Podcast with one deeply offensive joke

[Eilonwy]

I was listening to an older episode of my previously favourite podcast when one of the hosts made an off the cuff joke that I found deeply offensive, then followed up with “…just kidding!”This is a podcast with a usually thoughtful presentation of a fairly non-controversial academic topic, and the comment seemed so out of character (or what I assumed was their character) and shocking that I repeated that section to make sure I heard it correctly. Yep…they really said that. 😧 And left it in after editing. 
 

If you were me, would you give them another chance…or never listen to them again? 

[Katy]

I don’t know. I guess it depends on how offensive the joke was… signed, someone who’s been trying to listen to a Joe Rogan podcast this afternoon about the moral implications of cobalt mining that involve slavery. Cobalt is used in all rechargeable batteries. 

[HomeAgain]

I think it would depend on my feeling on whether I was in the mood to listen to it or not.

My family watched the first episode of The Santa Clauses.  There was a comment in there that struck us wrong.  It wasn't offensive, it was just off.  But it soured the experience and we haven't wanted to watch another episode.  Maybe we'll try next year, but eh, no loss if we don't.

Given that, I think you have to just see how you feel about it later.

[Jenny in Florida]

I would drop the host(s) an email or comment letting them know I found the joke offensive and why. I would explain exactly what you said, that it seemed so out of character that you had to back up and listen again and that you found it upsetting enough to consider not listening to additional episodes. I would point them to recent examples of celebrities who have acknowledged such mistakes and edited them out of their material and encourage the host(s) here to do the same.

Then I would listen or not listen as the mood struck me. However, it does no one much good to just walk away in a huff without giving the host(s) an opportunity to re-think and make things right. 

[Eilonwy]

11 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I would drop the host(s) an email or comment letting them know I found the joke offensive and why.

Previously, I was wondering if this made sense given that the episode was a few years old.  But you’re right that quietly boycotting doesn’t really achieve anything.  

 

25 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I don’t know. I guess it depends on how offensive the joke was… signed, someone who’s been trying to listen to a Joe Rogan podcast this afternoon about the moral implications of cobalt mining that involve slavery. Cobalt is used in all rechargeable batteries. 

It was the surprise of hearing a Nazi slogan out of the blue, most of all, because it suddenly swung my view of the host 180 degrees.  I’m not sure that will easily return to neutral or better, even though the usual topic is interesting.  I would expect some off comments from Joe Rogan, and maybe could overlook them?  But actually, maybe I couldn’t overlook Nazi slogans from him either. 
 

ETA: more detail about the “joke”

Edited December 22, 2022 by Eilonwy

[Eilonwy]

18 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

But it soured the experience and we haven't wanted to watch another episode.  Maybe we'll try next year, but eh, no loss if we don't.

Given that, I think you have to just see how you feel about it later.

Yes, it probably will take some time to figure that out - souring is a good way to describe it.  

[Grace Hopper]

I’d write them an email and call it out. Then see how they respond - with apologies or with defense. 

[Katy]

I’d be offended by that too. Probably enough to stop following unless there was some further information. I guess I’d assume it was a dog whistle. You could also google the name and controversies 

[SquirrellyMama]

One joke wouldn't make me stop listening to a podcast. I feel like we are all guilty of slipping up and saying something that would offend someone.

If it were constant then yes, but one podcast...

Kelly

[Eilonwy]

39 minutes ago, Katy said:

I guess I’d assume it was a dog whistle. You could also google the name and controversies

I did google the name and came up with nothing.  I wouldn’t say it’s a very well known person, though. 

[Eilonwy]

17 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I feel like we are all guilty of slipping up and saying something that would offend someone.

Yes, we all say inappropriate things sometimes, but what gives me pause more about a podcast is that usually they’re edited and the editor had to choose to leave that in, so it seems more accepting of the idea being funny. 

[Eilonwy]

1 hour ago, Grace Hopper said:

Then see how they respond - with apologies or with defense. 

This would give a better feel for whether they really think it’s no big deal, or whether it was a mistake. I will try this.

[TravelingChris]

3 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

Previously, I was wondering if this made sense given that the episode was a few years old.  But you’re right that quietly boycotting doesn’t really achieve anything.  

 

It was the surprise of hearing a Nazi slogan out of the blue, most of all, because it suddenly swung my view of the host 180 degrees.  I’m not sure that will easily return to neutral or better, even though the usual topic is interesting.  I would expect some off comments from Joe Rogan, and maybe could overlook them?  But actually, maybe I couldn’t overlook Nazi slogans from him either. 
 

