Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness

[klmama]

Well.  Where to start?  I chose not to see it in the theatre, as everyone talked of how dark it was.  Better to watch on a small screen I could turn off,  if needed.  I did  brush up on other shows in preparation for this, though, and I was not expecting to be so nonplussed. I liked the worst of the previous shows better than this one.  The horror approach totally turned me off and  left me wishing I'd done the laundry and scrubbed the tub instead.  What did you think of it?  

[Slache]

Haven't seen it yet. What do I need to watch first? I've seen every movie through Endgame, Tom Holland's Spider man trilogy and most TV shows including WandaVision and Loki. By the looks of the trailer it seems What If comes in to play, but we haven't all seen that one.

[Carrie12345]

Before watching last night, I was already very much not a fan of the multiverse concept, so I knew it was not going to be my favorite.  I also hate Wanda’s story (it breaks my heart), so another strike.
Hated the movie’s pacing (or lack of), the extra gore, the music choices, the very limited character development, the underwhelming use of John Krazinski, and so much more.

We are big Marvel fans over here, so it was required. But I didn’t like it one bit. Horror directors should stay in their lane.

[TexasProud]

Yeah, my oldest told me to skip it that I wouldn't like it at all. My kids can tell me if I need to know something in a future movie.  Likewise, I watched the first episode of Moon Knight and found it profoundly disturbing.  I haven't watched anymore of that one.  I like superheroes saving the world not the darker path they seem to be taking. 

[Carrie12345]

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, my oldest told me to skip it that I wouldn't like it at all. My kids can tell me if I need to know something in a future movie.  Likewise, I watched the first episode of Moon Knight and found it profoundly disturbing.  I haven't watched anymore of that one.  I like superheroes saving the world not the darker path they seem to be taking. 

We actually LOVED Moon Knight, mostly for the very fact that we had no idea what in the world was going on, lol. IMO, it gets better after the first episode because you start to have more clues. Never enough to actually figure it out, but enough that I wanted to.
ETA: sort of like Wanda Vision.  But with more violence.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Carrie12345

[Slache]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Likewise, I watched the first episode of Moon Knight and found it profoundly disturbing.

I watched the first episode of that and could barely handle it. My husband has the same sleeping disorder and it really bothered us both. The phasing in and out, losing control, not remembering. We go through that probably 5 days a week and it's not fun. We didn't continue the series.

[Carrie12345]

Just now, Slache said:

I watched the first episode of that and could barely handle it. My husband has the same sleeping disorder and it really bothered us both. The phasing in and out, losing control, not remembering. We go through that probably 5 days a week and it's not fun. We didn't continue the series.

Yeah, that would definitely disqualify any enjoyment from that story!!! I’m sorry you had that experience!

[Garga]

I saw Dr Strange at the drive-in theater with my son. By about 2/3 of the way through, we were openly mocking the movie. Thankfully, no one else could hear us in our car.

I didn’t like it at all, but I also didn’t expect to. I only went to see Dr. Strange because we wanted to see the 2nd movie (drive in is a 2-fer.) (The second movie was Morbius which most people didn’t like, but my son and I found it to be much better than the stink-fest that was Dr. Strange.)

Once a character has unlimited power to change reality, the movie no longer has anything to do with story and is all about CGI. I find movies like that boring. I haven’t enjoyed most of the recent marvel movies because it’s all just a CGI-fest. 

At the point when that single harp note flew through the air and did…I don’t even know what…what were those stupid notes even doing?….I rolled my eyes so hard they fell out of my head and I had to dust the lint off and put them back in. I was like, “Wait…is that harp going to produce a note and it’ll be all poignant or something??” and it was and my son burst out laughing.

I could go on a rant about it, but I’ve done my best to drive everything about it from my memory because it was a huge waste of time. But it was just dumb. Nothing made much sense if you thought about it for more than 2 seconds. 

