Ukraine

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I hope you feel better soon. I am grateful DH is no longer forward deployed. He's not. **I am still concerned for our friends.**

On Tuesday, my dd2 drove me to my rheumatologist in Nashville and we were discussing this and she was talking about how where I live is a target.  I was telling her how she knew I collected books and loved (and still love) to read.  How in one of those books, there were concentric circles from the White House or maybe Congress and I could see I was in the very nearby zone (I was living in Arlington).  The world is changing very rapidly and I am so sad and angry.

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

On Tuesday, my dd2 drove me to my rheumatologist in Nashville and we were discussing this and she was talking about how where I live is a target.  I was telling her how she knew I collected books and loved (and still love) to read.  How in one of those books, there were concentric circles from the White House or maybe Congress and I could see I was in the very nearby zone (I was living in Arlington).  The world is changing very rapidly and I am so sad and angry.

Who'd have thought that the target zone would have come under attack from our own people? Directed from inside the concentric circles.

There is good cause to be sad and angry. Authoritarianism is on the march.

Bill

 

 

[Ting Tang]

US Cyber Attack Threat from Russia 

[prairiewindmomma]

19 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

US Cyber Attack Threat from Russia 

Source, please? 

[mommyoffive]

8 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Source, please? 

US braces for Russian cyberattacks as Ukraine conflict escalates. Here's how that might play out - CNN

[Roadrunner]

BBC has good coverage.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795

I hope we lock Russia out of international banking system completely 

[Acadie]

10 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

There’s a narrative circulating that this situation was caused by everything other than the insecurity and ideology of Putin. That’s it; that’s all. No one else wanted or caused this. Appeasing him, like Chamberlain (and the last admins) was a delay, not a solution. His zealous opposition to having a powerful, NATO-allied neighbor is what caused this. Full stop. Nevermind that Ukraine isn't in NATO, he saw a threat and acted on it.

Agreeing and I'd go further and say Putin feels existentially threatened by a thriving democracy in Ukraine, when internal conditions in Russia under his rule really aren't great. I keep seeing "NATO expansion" used as a talking point to justify the invasion, when it's simpler than that--Putin cannot abide sovereign and functioning democracies in former Soviet republics as his power wanes.

That's not to say he's not going to cause endless destruction on his way out, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is how his regime ends. His power depends on the collusion of the oligarchs who keep most of their fortunes and families in the West, while sucking Russia dry. If the US and Europe unite in sanctioning them I don't see the oligarchs tolerating long term expulsion from Western markets, higher education, real estate, travel etc. 

[Sneezyone]

21 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Agreeing and I'd go further and say Putin feels existentially threatened by a thriving democracy in Ukraine, when internal conditions in Russia under his rule really aren't great. I keep seeing "NATO expansion" used as a talking point to justify the invasion, when it's simpler than that--Putin cannot abide sovereign and functioning democracies in former Soviet republics as his power wanes.

That's not to say he's not going to cause endless destruction on his way out, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is how his regime ends. His power depends on the collusion of the oligarchs who keep most of their fortunes and families in the West, while sucking Russia dry. If the US and Europe unite in sanctioning them I don't see the oligarchs tolerating long term expulsion from Western markets, higher education, real estate, travel etc. 

Not just the kleptocrats but their kids too who are living their best lives in the west.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I’m busy unfriending people.

this is a literal copy of something someone wrote on one of my statuses about Ukraine:

”Everything the news says is a lie. They’re making this sound bad because so many politicians make their wealth from Ukraine. Putin isn’t a bad guy. He’s going in a taking out the corrupt deep state. It’s good this is happening. There’s nothing to fear.”

What the everlasting €%]#.  Putin is not now, has never been, and never will be a good guy. He’s a dictator who’s existence is threatened by thriving democracies.  As someone with Eastern European ancestry and second cousins still in the Czech Republic and Ukraine, I’m horrified by the absolute idiocy of people I know.