ETA: more detail about the “joke”

Which slogan?>  Cause due to my dh;s OCD type of imitating songs and phrases,etc, I am aware of some punk group that did California Uber Alles.  ANd if someone said it with Deutche, that would be the only phrase I can think of.  I know that something recently was being touted as a Nazi phrase and I was surprised but I can't even remember which one that was.  And I was surprised because it seemed like a normal phrase-one someone could make and not have anything to do with Nazis.  

[Spy Car]

10 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Which slogan?>  Cause due to my dh;s OCD type of imitating songs and phrases,etc, I am aware of some punk group that did California Uber Alles.  ANd if someone said it with Deutche, that would be the only phrase I can think of.  I know that something recently was being touted as a Nazi phrase and I was surprised but I can't even remember which one that was.  And I was surprised because it seemed like a normal phrase-one someone could make and not have anything to do with Nazis.  

That was the Dead Kennedys.

Bill

[Eilonwy]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Which slogan?>  Cause due to my dh;s OCD type of imitating songs and phrases,etc, I am aware of some punk group that did California Uber Alles.  ANd if someone said it with Deutche, that would be the only phrase I can think of.  I know that something recently was being touted as a Nazi phrase and I was surprised but I can't even remember which one that was.  And I was surprised because it seemed like a normal phrase-one someone could make and not have anything to do with Nazis. 

This was not one that I could see any adult stumble upon and not realize it. It named Hitler specifically. It wasn’t ambiguous. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt if it could have been a neutral phase. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Eilonwy

[Bambam]

I tend to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. 
I'd contact them somehow (email, letter) to let them know I had previously enjoyed their podcast, was surprised at this offensive 'joke', and ask for an explanation since it seemed out of character. 
We've all made mistakes. I have no clue how blatant this was nor how in your face offensive. 
Depending upon that, I might find an alternative podcast. I would include that in an email or letter too though. 

[TravelingChris]

39 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

This was not one that I could see any adult stumble upon and not realize it. It named Hitler specifically. It wasn’t ambiguous. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt if it could have been a neutral phase. 

Okay, thanks.  Because whatever the phrase was that was in the news a few months ago was very, very unclear to me to be a Nazi phrase.   I would never accidentally say I love Hitler or something.  But that other phrase was something.

Just like I like the song Back Off Boogaloo by Ringo Starr-- and Boogaloo has been taken over by some crazoids.  It all is so awful and confusing., especially when I am having migraines or bad brain fog.

[Jean in Newcastle]

A clearly offensive Nazi joke would lead me to believe that the person’s underlying sympathies lie in that direction or at least excuse such beliefs. I would absolutely not listen to someone with those beliefs even if he hides it 90% of the time. I would be hard put to think that this is the only person or only podcast worth listening to on a subject. 

[EKS]

57 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

This was not one that I could see any adult stumble upon and not realize it. It named Hitler specifically. It wasn’t ambiguous. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt if it could have been a neutral phase. 

Can we possibly just talk about what was actually said?  And the actual context? 

What was it?  “Heil Hitler”?  

[Pam in CT]

If the episode was several years old, it's possible that as a growing segment of the nation has moved to normalize Nazi imagery / JK dog whistling / dinner parties... the host  may have reconsidered how funny such JK jokes are.  When we know better, we do better.

So if I otherwise enjoyed the host / podcast, I think I'd take some version of this

4 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

I’d write them an email and call it out. Then see how they respond - with apologies or with defense. 

except rather than "calling it out," I'd underscore what you wrote in the OP, that the comment was so *uncharacteristic* that it confused and troubled you.

Appeal to the better angel.  And they may well come back with, that was then; much has happened since; we see now that it was inappropriate; now that we know better we'll do better.

 

{And if they come back with defensiveness or JK!! or 1A!!  or etc, well, that's data.}

[TravelingChris]

Pam, can you please tell me what JK and 1A are??? 

14 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

If the episode was several years old, it's possible that as a growing segment of the nation has moved to normalize Nazi imagery / JK dog whistling / dinner parties... the host  may have reconsidered how funny such JK jokes are.  When we know better, we do better.

So if I otherwise enjoyed the host / podcast, I think I'd take some version of this

except rather than "calling it out," I'd underscore what you wrote in the OP, that the comment was so *uncharacteristic* that it confused and troubled you.