I hear they did a bad job of editing and that’s probably why it seemed so very bad to me. It was a hot mess of a movie.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Garga

[Idalou]

25 minutes ago, Garga said:

I saw Dr Strange at the drive-in theater with my son. By about 2/3 of the way through, we were openly mocking the movie. Thankfully, no one else could hear us in our car.

I didn’t like it at all, but I also didn’t expect to. I only went to see Dr. Strange because we wanted to see the 2nd movie (drive in is a 2-fer.) (The second movie was Morbius which most people didn’t like, but my son and I found it to be much better than the stink-fest that was Dr. Strange.)

Once a character has unlimited power to change reality, the movie no longer has anything to do with story and is all about CGI. I find movies like that boring. I haven’t enjoyed most of the recent marvel movies because it’s all just a CGI-fest. 

At the point when that single harp note flew through the air and did…I don’t even know what…what were those stupid notes even doing?….I rolled my eyes so hard they fell out of my head and I had to dust the lint off and put them back in. I was like, “Wait…is that harp going to produce a note and it’ll be all poignant or something??” and it was and my son burst out laughing.

I could go on a rant about it, but I’ve done my best to drive everything about it from my memory because it was a huge waste of time. But it was just dumb. Nothing made much sense if you thought about it for more than 2 seconds. 

I hear they did a bad job of editing and that’s probably why it seemed so very bad to me. It was a hot mess of a movie.

Wow. I finally found someone who liked Morbius! It's Morbin time! Didn't it cost 75 mil to make and it made 74 mil in the US? The best part of that film is just following all the memes and reading funny comments about how bad its stunk.

[alisoncooks]

We’re big marvel fans and we saw it opening weekend in the theater. It was…different. As my daughter said at the end: “That’s the weirdest movie I’ve ever seen.” 😂 

It was also gory in a different way from other Marvel movies. I advised my mom and brother (also marvel fans) to save their money and wait for it on Disney+. 

(I’m excited for Thor, though. I wasn’t at first because of Stupid Jane — that’s what my girls and I call her. But the trailers have my interest piqued and I LOVE Ragnarok and this has similar vibes.)

[alisoncooks]

Also, we tend to rewatch Marvel movies when we’re bored or for background noise. My kids both stated that they don’t think MoM is a rewatch kind of movie…

[Faith-manor]

Most people don't like it. The public kind of expects super hero movies to be mostly the good guy wins in a not particularly dark romp with some lighthearted comic moments  and have some version of a feel good ending or some way to resolve the story in the future in a feel good way so like End Game which was sad yet hopeful. But, that isn't all Marvel plot arcs, and most of the viewers have not read or delved into Marvel, and its story lines. This was not unexpected at all. It is the story line of Wanda. The multiverse is a big component of Marvel comics, and long, evolved, dark story lines are the norm. They are so very different from DC comics. They are bizarrely complicated and very much of the horror genre blended with fantasy/action.

It helps viewers if they watched the WandaVision series on Disney because it really laid the groundwork for this. As for the horror aspect, I didn't think it was that overdone. The themes were embedded into it...Strange coming to grips with sacrificing Tony Stark, "It was the only way", and history repeating itself again now Chavez, choices have consequences, what happens when someone with very dark powers compared to all the other heroes is driven mad with grief and sorrow. I mean with her powers, going bananas with grief was never going to end well IF her character was going to continue beyond WandaVision and End Game.

Interestingly, the concept of the multiverse has been raised in other franchises but not received quite so much hate. Star Trek the series comes to mind with their multiverse which contained an evil alter ego of each of the main characters, very dark, very violent, and very much pushing the boundaries for the time. I think the movie fan base of Marvel is one that prefers the traditional storylines of the comic series, however, since that story series has been ended at End Game, if there are going to be more Marvel movies, there will be more strange and disjointed ones like this because that is the Marvel material left to work with. Don't start me about the fan base, the comic reading guru base for Marvel. These people take themselves way too seriously a lot of the time, and there will never be a movie made based on anything Marvel has ever done that wipl meet even a twinge, a molecule of satisfaction. So I expect their hate on this movie to be extreme even though they should be expecting that to take plot arc of such immense complication and bizarre involvement and make a 2 hour film of it can never, ever be well done. Same with so many, Lord of the Rings, Hobbit, Harry Potter to name a few.

