away and did no more shoveling. 

Or, another HS related, one...child makes a mistake in math. Mistake is pointed out...and that will be the end of math (or whatever). It doesn't matter if it's presented in a  "hmmm...I come up with a different answer. Can we figure out why that is?" type way. Child cannot handle it.

FWIW, I specifically model me making mistakes and having to correct them in front of this child to make sure child sees that process/that it's not the end of the world.

Please help me figure out a way to help this child. DH and I are at a loss.

[SKL]

First, I'd try very hard to avoid any negative words, such as, in your first example, leave out the "so we don't have to ____."

Second, rather than point out "this is wrong / not done as I expect," consider just asking her to show you how she arrived at her answer.  Then adjust your next lesson / next example to go over whatever she seems to have missed.

Third, if you need to provide direction, try to provide it before the activity starts so there is more chance of things being done right the first time.  "Let's pile the snow up outside this line, so we are only shoveling each pile once."

Fourth, try sitting her down when she's in a good mood and just asking her about this.  "DD, sometimes I need to be able to give you information to help you correct the direction you're going.  I am struggling to find a way to communicate that you are able to hear positively.  Can you help me find a style that you will receive better?"

Reality is, this is just a tough age, and it's going to be difficult for several years.  It's the age.  Good luck.

Edited February 3 by SKL

[HomeAgain]

Because this is the chat board and there doesn't seem to be a diagnosis, I'd say I would not let the child quit.  They are needed there.  They don't get to go somewhere else.  The lesson that I would be focusing on is pushing through discomfort and dealing with it, and I'd explicitly tell that to the child, too.  If they quit, we all quit.  The job then becomes theirs to finish.  Deal with the snow, alone, but I watch.  Deal with the math, it's going to follow you to your bedroom along with me.  There's no escape from learning how to develop socially appropriate behavioral skills. I'd emphasize different ways to deal, but the 'punishment' would be the consequence of not being allowed to escape.

It sounds harsh, but it's a necessary part of life that needs to be dealt with.  The problem ceases to become to initial discomfort, but how it is reacted to - and that's where I'd pt my focus.

[Katy]

I’d pursue professional counseling for at least a few sessions to figure out the root. It might be hormones, depression, undiagnosed neurological thing like ADHD, or several other things. One thing I’ve heard from several of DD5’s therapists is that kids with high functioning autism like her often don’t get diagnosed until puberty because they suddenly cannot deal with conflicts they could earlier. 

[fairfarmhand]

Oof...Prickly preteens. Not fun. Has the DC always been this way? Is this the oldest child? My oldest could totally be like this at that age. It was HARD.

If this is a NT kid, no special diagnosis, I would deal with it head on. At least in our family, we do not dance around this kind of thing. We are gentle and loving, but my kids don't get hints. They need direct communication. 

"Dear child, I love you and you are a wonderful person. I have to confess that I have been failing you as a parent. I've screwed up in allowing you to run from any form of hard things. Some of good parenting is helping all my kids grow by correcting their mistakes. These are not personal attacks, but when I love someone, I can't let them continue making mistakes because sooner or later, the mistakes will cause more suffering than just correcting problems. One problem I've been avoiding is how you handle when you're corrected. I've made a huge mistake by allowing you to avoid these issues. It was unfair of me to allow you to run away when shoveling snow the other day. We needed your help and because you bailed, everyone else had more work to do. That wsa unfair of me and it was unfair of you."

Then I would dig deeper. What's going on in your head when you want to leave? Embarrassment? Anger? Confusion? I would start a dialogue about how to handle those big feelings. Also, I would allow a kid a momentary reprieve to pull themselves together but they have to come back to the task at hand within X minutes. ALso, they may need more direct communication on how to manage big feelings and what negative. self talk can do to us.

I also would share this quote:

“The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem”

― Captain Jack Sparrow

And reinforce constantly that nobody expects this child to be perfect. Everyone knows he/she will make mistakes, missteps, errors, or whatever. It's no big deal! Everyone does this. 