Appeal to the better angel.  And they may well come back with, that was then; much has happened since; we see now that it was inappropriate; now that we know better we'll do better.

 

{And if they come back with defensiveness or JK!! or 1A!!  or etc, well, that's data.}

Can you tell me what JK! or1A is?  Haven't heard these terms. And don't want to google less I start getting Anti-semetic ads or something.  

[Pam in CT]

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Pam, can you please tell me what JK and 1A are??? 

Can you tell me what JK! or1A is?  Haven't heard these terms. And don't want to google less I start getting Anti-semetic ads or something.  

No no I wouldn't do that.

 

JK= Just kidding!!!      (so nothing I said counts)

1A= First Amendment!!     (so I can say whatever I please)

[Eilonwy]

10 hours ago, EKS said:

Can we possibly just talk about what was actually said?  And the actual context? 

What was it?  “Heil Hitler”?  

Yes, though I didn’t want to cross the line on this board and I actually don’t even want to type it.  Context was that there was an unrelated German word brought up by the podcast topic, as happens in some fields. There was nothing in the word itself or the specific topic that seemed connected to the Nazi era or ideology. They initially said they might not be pronouncing the word right, and then joked that it sounded more accurate if shouted, then called out H… H…..!…just kidding!  
 

 

[Eilonwy]

12 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

I'd underscore what you wrote in the OP, that the comment was so *uncharacteristic* that it confused and troubled you.

Appeal to the better angel.  And they may well come back with, that was then; much has happened since; we see now that it was inappropriate; now that we know better we'll do better.

{And if they come back with defensiveness or JK!! or 1A!!  or etc, well, that's data.}

This makes sense-  it could be that they’ve become more sensitive to these issues since then - at least I hope so!  And if it is still a “just kidding!” response, that would give me the impression that I really don’t want to listen to them.  

[SKL]

I think I'd try to find out whether the person has any background that would cause it to make more sense in context.

Also, if the podcast is years old, would everyone have known the saying was that offensive back then?  Or, could there be a reason why it might have made sense to joke about it in the context of the day?

I probably wouldn't stop listening over one comment without knowing the context ... unless it gave me such a bad taste that it tainted future podcasts for me.

[EKS]

16 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

Yes, though I didn’t want to cross the line on this board and I actually don’t even want to type it.  Context was that there was an unrelated German word brought up by the podcast topic, as happens in some fields. There was nothing in the word itself or the specific topic that seemed connected to the Nazi era or ideology. They initially said they might not be pronouncing the word right, and then joked that it sounded more accurate if shouted, then called out H… H…..!…just kidding!  

So, you mean it was offensive to Germans?  

[Eilonwy]

12 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

A clearly offensive Nazi joke would lead me to believe that the person’s underlying sympathies lie in that direction or at least excuse such beliefs. I would absolutely not listen to someone with those beliefs even if he hides it 90% of the time. I would be hard put to think that this is the only person or only podcast worth listening to on a subject. 

I am concerned there could be more.  Either in other older episodes or underlying/accepted but hidden.  And there are other podcasts on the same general topic, so I will start looking for a different one. 

[Eilonwy]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

So, you mean it was offensive to Germans?  

Well, it would be offensive to Germans, but it was also offensive to me.  I don’t take joking use of the phrase lightly. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Eilonwy said:

Well, it would be offensive to Germans, but it was also offensive to me.  I don’t take joking use of the phrase lightly. 

But the primary issue with the joke as you explained it is that it brought in an offensive stereotype of all Germans being Nazis. I personally wouldn’t be ok with that kind of stereotype (of any culture or ethnicity). By saying “just kidding “, he was showing that he was fully aware that it was an offensive ethnic stereotype but used it anyway for the laughs. 

[SKL]

When I was young, the sarcastic use of "H--- H-----" was meant to imply that whoever this was said to was acting too domineering.  It was kind of like saying "yes SIR!" to someone you don't need to address as sir.

In that context, it wasn't meant to insult Germans, Jews, or anyone else other than the speaker.

But obviously I don't know whether the podcast guy was using it that way or not.

I didn't know we Germans weren't allowed to be insulted for our German-ness.  I mean we aren't a disadvantaged minority.  I thought the current view was that non-minority people are fair game for jokes and insults based on their race/heritage.

