Phonics for an 8yr old?

[AnneGG]

What would you recommend for an 8 year old that is not reading CVC words yet?
 

Child is a PS student. The child comes over to my house for about an hour every afternoon. The kids usually play but the mom asked me to help with HW. I realized DC cannot read, at all. I have been using Heggerty and playing phonics games. We tried Draw Write Now and I quickly realized that was a big mistake. I do not think DC can blend.
 

However DC is a bit limited with how long I can practice my stuff because there is a 20 words sight words list to memorize every week and a spelling test on the sight words. Mom really wants me to work on that. I really don’t want to tell her that’s not going to help because then it will be me vs the school. Ideas? 
 

 

[HomeAgain]

Not reading CVC?  I'd suggest LiPS or Barton.

You don't have the budget for that.  That said, I'd use 100 Easy Lessons.  There is a strong emphasis on blending and hearing words two different ways: slowly and then at full speed.  The "magic button" approach in the book is fabulous for those who need extra assistance in remembering that the image correlates to a sound and that there is an order.

 

[domestic_engineer]

Abecedarian (abcdrp.com)

[Malam]

2 hours ago, AnneGG said:

there is a 20 words sight words list to memorize every week and a spelling test on the sight words

Gee, I wonder why he can't read...

http://donpotter.net/pdf/reading_made_easy_with_blen.pdf

http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/blend_phonics_reader.pdf

https://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, AnneGG said:

What would you recommend for an 8 year old that is not reading CVC words yet?
 

Child is a PS student. The child comes over to my house for about an hour every afternoon. The kids usually play but the mom asked me to help with HW. I realized DC cannot read, at all. I have been using Heggerty and playing phonics games. We tried Draw Write Now and I quickly realized that was a big mistake. I do not think DC can blend.
 

However DC is a bit limited with how long I can practice my stuff because there is a 20 words sight words list to memorize every week and a spelling test on the sight words. Mom really wants me to work on that. I really don’t want to tell her that’s not going to help because then it will be me vs the school. Ideas?

Explode the Code? Simple but true phonics.

Presumably when you help this poor child with his sight-reading list you're giving him phonics instruction.

[Clarita]

I've been reading posts from a lady who is tutoring a child who is in the public school system. She doesn't agree with how public school is doing things and I think she has some good ideas on how to teach the fundamentals that the child needs, but also get the child through the school system. 

https://shamelessspelling.com/ (There is a paywall and I don't know how much information there is before the paywall in terms of getting a general idea of how to approach this issue.)  

[Servant4Christ]

R&S has a remedial phonics course

https://www.milestonebooks.com/item/1-1138--/?list=Rod_and_Staff_Phonics

Like HomeAgain already suggested, 100 EZ Lessons is also a great option. It clearly works for a friend of mine who has many more children than I do. I just couldn't quite get the knack of that program.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Brittany1116]

CLE learning to read is good at this. Might be worth getting a TM and teaching pertinent pages on a whiteboard.

[barnwife]

Well, I'd definitely spend at least 5 minutes every time going way, way back. That is, if the child can't currently blend, I'd work on doind that orally. ("I'm going to say some words slowly, like a sloth. Can you figure out what word it is and say it fast?") I'd ask questions like "if you change the /p/ sound in "pit" to /s/, what would the new word be?

Then I'd try whichever of the suggestions by pp appeals to you. 

[Servant4Christ]

2 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

CLE learning to read is good at this. Might be worth getting a TM and teaching pertinent pages on a whiteboard.

CLE's phonics program is longer than just the Learning to Read course. Just like many curriculum, CLE's full phonics course is covered over the span of both first and second grades. You would need CLE Learning to Read plus their grade 1 & 2 Language Arts. A remedial reading course condenses phonics instruction to make it easier to place a student where they need to be and catch them up faster. CLE might have a remedial course, though, so definitely worth looking into.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[lulalu]

I wouldn't jump to the thought of dyslexia yet. Not without first a six month period of solid phonics instruction. Schools in the states do an awful job at teaching reading. 

