CRT (now rebranded as Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion DEI) and DOJ involvement in school board meetings

[Fritz]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Censorship by the government, or a government entity (like public schools) is VERY different than consumers calling for a corporation/retail outlet to change what they sell. 

 

Good point. In the first case it is within an individual school system callling for a ban on a particular book within that system. This makes the book unavailable through the school library to the students within that school system. This is meant to keep a book deemed inappropriate for some reason out of the hands of the children within that school system. Again, anyone that would like to purchase the book may still do so.

In the second case it was calling on Amazon, one of, if not the largest book seller to stop selling the book to anyone, anywhere. This is meant to keep the book that some group has deem inappropriate out of the hands of anyone and more importantly to punish and cause financial harm to the author.

I don't advocate for either case.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Fritz

[Roadrunner]

You know, you can Google the definition of woke. 
But most of us don’t need a definition to spot one. 
 

And it’s  good to know those of us who might align with Carville’s views are now irrelevant. I guess progressives (or woke if you prefer that term) are now the only ones who can speak for a Democratic Party. Dully noted and will vote accordingly I guess. 

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Could you clarify the first bolded part? Because you are right, CRT IS about institutions, and the teaching should be about how institutions are biased, etc. If that is done, than I don't see how that equates to individual kids being told off. 

So, from what I understood from the guy on TV (who was African-American and was an expert being interviewed, from the US), CRT initially was about the way institutions can be biased in the way, racist, in the way they are set up. Which I agree with - I can see it, for example, in the way organisations are set up for men with wives to do half their jobs for them. But there's no way that level of nuance can be put across by a year 3 teacher, who is telling them to write speeches on how being racist is mean. I feel like constantly writing speeches like 'why it's bad to be racist' is both othering kids who aren't the majority culture, and also suggesting that they're already innately racist, which they buck up against. 

I would rather them learn about diverse cultures and value their diversity; be introduced to colonialism through books and stories, so it can be discussed as a 'thing' itself; and later, in high school, analyse the institutional choices that perpetuate racism. It may be possible to do it well in year 3-5 . . . but as I said, it's done as a tick the box exercise, where I've seen it. 

NB - just read a brilliant new book which talks about colonialism, that is Rick Riordan's Daughter of the Deep - for around 12 yr olds - so many interesting ideas. 

 

[SanDiegoMom]

5 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

This sounds a little bit like the people who said they wouldn't get vaccinated since it was now mandated. 

Go ahead and vote for people who want to take away your healthcare and whatever if it makes you feel like you're pushing back against "wokeness." 

 

Wow.  That's pretty rude.  And pretty much spot on for why some Democrats are starting to feel like the party has moved on to a weird place and are feeling it is less and less representative to those who might have contrasting opinions about certain issues.

Isn't the whole problem with the two party system as it is is that it polarizes us into two opposite parties when most of us have views that shift or are somewhat in the middle? 

I am a 45 year old lifelong Democrat, non religious, never voted Republican in my life. And I believe the most frustrating "woke" issues are definitely magnified in the media -- how else are they going to sell papers  I guess.  But insulting people for their beliefs isn't really helpful and that is honestly what a lot of liberal news is filled with.

 

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Wow.  That's pretty rude.  And pretty much spot on for why some Democrats are starting to feel like the party has moved on to a weird place and are feeling it is less and less representative to those who might have contrasting opinions about certain issues.

Isn't the whole problem with the two party system as it is is that it polarizes us into two opposite parties when most of us have views that shift or are somewhat in the middle? 

I am a 45 year old lifelong Democrat, non religious, never voted Republican in my life. And I believe the most frustrating "woke" issues are definitely magnified in the media -- how else are they going to sell papers  I guess.  But insulting people for their beliefs isn't really helpful and that is honestly what a lot of liberal news is filled with.

 

I think a lot of people in this position don't vote R, but sit out elections, vote third party, or spoil their ballot. I know I'd never vote further right than centre, for economic and women's health reasons, but I can see ballot spoiling on my horizon. 

A political party can't shame voters into voting for them. It doesn't work. People really need to start grappling with the pragmatics of this and do a lot less mean girl/classist sh*t. 

