Back to Dad's room and decisions (another question about vanity added)

[DawnM]

Y'all are gonna get sick of me.....but.....I don't care, I need input.

Dad can walk and step up right now, I worry that may change at some point soon.   It is getting harder and harder to take him places.   He doesn't see it and it is making me crazy, but whatever.

Shower.....do I need a 0 entry shower?   It will be about $3-$4k more as they need to tile the walls and the entire floor.   We had thought of saving that $$ and putting in a pan shower.   Or is the pan ok and if we need a wheelchair we just put a small ramp that would work there?

We will def. have a shower with a showerhead that can be moveable for a chair need.   

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by DawnM

[dsmith]

They do make accessible shower pans, so there would be no lip in the entry area, which should save money on tile.

https://www.freedomshowers.com/Accessible-Barrier-Free-Shower-Pans?gclid=Cj0KCQjwgtWDBhDZARIsADEKwgM0csHWxIqtO3z4rEAsTRv41kXJyaIKiTKtkz-kMO2_7629mx-Dk0MaAhZTEALw_wcB

Not sure of the sizes you are thinking about, but if you have a ramp going in over the lip, would there be one going down into the shower? Otherwise there will be a small drop into the pan, and trying to get out of the shower may be difficult. (Can't tell you how hard it is to get the wheelchair over the lip of our back door!!) We've been in hotel rooms with accessible showers, and I find them very slippery! Also, with low vision, color changes may be helpful. So maybe one color tile right before the shower entrance, not everything all one color, especially white. (Just what I've experienced with our neighbor.) We are in the very early stages of planning out the upstairs bathroom which currently only has an old fashioned tub. We will probably do a fully accessible open shower than can be wheeled into when we do something. Hoping her upcoming knee surgeries will buy us a few years! If you can get an occupational therapist to come in and give you some ideas, that may be helpful. We were given great suggestions after mil came home from rehab after a serious fall.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Y'all are gonna get sick of me.....but.....I don't care, I need input.

Dad can walk and step up right now, I worry that may change at some point soon.   It is getting harder and harder to take him places.   He doesn't see it and it is making me crazy, but whatever.

Shower.....do I need a 0 entry shower?   It will be about $3-$4k more as they need to tile the walls and the entire floor.   We had thought of saving that $$ and putting in a pan shower.   Or is the pan ok and if we need a wheelchair we just put a small ramp that would work there?

We will def. have a shower with a showerhead that can be moveable for a chair need.   

 

I would probably spring for the zero entry.  You can make do without it,  but man it is really nice when you need it. And it is nice when you don't need it even!  It is one of the things I miss most about our house we sold in 2019.  Dh had put in a zero entrance shower in our master.  I loved that shower.  It did not even need a shower curtain because of the angle he put in.  I don't think the angle would work for a wheel chair access, but yeah, zero entrance is super nice.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, dsmith said:

They do make accessible shower pans, so there would be no lip in the entry area, which should save money on tile.

https://www.freedomshowers.com/Accessible-Barrier-Free-Shower-Pans?gclid=Cj0KCQjwgtWDBhDZARIsADEKwgM0csHWxIqtO3z4rEAsTRv41kXJyaIKiTKtkz-kMO2_7629mx-Dk0MaAhZTEALw_wcB

Not sure of the sizes you are thinking about, but if you have a ramp going in over the lip, would there be one going down into the shower? Otherwise there will be a small drop into the pan, and trying to get out of the shower may be difficult. (Can't tell you how hard it is to get the wheelchair over the lip of our back door!!) We've been in hotel rooms with accessible showers, and I find them very slippery! Also, with low vision, color changes may be helpful. So maybe one color tile right before the shower entrance, not everything all one color, especially white. (Just what I've experienced with our neighbor.) We are in the very early stages of planning out the upstairs bathroom which currently only has an old fashioned tub. We will probably do a fully accessible open shower than can be wheeled into when we do something. Hoping her upcoming knee surgeries will buy us a few years! If you can get an occupational therapist to come in and give you some ideas, that may be helpful. We were given great suggestions after mil came home from rehab after a serious fall.

 

Thanks.   I don't think those pans will save us money though.  We were going to get a drop in shower with pan already attached for $1200 and LVP flooring. 