[Eilonwy]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But the primary issue with the joke as you explained it is that it brought in an offensive stereotype of all Germans being Nazis.

I didn’t really take it that way - not to extend to German people, though I can see how it could be interpreted that way.  The way I heard it, the initial buildup was making fun of the sound of the German language, and the half-shouted word could have been Gesundheit, or sauerkraut, or Bier or whatever commonly known, probably goofy, German word to make a kind of stereotypical but not too serious joke.  But instead, the German phrase is one that’s shockingly inappropriate (to me) to use as a joke, which ultimately meant death to millions of people.   It’s not something you would ever say that way in my family.  

[Eilonwy]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

When I was young, the sarcastic use of "H--- H-----" was meant to imply that whoever this was said to was acting too domineering. 

This didn’t sound like how it was used in this case, but there’s a possibility that use earlier in life (estimated age maybe 55 or 60?) or that they heard others using it this way made them able to use it in a much more casual way that makes me really uncomfortable. 

[EKS]

12 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

This didn’t sound like how it was used in this case, but there’s a possibility that use earlier in life (estimated age maybe 55 or 60?) or that they heard others using it this way made them able to use it in a much more casual way that makes me really uncomfortable. 

Are you old enough to remember the soup Nazi on Seinfeld?  Similar use, and if the person is age 55-60, they are probably more used to the norms of that era.

[Eilonwy]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

Are you old enough to remember the soup Nazi on Seinfeld?  Similar use, and if the person is age 55-60, they are probably more used to the norms of that era.

Yes, I am…that is good context, thanks.  It’s also probably an issue I take more seriously than I used to.  
 

ETA: This still may have put me off this podcast/host even if I better understand where it might have come from. With things I’ve learned in the meantime between Seinfeld airing and now, no going back. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Eilonwy

[Pam in CT]

re changing cultural surround, Seinfeld's Soup Nazi, and Heil Hitler

1 hour ago, EKS said:

Are you old enough to remember the soup Nazi on Seinfeld?  Similar use, and if the person is age 55-60, they are probably more used to the norms of that era.

 

21 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

Yes, I am…that is good context, thanks.  It’s also probably an issue I take more seriously than I used to. 

Seinfeld's Soup Nazi is both good context, and also to my mind a concrete marker of *dfferences* in context.

 

Seinfeld (the man, and also the character) is very much Jewish; and there is, always, difference between in-group use of particular dancing-close-to-the-edge language vs out-group use of the same language.  It lands different, always.

And the Soup Nazi episode aired in 1995, a decidedly different cultural era.  We all were more innocent then; the American Jewish community felt a whole lot safer then; Nazi language and imagery felt historical  then. After ~6+ years characterized by multiple synagogue mass shootings; multiple well attended rallies with demonstrators openly carrying Nazi insignia, including Nazi flag bearers storming the Capitol to overturn electoral results they didn't like; and self-identifying Nazis dining with that same once and hopeful future POTUS: the climate is different. Nazism is now visibly part of the current  American landscape.  It lands different, now.

 

The notion that "Heil Hitler... JK!!" could ever have landed principally/ foremost as against folks of German ancestry is.. a bit alien to me, honestly.  But, OK, context, perhaps.

The context is different today than it was even a few years ago. 

And -- benefit of the doubt -- the podcast creators may very well appreciate that difference.  Ask, and maybe find out.

(I dunno that Seinfeld would do the Soup Nazi episode today either. Maybe, but equally, maybe not.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[And just for 100% clarity, none of this has anything to do with First Amendment or what anyone is "allowed" to say.  Anyone who wants to Heil Hitler, whether JK!!! or deadly serious; whether to impugn folks of German ancestry or to intimidate/ demoralize Jews or any other purpose, is "allowed" to use the words.

And anyone who wishes to stop listening to their podcast is "allowed" to do that as well.]

[TravelingChris]

Pam in CT, the above explanation is so good!    And I agree- context gas totally changed.

Also in another way,   some individuals were comparing everything and everyone yo Nazi's or Hitler all the time- particularly in political areas.  And I saw this behavior in all types of political POVs.  

So know we have people ejo automatically ignore such  comparisons and maybe there are jokes made about thid trend too.

It is all disturbing to me.  As a Polish ancestry person, Nazism is no joke. No,, we aren't Jewish but we have a last name that was generally given to Jewish people who converted.  My father's ancestors converted hundreds of years ago- as a kid, we visited a very old church that had been built by one of my ancestord in that side. My dad and hid parents escaped from Warsaw and went to USSR because the Siberian Labor Camp was a better choice than à train to a Nazi camp. 