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

You know, you can Google the definition of woke. 
But most of us don’t need a definition to spot one. 
 

And it’s  good to know those of us who might align with Carville’s views are now irrelevant. I guess progressives (or woke if you prefer that term) are now the only ones who can speak for a Democratic Party. Dully noted and will vote accordingly I guess. 

Oh, come now, you've been on the culture warrior train for a long time. It's come up in every single thread on university admissions issues. No one said people who align with Carville are irrelevant but that they're not required to win anymore (kinda like the way conservatives treat minority groups). They're helpful but not essential.

[Sneezyone]

5 hours ago, bookbard said:

So, from what I understood from the guy on TV (who was African-American and was an expert being interviewed, from the US), CRT initially was about the way institutions can be biased in the way, racist, in the way they are set up. Which I agree with - I can see it, for example, in the way organisations are set up for men with wives to do half their jobs for them. But there's no way that level of nuance can be put across by a year 3 teacher, who is telling them to write speeches on how being racist is mean. I feel like constantly writing speeches like 'why it's bad to be racist' is both othering kids who aren't the majority culture, and also suggesting that they're already innately racist, which they buck up against. 

I would rather them learn about diverse cultures and value their diversity; be introduced to colonialism through books and stories, so it can be discussed as a 'thing' itself; and later, in high school, analyse the institutional choices that perpetuate racism. It may be possible to do it well in year 3-5 . . . but as I said, it's done as a tick the box exercise, where I've seen it. 

NB - just read a brilliant new book which talks about colonialism, that is Rick Riordan's Daughter of the Deep - for around 12 yr olds - so many interesting ideas. 

 

ITA that what you're describing sounds like an incredibly inappropriate use of class time (unless, say, the student was writing something as some sort of punitive/restorative act but even then not for 4th graders). I simply haven't ever seen that kind of assignment given to a public school class.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, bookbard said:

feel like constantly writing speeches like 'why it's bad to be racist' is both othering kids who aren't the majority culture, and also suggesting that they're already innately racist, which they buck up against. 

 

individual actions are not really CRT, from what I understand. And have been taught about for quite a while. 

That said, I don't see how writing about how racism is mean is implying they are racist, anymore than writing or talking about how bullying is mean is implying the student is innately a bully. That's the jump I'm just not getting - that talking about it implies the kid is racist. Or bad, or whatever. 

[Melissa Louise]

This is the problem.

WW worth millions shitting on other ww as 'activism'.

And this, sadly, is the attitude disseminated in batshit insane DEI trainings and what filters down into activist teaching when done unskillfully by teachers with a lot of enthusiasm and not a lot of smarts. 

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is the problem.

WW worth millions shitting on other ww as 'activism'.

And this, sadly, is the attitude disseminated in batshit insane DEI trainings and what filters down into activist teaching when done unskillfully by teachers with a lot of enthusiasm and not a lot of smarts. 

What does that have to do with CRT? I'm confused. 

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Oh, come now, you've been on the culture warrior train for a long time. It's come up in every single thread on university admissions issues. No one said people who align with Carville are irrelevant but that they're not required to win anymore (kinda like the way conservatives treat minority groups). They're helpful but not essential.

Somebody did up thread. 

And yes, I think at some point we are going to have a conflict when rights of groups clash with rights of individuals. I know which side I am on (and I have come to that side based on personal experiences) even though I do understand what CTR proponents (actual CTR not this book banning bullshit) are saying and why. I think there is going to be more damage done than good even if the intentions are good. And holding my opinion doesn’t make me backward racist. 

and as far as admissions issues go, I think we should have transparent quotas, much better than pretend game we are playing that helps those it shouldn’t and does nothing to promote those who need it most. 

[Sneezyone]

28 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Somebody did up thread. 

And yes, I think at some point we are going to have a conflict when rights of groups clash with rights of individuals. I know which side I am on (and I have come to that side based on personal experiences) even though I do understand what CTR proponents (actual CTR not this book banning bullshit) are saying and why. I think there is going to be more damage done than good even if the intentions are good. And holding my opinion doesn’t make me backward racist. 

and as far as admissions issues go, I think we should have transparent quotas, much better than pretend game we are playing that helps those it shouldn’t and does nothing to promote those who need it most. 