My BIL is retiring from the military in July; he’s in cyber security/intelligence. He just got notified he may not be able to retire. He expects we’re going to war.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Sneezyone]

7 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

 

Hey, it is completely caused by Putin since it is his decision.  He is bent on getting back the former parts of the Soviet Union.  And China is bent on getting back Taiwan;  

China, FTR, is not led by mad men. It is NOT a democracy and has many issues, especially with Hong Kong and Taiwan and Uyghurs, but the leaders are not insane. *THIS* move is insane. They cracked down on major speculative/investment sectors of their economy last year to emphasize gov't power but are already, slowly, letting up. They're hurting b/c PANDEMIC. Being subject to the same international ostracism that Russia is about to experience isn't what they want/need. They have zero desire to draw more attention to their actions let alone encourage a foreign country to 'recognize' the independence of Taiwan and invade/occupy that territory to 'protect' it while launching missiles onto the mainland. When you sub China for Russia in that example, it's even more clear how unstable Putin is.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Sneezyone

[mommyoffive]

Ukraine airspace closed to civilian flights after Russia attacks (thepointsguy.com)

[prairiewindmomma]

Civilian casualty reports are starting to come out from this morning’s missile attacks. 
 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-orders-military-operations-ukraine-demands-kyiv-forces-surrender-2022-02-24/

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Civilian casualty reports are starting to come out from this morning’s missile attacks. 
 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-orders-military-operations-ukraine-demands-kyiv-forces-surrender-2022-02-24/

This is so awful. DS missed the bus today so we listened to NPR on the way to school. They're studying the 1930s now.

[chiguirre]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

China, FTR, is not led by mad men. It is NOT a democracy and has many issues, especially with Hong Kong and Taiwan and Uyghurs, but the leaders are not insane. *THIS* move is insane. They cracked down on major speculative/investment sectors of their economy last year to emphasize gov't power but are already, slowly, letting up. They're hurting b/c PANDEMIC. Being subject to the same international ostracism that Russia is about to experience isn't what they want/need. They have zero desire to draw more attention to their actions let alone encourage a foreign country to 'recognize' the independence of Taiwan and invade/occupy that territory to 'protect' it while launching missiles onto the mainland. When you sub China for Russia in that example, it's even more clear how unstable Putin is.

Boy do I hope you're right about China. All I can think about is that the calculus of aggression changed for Japan when the USA's attention was focused on Europe. They may think they have a better shot at Taiwan if we're dealing with a European crisis. 

(Dd has soft orders to the Western Pacific so I sincerely hope you're right.) 

[Navymom]

Quote

18 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

My BIL is retiring from the military in July; he’s in cyber security/intelligence. He just got notified he may not be able to retire. He expects we’re going to war.

 

My son is/was scheduled to retire in August, after 20+ years. It may not happen now.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, chiguirre said:

Boy do I hope you're right about China. All I can think about is that the calculus of aggression changed for Japan when the USA's attention was focused on Europe. They may think they have a better shot at Taiwan if we're dealing with a European crisis. 

(Dd has soft orders to the Western Pacific so I sincerely hope you're right.) 

Me too. I do believe, however, the people around current POTUS are smart enough to forestall that kind of move.

[prairiewindmomma]

One point we’ve been discussing this morning is the outright lying that is happening. In textbooks they call it “disinformation” or “propaganda” or “rhetoric” but some things really are verifiably false, ie—lies. 

There is no Ukrainian genocide of Russian speakers happening in Ukraine. The Zelensky government is not neo-Nazi. (Zelensky himself is half-Jewish, and his grandfather fought the Nazis.) Ukraine has not been developing nuclear weapons; they gave them up some years ago. This is not a peacekeeping mission.
 

We are talking about this in part because people all over the world seem to value what they believe more than what is true and there is no trust in some of the media. 
 

I sadly think Ukraine will fall, and then the question is—what will happen in the next ten years? Land bridge to Kaliningrad? It’s not ok to just go about seizing land. 

[Ting Tang]

31 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

China, FTR, is not led by mad men. It is NOT a democracy and has many issues, especially with Hong Kong and Taiwan and Uyghurs, but the leaders are not insane. *THIS* move is insane. They cracked down on major speculative/investment sectors of their economy last year to emphasize gov't power but are already, slowly, letting up. They're hurting b/c PANDEMIC. Being subject to the same international ostracism that Russia is about to experience isn't what they want/need. They have zero desire to draw more attention to their actions let alone encourage a foreign country to 'recognize' the independence of Taiwan and invade/occupy that territory to 'protect' it while launching missiles onto the mainland. When you sub China for Russia in that example, it's even more clear how unstable Putin is.