Edited February 3 by fairfarmhand

[City Mouse]

I work with a student who was like this but she has gotten better over the years. I would not avoid correction words.It sounds like you are very gentle with your words anyway. As far as school work goes I just let her get teary. I have the  attitude with her that it is fine to cry if she needs to, but I don’t make a big deal. I just had her the tissue box and wait it out. I also would remind her that she isn’t supposed to know everything at school already. If she knew it all, then I wouldn’t need to be her teacher. 
 

Making mistakes and taking correction is part of life. My thought is that avoiding that just because the child is uncomfortable isn’t going to help in the long run. It will just get worse if it isn’t dealt with now. 

[forty-two]

My youngest is similar - he found/finds it very difficult to handle getting something wrong (it does seem to be the fact of being wrong more than the correction pointing it out, though the two are highly related), and gets upset and tries to escape the situation (whether by leaving the room or hiding under the table or hiding under a blanket, etc).  He's always been this way, and in fact has been getting better each year - he reacts badly less often and the reactions he does have are shorter and less intense.  It doesn't really impact our ability to get school done anymore, whereas in early elementary dealing with it was our main school task.

I never had much luck avoiding triggering him - there wasn't much I could do to avoid the reaction other than avoiding the correction altogether, which I worked very hard to *not* allow myself to do.  I made sure I was calm and matter-of-fact about the correction - no big deal being wrong here, it's part of learning, we'll just try again - but while I assume/hope it has helped in the long run, it was of limited use in the short term.  I mean, if I injected negative emotion into the situation, he'd get even *more* upset; but nothing I did could *prevent* him from getting upset if it was going to happen.  Proactively doing all the toddler HALT stuff (making sure he wasn't hungry/thirsty/tired/etc.) helped - always easier to not lose it if you aren't also thirsty - and addressing it first after he melted down was helpful to a point. 

When a meltdown happened, generally I tried to deal with the big feelings first. He's a snugglebug, so in addition to the HALT stuff, I'd offer snuggles - nothing is so helpful in calming him down as snuggles.  It helped for me to go to him (instead of have him come to me), and even to gently tug him over or pick him up (as long as he wasn't resisting) instead of waiting for him to make the first move to come to me.  Once he was calmed down, I'd offer to do the dreaded corrections (or "too hard" work) with him sitting on my lap.  As he got older, sometimes the offer of sitting on my lap to work was enough to side-step a meltdown.  Now that he's older (though still a snugglebug), I'll offer a hug and he usually takes me up on it.  He also likes to work snugged into me on the couch when it's "hard".  ETA: In your case, do whatever calming down things help your dc, if snuggles aren't their thing.

IDK, I don't feel like I have any magic anything.  I just tried really hard to *not* avoid correcting him or asking him to do "hard things" because of his reactions.  And I tried to not let his meltdown allow him to avoid the thing, while also working to keep myself calm during the meltdown.  We weathered the meltdown, got him calmed down and ready to face the task, and then I cheerleaded him through the task.  Lather, rinse, repeat - for years and years and years.  But it has borne fruit.  It's really not the all-encompassing issue that it used to be anymore.

ETA: Anxiety is definitely at play with ds.  He comes by it naturally <sigh>; in general, I've found the more I allow the avoidance, the worse it gets.  For myself, every time I avoid the thing I'm anxious about, the stronger the urge to avoid the thing gets.  Every avoidance just increases the anxiety, making it harder to not avoid the next time.

Edited February 3 by forty-two

[maize]

Is this a kid with generally high anxiety? It sounds from your post like you perceive them to be emotionally fragile, so you are tiptoeing around in the way you talk to not upset them. Some kids really are that emotionally fragile; if that's the case it's probably worth looking into neuropsychologicsl evaluations to get a better grasp of what is going on.

You might research Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24099-rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-rsd

Growth mindset is what you want to cultivate, but it's a lot harder for some kids than for others. 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

 

Fourth, try sitting her down when she's in a good mood and just asking her about this.  "DD, sometimes I need to be able to give you information to help you correct the direction you're going.  I am struggling to find a way to communicate that you are able to hear positively.  Can you help me find a style that you will receive better?"