From what I can see of actor contracts, it does not look like they are going to take on the similar plot for Cap and Black Widow. Like Wanda and Vision who have to the twin boys who are kidnapped during the time between Civil War and Infinity War - the arc and timeline that is the precursor to the plot arc of Dr. Strange 2 - Cap and Nat fall in love and have a child, James Rogers. There is an entire comic book series about this. Both actors seem to have permanently moved on from the franchise so my guess is Disney will ignore this series.

It was dark and not that fun romp that the other Marvel movies tend to be so I get the hate. However, to be honest I didn't think it was a mess per se since it was representing a Marvel plotline sort of quasi decently with the 2 hrs and whatever minutes it had to do something crazy involved sort of like trying to condense the entire Lord of the Rings first book into one movie. It was definitely not what folks expected.

The Marvel movie that I thought was an atrocious mess was Black Widow's movie. Good grief! It was ridiculously awful. 

I didn't hate Strange 2. I expected it, also knowing it wasn't something I was going to watch twice. I also think that if Marvel movies are going to continue to be made, it will be more of the same because the remaining plot arcs are very dark, very bizarre, and very much crossing into horror genre.

[Farrar]

I agree with most of your sentiments, @Faith-manor. It wasn't amazing, it subverted expectations so that's why everyone hates it, but I didn't think it was as terrible as everyone else seems to think.

I actually liked some aspects of it - I enjoy multiverse stories and time travel. They're two of my favorite tropes. I thought the multiverse worked well in No Way Home and Loki. So I was primed to actually like it. But I felt like it was really flawed. I didn't think America was well developed as a character, which was disappointing. She was never more than an object everyone wanted.

It also felt to me like it didn't know what it wanted to be. Add one part fan service moments, one part Marvel romp, and one part classic Sam Raimi Evil Dead and you get... whatever the heck this was. It just didn't quite come together. Fan service is fun in the moment, but never holds up and in this case it backfired because you can't hold a film together with some "whoa, it's that guy from the other thing!" moments. I like Sam Raimi's schtick, but it didn't quite fit the vibe of Dr. Strange for me.

I'm also bothered by Wanda's whole character arc. This messed with any character growth in Wandavision. But then I guess restored it? If she was that unhinged would she really have backed down at all? It just felt contrived on some level. All stories are contrived, but I lost my buy in for Wanda partway into this.

I thought it would have been better really dashing off into other universes a bit more. Instead, other than a montage and some references, we basically get... our universe (aka Marvel 616) and... the universe where all food is balls and we have some familiar superhero faces on a council? Given some of the things America references, that's honestly pretty boring.

[Carrie12345]

51 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Interestingly, the concept of the multiverse has been raised in other franchises but not received quite so much hate. Star Trek the series comes to mind with their multiverse which contained an evil alter ego of each of the main characters, very dark, very violent, and very much pushing the boundaries for the time. I think the movie fan base of Marvel is one that prefers the traditional storylines of the comic series, however, since that story series has been ended at End Game, if there are going to be more Marvel movies, there will be more strange and disjointed ones like this because that is the Marvel material left to work with. Don't start me about the fan base, the comic reading guru base for Marvel. These people take themselves way too seriously a lot of the time, and there will never be a movie made based on anything Marvel has ever done that wipl meet even a twinge, a molecule of satisfaction. So I expect their hate on this movie to be extreme even though they should be expecting that to take plot arc of such immense complication and bizarre involvement and make a 2 hour film of it can never, ever be well done. Same with so many, Lord of the Rings, Hobbit, Harry Potter to name a few.