China is a big violator of human rights, though. I read a website that shared how prisoners are tortured. I’m not a fan. 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Ting Tang said:

China is a big violator of human rights, though. I read a website that shared how prisoners are tortured. I’m not a fan. 

ITA. It's still led by people with fewer personal 'hangups' (for lack of a better word) than Putin. Putin is not shrewd. He's not a genius. He's a dangerous, malignant narcissist.

[prairiewindmomma]

Fighting at Chernobyl

Detention of war protestors in Russia

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/2/23/ukraine-declares-state-of-emergency-amid-fears-of-invasion-liveblog

 

 

[Ting Tang]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

ITA. It's still led by people with fewer personal 'hangups' (for lack of a better word) than Putin. Putin is not shrewd. He's not a genius. He's a dangerous, malignant narcissist.

I just wonder what will happen next. I agree Putin is a mad man. It’s pretty scary to read that people think we are going to war for that reason. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Ting Tang said:

I just wonder what will happen next. I agree Putin is a mad man. It’s pretty scary to read that people think we are going to war for that reason. 

I really hope *we're* not. Only time will tell but Ukraine is *already* at war and Putin's madness is the reason why.

[Roadrunner]

Russia threatened nukes.

Russian parliament speaker in Cuba now. I bet they are showing us that if we retaliate, they can place nukes in Cuba. This is my speculation, but what on earth is the guy doing in Cuba?

 

Putin is no madman. He has gotten away doing what he is doing now on a smaller scale. He has gotten away with bombing his own people to justify Chechnya war, then Georgia, then Ukraine 2014. He will keep on marching until somebody puts a bullet in his head. 
We never learned. It was inconvenient for us to learn, because you know, gas prices, economy. So Obama sent Clinton to push reset buttons right after they invaded Georgia, also using the same scenario. I would like to think we didn’t know any better, but I am not that stupid. 
 

I just don’t know how this ends.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Roadrunner

[chiguirre]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Russia threatened nukes.

Russian parliament speaker in Cuba now. I bet they are showing us that if we retaliate, they can place nukes in Cuba. This is my speculation, but what on earth is the guy doing in Cuba?

It's not 1962. The Russians don't need to put nukes in Cuba to obliterate us in less than an hour. They can do that with ICBMs and submarine launched missiles.

We can, of course, do the same to them. 

Mutually Assured Destruction has managed to keep the peace for decades, but it requires leaders that do not want to see the world burn. A narcissist who is getting older and is willing to roll the dice to see if he can reconstruct the Soviet empire and doesn't much care if it kills off mankind is a new kind of threat. I wonder if any in his inner circle are starting to worry about their children's and grandchildren's lives enough to take action? We can only hope that some Russians have read their Roman history and are willing to be the Praetorian Guard.

[Ting Tang]

5 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

It's not 1962. The Russians don't need to put nukes in Cuba to obliterate us in less than an hour. They can do that with ICBMs and submarine launched missiles.

We can, of course, do the same to them. 

Mutually Assured Destruction has managed to keep the peace for decades, but it requires leaders that do not want to see the world burn. A narcissist who is getting older and is willing to roll the dice to see if he can reconstruct the Soviet empire and doesn't much care if it kills off mankind is a new kind of threat. I wonder if any in his inner circle are starting to worry about their children's and grandchildren's lives enough to take action? We can only hope that some Russians have read their Roman history and are willing to be the Praetorian Guard.

Hopefully the US is one step ahead, always. Needless to say, homeschool is going badly today for us. 

[Roadrunner]

51 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

It's not 1962. The Russians don't need to put nukes in Cuba to obliterate us in less than an hour. They can do that with ICBMs and submarine launched missiles.

We can, of course, do the same to them. 

Mutually Assured Destruction has managed to keep the peace for decades, but it requires leaders that do not want to see the world burn. A narcissist who is getting older and is willing to roll the dice to see if he can reconstruct the Soviet empire and doesn't much care if it kills off mankind is a new kind of threat. I wonder if any in his inner circle are starting to worry about their children's and grandchildren's lives enough to take action? We can only hope that some Russians have read their Roman history and are willing to be the Praetorian Guard.