 

This would be my first step, I think. I'd ask them why they think they respond that way, what makes them so upset about simple corrections.

Edited February 3 by Pawz4me

[barnwife]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

Because this is the chat board and there doesn't seem to be a diagnosis, I'd say I would not let the child quit.  They are needed there.  They don't get to go somewhere else.  The lesson that I would be focusing on is pushing through discomfort and dealing with it, and I'd explicitly tell that to the child, too.  If they quit, we all quit.  The job then becomes theirs to finish.  Deal with the snow, alone, but I watch.  Deal with the math, it's going to follow you to your bedroom along with me.  There's no escape from learning how to develop socially appropriate behavioral skills. I'd emphasize different ways to deal, but the 'punishment' would be the consequence of not being allowed to escape.

It sounds harsh, but it's a necessary part of life that needs to be dealt with.  The problem ceases to become to initial discomfort, but how it is reacted to - and that's where I'd pt my focus.

There is no diagnosis, although I highly (highly!) suspect this child has dyslexia. I like the idea of if it's something we are all doing, we all quit and he has to finish.

@Katy This child has always, always been like this. So hormones are almost certainly not helping, it isn't a new problem. 

@fairfarmhand Thanks, that's a lot of good stuff to think about. I think I will print the quote out and put it on our fridge to talk about as a family.

@forty-two Yes, like you, I can't not correct him. I mean, he's got to know that his math/writing/whatever isn't right (for example). But correcting him and having him shut down isn't exactly working either. I always try to be calm and matter-of-fact. My kids hear a lot "it's okay to make mistakes. Mistakes are part of how we learn."

@maize I wouldn't say he's either highly anxious or emotionally fragile. It's more that I know that I am careful in how I approach correcting him, because him shutting down isn't helpful. 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, barnwife said:

 Child immediately put shovel down and walked away and did no more shoveling. 

Or, another HS related, one...child makes a mistake in math. Mistake is pointed out...and that will be the end of math (or whatever). It doesn't matter if it's presented in a  "hmmm...I come up with a different answer. Can we figure out why that is?" type way. Child cannot handle it.

For a typical child, I'd say don't give the option to quit shoveling or end the math lesson. If they were upset to the extent of not being able to finish in a meaningful way, they would know that the math lesson would be finished later that day, when they were calmer. 

What do you think would have happened if you called them back to shoveling? Did they just go about their day after waking away from the work?

This happened with both of my kids at one time or another. One of them struggled with being overwhelmed a lot, and they were always free to say they needed a break, and to leave the room/situation. It actually helped a ton to explicitly teach them that it was okay to leave, and what words to use (I need a break). But they knew that math lesson would be waiting to be done before more pleasant things such as snack, park, or screen time, and that the snow shoveling would be replaced with a different chore, also to be completed before the pleasant things.   

This wasn't a quick fix; they took a lot of breaks for a lot of years 😄 but most definitely it helped. 

If this type of solution ends in disaster, then I think expert advice is called for (evaluation or looking into counseling). 

[barnwife]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

For a typical child, I'd say don't give the option to quit shoveling or end the math lesson. If they were upset to the extent of not being able to finish in a meaningful way, they would know that the math lesson would be finished later that day, when they were calmer. 

What do you think would have happened if you called them back to shoveling? Did they just go about their day after waking away from the work?

 

I did try to call him back. He ignored me (which I dealt with later when he was not in shut-down mode). 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, barnwife said:

There is no diagnosis, although I highly (highly!) suspect this child has dyslexia.  

Why not get an evaluation and know for sure? It could be something else, or it could be dyslexia and something else. Information is power! 

Plus, many kids are relieved to get a diagnosis and know that there's a reason X is so hard for them. 

[katilac]

Just now, barnwife said:

I did try to call him back. He ignored me (which I dealt with later when he was not in shut-down mode). 