That’s kind of funny to me, because dh and ds11 are the comic book fans in our house, and they liked the movie better than I did. Which isn’t saying much, because of how much I hated it, lol. But they weren’t disappointed.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Huge marvel fans here. We didn't like it at all. And I hated to not like it because Scarlet Witch is one of our favorite characters but this movie was so over the top weird and the story line wasn't even great. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

My DS has read the comics and he says that they are following the comics with Scarlet Witch. She constantly floats back and forth between bad and good and doesn't really find a stable point from what I have heard. 

[Farrar]

If you enjoy the Pitch Meeting schtick, then I thought this one was pretty dead on.

 

[KrissiK]

We saw it. Hated it. Personally, the Dr. Strange series is not my favorite of Marvel anyways, but I particularly didn’t like this one. 

[alisoncooks]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

It also felt to me like it didn't know what it wanted to be. Add one part fan service moments, one part Marvel romp, and one part classic Sam Raimi Evil Dead and you get... whatever the heck this was. It just didn't quite come together. Fan service is fun in the moment, but never holds up and in this case it backfired because you can't hold a film together with some "whoa, it's that guy from the other thing!" moments. I like Sam Raimi's schtick, but it didn't quite fit the vibe of Dr. Strange for me.

I'm also bothered by Wanda's whole character arc. This messed with any character growth in Wandavision. But then I guess restored it? If she was that unhinged would she really have backed down at all? It just felt contrived on some level. All stories are contrived, but I lost my buy in for Wanda partway into this.

These reasons are why it fell flat for us. We enjoyed the multiverse aspect — we’ve watched all the Disney+ series (and my kids love Spider-Man Into the Multiverse). 

And we were familiar with Scarlet Witch’s good/bad flipping in the comics…but coming on the heels of WandaVision, it just felt like a massive reset.  Like…the movie just didn’t seem to follow that series well. (I get it, the Darkhold corrupts, etc, but still…)

[Grace Hopper]

Everything Everywhere All At Once is an infinitely better multiverse story. 
 

I think people (in general, not the deep MCU diehards) are getting tired of having to *think so hard* about parallel universes and timelines and what-ifs. I read an article somewhere that suggested it was time to stop it with the multiverse junk. I’m hoping the new Thor movie will focus more on story than sci-fi minutiae. 
 

I love Dr Strange, but not the occult. I figured with the way Wandavision ended, and the missing book at the end of the last flick with DS, that’s where things would have to go. So I wasn’t surprised to see it was a plot device. Just not thrilled it was The Major plot device. 
 

Just give me some more Paul Rudd Antman and I’ll forgive them this DS disappointment. 😂

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I agree with most of your sentiments, @Faith-manor. It wasn't amazing, it subverted expectations so that's why everyone hates it, but I didn't think it was as terrible as everyone else seems to think.

I actually liked some aspects of it - I enjoy multiverse stories and time travel. They're two of my favorite tropes. I thought the multiverse worked well in No Way Home and Loki. So I was primed to actually like it. But I felt like it was really flawed. I didn't think America was well developed as a character, which was disappointing. She was never more than an object everyone wanted.

It also felt to me like it didn't know what it wanted to be. Add one part fan service moments, one part Marvel romp, and one part classic Sam Raimi Evil Dead and you get... whatever the heck this was. It just didn't quite come together. Fan service is fun in the moment, but never holds up and in this case it backfired because you can't hold a film together with some "whoa, it's that guy from the other thing!" moments. I like Sam Raimi's schtick, but it didn't quite fit the vibe of Dr. Strange for me.

I'm also bothered by Wanda's whole character arc. This messed with any character growth in Wandavision. But then I guess restored it? If she was that unhinged would she really have backed down at all? It just felt contrived on some level. All stories are contrived, but I lost my buy in for Wanda partway into this.

I thought it would have been better really dashing off into other universes a bit more. Instead, other than a montage and some references, we basically get... our universe (aka Marvel 616) and... the universe where all food is balls and we have some familiar superhero faces on a council? Given some of the things America references, that's honestly pretty boring.