That’s right. If anybody is capable of using them, it’s him. And if you think he doesn’t want permanent bases with nukes in Cuba, think again. He thinks it’s his right given NATO troops in Europe. 

 

Ordinary Russians can’t do anything. You have seen how protests start and end there. They silence everybody. [Sentence deleted by moderator. If you want to talk like this, take it to the politics board.]

All his money is hidden abroad. One hopes we know where it’s at and we freeze everything for everybody (all these oligarchs and state enterprises….) take away their foreign processions, lock them out of international banking. Putting a handful of people on sanctions doesn’t help. We need all his associations and their holdings cut off. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Rosie_0801
Inappropriate remark

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Ting Tang said:

Hopefully the US is one step ahead, always. Needless to say, homeschool is going badly today for us. 

If we're having these conversations, I can guarantee (these days) they've already been had elsewhere. 

[Ting Tang]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

If we're having these conversations, I can guarantee (these days) they've already been had elsewhere. 

Absolutely. Now, I would not want to be in our leaders’ positions, dealing with this guy.  Ugh, just when I thought maybe life could get back to some normalcy with the pandemic, now we have a new crisis. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’m busy unfriending people.

this is a literal copy of something someone wrote on one of my statuses about Ukraine:

”Everything the news says is a lie.

I don't know for sure if those I've unfriended over the last two years are off the deep end or not (some close to the deep end are supportive of Ukraine, but I bet this falls along age-lines). One FB homeschool page already has people recommending unreliable news sources, individual unreliable conspiracy mongers, and shunning media bias charts. It's a group to talk about blue collar options for our kids who are not college-bound, so it's totally irrelevant. 

[chiguirre]

10 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Hopefully the US is one step ahead, always. Needless to say, homeschool is going badly today for us. 

I think today is history day. Turn on CNN and watch it being made!

I'm not being snarky, there are some days where the advantage of homeschooling is that you can put away your regular stuff and concentrate on a major world history event in progress.

I did this for Obama's first inauguration. Amazingly, my then 5 yo still remembers it which makes my homeschool mommy heart happy. 

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

I think today is history day. Turn on CNN and watch it being made!

I'm not being snarky, there are some days where the advantage of homeschooling is that you can put away your regular stuff and concentrate on a major world history event in progress.

I did this for Obama's first inauguration. Amazingly, my then 5 yo still remembers it which makes my homeschool mommy heart happy. 

Absolutely. DS missed the bus today so we listened real time and will continue to have good convos after school and at dinner tonight. This is big stuff.

[Sneezyone]

35 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

It's not 1962. The Russians don't need to put nukes in Cuba to obliterate us in less than an hour. They can do that with ICBMs and submarine launched missiles.

We can, of course, do the same to them. 

Mutually Assured Destruction has managed to keep the peace for decades, but it requires leaders that do not want to see the world burn. A narcissist who is getting older and is willing to roll the dice to see if he can reconstruct the Soviet empire and doesn't much care if it kills off mankind is a new kind of threat. I wonder if any in his inner circle are starting to worry about their children's and grandchildren's lives enough to take action? We can only hope that some Russians have read their Roman history and are willing to be the Praetorian Guard.

Exactly. Our cyber folks are on high alert b/c that's a major front for this, new, war. 

[bolt.]

It's interesting to me that Canadians like me seem to be experiencing this as a foreign crisis, with great sympathy for Ukrainians who are being subject to invasion by a foreign power. I immediately began thinking about the UN and international sanctions.

Whereas Americans seem to be experiencing this as somehow closer to home? Thinking about Cuba, and Washington and ICBMs? Is this possibly a remnant of Cold War mentality?

Could some of you speculate with me as-to why you might be experiencing this as 'an event in American history' when I'm experiencing it as 'an event in European history'? Possibly a media-based slant? I'm always fascinated by the differences -- and these posts on this thread are somehow not what I expected. Thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2022 by bolt.

[Ting Tang]

27 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

I think today is history day. Turn on CNN and watch it being made!

I'm not being snarky, there are some days where the advantage of homeschooling is that you can put away your regular stuff and concentrate on a major world history event in progress.