I'm not asking you to say how you dealt with it, but imo the consequence needs to be directly related. He left extra work for his siblings, so a natural consequence is that he has to do equivalent chores to lighten their burden in turn. This is both for his own good, and to try and prevent resentment from siblings. 

[barnwife]

8 minutes ago, katilac said:

I'm not asking you to say how you dealt with it, but imo the consequence needs to be directly related. He left extra work for his siblings, so a natural consequence is that he has to do equivalent chores to lighten their burden in turn. This is both for his own good, and to try and prevent resentment from siblings. 

Oh, he did. He got to clean bathrooms by himself.

[Jaybee]

38 minutes ago, forty-two said:

I just tried really hard to *not* avoid correcting him or asking him to do "hard things" because of his reactions.  And I tried to not let his meltdown allow him to avoid the thing, while also working to keep myself calm during the meltdown. 

41 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

Making mistakes and taking correction is part of life. My thought is that avoiding that just because the child is uncomfortable isn’t going to help in the long run. It will just get worse if it isn’t dealt with now. 

I don't really have any advice to add--you've gotten some good advice in previous posts. But I do want to affirm that it is a very good thing that you want to work on this with him. I know of a relationship that is struggling so much right now because of the inability of one of the people involved to ever be at fault or accept criticism. Every negative feeling, every negative thought, etc., is someone else's fault--not the fact that the person might need to learn how to give and take in relationships. It is very hard, and the relationship may end due to this inability. Learning to take correction is so important in work as well as personal relationships. I don't know of anyone who likes being corrected, but we need to learn how to if we want to grow as individuals.

I'd also second the person above who suggested pursuing a dyslexia evaluation, though it may not affect the correction issue a whole lot. Understanding that (for him as well as you) makes a difference. My (now adult) child with dyslexia was also very prickly, but in our case, the prickles were likely also caused by other issues. 

[kbutton]

22 hours ago, barnwife said:

 

@Katy

@maize I wouldn't say he's either highly anxious or emotionally fragile. It's more that I know that I am careful in how I approach correcting him, because him shutting down isn't helpful. 

 

The last paragraph—anxiety or at least some kind of difficulty that causes anxiety in the moment (communication, self-regulation, etc.) can indeed present this way.

My more straightforward meltdown kid was not this calm generally (but became more so later). He greatly actually appreciated being able to make amends in some way after he was feeling better. Having to do an extra chore sometimes accomplished that.

[matrips]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:46 PM, HomeAgain said:

Because this is the chat board and there doesn't seem to be a diagnosis, I'd say I would not let the child quit.  They are needed there.  They don't get to go somewhere else.  The lesson that I would be focusing on is pushing through discomfort and dealing with it, and I'd explicitly tell that to the child, too.  If they quit, we all quit.  The job then becomes theirs to finish.  Deal with the snow, alone, but I watch.  Deal with the math, it's going to follow you to your bedroom along with me.  There's no escape from learning how to develop socially appropriate behavioral skills. I'd emphasize different ways to deal, but the 'punishment' would be the consequence of not being allowed to escape.

It sounds harsh, but it's a necessary part of life that needs to be dealt with.  The problem ceases to become to initial discomfort, but how it is reacted to - and that's where I'd pt my focus.

I don’t view it as quitting, but as their way of handling their emotions. They recognize that if they stay, it won’t be good. I had one who really needed space, even if he caused the problem or hit somebody etc. He couldn’t take correction in the moment; it wasn’t a cop out and it wasn’t quitting. He really really couldn’t handle it. He did outgrow it but we also did therapy for retained reflexes. His fight or flight reflex was HIGH! The therapy was amazing- OT exercises from someone who specialized in infant reflexes. OT was around age 11 or 12 years- first time we heard of it.

[matrips]

I would help him by finding an OT who specializes in retained infant reflexes and have him evaluated. It was night and day difference after OT. It wasn’t cheap and it wasn’t easy, but wow, what a difference. I’d do it all over again in a heartbeat.