We've BEEN having those conflicts tho. White identity (group) politics, and not just in an ugly supremacist, nationalist way, have existed for centuries in the US. It may have been invisible to those on the winning side but it has driven some really, really bad laws in this country and continues to do so. What you see depends on where you sit.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

What does that have to do with CRT? I'm confused. 

I don't think you are. 

What parents are calling CRT is the DEI stuff coming down the pipeline. And it really is insane. 

Saying it's not CRT is true, but it also lets proponents of the diAngelo type stuff ( and worse) off the hook. 

No school should be paying hundreds of thousands to consultants for come in and run trainings in some of the downright crazy things they do.

 

[Sneezyone]

I don't know who needs to hear this but neither WW nor WM are the core of the Democratic party. If you're neither the host nor part of the volunteer core but an invited guest, it's poor form to walk in, look around, and complain that the festivities aren't to your taste. The party doesn't exist to cater to you. It exists for the benefit of its members here in the US.

Let's flip this around, shall we? If I walk into a conservative party and start complaining that it isn't doing enough to address my issues, what will happen? WHAT *HAS* HAPPENED? NOTHING. Existing members would be similarly annoyed that I didn't read the sign on the door and know why and for whom the event was held. 

As a specific example of that very thing, the junior senator from South Carolina was deputized to work on his pet issue and then rebuffed in his effort to bring ANYONE from his party to the table on LEO reform. They completely hung him out to dry. He hasn't made a peep since.

*SOME* parents are complaining about "CRT" and "DEI", not all. Those parents have an outsize voice because both parties cater to/panic over their every sniffle and snort. That outsize voice/impact/attention DRIVES DOWN participation among people who find they have NO PARTY interested in addressing their concerns despite being the most regular and loyal party attendees. That's not sustainable.

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

16 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

We've BEEN having those conflicts tho. White identity (group) politics, and not just in an ugly supremacist, nationalist way, have existed for centuries in the US. It may have been invisible to those on the winning side but it has driven some really, really bad laws in this country and continues to do so. What you see depends on where you sit.

Yes, I know there have been, and the remedy seems to be legislating outcomes based on race. CA attempted this and voters rejected. I do think CTR leads down this path if you follow it to logical conclusions. It might fix some things, but I do think the damage it will do in the longer term will be irreversible. 
There has got to be a better way. 

[Sneezyone]

15 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Yes, I know there have been, and the remedy seems to be legislating outcomes based on race. CA attempted this and voters rejected. I do think CTR leads down this path if you follow it to logical conclusions. It might fix some things, but I do think the damage it will do in the longer term will be irreversible. 
There has got to be a better way. 

Can you give me an example of legislating outcomes?

[Roadrunner]

28 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Can you give me an example of legislating outcomes?

CA attempting to bring affirmative action to hiring practices was one such attempt. I think there is a danger that’s the path we are going down here (not that we are there).  somehow being born Paraguayan  (totally using this as a silly example) might become a factor in employment outcomes.

I would rather see a Marshal plan of sorts in areas like Mississippi Delta as well as other communities where scars still run so deep. I want to fight for legislation where extra funding can be triggered for such communities for education, college scholarships, health… and income indicators might be a better way of addressing such inequities. 

[Sneezyone]

45 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

CA attempting to bring affirmative action to hiring practices was one such attempt. I think there is a danger that’s the path we are going down here (not that we are there).  somehow being born Paraguayan  (totally using this as a silly example) might become a factor in employment outcomes.

I would rather see a Marshal plan of sorts in areas like Mississippi Delta as well as other communities where scars still run so deep. I want to fight for legislation where extra funding can be triggered for such communities for education, college scholarships, health… and income indicators might be a better way of addressing such inequities. 

Oh! Are you talking about the board member diversity proposal that failed? I'm not sure how a single, failed proposal is indicative of that being used or proposed as the solution to these challenges but I did think that wasn't a great idea. It seems the majority of Californians didn't either.