I did this for Obama's first inauguration. Amazingly, my then 5 yo still remembers it which makes my homeschool mommy heart happy. 

Yes, we’ve had coverage on all day. I don’t want to scare them, though. 😔 I remember feeling scared during the Gulf War. I am old, lol. But you are right. I think we might just have to stop. Two kids did math. That’s my sticker do it subject lol. We did watch the inauguration last year. Wish it was something happier today. 

[Roadrunner]

So with Russia and China as UN Security Council members, when are we going to start talking about the farce of this organization? And how one can really reform it to be of real use? 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Roadrunner

[Faith-manor]

43 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

It's not 1962. The Russians don't need to put nukes in Cuba to obliterate us in less than an hour. They can do that with ICBMs and submarine launched missiles.

We can, of course, do the same to them. 

Mutually Assured Destruction has managed to keep the peace for decades, but it requires leaders that do not want to see the world burn. A narcissist who is getting older and is willing to roll the dice to see if he can reconstruct the Soviet empire and doesn't much care if it kills off mankind is a new kind of threat. I wonder if any in his inner circle are starting to worry about their children's and grandchildren's lives enough to take action? We can only hope that some Russians have read their Roman history and are willing to be the Praetorian Guard.

Yes, this might be the best method of getting rid of Caligula.

I was just reading a BBC article about how outmanned, outgunned, out tech, out everything Ukraine is compared to Russia, and I just do not see how sanctions, seizing assets, etc. is going to work and especially in terms of saving human lives. I really think NATO is going to have to commit ground troops, air and naval support beyond just mere "support", everything. I don't see any other way unless someone does take out Putin. Otherwise, I think we may be witnessing the start of WWIII. 

My heart is broken for the people of Ukraine, and her neighbors.

 

[Grace Hopper]

7 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It's interesting to me that Canadians like me seem to be experiencing this as a foreign crisis, with great sympathy for Ukrainians who are being subject to invasion by a foreign power. I immediately began thinking about the UN and international sanctions.

Whereas Americans seem to be experiencing this as somehow closer to home? Thinking about Cuba, and Washington and ICBMs? Is this possibly a remnant of Cold War mentality?

Could some of you speculate with me as-to why you might be experiencing this as 'an event in American history' when I'm experiencing it as 'an event in European history'? Possibly a media-based slant? I'm always fascinated by the differences -- and these posts on this thread are somehow not what I expected. Thoughts?

I think your speculations (like Cold War era memories) are apt. I’ll just add that for me, it’s also because we have a former president who hero-worships Putin and has an incomprehensible amount of influence over his followers. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It's interesting to me that Canadians like me seem to be experiencing this as a foreign crisis, with great sympathy for Ukrainians who are being subject to invasion by a foreign power. I immediately began thinking about the UN and international sanctions.

Whereas Americans seem to be experiencing this as somehow closer to home? Thinking about Cuba, and Washington and ICBMs? Is this possibly a remnant of Cold War mentality?

Could some of you speculate with me as-to why you might be experiencing this as 'an event in American history' when I'm experiencing it as 'an event in European history'? Possibly a media-based slant? I'm always fascinated by the differences -- and these posts on this thread are somehow not what I expected. Thoughts?

Well, I think one reason is we are just climbing out of four years of intense crazy with a Pro-Putin, Pro-Erdagon, Pro-totalitarianism leader, and well, our people are profoundly influenced by misinformation.

We form the military bedrock of NATO. Yes, y'all commit your troops and fire power to defend each other, but huge reliance on US money, tech, troops, your basic superpower stuff, means that if Europe has a problem, we have a problem, a very big problem.

And Putin sees us as the enemy in a way that he doesn't see Mexico or Canada. So we don't really escape his notice, and he has hinted more than once that he is crazy enough to declare war on us. Therefore, this aggression on the Ukraine hits us in the gut.

[Sneezyone]

44 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It's interesting to me that Canadians like me seem to be experiencing this as a foreign crisis, with great sympathy for Ukrainians who are being subject to invasion by a foreign power. I immediately began thinking about the UN and international sanctions.

Whereas Americans seem to be experiencing this as somehow closer to home? Thinking about Cuba, and Washington and ICBMs? Is this possibly a remnant of Cold War mentality?

