J-rap Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 I think the concern social media sites have today is that something much broader and very devious is going on, which has the scary potential impact of affecting democracy itself. That's what makes it stand apart from other things. The other horrible things (which of course I'm totally against and wish there was some way of completely eliminating them) will lure in other sick and disturbed people. But the big lies and conspiracy theories are sucking in even good people trying to do the right thing... That shifts everything because that's a large swath of people who can affect outcomes that could cause society as we know it to collapse. But I think it's about protecting those people too, because they deserve the truth, not lies. Just today, the NYT had an article about top legislators of a certain party who were ready to call a certain former president to resign after January 6, but after re-thinking how it would affect their power, decided to hold back and let things play out and pretend to support the lies. So it's also about protecting people against power plays that pretend to help them but in the end will actually hurt them. The people who are actually helped are a minority who are already in power because of money or status. I'm not saying what the boundaries of freedom of speech should be. I honestly do not know. Maybe Elon Musk would take over and eventually it would be taken over with so much hate-filled speech that only haters would stay on. Or maybe people would simply stay in the circles of what they want to hear and things would pretty much continue as they are. I'm not saying Elon Musk is all bad either. I actually haven't followed him at all so know very little about him. Obviously he's put some of his money into some helpful technology. But he does seem to have a side that's questionable and a little concerning and so I keep him and people like him at a distance. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/04/21/musks_gambit_and_the_future_of_morality_147501.html This sounds like a great idea to me to allow for free speech on Twitter. Were Musk to eliminate Twitter’s censorship, he would thus benefit small shareholders and those of us who adhere to traditional liberalism – to the detriment of the cause of ethical wokeism. The ripple effects of such a move, however, could prove to be even more profound. Were any major social network to reopen itself to free speech, it would create demand for a new, competitive filtering industry that would provide the “protection” that today’s major social media companies insist is indispensable. Individual users could then subscribe to one or more filters – or none at all. Competition would lead to filtering that is superior in quality and better targeted to individual taste than the current monopolistic, paternalistic approaches the social networks impose upon their users. Competitive filtering would thus be great for consumers. Its impact, however, would run far deeper. It would undermine the entire basis for CDA 230 – the exemption that lets social media companies apply editorial discretion to determine what their users see while remaining exempt from editorial liability. The basic argument behind that exemption – plausible when written in 1996 – is that the only alternative is a free-for-all publishing of graphic pornography for children (hence its inclusion in the Communications Decency Act). Without such an exemption, the folks running social networks might have to take responsibility for their actions and decisions – including the decision to label perspectives they dislike as “misinformation.” A genuinely free-speech Twitter would thus motivate competitive filtering and erode the liability exemption that has helped elevate a handful of tech companies into the controllers of American speech. A Musk-led, free-speech Twitter would restore the true freedom of speech that has served America so well since its founding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 Competitive filtering would be great. I would love love love to be able to apply my own filters, and I'd apply them. Personally, my main problem is filth. There are also some people on facebook that I don't want to ignore but I'd like to do what Facebook does with the shadow-banning. Trouble is, they don't shadow-ban the right people. With twitter it would also be nice to have a setting to not see comments. Oooh, I just had a dreamy idea that I don't think is possible, filter out the bots. I've heard that a good percentage of twitter is bots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idalou Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) NM Not worth it Edited April 22, 2022 by Idalou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, Idalou said: Again, it delves into legal vs ethical. Do you want more regulations and rules on these social media sites or less? I'd like complete control over it. I don't care if they share their shadow algorithm. Although, even having control over other filters would probably take care of it for me. For example, there are some people that I really don't want to hear about their opinions on politics or religion, but I would love to hear absolutely everything about their kids or goats. Remember the good old days when people didn't discuss politics or religion? There was a reason for that social rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 People already filter on Twitter. Lists, blocks, mute, controlling who can reply etc. Idk. I've never understood free speech to involve threats of violence, and that's my main problem with the site, that and the completely disproportionate way some groups are modded. The problems are with opaque, and inconsistent moderation, imo. That's where the free speech impacts are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 My main objection to twitter is that it's complicated for me to follow threads because of the way comments are inserted. It just feels clunky. I'm also constantly mind blown that the social media that is far and away used for academics is the one with the character count. I get that it's because of the filtering allowed with hash tags, but it constantly blows my mind. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 It’s funny. When I think of optional content filters I just imagine our information bubbles that are creating societal divide getting thicker, harder to penetrate. I do try to keep some voices in my feed that I disagree with so I at least know what’s being said across the aisle even if it makes me mad sometimes. I appreciate the decision to use content warnings rather than banning stuff outright, for example a lot of official Chinese gov approved media outlets have a notice to let you know that they are state-owned media. That’s helpful when trying to sort out biases etc. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 I look at it as there are three options. Self-managed filters No filters at all Filter imposed by The Powers That Be (which as has been admitted is interns at Facebook) I put those in my preferred order. The problem with the no filters is a bunch of trolls would spew hate that they sanctimoniously believe the Other believes in. Then they will get confirmation from the other trolls that hateful people are everywhere. The people that I'd want to block their politics or religion aren't contributing to the Conversation. They are just foaming at the mouth. Of course, I want them to say whatever they want. I just don't have to listen to it. I used to have a friend and we aren't any more because of social media. Not super-close but we were invited to each other's weddings and various parties over the years, and I've known her for many years. We are both involved in an annual several-day-long event where we'd hang out and catch up. Then she started foaming at the mouth on social media. The end came when she said she wanted to kill the president and would given the chance. I confronted her and said it had to be an hyperbole. She said No she was 100% serious. This is the same person that when I mentioned I probably wouldn't shake the hand of the current president, she figuratively clutched her pearls and declared that the worse thing ever. The hand-shaking comment was because an English friend of ours had said that he accidentally ran into Prince Charles at a hotel elevator and got to shake his hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said: It’s funny. When I think of optional content filters I just imagine our information bubbles that are creating societal divide getting thicker, harder to penetrate. I do try to keep some voices in my feed that I disagree with so I at least know what’s being said across the aisle even if it makes me mad sometimes. I appreciate the decision to use content warnings rather than banning stuff outright, for example a lot of official Chinese gov approved media outlets have a notice to let you know that they are state-owned media. That’s helpful when trying to sort out biases etc. Because I'm all over the place politically ( not really, but in terms of some cultural topics) I get exposed to all sorts of voices, left, right and centre. Everyone's got great big blind spots on Twitter; it's crazy. One of those blind spots is seeing our own preferred news sources as neutral, but less preferred sources as ideological. I mean, the place is a sociologist's dream. Sometimes I think it's like being a peasant but watching the nobles at court. Perhaps Twitter could do with a Fool. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Did you'll see the latest Musk "If our twitter bid succeeds, we will defeat the spam bots or die trying!" Just eliminating the non-humans from social media would be a *huge* step forward. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Wow it was quick- Musk and the board have reached an agreement to buy Twitter for $44 billion https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/25/business/elon-musk-twitter 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 I guess I will wait around and see how much stuff changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) This is interesting. Mathematics whiz and Thiel Capital exec Eric Weinstein cheered while pointing out, “I’m excited to see what happens next. Here’s to the future! But one request for @elonmusk: can you use Twitter Logs to show us how our communications were manipulated? Who was shaddowbanned or targeted by bots? How algorithms limited our reach? Why we were throttled?” I just added Twitter again. Maybe I'll last longer than a week this time. My hope is that even though it is still the same people running things, the evil ones will have their heads down. Or they could go completely bonkers and try to burn the place down. Edited April 26, 2022 by shawthorne44 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Blue Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 On 4/20/2022 at 3:06 PM, shawthorne44 said: Authoritarianism, while loudly claiming to be the true patriots and defenders of freedom and democracy, is what many now desire and support. Oh, this. SO much this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 2 hours ago, shawthorne44 said: Mathematics whiz and Thiel Capital exec Eric Weinstein cheered while pointing out, “I’m excited to see what happens next. Here’s to the future! But one request for @elonmusk: can you use Twitter Logs to show us how our communications were manipulated? Who was shaddowbanned or targeted by bots? How algorithms limited our reach? Why we were throttled?” 