To be honest the entire Marvel franchise as movies have been just awful when it comes to writing for strong, female characters. Always. The "who's the monster" moment for Black Widow. Seriously men, women aren't monsters and should not be seen as "less than" when they do not reproduce. Sigh. Then the whole HAS TO HAVE A ROMANCE so first Hulk, then make it out like maybe Cap, and then, well " we can't think of anything to do with her so we'll just kill her off" and totally screw up a movie devoted to her because we cannot possibly imagine writing well for females except that rare movie like, "Fried Green Tomatoes" or "Steel Magnolias" which means drama/comedies but never sci fi, fantasy, action. Now, they have a very strong and unusual story arc for Wanda/Scarlett Witch, and well, let's make a messy, not very good script for her movie. Which really, even though this was the second Dr. Strange movie, it wad way more about Wanda than anything. And then hey, let's have the powerful kid bea female, and hell, we such misogynistic pricks we will screw that up too because hey, aren't females always just objects, cue the Pepper Potts thing but when criticized, we gave her a suit and let her fly around once in a while.

I really hope they do not take on Morgan Stark. They will butcher it. Still, I didn't think this was the worst writing at all for a female character, in terms of Wanda just because at least they had a strong story arc from the comics and tried to do something with it.

Please Disney, just don't take on Morgan, Billy, Tommy, or James. You will make a mess of it. We know you will. 

Disney had been messing up across the board though. Don't talk to me about all the remakes and life actions. Sigh. In comparison, this movie was practically genius! 😉

[Farrar]

Agreed on the women in Marvel thing. I felt like the TV shows have been starting to buck the trend a little. First Wanda in Wandavision. Then I thought they nailed Kate Bishop. I thought Sylvie was great. And I'm loving Kamala Khan, where I feel like they're hitting a lot of the right notes - it's got the spirit of the comics, even if the plot is different. I mean, I can make some criticisms of those, but it felt like they were improving on a pretty poor track record to me.

But... that Black Widow movie. OMG. No. And then Wanda in the Dr. Strange movie wasn't anywhere near as satisfying. And they throw in things like Captain Carter and America to make you think they gave us strong women... when they didn't. Strong female characters are more well-rounded, more human, more developed, have networks of other women...

[Lisa]

I really like the Marvel movies including the first Dr Strange. I wanted to see the second one, however two of my son's saw it and didn't like it. One of them said I wouldn't like it either. I looked up the review on Plugged-In and decided not to see it. So disappointing, Disney took Marvel to the horror level.

[bookbard]

Agree that the movie was very disappointing, particularly in the way it portrayed women. It was a massive step backwards. And I loathe the fact that the movies seem to have to follow a comic plotline written years ago with probably no insight into institutionalised sexism. Drives me nuts. I feel like I invested in Wanda in the miniseries, and it was thrown in my face.

Loved Moon Knight, on the other hand. It is definitely a grown up show. It deals with childhood abuse. It is complicated. But it felt like adults wrote it, with thought about how women are portrayed and with sensitivity towards the Egyptian culture. I'm also enjoying Ms Marvel for the same reason. I'm not from the Middle East, but I've spent a lot of time there and it really soothes my heart, watching the culture being celebrated.

[Farrar]

I seem to be the only one who didn't like Moon Knight. I thought the first one was interesting. Second episode was uneven. By the third I was just checked out. It was... a mess. The tone was all over the place. The plot was confusing. I keep seeing people saying they liked it, but. Ugh.

I would be interested if they brought back Daredevil to finish out the originally planned 5 series run.

I don't feel like Disney has "ruined" Marvel. I feel like some aspects of Marvel are good and fun and engaging. Others are not. It's a massive franchise. There have always been weak films and series (Um, Iron Fist? Ant Man and the Wasp? Iron Man 2? Hulk?) amidst good ones. Just like Dr. Strange and Black Widow came amidst a couple amazing quality series like Loki and Wandavision and a really good film in No Way Home (which yeah, Sony, but still MCU).