I would totally support  restorative justice programs aimed at air/water quality remediation, toxic waste cleanup, etc. I don't know that income is a great proxy tho. Disparities persist regardless of income, particularly in health and healthcare but talking about why that is, is CRT so...yeah...

Edited November 9, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Frances]

47 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Can you give me an example of legislating outcomes?

Would this be an example? It was challenged in court and the challengers did  prevail. Although it just meant they also received funding, no money was taken back from anyone.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/02/states-novel-relief-fund-for-black-oregonians-provided-help-to-thousands-even-as-it-faced-legal-challenge-it-saved-my-life.html

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, Frances said:

Would this be an example? It was challenged in court and the challengers did  prevail. Although it just meant they also received funding, no money was taken back from anyone.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/02/states-novel-relief-fund-for-black-oregonians-provided-help-to-thousands-even-as-it-faced-legal-challenge-it-saved-my-life.html

Maybe? The federal government provides many forms of targeted relief and did so with the stimulus too. Small businesses located in low-income zip codes were eligible for additional funds. I think that would have been a better approach but there's a lot about the way northwest liberals operate that I don't agree with.

Aid for black farmers, for example, has been owed for decades (b/c they were systematically denied assistance under farm bureau programs) but it still hasn't been paid out so I'm unwilling to say reparations are wrong but I do think targeted economic aid by zip code or census tract is a better way to go WRT distributing aid unless direct descendants can be identified.

I don't see how that legislates outcomes tho. Aid is an input. It guarantees zero in the way of outcomes.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Sneezyone

[AnotherNewName]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

CA attempting to bring affirmative action to hiring practices was one such attempt. I think there is a danger that’s the path we are going down here (not that we are there).  somehow being born Paraguayan  (totally using this as a silly example) might become a factor in employment outcomes.

I would rather see a Marshal plan of sorts in areas like Mississippi Delta as well as other communities where scars still run so deep. I want to fight for legislation where extra funding can be triggered for such communities for education, college scholarships, health… and income indicators might be a better way of addressing such inequities. 

You may want to look at Rep. James Clyburn's 10/20/30 plan as it is similar to what you are suggesting.

10|20|30 Persistent Poverty Formula | Congressman James E. Clyburn (house.gov)

[Fritz]

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fbi-whistleblower-claims-doj-used-counterterrorism-tools-against-parents-in-response-to-school-board-memo/

Citing an internal email provided by an FBI whistleblower, Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee revealed Tuesday that the Bureau has created a system to track threats against school board officials and administrators, and accused Attorney General Merrick Garland of misleading lawmakers when he was asked about the subject during his previous testimony before the committee.

The FBI’s “Counterterrorism and Criminal Divisions created a threat tag, EDUOFFICIALS, to track instances of related threats,” according to the email. “The purpose of the threat tag is to help scope this threat on a national level and provide an opportunity for comprehensive analysis of the threat picture for effective engagement with law enforcement.”

The email was signed by Counterterrorism Division assistant director Timothy Langan, and former Criminal Division assistant director Calvin Shivers, who retired earlier this month.

The MSM has largely ignored the whistleblower story.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/abc-cbs-nbc-cnn-skip-doj-whistleblower-threat-tag

And then there's this.

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids

Incensed parents now make news almost daily, objecting to radical material taught in their children’s public schools. But little insight has been provided into the mindset and tactics of activist teachers themselves. That may now be changing, thanks to leaked audio from a meeting of California’s largest teacher’s union.

Last month, the California Teachers Association (CTA) held a conference advising teachers on best practices for subverting parents, conservative communities and school principals on issues of gender identity and sexual orientation. Speakers went so far as to tout their surveillance of students’ Google searches, internet activity, and hallway conversations in order to target sixth graders for personal invitations to LGBTQ clubs, while actively concealing these clubs’ membership rolls from participants’ parents.

 

 

 

 

[Sneezyone]

This is EXCELLENT news!!

Quote

The FBI’s “Counterterrorism and Criminal Divisions created a threat tag, EDUOFFICIALS, to track instances of related threats,” according to the email. “The purpose of the threat tag is to help scope this threat on a national level and provide an opportunity for comprehensive analysis of the threat picture for effective engagement with law enforcement.”