Within the last 7 or 8 years, this incident happened to my son.  He was a pharmacy tech then. He was helping a customer who was there w his wife and it was taking z little while to get through to his doctor or insurance.  My son was always super polite to people.  State or Fed law requires full name on name tag the pharmacists and techs wear.  The man loudly proclaimed "It seems thst we need a little ethnic cleansing here".. His wife had a big smile and everyone else had their mouths wide open in horror.

And the rise of anti- semetism is horrific.  We have had here in the last few years, Nazi graffiti along w anti Jewish ( non Nazi),  Jewish cemetary markers smashed, etc.  And even more horrific have been all the killings.  No, I don't joke about Nazi's.

[Eilonwy]

Thank you so much, Pam, for your description of how Seinfeld and the changes in time fit in.  I remember that it did feel historical then, and from a North American perspective, it also felt over somewhere else.  
My partner is from Germany, and my extended family members take Nazism and the Holocaust very seriously, I think because they realize that extreme right ideas that target Jewish people can quickly spread throughout your country and in your neighborhood and even in your family (they are not Jewish).  

I’ve learned to take it more seriously from them, where it was always closer and not only historical. And also from the Stolperstein memorials on the sidewalks outside the doors throughout the city from where Jewish neighbours were deported to death camps. 
 

11 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

The notion that "Heil Hitler... JK!!" could ever have landed principally/ foremost as against folks of German ancestry is.. a bit alien to me, honestly.

Thanks also for clarifying this for me.  I was trying awkwardly to say that it wasn’t German people who I saw as the target of the HH..punchline, but couldn’t do it clearly, because of the nested, eye-roll-but-move-on, stereotypical joke about the German language.  The punchline, however, twisted it firmly to be against people who were and are Nazi/neo-Nazi targets.  This last part is what shocked and dismayed me, not the stereotype about Germans. 

This whole thread was amazingly helpful, thanks to all who posted and helped to work through this incident. 

I’m going to send the podcast people an email.  I hope I get positive info back, that they can edit this out, for example, but even if I get no reply it’ll help inform whether I continue to listen.

 

[EKS]

3 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

I’m going to send the podcast people an email.  I hope I get positive info back, that they can edit this out, for example, but even if I get no reply it’ll help inform whether I continue to listen.

I'd be interested to hear what their response is, if you decide you feel comfortable posting it.

[Eilonwy]

Just now, EKS said:

I'd be interested to hear what their response is, if you decide you feel comfortable posting it.

Yes, I plan to update if/when I hear something.  I’ll write it after Christmas. 

[Eilonwy]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:15 AM, EKS said:

I'd be interested to hear what their response is, if you decide you feel comfortable posting it.

I sent the podcast folks an email today (and this discussion helped so much in writing that and explaining the issue clearly, thank you all!).  
I got a response back within a few hours stating that they had edited out the joke, and with a very kind apology from one of the hosts.  Letting them know was definitely the right approach - it has made me willing to consider that the way that section of the podcast came across doesn’t reflect their general attitudes, and the editing prevents anyone else from stumbling upon it. 

[Lecka]

Wow, what a good outcome!  I’m glad it worked out this way 🙂

[Eos]

4 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

I sent the podcast folks an email today (and this discussion helped so much in writing that and explaining the issue clearly, thank you all!).  
I got a response back within a few hours stating that they had edited out the joke, and with a very kind apology from one of the hosts.  Letting them know was definitely the right approach - it has made me willing to consider that the way that section of the podcast came across doesn’t reflect their general attitudes, and the editing prevents anyone else from stumbling upon it. 

Nicely done.

[Pam in CT]

That is great, and illustrates why despite everything it really is worth it to try. 

It doesn't always go that well -- but sometimes it does.

[Eilonwy]

14 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

That is great, and illustrates why despite everything it really is worth it to try. 

It doesn't always go that well -- but sometimes it does.

Absolutely, there were a dozen other ways it could have gone, and nearly all of them not as well as this.  I was very pleasantly surprised. 

[Guest]

I’m so glad they were receptive to seeing “the joke” through fresh eyes. 
 

It reminds me of when Dolly Partner realized that “Dixie” is not as accepted as it once was and she changed her Dollywood attraction name. 🙂 She was so very humble and lovely about it.