[alisoncooks]

We didn’t love Moon Knight…but we quite like Black Widow. 😂😂

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

There have always been weak films and series (Um, Iron Fist? Ant Man and the Wasp? Iron Man 2? Hulk?) amidst good ones

Yes, I agree with this. First two Thor movies were pretty sad - third was awesome. I know nothing about how movies are made, but obviously each one will be a mix of writers, director, editor etc. So sometimes you'll get a good thing and sometimes you won't. And also depends on who you are - we liked the Ant Man movies as we could watch them as a family and weren't expecting much. Fun comedy. On the other hand, I haven't liked any of the Spiderman movies as they're a bit teenagery for me. 

I'm not sure what I thought about Black Widow. I watched it by myself as a kind of preview to see whether it was suitable for my kids - nope nope. But watching it in bits with the sound down so I wasn't interrupted prob wasn't the best way to take it in. 

 

[MagistraKennedy]

I was so confused by the whole dang thing. Of course, I wasn't a big fan of the first Dr Strange movie, so there's that. 

[JustEm]

We just watched it last night and as a huge Sam Raimi fan I loved it and I didn't even know he directed it until zombie Strange appeared. I literally said, 'Bruce Campbell is an odd cameo.' and later, 'oh now I get the cameo, how didn't you(dh) say anything when I made that weird cameo comment.' he only laughed in response.

I loved how dark it was as that is fitting for Scarlett Witch. And how they introduced mutants without them being a significant part of the movie.

It did feel a little disjointed and was certainly different from other Marvel movies but still fit the Marvel universe in relation to the comics

Edited June 26, 2022 by hjffkj

[Slache]

I finally watched it and hated it. I love Dr. Strange, but the story was awful and I'll never forgive them for what they did to Wanda. I loved that he fixed his watch and I absolutely loved the girl. I'll watch her in anything. I thought the mutants and fantastic 4 tie ins were dumb. The dead doctor was dumb. The demon wings were dumb. Wanda killing children was dumb. The ending was dumb. Her climbing through the reflection was dumb. Everything was dumb.

[bookbard]

9 minutes ago, Slache said:

I finally watched it and hated it. I love Dr. Strange, but the story was awful and I'll never forgive them for what they did to Wanda. I loved that he fixed his watch and I absolutely loved the girl. I'll watch her in anything. I thought the mutants and fantastic 4 tie ins were dumb. The dead doctor was dumb. The demon wings were dumb. Wanda killing children was dumb. The ending was dumb. Her climbing through the reflection was dumb. Everything was dumb.

I totally agree, btw. They wiped out so many people in this thing, it was awful. 

[Robin M]

It was a great Halloween type film and knew going in it had horror elements. I loved it and thought the scene fighting with the musical notes was really creative.  The only Marvel movie I haven't liked is The Eternals.  Now that one had really horrible acting. 

[Slache]

10 minutes ago, Robin M said:

It was a great Halloween type film and knew going in it had horror elements. I loved it and thought the scene fighting with the musical notes was really creative.  The only Marvel movie I haven't liked is The Eternals.  Now that one had really horrible acting. 

And a s*x scene for no reason or warning in a film series children watch, and it meant Thanos was right but he never told anyone his real reasoning. And his brother was white, which was weird.

[Robin M]

9 minutes ago, Slache said:

And a s*x scene for no reason or warning in a film series children watch, and it meant Thanos was right but he never told anyone his real reasoning. And his brother was white, which was weird.

I know. None of The Eternals  made sense. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Robin M

[Robin M]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:02 AM, Slache said:

Haven't seen it yet. What do I need to watch first? I've seen every movie through Endgame, Tom Holland's Spider man trilogy and most TV shows including WandaVision and Loki. By the looks of the trailer it seems What If comes in to play, but we haven't all seen that one.

If you've seen Wanda Vision and No Way Home, I think those will be enough set up for it.