 

Phonics Pathways or Alpha phonics are two great programs, and both are one book teaching all you need. They are both easy to speed up or slow down. They don't require any worksheets (the child probably gets more than enough of that in school!) Add in some early phonemic awareness activities, and some memorizing of nursery rhymes and six months can make a huge jump. Spend 10 minutes on those things a day, and the rest of the time working on the homework. As you work on the homework point out when sight words follow a rule you have learned or will be soon learning. 

[ElizabethB]

How to teach blending, basically, start with easiest to blend sounds, 2 letters or 2 sounds at a time. an, in, me, no, etc. Long vowels may be easier, start with no, Mo, lo, me, ray, lay. The lego picture explanation may help the child understand what's going on with blending. More, explained here:

http://thephonicspage.org/On Reading/blendingwords.html

How and why to teach the sight words with phonics:

http://thephonicspage.org/On Reading/Resources/Sight Words by Sound1.pdf

Bookmark form, same as above just cuter, may be too cutesy or may like it more, hard to tell at 8, depends on the chid.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Reading/Resources/40LSightWordsBookmarks.pdf

I print the black and white version and let the child color them in with colored pencil.

I would also not assume anything, the schools do a terrible job, could just be ABT, ain't been taught. Go over the sounds across and down on my chart daily. Sounds are arranged for phonemic awareness, not alphabetically, use chart to look up sounds when working on sounding out and spelling sight words. Print out page 6, color in in colored pencil.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Reading/Resources/40LChartsCombined.pdf

Word Mastery starts with the easiest letters to blend. Free to print or Don Potter has an inexpensive book to order.

http://donpotter.net/education_pages/WordMastery.html

So, you can use my sight word document to figure out the best way to teach the sight words with phonics, go over their spelling and phonics while teaching them, group them by sound. They send them home alphabetically and across grade levels to hide how phonetic they really are. When you teach them, teach all the ones that follow the same pattern, eventually you'll be ahead. Can you get an advanced list for the whole year to show the mom and child that? Or just to say to the child--here, we have the same pattern and you just learned 2 of next weeks words with just a bit of extra work, we're saving time and effort in the long run!!

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by ElizabethB

[Ellie]

10 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

R&S has a remedial phonics course

I prefer this over R&S's "regular" learn-to-read instruction, which is heavy sight reading.

[AnneGG]

On 9/20/2022 at 6:05 PM, lulalu said:

They don't require any worksheets (the child probably gets more than enough of that in school!) Add in some early phonemic awareness activities, and some memorizing of nursery rhymes and six months can make a huge jump. Spend 10 minutes on those things a day, and the rest of the time working on the homework. As you work on the homework point out when sight words follow a rule you have learned or will be soon learning. 

Yes, this kid does not want anymore worksheets. Between math and LA there are 4 worksheets a night. 

This is basically what I’ve been doing, just with Heggerty as my base since I already own it. I felt like pointing out the phonics in the sight words wasn’t helping but maybe it just hasn’t been long enough. 
 

When I tried Draw Write Now (book 1, starting with the hen)  we went over pens, lens, tens, etc prior to trying to read the paragraph. It was a no go. I ended up just reading it to the child after seeing the struggle and letting them draw it and copy “hens.” 

[AnneGG]

20 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

How to teach blending, basically, start with easiest to blend sounds, 2 letters or 2 sounds at a time. an, in, me, no, etc. Long vowels may be easier, start with no, Mo, lo, me, ray, lay. The lego picture explanation may help the child understand what's going on with blending. More, explained here:

http://thephonicspage.org/On Reading/blendingwords.html

How and why to teach the sight words with phonics:

http://thephonicspage.org/On Reading/Resources/Sight Words by Sound1.pdf

Bookmark form, same as above just cuter, may be too cutesy or may like it more, hard to tell at 8, depends on the chid.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Reading/Resources/40LSightWordsBookmarks.pdf

I print the black and white version and let the child color them in with colored pencil.