100% hope this happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 The bot-boiling imperils the Art of the Deal From linked AP: Quote ...Musk tweeted early Friday that he wanted to pinpoint the number of spam and fake accounts on the social media platform. He has been vocal about his desire to clean up Twitter’s problem with “spam bots” that mimic real people, and he appeared to question whether Twitter was underreporting them. But the company has disclosed in regulatory filings that its bot estimates might be low for at least two years, leading some analysts to believe that Musk could be raising the issue as a reason to back out of the purchase... ..The problem of fake accounts on Twitter is not a secret. In its quarterly filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Twitter itself expressed doubts that its count of bot accounts was correct, conceding that the estimate may be low. “In making this determination, we applied significant judgment, so our estimation of false or spam accounts may not accurately represent the actual number of such accounts, and the actual number of false or spam accounts could be higher than we have estimated,” the filing says. A review of Twitter filings with the SEC shows that the company’s estimate of spam bot accounts and similar language expressing uncertainty about it have been in Twitter’s quarterly and annual reports for at least two years, well before Musk made his offer. Some analysts are reading Musk's apparently cold feet as, he planned to use Tesla shares (rather than cash) to close and the bumps along the bot-boiling dispute have, in net terms, moved against him. Quote Stock in both Twitter and Tesla swung sharply in opposite directions Friday afternoon [in response to Musk's announcement re cold feet], with Twitter’s stock falling nearly 9% and shares of Tesla, which Musk had proposed using to help fund the Twitter deal, rising about 8%. But shares of Tesla, which Musk has been selling to fund some of the acquisition of Twitter, have tumbled since it was revealed the social platform had become a Musk target. Tesla shares have lost a quarter of their value in the last month, and have fallen from about $1,150 in early April when Musk confirmed he had taken a huge stake in Twitter, to $785.25 Friday. “It’s become much more expensive for him to buy this company using his Tesla shares,” Silver said... Ironically ... Quote ..Tesla shares may have benefitted from Twitter bot accounts over the years as well. A University of Maryland researcher recently concluded that such bots have been used to generate hundreds of thousands of positive tweets about Tesla, potentially buoying its stock in years when it was under pressure. Neither Tesla nor its supporters have taken responsibility for those bots. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Surprising no one… https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/elon-musk-notifies-twitter-he-is-terminating-deal.html 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 40 minutes ago, Joker2 said: Surprising no one… https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/elon-musk-notifies-twitter-he-is-terminating-deal.html I don’t understand why Twitter is going to sue him for walking away or try to force him to accept the deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy2BaMom Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Joker2 said: Surprising no one… https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/elon-musk-notifies-twitter-he-is-terminating-deal.html Except those who thought he was some sort of white knight. 41 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: I don’t understand why Twitter is going to sue him for walking away or try to force him to accept the deal? This is a good summary. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Here is another good summary (from Fortune): https://fortune.com/2022/05/18/elon-musk-twitter-deal-second-thoughts-termination-fee-spam/ Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 On the plus side, last week twitter wannabe upstart company Truth Social was subpoena'd under a federal investigation for investor fraud through the "blank check" SPAC structure through which it was funded by undisclosed sources; and yesterday according to a filing with Florida corporate oversight authorities the company disclosed that a number of original Truth Social directors, including the former POTUS, a long-serving intelligence aide of the former POTUS, a long-serving legal advisor to the former POTUS most recently in DHS, and the eldest son of the former POTUS, all stepped down from Truth Social's Board of Directors as of June 8, which as it happens was just a few weeks before the fraud investigation subpoena was served. As best can be ascertained from the Florida filing, the sole remaining member of the Truth Social Board of Directors is its chairman, former US Representative Devin Nunes, who gave up his seat to take the chairmanship. And who may very well be willing, under the circumstances, to sell the Twitter-ish company at a considerable discount. If Elmo wants it. 3 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 The Fortune article leaves out the disclosure requirement if Twitter sues. Disclosure has been a central issue up to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idalou Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Wheres @Fritz when you need her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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