These would need tile flooring and glass doors.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I would probably spring for the zero entry.  You can make do without it,  but man it is really nice when you need it. And it is nice when you don't need it even!  It is one of the things I miss most about our house we sold in 2019.  Dh had put in a zero entrance shower in our master.  I loved that shower.  It did not even need a shower curtain because of the angle he put in.  I don't think the angle would work for a wheel chair access, but yeah, zero entrance is super nice.

Yeah, that wouldn't work, we would need to make the rest of the bathroom tile and have a drain in the bathroom from what the contractor said.   

My friend had one like you are describing and her mom isn't even in a wheelchair and kept loosing her balance due to the slant.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

Yeah, that wouldn't work, we would need to make the rest of the bathroom tile and have a drain in the bathroom from what the contractor said.   

My friend had one like you are describing and her mom isn't even in a wheelchair and kept loosing her balance due to the slant.

Ours was not slanted enough for anyone to lose their balance.  And the tile was rough.  It was a very small bathroom and so we just carried the tile from the shower into the rest of the  bathroom.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Ours was not slanted enough for anyone to lose their balance.  And the tile was rough.  It was a very small bathroom and so we just carried the tile from the shower into the rest of the  bathroom.

What about for a wheelchair?

[Scarlett]

Just now, DawnM said:

What about for a wheelchair?

Well, if it had been more open a wheelchair would have worked fine.  He put the angle wall in there to make it where a shower curtain or door was not needed. 

[DawnM]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Well, if it had been more open a wheelchair would have worked fine.  He put the angle wall in there to make it where a shower curtain or door was not needed. 

hmmm.....not sure what to do, let me relook at his quote and see if it specifies what he is doing.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

hmmm.....not sure what to do, let me relook at his quote and see if it specifies what he is doing.

And you said the contractor said the rest of the bathroom would have to be tiled....what did you plan on doing for the rest of the bathroom?

[DawnM]

You know, I need to talk to him because he groups things together for his quote, but I think there might only be a $2,000 difference.   

[DawnM]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

And you said the contractor said the rest of the bathroom would have to be tiled....what did you plan on doing for the rest of the bathroom?

LVP flooring.

[athena1277]

Do you e pest your dad to be able to transfer from a wheelchair to a shower chair with or without assistance?  My parents put in a shower with the pan and my dad was able to use it for a long time while suffering from Parkinson’s.  He had a lot of mobility issues from it.  By the time he couldn’t transfer, he was bed-bound and hospice helped bath him in the bed.

[DawnM]

Just now, athena1277 said:

Do you e pest your dad to be able to transfer from a wheelchair to a shower chair with or without assistance?  My parents put in a shower with the pan and my dad was able to use it for a long time while suffering from Parkinson’s.  He had a lot of mobility issues from it.  By the time he couldn’t transfer, he was bed-bound and hospice helped bath him in the bed.

I have no idea.   He currently doesn't use either one.

[Janeway]

You need to spring for zero entry shower. If you do not, whatever you pay now to redo the shower will just be for waste because you’ll have to eventually switch it over to a zero entry. If he has medical needs, maybe you can get the health insurance to cover it.

[prairiewindmomma]

Dawn, I think what you are thinking about is getting a shower wheelchair (which is a special kind of wheelchair, not the usual) and doing a roll in shower? That works, but the most common in between step is using a shower chair where they transfer from wheelchair to a plastic chair with sides. Shower benches are harder to use because of the balance issue.

If you can at all do a zero entry, I would do it. It is hard to deal with a ramp. It is hard to lift a foot a few inches up sometimes.

[Scarlett]

This is the one Dh did for my mom while she was in the hospital. He took out an existing shower tub combo. It has a 4 inch curb because he was in a time crunch, but it could have easily been made zero entry 

[prairiewindmomma]

Also, fwiw, you don’t necessarily need glass doors. In fact, they will be a PITA if he does do a wheelchair. I’d be inclined to make it a wet room with a heated floor or to do a tiled wall division.

 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Also, fwiw, you don’t necessarily need glass doors. In fact, they will be a PITA if he does do a wheelchair. I’d be inclined to make it a wet room with a heated floor or to do a tiled wall division.

 

I absolutely agree no glass doors!  Shower curtain works best, but if it is big enough you won’t need that even.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Another vote for a zero entry if this is your plan going forward as he ages.  Things will get more expensive in other ways and you don't want to add changes to the bathroom on top of that later on. 