I would also not assume anything, the schools do a terrible job, could just be ABT, ain't been taught. Go over the sounds across and down on my chart daily. Sounds are arranged for phonemic awareness, not alphabetically, use chart to look up sounds when working on sounding out and spelling sight words. Print out page 6, color in in colored pencil.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Reading/Resources/40LChartsCombined.pdf

Word Mastery starts with the easiest letters to blend. Free to print or Don Potter has an inexpensive book to order.

http://donpotter.net/education_pages/WordMastery.html

So, you can use my sight word document to figure out the best way to teach the sight words with phonics, go over their spelling and phonics while teaching them, group them by sound. They send them home alphabetically and across grade levels to hide how phonetic they really are. When you teach them, teach all the ones that follow the same pattern, eventually you'll be ahead. Can you get an advanced list for the whole year to show the mom and child that? Or just to say to the child--here, we have the same pattern and you just learned 2 of next weeks words with just a bit of extra work, we're saving time and effort in the long run!!

 

 

 Thank you! I will check this out. I do have some magnet tiles with letters on them that I’ve been meaning to bring out. I think this child would like snapping the letters together and we could practice blending. 
 

I definitely think it’s ABT. Covid shut downs impacted Kinder and 1st, I think last year they started out virtual and then mid year went in person. Poor kid has probably just fallen through the cracks. 

 

[AnneGG]

Thanks everyone! Lots of wonderful ideas, I’m appreciative. 
 

I’m trying not to over invest myself. I’m going to check out the Rod And Staff. We might still have some ETC books laying around. I feel like I have ton of phonics stuff but it just feels weird to sit down with somebody else’s kid and start a whole program. Lol 
 

I actually just ordered CLE LA2 for my 2nd grader! He’s a strong reader already but I’m glad to see it’s popular.

[seemesew]

100 easy lessons would be my first pick. It teaches blending really well and it is short to do. You don't have to do everything exactly like it says but it is a great base!

[Melissa in Australia]

does he have access to an iPad? idf so he could also practice at home

 either teach your monster to read or  explode the code online are great

[AnneGG]

Does anyone have experience with Rime Magic? @ElizabethB @HomeAgain 

[HomeAgain]

11 hours ago, AnneGG said:

Does anyone have experience with Rime Magic? @ElizabethB @HomeAgain 

I haven't had experience with it.

I don't want experience with it after watching the tutorial video.

I worry that this falls very hard into the 'balanced literacy' mindset.  The ideas she has like "some students need hardly any phonics instruction" and telling them what each of the rimes/endings say without them learning to break them down....it is going to be very difficult for a struggling child to learn to spell and grasp that they may see the rime without that same sound (i.e., it's in splAT, but not plATe.)

Her idea of "5 minutes a day in addition to any other program" tells me that her idea of success may not be attributed to her program at all.

TBH, I'm not a fan of the onset/rime approach as a whole.  If you wanted to go that way, Phonics Pathways does it better.

[HomeAgain]

@AnneGG, on the topic of sight words..

I started making things like this last year.  (I also have an optional coloring page for those who don't have a color printer).  It's a three step process for the kid:

1. Learn the rule for each sight word and note that there's a vowel in every syllable, read each sound.

2. Read with the sound cues.

3. Read as seen in print material.

This page is for a kindergartener whose teacher skipped straight to page 3. If your little extra is doing the same, it might be worth it to set up words in a similar way so that he's working on his word lists but also learning to read them as part of your time.

[Ellie]

On 9/21/2022 at 6:53 PM, AnneGG said:

I’m trying not to over invest myself. I’m going to check out the Rod And Staff. We might still have some ETC books laying around. I feel like I have ton of phonics stuff but it just feels weird to sit down with somebody else’s kid and start a whole program. Lol 
 

You said that he doesn't want any more worksheets. Well, besides the fact that the full reading/phonics program is heavy sight reading, it's also heavy worksheets.