Could some of you speculate with me as-to why you might be experiencing this as 'an event in American history' when I'm experiencing it as 'an event in European history'? Possibly a media-based slant? I'm always fascinated by the differences -- and these posts on this thread are somehow not what I expected. Thoughts?

It hits significantly closer to home b/c of 1/6 and its leaders' connections to Russian apologia.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Sneezyone

[chiguirre]

17 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It's interesting to me that Canadians like me seem to be experiencing this as a foreign crisis, with great sympathy for Ukrainians who are being subject to invasion by a foreign power. I immediately began thinking about the UN and international sanctions.

Whereas Americans seem to be experiencing this as somehow closer to home? Thinking about Cuba, and Washington and ICBMs? Is this possibly a remnant of Cold War mentality?

Could some of you speculate with me as-to why you might be experiencing this as 'an event in American history' when I'm experiencing it as 'an event in European history'? Possibly a media-based slant? I'm always fascinated by the differences -- and these posts on this thread are somehow not what I expected. Thoughts?

I googled and I think it might just have been a bit of a time lag. The PM, Foreign Minister and Defense Minister are speaking right now and they seem pretty invested in facing down the Russians. They're sending more troops and imposing really stringent sanctions.

ETA: Link to speech that is currently underway:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian-military-s-limits-to-be-tested-as-fears-of-war-with-russia-mount-1.5792907

Edited February 24, 2022 by chiguirre

[Grace Hopper]

@bolt.Also, who knows what secure documents/info may have been shared with enemies, given what we’ve learned recently about the mar-a-lago stash. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

@bolt.Also, who knows what secure documents/info may have been shared with enemies, given what we’ve learned recently about the mar-a-lago stash. 

This too! I am very on edge about what was in those boxes. It make "her emails, the ongoing saga" a nothing issue comparatively. What the heck is in those boxes laying around a golf resort? 

[Lisa]

10 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

 

Hey, it is completely caused by Putin since it is his decision.  He is bent on getting back the former parts of the Soviet Union.  And China is bent on getting back Taiwan;  

Sadly, this is true. China wants more control just as Russia/Putin does.

[Kassia]

President Biden is scheduled to address the nation shortly.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/?fbclid=IwAR2PT26EvVIx0GKPg30kPL-VH4cq2rV7LDqdECJC49xchZiX563qi6X-CM8

[Faith-manor]

Also, it should be noted that Belarusian leader, Lukashenko, has threatened the West with nukes if we support Ukraine. Lukashenko is not, well, a stable mind. I'll just state it that way.

[Roadrunner]

Russians now control Chernobyl

Edited February 24, 2022 by Roadrunner

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

Russians now control Chernobyl and foreign media is reporting they have taken people who work there as hostages. I am going to see if I can find an English language source. 

Just heard it on ABC radio. 
 

@bolt.Honestly, every Western NATO member nation should be concerned, despite miles separation.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Just heard it on ABC radio. 
 

@bolt.Honestly, every Western NATO member nation should be concerned, despite miles separation.

Agreed. This has the potential to suck everyone in like a black hole.

[chiguirre]

17 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Also, it should be noted that Belarusian leader, Lukashenko, has threatened the West with nukes if we support Ukraine. Lukashenko is not, well, a stable mind. I'll just state it that way.

Fortunately, Belarus transferred all their nukes back to Russia in the same way as Ukraine. OTOH, he's clearly a sock puppet for Putin so that makes two mentions of using nukes. 

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’m busy unfriending people.

this is a literal copy of something someone wrote on one of my statuses about Ukraine:

”Everything the news says is a lie. They’re making this sound bad because so many politicians make their wealth from Ukraine. Putin isn’t a bad guy. He’s going in a taking out the corrupt deep state. It’s good this is happening. There’s nothing to fear.”

What the everlasting €%]#.  Putin is not now, has never been, and never will be a good guy. He’s a dictator who’s existence is threatened by thriving democracies.  As someone with Eastern European ancestry and second cousins still in the Czech Republic and Ukraine, I’m horrified by the absolute idiocy of people I know.

My BIL is retiring from the military in July; he’s in cyber security/intelligence. He just got notified he may not be able to retire. He expects we’re going to war.

I would be unfriending too.