[City Mouse]

If you can afford to make it zero entry, I would even if you don’t need it now. My parents remodel a house thinking it would work as they got older. The one thing they didn’t do was to put in a roll-in shower. It has become a big problem now because my mom cannot step over the very short lip that is there now.

[Arctic Bunny]

My mom remodeled her bathroom for my step-father and did not take any of the ADA suggestions. He said he didn’t need them, and she thought a “normal” (to her) shower with a half wall and swinging door looked better. He deteriorated quickly while it was being finished and a year later, hasn’t been able to use it. Just make everything as accessible as possible to start.

[KungFuPanda]

You can just get a kit and it'll cost less than tile and be easy to clean.  Home Depot has them for 2-3K  https://www.homedepot.com/b/Bath-Showers-Shower-Stalls-Kits/Curbless/N-5yc1vZbza7Z1z1na9b?storeSelection=

Most of them come with a seat that folds up and away if you need to roll a shower chair in there.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by KungFuPanda

[BlsdMama]

9 hours ago, DawnM said:

Y'all are gonna get sick of me.....but.....I don't care, I need input.

Dad can walk and step up right now, I worry that may change at some point soon.   It is getting harder and harder to take him places.   He doesn't see it and it is making me crazy, but whatever.

Shower.....do I need a 0 entry shower?   It will be about $3-$4k more as they need to tile the walls and the entire floor.   We had thought of saving that $$ and putting in a pan shower.   Or is the pan ok and if we need a wheelchair we just put a small ramp that would work there?

We will def. have a shower with a showerhead that can be moveable for a chair need.   

 

Dawn,

Let’s say your worst case scenario is that Dad needs help bathing and showing. Will you still keep him home?

Thats the important decision. If the answer is yes, I’ll tell you what we’ve done and are doing here:

1. Zero entry shower with enough room for a shower chair - yes a rather lot of tile.

2. Enough space around the toilet for the shower chair to go directly over the toilet.

3. Shower big enough for the chair

4. No door on shower

5. Toilevator (Toilet riser)

6. Bidet (plug in by toilet)

7. Motion sensor shampoo and conditioner dispenser 

8. Handrails in shower

9. Slide bar and second shower hand on an adjustable bar

10. Slide up/down handrails to the left and right of toilet  - these work better than fixed rails for changing needs.

11 NO decorative or floor rugs - I can’t stress this enough.

 

 

[BlsdMama]

8 hours ago, Janeway said:

 If he has medical needs, maybe you can get the health insurance to cover it.

This is a sweet thought and we’ve had folks ask, but nope. Medical insurance covers some durable medical equipment but not home renovations regardless of the ferociousness of your disease. Sigh. 

[DawnM]

9 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Dawn,

Let’s say your worst case scenario is that Dad needs help bathing and showing. Will you still keep him home?

Thats the important decision. If the answer is yes, I’ll tell you what we’ve done and are doing here:

1. Zero entry shower with enough room for a shower chair - yes a rather lot of tile.

2. Enough space around the toilet for the shower chair to go directly over the toilet.

3. Shower big enough for the chair

4. No door on shower

5. Toilevator (Toilet riser)

6. Bidet (plug in by toilet)

7. Motion sensor shampoo and conditioner dispenser 

8. Handrails in shower

9. Slide bar and second shower hand on an adjustable bar

10. Slide up/down handrails to the left and right of toilet  - these work better than fixed rails for changing needs.

11 NO decorative or floor rugs - I can’t stress this enough.

 

 

Thanks.  We are already doing most of the room with grab bars,  including next to the toilet, and we were even doing the shower with grab bars, just not with zero entry, which is why I was asking.

 

[DawnM]

8 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

This is a sweet thought and we’ve had folks ask, but nope. Medical insurance covers some durable medical equipment but not home renovations regardless of the ferociousness of your disease. Sigh. 

Yeah, we have already found that out.

 

HOWEVER, so many things, like wheelchairs, walkers, shower seats, etc....can be found 2nd hand for very cheap.

[DawnM]

Thanks guys.   I told DH last night that we better keep that line item in there.   Dad is declining IMO.   He doesn't think he is, but he is.