It means law enforcement is beginning to take seriously the existential threat posed by political extremists of all stripes. No one's life should be endangered by virtue of doing the jobs they were elected/hired to do.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids

This is fucking infuriating to read. LBGT students aren't pets to be used in teachers' activism. 

These type of clubs need to be student initiated and run, with a teacher playing a supporting role. 

If your lesbian or gay or trans students would rather lunch with their friends, fucking leave them alone!

These teachers need to hauled into further education. They are beyond ignorant and they are bringing the profession into disrepute. 

 

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids

This is fucking infuriating to read. LBGT students aren't pets to be used in teachers' activism. 

These type of clubs need to be student initiated and run, with a teacher playing a supporting role. 

If your lesbian or gay or trans students would rather lunch with their friends, fucking leave them alone!

These teachers need to hauled into further education. They are beyond ignorant and they are bringing the profession into disrepute. 

 

Oh, wait, I thought further education was a waste of public dollars? Make up your mind.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Sneezyone

[goldberry]

6 hours ago, Fritz said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fbi-whistleblower-claims-doj-used-counterterrorism-tools-against-parents-in-response-to-school-board-memo/

Citing an internal email provided by an FBI whistleblower, Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee revealed Tuesday that the Bureau has created a system to track threats against school board officials and administrators, and accused Attorney General Merrick Garland of misleading lawmakers when he was asked about the subject during his previous testimony before the committee.

The FBI’s “Counterterrorism and Criminal Divisions created a threat tag, EDUOFFICIALS, to track instances of related threats,” according to the email. “The purpose of the threat tag is to help scope this threat on a national level and provide an opportunity for comprehensive analysis of the threat picture for effective engagement with law enforcement.”

 

 

I'm not sure what's you are saying is wrong with this?  People making actual threats should be tracked.  If they are not making threats, they should not be tracked.  

[goldberry]

There was a middle school anti-bullying presentation that included basic vague descriptions of the reasons kids get bullied, including sexual orientation and parents were complaining? 

"A conference attendee told me that Baraki then directed the participants’ attention to a parent email objecting to the presentation. The parent had written that she had not intended to have a conversation with her middle schooler about sexual orientation and gender identity, but the school presentation forced her hand."

It's middle school. These topics are going to come up.  And they are already out there for kids being bullied.  Sounds like some parents missed the point of the presentation. Bullying is a huge, horrendous problem.  Far more significant than "I didn't want to talk to my middle-schooler about sexual orientation."

I'm not a fan of seeking out kids to join a club, as long as it's available for someone who wants or needs it.  I can see why a teacher would want to keep it active, so that those who need it wouldn't feel as awkward about it.  But all clubs ebb and flow, and trying to corral students into it is not the answer.

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, goldberry said:

There was a middle school anti-bullying presentation that included basic vague descriptions of the reasons kids get bullied, including sexual orientation and parents were complaining? 

"A conference attendee told me that Baraki then directed the participants’ attention to a parent email objecting to the presentation. The parent had written that she had not intended to have a conversation with her middle schooler about sexual orientation and gender identity, but the school presentation forced her hand."

It's middle school. These topics are going to come up.  And they are already out there for kids being bullied.  Sounds like some parents missed the point of the presentation. Bullying is a huge, horrendous problem.  Far more significant than "I didn't want to talk to my middle-schooler about sexual orientation."

I'm not a fan of seeking out kids to join a club, as long as it's available for someone who wants or needs it.  I can see why a teacher would want to keep it active, so that those who need it wouldn't feel as awkward about it.  But all clubs ebb and flow, and trying to corral students into it is not the answer.

ITA. In a conservative community, my approach/recommendation would be leaving breadcrumbs around to show/demonstrate that you're a safe person in the event a student *wants* to talk. Stalking students is bizarre. Teachers can err too far in many directions. That's the entire point of ongoing training.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

12 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids

This is fucking infuriating to read. LBGT students aren't pets to be used in teachers' activism. 

These type of clubs need to be student initiated and run, with a teacher playing a supporting role. 

If your lesbian or gay or trans students would rather lunch with their friends, fucking leave them alone!

These teachers need to hauled into further education. They are beyond ignorant and they are bringing the profession into disrepute. 