[AnneGG]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:40 AM, HomeAgain said:

I haven't had experience with it.

I don't want experience with it after watching the tutorial video.

I worry that this falls very hard into the 'balanced literacy' mindset.  The ideas she has like "some students need hardly any phonics instruction" and telling them what each of the rimes/endings say without them learning to break them down....it is going to be very difficult for a struggling child to learn to spell and grasp that they may see the rime without that same sound (i.e., it's in splAT, but not plATe.)

Her idea of "5 minutes a day in addition to any other program" tells me that her idea of success may not be attributed to her program at all.

TBH, I'm not a fan of the onset/rime approach as a whole.  If you wanted to go that way, Phonics Pathways does it better.

Thank you! I saw it at the library and thought it might be an option. I’d never heard of a rine before. So that’s embarrassing. 

[AnneGG]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:56 AM, HomeAgain said:

@AnneGG, on the topic of sight words..

I started making things like this last year.  (I also have an optional coloring page for those who don't have a color printer).  It's a three step process for the kid:

1. Learn the rule for each sight word and note that there's a vowel in every syllable, read each sound.

2. Read with the sound cues.

3. Read as seen in print material.

This page is for a kindergartener whose teacher skipped straight to page 3. If your little extra is doing the same, it might be worth it to set up words in a similar way so that he's working on his word lists but also learning to read them as part of your time.

These are wonderful! He’s coming over shortly and I will try them out and report back. His teacher handed mom a huge stack of sight words readers to work on at home. She passed them to me and I had to work SO HARD to keep my mouth shut. They are terrible. We did buddy read a bit of Frog & Toad yesterday. He was getting really into it. He said might actually read a book that was funny like that. 🥳

[KSera]

17 minutes ago, AnneGG said:

He said might actually read a book that was funny like that.

Have you tried him with Elephant and Piggie? My kids still enjoyed them at that age and they were perfect for my dyslexic kiddo, with there being so few words on each page. They are still my favorite easy reader books, because they are truly enjoyable to read. I’m not sure if they’re the right reading level, but if he’s doing frog and toad, they seem likely appropriate. They are definitely not controlled phonics, though, so they might have to wait a little while.

[AnneGG]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

Have you tried him with Elephant and Piggie? My kids still enjoyed them at that age and they were perfect for my dyslexic kiddo, with there being so few words on each page. They are still my favorite easy reader books, because they are truly enjoyable to read. I’m not sure if they’re the right reading level, but if he’s doing frog and toad, they seem likely appropriate. They are definitely not controlled phonics, though, so they might have to wait a little while.

We haven’t, but that’s a great idea. Thank you! Right now, I read most of it and just point out words I know he can read.
 

We didn’t end up working on anything tonight. My 7 and 8 year old wanted to have a cookie making contest with him. I’ll be finding sprinkles for weeks. 🤪

[seemesew]

So I recently found about about this program and I think it would be an excellent option! The lady who created it starts with her 3 year old and only does 1 page per day but I think you could go faster for this boy and this is all she uses. Its called Elemental phonics and There are 3 levels and its fairly easy to use and inexpensive! Her youtube is Jady Alveraz and she explains how to use it more there but its fairly simple. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=elemental+phonics+level+1&crid=2M9AJH3TZ8T2V&sprefix=elemental+phonics%2Caps%2C186&linkCode=ll2&tag=shantelshomes-20&linkId=fcf8a64b88ef8ef24461db793a1f83d8&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

[ktgrok]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:25 AM, domestic_engineer said:

Abecedarian (abcdrp.com)

Agreed.

Or, for more "fun" approach, Nessy reading and spelling might be good, or heck, even working through the free Duolingo ABC app. (it's REALLy good, but for younger kids. But fun)