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

You can just get a kit and it'll cost less than tile and be easy to clean.  Home Depot has them for 2-3K  https://www.homedepot.com/b/Bath-Showers-Shower-Stalls-Kits/Curbless/N-5yc1vZbza7Z1z1na9b?storeSelection=

Most of them come with a seat that folds up and away if you need to roll a shower chair in there.

 

Yeah, we have looked at those, but then walls needs to be built around them, so it isn't as easy as "just pop this in there"  And the contractor said that will be the same cost if not more with the walls built for it to go into.

[Scarlett]

50 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Yeah, we have looked at those, but then walls needs to be built around them, so it isn't as easy as "just pop this in there"  And the contractor said that will be the same cost if not more with the walls built for it to go into.

I am wondering about the vinyl flooring in the bathroom.  Did you choose that?  Or was that the contractors suggestion?

[DawnM]

53 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am wondering about the vinyl flooring in the bathroom.  Did you choose that?  Or was that the contractors suggestion?

 

We did, but I think after last night's talk we are back to tile.

We wanted the flooring to flow from the rest of the room, but I think we will now leave the flooring in the main room as is for now and just change the bathroom.

[Scarlett]

Just now, DawnM said:

 

We did, but I think after last night's talk we are back to tile.

We wanted the flooring to flow from the rest of the room, but I think we will now leave the flooring in the main room as is for now and just change the bathroom.

Good idea. I don't know if you will use the same tile in the shower as the rest of the  bathroom.....but for the shower that tile in my mom's shower is textured.  There are about three different types of texture, which makes it great for no slip.  

[Tanaqui]

When you do a thing, better to do it right the first time. The zero entry may be more expensive, but then you won't spend however-long waiting to need it, and you won't have to redo it.

[Arctic Bunny]

13 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Dawn,

Let’s say your worst case scenario is that Dad needs help bathing and showing. Will you still keep him home?

Thats the important decision. If the answer is yes, I’ll tell you what we’ve done and are doing here:

1. Zero entry shower with enough room for a shower chair - yes a rather lot of tile.

2. Enough space around the toilet for the shower chair to go directly over the toilet.

3. Shower big enough for the chair

4. No door on shower

5. Toilevator (Toilet riser)

6. Bidet (plug in by toilet)

7. Motion sensor shampoo and conditioner dispenser 

8. Handrails in shower

9. Slide bar and second shower hand on an adjustable bar

10. Slide up/down handrails to the left and right of toilet  - these work better than fixed rails for changing needs.

11 NO decorative or floor rugs - I can’t stress this enough.

 

 

These are exactly the things I suggested to my mom and they didn’t do any except the Togo bidet toilet and bars. Also, locating the shower on/off so the person turning it on/adjusting temp doesn’t get wet.

[prairiewindmomma]

I’ll add one more bit...seal the tile grout. You don’t want it picking up odors....incontinence. It is likely to become an issue, either in timing or control. 
 

Sealing grout isn’t always standard in a bid.

[DawnM]

THANK YOU ALL.   We are going for a zero entrance shower.

Now on to the vanity......right now he can stand, but do I get one low enough for use with a wheelchair?

[prairiewindmomma]

4 minutes ago, DawnM said:

THANK YOU ALL.   We are going for a zero entrance shower.

Now on to the vanity......right now he can stand, but do I get one low enough for use with a wheelchair?

I would place it at ADA height guidelines. It is not too low to use normally, but it is more convenient for wheelchair use.

I would make it all ADA accessible—light switch height, door width, etc.

[prairiewindmomma]

https://www.burnhamnationwide.com/final-review-blog/commonly-overlooked-ada-bathroom-requirements

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I would place it at ADA height guidelines. It is not too low to use normally, but it is more convenient for wheelchair use.

I would make it all ADA accessible—light switch height, door width, etc.

Ok, I was thinking it would  be significantly lower.....thanks

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

Ok, I was thinking it would  be significantly lower.....thanks

Nah, it's almost the same . . . think table height.

[Arctic Bunny]

My mom put in a sink that extends out past the counter edge, which makes it more comfortable for her husband to sit at. At first they put a regular stool there, then his walker.

[BlsdMama]

7 hours ago, DawnM said:

THANK YOU ALL.   We are going for a zero entrance shower.

Now on to the vanity......right now he can stand, but do I get one low enough for use with a wheelchair?