 

People with PHDs in education here are what I call “cult think.” I run far away from them. This news doesn’t surprise me at all. 

I have a kid in PS now and while there has been no focus on race so far (I think it’s coming next semester), his English class has been all about indoctrination into socialism. He writes papers not believing a word he says but tells me objecting to anything is futile and will cost him a grade. So we now hold dramatized readings with popcorn of his writing at home, sort of like a comedy club. 

[Eos]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

his English class has been all about indoctrination into socialism.

What does this look like?  Literature?  Writing assignments?

[Fritz]

15 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/how-activist-teachers-recruit-kids

This is fucking infuriating to read. LBGT students aren't pets to be used in teachers' activism. 

These type of clubs need to be student initiated and run, with a teacher playing a supporting role. 

If your lesbian or gay or trans students would rather lunch with their friends, fucking leave them alone!

These teachers need to hauled into further education. They are beyond ignorant and they are bringing the profession into disrepute. 

 

Agreed, except I think it is likely that this is being taught in "Education" departments across the country for implementing DEI. So I doubt there's much further education being taught or offered other than how to be more deceptive next time so as to not be found out by the parents.

[Fritz]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

People with PHDs in education here are what I call “cult think.” I run far away from them. This news doesn’t surprise me at all. 

I have a kid in PS now and while there has been no focus on race so far (I think it’s coming next semester), his English class has been all about indoctrination into socialism. He writes papers not believing a word he says but tells me objecting to anything is futile and will cost him a grade. So we now hold dramatized readings with popcorn of his writing at home, sort of like a comedy club. 

The problem is not saying anything is exactly what they are counting on. This having to play the game will continue for your child all the way through college. No one should have to pretend to believe or to endorse theories or beliefs they do not share just appease some teacher/professor to get a good grade. 

From the article:

 If you want to bring a new world into existence, it seems—a good place to start is with other people’s kids. 

[Fritz]

On 11/7/2021 at 7:33 PM, Idalou said:

 What is your definition of woke? It's not a word people really use anymore unless as an accusation. But I think you use it often.

So much this! 

Sadly, Bill hasn't woken up to the fact the DNC has left him and many others behind. I love that they continue to believe that college educated WW will continue to vote for them. I know quite a few that are now fully awake and not interested in continuing to vote for the DNC.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Eos said:

What does this look like?  Literature?  Writing assignments?

Non fiction reading and writing. His latest paper is about the virtue of collectivism (using Native Americans and Scandinavians as examples) and evils of individualism. America is being dragged and denounced as individualist evil country. 
He believes none of this, because as a child of immigrants who escaped collectivism, this paper is against every value we hold as a family. He says if he argues the opposite, he simply won’t get a grade, because this is all the class has been talking about past month. 
We just laugh about it, because what else can one do? 
It’s my childhood all over again. I can’t tell you how many papers I have written denouncing America. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Non fiction reading and writing. His latest paper is about the virtue of collectivism (using Native Americans and Scandinavians as examples) and evils of individualism. America is being dragged and denounced as individualist evil country. 
He believes none of this, because as a child of immigrants who escaped collectivism, this paper is against every value we hold as a family. He says if he argues the opposite, he simply won’t get a grade, because this is all the class has been talking about past month. 
We just laugh about it, because what else can one do? 
It’s my childhood all over again. I can’t tell you how many papers I have written denouncing America. 🤦🏻‍♀️

That’s so unnecessary. My opinions were universally contrary in high school and I learned to defend them with argument, not make assumptions about what people did/didn’t want to hear from me or would or wouldn’t accept for a grade. If you have convictions, you need to learn to advance and defend and persuade based on them. Not cower. What a horrible life lesson. I even wrote one of my college admissions essays  disagreeing with the premise of the prompt. No one batted an eyelash.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

19 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That’s so unnecessary. My opinions were universally contrary in high school and I learned to defend them with argument, not make assumptions about what people did/didn’t want to hear from me or would or wouldn’t accept for a grade. If you have convictions, you need to learn to advance and defend and persuade based on them. Not cower. What a horrible life lesson. I even wrote one of my college admissions essays  disagreeing with the premise of the prompt. No one batted an eyelash.

Well, we have spoken about this. He says every attempt  to speak up was shut down. He says kids are immature (this is 9th grade) and all follow groupthink led by a teacher. It’s not worth the trouble basically for him. We will likely pull him out next year unless something improves. They are reading actual literature next semester, so there is some hope. 

[Fritz]

16 hours ago, goldberry said:

I'm not sure what's you are saying is wrong with this?  People making actual threats should be tracked.  If they are not making threats, they should not be tracked.  

As was pointed out in the original article that started this thread, there was no evidence of any real threats.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/10/07/school-boards-dont-call-fbi/6035611001/

More recently there was this guy threatening parents at a school board meeting. Maybe the DOJ is tracking him? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10203843/Pro-CRT-parent-ex-member-black-militia-group-threatens-anti-CRT-parents.html

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Well, we have spoken about this. He says every attempt  to speak up was shut down. He says kids are immature (this is 9th grade) and all follow groupthink led by a teacher. It’s not worth the trouble basically for him. We will likely pull him out next year unless something improves. They are reading actual literature next semester, so there is some hope. 

His writing assignment isn’t about speaking up in class. The only one reading/grading is the teacher, ostensibly using a grading rubric that the students receive in advance. It still sounds like piss poor LIFE advice to me. By not sharing the fact that he has a contrary view, neither the students nor the teacher has a chance to guide the conversation in a way that makes space for that expression.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

His writing assignment isn’t about speaking up in class. The only one reading/grading is the teacher, ostensibly using a grading rubric that the students receive in advance. It still sounds like piss poor LIFE advice to me.

This sort of indoctrination shouldn’t be happening in the classroom. And the teacher shouldn’t be leading it with a drumbeat.  At least debate the ideas in the classroom and welcome alternative ones. It has been made clear in the classroom that alternatives aren’t welcome. So why would my freshman think they are welcome in writing?  It’s a shit show. 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

This sort of indoctrination shouldn’t be happening in the classroom. And the teacher shouldn’t be leading it with a drumbeat.  At least debate the ideas in the classroom and welcome alternative ones. It has been made clear in the classroom that alternatives aren’t welcome. So why would my freshman think they are welcome in writing?  It’s a shit show. 

It’s discussion that you, yourself say your son doesn’t want to engage in. Just like with biblical apologetics, are you standing on rock or sand? Have you/your son discussed these issues directly with the teacher?

Edited November 21, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It’s discussion that you, yourself say your son doesn’t want to engage in. Just like with biblical apologetics, are you standing on rock or sand? Have you/your son discussed these issues directly with the teacher?

I keep telling you. He tried to discuss in the class and got shut down by the teacher and put into his place. Why would he risk his grade on the paper? Why would he engage when it’s clear that the teacher has a worldview he is pushing? 

There is a segment of the population now (big chunk of them with PHDs in education) would are pushing a certain agenda with almost religious fervor. I see it my my kid’s English class. You don’t have to believe me. 

[Carrie12345]

41 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Non fiction reading and writing. His latest paper is about the virtue of collectivism (using Native Americans and Scandinavians as examples) and evils of individualism. America is being dragged and denounced as individualist evil country. 
He believes none of this, because as a child of immigrants who escaped collectivism, this paper is against every value we hold as a family. He says if he argues the opposite, he simply won’t get a grade, because this is all the class has been talking about past month. 
We just laugh about it, because what else can one do? 
It’s my childhood all over again. I can’t tell you how many papers I have written denouncing America. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Is there an actual prompt you could share?

Writing about collectivism vs individualism seems like a fine 11tg/12th grade assignment (not so much 9th) to me, but assigning attributes to either of those things in the prompt would be over the line for me.

10th/11th is when I began saying whatever I wanted to in my writing. I definitely wasn’t comfortable as a brand new high schooler.
 

I did have to write from an assigned perspective in one 12th grade class, but not because it was the given; the whole class was randomly assigned one of two positions. It can be a good exercise. But when used as an EXERCISE. 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I keep telling you. He tried to discuss in the class and got shut down by the teacher and put into his place. Why would he risk his grade on the paper? Why would he engage when it’s clear that the teacher has a worldview he is pushing? 