It’s not significantly different. We opted to put a tall linen closet to the side and not put in a vanity at all. The sink drops into the counter and there is a wooden matching “face” to the counter to make it look more finished. If he’s ever in a power chair, it will raise and lower. If it’sa manual, likely he’ll have help. The weak and elderly don’t have super strong arms like young men who lose just the use of their legs. 

[DawnM]

9 hours ago, Arctic Bunny said:

My mom put in a sink that extends out past the counter edge, which makes it more comfortable for her husband to sit at. At first they put a regular stool there, then his walker.

we have very little room in there.   It is only a 7x7.5 bathroom.   The shower will most likely be 60x28 or so, although it will be open and flow into the rest of the room so it won't look like as much.

The largest vanity we can have is 36" but that would really take up a lot of room, we are looking at something in the 32" or smaller range.     I was thinking, it really isn't so bad, he will have a mini-kitchen right outside the bathroom with a full sink too.

Do you have any kind of a picture of what you are talking about?   I have been looking up ideas.

[Arctic Bunny]

12 hours ago, DawnM said:

we have very little room in there.   It is only a 7x7.5 bathroom.   The shower will most likely be 60x28 or so, although it will be open and flow into the rest of the room so it won't look like as much.

The largest vanity we can have is 36" but that would really take up a lot of room, we are looking at something in the 32" or smaller range.     I was thinking, it really isn't so bad, he will have a mini-kitchen right outside the bathroom with a full sink too.

Do you have any kind of a picture of what you are talking about?   I have been looking up ideas.

Kind of like this

[BlsdMama]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:35 AM, DawnM said:

Thanks.  We are already doing most of the room with grab bars,  including next to the toilet, and we were even doing the shower with grab bars, just not with zero entry, which is why I was asking.

 

One thing about grab bars next to a toilet - they can inhibit a shower chair.  We went with these:
https://www.amazon.com/Moen-R8960FD-Bathroom-Textured-Stainless/dp/B0045EKC7I/ref=asc_df_B0045EKC7I/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167124601101&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=293719619322758410&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018485&hvtargid=pla-275289706205&psc=1
Just a thought.

[BlsdMama]

We have space concerns as well so we went vertical with storage.  It's not in yet or I'd take pictures of it.  We did an upright tall cabinet and then the counter/sink rests on a three door cabinet on one side and just a leg on the other.  We didn't bother with the slant panel to cover the pipes/drain.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

We have space concerns as well so we went vertical with storage.  It's not in yet or I'd take pictures of it.  We did an upright tall cabinet and then the counter/sink rests on a three door cabinet on one side and just a leg on the other.  We didn't bother with the slant panel to cover the pipes/drain.

I love this

[DawnM]

25 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

One thing about grab bars next to a toilet - they can inhibit a shower chair.  We went with these:
https://www.amazon.com/Moen-R8960FD-Bathroom-Textured-Stainless/dp/B0045EKC7I/ref=asc_df_B0045EKC7I/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167124601101&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=293719619322758410&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018485&hvtargid=pla-275289706205&psc=1
Just a thought.

I mentioned those just today and DH said we can't do those for some reason, I need to ask again.

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

We have space concerns as well so we went vertical with storage.  It's not in yet or I'd take pictures of it.  We did an upright tall cabinet and then the counter/sink rests on a three door cabinet on one side and just a leg on the other.  We didn't bother with the slant panel to cover the pipes/drain.

We won't even have this much room.   I think the storage will need to go outside the bathroom for the most part.   although I do think we can put a small shelving unit behind the door that could hold toiletries and maybe a towel or two.

He likes to hang some of his clothes and not put them in the dryer, so I plan to get these and put them in the corner on the wall for that purpose:

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Bathroom-Organizer-Rustproof-A2102S6-2/dp/B017IF601W/ref=sr_1_7?crid=1VL7U9POP5T6S&dchild=1&keywords=swivel+towel+racks+for+bathroom+wall+mounted&qid=1618825294&sprefix=swivel+towel%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-7

 

I figure I can at least put 2 of those in.

[DawnM]

If you remember, this room has a pool table in it.  I asked about a year ago if I should get rid of it because I loved this room so much and it wasn't being used well.   

I have now SOLD the pool table.   As soon as the door is cut next week, out it goes.   I was going to give it away, but the person I was giving it to bailed on me so I listed it and will get a little $$ for it.   It was over $4k new, but we asked that it stay with the house when we bought it, so no cost really to us.  

YAY!