There is a segment of the population now (big chunk of them with PHDs in education) would are pushing a certain agenda with almost religious fervor. I see it my my kid’s English class. You don’t have to believe me. 

I’m not sure what you see because you’ve basically said you have done zilch to speak to the teacher or any admin at the school and haven’t sat in on a class or asked the admin to do it either. I am completely gobsmacked by this. It’s truly bizarre.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Is there an actual prompt you could share?

Writing about collectivism vs individualism seems like a fine 11tg/12th grade assignment (not so much 9th) to me, but assigning attributes to either of those things in the prompt would be over the line for me.

10th/11th is when I began saying whatever I wanted to in my writing. I definitely wasn’t comfortable as a brand new high schooler.
 

I did have to write from an assigned perspective in one 12th grade class, but not because it was the given; the whole class was randomly assigned one of two positions. It can be a good exercise. But when used as an EXERCISE. 

I could see doing it in my honors English classes even in 9th. They were intense.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

I’m not sure what you see because you’ve basically said you have done zilch to speak to the teacher or any admin at the school and haven’t sat in on a class or asked the admin to do it either. I am completely gobsmacked by this. It’s truly bizarre.

Yes, I am not going to speak to the teacher or an administrator or sit in the class. It’s not kindergarten.

Why would I humiliate my child by sitting in his 9th grade English class? You aren’t serious. 🙄
I can teach our values at home and take him out of school. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

Yes, I am not going to speak to the teacher or an administrator or sit in the class. It’s not kindergarten.

Why would I humiliate my child by sitting in his 9th grade English class? You aren’t serious. 🙄
I can teach our values at home and take him out of school. 

Yes, I am VERY serious. There are very simple, basic asks you can make to find out whether your child is accurately reporting the goings on in class. Simple things you can do to find out whether the teacher/admin is willing and able to address your concerns and you’ve done nothing. Yea, I find that bizarre. Whatever concerns I have with my children’s schools, I address them first and foremost to the school. They can’t fix something if they don’t know it’s an issue.

[BusyMom5]

My DD in college has been in the same situation,  and its frustrating!  English 2 was only current political topics- racism, poverty, gender identity, etc.  She was still living at home,  and we had a lot of discussions about each topic before deciding how to write about it for a grade.  She's in a mandatory Honors class this semester that has focused on race.  At first I thought this would be a mind-opening class.  I'll just say that it's not having the internal response that the teacher/university was hoping for.  Quite the opposite.   DD considers the class white shaming and racist.  I worry very much that classes like this are breeding more racism than they are erasing. If a teacher holds your grade over your head, it isnt too hard to write a paper you know is complete BS if it gets you the grade you want.  That's what is happening.  I have a friend whose kid is in a political science class at the CC.  They have experimented- if she answers a question from a conservative point of view, the teacher takes points off.  If she answers from a left point of view, teacher gives full points.  Its a joke- and kids can clearly see through it.  My opinion is that to really understand a position,  you should be able to argue both sides of it, regardless of the side you agree with, so write the paper to get a good grade- it doesn't have to represent your true opinion, especially when the teacher is holding power (grades) over you.  

 

 

[WildflowerMom]

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I’m not sure what you see because you’ve basically said you have done zilch to speak to the teacher or any admin at the school and haven’t sat in on a class or asked the admin to do it either. I am completely gobsmacked by this. It’s truly bizarre.

You want a parent to sit in on their child's highschool class?   That might be the strangest thing I've ever read here.   Maybe I'm misunderstanding.   

[Sneezyone]

I guess I’m just made of sterner stuff or something b/c this does not compute. I had a TA in my AA lit class downgrade my paper b/c she didn’t agree with my argument. Big whoop. I went to the prof and discussed it and my grade was boosted. This whole throw your hands up like powerless babes does not compute.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

You want a parent to sit in on their child's highschool class?   That might be the strangest thing I've ever read here.   Maybe I'm misunderstanding.   

It was ONE of many random suggestions like…do read on…have an admin do it! Taking zero steps to address a concern that you think is an existential problem is cray.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Sneezyone